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| I mean... Trunks is one of my favorite character but I'm still utterly disappointed with this asspulled ending. Great way to ruin the only decent arc of DBS |
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Uninformed-Person said: Elder Kai said the potara fusion was permanent, and that it was the "bad atmosphere" inside Buu that caused them to unfuse! Elder Kai was wrong, and never saw mortals use the potara earrings to fuse. Goku just assumed it was the "bad atmosphere" in Buu that made them unfuse even though has no idea how the earrings work. There is never a concrete answer as to why they unfuse. With the 1 hour time limit for mortals, it now makes sense. Also Gotenks remained fused in Buu until the time limit was up which further supports this. Uninformed-Person said: Gotenks didn't unfuse right away because the fusion dance is different from the potara fusion. Headcanon. The 1 hour time limit already debunks this. Only one is more powerful than the other. Uninformed-Person said: But Zamasu fused with Goku Black who is a mortal, he should have a time limit too! What a shitty plothole! As long as one of them is a Kai, it is permanent. Uninformed-Person said: How come Trunks knows the spirit bomb? What the hell is up with the asspulls? Trunks trained with the Supreme Kai. Goku is dead, but keeps his body in the afterlife. Goku can visit the Supreme Kai's planet freely. Put two and two together, and you'll realize that Goku could have taught Trunks anything in that time. Uninformed-Person said: Oh yeah? Then why is Trunks so surprised about the spirit bomb if he knows the technique? Because he never had the chance to use it before. And it's not like Goku Black would give him the time of day to use it either, nor would it be effective when he's so weak. Uninformed-Person said: Like that matters. It still doesn't explain how Trunks as a SSJ2 could face against Goku Black Rose when he couldn't even beat SSJ3 Goku when he first went to Goku's timeline. Trunks trained with SSJB Vegeta for some amount of time, and unlocked a transformation while fighting Zamasu which seems to be related to God Ki as he could feel Vegito's ki when he turned SSJB. Trunks is much stronger than you think. Uninformed-Person said: That still doesn't explain how Trunks could fight Merged Zamasu when even Vegito couldn't defeat him. First of all, Vegito was handing his ass to him on a silver platter, and was winning the whole fight, and had he known his transformation would effect the time limit, he would have given him the Gogeta treatment. By the time Trunks stepped in to fight, Zamasu had already been driven to the brink, and weakened considerably. Also Zamasu's speed had lowered as a result of his buffing up. When Trunks dealt the final blow with his spirit sword, he borrowed the energy of everything on the planet as well as Goku's and Vegeta's, which is a pretty damn big deal. Uninformed-Person said: The spirit sword thing is still the biggest asspull ever, you can't defend it. What, you've never seen someone in DBZ form a blade out of their ki? Vegito did that like a few minutes prior. Zamasu does it. Goku Black does it. Non-canon Salza from one of the movies does it. And yet you're surprised Trunks can do it too? And combining his sword made of ki with the spirit bomb isn't that farfetched either. Informed-Person said: Even if you're right, the episode still sucks. Everyone who likes what I don't like is either joking or insane! Grow up. |
Dregora said: But they're still fusions? Attacks are different, but still the same to their core; all based on ki. Just because there are different ways to fuse, doesn't make them that fundamentally different. Stop trying to protect you beloved Vegito and Z and just start admitting Z has as much plot holes and flaws as Super does. Sorry but until this episode Potara fusion has always been portrayed as far more powerful than Fusion Dance fusion. That's why when GT was canon Super Vegeto was still more powerful than SSJ4 Gogeta. Also nice strawman. I never claimed Z had less plot holes than Super. But then again it isn't really relevant to the discussion either. |
