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jgomezg said: Honestly, the manga version of Miki gets some cool moments but generally was not much of a participant in events. Let's not claim she was given a lot of importance. Her relationship with Akira was also more superficial at the start. I think the anime's version of Miki makes a lot more sense from a thematic perspective, in the context of Yuasa's story, even if I liked the original's fiery attitude. Manga Miki's relationship with Akira's is meant to be more superficial (beyond what Akira grasps and latches at her in his desperation after he believes Ryo betrayed him, not before), this wasn't accidental, it was purposeful because it was a contrast to Satan's relationship with Akira. Why do you think Akira pretty much makes it all water under the bridge when he sees Satan cry and broods over his/her crying hell for ages in Hell? Miki is the girl who always falls in love with the demon possessing Akira's corpse in all variants of Devilman, for God's sake. She did in the TV series, which started it all (it's older than the manga). Fittingly, she only becomes attracted to Akira when he demons up. jgomezg said: I disagree with the cynical idea that being nice and peaceful person is unrealistic, because many real human beings have been pacifists and helpful towards others. That contrast wasn't reflected in Miki during the manga, but in this anime it plays a role in conveying the message. Which isn't related to the manga character at all. Might as well make a new character, huh? For once I want to see Miki driving a knife into someone's skull over her preaching about peace and understanding. She tamed Devilman (Amon) in the Tv series with her multiple slaps to his face. jgomezg said: Concerning Ryo, I think Ryo only had a little more explicit "passion, conflict and empathy" in the manga. The difference is more about his level of emotional maturity before realizing he is Satan. Furthermore, this version ends up being more about the emotional limitations that prevented both Ryo and Satan, in Yuasa's perspective, from recognizing why Akira was defending humanity, while the one in the original work makes it more about the rationalization behind Satan's actions at the end. Manga Ryo (And Satan for that matter) are consumed by their grand cause (to save humans/to save demons), sacrificing their personal lives and ties as means to and end to their goal. He's very much an idealistic dangerous teenager of pre-apathetic generation. I don't care what "this version" means, if you adapt a character, you don't butcher all his characterization to make him irrecognizable to turn him into some mouthpiece of your message, go make your own anime and original story instead of trying to pass this as Devilman. Hell, make it about some bunch of OCs set in Devilman universe like that OC Miko and others that blatantly replaced the manga cast without needing any superficial connection the the canon characters. |
| @Thess Your insight on the manga is greatly appreciated :) I kept your first(?) comment in mind when I wrote my closing thought about wanting to read the manga. And in the comment which you mentioned me, you've interested me further regarding the Devilman franchise. I think the biggest failure in Crybaby is Ryo, and hearing that the manga doesn't have this problem is a bit relieving. I definitely didn't see the important of Ryo to Akira in Crybaby, unlike what you said about their relationship in the manga. Here, it just seemed like, cool, they're close childhood friends and for some reason Akira really likes Ryo and Ryo really likes Akira. DocJangarly said: tingy said: It seems like the camp is pretty split, regarding whether people liked the manga or this anime better. I'll definitely read the manga to see for myself, especially after reading Nagai's comment. He seems to be a good person and I feel like I'd like what he had to offer thematically in the manga more than Yuasa's retelling of Devilman, which has more focus on love, but fell short imo. Nagai is an interesting guy with interesting thoughts. I'll post some more from his interviews and stuff. Looking forward to them :) |
| I enjoyed this quite a bit. I approve of this anime and give it a solid 6/10. The first decent anime of 2018 I must say. |
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Here. It's a short autobiographical manga by Nagai explaining the process a little bit. |
tingy said: @Thess Your insight on the manga is greatly appreciated :) I kept your first(?) comment in mind when I wrote my closing thought about wanting to read the manga. And in the comment which you mentioned me, you've interested me further regarding the Devilman franchise. I think the biggest failure in Crybaby is Ryo, and hearing that the manga doesn't have this problem is a bit relieving. I definitely didn't see the important of Ryo to Akira in Crybaby, unlike what you said about their relationship in the manga. Here, it just seemed like, cool, they're close childhood friends and for some reason Akira really likes Ryo and Ryo really likes Akira. Absolutely love Ryo, Miki and Akira of the manga, along with the side characters. I recommend you Shin Devilman too which explores a bit more the Akira/Ryo friendship plus Ryo's romantic feelings for Akira, which is some more "lighthearted" intersequel (note the "...") about time traveling adventures between them. The reason why I love them is because they are the prototypes of the typical hero, bisohunen best friend who might become antagonist, and "the girl" of works afterward except that they went AGAINST the common stereotype before it was set. These versions instead play up the cliches formed of the types that were formed after them which makes them duller and boring to me. |
