Hatred said: We aren't comparing single persons; we're comparing whole species with each other, though. That's like saying that to yourself only you yourself or your self can be your best friend.Noboru said: Not a problem; it makes for a big difference whether you only mean a single person or the whole humanity. However, if you know that "man" stands for "human", what other species do you think is man's best friend, then? only the human species can be a man's best friend imo |
Hatred said: Yes, but I was asking you about which other species can be the best friends of humans. That single persons do well with single persons of their own nature is fairly obvious.Noboru said: We aren't comparing single persons; we're comparing whole species with each other, though. That's like saying that to yourself only you yourself or your self can be your best friend. no i'm saying another human being can be my best friend,same goes for everyone else |
Noboru said: ouch. That is clearly not what healthy means in this context. When you say "healthy relationship", you don't mean healthy in the sense of physical health. The whole criticizing of loyalty without getting enough back is acting very much against one of the most important German values: "Treue" (loyalty/fidelity, related to "true"). It's mentioned i.a. in the song of the Germans, other songs and in our own national epic that loyalty is a noble characteristic and it's not a coincidence that "German shepherds" stand for loyalty like no other dogs. If you have a partner who is sick unto death, you cannot have a healthy relationship with them and thus according to the original poster, we should just dump them. And I don't doubt that dogs are loyal. In the same vein, a programmed robot is loyal, and a traumatized, socially isolated girlfriend who you abused for 5 years and who has only you to live for now might be loyal too. What is loyalty if it doesn't depend on your character? Would you want your partner to stay loyal to you if you treat them like shit? Only if you're a narcissist and you don't think that your actions should have consequences. Unconditional loyalty, just like unconditional love, is something that you shouldn't aspire to. It's a horrible thing, and it's exactly what people seek when they try to fill the gaping hole in their lives with a dog. Again, the same pattern shows itself. If it's detached from your character and your actions, it stops being worthwhile. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
Hatred said: That sounds quite lonelyno other species,obviously that's what i have been implying since my first comment on this thread Railey2 said: Then tell me what "healthy" relationship you can have with someone who is in a comma. You won't be able to get anything but misery out of it.When you say "healthy relationship", you don't mean healthy in the sense of physical health. Railey2 said: In this case, loyalty means for her to stop me from treating her like shit, because she would stay loyal to my normal self and not to my bad self. As such, she would even go against my bad self just to bring back my normal self.What is loyalty if it doesn't depend on your character? Would you want your partner to stay loyal to you if you treat them like shit? |
| What about parents that buy a pet for their children? |
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| I think the general reason dogs are considered man`s best friend is partly due to dog`s lacking the ability to be unloyal. It is more a case of "unconditional love" as being a romanticized idea of absolute devotion and loyalty which just is not true for a vast majority of relationships. Emotions often tend to waver. |
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| But, "true love" doesn't last, in most cases. The great thing about unconditional love is that it'll always be there. You never have to worry about whether your dog is suddenly going to turn on you one day, or start disliking you, because it won't. (Unless you do something to it that makes it lose its trust, like physically abusing it, but honestly, even then, it comes crawling to you if you call for it). The sound of true love is just pathetic, because at some point, it always ends up fading away, bit by bit. Just because love is unconditional, doesn't mean that it can't be lost. Like I said, if you do something horrible, like killing someone's mother in front of their eyes, of course the love would disappear. The thought of unconditional love doesn't mean it's ever-lasting, it just means that you'll receive it without having to do anything for it, and that's what is beautiful about it. You don't have to satisfy anyone's needs or do certain things to win their love, you'll simply receive it by being yourself. You probably never had a dog (I assume), otherwise you would know how wonderful it feels to come home from a tough day, and get showered with love from your dog. With a partner, that might not happen. Some days they'll just be rude, other days they might be nice, it's so inconsistent. I like to know what there is to expect, and love is so unpredictable. Saying you have to focus on improving yourself to be able to have all the things you mentioned, just doesn't make sense. A lot of people who own a dog already have a partner they are married to. They're able to have both unconditional love and "true love". To be honest, personally I like unconditional love A LOT more, because it never hurts you. There's a security in it, and it makes you feel safe. No matter how shitty you look, how bad you smell, or anything others might find disgusting about you/dislike you for, your dog won't. It sees past appearance, past this and that. It loves you for you, and that is beautiful. |
