Goblin Slayer (light novel)
| Context is rather important. It separates violence used for a reason from that would otherwise be classified as "edgy" in newspeak. Medieval and rape go hand-in-hand. Especially in fantasy where there are creatures such as goblins, orc, etc. Whether it's monsters, bandits pillaging or soldiers reaping the spoils of war, the end result is the same: women objectified and abused. It comes with the territory. To react with outrage to this point alone is to bask in self-entitled ignorance. Whilst Berserk and Goblin Slayer are not remotely similar if you remove their settings and rape, and even the graphic nature of the rape scenes themselves differ drastically (nothing is shown, only suggested in GS), there is clear and defined world-building and reasoning that prevents it from being pornographic in GS. The only logical fallacy being women actively entering goblin caves; enforced diversity at play in fiction, if you will. Kinda ironic. In the case of GS, the entire premise the series is built on is that goblins capture and/or rape women, as well as murder them. This had to be illustrated at some point or else be censored. It was used in ep1 as a crutch that lead-in to the protagonists calculated, brutal approach to goblin slaying. Presumably there are no female goblins, and if so to protect humans goblins must be exterminated to the last. As simplistic as GS is, with its generic art and tit-moe waifu on top, Berserk's usage of rape in comparison is far more sexual in nature and subjective as a result, so I dread to think how people would view Casca moaning as she was raped so one man could get revenge against another. Or her needing to be nearly raped to pick up a sword to fight for a man! It would be a SJW goldmine, were it not decades old now. 100-man killer genocidal Guts would be added comedy if killing goblin babies was 'triggering', also. In summary, I just find it a rather damning indictment of the times that rape is more noteworthy than gruesome murder in entertainment. Logic somehow got warped to that extent. It's bizarre. |
| The biggest thing to take from this situation is that people don't know that Nudity =/= Porn And Something Being Shown =/= Something being endorsed. People also didn't get that Goblins are the enemies. That is the reason they are shown doing such bad things, not for you to simpatize with them. People went into GS blind with the Idea of Watching Just Another Isekai, Not a My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. That can be part of the problem but people were still bitching after the controversy broke out like if thy watched it minutes after it came out in CR. I think its one of the best modern Dark fantasy shows if you can Stomach it. I think I am the contrary of that because I Watched because of the Dark, twisted and Maybe Edgy Shit. Maybe I liked it so much because I already knew what to expect without knwing exactly what happens. Like always, Perspective is everything. |
  愛がなければ、見えない。 Without Love, the truth cannot be seen. |
| I honestly don't think it would be. Kara No Kyoukai came and went with a far more explicit rape scene and it's generally loved. Kill La Kill, one of the most beloved animes of the current generation had INCESTUOUS RAPE AND ABUSE between a mother and her daughter and even the people on tumblr love it for some reason. I think the difference between these shows that have had these kinds of scenes in them and Goblin Slayer is that Goblin Slayer really tries to make it's mark by focussing exclusively on it's edge. It's like the Blood series or Akame Ga Kill where the shock factor is it's selling point (Both of which got complained about a LOT in comparison to stuff like Berserk, even though it wasn't any less intense and sometimes way more), whereas the examples I mentioned before just have them in it but don't focus on them exclusively. If Goblin Slayer ended up having stellar character development, deep lore and intricate political systems at work, people would be praising it as the second coming of berserk. But it ain't trying to do all that. It just wants to be Goblin Slayer. Killing Goblins will always be the focus of the story and people will just use that to rag on every little flaw the show has because it doesn't want to do more. |
| I dunno, kinda wished the production of Goblin Slayer didn't just lift everything directly from the manga. If it went with its own style and it was just extremely well animated/storyboarded, as well as changed their character designs to fit most other dark fantasy series a lot of people like you mentioned would just do a heel turn and call it amazing. Because the series creator stated how he was trying to go for a Punisher set in Record of Lodoss War...and that sounds freaking awesome. Too bad it got attached to a lazy asf production who didn't understand the appeal of the source material. |
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SNDT said: Bersek doesn't focus on rape and it's not the point there whilst in the case of GS rape is the calling card. It's THE ONLY reason of it's popularity. On every site, under every GS video, every discussion about this anime comes down to rape and how good these scenes were depicted in manga. Simple as that. Remove rape from GS and no one would give a fuck about this anime. I can say as a first time viewer, you could still remove the rape, and episode 1 woulds still have been brutal. All this discussion, all those buthurted childs just proves the point that this comunity is full of idiotic inmature people that cant hold an argument without going retards. |