Dregora said: Red_Ranger_Wien said: Sorry but until this episode Potara fusion has always been portrayed as far more powerful than Fusion Dance fusion. That's why when GT was canon Super Vegeto was still more powerful than SSJ4 Gogeta. Also nice strawman. I never claimed Z had less plot holes than Super. But then again it isn't really relevant to the discussion either. I didn't say it was more or less powerful? I said they're the same in how they function; they merge two people together to form one entity. Also GT was never canon, but that's another argument. You sincerely believe that Super Vegito from Z was stronger than SSJ4 Gogeta from GT..? While I believe Vegito is the superior fusion.. I do not think it's thát strong for multiple reasons, but i'm not getting into that. But anyway, if the potara was more perfect, it should've been able to resist ''buu's magic'' or w.e. you just claimed for it to happen. It makes more sense that there's a time limit for humans than it did because of Buu's poo. Okay first off until BoG was announced GT was whether we like it or not. That's not debatable. And yes, from the people who worked on Z and GT it has been established that SuperVegeto was more powerful than SSJ4 Gogeta. And it doesn't really matter if the time limit makes more sense. It's still a senseless, out of nowhere retcon that was used just so the could shove Vegeto in there but still let Trunks get the final hit in. |
Red_Ranger_Wien said: Dregora said: I didn't say it was more or less powerful? I said they're the same in how they function; they merge two people together to form one entity. Also GT was never canon, but that's another argument. You sincerely believe that Super Vegito from Z was stronger than SSJ4 Gogeta from GT..? While I believe Vegito is the superior fusion.. I do not think it's thát strong for multiple reasons, but i'm not getting into that. But anyway, if the potara was more perfect, it should've been able to resist ''buu's magic'' or w.e. you just claimed for it to happen. It makes more sense that there's a time limit for humans than it did because of Buu's poo. Okay first off until BoG was announced GT was whether we like it or not. That's not debatable. And yes, from the people who worked on Z and GT it has been established that SuperVegeto was more powerful than SSJ4 Gogeta. And it doesn't really matter if the time limit makes more sense. It's still a senseless, out of nowhere retcon that was used just so the could shove Vegeto in there but still let Trunks get the final hit in. Anime-only material when the original source material is a manga means it's non-canon. End of story. BoG is special because it was the first movie to be considered canon by Akira. |
ShinsoPriest said: Red_Ranger_Wien said: Okay first off until BoG was announced GT was whether we like it or not. That's not debatable. And yes, from the people who worked on Z and GT it has been established that SuperVegeto was more powerful than SSJ4 Gogeta. And it doesn't really matter if the time limit makes more sense. It's still a senseless, out of nowhere retcon that was used just so the could shove Vegeto in there but still let Trunks get the final hit in. Anime-only material when the original source material is a manga means it's non-canon. End of story. Not when word of God says otherwise |
Red_Ranger_Wien said: ShinsoPriest said: Anime-only material when the original source material is a manga means it's non-canon. End of story. Not when word of God says otherwise Toei animation is not word of god. Akira had no part in GT aside from designs. Stop arguing facts. |
ShinsoPriest said: Toei animation is not word of god. Akira had no part in GT aside from designs. Stop arguing facts. I was talking about Toriyama. Plus with the way the Black arc played out we now have confirmation on multiple, some unknown timelines. |
SSJ4Life said: And... ShinsoPriest,really? Trunks actually learning the Genki-dama? Meeting dead Future Goku? You're not putting 2 and 2 together, you're just trying to provide excuses to this horrible writing. And trying TOO HARD. So you don't deny that they can happen? Great. Seems you're trying too hard to hate on something you don't agree with. |
| You can hate on Super and this episode all you want, but I'm enacting the "Rule of Cool" on this one. Trunks gathering spirit energy to create a giant Cloud-esque Spirit Sword to slice Zamasu in half was fucking awesome and was much better and more fitting then Vegito Blue taking him out. |
Dregora said: Red_Ranger_Wien said: I was talking about Toriyama. Plus with the way the Black arc played out we now have confirmation on multiple, some unknown timelines. Except Toriyama called it a side story. SIDE story. It's nowhere canon. Today I learned side story = not canon. I'd more approximate what Toriyama meant as spinoff but he never said back then that it wasn't canon. |