Noboru said: You can't have a relationship with someone who is in a coma, that's ridiculous. How do you have a relationship with someone who is unresponsive? Hatred said: That sounds quite lonelyno other species,obviously that's what i have been implying since my first comment on this thread Railey2 said: Then tell me what "healthy" relationship you can have with someone who is in a comma. You won't be able to get anything but misery out of it.When you say "healthy relationship", you don't mean healthy in the sense of physical health. Railey2 said: In this case, loyalty means for her to stop me from treating her like shit, because she would stay loyal to my normal self and not to my bad self. As such, she would even go against my bad self just to bring back my normal self.What is loyalty if it doesn't depend on your character? Would you want your partner to stay loyal to you if you treat them like shit? When you said "sick unto death", I was thinking of cancer or something, as one would. Are you just trolling? And yes, you should break up and move on with your life if your partner is in a coma for longer than a year. I'd be shocked if I woke up after 4 years in a coma, and my girlfriend was still there with me. That'd be beyond sad. I'm not so selfish that I demand shit like that from others, when I know that they have their own lives to live. Anyway, I too could just go ahead and twist words to mean what I want them to mean, just like you did with "loyalty" here, but I'm not gonna do that because unlike you I'm not leading dishonest arguments. Try this: Being loyal means to be devoted to someone, to support what they do and do what they ask of you. It's a feeling of support, that's the definition of loyalty. You can't just take it to mean the exact opposite because it fits your argument. If you're loyal to a king, it means that you follow your kings orders. If the king turns into a tyrant and asks you to round up all peasants and have every 5th one killed, you stop being loyal if you refuse. You might be loyal to some ideal of the king that you have in your head, which is why you refuse, but you are not loyal to the king, since you rejected his order and stopped supporting his cause. Similarly, you are loyal to your partner if you stick with them and support their idea of what your relationship should be like. If I'm an abusive piece of shit, and my main objective in my relationship is to abuse you, being loyal to me would entail letting that happen. If you're not loyal, you would try to go against me, or you'd straight up leave - which is the right thing to do. In other words, loyalty can be very bad. Being unconditionally loyal would entail supporting whatever I do, just like unconditional loyalty to a king would entail rounding up the peasants and killing every 5th, when he asks that of you. Unconditional loyalty, like the one dogs show, is again, worthless. There is also a second definition of loyalty, where it just means "faithful", but that wasn't what I was talking about, since we were talking about dogs in the first place. Get it? Loyalty doesn't just mean "whatever feels right LUL", that's stupid. "In this case, loyalty means for her to stop me from treating her like shit", no it doesn't. If it can mean that, it could literally mean anything. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
xAlionnnn said: The definition of "Unconditional love" is "love, no matter what". But, "true love" doesn't last, in most cases. The great thing about unconditional love is that it'll always be there. You never have to worry about whether your dog is suddenly going to turn on you one day, or start disliking you, because it won't. (Unless you do something to it that makes it lose its trust, like physically abusing it, but honestly, even then, it comes crawling to you if you call for it). The sound of true love is just pathetic, because at some point, it always ends up fading away, bit by bit. Just because love is unconditional, doesn't mean that it can't be lost. Like I said, if you do something horrible, like killing someone's mother in front of their eyes, of course the love would disappear. The thought of unconditional love doesn't mean it's ever-lasting, it just means that you'll receive it without having to do anything for it, and that's what is beautiful about it. You don't have to satisfy anyone's needs or do certain things to win their love, you'll simply receive it by being yourself. You probably never had a dog (I assume), otherwise you would know how wonderful it feels to come home