This post just shows the transformations for Goku throughout the series. I didn't include any of the non-transformations transformations like Super Saiyan Second Grade (Muscle Trunks vs. Cell) or Fusions, or Legendary Super Saiyan like Broly. This just focuses on Goku. This is what fans wanted right? Power levels ruined Dragon Ball Z so Super decided to focus on fighting styles like the original Dragon Ball... let's just give Goku a new form but can also turn super saiyan in the new form... and also amplify his power in the new super saiyan form.. but the new enemy is soooo strong.. we need to make base goku strong so we can have new base goku transform into new super saiyan form and amplify his power.................................. again Super fixed the power level creep by incorporating different fighting styles into the 2nd tournament arc! Seriously half the series so far has been tournaments and the other half rehashing Frieza and Future Trunks How anyone can claim Super is doing anything right baffles me |
MCA5EYOct 22, 2017 6:53 PM
| dude its a kids show and power ups or evolution is what a lot of people like anyway but i kinda agree with you although just deal with it lol |
| Why would you count Kaioken as a transformation in Super, but not in Z? Rose isn't even Goku's transformation (It's Zamasu's). This is like counting Super Perfect Cell as his transformation because he had Goku's cell . We don't even have the info about Ultra Instinct. In fact, people are arguing if it's an actual transformation or not. It's even a bigger question if he could stack Super Saiyan or not. Blue 2 and 3 don't even exist. It only FEELS like a lot because the new ones add onto the ones from Z. The only new transformation in Super are God, Blue, and arguably Ultra Instinct. 3 Forms in 110 episodes sound okay to me. Not to sound like a fanboy or anything, but the person who made the picture is grasping at the straw here. |
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MyKamiList said: Why would you count Kaioken as a transformation in Super, but not in Z? Rose isn't even Goku's transformation (It's Zamasu's). This is like counting Super Perfect Cell as his transformation because he had Goku's cell . We don't even have the info about Ultra Instinct. In fact, people are arguing if it's an actual transformation or not. It's even a bigger question if he could stack Super Saiyan or not. Blue 2 and 3 don't even exist. It only FEELS like a lot because the new ones add onto the ones from Z. The only new transformation in Super are God, Blue, and arguably Ultra Instinct. 3 Forms in 110 episodes sound okay to me. Not to sound like a fanboy or anything, but the person who made the picture is grasping at the straw here. (I made this picture, and I actually forgot to add Kaioken to Z, I fixed it) The explanation to why Goku never went SSJ + Kaioken in Z was because it was too much strain on the body, but SS God he has better control Zamasu is in Goku's body for the Rose transformation.. the explaination is that a 'god' transforms into a super saiyan which is different somehow than Goku infusing God ki energy to transform which is even stupider because Zamasu switched conscience with Goku's body so nothing about Goku's body makes him a God Ultra Instinct was already explained, it's basically perfect muscle memory.. that's it, the body reacts without Goku having to think about it.. there's nothing stopping Goku from being able to transform in this state. Super Saiyan God is red, infusing super saiyan turns blue.. nothing says that they can't transform further into 2 or 3, the only explanation right now could be they just need to train more The problem comes down to the different 'power ups' they give Goku to the point where they can pick and choose any of these to make whatever bullshit power Goku needs to have for the fight State of mind + New God Ki + Transformation + power amplification = Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3: Kaio-ken X20 |
MCA5EYOct 22, 2017 6:55 PM
Baby Vegita is the exact same concept as Rose. No one is counting that as Vegeta's transformation. Blue 2 and 3 don't exist. Just because they're theorically possible doesn't mean they exist. They're nothing more than a fan made at this point. My point with Ultra Instinct is we don't know if it's a form or a technique. If it's a technique then it's not a transformation. This is why people are debating. Kaioken is a technique, not a transformation. It makes as much sense as calling Kamehameha a transformation. Bullshit power up has been with Dragon Ball since Tao Pai Pai. There's always a way for Goku to pass his limit somehow. Not sure why you would see it as a problem now. I'd rather have these forms as possibility rather than him asspulling a new one. Edit: I doubt they would pull the "Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan Blue 3 Kaioken x20" as well. This is official production, not a fanfiction written by a kid. At worst it would be something like Ultra Instinct + Blue or Ultra Instinct + Kaioken. |
