| I don't know how much discussion I'll see from this, especially as it turned in to a long post and many won't bother to read it all, but it's an idea I want to put out there. One of the great things about anime, for me, is how innovative, experimental, and bold many anime are in the mixing of of tones and genres. I'm not sure if it's due to the Japanese culture or if it's more just how the otaku subculture has evolved and it could have happened in any country. I'm inclined to say it's because of Japanese cultural influence, but I won't go in to why here. My point is this. It saddens me when people say that a show was 'jarring' or 'weird' because of doing something different. Obviously not everything is going to work for everyone, but I think there is a very 'normie', restrictive, narrow range of expression which some anime fans see as 'acceptable'. It's like... these people put the idea of storytelling in a box, a cage in which creativity is shackled. It's sad because they have these preconceptions of what constitutes a serious story and they struggle to get immersed when anime breaks that mold. They want straightforward, single-tone, logical stories that are as real-life relatable as possible. Goblin Slayer is a great example. There are legitimate reasons to criticize the show, but the one I simply can't agree with is the often repeated tonal critique. I think it went for a contrast where there is a super dark side to the world, which gives a sense of real danger and a backdrop of suffering, but also showing that there is a lighter tone too through the more SOL-esque segments and with how the girls are presented with a slightly moe, sexy charm. Both sides give contrast to other. With the danger presenting a threat to the happiness, the happiness is more precious due to it's fragility. Likewise, the happiness makes the danger seem more dangerous because we want to preserve the happiness. People who present the tonal critique of GS seem to me to have watched the first episode and then expected a very monotone, dark fantasy. That GS tried to do something different is awesome and it should be praised for that. Sure, it might have been better had it maintained the tone from the first episode all the way though. It might not have. That's personal preference. But when people say it's bad for mixing up the tones, I think that's incredibly ignorant what makes so much of anime - and so many good stories in general - so good. So yeah, I just really dislike this attitude and I think it is fundamentally very un-anime. Anime likes to think outside of the box. It's one of the main reasons there has always been a pushback from it going mainstream because most normies can't deal with fantastical stories which present worlds and siutations completely outside their experience. It comes from a lack of imagination, which is extremely common among the average person. I do wonder though. Are there more and more 'normie' anime nowadays that are designed to appeal to people that can't enjoy stories that do things differently? What are some of your favourite anime that mix things up? Am I wrong and anime is just weird for the sake of being weird and good stories need to be tonally consistent and relatable to the real world (the answer is no but I'm always up for debate)? |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| Anime is the weirdest shit ever and I love it for that. |
| what people find "weird" about anime, is exactly why its gaining so much popularity |
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EcchiGodMamster said: what people find "weird" about anime, is exactly why its gaining so much popularity I think this is only true to a limited extent. I think a lot of new fans look at the majority of anime and think "that is weird, I can't enjoy/get immersed/take it seriously". Western TV and Film has become so afraid to experiment, that even the average person can see how unispired, formulaic and lacking in artistic boldness it is. But most of anime is still the other extreme. There are now a new wave of fans that are like refugees from the barren, wasteland of western cinema/TV who kind of put up with most of anime because there are a few shows they can enjoy. In fact that's a really good analogy. At the risk of igniting shit for getting too political, the new fans are refugees from a place that is no longer livable but some haven't fully integrated in to anime culture. Hell, this analogy is insanely good. Think about the anime fans who call for anime girls to show less skin... I don't want to be too "anti" here. I don't mind if casuals and normies want to call themselves anime fans. And I didn't mean for this to become that debate about anime getting bad because it's going mainstream. Even though I do believe that, it's not the point of my OP. I'm pretty stoked about that analogy though... |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| Anime is exotic compare to other medium. Weird or not, I still like it. |
| It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person. |
| I haven't watched Goblin slayer but i couldn't agree more. Anime is diverse and a lot of anime trying to open newer doors are perceived 'weird' by a significant percentage of 'normie' population(Ofcourse the population differs with each Anime). One Example i can give is domestic girlfriend where it hints incestous relationships but in actuality the relationships had already been established prior to the characters becoming step-siblings(Personally hate incest stories to the core).Also it is one of the few Anime which contains realistic sex-based romance(Non-Hentai) but all the 'normie' population wants is more High-school romance where they can't even hold hands.I maybe over exaggerating but my point is that the above Anime is actually good/decent but doesn't have the appropriate number of fans simply because a lot of people did not want to get into questioning the taboos of society(Which is also perfectly understandable). |
