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Lord_Dracule said: Oh wow, I was the only one who rated this 1/5 lololol. I didn't actually hate it, i "hated" it. Poor me... Off to the Eclipse, heretic! |
| Casca is back! But i know it something would happen, unfortunately this wouldn't be a happy end T-T |
| WTF is wrong with the artstyle? Casca looks atrocious, like a generic moe character. And the Elf queen is stupid, to just send Casca to Guts in a pretty dress and not considering that she doesnt remember everything yet. Miura is dragging this story to death |
Aardwolf94 said: WTF is wrong with the artstyle? Casca looks atrocious, like a generic moe character. And the Elf queen is stupid, to just send Casca to Guts in a pretty dress and not considering that she doesnt remember everything yet. Miura is dragging this story to death The art style has been moefied since the beginning of this arc, and it's intentional. Why would the queen (king) even consider that? Why would she even think there'd be a consequence to reuniting the two? Also, we don't know what happened while they were in the dream world, the elf queen (king) could have put Casca under another spell and what we see here is also an illusion, or perhaps Guts requested that he'd deal with Casca after she woke up. To foil your subjective viewpoint, I will give my own by saying that Miura isn't dragging the story to death. That said, the releases of the chapters are what's taking too long and Miura has to work with 18 paged chapters as opposed to 30-50 pages like it used to have. Now that Miura healed Casca after exactly 21 years, I doubt the hiatuses will keep up as much as it has been as we are getting a chapter this month. Maybe sooner or later, Berserk will get its double length back as we head into the next and possibly the final arc. But it's not like Berserk hasn't been running on 20~ paged chapters for quite some time now with or without hiatuses, it's just a case of subject matter and execution. This plot point has been building up for 21 years, of course Miura will take his time to execute it right. There are no redos after all. |
Draconix814Apr 7, 2018 8:51 PM
| Daddy Guts to stop suffering soon challenge failed |
| Seunghoon my sunflower |
Aardwolf94 said: WTF is wrong with the artstyle? Casca looks atrocious, like a generic moe character. Yeah, she looked soooo much different in the Golden Age arc ar- OH WAIT  Aardwolf94 said: And the Elf queen is stupid, to just send Casca to Guts in a pretty dress and not considering that she doesnt remember everything yet She clearly remembers enough to tear up at the mention of Guts' name Aardwolf94 said: Miura is dragging this story to death >has one piece rated a 10 |
CrimsonResonance said: Aardwolf94 said: WTF is wrong with the artstyle? Casca looks atrocious, like a generic moe character. Yeah, she looked soooo much different in the Golden Age arc ar- OH WAIT Aardwolf94 said: And the Elf queen is stupid, to just send Casca to Guts in a pretty dress and not considering that she doesnt remember everything yet She clearly remembers enough to tear up at the mention of Guts' name Aardwolf94 said: Miura is dragging this story to death >has one piece rated a 10 First of, GA was 20 years ago so suddenly trying to go back to that style would be a regression anyway. And is that pic somehow supposed to prove your argument? WTF She still looks much more natural in the GA one, in the other one she looks so fake and annoyingly moe that its just sad to see what became of Miura's art. And compare Casca now with art from the MF arc..its ridiculous. She clearly didn't remember enough, considering her reaction at the end. Salty Berserk fans as usually, bringing up other manga because they can't stand their overrated shitty series to be bashed. How about discussing this series instead of bringing up by ratings of other series..oh wait thats too difficult right? At least One Piece knows what it is, a great well done Shounen that uses the tropes well. The story is at times too dragged out (Fishman Island, Dressrosa) but it actually fits the overall story since its an adventure, first and foremost. Not to mention OP's world is much more interesting and fleshed out anyway (berserk is your typical generic fantasy setting, especially now). OP stayed true to its roots while Berserk which started out as a compelling mature story (hell the GA arc is the best story in any manga) with basically no typical tropes and it ended up being a shitty JRPG manga with cliche characters (Schierke, Isidro etc.), zero depth and annoying humor because the author turned soft. Its like a shell of its former self now The story being milked out doesn't fit here because you can clearly see that Miura is stretching it out with meaningless detours (sea god) and fights (dragged out attack on Vrtannis, beach etc. that take up whole volumes, same old boring Griffith vs Ganishka). The female lead suffered as well and was retarded for 20 volumes for this reason which is a damm shame and the MC is no closer to the actual main goal everyone is waiting for (Guts vs Griffith). Short of asspulls how is Guts going to defeat Griffith/God Hand? Time for another 20 volumes to find out This is basically Bleach levels of pacing. |
Aardwolf94Apr 15, 2018 8:01 AM
Aardwolf94 said: CrimsonResonance said: Yeah, she looked soooo much different in the Golden Age arc ar- OH WAIT She clearly remembers enough to tear up at the mention of Guts' name >has one piece rated a 10 First of, GA was 20 years ago so suddenly trying to go back to that style would be a regression anyway. And is that pic somehow supposed to prove your argument? WTF She still looks much more natural in the GA one, in the other one she looks so fake and annoyingly moe that its just sad to see what became of Miura's art. And compare Casca now with art from the MF arc..its ridiculous. She clearly didn't remember enough, considering her reaction at the end. Salty Berserk fans as usually, bringing up other manga because they can't stand their overrated shitty series to be bashed. How about discussing this series instead of bringing up by ratings of other series..oh wait thats too difficult right? At least One Piece knows what it is, a great well done Shounen that uses the tropes well. The story is at times too dragged out (Fishman Island, Dressrosa) but it actually fits the overall story since its an adventure, first and foremost. Not to mention OP's world is much more interesting and fleshed out anyway (berserk is your typical generic fantasy setting, especially now). OP stayed true to its roots while Berserk which started out as a compelling mature story with basically no typical tropes and it ended up being a shitty JRPG manga with cliche characters (Schierke, Isidro etc.) and annoying humor because the author turned soft. The story being milked out doesn't fit here because you can clearly see that Miura is stretching it out with meaningless detours (sea god) and fights (dragged out attack on Vrtannis, beach etc. that take up whole volumes, same old boring Griffith vs Ganishka). The female lead suffered as well and was retarded for 20 volumes for this reason which is a damm shame and the MC is no closer to the actual main goal everyone is waiting for (Guts vs Griffith). Short of asspulls how is Guts going to defeat Griffith/God Hand? Time for another 20 volumes to find out This is basically Bleach levels of pacing. If you honest to God think Casca looks less "moe" in the former pic then there's nothing more to say. You're letting your massive hate boner flat out blind you. How the elf queen supposed to know of the trauma she experienced during the eclipse? I was just trying to point out your hypocrisy. OP is 90% detours yet you seem to excuse it.. ...aaaand there he goes off on a tangent. "Berserk is your typical generic fantasy setting" Meaningless buzzwords. Berserk has alot of fresh and unique concepts and it's alot bolder than its contemporary titles. It's world basically inspired Dark Souls, that should tell you how stand-out it is. Berserk was always supposed to be a fantasy series, and it's still compelling and mature. Schierke is not cliche, she definitely has a lot more to her than "loli witch" as you put it. And Isidro was intentionally written to be like a cliche hot-headed arrogant shonen lead at first, so that he could realise he was in way over his head and humble himself later down the line. And the humour was there since the very first chapter lol The Sea God arc did have a purpose, it showcased the after-effects of the astral world merge and introduced the character of Isma. Also wtf Griffith vs Ganishka was anything but boring? It showed us the sheer breadth of Griffith's power and influence (and seeing him plough through thousands of kushans was quite satisfying) It was meant to invoke a sense of dread, like "shit, how's Guts possibly gonna take on this guy?" You wanted Casca to be restored sooner? That would've drastically reduced the catharsis of her long-awaited return. Miura said that Berserk is 60-70% complete btw |
CrimsonResonance said: Aardwolf94 said: First of, GA was 20 years ago so suddenly trying to go back to that style would be a regression anyway. And is that pic somehow supposed to prove your argument? WTF She still looks much more natural in the GA one, in the other one she looks so fake and annoyingly moe that its just sad to see what became of Miura's art. And compare Casca now with art from the MF arc..its ridiculous. She clearly didn't remember enough, considering her reaction at the end. Salty Berserk fans as usually, bringing up other manga because they can't stand their overrated shitty series to be bashed. How about discussing this series instead of bringing up by ratings of other series..oh wait thats too difficult right? At least One Piece knows what it is, a great well done Shounen that uses the tropes well. The story is at times too dragged out (Fishman Island, Dressrosa) but it actually fits the overall story since its an adventure, first and foremost. Not to mention OP's world is much more interesting and fleshed out anyway (berserk is your typical generic fantasy setting, especially now). OP stayed true to its roots while Berserk which started out as a compelling mature story with basically no typical tropes and it ended up being a shitty JRPG manga with cliche characters (Schierke, Isidro etc.) and annoying humor because the author turned soft. The story being milked out doesn't fit here because you can clearly see that Miura is stretching it out with meaningless detours (sea god) and fights (dragged out attack on Vrtannis, beach etc. that take up whole volumes, same old boring Griffith vs Ganishka). The female lead suffered as well and was retarded for 20 volumes for this reason which is a damm shame and the MC is no closer to the actual main goal everyone is waiting for (Guts vs Griffith). Short of asspulls how is Guts going to defeat Griffith/God Hand? Time for another 20 volumes to find out This is basically Bleach levels of pacing. If you honest to God think Casca looks less "moe" in the former pic then there's nothing more to say. You're letting your massive hate boner flat out blind you. How the elf queen supposed to know of the trauma she experienced during the eclipse? I was just trying to point out your hypocrisy. OP is 90% detours yet you seem to excuse it.. ...aaaand there he goes off on a tangent. "Berserk is your typical generic fantasy setting" Meaningless buzzwords. Berserk has alot of fresh and unique concepts and it's alot bolder than its contemporary titles. It's world basically inspired Dark Souls, that should tell you how stand-out it is. Berserk was always supposed to be a fantasy series, and it's still compelling and mature. Schierke is not cliche, she definitely has a lot more to her than "loli witch" as you put it. And Isidro was intentionally written to be like a cliche hot-headed arrogant shonen lead at first, so that he could realise he was in way over his head and humble himself later down the line. And the humour was there since the very first chapter lol The Sea God arc did have a purpose, it showcased the after-effects of the astral world merge and introduced the character of Isma. Also wtf Griffith vs Ganishka was anything but boring? It showed us the sheer breadth of Griffith's power and influence (and seeing him plough through thousands of kushans was quite satisfying) It was meant to invoke a sense of dread, like "shit, how's Guts possibly gonna take on this guy?" You wanted Casca to be restored sooner? That would've drastically reduced the catharsis of her long-awaited return. Miura said that Berserk is 60-70% complete btw I could also say that your blind fanboyism is getting in the way of realizing how much more fake Casca looks in the second pic + you just ignored my points regarding the art improving a lot after the GA arc so there is no need to regress either way. Casca looks like a completely different character now Elf queen is supposed to be smart. She knows for some reason she was retarded and they came to cure her. Obviously something bad happened, thats why Schierke and Farnese were sent into Casca's mind in the first place. OP is an adventure, its supposed to be like that. Every Island is a new adventure and after each Saga there is a satisfying feeling. Thats not Berserk which is more connected, limited and has clearly been just stalling The only unique aspects is with the whole God Hand/apostles/casuality part which has been basically shafted after the Conviction arc anyway. The magic system is generic JRPG esque & the mages are as cliche as it gets (looks, abilities etc.), the creatures (Trolls, fucking crocodiles etc.) are nothing interesting or fresh etc. Never played Dark Souls but it was likely inspired by the more unique aspects. No its not very mature & compelling anymore with 4 obnoxious comic relief characters, no tension, shallow characters, milked out story etc. How is Schierke interesting? She is just the typical perfect & OP loli with with a crush on an older guy. She has no interesting flaws (like Casca in GA or even Farnese in Conviction) and is just a boring exposition machine. Thats what I thought about Isidro as well, yet here we are after 20 volumes (when he first appeared) and he has had barely any meaningful development and he is still the cliche hot-headed arrogant shonen lead..he just likes his party members more now. The humor used to be more natural and not in your face. Now with Isidro, flanderized Puck (not even a real character anymore), Magnificio, the other elf etc. its just way too much. The sea god arc could have been dark and interesting but because of the obnoxious comic relief and Team Rocket Pirates it was just lackluster. Isma is another generic loli and the after affects could have been shown in a much better way instead of adding another detour with tons of mindless monster killing. As if thats not what Berserk has been since the troll shit Because Griffith already had God Mode on, unlike the GA arc. There was no real suspense, it was just mindless battles until the end (which was great no doubt). The whole thing dragged on for like 10 volumes, yet could have been easily done in a few chapters & in a more subtle way. Seeing Griffith play God was fun the first time but repeating it so often just made the whole thing boring. still better than Guts story post Conviction though. Lol, seems like Miura himself doesn't know how Guts can take on Griffith. There has been zero development on that front and in the last 18 volumes (since they last saw each other) he achieved nothing (in terms of finding any way to beat him) while Griffith basically changed the world and is a god now. Again short of an asspull, I doubt there is a way to defeat Griffith. She should have returend way sooner, it should have been at best 10 volumes long. I think Schierke's mentor should have restored her and that would have been just fine. Turning the compelling female lead into a retard and plot device for 20 years (for "feels" purposes was just silly and cheap. It was only done so Guts story regarding Griffith doesn't progress imho. Miura wanted Griffith to do his thing and if Casca was already cured, why the hell would Guts go on random adventures and not fight Griffith? 18 volumes were overall way too much for Guts and Griffith's story post Conviction, there was just so much stalling. Look at the Golden Age arc, it was well paced and engaging and "only" had 10 volumes, Conviction just 6 etc. |