JustMonakaOct 22, 2017 7:27 PM
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| DBS in general ruined dragon ball. |
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MyKamiList said: (I made this picture, and I actually forgot to add Kaioken to Z, I fixed it) The explanation to why Goku never went SSJ + Kaioken in Z was because it was too much strain on the body, but SS God he has better control He actually did it (ssj + kaioken) against Pikkon in Z. MyKamiList said: I don't think they'll do it. They know the difference between stupidity and powerups. That's why they introduced Ultra Instinct otherwise we would've seen Goku going SSB 2 or 3. Ultra Instinct was already explained, it's basically perfect muscle memory.. that's it, the body reacts without Goku having to think about it.. there's nothing stopping Goku from being able to transform in this state. Super Saiyan God is red, infusing super saiyan turns blue.. nothing says that they can't transform further into 2 or 3, the only explanation right now could be they just need to train more The problem comes down to the different 'power ups' they give Goku to the point where they can pick and choose any of these to make whatever bullshit power Goku needs to have for the fight State of mind + New God Ki + Transformation + power amplification = Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3: Kaio-ken X20 |
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MyKamiList said: Baby Vegita is the exact same concept as Rose. No one is counting that as Vegeta's transformation. Blue 2 and 3 don't exist. Just because they're theorically possible doesn't mean they exist. They're nothing more than a fan made at this point. My point with Ultra Instinct is we don't know if it's a form or a technique. If it's a technique then it's not a transformation. This is why people are debating. Kaioken is a technique, not a transformation. It makes as much sense as calling Kamehameha a transformation. Bullshit power up has been with Dragon Ball since Tao Pai Pai. There's always a way for Goku to pass his limit somehow. Not sure why you would see it as a problem now. I'd rather have these forms as possibility rather than him asspulling a new one. Edit: I doubt they would pull the "Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan Blue 3 Kaioken x20" as well. This is official production, not a fanfiction written by a kid. At worst it would be something like Ultra Instinct + Blue or Ultra Instinct + Kaioken. Baby Vegeta literally went into their bodies and controlled them making a hybrid saiyan/truffle, Zamasu made a wish to switch bodies.. They already explained that Ultra Instinct isn't a form or technique it's a mental state I never said Kaioken was a transformation, i said it was a technique to amplify his power The reason why I see it as a problem now is because they already have a lot they can use but they keep adding more 'asspulls' like Ultra Instinct.. they keep adding all these things without developing them or trying something interesting or unique.. they made Goku red.. then they made him blue.. they made the dragon balls really really big and don't even have to search for them... they brought back Frieza.. they brought back Future Trunks... they did TWO tournament arcs... everything has been lazy and they're not even trying and people keep praising Super and that's my problem |
isekai said: dude its a kids show and power ups or evolution is what a lot of people like anyway but i kinda agree with you although just deal with it lol No, no I'm sorry you can fuck right off. Every single time Goku got a new transformation in super it accounted for next to nothing in that conflict. Transformations in super are more like a tool to drag out a fight rather than a meaningful power boost.... |
| I've surpassed your limit! |
iorn said: isekai said: dude its a kids show and power ups or evolution is what a lot of people like anyway but i kinda agree with you although just deal with it lol No, no I'm sorry you can fuck right off. Every single time Goku got a new transformation in super it accounted for next to nothing in that conflict. Transformations in super are more like a tool to drag out a fight rather than a meaningful power boost.... alright no need for personal attacks there though lol |
isekai said: iorn said: No, no I'm sorry you can fuck right off. Every single time Goku got a new transformation in super it accounted for next to nothing in that conflict. Transformations in super are more like a tool to drag out a fight rather than a meaningful power boost.... alright no need for personal attacks there though lol No No I'm not done yet let me give you a few examples. Cabba vs Vegeta Ssg and ssgss goku vs Berues Ultra instinct goku vs jurin Ssgss vegeta vs hit |
