| It's possible that I've had an unintentionally one-sided viewing experience but, the more I look at my list, the harder it is for me to find clear cut good vs. evil stories in it, age notwithstanding. Whether it's as far back as LoGH, or as recent as the examples you've cited, almost every anime I've seen has tried to add some level of complexity to the characters' moral standing. What's easier to find are examples of protagonists who are unambiguously good, but that's about as well-defined as I've seen it get. As a matter of fact, the closest ones to definite good vs evil stories I can find are actually fairly recent: Accel World, SaO, Appleseed Alpha, Full Metal Panic, FMAB, Hunter X Hinter, the second half of Kill la Kill, Nurarihyon no Mago: Sennen Makyou Soul Eater and Shangri-La... and even those cases are arguable, to varying degrees. As far as I've noticed, the more common trend in anime seems to be to have two sides with relatively ambiguous morals (one of which are less ambiguously good) for most of the story and to introduce an unambiguously evil third party when nearing the finale, just to tie it up on a neat, good vs evil, final note. One other thing I've noticed is that, recently, there seem to be fewer anime which feature a last minute introduction of a definite bad guy, thus ending on a more ambiguous note than older anime did. |
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| This haas to do with modern philosophy and ideas about something which I don't know for sure |
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| I do like when the line between bad and good is blurred, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a dark series like those you mentioned. For example the Witch of the Waste from Howl's Moving Castle is a good example of this. In general many Ghibli movies have a peculiar and vague stance on morals, without being dark and/or gritty. |
| Because nowadays people hates the holy bible? |
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| I can still appreciate a simple good vs. evil conflict and makes clear which are on either sides. However, some shows suffer from having one-dimensional characters if the conflict is resolved in an easy manner. A conflict that's not too complex or blurred can still be well-presented, it all depends on how the characters are fleshed out and how the story may conveniently progress with respect to the presented conflict. |
| Nope. I don't wanna see clearly defined white/black or good/evil characters in my entertainment. It's cheap and should only belong to children fantasy books. More than whether a character is good or bad, i much prefer to see characters struggling to overcome something that's certainly against their principles, and characters that willing to break the law to achieve greater good, and grey characters help a lot in that regard. The very reason Batman is always much more interesting than Superman |
| It's a cliché among others that perhaps has it charm in some ways... And I suppose if executed right, a really good show can have a typical "good vs evil" setting too. But when talking of such shows, I think immidiately of clichéfilled shows like magical girl shows, shounen shows, etc... Granted, I think sailor moon is quite ok - and that's as much typical good vs evil as it gets. I mean, Queen Beryl is so stereotypically "evil" that it's hilarious. It's a pretty fun show to watch nontheless, but shows like these don't really make me fall of the chair in excitement or anything. |
Amiluhur said: Nope. I don't wanna see clearly defined white/black or good/evil characters in my entertainment. It's cheap and should only belong to children fantasy books. More than whether a character is good or bad, i much prefer to see characters struggling to overcome something that's certainly against their principles, and characters that willing to break the law to achieve greater good, and grey characters help a lot in that regard. The very reason Batman is always much more interesting than Superman Why should it only belong to children's stories? Are children not intelligent enough to understand there are shades of grey? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Amiluhur said: Nope. I don't wanna see clearly defined white/black or good/evil characters in my entertainment. It's cheap and should only belong to children fantasy books. More than whether a character is good or bad, i much prefer to see characters struggling to overcome something that's certainly against their principles, and characters that willing to break the law to achieve greater good, and grey characters help a lot in that regard. The very reason Batman is always much more interesting than Superman Superman is generally considered the first super-hero, yet he really dffers from the archetype because he actually wears a costume when he is Clark Kent and not the opposite. When Bruce Wayne hides to become Batman, he's still human, he just wants to protect his identity. When Clark Kent runs to become Superman, he acts cowardly because that's what humans do, then get rid of his human nature, fears and weaknesses to kick ass. Superman is cool, Batman is overrated. And I was a huge Batman fanboy when I was a child ;). Anyway, long-running comics are almost worst than long-running manga lol. I read some terrible Batman, Spiderman and Spawn comics. Including a laughable Batman/Spawn crossover Oo. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
| ^Kill Bill Vol.2 sure was a good movie... |