Aardwolf94Apr 15, 2018 9:18 AM
Aardwolf94 said: I could also say that your blind fanboyism is getting in the way of realizing how much more fake Casca looks in the second pic + you just ignored my points regarding the art improving a lot after the GA arc so there is no need to regress either way. Casca looks like a completely different character now You realize your opinion is subjective, just like those of all the "salty fanboys" you decry so much, right? Personally I prefer the way Casca looks now. One thing I disliked during the GA arc was the way Miura constantly drew Casca with puckered lips, like she was waiting to kiss someone. THAT was way more moe than awakened Casca or even potato Casca, to me. And except for her hair, I don't see how she looks much different. If you don't, that's your opinion, but I would be interested if you could actually back that up with some kind of analysis. When I look at the side-by-side comparison that CrimsonResonance posted, they look pretty similar to me (particularly the facial structure and eye shape). The only big differences I see is that Miura got rid of the cartoony lips and her hair is longer in the back. I've been reading your posts railing against current Berserk for a while now, and while I actually agree with you on some points, the biggest turn-off about reading them is that you immediately resort to name-calling and insults when people disagree with you. You might find that people are more open to discussion if you can politely agree to disagree instead of automatically dismissing dissenters as "butthurt fanboys." Just thought I'd mention it, take it or leave it as you please, it makes no difference to me. |
LunaLena said: Aardwolf94 said: I could also say that your blind fanboyism is getting in the way of realizing how much more fake Casca looks in the second pic + you just ignored my points regarding the art improving a lot after the GA arc so there is no need to regress either way. Casca looks like a completely different character now You realize your opinion is subjective, just like those of all the "salty fanboys" you decry so much, right? Personally I prefer the way Casca looks now. One thing I disliked during the GA arc was the way Miura constantly drew Casca with puckered lips, like she was waiting to kiss someone. THAT was way more moe than awakened Casca or even potato Casca, to me. And except for her hair, I don't see how she looks much different. If you don't, that's your opinion, but I would be interested if you could actually back that up with some kind of analysis. When I look at the side-by-side comparison that CrimsonResonance posted, they look pretty similar to me (particularly the facial structure and eye shape). The only big differences I see is that Miura got rid of the cartoony lips and her hair is longer in the back. I've been reading your posts railing against current Berserk for a while now, and while I actually agree with you on some points, the biggest turn-off about reading them is that you immediately resort to name-calling and insults when people disagree with you. You might find that people are more open to discussion if you can politely agree to disagree instead of automatically dismissing dissenters as "butthurt fanboys." Just thought I'd mention it, take it or leave it as you please, it makes no difference to me. I never said otherwise. I just replied in that way because the other user was acting like I'm the delusional one ("You're letting your massive hate boner flat out blind you") so why shouldn't I do the same... People can prefer the new artstyle, the later arcs etc. obviously, don't care. And her character definitely looks more childish now and moe now imho. First of comparing it with the GA art like I already said isn't right since that was more than 20 years ago, the artstyle improved vastly after that (everyone looked different back then) and I still think she looks much more natural in the first pic. Look at this https://i.imgur.com/sreoF7e.jpg (changes over the years) or this https://i.redd.it/lu37pwfsjbn01.png and if you still can't see how Casca went from a mature looking woman to a moe young girl in just a few chapters (she still looked fine in the sea god arc) then thats your opinion I guess. Miura's art in general went downhill because he went digital (https://imgur.com/a/bKZSn). Casca just took it the worst. Mate I would like to discuss things in a polite manner but while I did resort to name calling and insults, it was only after the fans started it. Look up my thread if you don't believe me. People just get really worked up if you dare to bash Berserk |
Aardwolf94 said: CrimsonResonance said: If you honest to God think Casca looks less "moe" in the former pic then there's nothing more to say. You're letting your massive hate boner flat out blind you. How the elf queen supposed to know of the trauma she experienced during the eclipse? I was just trying to point out your hypocrisy. OP is 90% detours yet you seem to excuse it.. ...aaaand there he goes off on a tangent. "Berserk is your typical generic fantasy setting" Meaningless buzzwords. Berserk has alot of fresh and unique concepts and it's alot bolder than its contemporary titles. It's world basically inspired Dark Souls, that should tell you how stand-out it is. Berserk was always supposed to be a fantasy series, and it's still compelling and mature. Schierke is not cliche, she definitely has a lot more to her than "loli witch" as you put it. And Isidro was intentionally written to be like a cliche hot-headed arrogant shonen lead at first, so that he could realise he was in way over his head and humble himself later down the line. And the humour was there since the very first chapter lol The Sea God arc did have a purpose, it showcased the after-effects of the astral world merge and introduced the character of Isma. Also wtf Griffith vs Ganishka was anything but boring? It showed us the sheer breadth of Griffith's power and influence (and seeing him plough through thousands of kushans was quite satisfying) It was meant to invoke a sense of dread, like "shit, how's Guts possibly gonna take on this guy?" You wanted Casca to be restored sooner? That would've drastically reduced the catharsis of her long-awaited return. Miura said that Berserk is 60-70% complete btw I could also say that your blind fanboyism is getting in the way of realizing how much more fake Casca looks in the second pic + you just ignored my points regarding the art improving a lot after the GA arc so there is no need to regress either way. Casca looks like a completely different character now Elf queen is supposed to be smart. She knows for some reason she was retarded and they came to cure her. Obviously something bad happened, thats why Schierke and Farnese were sent into Casca's mind in the first place. OP is an adventure, its supposed to be like that. Every Island is a new adventure and after each Saga there is a satisfying feeling. Thats not Berserk which is more connected, limited and has clearly been just stalling The only unique aspects is with the whole God Hand/apostles/casuality part which has been basically shafted after the Conviction arc anyway. The magic system is generic JRPG esque & the mages are as cliche as it gets (looks, abilities etc.), the creatures (Trolls, fucking crocodiles etc.) are nothing interesting or fresh etc. Never played Dark Souls but it was likely inspired by the more unique aspects. No its not very mature & compelling anymore with 4 obnoxious comic relief characters, no tension, shallow characters, milked out story etc. How is Schierke interesting? She is just the typical perfect & OP loli with with a crush on an older guy. She has no interesting flaws (like Casca in GA or even Farnese in Conviction) and is just a boring exposition machine. Thats what I thought about Isidro as well, yet here we are after 20 volumes (when he first appeared) and he has had barely any meaningful development and he is still the cliche hot-headed arrogant shonen lead..he just likes his party members more now. The humor used to be more natural and not in your face. Now with Isidro, flanderized Puck (not even a real character anymore), Magnificio, the other elf etc. its just way too much. The sea god arc could have been dark and interesting but because of the obnoxious comic relief and Team Rocket Pirates it was just lackluster. Isma is another generic loli and the after affects could have been shown in a much better way instead of adding another detour with tons of mindless monster killing. As if thats not what Berserk has been since the troll shit Because Griffith already had God Mode on, unlike the GA arc. There was no real suspense, it was just mindless battles until the end (which was great no doubt). The whole thing dragged on for like 10 volumes, yet could have been easily done in a few chapters & in a more subtle way. Seeing Griffith play God was fun the first time but repeating it so often just made the whole thing boring. still better than Guts story post Conviction though. Lol, seems like Miura himself doesn't know how Guts can take on Griffith. There has been zero development on that front and in the last 18 volumes (since they last saw each other) he achieved nothing (in terms of finding any way to beat him) while Griffith basically changed the world and is a god now. Again short of an asspull, I doubt there is a way to defeat Griffith. She should have returend way sooner, it should have been at best 10 volumes long. I think Schierke's mentor should have restored her and that would have been just fine. Turning the compelling female lead into a retard and plot device for 20 years (for "feels" purposes was just silly and cheap. It was only done so Guts story regarding Griffith doesn't progress imho. Miura wanted Griffith to do his thing and if Casca was already cured, why the hell would Guts go on random adventures and not fight Griffith? 18 volumes were overall way too much for Guts and Griffith's story post Conviction, there was just so much stalling. Look at the Golden Age arc, it was well paced and engaging and "only" had 10 volumes, Conviction just 6 etc. I dont know what you mean, IMO she looks more "stylised" and "anime" in the first picture. Also Miura is still getting used to the shift to digital art (it's still better than anything Golden Age though) Give him a few more chapters to get into the swing of things and he'll start channeling Millenium Falcon-tier drawings. Elf Queen is smart but she's not psychic! She knew something was wrong, but how was she (or anyone else) supposed to know that Guts was linked to her trauma, especially since he seems to be so caring towards her? Mate if you could spare a few seconds to look at Berserk's genre tags, you'd know it's also listed as "adventure" so there goes your entire argument. Most of the stuff that came after the Conviction arc is just an extension of stuff that came before. Magic has existed ever since The Black Swordsman arc and we're simply getting an explanation for it now. Also, the very fact that it has mages doesn't make it cliche. That's like saying the GA arc was cliche because it had knights, which we've also seen in alot of other media before. The creatures aren't interesting? Have you looked at Griffith's demon army, they look rad af Aside from the pre-conviction stuff, Dark Souls also took inspiration from the Berserker armour and the character of Schierke. The comic relief characters don't take away from the serious moments and the rest of your arguments are just more meaningless buzzwords. The themes and character introspection are very much still there (especially in these recent chapters) Schierke knows little to nothing about the outside world and this is highlighted throughout the Millenium Falcon arc. Her entire character arc was her learning to leave her nest and adapt to her new surroundings. She is far from perfect (even when she's casting those "OP" spells she's put in a very vulnerable position) Isidro's definitely more humble now than he was then. He knows his place and doesn't rush to the frontlines. Also he's grown more empathetic, as shown in his interactions with Isma. But yeah, he's still got a lot of room for growth. Puck was never really a character. He never had his own goals, aspirations, anything. He was always just the joke machine. What you don't seem to grasp is that you can still have comic relief in your story without squandering the tension. The Golden Age arc had Adon, who was even more obnoxiously over the top than the pirates (and not nearly as endearing either) yet he didn't take away from the high stakes of the battle for doldrey, just like the pirates didn't take away from the high stakes of the sea god fight. Isma is like 16 so I don't think the term "loli" applies. And she's still a new character so save your judgements till later. Berserk has always had detours. The entirety of the Lost Children arc was a detour, as was The Black Swordsman arc. And detours aren't a bad thing! They help to flesh out the world and characters. But what you don't understand is that you're not supposed to be rooting for Griffith He's no longer a hero like in the GA arc, but rather a malevolent God masquerading as a hero. You're supposed to be feeling dread at his display of powers. And it's not like Ganishka was a pushover either. He put up a decent enough fight, considering the resources at his disposal. It wasn't just mindless battles either, a large portion of it was Griffith using his charisma to rally the people around him to his cause, slowly uniting an entire nation under his wing, which I found fairly compelling. Miura is not one to utilise asspulls though, like I can't really think of any instance where he did. Maybe the battle against Griffith could be a more cerebral/strategic one, and not a direct physical confrontation. And Griffith's still got that demon baby inside him so he's reluctant to harm Guts and Casca, I'm sure that's gonna come into play later. Having Flora restore her just like that without any prior build up would've been terrible writing. Again part of what made her return so satisfying is the fact that she'd been out of it for so long. Golden Age was just one long flashback, which is why events are rushed past alot quicker than the rest of the series. And the Conviction arc had a much more small-scale conflict with a much smaller cast of characters as compared to the Millenium Falcon arc, which is why it was shorter. Maybe the reason you find it to be draging is because you've been reading the chapters as they come out? |
removed-userApr 16, 2018 3:24 AM
| would be funny if casca permanently break, well at least it will not happen, after thinking about how berserk tell its story.. right.....? |