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YossaRedMage said: Goblin Slayer is a great example. There are legitimate reasons to criticize the show, but the one I simply can't agree with is the often repeated tonal critique. I think it went for a contrast where there is a super dark side to the world, which gives a sense of real danger and a backdrop of suffering, but also showing that there is a lighter tone too through the more SOL-esque segments and with how the girls are presented with a slightly moe, sexy charm. Both sides give contrast to other. With the danger presenting a threat to the happiness, the happiness is more precious due to it's fragility. Likewise, the happiness makes the danger seem more dangerous because we want to preserve the happiness. If I may ask, how is Goblin Slayer considered "weird"? Challenging and uncomfortable to the viewers (with hints of positive hope) sure, but I'd say it's pretty digestible to the average person who likes dark fantasy. Unless you mean dark fantasy in itself is considered weird? The lighthearted filler? Or more naive or innocent follower/student versus master/sensei who-has-seen-some-shit relationship is weird? I'm not disagreeing with you, just want to see what you mean by GS being "weird". In terms of your question, I definitely agree weirdness in anime is an aspect I wouldn't want to be taken away. The whole reason I started to really catch wind of anime is because of its weirdness present in some anime. I didn't think the sexual fanservice was strange weirdly enough, and was not impressed when I first started watching anime because of this element (ie. Rosario+Vampire). But, I was finally intrigued when I discovered other aspects of anime, like plot elements or designs that were out of left field, starting with Ghost Hound, and the rest is history. |
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| I agree with @foxsurprise. All of the examples you could mention to show as an example of anime weirdness (Kuuchu Buranko, Serial Experiments Lain, Jinrui wa Suitai Shimashita, Kill la Kill, Mawaru Penguindrum, Ergo Proxy, FLCL...) you mention Goblin fuckerinmother Slayer a.k.a. I can't stand out because of good writing, so I'll use cheap controversy. You could have mention Akame ga Kill and Tate no Yuusha Nariagari just so you don't miss anything. |
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| Anime's weirdness is its most enduring quality that I love and the biggest reason for why it's my favorite medium. |
| Goblin Slayer was hardly weird. It was really just horribly cliché and boring, once you get past the shock beginning. There is absolutely nothing innovative about it, and even the occasional cool looking scenes turn out to make it just terrible on even modest reflection. The characters are some of the blandest and most forgettable, to the point that they're not even given actual names is the only thing that helps in not forgetting them. If there was a golden age of weird anime, it was the '90s. |
EcchiGodMamster said: This. And on top of this there are even western shows that try to imitate this "weirdness" (to varying degrees of success of course, but still, the intent is there).what people find "weird" about anime, is exactly why its gaining so much popularity Ironically this is a bit of a disappointment for someone like me who tends to like stuff that looks visually or genre-wise less "weird" superficially but actually wants to see the medium explore more serious plotlines involving character drama. But oh well, it's not like I'll ever run out of stuff to watch anyway. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
BlancaXLobo said: I agree with @foxsurprise. All of the examples you could mention to show as an example of anime weirdness (Kuuchu Buranko, Serial Experiments Lain, Jinrui wa Suitai Shimashita, Kill la Kill, Mawaru Penguindrum, Ergo Proxy, FLCL...) you mention Goblin fuckerinmother Slayer a.k.a. I can't stand out because of good writing, so I'll use cheap controversy. Agreed. I'd say plenty of OVAs from ~20+ yrs ago were weirder than what GS is trying, which is to appeal to one of the largest TV audience. Hell, anime from the same season like Zombieland Saga can be filed under weird. Dark fantasy is definitely popular outside of anime, especially with the Game of Thrones hype that surrounded television for the past decade or so. No clue what qualities in GS is weird. quick ps-remove the first "r" in su"r"prise to ping me. It's an intentional misspelling. I used to have this username on another site, & correct spelling of username was taken there. |
foxsurpriseJul 6, 2019 10:55 AM
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| No I don't think anime is that weird, in fact it doesn't even come close to stuff like South Park. I've already accepted it as a good medium for storytelling so idk why I would still consider it weird. Anime as a whole could be considered weirder if you put it against another form of media but that's only because it has a lot of variety. I don't find the stuff a lot of anime contain weird compared to other shit I've seen. Most people probably do so because of the art styles in anime. Cartoons in the west don't resemble humans as realistically as anime does, it'll take a while to get used to it. Only things I would seriously consider weird are sexualized lolis and incestuous relationships if done excessively but it's easy to avoid. Watching Black Bullet and NGNL as a 14-15 year old everytime such scenes came into play all I could think was ''why the fuck would I enjoy this'' since these stories don't have any advanced romance. Allow me to rant about GS The art syle, world and plot are all generic, the story plays out like every RPG game. The creators were well aware that many people would like it, it's what a lot of otakus and anime fans in general love. It's as innovative as one of the first anime I watched, Highschool of the Dead. A violent world where the story revolves around badass killers and cute sexy girls, with its fair share of SoL segments. A poor action anime with a lot of fanservice. HotD was at least visually way more appealing, both in action scenes and fanservice, it was also more honest because everything in that show is sexy, even killing or getting killed by zombies. GS has these awkward shifts, like some weird wizard in a guild with a speech isorder to have her big tits on screen. First episode of Goblin