| So I've noticed in alot of anime shows I keep seeing the cross. Sometimes the cross is upside down. It will often appear on a character as part of their clothing, accessories or weapons. And characters in anime who are supposed to be Christian are often really big sinners (like me, unfortunately) I've become even more sensitive to this phenomenon since coming across the Witch House music genre and I also stumbled across a really disturbing satanic porn a few months ago. The porn was a really fast slideshow about 40 minutes and satanic images, symbols and text mixed in with images of anime, hentai, gay, lesbian, shemale, interracial, cuckold, orgy, masturbation and many Christian symbols (often upside down cross). Lots of blasphemy and desecration. I initially wanted to find out what all the satanic stuff meant but in the end I decided that probably just trying to find out more about it would suck me into the whole thing more like a certain magical girl anime. So I never looked at it again. Even now I feel like just watching it once has impacted me. It was after I watched it that I made an account myself and started editing and uploading HMVs and PMVs. Anyway, back to the topic. Why does anime have so much religious symbolism? Is Japan a Christian nation with Christian artists just trying to remind people that there is something pure and holy and not to give in to the lust envoked by anime? Or is it something more sinister? Are the artists actually trying to brainwash us into casting aside religion? Here is an example: Notice the earrings and the bra strings. Notice the upside down crosses. |
removed-userJan 5, 2020 5:35 PM
FlowersInTheRain said: It's just an aesthetic that people like for some reason, you're reading into this way too much.Anyway, back to the topic. Why does anime have so much religious symbolism? Is Japan a Christian nation with Christian artists just trying to remind people that there is something pure and holy and not to give in to the lust envoked by anime? Or is it something more sinister? Are the artists actually trying to brainwash us into casting aside religion? Here is an example: Notice the earrings and the bra strings. Notice the upside down crosses. For most of the people that watch anime, religion is something they couldn't care less about. What makes you think that they care about religious symbolism? It really doesn't matter. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
Railey2 said: FlowersInTheRain said: It's just an aesthetic that people like for some reason, you're reading into this way too much.Anyway, back to the topic. Why does anime have so much religious symbolism? Is Japan a Christian nation with Christian artists just trying to remind people that there is something pure and holy and not to give in to the lust envoked by anime? Or is it something more sinister? Are the artists actually trying to brainwash us into casting aside religion? Here is an example: Notice the earrings and the bra strings. Notice the upside down crosses. For most of the people that watch anime, religion is something they couldn't care less about. What makes you think that they care about religious symbolism? It really doesn't matter. You might be right but I am an INTJ so I always want to know the truth and the reason behind things (well at least the things that matter to me). In church I always hear pastors say that the devil's greatest trick is convincing the world that he doesn't exist. An example of brainwashing (non-religious): |
| I'm pretty sure it's just because crosses look cool the vast majority of the time and there's no deeper meaning. The few anime i know that have something to with Christianity are Trigun (Think the author is christian) and Angel's Egg. (The film was made after the creator lost faith in Christianity) |
FlowersInTheRain said: Well if you really want to know... I'd say it's a pretty cool trick by the church to react this way when confronted with their total lack of evidence for anything like the existence of a supernatural evil being.Railey2 said: It's just an aesthetic that people like for some reason, you're reading into this way too much. For most of the people that watch anime, religion is something they couldn't care less about. What makes you think that they care about religious symbolism? It really doesn't matter. You might be right but I am an INTJ so I always want to know the truth and the reason behind things (well at least the things that matter to me). In church I always hear pastors say that the devil's greatest trick is convincing the world that he doesn't exist The devil or vague concepts like "hell" are scare tactics that keep believers in line. If people start appealing to fear, it's a pretty clear sign that YOU are currently being brainwashed. Religions have done the same shit over and over, scaring the fuck out of their followers to keep dissent down. It's plain to see when it's other religions doing it, but when your pastor tells you a functionally identical story you don't even question it. Matter of fact, you're worse at thinking for yourself if you're scared. I mean just look at you, it's working perfectly. You're afraid of being corrupted, so you're less likely to consider alternative views. You're thinking something that the church doesn't like? That's the devil tempting you, stop thinking it! Also, the total absence of any evidence for his existence is just evidence that he's super smart and you should fear him even more! I'd say mission accomplished. Also you're right, diamonds are stupid as hell. Never in my life will I buy one. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| It's part of a lengthy indoctrination programme. A joint project by the Vatican and the Japanese deep state (your favourite animation studios). |
