Is Moe Misogynistic?

ashfrliebert said:
somehow, this thread is even worse than the article.

Moe is just damn lazy writing, what little guys there are in moe anime are 2D shells of characters as well, so its not misogynistic, its cheap

I would love to see it when feminist blame male for the failure of Ghostbuster.
"The movie failed because of those misogynist pig"

Fai said:

Maybe just maybe the subject gets brought up because it persists as a problem? Just a thought.

Chiibi said:
My problem with this crap:

"Moe portrays female characters as weak (because BEING CUTE AND GIRLY MAKE YOU WEAK OF COURSE)", therefore, REAL men who watch these shows will continue to treat REAL women badly or expect them to act the same way as the cute moe character."

WHAT DA FACK.
I'd like to see proof of this?

Moniisek said:
“People into moé are losers in the love market.”

love market

love

market



I guess that my being perplexed by their choice of words is why I'm a loser moé trash then. In that case, I'll keep it that way.

@jal90 treat yourself to a cookie for writing that stuff about K-On!

Moniisek said:
@zal

Yes I know it's from the moe manifesto, I read the article. I'm not blaming the author though? It's just a really strange choice of words. Market is for commerce. Love&Relationships is not something we buy. Edit: or at least.... it shouldn't?

dakotasapphire said:
Right i'm not a guy, so I can't technically fap, and if you do fap to it, yes, you're kind of odd... But no big deal it's a free world.

Here's me: I love moe. Why? I don't know, there just aren't cute people outside of anime. Not that cute. It's just fun to see. Nothing wrong with it. I'm going to read the whole article now.

Emnschweiz said:
I wonder how many people saw the title of the article, had a knee-jerk reaction and started posting everywhere how SJW's want to destroy the world? I'd imagine an alarming amount. This article makes some good points about Japanese culture and misogynistic undertones in "moe." A genre (if you can call it that) that has taken anime by storm these past years.

Of course there are things I disagree with.
This blog highlights a few of them.

I wish more people would actually read the article, and not the title. There are a few of them in this thread itself. "Oh god i'm not going to read this, it's done by FEMINAZISSSS!!!" Like it's fine to disagree with this article but at least understand what's being said before you dismiss it because you're scared of being confronted or realizing something about a medium you enjoy.

OpiumSama said:
I think the whole "moe is creepy and if u watch it ur creepy" argument should die.

Emnschweiz said:
I wonder how many people saw the title of the article, had a knee-jerk reaction and started posting everywhere how SJW's want to destroy the world? I'd imagine an alarming amount. This article makes some good points about Japanese culture and misogynistic undertones in "moe." A genre (if you can call it that) that has taken anime by storm these past years.

Of course there are things I disagree with.
This blog highlights a few of them.

I wish more people would actually read the article, and not the title. There are a few of them in this thread itself. "Oh god i'm not going to read this, it's done by FEMINAZISSSS!!!" Like it's fine to disagree with this article but at least understand what's being said before you dismiss it because you're scared of being confronted or realizing something about a medium you enjoy.

Emnschweiz said:
I wonder how many people saw the title of the article, had a knee-jerk reaction and started posting everywhere how SJW's want to destroy the world? I'd imagine an alarming amount. This article makes some good points about Japanese culture and misogynistic undertones in "moe." A genre (if you can call it that) that has taken anime by storm these past years.

Of course there are things I disagree with.
This blog highlights a few of them.

I wish more people would actually read the article, and not the title. There are a few of them in this thread itself. "Oh god i'm not going to read this, it's done by FEMINAZISSSS!!!" Like it's fine to disagree with this article but at least understand what's being said before you dismiss it because you're scared of being confronted or realizing something about a medium you enjoy.

JustALEX said:


WHY would someone even care about a medium that is NOT targeted towards them?
.

JustALEX said:


Now, I won't lie, I KNOW that Twilight was criticized endlessly by males, I KNOW how much they bitched about it....

Chiibi said:


It is equally horrible for BOTH genders. XD

The only people who actually think it is "good" are ones who have not read another book series in their lives.

Or they are ignorant to how to write a book. Because Twilight is a guideline on How Not To Write A Book.

As for the rest of your post: that puts things into REALLY good perspective.

ultravigo said:

50 shades of great is greatest literature of all time,Fight me!!!

ultravigo said:

50 shades of great is greatest literature of all time,Fight me!!!

TheBrainintheJar said:
Similarly, moé gives us a large number of shows featuring well motivated female protagonists, large female casts, and a variety of relationships between female characters, effortlessly passing the Bechdel Test on a scale we can only dream of for western pop culture. However, it is all framed to cater to the male gaze–even if this is through the characters’ behaviors rather than their physical attributes.

I don't get it. So it appeals to males, then it's bad?

jal90 said:
The use of the term misogynistic here is absurd. You can't expect to be taken seriously when you have way better terms for what you are describing. Sexism, enforcement of gender roles, discrimination, whatever. Misogyny is a different thing. It has nothing to do with anything in this article.

Also loling at its example of a non-erotic series being Eiken. Yes... A series with the ecchi tag, filled with dick jokes, boobs and innuendos... Ok.

"otaku who enjoy the "little sister" character actually don't have younger sisters". Why the fuck was this considered a point. Just why. It's about as relevant as saying that the Star Wars fans have never been in another galaxy. Fiction, escapism, alternative reality. You can't turn something that works and is accepted in so many contexts into something malicious just because it fits an agenda. That is dishonest.