Slayer was already retarded. It started dumb and carefree which made the violent scenes with goblins all the more hard to take serious. It's like watching police cosplayers being send to the favelas but those cosplayers actually take themselves seriously, and wait, the same people who send them think the favelas are ruled by 12 year old shoplifters. I don't understand how the anime expected me to feel a sense of danger watching helpless idiots getting killed and raped, character designs aren't enough to make me feel something, there needs to be at least a little bit of believability. The rape scene in 1 episode made me laugh at how stupid everything developed, felt like slapstick with sexual violence thrown in but not conveying any sense of comedic intent, too bad it didn't have enough visual orgasm, ugly CGI and uninspired action choreography mixed with generic lazy writing don't mix well. I was weirded out by how bad it is and how a lot of people claimed it was different just for having sexual violence. That's super normie imo I believe it's garbage and doesn't have good sense of tonal shifts. There's no thought put into the worldbuilding, inhabitants disregard the danger of goblins, so where's the contrast of showing some sexy girls, no one cares about the ''super dark'' world of goblins anyway even if they're aware of all the atrocities they commit. Doesn't seem like the narrative intended to showcase such a contrast, I think it was a cheap attempt to cater to people who love its sex appeal and portrayal of violence, not that there's anything wrong with that and if people saw more in it even better. Basically the contrast you speak of is as noteworthy as sexy cute girls fighting to the death. You can like it but don't force others to praise it for doing things ''different'', dark themes mixed with fanservice and lighthearted scenes are not original or unique, especially when it's filled with standard fantasy tropes and copies every other RPG-esque setting. It came out in 2018, no way that it is innovative, experimental and bold more like the opposite. Very strange example to use for this topic. After all it just comes down to taste, a lot of people believe it was executed well enough but me and others do not. And that anology omg, how much spend time do you spend on Twitter. You already told me you don't seek out Western TV and Film anymore so unless you give specific examples what's the point of constantly expressing what you think about it. You can find anime fans everywhere who have the exact same issues with the anime industry. You're putting the entirety of Western media against the Japanese anime industry, generalizing both of them and letting your fears of western mainstreamification take over even though there are enough western productions not being tainted by all of the things you deem problematic. Let's calm down for a few years and wait to see if the angry Western mainstream will be able to pipe Japan in the ass or not. |
| poop |
foxsuprise said: YossaRedMage said: Goblin Slayer is a great example. There are legitimate reasons to criticize the show, but the one I simply can't agree with is the often repeated tonal critique. I think it went for a contrast where there is a super dark side to the world, which gives a sense of real danger and a backdrop of suffering, but also showing that there is a lighter tone too through the more SOL-esque segments and with how the girls are presented with a slightly moe, sexy charm. Both sides give contrast to other. With the danger presenting a threat to the happiness, the happiness is more precious due to it's fragility. Likewise, the happiness makes the danger seem more dangerous because we want to preserve the happiness. If I may ask, how is Goblin Slayer considered "weird"? Challenging and uncomfortable to the viewers (with hints of positive hope) sure, but I'd say it's pretty digestible to the average person who likes dark fantasy. Unless you mean dark fantasy in itself is considered weird? The lighthearted filler? Or more naive or innocent follower/student versus master/sensei who-has-seen-some-shit relationship is weird? I'm not disagreeing with you, just want to see what you mean by GS being "weird". In terms of your question, I definitely agree weirdness in anime is an aspect I wouldn't want to be taken away. The whole reason I started to really catch wind of anime is because of its weirdness present in some anime. I didn't think the sexual fanservice was strange weirdly enough, and was not impressed when I first started watching anime because of this element (ie. Rosario+Vampire). But, I was finally intrigued when I discovered other aspects of anime, like plot elements or designs that were out of left field, starting with Ghost Hound, and the rest is history. EDIT: Tagging @BlancaXLobo and @U1111 because they also called in to question my use of GS as an example. As I've used it here, "weird" is kind of catch-all term and yeah it doesn't apply to Goblin Slayer very well. The more general notion of tonal mixing is more what I'm using GS as an example for. Or rather... I'm kind of critiquing the common critique of GS that is didn't work because of the mixed tones and using that critique as an example of the narrow-minded view many take when digesting stories that they must kind of... stick within a set of lines, if you get my meaning. Thinking about. Yeah, most anime fans wouldn't describe GS as 'weird' but I was pretty active on r/anime when it was airing and there were a lot of people that thought the light-hearted very 'anime' tones (SOL, harem-esque cute girls sort of stuff) didn't work because it was 'set up as a dark fantasy'. It was clear these people hadn't been exposed to much of anime if they couldn't take that quite tame mix of tropes/genres/tones. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| @YossaRedMage even if that's the case, i think you can use better examples than Goblin Slayer for the mixing of tones. Which most people could call a tone problem, by the way. |