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FlowersInTheRain said: There aren't that many world religions to pick from, and the Christian/satanic aesthetics are already well established, easy to recognize and look kinda good. As I said before, it's much more about the aesthetic than about the meaning.@railey2 Okay but why only the Christian cross? Why not other relgious symbols? Why not logos from fashion brands and big tech companies? The cross isn't meant to be cool. It is a very specific symbol and it being put upside down means something and I didn't learn that in church. Also you can't really "pervert" the jewish faith without eyebrows going up all around, and if you try to do anything with the islamic faith you might actually be in mortal peril. So Christianity it is, I suppose. Although yin and yang sees plenty of use too. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| @FlowersInTheRain If you want to see Templar Illuminati symbols just watch the first 1;16 Fucking gates everywhere. https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p07r1cbm/the-mysterious-inverted-tower-steeped-in-templar-myth |
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FlowersInTheRain said: what else do you think it is? Some sort of devilish plot to have people stray from their faith?@railey2 As I thought. So Christianity is the easy target. I still think there is something more here than it just being cool or knowing that nothing will come of it with a few Christians being upset. Its got to be deeper. I don't see it happening with other mediums on such a scale. Not in movies or cartoons. Not even that much in video games. Why does it have to be deeper? Maybe what you're feeling is just self-importance, people actually don't care and all they're doing is using a nice aesthetic that people can easily attach meaning to? If I was a lazy writer I'd probably use christian symbolism too. Good way to pretend you're deep without having to put much thought into it. And at any rate, it looks cool, whichever way you rotate the cross |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| @FlowersInTheRain I wouldn't overthink it too much. These religions basically all trace back to Ra in some form or another. The personification of the sun. It isn't a accident I choose a personification black hole you know. >:3 |
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| Probably because christianity is such a foreign and exotic concept to them that they find the imagery cool and different, the same reason some people in the west wear/draw mandala thingies, for example, or use other mythologies in artworks. It's different. It's just an interesting aesthetic to them. Trust me, you'll know when an anime/manga draws real inspiration from judeo-christian concepts, because they won't just be aesthetic elements and imagery thrown onto a canvas. |
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| @FlowersInTheRain if you're looking for "corrupting" influences, you're looking at the completely wrong places. The biggest killer of the Christian faith isn't anime tiddies or any sort of sexual practice (as we know, many faithful Christian leaders have no problem fucking children, it doesn't seem to affect their faith at all). What actually gets people to lose faith, the ideal of epistemic rationality. If you want to preserve your faith, upside down crosses aren't what you should be scared of. Instead, you should be scared of scepticism, the scientific method, you know.. everything related to the idea that beliefs require evidence to be valid. That's what is killing religion in the west right now. If I was satan that's what I'd be spreading far and wide, a desire to have accurate beliefs about reality. Why would satan bother with some lame symbolism? That's no way to "corrupt" people. If you want people to reject Jesus, the best way to do that is to educate them, and to make them care about reality so much that they don't want to take things on faith anymore. Statistically speaking, the higher your degree of education, the lower the chance you're religious. If Satan is real, his strongest move would've been to kickstart the age of enlightenment. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
FlowersInTheRain said: The age of enlightenment is a clearly defined period in the 18th century, where a variety of ideas were first spread to then later become the foundation of our western societies. Got absolutely nothing to do with Adam and Eve.@railey2 I believe the age of enlightenment began when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of Knowledge and became aware of themselves. https://www.historycrunch.com/age-of-enlightenment-overview.html#/ |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| B-but Nanael's strongest form was in fact, Fallen Nanael! Heretic. |
SoverignJan 5, 2020 7:01 PM
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| It's probably because Taoism, Buddhism, and Shintoism don't quite have the same level of struggle of good vs evil allegory potential and approaching apocalypse as far as I am aware. Japanese have been exposed to Christianity way more than Judaism or Islam or something. This makes it better suited for action shows that deal with the world's fate. The cross is not Christian in origin anyway. Also an inverted cross isn't inherently a Satanic symbol it's a Catholic symbol relating to a saint who requested to be crucified upside down because he didn't want to be crucified like Christ. The original Christian symbol was two curved lines forming a fish. Ironically some Christians in the middle ages wore pentagrams as talismans to ward off witches. The pentagram is of Greek origin iirc representing the path of Venus in the sky. You can actually commonly see a star of david in many anime with magic but that's not intentionally taken from Judaism it's because it's taken from demonology and occultist literature which in part drew from Jewish mysticism. |