SSJ4Life said: Red_Ranger_Wien said: #1) GT was never canon.That's why when GT was canon Super Vegeto was still more powerful than SSJ4 Gogeta. #2) Super Vegito was nowhere near SS4 Gogeta, that's beyond senseless. Why don't you provide any source to such a ridiculous statement? GT WAS, keyword here being was, canon. If you believe so strongly that it wasn't find me a source where Toriyama or someone from Toei/Shueisha says it wasn't. Potara Fusion was stated in Z to be perfect fusion and Toriyama did once say that Vegito is the strongest character in Dragon Ball so that is that. |
Dregora said: Red_Ranger_Wien said: GT WAS, keyword here being was, canon. If you believe so strongly that it wasn't find me a source where Toriyama or someone from Toei/Shueisha says it wasn't. Potara Fusion was stated in Z to be perfect fusion and Toriyama did once say that Vegito is the strongest character in Dragon Ball so that is that. I don't even think you realize what canon is, do you? Akira has NOTHING to do with GT aside from 2 of 3 designs. Not his story whatsoever. Canon = story the original storyteller, in this case Akira, made and wrote. He did not write GT, therefore not canon. It's not hard. Because by your logic, the movies would be canon too "because it was never stated otherwise'' but we both know those aren't canon either. If Toriyama says it's canon it is whether he wrote it himself or not. And we know most of the movies aren't canon because they contradict the timeline established in the anime/manga |
Dregora said: Red_Ranger_Wien said: If Toriyama says it's canon it is whether he wrote it himself or not. And we know most of the movies aren't canon because they contradict the timeline established in the anime/manga But he never SAID GT is canon. If you think he did, you should provide proof for this claim. You're the one claiming something, therefore it should be able to be proven. We cannot prove something we claim is not there. It's not canon until he stated it is, which he never did. All you have is that he once said ''it's a side story'' and even that can be massively taken out of context. So it's my interpretation of "side story" versus your interpretation of "side story" then. Which gets us nowhere. |
| GT was never canon nor did Toriyama ever say such a thing. It was a non canon continuation of DBZ and the events of GT are now usually seen as those that took place in an alternate timeline like say in Xenoverse. |
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| Wow, intense fight. Actually very awesome. Finally Zamasu started to become a real monster to deal with. I guess so long for his s*** fusion. ;) Even though the fighting were immense and epic, I still think they did a bad animation with his face. It was actualy good in the beginning, but the animation quality lacked after the fusion became weaker and his face changed more. Another negative thing is I think they rushed the ep. It would be nice to see more of Vegito fight (by the way, I really were happy when I saw Vegitio's appearance again after so many years). I think another ep. with Zamasu before his defeat would sound better. But what I really loved were his appearance. It were really good drawn. On the other side, what I really loved were that Trunks were the one to defeat him instead of Goku who is the one to do the climax. I think it's good and I also wished Trunks were the one to defeat Zamasu. Since it's his world and he should be the guy to do the climax. During this fight I loved that he fused all that Ki from people all around the world. That was a new technique I haven't seen before. I also love the new OST they used here. It were intense and good. So this ep. ended Zamasu arc I guess. Next time it's farewell with Future Trunks. :( |
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scabab said: The 15% of people who gave it a 1 don't deserve to watch anything else that comes out of this franchise again. People cried their eyes out after Episode 5 and everyone jumped on the "the animation sucks" bandwagon and they give an episode like this with great animation and people still need to cry over something. People would have loved this episode if it was back in DBZ but nobody can enjoy anything in this day and age. I don't think animation is the only thing these guys are mad about. I mean can you really rate this ep. high? I agree some of the animation in this ep. were good. Like Vegitio's first appearance and Trunks fight in the end. But Zamasu animation in this ep. were horrible. The drawing and the face expression could make me puke. Beside the animation, the Vegito fusion were wayyy too short. It could have lasted a bit longer. I think all these events should have been done with two ep. I also agree with people here that how the hell can Trunks learn stuff he have never seen or know the technique of. Like the collecting the KI of all the persons on earth and the Mafuba technique. I think that some back story about this events would be muuuuuuuch better than how they are doing this. But I totally agree it doesn't deserve 1. So you have a good point there. I think 3,5 is a good rate. Too bad you can't rate half's too. |