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| I didn't watch Goblin Slayer because I read that the Goblin Slayer is not a nice person and didn't want to watch it for that reason. I'm one of the people who dropped it during the first episode. But I did watch Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash which also did struggling adventurers fighting goblins. I watched that as a seasonal anime watching newbie. I also really liked Reincarnated as a Slime where the goblins are cute so I watched that during that season instead of Goblin Slayer. There is a lot they can do with the fantasy genre so maybe Goblin Slayer gets better in the 2nd ep or later or maybe it just isn't for me but the first ep didn't pull me in and don't really want to watch the brutality aspect of it if there isn't something else that makes me want to watch more of it. I'm willing to watch scifi and fantasy things that will push the boundaries of my expectations - sometimes - but there are times I burn out on it. I'm not going to shun non anime tv shows and become an otaku who says 2d>3d. Ever since I heard the definition of otaku as someone who is obsessive about a hobby I think there can be both good and bad sides to that. Regardless of what you feel media is showing politically you have to accept that people also put care into the creation of non anime things regardless of the genre. Saying I want their outfits to be different in this certain scifi/fantasy anime because it would be better to me if they looked more realistic, is actually something I say and consider a complaint but I don't actually expect them to change it in retrospect and if it's really something that's bothering me then I just have to decide if it's not worth watching for that reason. Similarly if I read reviews sometimes people complain about things that didn't bother me but everyone has different opinions. Sometimes saying it's too weird can be a way of saying I don't like it but don't exactly know why, and it's better to not watch something you don't want to watch until everyone is talking about it so much that you give up and watch it to see why but even then maybe not? When I first watched FLCL I remember thinking it was so cool, and then my friend told me they didn't like it, and I was kind of sad but I also had to think about why they didn't like it, so, there have also been a lot of anime since then I didn't like. |
| Eh, you kinda just get used to it. Anime feels pretty normal to me now. |
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Esquirtit said: Allow me to rant about GS Oh God. You can't bring up GS without one of you pretentious fucks chiming in with a goddamn essay on why everyone else should listen to his refined, good taste opinion. Sorry, not opinion but objective fact-based critique. Thing is you actually drinkenly stumble in to some good points but you phrase them in such an insanely over-the-top, toxic way that it's impossible to take you seriously. Ironic because that seems to be the gist of why you dislike GS. Esquirtit said: The art syle, world and plot are all generic Plot isn't generic. Hero is a serverely damaged man who isn't fighting the hardest stuff but just devotes his life to killing the creatures no one cares about because there aren't enough people who will. I'm sure you can point out stories that are similar but there's stuff there which isn't explored all that often. Oh and inb4 'why don't they take the goblins seriously if they're so bad, it doesn't make sense!' Listen, you know the sort of people who say fantasy worlds / plots don't make sense? Those with a lack of imagination. Most of the time, there is some plausible explanation. And there is in case but I want to keep this as short as possible. And the world? Really? Sure, it's a pretty traditional fantasy on the surface but I don't think you'll find many other shows that commit to the D&D stuff quite so much. The idea of God playing dice is even baked in to lore. Besides which, 'generic' is a poor critique. Just because you've seen stuff like it before doesn't mean other people have. And generic anime art is precisely why many people like anime. Not every show needs to do something groundbreaking with it's art. The characters are plenty distinct and detailed with personality in their appearance. You're probably just one those people that doesn't like the typical anime art style. Esquirtit said: A poor action anime with a lot of fanservice... GS has these awkward shifts, like some weird wizard in a guild with a speech isorder to have her big tits on screen. There isn't even that much fan service unless you're a complete prude who can't stand the slightest bit of skin. If that's the case you read the bible instead of watching anime. It will be more your style. Witch's character never even presents a tonal shift. Again, I think this is just more anti-fan service bias. You're one of these people that can't take a story seriously if there's the slight sexuality to it. All fan service is just humorous to you. It's such a fucking sad way of viewing sex, I genuinely feel sorry for your inability to take sexuality seriously in anime. It's like... I always point out the scene with sword maiden talking to GS on the bed. People made a huge fuss over the emphasis on her breasts. But it's all reactionary, short-sighted and deeply cyncial bullshit. It's a serious scene where she is recounting a haunting, horrific experience and sharing it with GS. The focus on her breasts is to highlight her femininity. It reminds us that she is a woman and makes us think of her as the sexual creature that she is. By highlighting that, it makes the things she alludes to more real in our minds. It's really good use of sexuality. I think it shows a difference in persepctive between people. Again, you cannot take sex seriously, or at least not in GS, because of the mixing of tones. It is a shortcoming of you, not the show. Every time I watched a reaction video of GS and it got to that scene (I got addicted to GS reaction videos a while back), the guy or guys would always make some humorous comment about how her breasts are emphasized. It's so fucking childish. You're just the same, but instead of laughing, you're bemoaning how out of place the comedy is. But it's not meant to be comedic you idiot. To think that's the case you have to be so incredibly cynical and have such a disgustingly misanthropic