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HeroicIdealism said: SNDT said: Bersek doesn't focus on rape and it's not the point there whilst in the case of GS rape is the calling card. It's THE ONLY reason of it's popularity. On every site, under every GS video, every discussion about this anime comes down to rape and how good these scenes were depicted in manga. Simple as that. Remove rape from GS and no one would give a fuck about this anime. I love Berserk but I have to admit that the 'edge' of Berserk is one of the reasons why I love it. Yes, including the rape, of which the manga does explicitly show and focus on, many times. The manga doesn't give a damn about your feelings. It will make you feel uncomfortable, it will spit in your face, and to an even greater degree than Goblin Slayer (as far as I can tell from episodes 1 and 2). Berserk fans were pissed about the 1997 TV series and the Golden Age trilogy either completely removing or glossing over Not to mention the tens of other explicit rape scenes within the manga. Do you realize how disgusting the There is nothing so far within Goblin Slayer that comes anywhere near the level of depraved barbarity of the torture rape found within Berserk. Playcool said: I can say as a first time viewer, you could still remove the rape, and episode 1 woulds still have been brutal. All this discussion, all those buthurted childs just proves the point that this comunity is full of idiotic inmature people that cant hold an argument without going retards. Yeah, I agree, the rape was not the most brutal thing in the episode. So why are you so butthurt about it? Oh, and, for the record, I like Goblin Slayer because of the badass main lead, not because of the rape. When Goblin Slayer in episode 1, I knew this show was going to be one hell of a ride. Does Berserk have far more depth to it than Goblin Slayer? Without a doubt. But to say that rape is all Goblin Slayer has going for it is ridiculous; to even presume that Goblin Slayer's rape scenes are more grotesque or less 'tasteful' (because apparently rape can be tasteful or something) than Berserk's is incredibly disingenuous. I'll leave you with this: how many badass, stoic main male characters do we get in anime nowadays? Not enough, I would say, but Goblin Slayer definitely delivers. Pretty much this. Again, the series creator was not going for depth other than to use Goblins as a therapy session for someone with severe survivor's guilt. He explicitly mentioned the Punisher as one of his main inspirations and how the story is about a SMALL TIME CHARACTER in a much larger world. If people could love the Punisher for DECADES even though he's been doing little variations of the same thing for again, DECADES, then its pretty hypocritical to shit on the appeal of Goblin Slayer just because it had an offensive depiction of rape. Because of course it was offensive. No amount of editing would please everyone and if it did that would be even more offensive as there's no such thing as a pleasent rape. The only problem is, that this amime adaptation lifts TOO MUCH from the manga and NOT that it doesn't adapt enough. Panels in manga that are direct copies of action scenes in the anime with no obligation to replicate the sequence of arbitrary events that make up a fight scene. Plot elements arranged exactly (with less content) as they are done with the manga and even the parts that are exposition done in the manga because its just a bunch of colorless still images are replicated EXACTLY the same way as they were in the manga. I've stated on how other threads that this was clearly a missed opportunity for an B movie action classic. Much in the same vein as any Yoshiaki Kawajiri film but it got hindered by a soulless creative staff that knew that people were going to be squeamish about the graphic content and steered away from it as much as possible in both animation/storyboarding/color/character design and editing. The problem being that they didn't understand that the people who were going to hate the series for that kind of stuff were ALWAYS going to hate it no matter how watered down they made the violence. Instead, they should have leaned IN to what made people like it enough to get an anime adaptation so fast in the first place, and not pander to people who cannot differeniate fiction from reality and aim for the audience that are into Ninja Scroll or Afro Samurai etc. The comparisons to Berserk kill me because in terms of scale or how violence is characterized you can't even make a comparison other than the fact that they're both dark fantasies. |
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| Daily reminder there was no rape scene in the goblin slayer anime, I saw no penetration, no genital, no nothing. It was only heavily implied. |
SNDT said: Playcool said: I can say as a first time viewer, you could still remove the rape, and episode 1 woulds still have been brutal. All this discussion, all those buthurted childs just proves the point that this comunity is full of idiotic inmature people that cant hold an argument without going retards. Yeah, I agree, the rape was not the most brutal thing in the episode. So why are you so butthurt about it? You are adressing me right? Rather than being buthurted, I feel insulted by such situation, it precisely just proves many people's point, that this community is full of immature people, and that can be quite harming not just for the whole enviroment here on MAL, but the whole anime medium. If whenever something like GS comes, people keep reacting like this, what does that prove, that alot of the world is just not ready to have shows going in such directions. I liked first episode alot, and while I dont feel confortable to see this whole rape thing IF it is going to keep appearing each episode, I think it is important to also not censor it, saying rape in a series is a no no, it just doesnt work like that... The creator has a view, a direction he wanna follow, let him stay true to that, and inspire others to not be affraid to touch on themes as strong as GS does. What will be next, they will start censoring shit as SnK cuz it is too explicit on violence?! Berserk far from being a rape show, I m still very early on, the whole scene I can recall is MC and that fucking pedo asshole. I know there is alot more of rape ahead, but the reason I m invested in eventually reading more of Berserk is the same here, I feel invested, grounded on the world due to how shocking, raw and unforgiving it is. And I dont want immature pricks to prevent this from keeping happening in the future. |
PlaycoolOct 17, 2018 12:29 AM
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Only_Brad said: Daily reminder there was no rape scene in the goblin slayer anime, I saw no penetration, no genital, no nothing. It was only heavily implied. This post settles down my curiosity. I guess some people are better off watching disney shows. |