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ShinsoPriest said: Uninformed-Person said: Elder Kai said the potara fusion was permanent, and that it was the "bad atmosphere" inside Buu that caused them to unfuse! Elder Kai was wrong, and never saw mortals use the potara earrings to fuse. Goku just assumed it was the "bad atmosphere" in Buu that made them unfuse even though has no idea how the earrings work. There is never a concrete answer as to why they unfuse. With the 1 hour time limit for mortals, it now makes sense. Also Gotenks remained fused in Buu until the time limit was up which further supports this. Uninformed-Person said: Gotenks didn't unfuse right away because the fusion dance is different from the potara fusion. Headcanon. The 1 hour time limit already debunks this. Only one is more powerful than the other. Uninformed-Person said: But Zamasu fused with Goku Black who is a mortal, he should have a time limit too! What a shitty plothole! As long as one of them is a Kai, it is permanent. Uninformed-Person said: How come Trunks knows the spirit bomb? What the hell is up with the asspulls? Trunks trained with the Supreme Kai. Goku is dead, but keeps his body in the afterlife. Goku can visit the Supreme Kai's planet freely. Put two and two together, and you'll realize that Goku could have taught Trunks anything in that time. Uninformed-Person said: Oh yeah? Then why is Trunks so surprised about the spirit bomb if he knows the technique? Because he never had the chance to use it before. And it's not like Goku Black would give him the time of day to use it either, nor would it be effective when he's so weak. Uninformed-Person said: Like that matters. It still doesn't explain how Trunks as a SSJ2 could face against Goku Black Rose when he couldn't even beat SSJ3 Goku when he first went to Goku's timeline. Trunks trained with SSJB Vegeta for some amount of time, and unlocked a transformation while fighting Zamasu which seems to be related to God Ki as he could feel Vegito's ki when he turned SSJB. Trunks is much stronger than you think. Uninformed-Person said: That still doesn't explain how Trunks could fight Merged Zamasu when even Vegito couldn't defeat him. First of all, Vegito was handing his ass to him on a silver platter, and was winning the whole fight, and had he known his transformation would effect the time limit, he would have given him the Gogeta treatment. By the time Trunks stepped in to fight, Zamasu had already been driven to the brink, and weakened considerably. Also Zamasu's speed had lowered as a result of his buffing up. When Trunks dealt the final blow with his spirit sword, he borrowed the energy of everything on the planet as well as Goku's and Vegeta's, which is a pretty damn big deal. Uninformed-Person said: The spirit sword thing is still the biggest asspull ever, you can't defend it. What, you've never seen someone in DBZ form a blade out of their ki? Vegito did that like a few minutes prior. Zamasu does it. Goku Black does it. Non-canon Salza from one of the movies does it. And yet you're surprised Trunks can do it too? And combining his sword made of ki with the spirit bomb isn't that farfetched either. Informed-Person said: Even if you're right, the episode still sucks. Everyone who likes what I don't like is either joking or insane! Grow up. Nice that someone have really analyzed this in a bit better way. I don't remember so much of DBZ since it's so long time ago I watched the series. But nice analyzing. With reading you comment, the only thing I get disappointed with is there is no backstory of it. Yes, maybe he have learned it in the time when he was back on Earth in our present time, but come on we could see some flashbacks of it instead of showing it right there technique right here and now. I don't know what you think about the ep., but without being a whiner or a kiddo who can't acknowledge something that is actually half ok, I think the ep. were a bit rushed. personally I think it would have been a lot better if there were some flashbacks and all these events/fights were split between 2 ep. :) |