The text is not as bad as I expected from the comments but still has some things that are completely off, which is a pity because as Fai says what it points at is something worth thinking about. The problem in these cases is my position as a spectator. Why should I take an active part in this fight when I do not perceive the negatives associated with moe, because I have my own experience with the trope and choose what is relevant to me and how to interpret it. Is intention that relevant when I am not even in the same social and cultural context these shows come from, most of the time not even the target audience and having nothing to do with the generalizations made by the media analyzers this article quoted? Why should I care about how "creepy loner otaku" view this when I am not one, and don't see things through their perspective. I feel alienated every time moe is referred to as something inherently sexist or obsessive. That is not what my experience and interpretation dictates.


Come on, a lot of people talk about moe, to the point it's become a meme. We have stuff like this every day. MAL is just the paradise of one-liners, trolling and overreaction. And tsunderism.

AxBattler said:

Oh, no it's not. It really isn't. Otaku are simply put, hardcore fan. Unless the West has a different definition of what it is in Japanese anyway.

While it may be often associated with your anime/game/idol otaku, it is certainly not limited to it. You have gun-otaku, car-otaku, MMA-otaku. I myself consider myself snowboard-otaku since I live, breathe, and pretty much all I do during the winter. But also an anime/game otaku off-season. The negative connotation comes from the perceived obsession, but obsession and passion (which tend to have a positive connotation) are two side of the same coin. Most otaku can't be NEET or "jobless", because most things get very expensive once you get into it (few can leech millions of yens from families to feed their interests).
.

Xillya- said:


"You open a door for me? you think i can't do that?" *triggered*
"You didn't open the door for me? you look down on me because i'm woman?" *triggered*

Chiibi said:


Because they are bored and need something to complain about. >_> There's really nothing they can do about much more serious issues so they attack the "easy stuff".

It's like how soccer moms whine that video games and cartoons are too violent for their children. Well, here's a suggestion: BE A BETTER PARENT.

Don't expect media or marketing to raise your child and or bend to your selfish demands on how your gender should be portrayed because they won't.

And if a boy grows up thinking that women are weak and should be his sex slaves, it sure as hell isn't ANIME'S fault; it's the shitty environment he grew up in, raised by shitty parents who didn't teach him properly.

People LOVE to blame everything but themselves.

Fai said:
Yes it is, inherently a LOT of anime, be it moe or not, contains very sexist or misogynist themes hidden beneath it. Its the problem with the market at hand and the "otaku culture". But that's just tip of the iceberg.

Moe culture in general is more of a SYMPTOM, a symptom of consumerism-obsessed corporate culture of the industry, the purity cult and the way it is pandered to by corporations is the basis of consumer-focused otaku marketing in Japan which leads to a lot of problems like slut-shaming(because muh purity!), racism(as shown with latest miss japan contest controversy) and of course homophobia(I already talked a lot about s class yuri and all the preconceived ideas of "experimentation" that the market is trying to push, as it discriminates upon the actual lgbt community).

Its also not just misogyny, but sexism overall. As an example, we can take a traditional yaoi structure and how actual homosexual relationships are trivialized as a tittilation for fujoshi viewers.

The article is low quality b ait but it DOES scratch at a bigger problem that surrounds the anime market and why the anime quality has been steadily declining over the years.


Why is nobody talking about that? Because the anime community is generally as vicious as your average gamer and can't handle actual critique and critical discussions. So y ou have this rotten market with a lot of problems and dark things hiding behind it, but everybody pretends everything is fine.

RedaJaNai said:


Well to be fair I woudn't suprised if most feminists would argue that there's so such thing as a target audience in the first place

"Oh, you think this show is targeted towards filthy MALES?! Sexism!".......

Most feminists and SJW people would argue that there's nothing targeted towards boys/men and girls/women.

"Oh, your 5-year-old son is wearing a princess robe while playing with Barbie Dolls? I don't see any problem with that. We should be able to do LITERALLY all of what we want!"

What do you mean by target audience is a thing?

zal said:
What do you mean by target audience is a thing?

What is the problem with a 5 year kid wearing a princess robe? Are you referring to the when where the father let his kid dress like the princess from frozen and the internet exploded?

Would you have an issue with a newborn male wearing pink?

RedaJaNai said:


Oh nope. Actually I wasn't even aware of that story that apparently sparked controversy online.

To answer your question, no I wouldn't have an issue if my hypothetical son wore pink since I don't believe it's a female-only color; actually, in the US and up to the 30's, blue was considered a female color and pink a male color.

Xillya- said:
@zal
if you read the response back to that
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1551641&show=50#msg47715247
He was talking about target audience of game and anime which is mostly male. but get called sexist because stating the fact.

you can pretty much see it in the same view as
"female is a victim of rape"
implying that
-male can't be raped
-generalize that male will be happy to be rape
-*inserts any phrase that make above statement sounds hypocrite*

Xillya- said:
you can pretty much see it in the same view as
"female is a victim of rape"
implying that
-male can't be raped
-generalize that male will be happy to be rape
-*inserts any phrase that make above statement sounds hypocrite*

Maybe his was a poor choice of words but labelling games and anime as male hobbies is rather discriminatory towards females. What he did there wasn't stating facts.

Depends in what context you use "female is a victim of rape", I don't see it implying that males can't be raped, maybe "females are victims of rape" implies it more.