from a tough day, and get showered with love from your dog. With a partner, that might not happen. Some days they'll just be rude, other days they might be nice, it's so inconsistent. I like to know what there is to expect, and love is so unpredictable. Saying you have to focus on improving yourself to be able to have all the things you mentioned, just doesn't make sense. A lot of people who own a dog already have a partner they are married to. They're able to have both unconditional love and "true love". To be honest, personally I like unconditional love A LOT more, because it never hurts you. There's a security in it, and it makes you feel safe. No matter how shitty you look, how bad you smell, or anything others might find disgusting about you/dislike you for, your dog won't. It sees past appearance, past this and that. It loves you for you, and that is beautiful. Maybe it can fade on it's own, but the core idea of it is that it's decoupled from your character and actions, actions such as killing someones mother. If unconditional love is affected by that, it's not really unconditional - it would have the condition of you not being a mother-killing murderer. If it has that condition, it's not unconditional. Look at the graph again:  From left to right: A robot has no conditions, because he is programmed to do what he does. It is decoupled from your actions and character, perfect unconditionality. Young girls that worship celebrities also often do so mostly unconditionally. They don't even know the celebrity, and they keep worshipping the celebrity even if the celebrity does some horrible shit. The devotion they feel is mostly decoupled from the celebrities character (since they don't even know the celebrities character), and the celebrities actions. Dogs love you even if you treat them horribly. Go figure. Teenage relatioships are horribly shallow and only depend on peoples character to a small degree, compared to adult relationships. Looks are often more important. And then you have normal relationships and mature relationships, where your character and actions are a central point of focus. See how the value of the relationship increases when relationships are tied to your character and actions more strongly? Grey-Zone said: I think dogs are an excellent tool to teach your children a lot of discipline and responsibility, assuming you have them take care of it.What about parents that buy a pet for their children? |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| Dogs simply suffer from Stockholm syndrome. Completely understandable, considering how they're leashed, trained, disciplined and provided for. I never bought into the love or wanted one. |
| i didnt read your thread but just wanted to post that i dont like dogs in general. They are fucking noisy,keep barking like fucks.They are kinda dangerous like...just go and make eye contact with a any street dog and see what happens. i like cats more..though they are nasty too like hair balls and smelly poop...uhh |
Sonal1988 said: I mean, I'd rather have a dog's unconditional "love" than a human's, bc no dog (or cow or pig) has ever betrayed me, as opposed to humans who seem to be dying to show me how trashy they are. @J_LEE_C I couldn't agree more. I'd have a lot more to say in response to this ridiculous thread but I don't want to get banned again. |
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| Humans' best friend is their own dark side, not other human, dog, cat, or any other creatures. |
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| Having a sense of companionship with a dog isn't unconditional. While the dog may lack thought you still provide the creature its most basic and instinctual needs. In return, you get something of value(companionship). It might not be like friendships with another humans but it doesn't mean it's not something of value. |
CapitalistGod said: from my opening post:Having a sense of companionship with a dog isn't unconditional. While the dog may lack thought you still provide the creature its most basic and instinctual needs. In return, you get something of value(companionship). It might not be like friendships with another humans but it doesn't mean it's not something of value. Railey2 said: Of course dogs don't love you completely unconditionally. You can beat the shit out of a dog until it hates and fears you, that's not my point. The point is that the love that a dog feels for a human has a degree of unconditionality so high, that it stops being meaningful. J_LEE_C said: Sonal1988 said: I mean, I'd rather have a dog's unconditional "love" than a human's, bc no dog (or cow or pig) has ever betrayed me, as opposed to humans who seem to be dying to show me how trashy they are. @J_LEE_C I couldn't agree more. I'd have a lot more to say in response to this ridiculous thread but I don't want to get banned again. If interacting with other people IRL only brings you pain, then that shows us something. You're either a trashy person yourself, which explains why your relationships with other humans are trashy, or you're just a horrible judge of character and as a result spend time with people who are no good. Your response to that is retreat. And while you're busy escaping into the anime world and rationalizing your pain away, you've found that you're unable to have proper relationships with other human beings, so you're turning to animals instead. I have one word for that: Pathetic. This thread is for you, it's exactly for people like you. If you find yourself preferring dogs over humans, you have completely failed as a social actor. Prove me wrong, J_LEE_C. You have 1,333 completed anime in your list, you think I can't tell what your social life is like? @Sonal1988 same thing for you, having completed 1,495 manga. We can all tell, it's out in the open after all. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| My family has owned a dog almost at all times since my birth. When one died, it took us no longer than six months to get a new one. As such, I have a hard time comprehending the point behind your argument. A dog relies upon its owner to take care of it until its dying day, much like any other pet imaginable. Having a pet, if there are young children in the family, teaches them responsibility, and the pet - especially if it's a dog - can provide comfort during hard times, even if it can't speak human language. Of course that's not to say that a pet is a substitute for human relationships, but it's still a great friend on its own merits. It doesn't bully you, it doesn't spread your secrets around, and it certainly doesn't cut you out of its life without warning. And you're saying that a dog isn't man's best friend for those same reasons? Or am I missing something? |
Railey2 said: The definition of "Unconditional love" is "love, no matter what". Maybe it can fade on it's own, but the core idea of it is that it's decoupled from your character and actions, actions such as killing someones mother. If unconditional love is affected by that, it's not really unconditional - it would have the condition of you not being a mother-killing murderer. If it has that condition, it's not unconditional. I explained in another post this is a missuse of the expression. It's not intended to take the literal meaning. It's meant to be selfless love. Young girls that worship celebrities also often do so mostly unconditionally. They don't even know the celebrity, and they keep worshipping the celebrity even if the celebrity does some horrible shit. The devotion they feel is mostly decoupled from the celebrities character (since they don't even know the celebrities character), and the celebrities actions. Now you're confusing infatuation for love. It could be argued to be a type of love but it's a love not of the actual person but the fantasy version of them. |
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traed said: Railey2 said: The definition of "Unconditional love" is "love, no matter what". Maybe it can fade on it's own, but the core idea of it is that it's decoupled from your character and actions, actions such as killing someones mother. If unconditional love is affected by that, it's not really unconditional - it would have the condition of you not being a mother-killing murderer. If it has that condition, it's not unconditional. I explained in another post this is a missuse of the expression. It's not intended to take the literal meaning. It's meant to be selfless love. Young girls that worship celebrities also often do so mostly unconditionally. They don't even know the celebrity, and they keep worshipping the celebrity even if the celebrity does some horrible shit. The devotion they feel is mostly decoupled from the celebrities character (since they don't even know the celebrities character), and the celebrities actions. Now you're confusing infatuation for love. It could be argued to be a type of love but it's a love not of the actual person but the fantasy version of them. I'm not only talking about love here, this is about all sorts of relationships. The core idea is, again, that the worth of a relationship (be it a friendship, a loving relationship, or an infatuation) depends on how closely it is tied to the characters and actions of the participating actors. Celebrity worship/infatuation is worthless for this exact reason: The person that is infatuated usually doesn't even know the celebrity, so how could you call that a meaningful relationship? Exactly. You don't. The infatuation they feel isn't tied to what the celebrity does, or who the celebrity is as a person. Justin Bieber spat on his fans and they still loved him. The feelings that his fangirls have for him are decoupled his actions. I'm not confusing anything here, the argument merely applies to it all: Love, infatuation, friendship, loyalty, you name it. Similarly, a dogs feelings for its owner are decoupled. You kick it, forget to feed it, ignore it for a week.. and the dog still loves you. This is why that love is not worth anything, and why willingly seeking out such a relationship to fulfill a social need, is a sign of social retardation. But back to your other point. Am I using the wrong definition of "unconditional"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconditional_love "Unconditional love is known as affection without any limitations, or love without conditions. This term is sometimes associated with other terms such as true altruism or complete love. Each area of expertise has a certain way of describing unconditional love, but most will agree that it is that type of love which has no bounds and is unchanging. [...] Some authors make a distinction between unconditional love and conditional love. In conditional love: love is 'earned' on the basis of conscious or unconscious conditions being met by the lover, whereas in unconditional love, love is "given freely" to the loved one "no matter what"." Clearly not. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's decoupled love, and it's pathetic. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| Dogs are among the top 5 animals that kill people according to numbers. They're up there with mosquitoes, the absolute cancer of this world. Let that sink in. |
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Railey2 said: I'm not only talking about love here, this is about all sorts of relationships. So was I. The core idea is, again, that the worth of a relationship (be it a friendship, a loving relationship, or an infatuation) depends on how closely it is tied to the characters and actions of the participating actors. You're just describing relationships in general. Nothing profound about that. Celebrity worship/infatuation is worthless for this exact reason: The person that is infatuated usually doesn't even know the celebrity, so how could you call that a meaningful relationship? Exactly. You don't. The infatuation they feel isn't tied to what the celebrity does, or who the celebrity is as a person. Justin Bieber spat on his fans and they still loved him. The feelings that his fangirls have for him are decoupled his actions. I'm not confusing anything here, the argument merely applies to it all: Love, infatuation, friendship, loyalty, you name it. This isn't entirely true. Sometimes people love celebrities exactly for what they do. This happens more with musicians. Maybe a musician made some music that really connected to this person and helped them out. Is this not meaningful? It's not a personal relationship or unconditional mind you but the relationship between a musician and their fans can be of value for both sides. Similarly, a dogs feelings for its owner are decoupled. You kick it, forget to feed it, ignore it for a week.. and the dog still loves you. This is why that love is not worth anything, and why willingly seeking out such a relationship to fulfill a social need, is a sign of social retardation. If you kick a dog they wont love you they will probably maul you given a chance where they think they don't need you anymore. But back to your other point. Am I using the wrong definition of "unconditional"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconditional_love "Unconditional love is known as affection without any limitations, or love without conditions. This term is sometimes associated with other terms such as true altruism or complete love. Each area of expertise has a certain way of describing unconditional love, but most will agree that it is that type of love which has no bounds and is unchanging. [...] Some authors make a distinction between unconditional love and conditional love. In conditional love: love is 'earned' on the basis of conscious or unconscious conditions being met by the lover, whereas in unconditional love, love is "given freely" to the loved one "no matter what"." Clearly not. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's decoupled love, and it's pathetic. There is two meanings of unconditional love. One is more akin to universal love and the other is more about selfless love. Even in the case of a universal love such love doesn't automatically mean they will stick around in abusive relationship or something otherwise it's closer to infatuation or fear induced denial or Stockholm syndrome. Universal love is love for all humanity or all life. Selfless love is loving someone for who they are not what they do for you so the love lasts even if there is no return other than the enjoyment of the love itself and the enjoyment of the subject of this love. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| @Railey2 Dogs are animals and they act on instinct. The affection they give their owners is a result of said instinct of a domesticated animal. It is by no means unconditional. Heck, it's actually misguidedto use human standards of love here. |
SadMadoka said: cats > humans > dogs This is my preference in terms of how I like them overall. They each serve their own purposes. :> I don't see any as a replacement for another, but cats give me a magical type of satisfaction I can't get anywhere else. cats > literally anything else at all |