| I've surpassed your limit! |
| @Turtles_Hunter read the first 2 sentences again, I already covered it Also tournament arcs are the most overplayed fight anime trope and the fact that DBS had to rely on it twice already is just bad.. |
Isn't the topic say "Transformations Ruin The Dragon Ball Series"? And my point is "there isn't that many transformation, YOU just make it sound like a lot using the misleading picture." Ultra Instinct being mental state, not a transformation, proves my point. Rose being Zamasu's transformation means that it has absolutely nothing to do with Goku's power up. Kaioken being a technique means it's NOT related to the point you're trying to make at all. My point still stands that there're only 3 new transformations in 110 episodes, 2 if you don't count Ultra Instinct. You don't like Super, fine, it's also not a masterpiece in my eyes. As a matter of fact, I just complained about the show in the latest episode discussion. HOWEVER, you can't just making up random picture with nothing but straw and tell people not to like the show. |
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| The power levels were already ruined ever since Android Arc anyway so SS God or Ultra Instinct won't affect me anymore. |
 (っ◔◡◔)っ 𝓘 𝔀𝓲𝓼𝓱 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓪𝓵𝓵 𝓱𝓪𝓿𝓮 𝓪 𝔀𝓸𝓷𝓭𝓮𝓻𝓯𝓾𝓵 𝓭𝓪𝔂 ♥ |
Turtles_Hunter said: Also do you realise DB is litterally the show that launched the whole tournament trend inf fighting shonen. It's litterally in DB ADN. If there is one thing you can't blame DBS for, it's that it still use what he made popular. That like doing a Naruto sequel and say "What, Ninja again"... I know DB started that.. 30 YEARS AGO.. they don't need to do that anymore, they literally opened up multiple universes with near infinite possibilities of new characters and exploration and immediately blew their load by cramming dozens of characters into a tournament with competing screen time and at the end 1 (maybe 2) universe survives (oh i wonder whose going to win) |
Turtles_Hunter said: Shonen never were about who is going to win, everyone knows the heroes always end winning. It's more about how we will get there. Any, even if it was 30 years ago, and other did it, and even if it doesn't please you, having a tournament in db is still fucking legit. And to be fair, this may have been the best way to do thing. People are not supposed to travel between universe. The Beerus/Champa thing was exceptionnal since they were brother, but with the tournament, we'll probably have all planet of the 8 participating universe in the same universe, which will lead to more possibilites in term of travels. OR.. since the show is called Dragon Ball they could've.. oh i don't know.. made it so the SUPER Dragon Balls were scattered across the 7 universes (instead of splitting 7 between 2 because that's balanced and already having them collected because that's interesting...) and have to fight big bad villains and stop them from gathering them from gathering it themselves (oh look Frieza now has a more legitimate reason to team up with his counter part, and now we can see the villains that the Pride Troopers fight) in order to save all the universes involved.. and because it wouldn't be productive to send all the fighters into one universe at a time they have to split up into small teams (kinda like they're doing now, Gohan + Picolo, Krillin + 17 + 18, Vegeta, Goku) and they meet all the new and exciting characters from each of the universes and and the planets they visit are unique and not a black empty screen saver with a floating ring.. you get all the elements from the tournament arc but with more tangible stakes because everyone is racing to find them them first and the potential to die is at a higher stake due to fighting an enemy instead of a universe of which you know nothing about being instantly erased by Zen-Oh.. If I could come up with this shit in the 10 minutes to write this then the editors that handle Toriyama could've come up with something better than a 2nd god damn tournament arc after they already did one 29 episodes before the start of this current arc.. literally half of the series has been tournaments and with 112 episodes with more tournement left, that is just lazy |