traedJan 5, 2020 8:15 PM
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| @FlowersInTheRain Its been awhile, but didn't Fallen Nanael beat the shit out of the evil characters, defeat the Matriarchy and free mankind from it's tyranny? lol |
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| @FlowersInTheRain Yeah, your girl went Palpatine. I haven't watched or read anything about Queens Blade afterwards, but before she went back to heaven her master plan was to give all the angels a harem of human men. She was an Anti-Lilith (hypogamy). In Jewish folklore, from the Alphabet of Sirach (c. 700–1000 CE) onwards, Lilith appears as Adam's first wife, who was created at the same time (Rosh Hashanah) and from the same clay as Adam—compare Genesis 1:27. (This contrasts with Eve, who was created from one of Adam's ribs: Genesis 2:22.) The legend developed extensively during the Middle Ages, in the tradition of Aggadah, the Zohar, and Jewish mysticism.[2] For example, in the 13th-century writings of Isaac ben Jacob ha-Cohen, Lilith left Adam after she refused to become subservient to him and then would not return to the Garden of Eden after she had coupled with the archangel Samael.[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith {I would dare say Lilith is a religious attempt to explain human hypergamy) |
SoverignJan 6, 2020 2:59 AM
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Soverign said: @FlowersInTheRain Yeah, your girl went Palpatine. I haven't watched or read anything about Queens Blade afterwards, but before she went back to heaven her master plan was to give all the angels a harem of human men. She was an Anti-Lilith (hypogamy). In Jewish folklore, from the Alphabet of Sirach (c. 700–1000 CE) onwards, Lilith appears as Adam's first wife, who was created at the same time (Rosh Hashanah) and from the same clay as Adam—compare Genesis 1:27. (This contrasts with Eve, who was created from one of Adam's ribs: Genesis 2:22.) The legend developed extensively during the Middle Ages, in the tradition of Aggadah, the Zohar, and Jewish mysticism.[2] For example, in the 13th-century writings of Isaac ben Jacob ha-Cohen, Lilith left Adam after she refused to become subservient to him and then would not return to the Garden of Eden after she had coupled with the archangel Samael.[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith {I would dare say Lilith is a religious attempt to explain human hypergamy) This is really interesting thanks. I don't think I ever heard of her before. Also it seems like your signature wants to put her tongue into the mouth of my signature lol   |
| @FlowersInTheRain You leave M-87-chan out of this!!! While personally I respect Nanael as a fallen angel, we disagree fundamentally. My master plan is pair up all the men on Earth with a sexy monster girl who matches their sadomasochistic tendency. |
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| religion’s incredibly popular and easy to model ideas off of most imagery is surface level, though |
FlowersInTheRain said: @soverign For me Nanael is just a parody anyway. She was never a true angel always a fallen one. I really like Nanael because she reminds me of myself. She knows she is supposed to be good but she always does bad and she wants a harem. And she is pretty confident too and her excuses are hilarious. I miss my harems. I might try making some AMVs since my PMVs keep getting taken down due to DMCA. One of my accounts got deleted and the other one is now temporarily restricted. I had so many more ideas oh well. @traed Yeah I know the cross isn't Christian origin it just became the symbol after the prophecy of his death and resurrection came to pass. I didn't know about the inverted cross origins so thanks for that but I didn't mention so far what I saw being done with the inverted cross in the porn and many other symbols of Christianity were also desecrated. Some symbols include the white dove and the fish and Catholicism uses some that The Bible says shouldn't be used such as false images of Mary and baby Jesus and the Crucifix (image of Jesus on the cross). These are not to be used but the porn desecrated them all anyway. Some really really graphic stuff. Christianity is really broad. My family is Methodist / Pentecostal. What was the hentai or doujin manga or just some random drawing? It's type of fetish. It basically is a reaction to Christian (most often Catholic) puritanical prudish ways suppressing sexuality. What is forbidden or hard to get becomes more desired. So nuns become objects of lust and crosses convenient dildos. Has no meaning in that kind of context. It mainly focuses on Catholic since it's the most structural of the Christian denominations and one of the most internationally known . Doesn't really have anything to do with anime since the fetish exists outside it. |
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FlowersInTheRain said: The dichotomy between sacred and profane is one of the most prolific in art and permeates cultural consciousness. Turning what's sacred into profane and turning what's profane into sacred is a common way to get a strong emotional reaction out of an audience. I didn't know about the inverted cross origins so thanks for that but I didn't mention so far what I saw being done with the inverted cross in the porn and many other symbols of Christianity were also desecrated. Some symbols include the white dove and the fish and Catholicism uses some that The Bible says shouldn't be used such as false images of Mary and baby Jesus and the Crucifix (image of Jesus on the cross). These are not to be used but the porn desecrated them all anyway. Some really really graphic stuff. Catholicism has a much bigger array of cultural images and associations than any other christian denomination, because it's a more organized and unified form of christianity. If you want your work to be recognized as making a religious reference, it's natural to choose catholicism for being easily identified by most audiences. If you just think the images are cool, no christian denomination has a more defined 'brand' than catholicism. In porn's case, it's using an ingrained cultural notion of what's sacred and what isn't to make the viewer feel like they're doing something that they shouldn't, either consciously or not. |