papsoshea said: Imagine if that girl who got raped in the beginning didn't just disappear somewhere but retained her status as an important character - expanding upon the idea of dealing with trauma, working through the pain of the past. This is how the rape scene should had been handled imo. Humanizing the victim, giving them actual character traits aside from 'disposable character who gets raped'. Having them deal with the trauma and coming to accept what happened to then actually grow as person is a million times more mature, well written than simply using it to garner controversy. The issue with that is that it would imply the writer actually had enough confidence in the audience to fully comprehend the implications of surviving being kidnapped and raped, and the patience to see important characters actually develop and overcome past traumas, instead of just being edgy kids who liked the rape scene because it was "dark" or something. |
| Eh, just ignore the NPCs. They always say their standard lines then report you if you have the gall to reply with your opinion. Just enjoy the the show. Probably going to be anime of the year for me. |
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Username23489023 said: Eh, just ignore the NPCs. They always say their standard lines then report you if you have the gall to reply with your opinion. Just enjoy the the show. Probably going to be anime of the year for me. I love this whole "anyone who doesn't think exactly like I do is an 'npc' brainless drone". It's peak irony. |
| I just want to state back then in the 90s, it was the first wave of PC culture, we're on the second. The reason there wasn't a big outrage is because anime was lowkey nerd shit. It wasn't mainstream like now. I remember they tried to ban rammstein, kmfdm and dungeons and dragons, because it's offensive, and the work of the devil or something. Now that I think about it, there was a hentai that had all the sjws in a tizzy back then. That got all angry about it because some rapper watched it. It was a pretty good one too. Cannot think of the name, but demons crossed into the human relm and a whole lotta rape. |
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Username23489023 said: I just want to state back then in the 90s, it was the first wave of PC culture, we're on the second. The reason there wasn't a big outrage is because anime was lowkey nerd shit. It wasn't mainstream like now. I remember they tried to ban rammstein, kmfdm and dungeons and dragons, because it's offensive, and the work of the devil or something. Yeah some dude's mom found an issue of Preacher where the kid survives a shotgun suicide attempt and everyone in the comic called him Arseface. The PTA was trying to ban it from comic book stores in our school's area or at the very least put it in a mature section. But like, that store had thousands of single issues and its a pain in the ass to read everyone just to see whether it was safe for kids or not and of course none of the parents were going to help the store owner with that gargantuan task considering how edgy 90s comic books were they would have been at it all decade. Its weird though to see people my age act like 90s Soccer moms though |
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| I agree with the most of what the OP is saying. The rapes in GS and Berserk are not the same. This is why it baffles me how you come to the conclusion that there would be a meltdown regarding Berserk. Like GemTastical points out, it's not like everything that has rape automatically gets hate for it. The problem is simply that GS did it worse than those shows. tl;dr: It's not having rape in a show that causes hate, it's how you do it. |
papsoshea said: The reason why me and many others decided to watch it was to see what the big fuss was about - because everyone was up in arms about the rape scene. For me, the rape scene was the least of its worries. I think people just thought that it was cheap that scene was even in because of how they presented it. Its like watching a war film where the goal was to show the horrors of war, how bad war really is etc... but then to go on and present it as 'war is the coolest shit ever'. The war movies that have done this aren't received well. This is the same for Goblin Slayer. Obviously the show wants to show you how vile and low these creatures are, they kill humans in the most inhumane ways possible - in saying that you don't actually see those adventures get butchered, you just know it's happening because of the screaming and sound effects. But the rape scene on the other hand, you got to see specific things (no genitals), so the reason why people can't take this serious is because we all know rape is one of the lowest acts a person could do, but the show presented it as sexy. If both acts are equal to each other, then why doesn't the show present them equally? This is why its rather shallow, it was use for shock value (and it was bad execution). The rape scene in Goblin Slayer wouldn't come off as cheap if it happened somewhere after a few episodes in and wasn't presented in the manner it was. Let them fully establish that they're a dark series, and not just do it like from the the get go and be like "hey we're a dark series, we are mature, we also have rape!". Girl gets a beating, gets stripped naked, and rape stretches out over a minute from when the hob catches her. They even added a shot of her ass that didn't exist in the manga, then showing it being squeezed. Then you even know the exact moment she's being penetrated, followed by the noises she was making. It's not that including rape in the story is bad, it's that the show lingers too long on it and makes it a fetishistic display. This comes to another point, the amount of manga/light noverl readers who showed their disappointment that it didn't show more or it was too short speaks volumes that many do see it being presented as sexy. Now I get why Goblins take girls prisoners, but the reason its still cheap is because there is no explanation either than, 'its just the way it is'. They rape girls in order to produce more goblins (who can only be male). The last thing is how the show tries to make you feel sympathy for the Goblins after trying to show us how irredeemable they are and... presenting their unforgiving acts as sexy. The part when Goblin Slayer explains why he has to kills the Goblin children, the sad music, the preistess feeling that it is wrong to kill them in that manner etc etc all these things combined together makes it feel like rape is mainly here because it's shock value - its controversial (yes more than murder in the times we live in) and controversy sells. I personally