Turtles_Hunter said: @MCA5EY all I see in your argumentation is "I don't like tournament, they should do something else". But tournament are legit in Dragon Ball, and the quest for the Dragon Ball hasn't played a significant part Namek Saga. Actually, only Pilaf, RR, Piccolo and Frieza arcs revolve around that. In the other arc, Dragon Ball are at best a motive. Also, note that Super Dragon Ball are divided across universe 6 and 7, and except god of destruction, Kaioshins and angels, nobody is allowed to travel accross universe. Then what's the point of calling the series Dragon Ball? Why not make the series revolving around the plot device that can literally give anyone anything they want and if put in the wrong hands could mean series trouble? tournaments have no motive.. they're just a device to test everyone's strength and to make it worse it puts rules on the fight leaving no urgency.. seriously no one is fighting like their life or their universe is on the line except Frieza and when he does everyone calls him out The problem with the Super Dragon Balls is that they wrote themselves into a corner splitting them into 6 and 7 when they literally just explained that there's 12 universes.. traveling across the universes when it's a taboo or whatever could've been a plot point which pits the Universe 6 against the Angels and they explain the danger of the Super Dragon Balls and they let them go and stop the bad guys from the other universes and the gods and angels stay nonpartisan.. You can literally hit all the same story beats that Super has now but with smarter changes, you open up the story and you don't pigeonhole yourself into a repeated trope they just used and you can space out all the new characters and give them more depth Let me ask you this.. would you be fine with a 3rd or 4th or 5th tournament arc? Does the series desperately need it again? Can you yourself not think of anything else you'd rather them do? |
MCA5EYOct 24, 2017 2:30 PM
| There's only one reply I can give to you... |
| The only transformations we got are Super Saiyan Red and Blue. The others are just power-ups. |
| I don't think new transformation ruin anything infact without transformation, its not Dragonball. Each new Dragonball series add more transformation, your chart support that so this is actually nothing new. |
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Fuckyoutoo said: I literally made an account just to say this is the dumbest shit I have ever seen. Please refrain from talking about anything anime related ever again. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. It's sad. you're right.. i thought about it too hard and gave the Toriyama/toei too much creative credit.. i should've just changed Goku's hair color again.. let's see they start off with black hair, then yellow, red, green, blue, pink, brown (great ape).. all that's left is orange, purple, whit- oh wait nevermind Goku Blanco is a new one Just because you're content with a downward trend of mediocre character designs and lazy storytelling doesn't mean i am.. i hope the anger that I instilled in you that lead to creating an account just to comment on this post, can be turned inward on yourself for serious self reflection so you can seriously ask yourself "Is Dragon Ball Super actually good?" |
| @fuckyoutoo Once upon a time Toriyama actually used to be good.. he literally started the new shonen formula.. If you want to see how high the bar has been raised just look at what My Hero Acadamia has done and then compare that to Super Also good character design ≠ complex.. I just don't want lazy 'throw dart at rainbow' hair color new 'transformation'.. I don't know what other shonen anime or any other anime you've seen but judging from how much you love Super and how childish your insults are i'm guessing you haven't seen that much to know what actually constitutes good anime, heck what even a good show in general is I look forward to your next reply in which you provide extensive research presented in a scholarly fashion as to why Super is actually good at storytelling, dialogue, animation, editing, visual style, voice acting, music score and foley, character development, choreography, special effects |
 This image is dragonball in a nutshell |
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MCA5EY said: @fuckyoutoo Once upon a time Toriyama actually used to be good.. he literally started the new shonen formula.. If you want to see how high the bar has been raised just look at what My Hero Acadamia has done and then compare that to Super Also good character design ≠ complex.. I just don't want lazy 'throw dart at rainbow' hair color new 'transformation'.. I don't know what other shonen anime or any other anime you've seen but judging from how much you love Super and how childish your insults are i'm guessing you haven't seen that much to know what actually constitutes good anime, heck what even a good show in general is I look forward to your next reply in which you provide extensive research presented in a scholarly fashion as to why Super is actually good at storytelling, dialogue, animation, editing, visual style, voice acting, music score and foley, character development, choreography, special effects Damn. Your nostalgia goggles are on so tight, it's prevented you from being able to see how stupid your own post is. |