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shirakawa_megumi said: Tolerance also means to, in the name of tolerance, not tolerate the intolerant. I know you can't tell the difference because you're intolerant af, but hey. In case you didn't know, religions have a long track-record of fucking peoples rights and disrespecting their basic humanity. Maybe your argument would look better if you didn't contrast that to your baseless paranoia of "them damned lefties making people lose their jobs". And even that doesn't happen nearly as often as all the bigoted discrimination that lgbt people have to face, in no small part thanks to religion. There are thousands of documented hate-crimes committed against lgbt people every year, so if you really wanna play this game you really set yourself up to lose. I suggest you take your whining somewhere else, where people are still receptive to these stupid talking points.Maneki-Mew said: These sentences are kinda frightening and I must agree with @Railey2 thatbit shows how scared you are and how well these methods work on people. Religions control basic human needs, in some time of the year even if and when you are allowed to eat. They try to control people's sexuality and tell them what to be ashamed of and who should be punished for that. And because people start to think on their own, they tell you are going to hell for it, since fear always worked to control a big mass. Oh, bad bad religious people. They have their own beliefs and customs. If they don't force them on you, what's your problem? If Christian don't like abortions till 9 month, it doesn't mean you can't do it all the time. Of course only bad ones are Christians, but exploding brothers from some countries are good. Now instead of fear of hell, there is fear that you will your job and will fall into misery, because of new religion called "tolerance" - which mean not tolerate, but think, feel and do as we want you to, or we want sue you, fire you and destroy you livelihood. Except of what is worshipped, nothing changed. Still the same old shit. People somehow like object of cult. The same with things like royal family in UK for example. Why people still fed these leeches so they can play with their money? I can't understand it at all. So yeah, bad bad religious people. Gay marriage was only legalised in my country 2 years ago, because they stalled for like 40 years. Not good enough, fuck them. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| Historically, religion is one of the most enriching sources of inspiration for art & architecture. Cathedrals, The Renaissance, classical music. Even the earliest plays are Greek tragedies that deal with the will of the gods. Religion is the epicenter of culture and its mere presence is ubiquitous even in the lives of those who don't believe in it. |
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shirakawa_megumi said: If accepting your shitty beliefs means that I can't live with my boyfriend anymore because your international hategroup will do their best to outlaw our relationship, then tolerating said beliefs is a horrible idea and will lead to less tolerance overall (because now lots of gay people can't live with their boyfriends anymore).Railey2 said: Tolerance also means to, in the name of tolerance, not tolerate the intolerant. I know you can't tell the difference because you're intolerant af, but hey. In case you didn't know, religions have a long track-record of fucking peoples rights and disrespecting their basic humanity. Maybe your argument would look better if you didn't contrast that to your baseless paranoia of "them damned lefties making people lose their jobs". And even that doesn't happen nearly as often as all the bigoted discrimination that lgbt people have to face, in no small part thanks to religion. There are thousands of documented hate-crimes committed against lgbt people every year, so if you really wanna play this game you really set yourself up to lose. I suggest you take your whining somewhere else, where people are still receptive to these stupid talking points. So yeah, bad bad religious people. Gay marriage was only legalised in my country 2 years ago, because they stalled for like 40 years. Not good enough, fuck them. No it's not mean that. It's your redefinition of the world. Tolerance means you leave someone alone, not worship them and allow them to dictate YOUR own live. Yes I know that, I'm not religious in any way, I'm atheist. I hate religions the same amount as I hate people, who think that they are worth more than me because they aren't hetero or white. Spoiler you are not, and I will never bend to your rule. Your idea of tolerance is that I have to accept your way of living. No I don't have to. It means I have to leave you alone with your way of living. You are the ones, who want now revenge on religious/hetero people. You want destroy them for your pleasure. Do I want for non-hetero people to be gone? No. Of course you will frame me that I do. Do you want all people, who do not want to accept (not tolerate) your way of life? Yes you do. About "gay marriage". You destroying the meaning of the marriage and you are happy about that? Also why would you even want marriage which is religious concept from very