view of humanity that I feel bad for anyone that has to spend time around you in real life. Esquirtit said: It started dumb and carefree which made the violent scenes with goblins all the more hard to take serious. Thanks for proving my point and being the perfect example of a narrow-minded person who can't appreciate contrast. It starts light-hearted and carefree so that it's more shocking when it all goes to shit. The great thing about the first episode is you know it's coming. There's this feeling that these characters are not taking things seriously enough and all kinds of others things which puts the viewer on edge. It sounds like you were already determined to hate it from the start. Look... This is so frustrating. I could go on with your comment because almost everything you said is based on bad assumptions or is just plain narrow-minded. But this thread isn't about GS. I was just using it as an example. But I should have known at this point that you can't bring up GS is any kind of positive light without someone giving their opinion and I can't let that comment slide without giving at least some pushback. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
YossaRedMage said: EcchiGodMamster said: what people find "weird" about anime, is exactly why its gaining so much popularity I think this is only true to a limited extent. I think a lot of new fans look at the majority of anime and think "that is weird, I can't enjoy/get immersed/take it seriously". Western TV and Film has become so afraid to experiment, that even the average person can see how unispired, formulaic and lacking in artistic boldness it is. But most of anime is still the other extreme. There are now a new wave of fans that are like refugees from the barren, wasteland of western cinema/TV who kind of put up with most of anime because there are a few shows they can enjoy. In fact that's a really good analogy. At the risk of igniting shit for getting too political, the new fans are refugees from a place that is no longer livable but some haven't fully integrated in to anime culture. Hell, this analogy is insanely good. Think about the anime fans who call for anime girls to show less skin... I don't want to be too "anti" here. I don't mind if casuals and normies want to call themselves anime fans. And I didn't mean for this to become that debate about anime getting bad because it's going mainstream. Even though I do believe that, it's not the point of my OP. I'm pretty stoked about that analogy though... well considering anime is made for japanese people.. only people who can think outside their cultural norms will truly get into anime... that just kinda sucks for those new fans eh... i have to say anime is no less afraid to experiment, i mean... anime now and anime of the past aren't really much different if at all, but i think thats good, japan knows what japan wants and they bow down to no one else i agree that western media getting woke and other shit like that that most people never asked for definitely is helping the increase of anime popularity of anime though well theres no need for them to... most western people aren't integrated into western cartoon culture either lol i think the majority of people are just looking for something entertaining to watch and not having real life issues... especially shit that only people on twitter and like sites care about, shoved down their throats anime is more mainstream than ever, but anime hasn't really changed as a result... i mean.. i can't think of ANYTHING im seeing in todays anime that doesn't go back to at least the 80s |
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foxsuprise said: BlancaXLobo said: I agree with @foxsurprise. All of the examples you could mention to show as an example of anime weirdness (Kuuchu Buranko, Serial Experiments Lain, Jinrui wa Suitai Shimashita, Kill la Kill, Mawaru Penguindrum, Ergo Proxy, FLCL...) you mention Goblin fuckerinmother Slayer a.k.a. I can't stand out because of good writing, so I'll use cheap controversy. Agreed. I'd say plenty of OVAs from ~20+ yrs ago were weirder than what GS is trying, which is to appeal to one of the largest TV audience. Hell, anime from the same season like Zombieland Saga can be filed under weird. Dark fantasy is definitely popular outside of anime, especially with the Game of Thrones hype that surrounded television for the past decade or so. No clue what qualities in GS is weird. quick ps-remove the first "r" in su"r"prise to ping me. It's an intentional misspelling. I used to have this username on another site, & correct spelling of username was taken there. First of all, as much as I'm tired of taking about GS, I can't help myself when it comes to defending that show so here we go again I guess. The controvery around the show was entirely down to a small minority of perpetually offended idiots. There was nothing controversial about the scene in question or the show in general. Much more horrific stuff has been shown in more detail in anime in the past. It just happend to be the case that because of the usual suspects, there was a controvery this time. To think the author of the original LN, which by the way had much more graphic content, specifically was trying to get people interested in his story by being controversial is really dumb. There are interviews out there with the guy and he is a really earnest fan of dark fantasy and wanted to do something a bit different with it while taking a lot of inspiration form past dark fantasies. You assumption that the people making the show were cyncically trying to drum up controvery is just sad. That you actually think that way instead of just enjoying a story for what it is... kind of pethetic. So "I can't stand out so I'll use cheap controversy" is a bunch of fucking horseshit. The controversy helped it, but if that pisses you off you should go complain to the SJWs on Twitter. Don't come up with nonsense reasons to shit on the show. As for the question of examples, I think there is some confusion about how I'm using weird here. Maybe I shouldn't have used that word in the first place. I'm talking about bold genre/trope/tone mixing. SEL and Ergo Proxy don't really count. They both have very set narrow tones and fit very tidily in to their genres. You might argue that regarding SEL but honestly I've always seen it as a standard psychological thriller told in that kind of artsy ambiguous way. I like it alot, don't get wrong, but I saw plenty of stuff like it in my time before discovering anime. You could say they are both 'weird' in general, but they both tell stories which you could reasonably expect to find outside of anime, with the exception of the Ergo Proxy quiz episode. Zombieland Saga definitely fits. Idols / zombies / comedy. That's bold as fuck. Didn't really work for me as show but it fits what I'm talking about. Kill la Kill works. Penguindrum I haven't seen but if it's like the directors most recent work (Sarazanmai) then it kind of fits but I couldn't get past the second or third episode so I'm not expert on it. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| @YossaRedMage Penguindrum is much better than Sarazanmai, and equally weird. I'm a big fan of Ikuhara's work and I've seen all of his anime, included that Sailor Moon film, so I think I'm qualified to say Sarazanmai is his worst work. Ergo Proxy and Serial Experiments Lain can't qualify in the trope making sense... You have a point at least about Serial Experiments Lain. Ergo Proxy takes more liberty in some in their individual episodes, like the one in which Pino visits a Western classic cartoon-esque's city. But plot wise, specially Lain, are pretty weird. And don't take this the wrong way, i laugh my ass off with Zombieland Saga, and they really take adventage of the premise "We're an idol show where the idols are zombies", but in my scale of Anime Weirdness, Zombieland Saga would be just a 1. A 10 would be Tenshi no Tamago, if you're interested. It's just... I watched a lot of weird stuff. A lot. And about Goblin Slayer... I'll just adress a few points. This is not an attack, just thoughts i have. First, the writer can be earnest, but you can be really earnest with your work, but then it's the success you have executing the story. Also in an interview where he's selling the work he'll always say the thing that would made look like his novel is worth reading. You can be the biggest fan of anything, and still what you did with it can be shit. Just look at Duncan Jones's Warcraft film. No one is going to say "I just put this in my story as a cheap way to attract viewers/readers". So, did Goblin Slayer's author lied and use cheap shock value to sell his novel? Probably not, maybe he genuinely thinks he's doing well. Like most cases. Most authors doesn't realised their mistakes untill another person points them out to them. It's human nature. Incompetence is unintentional most of the times. Also, the "SJWs complain about anything" escape goat. Really? |
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| I can see that "clearly". Before seeing this I thought I have watched some weird animes. Now I can't stop laughing. XD |
"The most amazing and interesting story in this world ever existed is the story of the world itself where all stories happened" -Hassaan Lightstone- |
YossaRedMage said: foxsuprise said: Agreed. I'd say plenty of OVAs from ~20+ yrs ago were weirder than what GS is trying, which is to appeal to one of the largest TV audience. Hell, anime from the same season like Zombieland Saga can be filed under weird. Dark fantasy is definitely popular outside of anime, especially with the Game of Thrones hype that surrounded television for the past decade or so. No clue what qualities in GS is weird. quick ps-remove the first "r" in su"r"prise to ping me. It's an intentional misspelling. I used to have this username on another site, & correct spelling of username was taken there. [...]"I can't stand out so I'll use cheap controversy" is a bunch of fucking horseshit. The controversy helped it, but if that pisses you off you should go complain to the SJWs on Twitter. Don't come up with nonsense reasons to shit on the show. Forgive my miscommunication, but I wasn't agreeing in terms of the word "controversy", but moreso on the fact that there's other examples you could've used, like Zombieland Saga from the same season. That's why I didn't go into detail in regards to that in my reply to @BlancaXLobo , specifically the controversy part. He's the one who made that statement, and I couldn't care less if that's true or not. Same with his examples. It's also why I said the appeal is the genre, dark fantasy, is a contributing factor as to why it became popular. It's not weird to have dark subject matter in a dark fantasy (as is lighthearted filler, though in this case the tonal shift can be a problem of enjoyment for some). If I had to say though, another big chunk of the controversy came from the age rating on CR being misleading, which is understandable imo. Though nothing in part of the show in this regard. Also, Zombieland Saga is weird, but, like BlancaXLobo said, it's definitely not up there at all. I just used it because it's fairly popular and from the same season. If I had to list weird anime from the top of my head it can be something short like Madonna(epilepsy warning), or movie length(-ish) like Cat Soup or something. The world of weird anime is your oyster, go out there and explore it. |
foxsurpriseJul 6, 2019 2:46 PM
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| "I think anime is wired". I am a big watcher and considered anime weird in a bad way once... But now... You can see the prove how much my thinking changed about animes by seeing my waifu... So the conclusion of the story is... Anime is still wired, but now in a good way (anime changed my thinking?! Weird!). |
"The most amazing and interesting story in this world ever existed is the story of the world itself where all stories happened" -Hassaan Lightstone- |
I remember the first time I thought I was watching weird stuff was during MTV in the early and mid 90s. Those cartoons were unlike anything I had seen. Ironically when it comes to anime the closest to it apart from indie animation, are the works of M.Yuasa and H.Imaishi and they must have been influenced by it too. |