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Strictly speaking, Dragon Ball Super in a nutshell. I agree with OP. There have been introduced so many transformations, forms, states, whatever, to the point that it's become almost a joke now, and you now just can't really tell how powerful Goku or Vegeta are, I mean, at this point both have become so freakin powerful (according to power levels) that they could simply blink and destroy a whole galaxy if they wanted. Because if only a normal super saiyan can destroy a planet, it's reasonable to think that given how much much MUCH more powerful UI or silver are. This is one of my main gripes with DBS. Z was fine because there was only one single transformation with different levels (1, 2 and 3) and there was no more. No other forms with different levels. It looked grounded. Now in Super it's become a complete joke. |
| @Hyack this is perfect @Dragonage2ftw I'm blinded by nostalgia because i don't mindlessly accept the bad dialogue and character development, sub par animation and lazy transformation ideas?? |
| GT actually did a good job with just one transformation but Super did kill everything with the power ups and transformations. |
| Yall tripping and making petty complains as always. Db has always been a transformation show. All the transformations in Super are explained as well except the Vegeta's Royal Blue form but thats it. |
Klad said: Yall tripping and making petty complains as always. Db has always been a transformation show. All the transformations in Super are explained as well except the Vegeta's Royal Blue form but thats it. ↑ Anyways, power levels were bullshit ever since they were introduced. |
Klad said: Yall tripping and making petty complains as always. Db has always been a transformation show. All the transformations in Super are explained as well except the Vegeta's Royal Blue form but thats it. Royal Blue is just Vegeta using his Super Vegeta transformation with SSB |
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Glenfinnan said: Strictly speaking, Dragon Ball Super in a nutshell. I agree with OP. There have been introduced so many transformations, forms, states, whatever, to the point that it's become almost a joke now, and you now just can't really tell how powerful Goku or Vegeta are, I mean, at this point both have become so freakin powerful (according to power levels) that they could simply blink and destroy a whole galaxy if they wanted. Because if only a normal super saiyan can destroy a planet, it's reasonable to think that given how much much MUCH more powerful UI or silver are. This is one of my main gripes with DBS. Z was fine because there was only one single transformation with different levels (1, 2 and 3) and there was no more. No other forms with different levels. It looked grounded. Now in Super it's become a complete joke. Imagine actually caring about Power Levels. |
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| To be honest in my opinon Dragon Ball Super ruined Dragon Ball Z. DBS just has Beerus character and very clean villain Goku Black. Its the same thing like before when Dragon Ball Z a little ruined Dragon Ball but DBS make it really more except some good scenes. |
MalyRBTMar 3, 2018 10:42 AM
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MalyRBT said: To be honest in my opinon Dragon Ball Super ruined Dragon Ball Z. DBS just has Beerus character and very clean villain Goku Black. Its the same thing like before when Dragon Ball Z a little ruined Dragon Ball but DBS make it really more except some good scenes. There's nothing 'clean' about Goku Black... he's a complete mess from conception to execution.. And they made a complete 180 on Beerus and turned him into a god damn cheerleader and there has yet to be a good scene in DBS |
MCA5EY said: MalyRBT said: To be honest in my opinon Dragon Ball Super ruined Dragon Ball Z. DBS just has Beerus character and very clean villain Goku Black. Its the same thing like before when Dragon Ball Z a little ruined Dragon Ball but DBS make it really more except some good scenes. There's nothing 'clean' about Goku Black... he's a complete mess from conception to execution.. And they made a complete 180 on Beerus and turned him into a god damn cheerleader and there has yet to be a good scene in DBS Hmm your right with Beerus but he become cheerleader earlier. About Black Goku check this https://aminoapps.com/c/dragonballz/page/blog/why-goku-black-zamasu-is-the-greatest-villain-in-dragonball/L2MS_8uYBQX5GRQ0oXxVgRZa38PKj2b I agreed with this and a little change my opinion because Goku Black without second Zamasu is nothing i didn't think about it before. |
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| The series was ruined in the first episode of this 'sequel'. Super is just a canon version of Dragon Ball AF. |
NurguburuMar 6, 2018 11:58 PM
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