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Dregora said: ShinsoPriest said: So you don't deny that they can happen? Great. Seems you're trying too hard to hate on something you don't agree with. It's not that it can't happen, but there's no evidence it did happen. And con't pull the super manga into this, because the manga doesn't apply to the anime. they're two different outtakes on the same story, fundamentally different in a lot of ways. In the manga, Kaioken never happend. In the manga, Godku fought hit and he can still turn to the red god form. Don't pull the manga into this to prove you're right. As far as we know, Trunks pulled it all out of his ass in the anime, because there's no indication he ever trained. thát much. His power was a ssj2 at best, couldn't even best ssj3 Goku. The form he gained is an ass pull to put him on equal footing. Now, I liked the asspull, because I do not care for powerlevels that much anymore, but it's still an ass pull nontheless. I agree that it comes out of nowhere as there's no explanation in the anime. But it's better to make sense of it than just letting it slide. I'd accept the possibilities of it happening rather than absolutely no reason. Like say if Trunks were to suddenly use an unheard of ability absolutely no one knows. The spirit sword is similar to the spirit bomb, so the possibility is there. Just not shown. It's not like Trunks couldn't have met Supreme Kai as Trunks knew about and defeated Dabura and Babidi. Goku and his friends wouldn't have known had Supreme Kai not shown up to warn them. |
Dregora said: Red_Ranger_Wien said: So it's my interpretation of "side story" versus your interpretation of "side story" then. Which gets us nowhere. No, it's merely that unless Akira specifically stated so, it's not canon. It's not canon until proven otherwise. Yes, and to me side story implies that Toriyama thought of it as canon |
Red_Ranger_Wien said: Dregora said: No, it's merely that unless Akira specifically stated so, it's not canon. It's not canon until proven otherwise. Yes, and to me side story implies that Toriyama thought of it as canon You can believe what you want, but it's a fact that GT was always non-canon. And everyone who's worth their salt will tell you the exact same thing. |
Rilind said: bxyhxyh said: Just nitpick here. When it's said that to become "blue" you need 5 other saiyans? It's to become "Red" one. And I see no Super Saiyan Red Vegeta Blue is the super saiyajin version of a super saiyajin god. It even says so in the name Super Saiyajin God Super Saiyajin. Episode 27 06:55 Muten Roshi: Unbelievable! Vegeta's obtained the power of a Super Sayajin God, too?! 07:01 Goku: Yeah. And unlike me, he didnt borrow the strength of other saiyajins. Ok. We can make assumption from these two sentences. But it's fact that Super Saiyan Red was completely different form. Red Aura, Red Hairs, Skinny form. And I don't think that blue is upgrade of Red or something. As I say previously, to become RED he needed other saiyans. Unless there is Super Saiyan RED Vegeta appears and he didn't take 5 saiyans' powers, we can't say that he turned into super saiyan god form without taking 5 saiyans. nameskizo said: My biggest problem with this show is the inconsistency... They could've atleast made SSJ blue Vegito a citybuster or something lol. Consistency is lost when Goku couldn't stand in 20G gravity.While he pushed mountain when he was a child. He could take 20x of his weight easily Or Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta with no effort and to defeat him Goku used spirit bomb strong enough to destroy planet Namek. Then Cell supposed to be much stronger and tougher guy, takes one punch almost dies. But nothing happens. No shockwave, nothing. This is what happens when author can't imagine their power level thing. Just spurts nonsense like "He's stronger" "I'm stronger" "I surpassed super saiyan" bullshits. DB was most consistent thing among them all. |
bxyhxyhNov 15, 2016 12:25 PM
Sorry for my bad English. |
bxyhxyh said: Rilind said: Blue is the super saiyajin version of a super saiyajin god. It even says so in the name Super Saiyajin God Super Saiyajin. Episode 27 06:55 Muten Roshi: Unbelievable! Vegeta's obtained the power of a Super Sayajin God, too?! 07:01 Goku: Yeah. And unlike me, he didnt borrow the strength of other saiyajins. Ok. We can make assumption from these two sentences. But it's fact that Super Saiyan Red was completely different form. Red Aura, Red Hairs, Skinny form. And I don't think that blue is upgrade of Red or something. As I say previously, to become RED he needed other saiyans. Unless there is Super Saiyan RED Vegeta appears and he didn't take 5 saiyans' powers, we can't say that he turned into super saiyan god form without taking 5 saiyans. Wow, you seem like the type who simply has to be right, even with proof that he isnt? Then allright. Feel free to be "right" |