CrimsonResonance said: Most of the stuff that came after the Conviction arc is just an extension of stuff that came before. Magic has existed ever since The Black Swordsman arc and we're simply getting an explanation for it now. Also, the very fact that it has mages doesn't make it cliche. That's like saying the GA arc was cliche because it had knights, which we've also seen in alot of other media before. Obviously magic was around since the beginning. The difference, is, though, that it was in the background and was far more subtle. There were no long winded-explanations and whatnot. Guts didn't rely on magical armor to confront obstacles. Miura himself said that he introduced this change because that was the best "power up" that he could think of. The fact of the matter is that it changed the essence of Berserk. Guts went from relying almost solely on indomitable will and even rage to push himself to the limit, to "activating" his powerup in times of distress (along with the, quite frankly, overpowered crew he rolls with nowadays). Regardless on whether you think this is a good or bad thing, the fact of the matter is that it fundamentally changed what Guts fighting was all about. It made things softer and less brutal. CrimsonResonance said: The creatures aren't interesting? Have you looked at Griffith's demon army, they look rad af. "Rad" is not a word I would have used to describe the monsters before seeing Griffith's new glamorous demon army. The monsters went from gruesome, sinister, depraved, completely fucked up looking abominations to fantastical. CrimsonResonance said: The comic relief characters don't take away from the serious moments and the rest of your arguments are just more meaningless buzzwords. The themes and character introspection are very much still there (especially in these recent chapters) Comic relief characters do take away from seriousness, actually. They can kill intensity, or distract you from what is supposed to be a grim atmosphere or grave situation. The introspection and philosophy is nowhere near the level it was Conviction and before. Perhaps it's because Guts has fought off a lot of his inner demons at this point. But the fact remains that there has been a serious shift in focus from the individual to the worldly happenings and bigger casts. CrimsonResonance said: Schierke knows little to nothing about the outside world and this is highlighted throughout the Millenium Falcon arc. Her entire character arc was her learning to leave her nest and adapt to her new surroundings. She is far from perfect (even when she's casting those "OP" spells she's put in a very vulnerable position) Isidro's definitely more humble now than he was then. He knows his place and doesn't rush to the frontlines. Also he's grown more empathetic, as shown in his interactions with Isma. But yeah, he's still got a lot of room for growth.[/quote] And yet they are still boring characters. I would trade guts' entire new crew for corkus. CrimsonResonance said: Puck was never really a character. He never had his own goals, aspirations, anything. He was always just the joke machine. LOL he was not always just a joke machine. He provided commentary on serious shit until Miura lightened the series and turned him into pure comic relief almost reminiscent of a shounen series side character CrimsonResonance said: What you don't seem to grasp is that you can still have comic relief in your story without squandering the tension. The Golden Age arc had Adon, who was even more obnoxiously over the top than the pirates (and not nearly as endearing either) yet he didn't take away from the high stakes of the battle for doldrey, just like the pirates didn't take away from the high stakes of the sea god fight. I dont know what to say to you if you think the sea god fight is even anywhere near the battle for doldrey |
| First time i cried a bit with Berserk and Guts theme in background. Wow, f... u M. |
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| For all of yall flippin' out about the art style. IT'S INTENTIONAL. (This isn't an in-depth analysis, but he does bring up good points explaining his theory) |
Aardwolf94 said: I never said otherwise. I just replied in that way because the other user was acting like I'm the delusional one ("You're letting your massive hate boner flat out blind you") so why shouldn't I do the same... People can prefer the new artstyle, the later arcs etc. obviously, don't care. Just gonna say, if your reasoning boils down "well they started it," you aren't exactly helping your cause. :) And for someone who keeps saying they don't care, you sure spend a lot of time repeating the same arguments with the same people over their preferences (yes I saw your other thread where you said a lot of the same things you said here). Aardwolf94 said: And her character definitely looks more childish now and moe now imho. See, this is why I suspect people are getting frustrated talking to you - you didn't address anything I said, you just keep repeating your opinion. Again, in the pictures CrimsonResonance posted, her eye shape and facial structure (both of which are very important characteristics to Asian anime artists) are virtually identical. Also, in the GA picture, she has cartoony lips, whereas in the recent versions, she has teeth and more realistic thin lips. If all you have to say back is "nuh-uh, she looks way more moe now" then that's my cue to move on from this conversation because we'll just be going in circles at that point. Aardwolf94 said: I still think she looks much more natural in the first pic. Just gonna say as a Asian-American who grew up watching and drawing anime and now works in an arts field: I could point out to you all the little differences between the two pics that show that Miura's art style has grown a lot more realistic and natural now than it was 20 years ago. However, I have other more important things I could and should be doing instead, so I won't unless asked to. Aardwolf94 said: Look at this https://i.imgur.com/sreoF7e.jpg (changes over the years) or this https://i.redd.it/lu37pwfsjbn01.png and if you still can't see how Casca went from a mature looking woman to a moe young girl in just a few chapters (she still looked fine in the sea god arc) then thats your opinion I guess. The first image (the one on Imgur) is way too small to see in any detail. As for the second, the one on Reddit, it took me a few minutes, but I found a panel from when Casca first met the Moonlight Child and she has huge eyes, similar to how she looks now. Again, not going to bother posting it unless asked to because I have better things to do. The reason I had to go back so far is because Casca hasn't been a significant part of the story since then. Any other images of her that I found as I glanced through previous chapters (and admittedly I skipped around a lot), she was in the background or in small panels, so she was not drawn in detail and one can't really say if she looked "mature" or "moe." I don't know what your standards are for "moe," but to me it was rather obvious that Casca was drawn differently when she was a potato than during GA or now when she's awake. When you have a visual medium like comics or manga, pictures are what you use to convey your story. To me, Miura chose to draw her in a way to indicated her "not all there" status, which some people have interpreted to be "more mature-looking" (I guess because the pupils were smaller?). I could go into a lot more detail about this, but again, better things to do, so I won't unless asked to. Aardwolf94 said: Miura's art in general went downhill because he went digital (https://imgur.com/a/bKZSn). Casca just took it the worst. No, his style has *changed*; whether that change is good or bad is completely subjective. It happens to most, if not all artists, especially those who produce art on a regular basis. I know several artists who like to re-draw their own drawings every few years, so they can see how much their style has changed over time. And there's nothing wrong with thinking that that change is for the worse - I stopped following some music artists for similar reasons - but you have to realize that it is just your opinion. Those same music artists still have millions of people who love them and buy their music enthusiastically, so clearly my opinion that their music has gotten worse is not an absolute fact. Aardwolf94 said: Mate I would like to discuss things in a polite manner but while I did resort to name calling and insults, it was only after the fans started it. Look up my thread if you don't believe me. People just get really worked up if you dare to bash Berserk Others did, so you're obligated to do it too? No one's forcing your fingers to type those words. The fact that you chose to respond in kind is on you, mate, just like the fact that they chose to use those words is on them. |
LunaLenaApr 17, 2018 4:15 PM
CrimsonResonance said: Aardwolf94 said: I could also say that your blind fanboyism is getting in the way of realizing how much more fake Casca looks in the second pic + you just ignored my points regarding the art improving a lot after the GA arc so there is no need to regress either way. Casca looks like a completely different character now Elf queen is supposed to be smart. She knows for some reason she was retarded and they came to cure her. Obviously something bad happened, thats why Schierke and Farnese were sent into Casca's mind in the first place. OP is an adventure, its supposed to be like that. Every Island is a new adventure and after each Saga there is a satisfying feeling. Thats not Berserk which is more connected, limited and has clearly been just stalling The only unique aspects is with the whole God Hand/apostles/casuality part which has been basically shafted after the Conviction arc anyway. The magic system is generic JRPG esque & the mages are as cliche as it gets (looks, abilities etc.), the creatures (Trolls, fucking crocodiles etc.) are nothing interesting or fresh etc. Never played Dark Souls but it was likely inspired by the more unique aspects. No its not very mature & compelling anymore with 4 obnoxious comic relief characters, no tension, shallow characters, milked out story etc. How is Schierke interesting? She is just the typical perfect & OP loli with with a crush on an older guy. She has no interesting flaws (like Casca in GA or even Farnese in Conviction) and is just a boring exposition machine. Thats what I thought about Isidro as well, yet here we are after 20 volumes (when he first appeared) and he has had barely any meaningful development and he is still the cliche hot-headed arrogant shonen lead..he just likes his party members more now. The humor used to be more natural and not in your face. Now with Isidro, flanderized Puck (not even a real character anymore), Magnificio, the other elf etc. its just way too much. The sea god arc could have been dark and interesting but because of the obnoxious comic relief and Team Rocket Pirates it was just lackluster. Isma is another generic loli and the after affects could have been shown in a much better way instead of adding another detour with tons of mindless monster killing. As if thats not what Berserk has been since the troll shit Because Griffith already had God Mode on, unlike the GA arc. There was no real suspense, it was just mindless battles until the end (which was great no doubt). The whole thing dragged on for like 10 volumes, yet could have been easily done in a few chapters & in a more subtle way. Seeing Griffith play God was fun the first time but repeating it so often just made the whole thing boring. still better than Guts story post Conviction though. Lol, seems like Miura himself doesn't know how Guts can take on Griffith. There has been zero development on that front and in the last 18 volumes (since they last saw each other) he achieved nothing (in terms of finding any way to beat him) while Griffith basically changed the world and is a god now. Again short of an asspull, I doubt there is a way to defeat Griffith. She should have returend way sooner, it should have been at best 10 volumes long. I think Schierke's mentor should have restored her and that would have been just fine. Turning the compelling female lead into a retard and plot device for 20 years (for "feels" purposes was just silly and cheap. It was only done so Guts story regarding Griffith doesn't progress imho. Miura wanted Griffith to do his thing and if Casca was already cured, why the hell would Guts go on random adventures and not fight Griffith? 18 volumes were overall way too much for Guts and Griffith's story post Conviction, there was just so much stalling. Look at the Golden Age arc, it was well paced and engaging and "only" had 10 volumes, Conviction just 6 etc. I dont know what you mean, IMO she looks more "stylised" and "anime" in the first picture. Also Miura is still getting used to the shift to digital art (it's still better than anything Golden Age though) Give him a few more chapters to get into the swing of things and he'll start channeling Millenium Falcon-tier drawings. Elf Queen is smart but she's not psychic! She knew something was wrong, but how was she (or anyone else) supposed to know that Guts was linked to her trauma, especially since he seems to be so caring towards her? Mate if you could spare a few seconds to look at Berserk's genre tags, you'd know it's also listed as "adventure" so there goes your entire argument. Most of the stuff that came after the Conviction arc is just an extension of stuff that came before. Magic has existed ever since The Black Swordsman arc and we're simply getting an explanation for it now. Also, the very fact that it has mages doesn't make it cliche. That's like saying the GA arc was cliche because it had knights, which we've also seen in alot of other media before. The creatures aren't interesting? Have you looked at Griffith's demon army, they look rad af Aside from the pre-conviction stuff, Dark Souls also took inspiration from the Berserker armour and the character of Schierke. The comic relief characters don't take away from the serious moments and the rest of your arguments are just more meaningless buzzwords. The themes and character introspection are very much still there (especially in these recent chapters) Schierke knows little to nothing about the outside world and this is highlighted throughout the Millenium Falcon arc. Her entire character arc was her learning to leave her nest and adapt to her new surroundings. She is far from perfect (even when she's casting those "OP" spells she's put in a very vulnerable position) Isidro's definitely more humble now than he was then. He knows his place and doesn't rush to the frontlines. Also he's grown more empathetic, as shown in his interactions with Isma. But yeah, he's still got a lot of room for growth. Puck was never really a character. He never had his own goals, aspirations, anything. He was always just the joke machine. What you don't seem to grasp is that you can still have comic relief in your story without squandering the tension. The Golden Age arc had Adon, who was even more obnoxiously over the top than the pirates (and not nearly as endearing either) yet he didn't take away from the high stakes of the battle for doldrey, just like the pirates didn't take away from the high stakes of the sea god fight. Isma is like 16 so I don't think the term "loli" applies. And she's still a new character so save your judgements till later. Berserk has always had detours. The entirety of the Lost Children arc was a detour, as was The Black Swordsman arc. And detours aren't a bad thing! They help to flesh out the world and characters. But what you don't understand is that you're not supposed to be rooting for Griffith He's no longer a hero like in the GA arc, but rather a malevolent God masquerading as a hero. You're supposed to be feeling dread at his display of powers. And it's not like Ganishka was a pushover either. He put up a decent enough fight, considering the resources at his disposal. It wasn't just mindless battles either, a large portion of it was Griffith using his charisma to rally the people around him to his cause, slowly uniting an entire nation under his wing, which I found fairly compelling. Miura is not one to utilise asspulls though, like I can't really think of any instance where he did. Maybe the battle against Griffith could be a more cerebral/strategic one, and not a direct physical confrontation. And Griffith's still got that demon baby inside him so he's reluctant to harm Guts and Casca, I'm sure that's gonna come into play later. Having Flora restore her just like that without any prior build up would've been terrible writing. Again part of what made her return so satisfying is the fact that she'd been