| @MalyRBT Goku Black is still a terrible villain.. Black can't even kill Trunks, he escape to the past multiple times with Goku and Vegeta, his plan of killing the Gods of Destruction and the Kais isn't even shown and is just mentioned, but he hasn't even finished off all the 'inferior' humans either... his design is lazy, his moves are terrible (a fucking scythe.. really?).. his intentions and motivations are half-assed.. Frieza was a planet conqueror and enslaved or destroyed entire planets and systems The androids were emotionless killing machines programed to destroy Goku Cell had superiority complex that was done a lot better than Black, and had a charisma with how he acted once he achieved perfection Buu started out like a playful monster, then started becoming angrier and impatient, after he got stronger he became more like Cell, more intelligent and egotistical and then stronger and mindless Black is nothing more than Toei and Akira wanting Goku to fight an evil version of himself and trying to incorporate Future Trunks for fanservice (because before this arc Super was doing terrible ratings) and because of this they have to use time travel as a plot convenience without understanding how to write it and the whole arc comes off as bad fan fiction |
| @MCA5EY Frieza is good villian. I like how brutal and sadistic he was. Buu especially Kid Buu was awesome. He didn't need speak with anybody. He just like made destruction. Androids Arc or Cell Arc is worst for me (i know there is some perfect moments with Gohan SSJ2) because all androids, evil androids to kill Goku they just behaved like childrens more than Fat Buu. Emotionless just in Gero Plan. Cell achieved his perfection like in Gero mind but no more, no own ambitions. Something like Buu but he was to be pure evil from begining. |
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| Transformations are the best thing about Dragon Ball and DBZ actually has more transformations than Super like ascended level 1 and 2 included with ssj1, 2 and 3. Super only has two ssj transformations which are SSJ God and SSJ Blue. Kaioken and Ultra Instinct are techniques and ssj Rose is just Black's version of SSJ Blue. OP seems like he is trolling here since in the diagram for Super it includes ssj2 and 3 versions of ssj Blue which don't even exist. Trent_Dashworth said: SSJ God has absolutely nothing to do with friendship. Nowhere has it been stated that SSJ God is activated by friendship to work.Super Saiyan God is an awful friendship powerup. I know the acknowledge it as such but that doesn't change the fact that it is. MCA5EY said: Black was using Trunks to get stronger and he never saw Trunks as a major threat. Trunks only escaped into the past from fighting Black only once. It doesn't need to be shown. Humans are ants to him so it's more fun to hunt them down and kill them plus it's hard to find all the humans since they live underground and have low ki levels. Killing the Supreme Kais was top priority since the Gods of Destruction would be a major threat to him (killing a supreme Kai also kills the God of Destruction tied to said supreme Kai).@MalyRBT Goku Black is still a terrible villain.. Black can't even kill Trunks, he escape to the past multiple times with Goku and Vegeta, his plan of killing the Gods of Destruction and the Kais isn't even shown and is just mentioned, but he hasn't even finished off all the 'inferior' humans either... MCA5EY said: His design being lazy is subjective, I personally like his design. His ki scythe isn't terrible because it makes him seem like a grim reapar. His intentions and motivations aren't half assed. He wants to wipe out all mortals and become the supreme god of the Dragon Ball multiverse. Considering his true identity and the Buu saga what he has done and planned to do made perfect sense.his design is lazy, his moves are terrible (a fucking scythe.. really?).. his intentions and motivations are half-assed.. Buu saga perfectly demonstrated that and shows that Black is partly justifiable. Buu was a savage, powerful mortal who was able to teleport to U7's Otherworld and wiped out most of the Supreme Kais. Black and Zamasu put things into place so something like that would never happen again. MCA5EY said: Black isn't an evil version of Goku he is Black is nothing more than Toei and Akira wanting Goku to fight an evil version of himself |
DrGeroCreationMar 4, 2018 7:10 PM