jgomezg said: At that point you are apparently introducing post-publication additions from the likes of Devilman Lady and beyond, which is: a) absolutely not what Go Nagai was thinking about when he wrote the original story back in the seventies, since the man has been honest about not writing with any grand plans for the future. b) based on your own personal interpretation of the source material, which is fair enough, yet not too relevant to a specific analysis or even a reading of the first manga. c) The manga itself, as classic as it was, doesn't need to be the only valid version of the story and Go Nagai has said that he likes seeing other people play with the elements he came up with in his stories. Let's forget the Hell part. The Neo Devilman one shot which shows the backstory and the final battle which is included in the last volume in the newest reprints, by the way. That has Akira's fixated and letting go of his grudge immediately after seeing Satan cry and switches back to call "him" Ryo (instead of Satan). Those were his last dying thoughts. Of course, it's a classic about war and stupidity. Because the two characters could have stopped anytime. The most interesting adaptations are not those which mechanically replay the original manga, but those where the director and his staff can provide an alternative view according to their own artistic views yet still maintains a sense of the original, which does not need to be identical to the letter of said printed work or, even less so, to the more wishes of the most purist side of the fanbase. That would be great if only there was one faithful adaptation of the source material available. But there's not. First OVAs come close. This is true, but we only learn about this in retrospect during the final chapters of the manga (and in future works not written at the time). Huh? Ryo's been passionate about saving humans/war cause since his introduction, Akira was the one who was wishy washy and dragged into this by Ryo's peer pressure (which Ryo felt guilty of too). Satan only appears in the last volume (and the prologue), so of course is "explored" in the last chapter. But those were traits present in the character. He also gets emotional and cries a lot even in the first volume which had kind of a messy characterization for everyone overall. I don't think that the character being changed means it was "butchered" when there is still a point to why Yuasa wanted him to be different. It wasn't something he did blindly or without any reason. I'd also argue that while there is more than one message and one interpretation to Devilman, that also applies to Devilman Crybaby. It's not just about one meaning universally accepted by all. If you completely change a character's basis to tell a different message, then yes, it's butchered, you might like the change and I understand what Yuasa wanted (and I have said it earlier too), but you can't tell me it's faithful to the original character. He should have done with "Miki", "Ryo" and "Akira," what he did with "Miko" and the delinquents, just make them new characters without trying to pretend they were the characters of Devilman set in Devilman world, there are a lot of anthologies in Devilman about new characters. Amon writer did a series about it, iirc. That would have conveyed the message he wanted better without dragging the whole "But those aren't the characters" complains. I want to like what he did because I love his sense of aesthetics, but I can't recognize the characters I love. |
| That ending was hella gay and hella tragic, def gonna comeback to this. 9/10 |
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NEGRITOTENFOLD said: ryo is a effeminate transgender baphomet with titty angelic figure with no genitals. Devilman angels are hermaphrodites and posses both genitals. But some are built more bulky and manly (Michael) and others are clearly just girls with "extra" (Satan, who is voluptuous and slim). NEGRITOTENFOLD said: akira and the blonde hair dude had that compared love hate 1997 berserk-esque griffin/guts friendship sacrifice chemistry. Miura was inspired by Devilman, same as tons many authors in the industry including CLAMP, Kaori Yuuki, Atlus and Hideaki Anno. Go Nagai is the source of inspiration of a lot not just with Devilman, but also with Mazinger (piloted mecha) and Cutie Honey (magical girls). You need to remember this manga was published in the early 70s. |
ThessJan 11, 2018 11:48 AM
| Nagai's endings always kind of suck, but they did a commendable job making this work better at least even though it was basically completely taken from the source despite how different everything else was before it. Great series overall. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