didn't take it serious and I actually laughed a bit at it - it was just stupid. Did it work? Duh! The whole community is talking about it and it actually got more people to watch it. The effects of this is that episode 2 has already aired, yet the community are talking about a little scene that happened in episode 1. And I know many, like myself, felt episode 2 made it crystal clear of the real problems this show has. Most of the backlash is now turning towards Goblin Slayer fans (who many, hyped this series to the moon and back) and how most cannot simply handle any criticism and use the rape scene to counter people who have real criticisms of the show by labelling you a SJW or immature for criticizing things that have nothing to do with that scene. Some other thoughts Bingo. The series' staunchest defenders will be referencing the rape scene from episode 1 and playing the "SJW" card in deflecting criticism of the meandering story-line and cardboard characters well into the season and as the series rating continues to slip. I actually have enjoyed elements of the LN, but the manga is incredibly poor -- and virtually all of its additions seem to contradict the tone or intent of the source material. |
| Harem is the opiate of the Anime fandom masses. |
| I have not watched Goblin Slayer but I have seen the backlash. Although I'm seeing much more people complaining about the backlash than the actual backlash itself. Here's my two cents, chill out and don't worry yourself over the fact that people out there don't agree with you or like the show. And to people who are uncomfortable with the show: just don't watch the damn show. |
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me. |
NthDegree said: I agree with the most of what the OP is saying. The rapes in GS and Berserk are not the same. This is why it baffles me how you come to the conclusion that there would be a meltdown regarding Berserk. SNDT said: Bersek doesn't focus on rape and it's not the point there whilst in the case of GS rape is the calling card. It's THE ONLY reason of it's popularity. Remove rape from GS and no one would give a fuck about this anime. HeroicIdealism said: I love Berserk but I have to admit that the 'edge' of Berserk is one of the reasons why I love it. Yes, including the rape, of which the manga does explicitly show and focus on, many times. The manga doesn't give a damn about your feelings. It will make you feel uncomfortable, it will spit in your face, and to an even greater degree than Goblin Slayer (as far as I can tell from episodes 1 and 2). Not to mention the tens of other explicit rape scenes within the manga. Do you realize how disgusting the Wyald rape scenes are? papsoshea said: The reason why people can't take this serious is because we all know rape is one of the lowest acts a person could do, but the show presented it as sexy. They even added a shot of her ass that didn't exist in the manga, then showing it being squeezed. Then you even know the exact moment she's being penetrated, followed by the noises she was making. It's not that including rape in the story is bad, it's that the show lingers too long on it and makes it a fetishistic display. Now I get why Goblins take girls prisoners, but the reason its still cheap is because there is no explanation either than, 'its just the way it is' Lobinde said: The issue with that is that it would imply the writer actually had enough confidence in the audience to fully comprehend the implications of surviving being kidnapped and raped, and the patience to see important characters actually develop and overcome past traumas, instead of just being edgy kids who liked the rape scene because it was "dark" or something. Somali_Strawhat said: I've stated on how other threads that this was clearly a missed opportunity for an B movie action classic. Much in the same vein as any Yoshiaki Kawajiri film but it got hindered by a soulless creative staff that knew that people were going to be squeamish about the graphic content Just to get this out of the way: when I refer to 'SJWs', I mean ResetEra & Twitter users that react to the mere existence of rape in entertainment as a way to oppress women / #MeToo. I'm not saying everyone that dislikes Goblin Slayer is in one camp and I'm glad this thread has had detailed differing opinions. I am however internally laughing at the people not legitimately traumatised by such things that are soooo disgusted by the series when rape has been done many times, in far more graphic detail, by the most highly regarded manga on this website... which is decades old with multiple adaptations. The thing with Goblin Slayer is that goblins are presented as part of its universe very much like animals are a part of nature in ours. They are not people making choices, and the lore regarding goblins and rules they follow extends beyond GS itself. There is little subjective: females need to be captured for breeding purposes and, in-turn, are hunted by humans. Rape in Berserk is far worse precisely because humans rape by choice. In Berserk female objectification gets taken to another level entirely when the greatest 'fuck you' ever is given to Guts, as one man uses the person he cared for the most as a tool. If that's not enough to get feminists enraged, I don't know what is. And not only that, the rape scene - and others - are sexualised in Berserk to the extent I always believed Miura has a rape fetish. There is writer / artist disconnect in approach, either. As for Berserk not being about rape, whilst GS is, that's a subjective take at best. What is Berserk about after the eclipse, exactly? Why did Miura have a rape scene like that, directed at his main character, even after everyone else was killed? If Berserk is about anything anymore, it's about Guts putting an end to his nemesis, and the point of no return in their relationship that crystalised his hatred was rape. Would people care about Goblin Slayer, without rape? Sure--there just wouldn't be threads like this. My opinion is it would've worked better as a standalone OVA/movie than an on-going series lacking overarching depth. The main draw for me personally - and Heroic I noted - is the protagonist. He's just so... unusually calculated and merciless. His helmet also prevents any... huge-eyed cuteness that is a negative with other characters and provides a stark contrast. He is a breath of fresh air. Even in, say, Overload