YossaRedMage said: I mean I'm pretty sure I made clear I was going to rant. The complete opposite of trying to come off ass someone with refined good taste. You brought it up and used it as an example for this topic. I never bothered to think about the anime before this, all of what I said is based on 4 or 5 episodes I've seen when it was airing weekly. Oh God. You can't bring up GS without one of you pretentious fucks chiming in with a goddamn essay on why everyone else should listen to his refined, good taste opinion. Sorry, not opinion but objective fact-based critique. Thing is you actually drinkenly stumble in to some good points but you phrase them in such an insanely over-the-top, toxic way that it's impossible to take you seriously. Ironic because that seems to be the gist of why you dislike GS. YossaRedMage said: Point was more that it wasn't some bold move by the creators, which is what this topic was about. It was guaranteed for success. Even then by your logic the plot isn't generic because the MC has this humble motivation, yeah fine lol. From what I've seen all the quests were basic af, so were all the fantasy rpg elements that came with it. He's just slaying goblins, even fans say you shouldn't expect much more. If you've played any RPG games or hell have seen every isekai none of it should come as a surprise. Only the premise was somewhat unusual cause it's fucking stupidPlot isn't generic. Hero is a serverely damaged man who isn't fighting the hardest stuff but just devotes his life to killing the creatures no one cares about because there aren't enough people who will. I'm sure you can point out stories that are similar but there's stuff there which isn't explored all that often. YossaRedMage said: I'm not familiar with D&D, I also never understood that part of the ''lore''. So what if everything happening is actually just some dude playing D&D. This is just another reason why I think it's a bad example for this topic because it goes against your initial points. Anyone not familiar with the game it's specifically based off won't miss anything about the story and characters, it's more like a homage to that game. It shares enough with other RPG games and fantasy works.And the world? Really? Sure, it's a pretty traditional fantasy on the surface but I don't think you'll find many other shows that commit to the D&D stuff quite so much. The idea of God playing dice is even baked in to lore. YossaRedMage said: You're right about generic being a poor critique but it more had to do with how you started this topic. Obviously if something is generic but you haven't experienced it before you have no reason to give a fuck. No I don't always hate typical anime art style but in this case a lot modern fantasy anime are way too similar and play it extremely safe. After trying so many stumbling on another one takes away from the fantastical experience it was going for. There's a reason why MiA got so much praise, it shits on everything the industry has been shitting out. Besides which, 'generic' is a poor critique. Just because you've seen stuff like it before doesn't mean other people have. And generic anime art is precisely why many people like anime. Not every show needs to do something groundbreaking with it's art. The characters are plenty distinct and detailed with personality in their appearance. You're probably just one those people that doesn't like the typical anime art style. Esquirtit said: Ok I was just making a comparison to something I've seen years ago. I wouldn't even be able to take GS serious if it didn't have fanservice at all. My whole point was if it went the way HotD did I would've appreciated it a lot more.There isn't even that much fan service unless you're a complete prude who can't stand the slightest bit of skin. If that's the case you read the bible instead of watching anime. It will be more your style. Witch's character never even presents a tonal shift. Again, I think this is just more anti-fan service bias. You're one of these people that can't take a story seriously if there's the slight sexuality to it. All fan service is just humorous to you. It's such a fucking sad way of viewing sex, I genuinely feel sorry for your inability to take sexuality seriously in anime. YossaRedMage said: I never made it to this part sorry. Lol makes my rant even more stupid. Last time you referenced her I thought she would've been introduced earlier but now that I look her up I can't recall seeing her. If it's after episode 4 or 5 I for sure have not. That might have been a good scene, I can understand why showing the attractive bodyparts of a woman who's telling about her experience of sexual assault would have a lot of impact and thematic relevance, however I only encountered cowgirl and wizardslutIt's like... I always point out the scene with sword maiden talking to GS on the bed. People made a huge fuss over the emphasis on her breasts. But it's all reactionary, short-sighted and deeply cyncial bullshit. It's a serious scene where she is recounting a haunting, horrific experience and sharing it with GS. The focus on her breasts is to highlight her femininity. It reminds us that she is a woman and makes us think of her as the sexual creature that she is. By highlighting that, it makes the things she alludes to more real in our minds. It's really good use of sexuality. YossaRedMage said: Well I probably would've had a different opinion on the sexuality in the show but I never made it to that part. I can only remember cowgirl, wizardgirl, the elf in his party and some people of the guild. I know what I like and what I don't, most of the sexual fanservice in the first few episodes just did nothing to me. I don't think using the term sex means much here, I'm only talking about the parts where the intention is to arouse the viewer. And most of the time in fiction it does nothing to me unless I'm in the mood for it, but there's porn for that. A scene like with the sword maiden I for sure wouldn't mistake for comedy or out of place fanserviceI think it shows a difference in persepctive between people. Again, you cannot take sex seriously, or at least not in GS, because of the mixing of tones. It is a shortcoming of you, not the show. Every time I watched a reaction video of GS and it got to that scene (I got