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CapitalistGod said: @Railey2 Dogs are animals and they act on instinct. The affection they give their owners is a result of said instinct of a domesticated animal. It is by no means unconditional. @traed I already agreed to that. I said as much in the opening post. I'm saying it's unconditional enough for it to not be meaningful. Are people just trying to deliberately misunderstand or am I really being this unclear? Here again: YES, ITS NOT COMPLETELY UNCONDITIONAL. BUT ON THE SCALE OF UNCONDITIONALITY, ITS TOO HIGH UP TO BE WORTHWHILE You can really fuck up with a dog before it actually starts hating you, one kick doesn't do it. And no, I'm not speaking from experience. Can we stop with this now? @traed regarding celebrity worship, use this as a reference. That's what I mean. See why I ranked it so low? Beyond that, I'm not interested in playing semantic games with you. I pulled up wikipedia and showed you the definition. That is what I'm talking about. The concept of selflessness is irrelevant here. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| @Railey2 Point is that it's actually misguided to compare friendships with humans and companionship with dogs. They're different and trying to use human standards of unconditionality on dogs is pointless. |
Railey2 said: Lunafleurette said: what part about it is mental gymnastics?While blindly unconditional love is certainly unwise, I don't care enough to put up with your mental gymnastics. here, I made this little thing, it should help with understanding the core idea of this thread. I also added a tl;dr I think, at the very least, the dog one ought to be swapped with the "teenage romance" one. |
Railey2 said: Of course you can! Something like that can happen if you feel very close to someone that you never want to leave them. You probably wouldn't leave your family members either if they were in a coma, or would you? Also, being in a coma is just an additional example for a love where you cannot get anything out of it. At least, there's some more hope that they can get out of it compared to those, who are mortally ill. You can't have a relationship with someone who is in a coma, that's ridiculous. How do you have a relationship with someone who is unresponsive? Being loyal means to be devoted to someone, to support what they do and do what they ask of you. It's a feeling of support, that's the definition of loyalty. You can't just take it to mean the exact opposite because it fits your argument. But if you want to truly support someone, you sometimes have to act against their decisions for the better. In that case, you're still loyal to them, you just don't take blind loyalty to follow everything they say, but rather look behind what they say and try to fulfill their actual wishes.There is also a second definition of loyalty, where it just means "faithful", but that wasn't what I was talking about, since we were talking about dogs in the first place. To be fair, I'm having my problems in recognizing the semantic difference between being "loyal" and being "faithful". I know that the former is mostly used in the context of dogs and soldiers, while the latter is more used for (love) relationships, but in a sense, both mean to stand by the respective person, pet or institution. Get it? Loyalty doesn't just mean "whatever feels right LUL", that's stupid. "In this case, loyalty means for her to stop me from treating her like shit", no it doesn't. If it can mean that, it could literally mean anything. No, loyalty means to stand by someone's side (or some institution's side or some ideals' side) (= jdn. beistehen, zu etwas stehen) or receptively: to stay true (= treu) to someone or something. edit: @xAlionnnn: If "true love" doesn't last, then it isn't "true" at all. See: Forget-Me-Not plants symbolize true love.  http://symbolism.wikia.com/wiki/Forget-Me-Nothttp://www.flowermeaning.com/forget-me-not-flower-meaning/ https://gardenerdy.com/what-do-forget-me-not-flowers-symbolize Old English triewe (West Saxon), treowe (Mercian) "faithful, trustworthy, honest, steady in adhering to promises, friends, etc.," from Proto-Germanic *treuwaz "having or characterized by good faith" (source also of Old Frisian triuwi, Dutch getrouw, Old High German gatriuwu, German treu, Old Norse tryggr, Danish tryg, Gothic triggws "faithful, trusty"), from PIE *drew-o-, a suffixed form of the root *deru- "be firm, solid, steadfast." https://www.etymonline.com/word/true1.1attributive Rightly or strictly so called; genuine. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/true |
NoboruOct 1, 2018 12:32 PM
Railey2 said: CapitalistGod said: @Railey2 Dogs are animals and they act on instinct. The affection they give their owners is a result of said instinct of a domesticated animal. It is by no means unconditional. @traed I already agreed to that. I said as much in the opening post. I'm saying it's unconditional enough for it to not be meaningful. Are people just trying to deliberately misunderstand or am I really being this unclear? Here again: YES, ITS NOT COMPLETELY UNCONDITIONAL. BUT ON THE SCALE OF UNCONDITIONALITY, ITS TOO HIGH UP TO BE WORTHWHILE You can really fuck up with a dog before it actually starts hating you, one kick doesn't do it. And no, I'm not speaking from experience. Can we stop with this now? @traed regarding celebrity worship, use this as a reference. That's what I mean. See why