the lead had to constantly monologue in a goofy, otaku-friendly way. Very few characters are as kill-happy as Guts. Typing of Guts, a lil' fact: Berserk 1997 had an intro ep rather similar in some regards to GS ep1. His face was covered by a hood initially and, rather than by name, he's referred to as 'The Black Swordsman'. He is introduced by saving a girl about to be raped in a bar, by brutally killing two of her three attackers. And then slaughter ensues. There is no doubt in my mind that would be described as 'edgy', if it aired today. There was little to no 'sexing up' of the GS scene. Contrast it with Berserk where nipples, muff, humping and orgasms were included! And the Wylad from-behind part Heroic mentioned. There was a brief shot of the girl being stripped, another shot of her being positioned from behind, a close-up of nails being dug into her to - I assume - symbolise penetration (which was in the manga, fyi), and that was that bar a few cries/an extreme close-up shot of her face. Maybe 20-30 seconds of actual footage? If anything it was censored so as to not be sexualised like it was in the manga with less suggestive angles. The series as a whole has a problem with big tit waifus in revealing attire, which goes against the tone, but I genuinely do not see what else they could have done to adapt the scene more traumatic. And I do not comprehend how someone that knows of Berserk could describe it as a 'fetishistic display'; in the anime at least. Why is it "cheap" for goblins that act the way they were born to? Do not birds and species in our world live and act on instinct, being of lower intellect? I can understand the argument that Goblin Slayer is simplistic, lacks depth, etcetc. It is hardly a favourite of mine. But confusing complexity with enjoyment is another matter entirely. GS does not compare to Berserk because of its narrow, limited focus. This is true. It does however accomplish what it intended with its beginning: to a paint a bleak picture of its world, via the mentality of its protagonist and the naivety of others. And we've not even had enough time to see if it will go deeper, 2eps in! As for the argument about keeping a traumatised girl around for the sake of having a traumatised girl around... what would that add to a dark fantasy series about slaughtering goblins? I mean, the lead character is there to be developed, if he can get over his own trauma that drives the series as he kills goblins. Her character was a means to an end to show what happens to women and those inexperienced that try to help others. A drama about coping with PTSD is not exactly what I'd describe GS as. The irony here is that Berserk's author did keep a traumatised girl around... for something like 30vols as she remained unchanging and childlike whilst the author stalled, not really knowing what to do with her now her role was basically done . This argument could be extended to Berserk's plot, or lack of in general, post-eclipse. I would've loved to have seen a Kawajiri, no-fucks-given reworking of Goblin Slayer. The problem is that would be a different series entirely since GS was clearly created as a LN, with otaku in mind. The era of Kawajiri not pandering to those willing to buy is long since gone, unfortunately. He even tried - and failed - to get the money needed to create Ninja Scroll 2. Anyway, apologies for the mess of a mass-quoted post. I intended to respond with a shortened message covering all bases, rather than one-by-one responses, and ended up typing 10+ paragraphs. This will most likely be my last post in this thread: I felt a need to respond once given I created it, is all. I'll let others discuss the topic. |
AironicallyHumanOct 17, 2018 5:02 PM
| @AironicallyHuman In regards to the beginning of your post... What is a real SJW anyway? The problem with using that term at all is that it can mean whatever you want. It covers everyone from religious conservatives to liberal left-wing to anyone who is not alt-right. This is why I don't think it should be used at all if you intend on having an actually meaningful discussion. 'SJW' nowadays is basically the same as 'cuck': nothing more but a simple insult with no substance. Nothing more, nothing less. Heck, sometimes I call myself SJW just to piss off the people who still take the term seriously. |
| @NthDegree @AironicallyHuman I always just took the term SJW as someone who'll talk the good fight when it comes to ideals but are practically nonexistent when it comes to participating in social systems that can enact any actual positive change. Like Trump haters that don't study their ass off to get into politics or people who just hate all cops but aren't invested enough to be a cop. Again, thats just my interpretation of the term and not anyway indicative of what anyone else thinks, nor do I think that anyone who doesn't like Goblin Slayer to be a SJW. Some people have different sensitivities and I'm of the opinion that to each their own as long as no one is advocating some opinion that liking or disliking a series makes them a worse or lesser person. However, I will say that although a Kawajiri or Koike or Araki directed real deal edgefest would be a totally different aesthetic from the source material I don't think that would in and of itself make it any less Goblin Slayer. Most people love the Ghost in the Shell 90s movie despite it looking/feeling like nothing from Shirow's manga. And I'd say that that's because Oshii had a vision on how to convey the message found within GitS and enhance its appeal as to make it something that only animation would be able to do. The reason why I mentioned those directors is because they'd probably would have had the best chance at capitalizing at what makes Goblin Slayer's base appeal beloved by fans (kinetic over the top fight scenes interspersed with lighthearted DnD fun) and translate it into something that you could only get from the anime and not the LN or the manga. Because you're right, a lot of otaku get mad when things get changed from the manga even a little bit but at the same time I think there is a large market of both anime and non anime fans that just like well animated, well choreographed/storyboarded action series. Would it be more expensive than what we're getting now? Most certainly. But I don't think the risk of making back a profit on GS would be that high considering how most of what I find Goblin Slayer entertaining is what I find the Punisher entertaining. And the Punisher is going through a worldwide revival recently. And not jist any Punisher either! We're talking hyperviolent Garth Ennis Punisher! Seasonal anime fans would drool if GS was given that kind of irreverant rework. I have no idea why Ninja Scroll 2 wasn't able to achieve funding but thats a damn shame. However, and this isn't an indictment on Ninja Scroll (because duh thats a classic) but I'd say at the moment Goblin Slayer is just more popular at the moment. You'd be surprised how many changes people are willing to tolerate if they remain consistently entertained week to week. Especially if the goal of the studio (which should be the goal of every studio producing anime) was to outshine any anime that they are sharing a season with in every episode. However thats a hypithetical borne out of optimism towards ghe state of thr anime community and could be easily argued against. |