JizzyHitler said: Nagai's endings always kind of suck, but they did a commendable job making this work better at least even though it was basically completely taken from the source despite how different everything else was before it. Great series overall. Which Nagai ending are you thinking about? Just curious. |
DocJangarly said: I dont think ive liked any of his endings of the ones ive seen, devilman original, mazinger, violence jack, the worst one was devilman lady but that whole work was a disaster honestly cause it was just rape, from what ive gathered that is not anywhere near an unpopular opinion for that series.JizzyHitler said: Nagai's endings always kind of suck, but they did a commendable job making this work better at least even though it was basically completely taken from the source despite how different everything else was before it. Great series overall. Which Nagai ending are you thinking about? Just curious. I dont know im not a fan of the guy, I respect what hes done for the medium cause he is what allowed it to expand into more mature themes and stories, but I just find his writing to often times just feel half developed or at worst come off as more shock value, yes i know this was reactionary to the content of the medium at the time but that context only makes me udnerstand why its there, it doesnt make me feel any less taken aback by his use of sexualization and violence that just feels like its trying too hard. I think the reason crybaby worked for me despite being signifigantly more violent and in general fucked up to even the source is cause of yuasa's handle on the surrealistic and handling of tonal shifts. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| Well this was powerful. I can see why it inspired End of Eva. 9/10 |
JizzyHitler said: I dont think ive liked any of his endings of the ones ive seen, devilman original, mazinger, violence jack, the worst one was devilman lady but that whole work was a disaster honestly cause it was just rape, from what ive gathered that is not anywhere near an unpopular opinion for that series. You don't like Mazinger Z's ending? That's like one of the most iconic endings ever where the torch is passed to Great. Devilman Lady's ending was heeh, but I generally liked the manga throughout. |
DocJangarlyJan 11, 2018 5:18 PM
| I liked Devilman Lady once you know who show up, was a good mindscrew. Also Violence Jack had a whole deal more of squicker sexual violence, just not as frequent I suppose. |
| Well, this was ok. Certainly fun. However, I am honestly tired of this kind of ending. It has been done so many times already that now it just comes off as completely lazy and uninspired. I heard this was actually an addition to Crybaby and wasn't featured on the other Devilman versions, so this just make things worse. The ending was good enough already without the eternal return gimmick. Edit: by ending I mean the post-credits scene, not the original manga ending. |
eldritchJan 11, 2018 5:25 PM
Pincushions. I'm a long time threatening to buy one. Sticking them all over the place. Needles in window curtains. |
topazio said: Well, this was ok. Certainly fun. However, I am honestly tired of this kind of ending. It has been done so many times already that now it just comes off as completely lazy and uninspired. I heard this was actually an addition to Crybaby and wasn't featured on the other Devilman versions, so this just make things worse. The ending was good enough already without the eternal return gimmick. Huh? The ending was in the manga as well. |
I mean the very ending, the scene after the credits. |
Pincushions. I'm a long time threatening to buy one. Sticking them all over the place. Needles in window curtains. |
| Little question about the other miki, she kill her grandma and the rapper guy ? I don't know how to feel about her. |
| Tachikoma saves the day !!! |
| As a big fan of the series for nearly a decade now, I do like the show a lot. It's not perfect, but I do think it was a well done show and the last few episodes still kept a impact on me. I'm very happy that Devilman has become popular with today's anime and manga fandom. I do give the show between a 8.5/10 or 9/10. |
| Wow! That was epic. Who are the true demons?! What is it about mankind that makes us feel the need to kill each other? Broke my heart that Akira and those who supported him had to die because Ryo was a jackass. So, with this 3rd "reset" of the Earth, will the same chain of events happen again? Heaven's angels had destroyed the Earth twice already for the same reason. |
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| Because the anime should have be MechaJellyfish said: I don't understand why everyone is using the manga as a basis of everything that makes this show good or bad, an adaptation doesn't have to stick purely to the original material and just because it changed many things from the original, it doesn't mean that it's inherently worse. Not to mention the manga Crybaby originated from is literally 40 years old. Introducing the story to an entirely new audience, changes need to be made. I came into Crybaby completely fresh, I don't care what happened in the original manga, this is its own series and it should be taken as such. A lot of changes are inherently worse, and therefore prevented the show from becoming as good as it could have been. I expected Crybaby to fix some of the issues with the original manga, not make them worse. |