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_HeroKenzan_ said: ^Kill Bill Vol.2 sure was a good movie... Wait, did I heard that shit in Kill Bill? That's totally possible :p. Watched it once a loooong time ago. If that's the case, it's definitely my favorite part of the movie ^^. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Clebardman said: Amiluhur said: Nope. I don't wanna see clearly defined white/black or good/evil characters in my entertainment. It's cheap and should only belong to children fantasy books. More than whether a character is good or bad, i much prefer to see characters struggling to overcome something that's certainly against their principles, and characters that willing to break the law to achieve greater good, and grey characters help a lot in that regard. The very reason Batman is always much more interesting than Superman Superman is generally considered the first super-hero, yet he really dffers from the archetype because he actually wears a costume when he is Clark Kent and not the opposite. When Bruce Wayne hides to become Batman, he's still human, he just wants to protect his identity. When Clark Kent runs to become Superman, he acts cowardly because that's what humans do, then get rid of his human nature, fears and weaknesses to kick ass. Superman is cool, Batman is overrated. And I was a huge Batman fanboy when I was a child ;). Anyway, long-running comics are almost worst than long-running manga lol. I read some terrible Batman, Spiderman and Spawn comics. Including a laughable Batman/Spawn crossover Oo. What you said automatically makes Superman cooler. Spawn is also a badass. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Well, Superman definitely has a Voltair-ish "good savage meets the human world" vibe. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| The only good black and white, good vs evil stories that can be great are the ones that implement a lot of comedy. Like ONE punch man, I mean seriously, its definitely one of those, and its hilarious as hell. At least in some cases of the show. Or gurren laggan. Some stuff like that. Otherwise, we aren't undervaluing them, they're just not that good. Anyways, they've been writing morally ambiguous stories since the 1800s (or earlier) (Les miserables, The tale of two cities, etc) Black and white stories are for children, and it should stay that way. |
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| Yeah, needs good reason for evilness or why they do what they do. Can't just be,"I am evil! I want to see bad things done to the world because I like to do bad things! Muahahhahaha!" |
| I ship @Cewkie and @DarkZeroCalibur  |
| I think a better writing style always favours to humanize all characters within the story. Not making the evil for the sake of being evil character hidden. Often that causes issues, and needs to be done very well in order for it to be successful. Many shows try this and fail. Kind of a cop-out example, but I mean can you clearly label a villainous side to the war going on in Lotgh. Terraists in that show kind of fall into the lines of characters that are evil just for the sake of it, besides a few religious reasons. I'm mainly highlighting the two main armies. I think the battles wouldn't have been as engaging with an obvious bad guy, and obvious good guy. Many morals, and life values can be questioned when asked which side is the "good guys". So I think due to the fact that so many poorly done mystery clones are made, that people would rather watch the more simple to do well "good guy vs bad guy" story. I mean JoJo seasons so far have basically been like that, and have been quite successful. |
| Brace yourself. Soon as LotGH 2017 comes out. The anime community is going to become so cancerous you will need to take cover and hide. |
| well Lord of the Rings are my fav movies/books so i guess i like white vs black type stories |
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| Good Vs. Evil in a way, doesn't really happen in life. Even the absolute evil people in history could be proved to be nice with their for example. So sad, but humans tend to be complex creatures. When the line is not clear, it usually to show something in our world which the author moght think should be noticed. I'm sure you can think of example for evil characters which started to be evil as a result of bad behviour towards them, family of classmates or whatever. I think in a way in tries to teach us NOT to do it. But in the end, I do prefer Good Vs. Evil. |
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| Where is OP? Anyway, Good VS Evil type of story is also in your list (Madoka, F/Z, Tokyo Ghoul, ect). There was never really a grey line in the moral conflict of anime and manga. It really just always Good guy VS Bad guy. The difference is only in their motives. Okay, let's see for example. There is a self-righteous rebel/terrorist group fighting against an evil tyrannical corrupt government and/or system. But they fight by doing suicide-bombing, killing innocent people, taking hostages and such. Can you call them "good"? As far as I was enjoying this media. I've never see once, the villain ever doing a "Good Guy"-ish deeds as noble as their motives might be. They can try making the Good Guy acting evil-ish (hurrr.... anti-hero) but never another way around. |
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genesic123 said: Madoka "moral grey"?the plot is a messed up joke.And it's morality is straightforward. You only proved that you only care for shock value and looking cool instead of anything that goes on in the story. The moral grey trope has been done to death and very poorly.Being unsure and and having poor logic is seen as depth to most anime fans nowadays. Well, no need to jump on OP because he doesn't like the same animu than you do, it's not very relevant to the subject. Even if I have to agree that Madoka is a bleh anime and a poor example of grey morality. BTW, it's nothing new. All anime back in the days weren't mindless adventures like Cobra. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
allflying said: I apologize. I was preoccupied.Where is OP? genesic123 said: How is its morality straight forward? Can you demonstrate what makes it so, instead of using very general claims? Calling Madoka purely shock value is a disingenuous argument, though I understand the sentiment if you primarily watch without paying particular attention to certain nuances. Madoka "moral grey"?the plot is a messed up joke.And it's morality is straightforward. You only proved that you only care for shock value and looking cool instead of anything that goes on in the story. The moral grey trope has been done to death and very poorly.Being unsure and and having poor logic is seen as depth to most anime fans nowadays. In addition, why are you suggesting that because I used certain anime as examples, that I enjoy them or think that they are good? Examples are examples for the sake of discussion, not for the sake of demonstrating merit. |
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