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Somali_Strawhat said: @NthDegree @AironicallyHuman I always just took the term SJW as someone who'll talk the good fight when it comes to ideals but are practically nonexistent when it comes to participating in social systems that can enact any actual positive change. Like Trump haters that don't study their ass off to get into politics or people who just hate all cops but aren't invested enough to be a cop. Again, thats just my interpretation of the term and not anyway indicative of what anyone else thinks, nor do I think that anyone who doesn't like Goblin Slayer to be a SJW. Some people have different sensitivities and I'm of the opinion that to each their own as long as no one is advocating some opinion that liking or disliking a series makes them a worse or lesser person. However, I will say that although a Kawajiri or Koike or Araki directed real deal edgefest would be a totally different aesthetic from the source material I don't think that would in and of itself make it any less Goblin Slayer. Most people love the Ghost in the Shell 90s movie despite it looking/feeling like nothing from Shirow's manga. And I'd say that that's because Oshii had a vision on how to convey the message found within GitS and enhance its appeal as to make it something that only animation would be able to do. The reason why I mentioned those directors is because they'd probably would have had the best chance at capitalizing at what makes Goblin Slayer's base appeal beloved by fans (kinetic over the top fight scenes interspersed with lighthearted DnD fun) and translate it into something that you could only get from the anime and not the LN or the manga. Because you're right, a lot of otaku get mad when things get changed from the manga even a little bit but at the same time I think there is a large market of both anime and non anime fans that just like well animated, well choreographed/storyboarded action series. Would it be more expensive than what we're getting now? Most certainly. But I don't think the risk of making back a profit on GS would be that high considering how most of what I find Goblin Slayer entertaining is what I find the Punisher entertaining. And the Punisher is going through a worldwide revival recently. And not jist any Punisher either! We're talking hyperviolent Garth Ennis Punisher! Seasonal anime fans would drool if GS was given that kind of irreverant rework. I have no idea why Ninja Scroll 2 wasn't able to achieve funding but thats a damn shame. However, and this isn't an indictment on Ninja Scroll (because duh thats a classic) but I'd say at the moment Goblin Slayer is just more popular at the moment. You'd be surprised how many changes people are willing to tolerate if they remain consistently entertained week to week. Especially if the goal of the studio (which should be the goal of every studio producing anime) was to outshine any anime that they are sharing a season with in every episode. However thats a hypithetical borne out of optimism towards ghe state of thr anime community and could be easily argued against. The truth of the matter is that "SJW" has become almost as ubiquitous and useless a term as "alt-right" -- it's almost entirely used as a slur against someone with differing politics or even a single differing perspective on an issue. There are plenty of people who are uncomfortable with rape due to shit that happened to them in their personal life who dropped the series because of it. To call them "SJWs" for exercising their freedom to watch what they want to watch would be laughable. I'd argue the contingent actively crusading online against Goblin Slayer because "no fiction should include rape" is far, far smaller that many would believe. |
| Harem is the opiate of the Anime fandom masses. |
ZedClodRaker said: Somali_Strawhat said: @NthDegree @AironicallyHuman I always just took the term SJW as someone who'll talk the good fight when it comes to ideals but are practically nonexistent when it comes to participating in social systems that can enact any actual positive change. Like Trump haters that don't study their ass off to get into politics or people who just hate all cops but aren't invested enough to be a cop. Again, thats just my interpretation of the term and not anyway indicative of what anyone else thinks, nor do I think that anyone who doesn't like Goblin Slayer to be a SJW. Some people have different sensitivities and I'm of the opinion that to each their own as long as no one is advocating some opinion that liking or disliking a series makes them a worse or lesser person. The truth of the matter is that "SJW" has become almost as ubiquitous and useless a term as "alt-right" -- it's almost entirely used as a slur against someone with differing politics or even a single differing perspective on an issue. There are plenty of people who are uncomfortable with rape due to shit that happened to them in their personal life who dropped the series because of it. To call them "SJWs" for exercising their freedom to watch what they want to watch would be laughable. I'd argue the contingent actively crusading online against Goblin Slayer because "no fiction should include rape" is far, far smaller that many would believe. When you're literally preaching to the choir who was asked by another user to define SJW in my own terms... |