bxyhxyh said: nameskizo said: My biggest problem with this show is the inconsistency... They could've atleast made SSJ blue Vegito a citybuster or something lol. Consistency is lost when Goku couldn't stand in 20G gravity.While he pushed mountain when he was a child. He could take 20x of his weight easily Or Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta with no effort and to defeat him Goku used spirit bomb strong enough to destroy planet Namek. Then Cell supposed to be much stronger and tougher guy, takes one punch almost dies. But nothing happens. No shockwave, nothing. This is what happens when author can't imagine their power level thing. Just spurts nonsense like "He's stronger" "I'm stronger" "I surpassed super saiyan" bullshits. DB was most consistent thing among them all. I thought the inconsistent scale of destruction was due to how ki is manipulated. Roshi can blow up the moon, but we know he's not strong enough to fight against Piccolo. They're pretty much just condensing their ki so the damage inflicted is much greater while not blowing themselves up in the process. Kid Buu obviously doesn't give a damn so planet goes boom. That's my headcanon at least. Also weight lifting =/= how much gravity your body as a whole can handle |
Rilind said: Wow, you seem like the type who simply has to be right, even with proof that he isnt? Then allright. Feel free to be "right" Yeah, I'm that kind of guy. And where is the proof? except those sentences that would confuse people? Then first explanation to Frieza is "Saiyan with a power of Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan" Not just Super Saiyan God. That is shouting "it's not Super Saiyan God form. But it has powers of it. So I don't need 5 other saiyans and long ass ceremony." Weight lifting IS gravity thing you know. He just couldn't lift his body. Gravity "pulls" things down. Gravity defines weight. If that scene Goku couldn't stand was biological thing he would lose his conscious caused by blood going down. But he just couldn't lift his body. On biologicol scale except blood, his muscles taking 20x pressure which is not much compared to that big rock Goku moved Ok. I can agree with blowing thing is Ki related. But still consistency is lost in DBZ not in Super as these guys say. |
bxyhxyhNov 15, 2016 1:16 PM
| Sorry for my bad English. |
bxyhxyh said: Weight lifting IS gravity thing you know. He just couldn't lift his body. Gravity "pulls" things down. Gravity defines weight. If that scene Goku couldn't stand was biological thing he would lose his conscious caused by blood going down. But he just couldn't lift his body. On biologicol scale except blood, his muscles taking 20x pressure which is not much compared to that big rock Goku moved Ok. I can agree with blowing thing is Ki related. But still consistency is lost in DBZ not in Super as these guys say. That still wouldn't mean that all the muscles in his body would be used to moving under high gravity. Like how someone wouldn't magically be able to sprint in water just because they can lift heavy stuff. |
Kai_Mikoshi said: 1: Gowasu said only supreme kais, not mortals. - How does Gowasu know about the limit when he has possibly never met any other species other than his own till now? An answer I can't wait to be revealed. - Gowasu contradicted his 1 hour statement after Vegitos limit ends, adding; " His energy was too much for the potaras I think" . Alas, making the Potaras more useless and baffling. 2: It could be easily explained that Gotenk didn't unfuse due to being wrapped up in Buus absorbing goo. - It was strongly implied that Vegito unfused due to being inside Buu. Vegitos barrier ends as soon as the 1 hour time limit ends? Too convenient, it's a retcon. - Elder kai also added that the Fusion dance was a poor imitation of the Potara rings. Making this 1 hour limit an obvious, poor retcon for the sake of Trunks finishing blow. 3: Supreme kai doesn't know how the Spirit bomb works, nor was it ever implied that Trunks knows about the Spirit bomb. Since it was never used in the Cell saga by Goku. Plus, future Goku was dead in Trunk's timeline. Also, it took Goku some time to learn about the Spirit. So no, this was an obvious Deus Ex Machina. 