I ranked it so low? Beyond that, I'm not interested in playing semantic games with you. I pulled up wikipedia and showed you the definition. That is what I'm talking about. The concept of selflessness is irrelevant here. While dogs do have an emotional capacity they likely experience love different from humans. Because we can not speak dog it's not so easy to tell if a dog loves us. Anyway it isn't "pathetic" as you kept saying throughout your thread. It's just a type of companionship. Some people want that simple constant there. If a dog is judging you you have no idea. If you tell a dog a secret it's impossible for them to tell it to another person. A dog can't shit talk you. This tells you more about the people the person was previously close to than just the person themselves. It's not that they are pathetic it's that people are not always as reliable and trustworthy as we hope for and anyone would have trouble with that. Also some people just simply like dogs. Fangirling/boying..That's obsession or at least fixation coming from infatuation among other possible reasons. I wouldn't really call that love of a person because it's more a love of high emotions and fame among other things or is just simply escapism. It's hard to explain actually. Each individual has their reasons. |
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Railey2 said: CapitalistGod said: from my opening post:Having a sense of companionship with a dog isn't unconditional. While the dog may lack thought you still provide the creature its most basic and instinctual needs. In return, you get something of value(companionship). It might not be like friendships with another humans but it doesn't mean it's not something of value. Railey2 said: Of course dogs don't love you completely unconditionally. You can beat the shit out of a dog until it hates and fears you, that's not my point. The point is that the love that a dog feels for a human has a degree of unconditionality so high, that it stops being meaningful. J_LEE_C said: I couldn't agree more. I'd have a lot more to say in response to this ridiculous thread but I don't want to get banned again. If interacting with other people IRL only brings you pain, then that shows us something. You're either a trashy person yourself, which explains why your relationships with other humans are trashy, or you're just a horrible judge of character and as a result spend time with people who are no good. Your response to that is retreat. And while you're busy escaping into the anime world and rationalizing your pain away, you've found that you're unable to have proper relationships with other human beings, so you're turning to animals instead. I have one word for that: Pathetic. This thread is for you, it's exactly for people like you. If you find yourself preferring dogs over humans, you have completely failed as a social actor. Prove me wrong, J_LEE_C. You have 1,333 completed anime in your list, you think I can't tell what your social life is like? @Sonal1988 same thing for you, having completed 1,495 manga. We can all tell, it's out in the open after all. You're 100% correct, you totally know me better than I know myself. Wow, you're like God, and you should definitely run for President in 2020. What's it like to be omnipotent and know everything about every person at all times? It sounds quite surreal. Yeah, I've never interacted with a person in real life. I've never even seen one, I don't even know what they look like. Are they shaped like dodecahedrons or rhombohexagonals? Oh well, in my 27 years I've never seen a human before so I guess I'll continue to wonder until the day I die. I'm honored that you would make a thread just for me, and bestow upon me the beautiful title of "trash". Words cannot express my gratitude. #FailureAtLife #What'sAHooman #TrashLivesMatter |
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J_LEE_C said: Railey2 said: from my opening post: If interacting with other people IRL only brings you pain, then that shows us something. You're either a trashy person yourself, which explains why your relationships with other humans are trashy, or you're just a horrible judge of character and as a result spend time with people who are no good. Your response to that is retreat. And while you're busy escaping into the anime world and rationalizing your pain away, you've found that you're unable to have proper relationships with other human beings, so you're turning to animals instead. I have one word for that: Pathetic. This thread is for you, it's exactly for people like you. If you find yourself preferring dogs over humans, you have completely failed as a social actor. Prove me wrong, J_LEE_C. You have 1,333 completed anime in your list, you think I can't tell what your social life is like? @Sonal1988 same thing for you, having completed 1,495 manga. We can all tell, it's out in the open after all. You're 100% correct, you totally know me better than I know myself. Wow, you're like God, and you should definitely run for President in 2020. What's it like to be omnipotent and know everything about every person at all times? It sounds quite surreal. Yeah, I've never interacted with a person in real life. I've never even seen one, I don't even know what they look like. Are they shaped like dodecahedrons or rhombohexagonals? Oh well, in my 27 years I've never seen a human before so I guess I'll continue to wonder until the day I die. I'm honored that you would make a thread just for me, and bestow upon me the beautiful title of "trash". Words cannot express my gratitude. #FailureAtLife #What'sAHooman #TrashLivesMatter Don't even mention the word trash to the OP. It's an insult to even the lowest of trash for them to be mentioned to his ears. I would suggest you ignore subhumans. |