out of it for so long. Golden Age was just one long flashback, which is why events are rushed past alot quicker than the rest of the series. And the Conviction arc had a much more small-scale conflict with a much smaller cast of characters as compared to the Millenium Falcon arc, which is why it was shorter. Maybe the reason you find it to be draging is because you've been reading the chapters as they come out? @RandomChampion Already did a great job but I'll add my two cents as well. Thats exactly how I would describe Casca in the second pic, very stylised and not real like she used to look. The GA arc art wasn't perfect but I think the characters overall still looked better and the fact is that Miura vastly improved in the following arcs so this shift to digital is a clear step back. I hope he can deliver MF level art again but I doubt it. Fair point on the Elf queen but she still should have been smarter and at least give Casca some time to rest. Instead she gives her a ridiculous outfit and sends her off to Guts. I'm talking about the whole story being focused on the adventure and thats certainly never how Berserk was. Its a more personal & connected story. The difference is that the GA arc while having knights focused on interesting characters, Guts and Griffith are anything but cliche characters. They aren't generic knights or some shit. Now with the mages they are just not explored in any interesting way and look as generic as it gets. Its just one of many examples that shows how Miura's writing declined. Magic used to be more in the background and it was better that way. Schierke's exposition dumps are so damm boring and the magic bs just takes away from the gritty style the series used to have. I'm sure you think that, I think Griffith's army sucks because the creepy really disgusting looking apostles were replaced by generic shiny "monsters". Every new apostle character seems to follow the same generic knight archtype (and we still dont know shit about them), where is the variety, like with the count and Rosine? Yes they do, add in so many obnoxious comic relief characters and potentially serious and dark arcs like the sea god one (what was actually happening there was pretty bad) are ruined and lose all the tension. Miura isn't taking it seriously so why should I? The cure Casca part in Elfheim had some solid character exploration but it doesn't make up for 12+ volumes of almost nothing (or when it was done, it was just done in a cliche way) in that regard. And I still think it could have been handled in a more subtle way (instead we got dick monsters). Schierke arc is not interesting at all since she adapts pretty easily and doesn't have to struggle at all. So "vulnerable" that there are no real consequences, its fake tension. She is the perfect cute loli, even the magic she uses is 100% good. Isidro being a bit nicer to his group isn't satisfying development after 20 volumes since he first appeared. Especially since his character is just the typical Shounen MC archtype. I really dont get wtf the point of this character was apart from adding more shit comic relief. Time for you to read the Black swordsman and Conviction arcs again. Puck never had any goals true but he was definitely a real character with an interesting relationship with Guts,not just a joke machine and in constant chestnut puck form. But sadly Miura's loli fetish appeared and he dumped him in favour of Schierke (a much worse character with a cheesier relationship with Guts, considering the crush). No he wasn't as over the top as the Pirates who were like fucking Team Rocket with the amount of times they kept returning (and since when were they endearing?). And it wasn't just the Pirates in the sea god arc, it was also Isidro, Puck etc. who were comic relief. Some comedy is fine but Berserk has been going overboard in that regard since quite a while. She looks like a loli so the term applies. And again with the bad excuses, Jill only appeared in the lost children arc (not much longer than the sea god one) and was still a much more human and interesting character than shitty Isma. They aren't a bad thing if they are executed well, none of the detours since Lost Children ended have been good. I mean just comparing the sea god arc with the lost children one shows you the decline of the series. Not to mention its been just one detour after another since Guts set out on his journey to elfheim, talk about repetitive Never said Griffith is or should be a hero at this point. How can anyone root for him after the shit he did? That doesn't mean he still can't be compelling and three dimensional, instead since his return he has been a boring fucking robot with no thoughts or relationships whatsoever. Ganishka didnt really put up any fight since all was going according to Griffith (and I guess the God Hand's) plan and he basically just kept losing. Griffith even used cheating in that regard, its not like in the GA arc where he actually had to use his charisma. This time there is already a revelation, god powers etc. so while it was interesting to see people act like his sheep, it got old real fast. If this was still made before Berserk started to be milked, it would have had much faster pacing, there is a lot of fat to be trimmed in Guts and Griffith's stories post Conviction. Who says the same go into Casca's mind story couldn't have happened there? Its lazy & cheap writing to drag out her return, just so it has more impact & "feels". 10 volumes was already more than enough. Its not like she returned directly after the GA arc.. No, I have only started following like 3 years ago and even when I first read it I realized how shitty the pacing became after Conviction. And its not because of the big cast but because of the bad detours, lots of wasting time on mindless unnecessary battles etc. The GA arc is not a typical flashback, its basically its own story with fantastic pacing. Not one chapter is wasted. |
Aardwolf94Apr 17, 2018 5:23 PM
| Save your breath guys, he isn't going to listen no matter what you say. At this point, he's just trying to convince himself that he knows better than 53,140 individuals, and that's just including the people who rated it a 10. I would add everything up from those who rated an 8 or even a 9 and above, but that would just be a waste of time as my point still stands. Save your sanity, I beg of you. And Aardwolf, if you want to come after me after saying this then be my guest-- just as long as you actually say something worthwhile, and backed up by evidence. Cite it if you have to. |
Draconix814 said: Save your breath guys, he isn't going to listen no matter what you say. At this point, he's just trying to convince himself that he knows better than 53,140 individuals, and that's just including the people who rated it a 10. I would add everything up from those who rated an 8 or even a 9 and above, but that would just be a waste of time as my point still stands. Save your sanity, I beg of you. And Aardwolf, if you want to come after me after saying this then be my guest-- just as long as you actually say something worthwhile, and backed up by evidence. Cite it if you have to. Pack it up boys, Kimi no Na wa is the greatest animated movie ever because 247,965 people gave it a 10. And don't disagree since obviously they know better! You talk to me about lacking arguments and then bring shit like this, like wtf. No need to "come after you" (why do Berserk fans have to take their favourite manga being bashed so personally? holy shit), I know you will already ignore all my arguments and act like you know better (just like last time, where you ignored my reply). According to you no criticism of Berserk's story and characters is worthwhile, lol. |
Aardwolf94Apr 19, 2018 9:21 PM
Aardwolf94 said: Draconix814 said: Save your breath guys, he isn't going to listen no matter what you say. At this point, he's just trying to convince himself that he knows better than 53,140 individuals, and that's just including the people who rated it a 10. I would add everything up from those who rated an 8 or even a 9 and above, but that would just be a waste of time as my point still stands. Save your sanity, I beg of you. And Aardwolf, if you want to come after me after saying this then be my guest-- just as long as you actually say something worthwhile, and backed up by evidence. Cite it if you have to. Pack it up boys, Kimi no Na wa is the greatest animated movie ever because 247,965 people gave it a 10. And don't disagree since obviously they know better! You talk to me about lacking arguments and then bring shit like this, like wtf. No need to "come after you" (why do Berserk fans have to take their favourite manga being bashed so personally? holy shit), I know you will already ignore all my arguments and act like you know better (just like last time, where you ignored my reply). According to you no criticism of Berserk's story and characters is worthwhile, lol. You're acting like you're a super genius because you can apparently see what thousands of people cannot. The reason I said, "I would add everything up from those who rated it an 8 or 9" because chances are the people who do so are also criticizing Berserk for different reasons but can see the appeal and depth of the story even if they aren't huge fans of it. Even they would say that all of your arguments are bullshit. That said, I counted a good amount of dedicated Berserk fans who know the series like the back of their hand and gave you their time with very reasonable and well-constructed arguments. Yet you get butthurt whenever someone gives you a contrary opinion, and the only thing you can muster is simple and vague criticisms that just makes you sound like an edgy teenager that gets a high off of telling people they're wrong. Though it is genuinely hilarious that you jumped to "no criticisms of Berserk and its story" from "back up your claims with evidence". LOL |
yeah my heart sank and so relieved when i saw this |
Draconix814 said: Aardwolf94 said: Pack it up boys, Kimi no Na wa is the greatest animated movie ever because 247,965 people gave it a 10. And don't disagree since obviously they know better! You talk to me about lacking arguments and then bring shit like this, like wtf. No need to "come after you" (why do Berserk fans have to take their favourite manga being bashed so personally? holy shit), I know you will already ignore all my arguments and act like you know better (just like last time, where you ignored my reply). According to you no criticism of Berserk's story and characters is worthwhile, lol. You're acting like you're a super genius because you can apparently see what thousands of people cannot. The reason I said, "I would add everything up from those who rated it an 8 or 9" because chances are the people who do so are also criticizing Berserk for different reasons but can see the appeal and depth of the story even if they aren't huge fans of it. Even they would say that all of your arguments are bullshit. That said, I counted a good amount of dedicated Berserk fans who know the series like the back of their hand and gave you their time with very reasonable and well-constructed arguments. Yet you get butthurt whenever someone gives you a contrary opinion, and the only thing you can muster is simple and vague criticisms that just makes you sound like an edgy teenager that gets a high off of telling people they're wrong. Though it is genuinely hilarious that you jumped to "no criticisms of Berserk and its story" from "back up your claims with evidence". LOL So again, if someone bashes something like Kimi no Na wa/some other popular shit it means they are stupid because clearly the majority likes it. Thats a stupid argument and shows how dumb Berserk fans can really get really get since they are not used to their favourite manga being bashed. Its sad really, your posts reek of insecurity and butthurt. Sry mate but I don't join any circlejerks and bandwagons and you shouldn't either. When you give something a 8 or 9 that means the criticism you have for it isn't anything really bad & you are still a fan so of course they would disagree with me. How about the people who gave it a 5 and less? They would agree with me (at least some of my points) or are you just ignoring them because they aren't the majority? If there was an entry for the GA arc specifically I would give it a 10 but post Conviction there is just no depth, its shallow garbage as I explained multiple times so it deserves nothing more than a 2 (extra harsh because of good it used to be). Yeah some did, others got butthurt like you ("can't respond to any of the posts civilly because of how retarded and worst of all, redundant they are") but some did want to have a mature discussion and I replied to them with my own arguments. We disagreed clearly and that's fine. And nothing vague about my points, I even mentioned proper examples for each of them but of course to someone who thinks his shitty opinion is a fact (and supports it with shit like "majority agrees with me") also can't understand them. Just stop already. Ignore my posts if you can't handle them |
Aardwolf94Apr 20, 2018 8:52 AM
Draconix814 said: Save your breath guys, he isn't going to listen no matter what you say. I would, but sometimes it's fun to see how long it takes for people like this to ignore me. Sadly, it didn't take very long this time. No worries, though, this is exactly why I don't waste time writing detailed posts unless someone asks for them. :) |
Aardwolf94 said: Draconix814 said: You're acting like you're a super genius because you can apparently see what thousands of people cannot. The reason I said, "I would add everything up from those who rated it an 8 or 9" because chances are the people who do so are also criticizing Berserk for different reasons but can see the appeal and depth of the story even if they aren't huge fans of it. Even they would say that all of your arguments are bullshit. That said, I counted a good amount of dedicated Berserk fans who know the series like the back of their hand and gave you their time with very reasonable and well-constructed arguments. Yet you get butthurt whenever someone gives you a contrary opinion, and the only thing you can muster is simple and vague criticisms that just makes you sound like an edgy teenager that gets a high off of telling people they're wrong. Though it is genuinely hilarious that you jumped to "no criticisms of Berserk and its story" from "back up your claims with evidence". LOL So again, if someone bashes something like Kimi no Na wa/some other popular shit it means they are stupid because clearly the majority likes it. Thats a stupid argument and shows how dumb Berserk fans can really get really get since they are not used to their favourite manga being bashed. Its sad really, your posts reek of insecurity and butthurt. Sry mate but I don't join any circlejerks and bandwagons and you shouldn't either. When you give something a 8 or 9 that means the criticism you have for it isn't anything really bad & you are still a fan so of course they would disagree with me. How about the people who gave it a 5 and less? They would agree with me (at least some of my points) or are you just ignoring them because they aren't the majority? If there was an entry for the GA arc specifically I would give it a 10 but post Conviction there is just no depth, its shallow garbage as I explained multiple times so it deserves nothing more than a 2 (extra harsh because of good it used to be). Yeah some did, others got butthurt like you ("can't respond to any of the posts civilly because of how retarded and worst of all, redundant they are") but some did want to have a mature discussion and I replied to them with my own arguments. We disagreed clearly and that's fine. And nothing vague about my points, I even mentioned proper examples for each of them but of course to someone who thinks his shitty opinion is a fact (and supports it with shit like "majority agrees with me") also can't understand them. Just stop already. Ignore my posts if you can't handle them I can totally handle them because there's nothing to handle-- where is your evidence? You seem hell-bent on convincing us that you're right, then you tell us to ignore you, and in the midst of all of this, you still haven't said anything other than oversimplified and subjective (not objective) criticisms feelings. You then go on a tangent in an attempt to strawman the people criticizing your opinions and then you cry about them and say that everyone else is getting butthurt "because they are Berserk fans and can't handle other's opinions". If that isn't edgy af, then you aren't a human being. The world doesn't revolve around you, you know. Your opinions aren't factual or evident in any sort of manner and if you want so desperately to prove that you are correct, then cite your evidence. You are 110% allowed to dislike Berserk, but what I do not tolerate are lies or claims with no factual evidence. If you really want to prove your opinion to us so badly-- which you aren't convincing anybody, by the way, a sign that your arguments hold no merit whatsoever-- then go through every book of Berserk and cite the exact lines, pages, situations etc. in context with the rest of the story and tell us how exactly it fails as a work of art. I'm waiting. |