4: Good point. Zamusu was weakened from fighting Vegito. However, Trunks doesn't know how the spirit bomb works. And the people giving Trunks their energy when they don't even know how Ki blasts are executed doesn't even make the slightest sense whatsoever. 5: Trunks trained with Vegeta for a short amount of time. So again, Trunks gaining random power ups makes no sense. Though I admit, the episodes animation was fantastic, but the plot of the episode was a huge mess and a hard pill to swallow. 1. Can be learned it from previous Kais or even he might've tested it on weaklings who're not strong as Goku and Vegeta. 2. They didn't unfuse because they were swallowed while Gogeta created barriers to be prevented being swallowed. At that time, indeed it was supposed to be Boo's auro related And time limit is introduced here, but it didn't break anything. We still can argue like their limit just wore off inside Boo. And they only assumed it was because of Boo. 3. Trunks didn't "use" spirit bomb and that seemed completely unconscious thing to me. Toriyama should give explanation on this. 4. 3 included this. On that people don't know ki part, People gave powers to Goku in Boo saga while they don't know what Ki is. So DBZ isn't making sense as well? 5. You're bushing this part too much. Trunk didn't gain random power up if you meant by "semi-blue" transformation, He becomes bulky then shrinks back then blue aura appears. It seemed just next level of bulky transformation which they used it in Cell saga. And he mentioned that he trained himself after Cell event even though it wasn't really good reason to become strong as Zamasu or Goku Black. And its trigger was still anger. Can't they think of something different? Now it should've become bit softer pill to swallow lol. ShinsoPriest said: That still wouldn't mean that all the muscles in his body would be used to moving under high gravity. Like how someone wouldn't magically be able to sprint in water just because they can lift heavy stuff. High gravity is just pulling things down with more force nothing more. Ok. Water isn't puling down more like pushing it up. But I got the idea. Actually if he's strong enough, he'll still can spring in the water (eventually he would run on the water though, as i said water "pushes"). At that time he was strong enough to do withstand that gravity easily. |
bxyhxyhNov 15, 2016 2:11 PM
| Sorry for my bad English. |
ShinsoPriest said: You can believe what you want, but it's a fact that GT was always non-canon. And everyone who's worth their salt will tell you the exact same thing. It is not a fact. And you have yet to provide evidence that it is. And tbh, this thread is the first time I've ever seen someone make the claim that GT was never canon. |
Kai_Mikoshi said: 1: Gowasu said only supreme kais, not mortals. - How does Gowasu know about the limit when he has possibly never met any other species other than his own till now? An answer I can't wait to be revealed. - Gowasu contradicted his 1 hour statement after Vegitos limit ends, adding; " His energy was too much for the potaras I think" . Alas, making the Potaras more useless and baffling. 2: It could be easily explained that Gotenk didn't unfuse due to being wrapped up in Buus absorbing goo. - It was strongly implied that Vegito unfused due to being inside Buu. Vegitos barrier ends as soon as the 1 hour time limit ends? Too convenient, it's a retcon. - Elder kai also added that the Fusion dance was a poor imitation of the Potara rings. Making this 1 hour limit an obvious, poor retcon for the sake of Trunks finishing blow. 3: Supreme kai doesn't know how the Spirit bomb works, nor was it ever implied that Trunks knows about the Spirit bomb. Since it was never used in the Cell saga by Goku. Plus, future Goku was dead in Trunk's timeline. Also, it took Goku some time to learn about the Spirit. So no, this was an obvious Deus Ex Machina. 4: Good point. Zamusu was weakened from fighting Vegito. However, Trunks doesn't know how the spirit bomb works. And the people giving Trunks their energy when they don't even know how Ki blasts are executed doesn't even make the slightest sense whatsoever. 5: Trunks trained with Vegeta for a short amount of time. So again, Trunks gaining random power ups makes no sense. Though I admit, the episodes animation was fantastic, but the plot of the episode was a huge mess and a hard pill to swallow. 