Hagorama said: Fuck that was really powerful, Quite literally everyone dies. Ep 9 and 10 were really great. Why Did ryo grew a pair of breasts?? A solid 8/10 for me, Art and sound were 10/10 though. If it would have had more sol moments would have given it a 10 Liked it way better than the other stuff made by science saru. Because he. they. are Satan. They had a penis and breast, meaning they weren't either male nor female. |
| I did not expect this ending... at all... I should have though. People were dying left and right... :/ |
| i cant believe i gave in to the hype... it looked quite promising at first but uhhhh im so disappointed. The best thing out of the show were those random rap sequences |
| hmm.. |
| Still heartbroken even if i expected it... kinda wish theyd include the part where Satan realises he did wrong and just imitated God by destroying humans like in the Manga before Akira is fully finished I think this anime did put an extra punch on what the manga could not pull off, with a modern twist. At the same time i do think they kinda chucked in some unnecessary nudity but whatever. I also think how Satan got his Ryo identity was better and much more straightfoward in the orig manga. Also he finally has nipples 9/10 |
Alone on a Friday night? Remember that DIO did nothing wrong! |
| Nice style, animation and all, but otherwise a huge letdown. Definitely the worst Yuasa work by far. Is it the source material? Haven't read the manga myself, but I've a feeling that there's just too much silliness thematically and in the story itself. |
orpJan 13, 2018 7:16 AM
| I love these netflix anime projects. I'm hopeful for more older manga/games adaptation from them. I really love the 1:1 manga adaptations that most of the japanese studios have been doing, but this kind of adaptation is also great when the studio can pull it off and have a good director working on it. |
| What a nihilistic, destructive tale this was. Yeah, this is definitely superior to the original source material, the manga. the plot is more self-realized with much better foreshadowing. the characterization for the cast of characters, especially for Akira, was handled much better and was much more well-written. the relationships were established and explored better. i actually felt something for Miki's death, other than pure shock. god, i wanted her to live so bad. Only downside is, the art was far superior in the manga. i'm okay with Akira's character design, i think i even like it more his original one, but Ryou's design was such a huge downgrade compared to his original, iconic design in the manga and OVA. same thing goes for Demons, too. also, the horror elements were presented better in the manga. Yuasa did the best job he could probably do. i love it when directors take control of the original source, improve it, and turn it into a better piece of work with their own vision. 10/10 |
| Yeah, i guess. It's pretty gritty and dark. Every Episode force me ask basic question about god, human, and my boner for miko. Good job Netflix. |
| God is silent. Now if only man would shut up |
| So, that after credits scene... It would appear that Satan and his demons lost to God an his Angels. Am I to assume that the charred planet is what remains of the 'old' Earth that was the battlefield, and there is a brand new Earth? It's probably not even a significant point, but I am a bit curious as to others thoughts. Having not read or previously had any exposure to the source material, the constant build of despair hit me hard. Just when I thought it would culminate with Miki's death, time goes on as humans are eradicated while Akira and Satan fight their war. I'm not really sure how I feel about the depiction of Akira's death. The way it was presented to the audience was powerful, but his death made me feel like everything was meaningless - which may have been the intent given the recurring theme of despair. What I did not like about this show is that often the plot seemed disjointed in that i may have missed key points, but that was just the way the information was presented. Overall, this was a great anime. A solid 8/10. |
| I don't see the appealing in this anime at all. I decided to watch it after all the hype people were showing in social media, but I didn't see it. It may be because I didn't read the original source, but the story in general was really meaningless, not profound at all. It's watchable at most. The animation and OSTs were really good, but the story was really cheap. I barely felt any connection with the characters presented... Wamu and Miko at most. And yet, not really. Anyway, I just felt like I had to say something after seeing so many reviews calling it a masterpiece and so on. For me, it was a 5/10. |
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| Wow. This show was the quite the emotional ride! Had just enough gore and action to satisfy my gruesome desires. Also, the music was awesome! I really did enjoy it a lot more than I thought I would, especially the last two episodes. I also like wonky running. |
TykoiaSep 23, 2019 11:12 PM
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