addicted to GS reaction videos a while back), the guy or guys would always make some humorous comment about how her breasts are emphasized. It's so fucking childish. You're just the same, but instead of laughing, you're bemoaning how out of place the comedy is. But it's not meant to be comedic you idiot. To think that's the case you have to be so incredibly cynical and have such a disgustingly misanthropic view of humanity that I feel bad for anyone that has to spend time around you in real life. YossaRedMage said: It was just too dumb. I remember they showed the priest getting saved by Goblin Slayer in the opening scenes, seeing how they came to that point was top tier unintentional comedy. What does this have to do with not appreciating contrast, everyone over the age of 12 gets it, no one took the goblins seriously. It's about the execution, no wonder if you're a helpless idiot not doing any fucking research on which creatures you're even able to take on you're going to get rekt. Surely I can have the opinion that it's stupid and never accomplished to make me invested in the story?Thanks for proving my point and being the perfect example of a narrow-minded person who can't appreciate contrast. It starts light-hearted and carefree so that it's more shocking when it all goes to shit. The great thing about the first episode is you know it's coming. There's this feeling that these characters are not taking things seriously enough and all kinds of others things which puts the viewer on edge. It sounds like you were already determined to hate it from the start. YossaRedMage said: Like I said I just wanted to rant. I actually think this is a good thread. The thing is you aren't going to find the people you're talking about here. You can believe I'm one of them but I'm not though lol. Sorry for going through my incomplete and misinformed opinion on GS I guessLook... This is so frustrating. I could go on with your comment because almost everything you said is based on bad assumptions or is just plain narrow-minded. But this thread isn't about GS. I was just using it as an example. But I should have known at this point that you can't bring up GS is any kind of positive light without someone giving their opinion and I can't let that comment slide without giving at least some pushback. |
| poop |
| Not as much as people who like to watch it. |
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| The more you watch it, the more you get used to the weirdness of anime. I was already somewhat tolerate of weird shit before starting anime, having watched shows like Aqua Teen Hunger Force. |
| Yeah.... Anime is weird and so here we are |
 |
| By the way, @YossaRedMage, following up on our earlier conversations: There's elements of anime that are "weird" in the sense of "strange and abnormal", but there are also elements of anime that are rarely present in other television-based media that don't register as "weird" yet are also rather distinctive to anime. Elements like mono no aware are no less distinctive to anime than things like anime fanservice tropes. Besides, it's important to note that what makes a satisfying production (1) can vary from person to person, and (2) often is does not just involve merely having a certain trope present (unless one is very much interested in having that trope and basically doesn't care about anything else). For example, an anime series is not automatically a great thing for mixing tones, particularly when those tones create an unpleasant experience for the viewer; and an anime series is not automatically a less worthy work for not mixing tones, particularly when one consistent tone makes more sense for a story. By the way, you may want to consider that a number of anime series -- as well as visual novels -- make a point of a consistently wistful, melancholy tone. Such a tone is rarely considered a "weird Japanese thing" and thus rarely praised for being "weird" (or "something that normies won't get" or whatever), yet if anything it is more of what draws me to anime, than any visual weirdness or crazy use of fanservice or whatever, none of which I'm all that interested in. (Such a tone is often absent from western works trying to imitate anime, which often go for action, comedy, and parody/referential aspects, and superficial elements like fight scenes, oversized kawaii eyes, face faults, and fanservice. Frankly speaking, I wish more people would pay attention to this tone element.) (Curiously, this tone could even be said to somewhat influence comedy -- there's a good amount of anime comedy that involves patient/observational/subtle humor, rather than high-speed high-impact gags which are what used to make me very skeptical of anime comedy and still remains not my thing.) |
GlennMagusHarveyJul 6, 2019 9:57 PM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| One of the things I like about anime is that it blends the creativity of books into a visual form. The problem with a lot of movies and TV shows is that the money making aspect of it is so crucial that if something doesn't seem like it'll make a lot of money, it doesn't get created or it has to survive on a minuscule budget. The good thing about anime is that you don't have to hire actors/actresses and use lots of fancy special effects to make an animated TV show. This makes it much easier to be experimental because you can create pretty much anything you want with 3-6 million dollars. The last season of Game of Thrones, by contrast, cost 90 million dollars to make. So in order to make a TV show on the scale of Game of Thrones, producers need to know that its going to rake in lots of cash to make up for that money loss. In anime, they're more okay with trying a new concept even if some series completely fail to generate income because other animes make enough money to make up for the losses. |
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| Yes, anime is weird, just watch Kodocha, (Child's Toy), from the mid 1990's, the series was probably weirder than the manga. It was like some sort of soap opera + bizzare comedy, (like the 1970's TV show "Soap"). The perfect example of the weirdness of anime. |
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