1: Gowasu met all sorts of mortals. It's why Zamasu has a building grudge against them in the first place. Supreme Kais can observe their entire universe. Universe 10 has events we from universe 7 don't know about. Vegito is probably the first one to unfuse before the 1 hour time limit so it surprised him. 2: It can go both ways. The barrier could be a red herring. Fusion Dance being a poor imitation implies it would more unstable, meaning there's no way it can remain fused in Buu. 3: I was implying that Goku, who is allowed to keep his body in the afterlife because of his selfless deeds, could have taught Trunks anything while Supreme Kai trained Trunks. You don't know how long he trained. Could be 9 years for all we know. Anyways, I'm surprised you think King Kai would know more than Supreme Kai. I'm well aware the anime shows nothing, it's why I'm making sense of it in the first place. 4: Trunks could have learned from Goku, see 3. So how about when Goku used the spirit bomb against kid buu, and asked everyone to lend him their energy? They clearly don't need to know how to use ki. It's a "spirit" bomb, not "ki" bomb. I doubt plants or animals know ki either. 5: Exact time isn't specified. Don't worry. It'll become easier with time. :) |
ShinsoPriestNov 15, 2016 2:16 PM
ShinsoPriest said: Red_Ranger_Wien said: It is not a fact. And you have yet to provide evidence that it is. And tbh, this thread is the first time I've ever seen someone make the claim that GT was never canon. It is a fact. And you don't need evidence to prove that water is a liquid. It's not part of the manga Akira made, therefore it's not canon. It's about as canon as anime filler and the movies. Again, it doesn't have to be in the manga to be canon. Naruto the Last Movie is canon and it isn't in Kishimoto's manga |
| Well that was...cool I think? Well despite the questionable moves, I would say I still loved this episode quite a bit, one of the better to come out of Super as of now. |
 |
Red_Ranger_Wien said: ShinsoPriest said: It is a fact. And you don't need evidence to prove that water is a liquid. It's not part of the manga Akira made, therefore it's not canon. It's about as canon as anime filler and the movies. Again, it doesn't have to be in the manga to be canon. Naruto the Last Movie is canon and it isn't in Kishimoto's manga Because Kishimoto wrote the story for Naruto the Last. Toriyama didn't write GT, Toei Animation did. Ergo, it's non-canon. Let's stop with the nonsense. It's off topic. |
ShinsoPriest said: Red_Ranger_Wien said: Again, it doesn't have to be in the manga to be canon. Naruto the Last Movie is canon and it isn't in Kishimoto's manga Because Kishimoto wrote the story for Naruto the Last. Toriyama didn't write GT, Toei Animation did. Ergo, it's non-canon. Let's stop with the nonsense. It's off topic. Toriyama said he considers GT to be part of the story. Ergo, GT used to be canon. |
Red_Ranger_Wien said: ShinsoPriest said: Because Kishimoto wrote the story for Naruto the Last. Toriyama didn't write GT, Toei Animation did. Ergo, it's non-canon. Let's stop with the nonsense. It's off topic. Toriyama said he considers GT to be part of the story. Ergo, GT used to be canon. Citation needed. |
ShinsoPriest said: Red_Ranger_Wien said: Toriyama said he considers GT to be part of the story. Ergo, GT used to be canon. Citation needed. I already linked it in this thread but here http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-book-gt-toriyama-intro/ |
Red_Ranger_Wien said: I already linked it in this thread but here http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-book-gt-toriyama-intro/ >I left the Dragon Ball anime completely up to the anime staff, story and all >Dragon Ball GT is a grand side-story of the original Dragon Ball >side-story Lol, Akira is only giving his approval of GT, he doesn't consider it a part of the main story. It's non-canon. |
| I'll take this over a Goku Ex Machina any day. I'm numb to retcons and inconsistencies across the entire franchise at this point. You wanna give Trunks the kill to complete his "I can stand on my own" arc? Fine. The Potara retcon's not so much a retcon as a clarification, given there was no finite answer as to how they unfused the first time. It's annoying, as it only makes the earrings marginally different than the dance, but now the writers can just have Vegito in their pocket, and not worry about some drastic excuse or solution like the Dragon Balls every time they might need it. I figured Vegito was a misdirect from the preview and I don't mind it. |
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