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Somali_Strawhat said: ZedClodRaker said: The truth of the matter is that "SJW" has become almost as ubiquitous and useless a term as "alt-right" -- it's almost entirely used as a slur against someone with differing politics or even a single differing perspective on an issue. There are plenty of people who are uncomfortable with rape due to shit that happened to them in their personal life who dropped the series because of it. To call them "SJWs" for exercising their freedom to watch what they want to watch would be laughable. I'd argue the contingent actively crusading online against Goblin Slayer because "no fiction should include rape" is far, far smaller that many would believe. When you're literally preaching to the choir who was asked by another user to define SJW in my own terms... You may get it -- there countless people here who absolutely do not. |
| Harem is the opiate of the Anime fandom masses. |
| Well if its anything like the manga then I dislike it because of its simplict reptetitiveness. Goblins rape and murder goblin slayer slays goblin repeat formula and watch as people praise it for being "original." At this point i cant really care about any of the characters if the auther is going to use them as disposables every single time. Its like akame ga kill all over again why should I even care? |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| The anime I was thinking of earlier was Urotsukidoji: Legend of the Overfiend. I cannot recall the name of the rapper, but he said something like, "I was smoking weed and watching overfiend" in an interview. Then they looked into what overfiend was. That would be a 90s SJW parallel to Goblin Slayer. 90s were just more badass I guess. Overfiend and Berserk outclass pretty much anything coming out now. Even the school shootings were cooler. Trench Coat Mafia with goths armed with tec9s taking out jocks and preps vs retarded guys with big ears shooting elementary kids. Where did we go wrong. |
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| @papsoshea Your post is why I keep mentioning how pointless the comparisons between Berserk and Goblin Slayer are since other than the fact that they share a same genre nothing else is even remotely similar. However, I would like to add a caveat that the rape scenes in GS although explotative and used for the purposes of shocking the audience didn't necessarily feel as if it was done so to convey a tone of eroticism. That's more of a difference in what people get aroused by. Does the fact that Goblins in this narrative have no females capable of procreation seem like a way for the writer to include rape scenes? Yes. But again, if we look at this series as what it's trying to go for which Kumo the creator states is something more akin to Western comic books like the Punisher with the flavor of Record of Lodoss War high fantasy settings than its clear that the whole purpose of this series wasn't supposed to engage its audience with its complex and morally ambigious antagonists or philosophical depth. Its an action grindhouse set in Middle Earth. What's the depth of the Punisher? Not much tbh. What about most grindhouse flicks? Again, not much. This is one of those cases where people are noticing that this series is going for style over substance and are levying the intention as a critique when the actual criticism should be going towards whether or not that style of action was conveyed well in animation to entertain its audience. Similar to how no one complains about the hostorical inaccuracies of Inglorieus Basterds and Django Unchained to their real world atmosphere, trying to judge whether or not Goblin Slayer achieved a sense of thematic depth and realistic depictions of post rape trauma is to miss the forest for the trees. Thats not to say I have no issues with the atmosphere presented in GS l, and this stretches across all mediums. The idea of how goblins are widely ignored due to tue over exertion of the conventional army's campaign against a demon king feels like a cheap excuse when we don't see any effects on any conceivable level. All I'd need to not break my immersion in that regard was to see people forcibly conscripted into the military or people complaining about high taxes or something. This is also lost in the visuals as the vibe of the setting is as peaceful in town areas like it is in Konosuba. I know there is a plot point later in the manga that contradicts this statement but I mean that in times of peace people feel way too lax to feel like they live in a world where a Demon King and his army are supposed to be taken as a real threat. Berserk 1997 starts the anime in a tattered village and establishes Guts as apathetic as hell when he's walking through a rain storm and doesn't even bother to look up on at a passing wagon filled with children being sold into slavery. Before anything else that already sold me on its setting on a audio/visual level. People like @hazarddex have also been criticizng on how if it was just Goblin Slayer killing goblins for 12 episodes then it would get boring and again, I'd have to disagree. Its not about what is being depicted as so much how its being depicted in terms of an action sequence. This is where Goblin Slayer is most lacking as none of these fights are above mediocre if you compare them to series that had the same intention going forward. Formulaic series are usually the most popular for the style in which the formula is presented. You only need to look at Dr.Black Jack, Golgo 13, Lupin III and Detective Conan to see how people are underestimating the appeal of art that favors style over substance. Goblin Slayer like the Punisher has an appeal towards those who enjoy tactical strategies climaxing in hyperviolent action sequences. Garth Ennis' run on the Punisher was used in Daredevil season 2 and his spin off series and I'd say the only reason why it was picked up ny Netflix at all was because of those elemnts and not despite it. This is again, an issue as to whether or not Goblin Slayer visually communicates tactical and strategic understanding of his environment and his knowledge of Goblin behavior to exploit them in hyperviolent well animated action sequences. I'd say no, it doesn't. The editing in the sequences constantly makes events in a fight feel disjointed and doesn't allow the audience (or me at least) any of the catharsis of any point of impact lingering on screen for very long before cutting to the