LunaLena said: Draconix814 said: Save your breath guys, he isn't going to listen no matter what you say. I would, but sometimes it's fun to see how long it takes for people like this to ignore me. Sadly, it didn't take very long this time. No worries, though, this is exactly why I don't waste time writing detailed posts unless someone asks for them. :) A very wise move indeed. I commend thou wit, struggler. And good fortunes in forums to come. |
Draconix814 said: Aardwolf94 said: So again, if someone bashes something like Kimi no Na wa/some other popular shit it means they are stupid because clearly the majority likes it. Thats a stupid argument and shows how dumb Berserk fans can really get really get since they are not used to their favourite manga being bashed. Its sad really, your posts reek of insecurity and butthurt. Sry mate but I don't join any circlejerks and bandwagons and you shouldn't either. When you give something a 8 or 9 that means the criticism you have for it isn't anything really bad & you are still a fan so of course they would disagree with me. How about the people who gave it a 5 and less? They would agree with me (at least some of my points) or are you just ignoring them because they aren't the majority? If there was an entry for the GA arc specifically I would give it a 10 but post Conviction there is just no depth, its shallow garbage as I explained multiple times so it deserves nothing more than a 2 (extra harsh because of good it used to be). Yeah some did, others got butthurt like you ("can't respond to any of the posts civilly because of how retarded and worst of all, redundant they are") but some did want to have a mature discussion and I replied to them with my own arguments. We disagreed clearly and that's fine. And nothing vague about my points, I even mentioned proper examples for each of them but of course to someone who thinks his shitty opinion is a fact (and supports it with shit like "majority agrees with me") also can't understand them. Just stop already. Ignore my posts if you can't handle them I can totally handle them because there's nothing to handle-- where is your evidence? You seem hell-bent on convincing us that you're right, then you tell us to ignore you, and in the midst of all of this, you still haven't said anything other than oversimplified and subjective (not objective) criticisms feelings. You then go on a tangent in an attempt to strawman the people criticizing your opinions and then you cry about them and say that everyone else is getting butthurt "because they are Berserk fans and can't handle other's opinions". If that isn't edgy af, then you aren't a human being. The world doesn't revolve around you, you know. Your opinions aren't factual or evident in any sort of manner and if you want so desperately to prove that you are correct, then cite your evidence. You are 110% allowed to dislike Berserk, but what I do not tolerate are lies or claims with no factual evidence. If you really want to prove your opinion to us so badly-- which you aren't convincing anybody, by the way, a sign that your arguments hold no merit whatsoever-- then go through every book of Berserk and cite the exact lines, pages, situations etc. in context with the rest of the story and tell us how exactly it fails as a work of art. I'm waiting. So wait, when I bash Berserk its all subjective (I never said it wasn't btw) but when you circlejerk it to death with stupid arguments (Majority likes it! its retreading the same ground as the GA arc so it must be good etc.) its somehow objective and a fact? Can you get any more delusional & dumb? And now you have the nerve to act like the mature one who is preaching me about things like my opinions not being factual (when you are the one acting like Berserk being a perfect masterpiece is the absolute truth)? GTFO I have already posted my detailed arguments in the previous thread & explained again and again why I think this series sucks ass now & replied to your "arguments" each time. You are the one deflecting them each time and acting like a salty kiddo who can't deal with different opinions and can't properly discuss things. Look at the previous thread for proof. I said it goes to shit post Conviction and explained why, you started to say no, its still great and I'm dumbing down shit. When I explained again, you just deflected and instead of replying to my points, started talking about how post Conviction retreads the same ground as the GA arc etc & how my arguments are "retarded". When I again explained why that doesn't matter at all since the execution is important (and its bad now), you just ignored it and whined about how salty the thread is. I won't repeat the same arguments again, sick of that. If you want to reply, do it in the other thread but you will probably just get butthurt again & bring in other manga and stupid majority arguments. You are the one who needs to post something worthwhile here instead of going on the same old childish triggered rants. And just because I'm not convincing die hard Berserk fanboys (wasn't expecting it anyway, just wanted to see if others agree and what arguments fans have) doesn't mean my arguments aren't valid. Again thats one shitty argument to make (surprise surprise, hardcore Berserk fans think my criticism is bs). You need to get out of this echo chamber and realize that despite sadly being a minority, there are people who don't like the direction this series has taken. |
Aardwolf94Apr 20, 2018 2:17 PM
LunaLena said: Draconix814 said: Save your breath guys, he isn't going to listen no matter what you say. I would, but sometimes it's fun to see how long it takes for people like this to ignore me. Sadly, it didn't take very long this time. No worries, though, this is exactly why I don't waste time writing detailed posts unless someone asks for them. :) Well glad I didn't reply then, was about to. Knew you were biased from the get go though, thanks for proving it |
Aardwolf94 said: Draconix814 said: I can totally handle them because there's nothing to handle-- where is your evidence? You seem hell-bent on convincing us that you're right, then you tell us to ignore you, and in the midst of all of this, you still haven't said anything other than oversimplified and subjective (not objective) criticisms feelings. You then go on a tangent in an attempt to strawman the people criticizing your opinions and then you cry about them and say that everyone else is getting butthurt "because they are Berserk fans and can't handle other's opinions". If that isn't edgy af, then you aren't a human being. The world doesn't revolve around you, you know. Your opinions aren't factual or evident in any sort of manner and if you want so desperately to prove that you are correct, then cite your evidence. You are 110% allowed to dislike Berserk, but what I do not tolerate are lies or claims with no factual evidence. If you really want to prove your opinion to us so badly-- which you aren't convincing anybody, by the way, a sign that your arguments hold no merit whatsoever-- then go through every book of Berserk and cite the exact lines, pages, situations etc. in context with the rest of the story and tell us how exactly it fails as a work of art. I'm waiting. So wait, when I bash Berserk its all subjective (I never said it wasn't btw) but when you circlejerk it to death with stupid arguments (Majority likes it! its retreading the same ground as the GA arc so it must be good etc.) its somehow objective and a fact? Can you get any more delusional & dumb? And now you have the nerve to act like the mature one who is preaching me about things like my opinions not being factual? GTFO I have already posted my detailed arguments in the previous thread & explained again and again why I think this series sucks ass now & replied to your "arguments" each time. You are the one deflecting and acting like a butthurt kiddo who can't deal with different opinions and can't properly discuss things. Look at the previous thread. I said it goes to shit post Conviction and explained why, you started to say no, its still great and I'm dumbing down shit. When I explained again, you just deflected and instead of replying to my points, started talking about how post Conviction retreads the same ground as the GA arc etc. When I again explained why that doesn't matter at all since the execution is important (and its bad now), you just ignored it and whined about how salty the thread is. And just because I'm not convincing die hard Berserk fanboys (wasn't expecting it anyway) doesn't mean my arguments aren't valid. You need to get out of this echo chamber and realize that despite being a minority, there are people who don't like the direction this series has taken. Dude, I've seen what you've done to the other people who replied to you (you twisted their argument to suit your narrative like you're doing here), so why wouldn't I try different angles to explain my arguments? And thank you for proving my point. You just admitted your points were subjective. Now that we got that out of the way, do all of your feelings for a series directly apply to everyone else's? Of course they don't. Yet you insist that because you don't like it, it is definitively bad. For example, you said that Isidro is annoying (annoying is a subjective term), and that he gets "no development" (which I still haven't seen you cite evidence of without resorting to vague oversimplifications of the events that transpired in the past 20 volumes), therefore he is a shit character. Your arguments are littered with so many logical fallacies that I get a headache when I read them, that's why I didn't respond. In fact, you commit the (1) Circular Reasoning fallacy, you commit the (2) Argument from Ignorance fallacy, you commit the (3) Argument from Personal Incredulity fallacy (your subjectivity, basically), and most sinfully, the (4) Argument of Repetition fallacy along with others such as (5) Hasty Generalizations and (6) Personal Attack/ Praise. https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/fallacies_list.html ---Repeating/ asserting (4) hasty generalizations (5) based off of your own subjectivity (3) and lack of understanding of the content (2), praising others who agree with your own opinion and attacking others with different opinions, (6) DOES NOT make you objectively correct. (Themes and messages inherent to the story too, though interpretable, are only recognized if they have evidence supporting it) You know, you are right about one thing though, Aardwolf, that the majority isn't always right. That said, you don't seem to consider why so many people in the majority think the way they do. To bring up an example, Religion is such a big thing because no one at the time they were created knew what the world around them was and needed to feel like they were safe. They created stories that were incredibly idealistic, prophecies of stuff that already happened or never have a chance of happening and everyone bought into it and continued with their lives, ignorant of the truth everyone around them was pushing. But Berserk is not a religion or anything of the sort-- in fact, it bashes religion with its atheistic themes. Berserk is about defying fate among everything else-- and while that has a great appeal on its own, it wouldn't hold up as a piece of fiction if Guts just walked around, then killed the God Hand to defy the fate they branded him with. Instead, Guts prioritizes Casca, the only one whom he had romantic feelings forever; Shierke leaves the Holy See; Isidro stops being a thief to become a swordsman like Guts; Shierke finds her own path where witchcraft can be used for good, and even in the earlier chapters, Casca defied fate by being a female general, and soon find her sense of self before it was stripped away from her. To say that everything post-Conviction is inferior to the Golden Age Arc is blatantly ignoring how well it builds off of it and that's what I meant when I said it "tracked the same ground", I meant that Guts is finding his own path, and is doing it in a very similar way that Griffith did in the Golden Age arc with the context wholly different. Griffith betrayed his comrades because of his broken ambition, but Guts would never betray the people who have helped him along his journey as he wants something more meaningful than a kingdom with riches inside. This has been building up since the time Guts walked out on Griffith to find his own path in life. Unlike the Bible, which was ultimately used to control people with its intense idealism despite being a work of fiction, Berserk has no intent nor motive to lie to the viewer and in doing so millions have been attracted to the series for literally decades-- its reign being legendary as a result. Something like that doesn't happen if there is no meaning at all, and you can't just attribute it to the Golden Age Arc, even hardcore fans will turn against a series if it doesn't live up to the appeal and deliver new core messages with natural pace. Berserk has consistent characters, themes, and it's storytelling techniques have only been getting better and more complex since Miura started. I just made everything incredibly clear for you, Aardwolf, this is your last chance. If you really can't see your own errors in judgment after reading this then you really cannot be helped. I would like to thank you for giving me an excuse to learn more about logical fallacies, though. If you don't reply with something worthful, however, then you can be sure I won't reply back so if you are going to repeat the same argument with no variation or evidence like I gave you here, then you might as well save your breath too. |
Draconix814Apr 20, 2018 3:55 PM