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| @DrGeroCreation DBZ has 1 transformation and 3 different tiers Z and Super are doing the same thing with these 'half' transformations.. they both come from bad writing because they need the protagonist to power up without coming up with a new transformation.. Super Saiyan God was literally achieved by a circle jerk of 5 saiyans holding hands around Goku.. it's a friendship power up... Black never used Trunks to get stronger.. he hated the humans for being a failed creation by gods and he was too stupid to blow up the planet and couldn't defeat Trunks for some plot convenient reason.. they literally time traveled like 4-5 times while fighting Black Goku in a black gi is a lazy design. A physical scythe made from ki energy is fucking stupid.. literally any weapon used by these super power martial arts fighters is fucking stupid.. Any villain in in DB could be compared to a grim reaper just by the fact that they're mass murderers.. hell if they put Black in a fucking cloak and gave him a skull face that would be a hell of a lot better design choice than fucking pink hair His motivations for killing everyone doesn't align with his god superiority complex if he's also killing all the gods.. he would've been a better villain if he instead relied on manipulating all the 'inferior' being to fight and kill themselves.. hell it'd would've been better if instead he traveled to other universes/timelines and convinced other God's of Destruction to join his rampage DrGeroCreation said: MCA5EY said: Black isn't an evil version of Goku he is Zamasu in Goku's bodyBlack is nothing more than Toei and Akira wanting Goku to fight an evil version of himself that's literally what i just said.. Zamasu (who is evil) is in Goku's body... he's fucking Evil Goku Zamasu literally made a wish to make him invincible why the fuck couldn't they just stick with that "oh but then we wouldn't have Goku Black, because fans always wanted to know what it would be like if Goku was Evil- hold on i have an erection from writing this fan fiction about Goku fighting another Goku" - Akira/Toei |
| you can have a super saiyan blue kaio-ken x20 ultra instinct whatever goku. super saiyan keila would still beat him while beerus cheers on both. |
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| @MCA5EY . Super saiyan isn't the only transformation in Z (Cell, Frieza , Buu, Zarbon etc.also have transformations) and if you consider 2,3, ascended as just being tiers instead of transformations then in Super Goku only has SSJ God as a transformation. You not liking the transformations doesn't make them bad writing. . Non of them being Goku's friends. No where did it state that 5 super saiyans that are friends with Goku are needed for SSJ God so it isn't a friendship powerup. . Yes he was using Trunks to get stronger since there was absolutely no one else who could challenge him in Trunk's future. Fighting Goku though in the present gave him a bigger boost. How would he be too stupid to destroy the planet if Kid Buu could just randomly blow up earth and can't even speak? Intelligence isn't needed to blow up a planet. Black was hunting humans like rats and obviously gained pleasure from killing them bit by bit. You said Trunks escaped to the past multiple times which is false. He only escaped once in order to make contact with Goku and Vegeta, then he stayed back and fought Black when Goku and Vegeta escaped. Black doesn't wear a purely black gi, only his under shirt and pants are black. The sash he wears is red and the jacket is grey. His outfit is basically a fusion of Goku's gi and Zamasu's clothes which best represents him because of his true identity. Sycthes are generally used by grim reapers. Your average mass murderer doesn't use a sychte. Nothing stupid about it. Black is so good at molding ki that he can use his ki to shape ki weapons. Pink hair perfectly fits since ssj Rose is Black's version of ssj blue . Pink is the complete opposite of blue and Black is the complete opposite of Goku. He kills all the other gods because he wants to be the supreme and only god. He wouldn't want to manipulate mortals to kill each other since Zamasu sees that as being savage and he wants to be the only one to kill mortals. Gods of Destruction would have never joined him since Gods of Destruction only destroy to keep balance and don't seek to wipe out all mortals. Beerus flat out considered him a threat. You said Goku fighting an evil version of himself. Black is not Goku. A villain taking over a hero's body doesn't make the character an evil version of the hero. If Lex Luthor took over Superman's body he wouldn't be considered an evil version of Superman but just Lex in Superman's body. Ultraman on the otherhand is an evil version of Superman since he is an evil version of Superman from an alternate universe. Future Zamasu did make a wish for immortality. The Zamasu that became Black specifically wanted Goku's power not invincibility or immortality. If you are going to say that why he didn't just wish for Goku's power instead of body then it 's because he needs Goku's body for non stop zenkai power boost. |
DrGeroCreationMar 4, 2018 10:37 PM