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| Not all dogs are so great. Some of them are little bastards like my remaining one. Last night he waited until I went to sleep and started barking his head off... at absolutely nothing... nobody outside... Little bastard =_= |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
Railey2 said: The point is that the love that a dog feels for a human has a degree of unconditionality so high, that it stops being meaningful. Why do you get to decide what level of "unconditionality" makes the relationship meaningless and what doesn't? Surely, there are a lot of people who love their significant others/family despite their flaws. Some parents will say that they would love their child even if they commited murder. This certainly has a large degree of unconditionality to it, wouldn't you agree? So then, aren't you just arbitrarily deciding that one is healthy adult relationship and the other is meaningless, shallow pathetic garbage with no justification for the distinction? I call that special pleading. |
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| I'm really glad someone said this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while. |
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| Incorrect I'll have you know my adorabu doggo loves me very very much and IS my best friend |
| I think you mistake unconditional love with obsession. |
| not gonna lie this entire post is quite autistic, and i'm trying to mean this in the least offensive way possible not sure why you even spent so much effort into writing this lmao the chart is omegalul don't think i really have to explain myself other than this quote "Getting a dog to satisfy your need for friendship isn't much different from getting a fuckdoll for satisfying your sexual needs. It might feel good, but you know that it's not the real thing. It can never be the real thing." kinda speaks for itself inb4 i OnLy TrIeD tO ExAgGeRaTe To MaKe My PoInT |
zzzeally said: not gonna lie this entire post is quite autistic, and i'm trying to mean this in the least offensive way possible not sure why you even spent so much effort into writing this lmao the chart is omegalul don't think i really have to explain myself other than this quote "Getting a dog to satisfy your need for friendship isn't much different from getting a fuckdoll for satisfying your sexual needs. It might feel good, but you know that it's not the real thing. It can never be the real thing." kinda speaks for itself inb4 i OnLy TrIeD tO ExAgGeRaTe To MaKe My PoInT I'm tempted to send you a friend request for the pure gold truth that is your comment here alone. And I don't normally add random people. lol |
|
| Did your dog hurt you OP? Maybe it was time to put it down? I need answers! |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
| but... dogs don't love bad owners lol |
| Why MAL users hate dogs so much? And others animals too |
 |
| Unconditional love isn't absolute, just like every other feeling in the world. It's preserved and maintained by your very own criteria for a healthy relationship (Emotional maturity, being there for one another, the ability to have compromises and conditions). I understand this may sound contradictory to the definition of "unconditional" on paper but what it truly means in practice is to simply give a loved one the benefit of doubt. I think what you have an issue with is the extreme side of unconditional love which is obviously negative, but the thing is the absolute of most things in life is in fact negative. |
VenomousSep 29, 2018 4:54 PM
 |
| This thread feels like an "anti-dog" thread therefore I pronounce this thread "garbage". DOGS MOST CERTAINLY ARE MAN'S BEST FRIEND. That is why dogs are used to save people. |
  |
Chiibi said: This thread feels like an "anti-dog" thread therefore I pronounce this thread "garbage". His threads have always been garbage, though... |
xx0:44 ─🔘────────────── 04:44x ◀ xxxxxxxxx ❚❚ xxxxxxxxx ►xxxx |
| I'm real confused how u derived the conclusion that unconditional love is pathetic from dog isn't a mans best friend That's nonsequitter buddy |
  ur opinion = shit |
| Thank you. That's why I say cat's are superior. I'm happy with my cat injecting my brain with Toxoplasma gondii and manipulating my brain chemistry for affection then actually have an instinctual evolutionary bond developed over thousands of years with a stupid fucking robot-like animal. |
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