next shot of GS fighting another Goblin. There isn't any down time before a fight to see GS form a strategy by looking at his surroundings either and it just feels like a cold series of events told in an arbitrary sequence, and not a choregraphed fight scene of a desperate struggle to survive in an enclosed area using anything to your advantage. The manga does fare better at the latter, but the problem I had with the manga was that Kurose tended to clutter his panel compositon with unecessary sfx's that don't signal the reader to any focus point and felt meaningless or swooshing speed lines that would've been served in larger panels. In animation however these cathartic points of the fight where we're supposed to be cheering cut away so fast and feel anticlimatic. The gasoline bundle of goblins, the spear landing in the goblin shaman and the torch to one goblin's face are perfect examples of bad storyboarding. Depicting rape for shock value is rather trashy but no less trashy or gratuitous as it is in real life. The only issue from this series however, was that it was a mediocre action series while also containing a rape scene. And thats not so much an issue with the potential of its source material as it is a problem with how the anime industry just approaches adaptations in general, especially from LNs. |
Somali_StrawhatOct 18, 2018 8:45 AM
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| Do the female goblins rape the human males? If not, then something is obviously wrong with this show. |
azula-is-gay said: Do the female goblins rape the human males? If not, then something is obviously wrong with this show. According to the author there are only male goblins. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
hazarddex said: azula-is-gay said: Do the female goblins rape the human males? If not, then something is obviously wrong with this show. According to the author there are only male goblins. Of fucking course. I'm rolling my eyes |
azula-is-gay said: Do the female goblins rape the human males? If not, then something is obviously wrong with this show. Wait, what the fuck is this logic? I really hope you are just trolling. Do you think viking women went on raids to rape males back in the day? Compare goblins to any other type of "rape and pillage" culture that really existed in the world, and it makes sense. Believe it or not, men and women are not the same. I don't know if you are a SJW or a master troll, but if it is the latter then I applaud you because you got me. |
| Reading through this thread there seem to be two conversations going on here. Some people detailing why the rape scene in episode one felt uninspired and lame compared to (berserk, insert other dark anime that handled it better) and people deflecting going "SJWs tho." Maybe try addressing each other's points instead of just screaming over each other. Particularly the ones using SJWs to deflect criticism. Granted there were some puritans getting in a fuss over it, but that's already pretty much died down. I hardly see most people on twitter even giving Goblin Slayer any attention when a new ep comes out or even in general. So those people have already gotten bored of their faux outrage. But most other people just seem to find that the anime's just not very good for various reasons. Their opinions, of course. Like I said before. I like Goblin Slayer myself. But I approach it as a mindless gorefest anime with a badass character design. I don't try to hail it as something deeper because it's really not. It's very narrative is shaped around GS' limited worldview. A self imposed limited worldview where if Goblins aren't involved, it just doesn't matter to him. And a such, does not matter to the story as a whole. Can it get repetitive? Yes? But that's by design, not because the writer is just bad at writing. Is it GOOD writing? You'd have to decide that for yourself. I do have my gripes with how the author took a vast world and narrowed it down to the scale of like.. a single city narratively. But it WORKS with Goblin Slayer's character so I can sort of forgive him for it, even if it's not some kind of masterpiece. To begin with, stop comparing it to Berserk. It will never be berserk. Berserk focuses on character driven stories with various plot twists and long term effects to people's actions. The consequences of their actions actively shape the story. Goblin Slayer just wants to bash a baby Goblin's head in. Let him bash the baby Goblin's head in for fuck's sake. |
| Labelling everyone, who happens to dislike Goblin Slayer, as "SJW" or "snowflake" isn't helpful of course. On the other hand, regarding persons who seem to have a personal vendetta against GS, like I said in another thread, if the shoe fits, wear it. Both sides need to take a chill pill. Regarding comparisons with Berserk: it's as if some never watched another (dark) fantasy anime. It's Madoka Magica and magical girl anime all over again. |
TheBigGuyNov 1, 2018 2:08 PM
| You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi  |
| It is saddening the lack of mature individuals in the modern era. With my strongest desires, I hope they grow. MonkeyDJasper said: Berserk uses rape in the correct way , we see the psychological effects , GS just used it one episode to be edgy and we don’t see it again . We never see raped victims and how they deal with the trauma . Berserk is actually a good story I am fond of Berserk but in the first episodes of Goblin Slayer it shows and explains exactly this. The numerous victims being carted away and how their trauma causes them to join either religious communes or commit suicide. A terrible fate indeed inflicted by terrible creatures and the protagonist's righteousness in what most in his world would describe as an odd dedication and commitment to their extermination. |
| {~𝕸𝖊𝖓 𝖔𝖋 𝕮𝖚𝖑𝖙𝖚𝖗𝖊 𝖉𝖔 𝖓𝖔𝖙 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝕱𝖔𝖗𝖚𝖒 𝕾𝖎𝖌𝖓𝖆𝖙𝖚𝖗𝖊𝖘~} |
MonkeyDJasper said: Berserk uses rape in the correct way , we see the psychological effects , GS just used it one episode to be edgy and we don’t see it again . We never see raped victims and how they deal with the trauma . Berserk is actually a good story GS is just like Berserk troll arc. The rape is only here to potray how bad those creature are. That’s why anime version only show one rape. It wasn’t used for developments or NTR fetish. |
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