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| If you're annoyed with the transformations, then you're just not that into Dragonball anymore. And that's okay. But this IS the show. It's always been like this. I remember people bitching and moaning about the Cell and Buu Sagas twenty years ago, and how every Saiyan could become Super Saiyan, and how it was totally played out and meaningless. And yet, the franchise persists. What you're REALLY mad about is that you don't feel the same excitement you once did for one of your favorite shows. Nostalgia will do that to you, man. But you can never go home again. P.S. - I'm still upset about SS4, the best transformation, falling into the garbage dump of history, so don't come crying to me. |
| @DrGeroCreation I never said transformations are bad writing.. shoe horning Super Saiyan God as a new transformation as canon before the ending of Z is what makes it terrible You obviously don't get the 'friendship' powerup as a concept.. the whole fighting Trunks to get stronger was never the case, Trunks is literally fan service throughout the whole arc Trunks travels back in time for help Black arrives in the past, fights and then is pulled back into the future Goku, Vegeta, Trunks go to Future, fight, lose All three go back to the past again Goku,Vegeta, Trunks, and Bulma go to future, fight, lose Goku, Vegeta, Bulma go to the past again Goku, Vegeta, Bulma go to the future again, fight, win due to Future Zeno plot convenience Goku, Vegeta, Bulma, Trunks, and Mai travel back to the past Goku, and Trunks travel back to the destroyed future, get Future Zeno The three of them travel back to the past once again Future Trunks and Mai travel back to the future you're mincing word on what any regular person would consider a black gi.. go fuck yourself the Scythe, as used by a grim reaper, in any literally work or media is an allusionary device meant to represent the taking of a life The closest Dragon Ball has ever gotten to molding ki is the Destructo Disc and that is literally just flattening the ki.. molding it into a fucking complex shape like a Scythe is beyond suspension of disbelief.. and this is coming from fucking Dragon Ball... Super is written like fan fiction.. I only suggested they should have done something different like manipulation.. You're trying really hard to not accept the fact that this arc was about Goku fighting Evil Goku.. there's no other way about it.. villain stole Goku's body and Goku has to fight himself.. That was literally the only reason Zamasu wished for Goku's body.. the writers needed it the problem with Dragon Ball as a whole is that when Dragon Ball defies it's own logic it's left up to the fans to fill in the gaps to convince themselves the logic isn't broken |
MCA5EYMar 5, 2018 5:30 PM
| @DipsterHouchebag The production team for Super is not the same as the ones for Z.. that's why the show is a giant let down for a lot of Dragon Ball fans An anime production company adapting a manga has to do a lot, from storyboarding, key framing, animation, pacing, editing, effects, dialogue, score, BGM.. and Super has none of that which Z had... pick any scene in Z and just listen to how dramatic the music is, how the dialogue is presented and compare it to Super.. it's not nostalgia, it's the lack of quality.. (I'm also upset about the SS4 transformation, it's so much better than rainbow hair) |
MCA5EYMar 6, 2018 3:22 PM
| @MCA5EY . It wasn't shoehorned since new supersaiyan forms for DBZ came out in succeeding sagas/arcs. SSJ1 in Frieza saga, ssj2 in Cell saga, ssj 3 in Buu saga. Battle of Gods arc is after Buu saga so you would expect a new super saiyan form and it makes sense for it to be called ssj god since Goku has to go up against a god of destruction. . Friendship powerup is a character getting a power boost from thinking about his or her friends. SSJ God was not activated by any kind of friendship. . Yes it was or Black would have killed Trunks long ago. Black likes fighting opponents in order to get stronger. . Goku, Vegeta, Trunks go to the future. Goku loses to Black, Trunks goes into ssj rage and tells Vegeta to leave with Goku while he fights Black and Zamasu. Trunks holds them off in the future while Goku and Vegeta later return with Bulma. In the arc Trunks only travelled to the future like 3 times which I wouldn't consider multiple. . It's a fact that it isn't a purely black gi. . No grim reaper scythes are generally not allusionary. . So a talking cat god , shape shifting pig etc. doesn't suspend your disbelief but creating a scythe from ki does? Black is far above Krillin so it's obvious he would be better at molding ki. . I explained to you why they didn't. . Black isn't an evil Goku. Zamasu wished for Goku's body because of how powerful the Goku in his timeline was. . Nothing you have been complaining about defies Dragon Ball logic. |
DrGeroCreationMar 5, 2018 7:37 PM
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