Draconix814 said: Aardwolf94 said: So wait, when I bash Berserk its all subjective (I never said it wasn't btw) but when you circlejerk it to death with stupid arguments (Majority likes it! its retreading the same ground as the GA arc so it must be good etc.) its somehow objective and a fact? Can you get any more delusional & dumb? And now you have the nerve to act like the mature one who is preaching me about things like my opinions not being factual? GTFO I have already posted my detailed arguments in the previous thread & explained again and again why I think this series sucks ass now & replied to your "arguments" each time. You are the one deflecting and acting like a butthurt kiddo who can't deal with different opinions and can't properly discuss things. Look at the previous thread. I said it goes to shit post Conviction and explained why, you started to say no, its still great and I'm dumbing down shit. When I explained again, you just deflected and instead of replying to my points, started talking about how post Conviction retreads the same ground as the GA arc etc. When I again explained why that doesn't matter at all since the execution is important (and its bad now), you just ignored it and whined about how salty the thread is. And just because I'm not convincing die hard Berserk fanboys (wasn't expecting it anyway) doesn't mean my arguments aren't valid. You need to get out of this echo chamber and realize that despite being a minority, there are people who don't like the direction this series has taken. Dude, I've seen what you've done to the other people who replied to you (you twisted their argument to suit your narrative like you're doing here), so why wouldn't I try different angles to explain my arguments? And thank you for proving my point. You just admitted your points were subjective. Now that we got that out of the way, do all of your feelings for a series directly apply to everyone else's? Of course they don't. Yet you insist that because you don't like it, it is definitively bad. For example, you said that Isidro is annoying (annoying is a subjective term), and that he gets "no development" (which I still haven't seen you cite evidence of without resorting to vague oversimplifications of the events that transpired in the past 20 volumes), therefore he is a shit character. Your arguments are littered with so many logical fallacies that I get a headache when I read them, that's why I didn't respond. In fact, you commit the (1) Circular Reasoning fallacy, you commit the (2) Argument from Ignorance fallacy, you commit the (3) Argument from Personal Incredulity fallacy (your subjectivity, basically), and most sinfully, the (4) Argument of Repetition fallacy along with others such as (5) Hasty Generalizations and (6) Personal Attack/ Praise. https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/fallacies_list.html ---Repeating/ asserting (4) hasty generalizations (5) based off of your own subjectivity (3) and lack of understanding of the content (2), praising others who agree with your own opinion and attacking others with different opinions, (6) DOES NOT make you objectively correct. (Themes and messages inherent to the story too, though interpretable, are only recognized if they have evidence supporting it) You know, you are right about one thing though, Aardwolf, that the majority isn't always right. That said, you don't seem to consider why so many people in the majority think the way they do. To bring up an example, Religion is such a big thing because no one at the time they were created knew what the world around them was and needed to feel like they were safe. They created stories that were incredibly idealistic, prophecies of stuff that already happened or never have a chance of happening and everyone bought into it and continued with their lives, ignorant of the truth everyone around them was pushing. But Berserk is not a religion or anything of the sort-- in fact, it bashes religion with its atheistic themes. Berserk is about defying fate among everything else-- and while that has a great appeal on its own, it wouldn't hold up as a piece of fiction if Guts just walked around, then killed the God Hand to defy the fate they branded him with. Instead, Guts prioritizes Casca, the only one whom he had romantic feelings forever; Shierke leaves the Holy See; Isidro stops being a thief to become a swordsman like Guts; Shierke finds her own path where witchcraft can be used for good, and even in the earlier chapters, Casca defied fate by being a female general, and soon find her sense of self before it was stripped away from her. To say that everything post-Conviction is inferior to the Golden Age Arc is blatantly ignoring how well it builds off of it and that's what I meant when I said it "tracked the same ground", I meant that Guts is finding his own path, and is doing it in a very similar way that Griffith did in the Golden Age arc with the context wholly different. Griffith betrayed his comrades because of his broken ambition, but Guts would never betray the people who have helped him along his journey as he wants something more meaningful than a kingdom with riches inside. This has been building up since the time Guts walked out on Griffith to find his own path in life. I just made everything incredibly clear for you, Aardwolf, this is your last chance. If you really can't see your own errors in judgment after reading this then you really cannot be helped. I would like to thank you for giving me an excuse to learn more about logical fallacies, though. If you don't reply with something worthful, however, then you can be sure I won't reply back so if you are going to repeat the same argument with no variation or evidence like I gave you here, then you might as well save your breath too. Well unlike you I'm not delusional enough to pretend my opinion is a fact (yours isn't either), that was just another butthurt overreaction from you. And when did I say they apply to everyone else? I think Isidro is a garbage character, never said you have to think that way. Again you are the one who accused me of dumbing down things and spreading lies, having retarded arguments etc. just because I have a different opinion. And no you got a headache because you can't handle people bashing Berserk. I explained exactly why Isidro is a shit character. Your only defense of his character was that he is a kid (as if that excuses anything, we already had more compelling realistic kid characters like Guts when he was young or Jill) and that he had development since he became nicer to his group. Again like I said before, how is that nearly enough after 20 volumes & ridiculous amount of screentime? He is still overall the same obnoxious brat (who behaves like a Shounen protagonist) that he was back then, he never matured and his relationship with Guts was never explored in any meaningful way. I also explained why his character was unrealistic in a harsh world (with his annoying Shounen esque dream of becoming the best swordsman and naive personality) like Berserk where he would need to struggle, face real danger and could never just survive so easily (before he met Guts). It makes no sense that an overconfident, cocky kid like him hasn't faced any real level of misfortune or hardship in battle. The question remains, how isn't he a bad character? He adds nothing to the overall story and is only there for comic relief. You only need to compare him with Jill who was basically a minor character in comparison, yet much more realistic and interesting. Her relationship with Rosine was deeper than any from Isidro, her dream of wanting to run away but ultimately deciding to face her problems (like how her father treated her) was fantastic development. No I considered it and it really seems like people still rate Berserk so highly because of the masterpiece that is the GA arc and aren't as harsh as they should be (in my opinion, before you get upset again) with the rest of the series (particularly once Guts gets his new group) since for me its as clear as it gets..the series went downhill hard after Conviction (which was already flawed compared to GA). Again in theory this would mean Berserk is great throughout but the execution sadly falls short, just like I explained before... Guts prioritizing Casca was fantastic development, yet dragged out for 18+ volumes and as a result his character became stale (the last time Guts got proper development was when he accepted his group). Guts finding his own path should be great but it isn't because none of his new relationships wit his new group are interesting, compared to the way his relationships with Griffith, Casca and hell even someone like Corkus were since there is no real conflict, no meaningful exploration. They just all love each other and thats it. Farnese leaving the Holy see was also great for her character development. The problem is again that it was just too rushed. Just because she leaves the Holy See shouldn't mean that she just forgets about her dark desires that she had since a long time (like getting off on people burning..) and suddenly be 100% nice and good. It would have been much more interesting for her to struggle with her bad desires and previous life. Isidro stopping with being a thief would be great if it was actually shown that his life as a simple thief was difficult, if his life after leaving his village was harsh (as it should be, a kid running around in a Berserk esque world alone?) and then of course his relationship with Guts was explored in an meaningful way and he became a more mature character. Thats all I asked for and got a bad shallow trope in return who behaves like Naruto. What errors? Do you want me to suddenly agree with you and say Berserk is a perfect masterpiece? Not going to happen and it would be great if you could accept that people just have different opinions and the world doesn't revolve around you (basically take your own advice?), not to mention actually read my posts properly since I already explained most of this before. |
Aardwolf94Apr 20, 2018 4:42 PM
Aardwolf94 said: Well glad I didn't reply then, was about to. I'm sure you were, after all it's only been several days! Good to know I saved you some time too. Win for everyone! :) Aardwolf94 said: Knew you were biased from the get go though, thanks for proving it And yet you were still planning to respond? Aww, that's sweet. That's odd, though, that you're willing to spend time writing long posts for other people who are "biased", but not for me, especially now that I've "proved" my bias. Should I be sad about being left out? :D |
LunaLena said: Aardwolf94 said: Well glad I didn't reply then, was about to. I'm sure you were, after all it's only been several days! Good to know I saved you some time too. Win for everyone! :) Aardwolf94 said: Knew you were biased from the get go though, thanks for proving it And yet you were still planning to respond? Aww, that's sweet. That's odd, though, that you're willing to spend time writing long posts for other people who are "biased", but not for me, especially now that I've "proved" my bias. Should I be sad about being left out? :D Its more because the shitty artstyle now (and to just respond to one of your points, I never claimed that it was a fact, its shitty for me. thats all) is the least of my problems with Berserk. How in general the story and characters went downhill post Conviction is much worse & way more important and I was discussing that with the others. And I know I'm not better than the others since I responded like a dick, just because they started it but I mentioned that only because you seemed to call me out and not the others (hence the bias I was talking about). Btw I'm curious to which of my points you agree with? |
People here still trying to argue with this wall of a troll like |
At least that guy gets somewhere lol. |
Draconix814Apr 22, 2018 9:25 AM
Aardwolf94 said: Its more because the shitty artstyle now (and to just respond to one of your points, I never claimed that it was a fact, its shitty for me. thats all) is the least of my problems with Berserk. How in general the story and characters went downhill post Conviction is much worse & way more important and I was discussing that with the others. Despite your disclaimer, when you say "it's because of the shitty artstyle," you are stating it as if it is a fact, not as if it's just your opinion. That is why people (including myself) keep reminding you that your objections are subjective. Same goes for "how the story and characters went downhill post-Conviction," that is your opinion. If you learn to re-phrase your statements less dogmatically, you might find that people respond less hostilely to you. You may not realize it, but the way you state things is inherently insulting to others and puts them on the defense, so while you may not technically be the first person to start calling names, you are in fact firing the first shots of the war. Aardwolf94 said: And I know I'm not better than the others since I responded like a dick, just because they started it but I mentioned that only because you seemed to call me out and not the others (hence the bias I was talking about). I'm calling you out about it because you are pretty much the only consistent poster here to attract name-calling, and there's an obvious reason for that. I hate to quote Dr. Phil because the man is something of a fraud, but there's some truth to this observation of his: "YOU are the common denominator in all your relationships." Have you ever thought that maybe the reason you get the reactions you do is not because everyone else is butthurt, but because of something YOU are doing? You are, of course, completely free to disregard me and keep doing as you like (not like I can do anything, right? :) ), but don't be surprised or act all "well they started it" innocent when people continue to respond negatively to you. It's kind of akin to hovering your finger near someone's face and saying "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you" and then crying foul when they tell you to knock it off. Aardwolf94 said: Btw I'm curious to which of my points you agree with? Pardon my asking, but why does it matter? :) I'm not trying to be twee or flippant, I mean that as a sincere question. Why does it matter to you? Is it because you just want some kind of justification, something you can point to and say "see, I'm right! *Someone* agrees with me!"? Is it because you would like to discuss Berserk with me? Or is it some other reason? I actually enjoy having long intellectual discussions about things I like that include much referring to source materials and theorizing about potential clues to future plot developments, but I also need to know that, if I'm going to go to that effort, someone else is actually going to read and hopefully respond in a thoughtful manner. So far nothing I have seen of your posts makes me think that this will be the case, hence my asking why you want to know. Aw, come on, let me have my fun :D |