beginning? You wanna take from others, fuck their beliefs. Where is your tolerance? There is none. You never had one. It is thus perfectly fine to not tolerate this intolerance, in the name of tolerance. The way this argument works is kind of similar to self-defense. Almost everyone can agree that violence is bad, EXCEPT when you use it to prevent more violence. Similarly, almost everyone agrees that intolerance is bad, except when.. you get it. "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them." If you have a problem with this argument, I'd love to hear it. Now that the neutral part is done, let me get a bit more personal. Regarding the last part of your post, I just love it love it love it. It's so good when people show their true colors, because I don't need to fuck around anymore and can just flame them without mods thinking that I'm taking things too far. You believe that allowing gay people to marry destroys marriage for straight people. You think that homosexuals corrupt the whole system, they're such a disgusting disturbance to you that them merely doing the same thing as you ruins the entire thing for you. Even if they do it completely seperately and their actions have no effect at all on your life. And then you have the nerve to talk about tolerance, this it just too good. Fuck you and your disgusting homophobia. No tolerance will be extended to the likes of you or anyone who shares your filthy, discriminatory beliefs. If you lived in my country and I saw you posting this shit on facebook, I'd be keeping a very close eye on the things you're saying and immediately report you to the authorities to have your ass fined if I found something that qualifies as hatespeech. And I'm almost certain you'd slip up eventually. You're 80 years behind the times on this one. Last but not least, you actually believe that there's a meaningful number of people want to get rid of hetero people. You're delusional, but I covered that before so I'm not gonna get into that again. Still good to see you confirm it once more. |
Railey2Jan 6, 2020 6:09 AM
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| rule of cool it just looks less boring |
shirakawa_megumi said: It's definitely not a matter of perspective.About your intelectual quote, yes, but do you see it works both ways? It's true for both sides. You are intolerant of others. From my perspective you are intolerant of my beliefs. It will only work if you assume you are one who is right. If you walk up to me with a shotgun and threaten to shoot me into the face, then I pull a gun out as well and shout back "you better watch out bro what the FUCK", you can't just respond "oh but now you're threatening ME, do you see how this works?" Homophobes like you are the aggressors, and don't you even try to pretend otherwise. Gay people didn't do shit to anyone and got lynched for centuries. Hatred against lgbt is the one-sided oppression of a minority group. This is not a confrontation where "it's true for both sides". Not really interested in reading the rest of your crap, you're clearly being dishonest again. Here I thought I could have a genuine conversation with an honest homophobe, but when you realize that you're walking on thin ice, you always start lying. Oh how I would love to talk to a homophobe who openly admits that they're the aggressors, but you always jump into this victim mentality. "Railey you just hate heterosexuals, the gays are trying to destroy us, you're gonna send people to concentration camps for not sucking trans dick, waaaaah". Yeah right, straight people are just so prosecuted, it's terrible out there for them. All that hate-crime against straight people.. oh wait it doesn't exist and you're still lying. Weak. Regardless, I feel so fucking sorry for you. And for your children, should you have them. I hope they won't be gay, but sadly there's a slim chance that they will be and in that case... oh boy. They're so gonna be so estranged. Thanks for making this world a worse place with your hatred, bud. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
MySweetLucifer said: isn't that the truth.shirakawa_megumi said: Yes, idea that everybody has to accept people with dicks are women mean there is no heterosexuality anymore. This also mean there is no homosexuality or bisexuality as you actively trying to destroy existence of biological sex in society mind. You're X-crazy, dude. Always when I see people dropping that point, it's crystal-clear to me that they don't have any valid arguments anymore lmao When people start playing the victim to justify the oppression of a minority group, you know they're serious about fucking peoples shit up. Goddamn persecution-comlex rethoric, I can't believe it actually works on some people. Like you can tell he clearly fell for it at some point. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
shirakawa_megumi said: People have already explained to you that this so dear hot take of yours you find oh so real simply isn't true. No significant group of people claims biological sex doesn't exist. You approaching trans people to say 'biological sex is real' is meant to demean, humilliate and invalidate that group of people by cowardly stating 'the truth' and implying their identity shouldn't be taken seriously. You're saying it as an attack. People are offended by attacks. The sun is bright.MySweetLucifer said: You're X-crazy, dude. Always when I see people dropping that point, it's crystal-clear to me that they don't have any valid arguments anymore lmao I'm sorry did I have some kind of hallucination, that LGBT people are saying that saying "Biological sex is real" is hate crime? They sure do. If you want to erase idea of biological sex, that means there is no heteroSEXuality, homoSEXuality or biSEXuality anymore. |
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