LunaLena said: Aardwolf94 said: Its more because the shitty artstyle now (and to just respond to one of your points, I never claimed that it was a fact, its shitty for me. thats all) is the least of my problems with Berserk. How in general the story and characters went downhill post Conviction is much worse & way more important and I was discussing that with the others. Despite your disclaimer, when you say "it's because of the shitty artstyle," you are stating it as if it is a fact, not as if it's just your opinion. That is why people (including myself) keep reminding you that your objections are subjective. Same goes for "how the story and characters went downhill post-Conviction," that is your opinion. If you learn to re-phrase your statements less dogmatically, you might find that people respond less hostilely to you. You may not realize it, but the way you state things is inherently insulting to others and puts them on the defense, so while you may not technically be the first person to start calling names, you are in fact firing the first shots of the war. Aardwolf94 said: And I know I'm not better than the others since I responded like a dick, just because they started it but I mentioned that only because you seemed to call me out and not the others (hence the bias I was talking about). I'm calling you out about it because you are pretty much the only consistent poster here to attract name-calling, and there's an obvious reason for that. I hate to quote Dr. Phil because the man is something of a fraud, but there's some truth to this observation of his: "YOU are the common denominator in all your relationships." Have you ever thought that maybe the reason you get the reactions you do is not because everyone else is butthurt, but because of something YOU are doing? You are, of course, completely free to disregard me and keep doing as you like (not like I can do anything, right? :) ), but don't be surprised or act all "well they started it" innocent when people continue to respond negatively to you. It's kind of akin to hovering your finger near someone's face and saying "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you" and then crying foul when they tell you to knock it off. Aardwolf94 said: Btw I'm curious to which of my points you agree with? Pardon my asking, but why does it matter? :) I'm not trying to be twee or flippant, I mean that as a sincere question. Why does it matter to you? Is it because you just want some kind of justification, something you can point to and say "see, I'm right! *Someone* agrees with me!"? Is it because you would like to discuss Berserk with me? Or is it some other reason? I actually enjoy having long intellectual discussions about things I like that include much referring to source materials and theorizing about potential clues to future plot developments, but I also need to know that, if I'm going to go to that effort, someone else is actually going to read and hopefully respond in a thoughtful manner. So far nothing I have seen of your posts makes me think that this will be the case, hence my asking why you want to know. Aw, come on, let me have my fun :D Thats silly because I shouldn't need to add "imho" after every sentence, never even pretended that any of this was a fact. In fact its the other users trying to make their opinions on Berserk (that its a masterpiece throughout) seem like the objective truth and getting worked up because I don't agree with their arguments. Well you are again just looking at it from a biased perspective. I only attract that because I'm the only one here bashing Berserk, did you notice that part? Why would fans get angry at other fans? The truth is Berserk fans are not used to seeing their favourite manga being trashed, since its one of the most highly acclaimed and loved manga's in the whole community. And when someone does it, the result isn't good.. Because I have seen others agree with me on other forums regarding specific parts, curious to see which one's you agree with. And tbh you wouldn't even be the first one here, at least 2 other users agreed with me here to an extent (not completely). Well as long as you stay civil and don't get worked up, I won't either. As you can see from my previous thread, I was actually trying to discuss things in a calm manner. And while I did go overboard later on, I still did try explain each of my points |
Berserk fans seeing someone who thinks its not the perfect masterpiece that they think it is & isn't convinced by their weak arguments = must be a troll. lol, hilarious, as always |
Aardwolf94 said: Berserk fans seeing someone who thinks its not the perfect masterpiece that they think it is & isn't convinced by their weak arguments = must be a troll. lol, hilarious, as always No, you're just retarded is all. Aardwolf94 said: Thats silly because I shouldn't need to add "imho" after every sentence, never even pretended that any of this was a fact. In fact its the other users trying to make their opinions on Berserk (that its a masterpiece throughout) seem like the objective truth and getting worked up because I don't agree with their arguments. Well you are again just looking at it from a biased perspective. I only attract that because I'm the only one here bashing Berserk, did you notice that part? Why would fans get angry at other fans? The truth is Berserk fans are not used to seeing their favourite manga being trashed, since its one of the most highly acclaimed and loved manga's in the whole community. And when someone does it, the result isn't good.. Because I have seen others agree with me on other forums regarding specific parts, curious to see which one's you agree with. And tbh you wouldn't even be the first one here, at least 2 other users agreed with me here to an extent (not completely). Well as long as you stay civil and don't get worked up, I won't either. As you can see from my previous thread, I was actually trying to discuss things in a calm manner. And while I did go overboard later on, I still did try explain each of my points Have you ever thought we're trying to explain why it is critically acclaimed instead of assuming it's all because we're stereotypical butthurt assholes who can't take other's opinions? And if you have a right to trash Berserk and disagree with other's opinions, then we have a right to do the same to yours. And you AREN'T the only one who trashes Berserk for any sort of reason, you're just the one making the biggest stink about it, and that's why we're all responding to you. I am disregarding the nature of opinions in this post-- I am just addressing your own logical fallacies and misconceptions. |
Draconix814 said: Aardwolf94 said: Berserk fans seeing someone who thinks its not the perfect masterpiece that they think it is & isn't convinced by their weak arguments = must be a troll. lol, hilarious, as always No, you're just retarded is all. Aardwolf94 said: Thats silly because I shouldn't need to add "imho" after every sentence, never even pretended that any of this was a fact. In fact its the other users trying to make their opinions on Berserk (that its a masterpiece throughout) seem like the objective truth and getting worked up because I don't agree with their arguments. Well you are again just looking at it from a biased perspective. I only attract that because I'm the only one here bashing Berserk, did you notice that part? Why would fans get angry at other fans? The truth is Berserk fans are not used to seeing their favourite manga being trashed, since its one of the most highly acclaimed and loved manga's in the whole community. And when someone does it, the result isn't good.. Because I have seen others agree with me on other forums regarding specific parts, curious to see which one's you agree with. And tbh you wouldn't even be the first one here, at least 2 other users agreed with me here to an extent (not completely). Well as long as you stay civil and don't get worked up, I won't either. As you can see from my previous thread, I was actually trying to discuss things in a calm manner. And while I did go overboard later on, I still did try explain each of my points Have you ever thought we're trying to explain why it is critically acclaimed instead of assuming it's all because we're stereotypical butthurt assholes who can't take other's opinions? And if you have a right to trash Berserk and disagree with other's opinions, then we have a right to do the same to yours. And you AREN'T the only one who trashes Berserk for any sort of reason, you're just the one making the biggest stink about it, and that's why we're all responding to you. I am disregarding the nature of opinions in this post-- I am just addressing your own logical fallacies and misconceptions. Well looking at your reactions at my posts, you are definitely a stereotypical butthurt asshole & dumb insecure blind fanboy, lol. But yeah you did try to explain it but your arguments were just very weak and not very convincing. You can trash my opinions, the problem is how butthurt you Berserk tards get. I mean it can be observed from the previous thread and this one, each time it was one of your type who got so worked up & started throwing cheap insults (I just responded in a way that fits). Its laughable and pathetic. I'm clearly the only one here who does it (the only other user who thinks it went downhill post Conviction still thinks its the "GOAT"), of course I'm not the only one in general, many of my arguments are actually the typical one's that "haters" mention (but still sadly we are the minority) No, its more like you don't have any actual strong arguments and each time ignore my posts (like the previous one where I explained in detail why I think Isidrio is a garbage character and why retreading the same ground as GA etc. means shit if the execution is garbage) & instead take the easy way out and focus on other bs. I don't think this is worth continuing but it seems like you all just can't let go so I'll keep replying because its interesting. |
Aardwolf94Apr 22, 2018 1:22 PM
| so we are currently on hiatus? |
 |
Aardwolf94 said: Draconix814 said: No, you're just retarded is all. Have you ever thought we're trying to explain why it is critically acclaimed instead of assuming it's all because we're stereotypical butthurt assholes who can't take other's opinions? And if you have a right to trash Berserk and disagree with other's opinions, then we have a right to do the same to yours. And you AREN'T the only one who trashes Berserk for any sort of reason, you're just the one making the biggest stink about it, and that's why we're all responding to you. I am disregarding the nature of opinions in this post-- I am just addressing your own logical fallacies and misconceptions. Well looking at your reactions at my posts, you are definitely a stereotypical butthurt asshole & dumb insecure blind fanboy, lol. But yeah you did try to explain it but your arguments were just very weak and not very convincing. You can trash my opinions, the problem is how butthurt you Berserk tards get. I mean it can be observed from the previous thread and this one, each time it was one of your type who got so worked up & started throwing cheap insults (I just responded in a way that fits). Its laughable and pathetic. I'm clearly the only one here who does it (the only other user who thinks it went downhill post Conviction still thinks its the "GOAT"), of course I'm not the only one in general, many of my arguments are actually the typical one's that "haters" mention (but still sadly we are the minority) No, its more like you don't have any actual strong arguments and each time ignore my posts (like the previous one where I explained in detail why I think Isidrio is a garbage character and why retreading the same ground as GA etc. means shit if the execution is garbage) & instead take the easy way out and focus on other bs. I don't think this is worth continuing but it seems like you all just can't let go so I'll keep replying because its interesting. On what grounds is the pacing bad and execution is shit? The only arguments you threw out there repeatedly was that it was dragging on after Conviction, and rushed beforehand. Meanwhile you said that the Golden Age arc was perfectly paced in every respect. How do you define good pacing? My definition of good pacing is sufficient build up to turning points in the narrative in context with the story itself. The Eclipse was the first HUGE turning point in the narrative, and it built up for around 9 volumes. All for a betrayal, a rape scene and massacre, mind you. But now, instead of another encounter with the God Hand, we're building up to the encounter with Idea of Evil (AKA God), which SHOULD feel like a monumental feat considering the scale and broadness of the idea it is named after and by the very nature of it having FULL CONTROL over causality. What boggles me more is that one of your biggest complaints are the new characters and their "lack of development", but when you look back at the Golden Age arc, the ONLY characters that developed are Guts, Griffith and Casca. You can fact check me on this. Everyone else kinda just reacted to their development accordingly and that was it. Compare that to Conviction and Falcon of the Millennium Empire, where we have multiple different characters developing at the same time as the plot moves to finding a way to protect and save Casca. After Conviction, multiple new demons for Femto's new army got introduced, new conflicts with significance for the future are introduced, and Guts gets new companions out of necessity, as they all try to live with their newfound struggles. And EVERYONE in that new cast has developed in some way, like I told you before. Also, you're acting like all of these new characters have had consistent panel time for development. Like I said before, there are a bunch of chess pieces moving at once, which means that slow build up to the true character-defining moments are required. If they're all bunched up with little build up, it will BREAK consistency and viewer engagement. All of these flaws in your arguments and much more is why they will never be anything more than subject. Because they aren't supported by reality. Believe it or not, opinions have to hold up to scrutiny for it to be considered valuable in any respect. This is why theories are so valuable in our community and our society, depending on the context. You can't just go up to a scientist and say that the Big Bang theory is false because it is just a theory, just like you can't say that one's opinion (especially a popular one) is false because you don't agree with it. You've now said that YOUR OPINION IS SUBJECTIVE MULTIPLE TIMES NOW SO THERE'S NO EXCUSE. You can disagree with someone else's opinion all you want, but if you have no grounds for your claims then you are better off hitting the curb. I've expressed to you already that the reason I hesitate to respond to your posts is because of your logical fallacies... Draconix814 said: Dude, I've seen what you've done to the other people who replied to you (you twisted their argument to suit your narrative like you're doing here), so why wouldn't I try different angles to explain my arguments? And thank you for proving my point. You just admitted your points were subjective. Now that we got that out of the way, do all of your feelings for a series directly apply to everyone else's? Of course they don't. Yet you insist that because you don't like it, it is definitively bad. For example, you said that Isidro is annoying (annoying is a subjective term), and that he gets "no development" (which I still haven't seen you cite evidence of without resorting to vague oversimplifications of the events that transpired in the past 20 volumes), therefore he is a shit character. Your arguments are littered with so many logical fallacies that I get a headache when I read them, that's why I didn't respond. In fact, you commit the (1) Circular Reasoning fallacy, you commit the (2) Argument from Ignorance fallacy, you commit the (3) Argument from Personal Incredulity fallacy (your subjectivity, basically), and most sinfully, the (4) Argument of Repetition fallacy along with others such as (5) Hasty Generalizations and (6) Personal Attack/ Praise. https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/fallacies_list.html ---Repeating/ asserting (4) hasty generalizations (5) based off of your own subjectivity (3) and lack of understanding of the content (2), praising others who agree with your own opinion and attacking others with different opinions, (6) DOES NOT make you objectively correct. (Themes and messages inherent to the story too, though interpretable, are only recognized if they have evidence supporting it) ...Not that you responded to it. And you criticize me for ignoring your posts? At least I ignore the shit other people have responded to, or the stuff I've already responded to. I understand you don't exactly have that advantage, but that all the more means that you hold the burden of proof. If you aren't going to make claims that are consistent with substantial evidence regardless of subjectivity, then regardless of the intentions of the people who criticize you, they have a right to. |
Draconix814Apr 22, 2018 2:15 PM
silversaint said: so we are currently on hiatus? No we are not. Next chapter is due April 27th. |
hellodarknesss said: Come on Casca, get ur shit together now isn't the time to go all ptsd again. I just hate that and the fact that I can't see what's gonna happen next since I was reading from the start. I don't want to have to wait fck this. I'm gonna drop it and read again in few years until 3 or 4 chapters have been released - _ - . ___ . Edit: After thinking about it, it might not be as predictable as some would think, Casca's scream could be her excitement and relief of seeing Guts for so long maybe even something else idk. But I highly doubt Miura will make Casca go crazy again, something might happen but she'll have all her head, if not that would be just ridiculous I don't see why Miura would ever choose this repetitive way of scenario. I have a feeling that the Elf Queen still has them in some sort of trance or dream. She probably did it so she'd face her demons without doing so directly. Just seems weird the way Guts was presented in her perspective. After she actually wakes up, she would only have Guts left to make amends with. BUT THAT'S JUST A THEORY. A (probably wrong) THEORY. |
Draconix814 said: silversaint said: so we are currently on hiatus? No we are not. Next chapter is due April 27th. i was sure we were gonna get hiatus as soon as Caska recovered her memory glad i was wrong |
|
| Draconix814 said: Aardwolf94 said: Well looking at your reactions at my posts, you are definitely a stereotypical butthurt asshole & dumb insecure blind fanboy, lol. But yeah you did try to explain it but your arguments were just very weak and not very convincing. You can trash my opinions, the problem is how butthurt you Berserk tards get. I mean it can be observed from the previous thread and this one, each time it was one of your type who got so worked up & started throwing cheap insults (I just responded in a way that fits). Its laughable and pathetic. I'm clearly the only one here who does it (the only other user who thinks it went downhill post Conviction still thinks its the "GOAT"), of course I'm not the only one in general, many of my arguments are actually the typical one's that "haters" mention (but still sadly we are the minority) No, its more like you don't have any actual strong arguments and each time ignore my posts (like the previous one where I explained in detail why I think Isidrio is a garbage character and why retreading the same ground as GA etc. means shit if the execution is garbage) & instead take the easy way out and focus on other bs. I don't think this is worth continuing but it seems like you all just can't let go so I'll keep replying because its interesting. On what grounds is the pacing bad and execution is shit? The only arguments you threw out there repeatedly was that it was dragging on after Conviction, and rushed beforehand. Meanwhile you said that the Golden Age arc was perfectly paced in every respect. How do you define good pacing? My definition of good pacing is sufficient build up to turning points in the narrative in context with the story itself. The Eclipse was the first HUGE turning point in the narrative, and it built up for around 9 volumes. All for a betrayal, a rape scene and massacre, mind you. But now, instead of another encounter with the God Hand, we're building up to the encounter with Idea of Evil (AKA God), which SHOULD feel like a monumental feat considering the scale and broadness of the idea it is named after and by the very nature of it having FULL CONTROL over causality. What boggles me more is that one of your biggest complaints are the new characters and their "lack of development", but when you look back at the Golden Age arc, the ONLY characters that developed are Guts, Griffith and Casca. You can fact check me on this. Everyone else kinda just reacted to their development accordingly and that was it. Compare that to Conviction and Falcon of the Millennium Empire, where we have multiple different characters developing at the same time as the plot moves to finding a way to protect and save Casca. After Conviction, multiple new demons for Femto's new army got introduced, new conflicts with significance for the future are introduced, and Guts gets new companions out of necessity, as they all try to live with their newfound struggles. And EVERYONE in that new cast has developed in some way, like I told you before. Also, you're acting like all of these new characters have had consistent panel time for development. Like I said before, there are a bunch of chess pieces moving at once, which means that slow build up to the true character-defining moments are required. If they're all bunched up with little build up, it will BREAK consistency and viewer engagement. All of these flaws in your arguments and much more is why they will never be anything more than subject. Because they aren't supported by reality. Believe it or not, opinions have to hold up to scrutiny for it to be considered valuable in any respect. This is why theories are so valuable in our community and our society, depending on the context. You can't just go up to a scientist and say that the Big Bang theory is false because it is just a theory, just like you can't say that one's opinion (especially a popular one) is false because you don't agree with it. You've now said that YOUR OPINION IS SUBJECTIVE MULTIPLE TIMES NOW SO THERE'S NO EXCUSE. You can disagree with someone else's opinion all you want, but if you have no grounds for your claims then you are better off hitting the curb. I've expressed to you already that the reason I hesitate to respond to your posts is because of your logical fallacies... Draconix814 said: Dude, I've seen what you've done to the other people who replied to you (you twisted their argument to suit your narrative like you're doing here), so why wouldn't I try different angles to explain my arguments? And thank you for proving my point. You just admitted your points were subjective. Now that we got that out of the way, do all of your feelings for a series directly apply to everyone else's? Of course they don't. Yet you insist that because you don't like it, it is definitively bad. For example, you said that Isidro is annoying (annoying is a subjective term), and that he gets "no development" (which I still haven't seen you cite evidence of without resorting to vague oversimplifications of the events that transpired in the past 20 volumes), therefore he is a shit character. Your arguments are littered with so many logical fallacies that I get a headache when I read them, that's why I didn't respond. In fact, you commit the (1) Circular Reasoning fallacy, you commit the (2) Argument from Ignorance fallacy, you commit the (3) Argument from Personal Incredulity fallacy (your subjectivity, basically), and most sinfully, the (4) Argument of Repetition fallacy along with others such as (5) Hasty Generalizations and (6) Personal Attack/ Praise. https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/fallacies_list.html ---Repeating/ asserting (4) hasty generalizations (5) based off of your own subjectivity (3) and lack of understanding of the content (2), praising others who agree with your own opinion and attacking others with different opinions, (6) DOES NOT make you objectively correct. (Themes and messages inherent to the story too, though interpretable, are only recognized if they have evidence supporting it) ...Not that you responded to it. And you criticize me for ignoring your posts? At least I ignore the shit other people have responded to, or the stuff I've already responded to. I understand you don't exactly have that advantage, but that all the more means that you hold the burden of proof. If you aren't going to make claims that are consistent with substantial evidence regardless of subjectivity, then regardless of the intentions of the people who criticize you, they have a right to. I agree with your definition of pacing, to an extent. I would add that its important that every part of the arc(s) feels vital to the overall story and the relationships of the characters. It should always be interesting, nothing should drag and take too long. The Golden Age arc in that arc was very well crafted. It builds up to the Eclipse with obvious stuff like Zodd's appearance and warning but also with exploring Guts, Griffith (and Casca's) relationships. Really every encounter and battle is important and it never feels like it goes for too long. This all happened in ca. 10 volumes. Lets compare with post Conviction Berserk. Guts sets out for Elfheim and wants to cure Casca but after the troll arc which introduced his new companions and magic, its just simply padded out for no reason. Vrtannis and the sea god shit add nothing to the "Cure Casca" story, there is no building up to that part. Instead Berserk is dragged down by focusing on the same old generic fights against shitty monsters & overall bad detours. Griffith vs Ganishka was also repetitive. After the first battle it was already obvious that Griffith is basically in god mode now and that everyone worships + he has no problems whatsoever. Instead of moving the narrative along faster, Miura wastes lots of chapters on flashy fights. The new apostle characters are also not developed at all. As a result of this padding it takes 18 fucking volumes to get to Elfheim which is simply ridiculous. There is a lot of fat that should have been trimmed but sadly Miura was milking it. And I dont think we can say that its building up to a confrontation with the idea of evil. The chapter about that was declared to be not canon by Miura so clearly he wanted to leave it more vague. Hell forget the idea of evil, none of the God Hand members were explored post Eclipse. Its not even really building up to Guts vs Griffith, since Guts currently doesn't care about revenge and has done nothing to come closer to defeating Griffith + Griffith doesnt give a fuck about him. Again 18 volumes the only thing that was achieved in Guts story is that he got some new friends, went to Elfheim and (apparently) cured Casca. Thats atrocious pacing, its like Bleach where one arc against Aizen takes like 20 volumes So? Only the main trio needed development in the GA arc. Miura was smart not to waste time on other characters. Well thats the problem, they aren't really developing in any meaningful way (especially not for being in the story since 14+ volumes ) and their relationships compared to the main trio are shallow and cliche as fuck. Like when you look at the end of the troll arc (the first arc with the shitty party) and now & you realize that not much has changed. Farnese got some new power but is still the same nice boring babysitter (who's dark desires were forgotten), Isidro is still same cocky obnoxious Shounen MC cliche, Schierke still has a crush on Guts and is the nice witch of the group who helps Guts with the Berserker armor etc. Even Guts himself who used to be a dynamic character is the same and stale as hell (again because Miura dragged out the cure casca story which meant his character couldn't move on) And thats not even mentioning all the pointless like Azan, Isma, Magnifcio who are even worse. Compare that with the Golden Age arc's beginning and end. The main trio and their relationships were developed far more, only in 9 volumes. Here we ago again. I have explained my points multiple times (why retreading the same ground as the GA arc doesn't matter if the execution sucks, why Guts new party is full of shit characters and why their relationships are so cliche, why the pacing is ass post Conviction etc.) you just keep ignoring them or try to give cheap vague excuses. Like as if making the story more expansive & adding more shit characters is any excuse for shit pacing etc. Or don't forget your "smart" argument that just because the majority likes it, it means Berserk is a masterpiece that can't be bashed. So clearly its your arguments that are weak as hell. And the only reason I have no "grounds" for my claims /why my opinion apparently isn't valuable is because you are clearly a hardcore fanboy of Berserk who disregards any sort of criticism & thinks it stays great throughout. Ever thought about that? How delusional can someone be... Nice roundabout way of saying that your opinion is somehow more valid than mine, lol at the Big Bang theory example too, jesus talk about going overboard. Don't need to respond because its again poor deflecting and shit excuses, instead of actually discussing things. Your opinion is just as subjective as mine, just because its supported by the majority doesn't make it any more valid. And you are the one who started with the personal attacks in the first place because he got butthurt that I was bashing Berserk But hey calling people "retarded" because you think their arguments are weak is justified? Good to know. |
Aardwolf94Apr 22, 2018 5:12 PM
silversaint said: i was sure we were gonna get hiatus as soon as Caska recovered her memory glad i was wrong See this thread :) https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1720775 I need my next Berserk dose quick though, so the 27th better hurry up. |
Draconix814 said: I have a feeling that the Elf Queen still has them in some sort of trance or dream. She probably did it so she'd face her demons without doing so directly. Just seems weird the way Guts was presented in her perspective. After she actually wakes up, she would only have Guts left to make amends with. BUT THAT'S JUST A THEORY. A (probably wrong) THEORY. Yeah exactly. I think (and hope) that it will get more complex than most expect. I mean the dude's got months to think over this ffs. |
hellodarknesss said: Draconix814 said: I have a feeling that the Elf Queen still has them in some sort of trance or dream. She probably did it so she'd face her demons without doing so directly. Just seems weird the way Guts was presented in her perspective. After she actually wakes up, she would only have Guts left to make amends with. BUT THAT'S JUST A THEORY. A (probably wrong) THEORY. Yeah exactly. I think (and hope) that it will get more complex than most expect. I mean the dude's got months to think over this ffs. Except for the fact that Miura said himself that he was bad at planning stuff, the way things are going now, there just has to be more to it than meets the eye. |
Draconix814 said: Except for the fact that Miura said himself that he was bad at planning stuff, the way things are going now, there just has to be more to it than meets the eye. Yeah and also the fact that he always relates the story to the events in his life, which makes things unpredictable and sometimes feels quite non-plot related imo. But this time it's kind of a big deal because it's like the end of an entire story and the start of another one so he has to come up with something really interesting and convincing for the manga to keep going for at least few hundred chapters. I just hope there'll be more to offer from Berserk and that he isn't planning and finishing it yet. Cause with this 3,4 chapters per year idk how long he could go... |
hellodarknesss said: Draconix814 said: Except for the fact that Miura said himself that he was bad at planning stuff, the way things are going now, there just has to be more to it than meets the eye. Yeah and also the fact that he always relates the story to the events in his life, which makes things unpredictable and sometimes feels quite non-plot related imo. But this time it's kind of a big deal because it's like the end of an entire story and the start of another one so he has to come up with something really interesting and convincing for the manga to keep going for at least few hundred chapters. I just hope there'll be more to offer from Berserk and that he isn't planning and finishing it yet. Cause with this 3,4 chapters per year idk how long he could go... Definitely. Also, Miura will probably die before he draws the last chapter lol. But yeah, especially Guts walking out on the Band of the Hawk was inspired by events in his life. I think Casca will definitely be healed and therefore the arc that comes after will be the last one. Miura said that the story was about 60-70% done a few years ago I think, so whatever comes next will definitely be the final showdown. that said, I'll bet some of my money (always being cautious) that Miura will be more regularly releasing chapters now that he's getting used to digital art and that he's healing Casca. This is a major plot-defining moment, so now that he needs to build up to the next one, he should be able to hurry things up. That probably doesn't mean Berserk will be ending soon though, I still think in the next decade. :/ Oh well. More Berserk rereads for me. |
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