The only way to stop extremism is to teach kids Islamic ideals in school, do you agree?

Altairius said:
"Ok, we're learning about Muhammad today. "Kill apostates, adulterers, and at some unspecified point... the Jews".

FahtahSensei said:
Rather have that than a nation of pompous Richard Dawkins self-important nihilists.

Altairius said:
Hitler had a great fondness for Islam.

Self-important nihilism = Spiral, Islam = Anti-Spiral

Altairius said:
I know you do. I'm kinda pro-eugenics (not along racial lines), but the whole genocide thing defeats the 'superiority' idea. If you're superior, take care of your fellow creatures.

TheBrainintheJar said:

Calling something obvious proves nothing.

You said:
History is hardly a black-and-white thing. Rely on one source for it and you get a blurry image.

TheBrainintheJar said:


Here's one for the war crimes

G. Balachandran & Aakriti Sethi (2015) Israel–Gaza Crisis:
Understanding the War Crimes Debate, Strategic Analysis, 39:2, 176-183

I'm afraid I can't give an adequate answer to the good ones and I don't see how others are related, I specialize in world politics, international relations and East Asia, I have limited knowledge about the Middle East, but I'd be interested in learning the answers, it's still in my field

Enjyu said:
As long as people strive for power, control, money, oil, fame and so on, religion will be used as an excuse to start wars. It's just a convenient label to "distinguish" between "us" and 'the bad guys' and to explain the blindfolded majority why A is fighting B for the interests of C and D on the territory of E. In the end of the day it's all politics, manipulation and media speculation for which we pay... Is what I think.

TheBrainintheJar said:

Writing ISIS off as just bunch of psychos who want power doesn't make you enlightened. It makes you look like you want to create cheap villains that should be destroyed.

Religions and cultures differ in their ideas.

Islamic terrorists aren't the guy from SAO. They're not senseless. They have a specific moral system they act upon that happens to be different than ours.

Enjyu said:


Then if you have limited knowledge about the Middle East, don't start accusing us of war crimes so soon, especially if you can't answer these basic questions.

TheBrainintheJar said:


I think I backed all of my claims including the war crimes one. You're asking me specific questions which in the best case I'll have to separately research, you're not being reasonable now. Also limited knowledge does not mean I'm clueless, I think I also proved that. You react like a child honestly, you don't want to accept the fact that I have an opinion in which your country is not an innocent bystander or a victim. Did you read any of the articles? Read them, you just might be able to understand where I'm coming from. No need for aggression, please, let's keep it civilized.

Enjyu said:


I don't see any problem with these questions. They're very simple. If you can't answer them right now then fine. But if you can't tell me what's the purpose of Hamas shooting rockets, how are we even in the position to begin accusing Israel of war crimes?

TheBrainintheJar said:


And what is your ground for insisting Israel is not committing war crimes? I left 2 academic journals, one elaborate analysis on the meaning of war crimes and the crimes committed by both Israel and Palestine, I will also casually drop two articles, one with evidence of Israel's war crimes and one to answer the question why Hamas is shooting. I think it's fairly enough to convey my point, I think it's good enough to convince people. But I would also like to know your grounds, if you are to prove me wrong, give me evidence, I do not close my eyes to truth, nor do I open them only when it's convenient. And answering the question with a question is not an answer, just as saying it's obvious does not prove or explain anything. These questions might indeed be simple, however, I fail to understand how are they related? On the contrary, it starts looking like an attempt to avert attention from the bigger picture to one side of the coin, to put it figuratively.

Does Hamas provoke Israel to attack Gaza?
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/07/hamas-provoke-israel-attack-201471512246535512.html

Evidence of Israeli war crimes in Gaza
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/evidence-israeli-war-crimes-gaza-interactive-15072810-150728133534137.html

TheBrainintheJar said:


War is ugly and it's important how it started. It's silly to blame a powerful entity for exercising its power, because it's possible it had to.

Lap1 said:

Yea so how did it start? Your 'country' isn't even 100 years old nor it is derived from anything in the area~

Pirating_Ninja said:


Just read the article, or rather the title and stopped. Muhammed had "British values"? The fuq? Listen, I will agree that Islam =/= radicalism or w/e, however that doesn't mean that Arabic culture isn't EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE. So no, Muhammed was in no way "similar to the British". Kind of don't even want to see what ass grabs the author pulls in order to try and prove it either. Will make me feel like the idiot for defending Muslims from "All muslims are terrorist" bull shit.

0w0 said:
yeah if they actually teach islam PROPERLY instead of having people get twisted ideas of the religion and turn into extremists.
I know a lot of islam friends who are really nice, goodhearted people and they said their religion says to be non violent and altruistic, kinda like christianity.


Or:

They're people who use religion as an excuse to do what they do.

TheBrainintheJar said:


What gives the Palestinians 'ownership' over it, then?

What gives the Palestinians 'ownership' over it, then?

Lap1 said:


If i look into the history of this area, it pretty much come close to what Europeans did to natives americans, USA with vietnams or like what France tried to do with Algeria.

And from what you can see, none of them won. Even in fiction movies Supremacy ain't winning in the end, maybe some kind of perspicacious casuality's law exception, like the fact you can never eradicate 100% of those bacteria~ /o/


Well it's not impossible, the conquest of america proved it.

So you have two solutions, you wipe them out, or you surrender.

But we all know Israel won't surrender and for palestinians the concept doesn't even exist so in the end you have to eliminate them or somehow managing to kick them out, and you have to do that quickly, because a war of attrition isn't something a country can win.


What you think your ownership is btw?

orario_ said:
The Coran itself says that Christians are stupid and they are just like animals - the holy words from the Coran not from me.

Their prophet also orders them to conquer those that stand against them or those of different relligion.

So teaching kids those things eon't really help.

The point is that many of the muslims are the worst kind of scumbags that exist nowadays. They shiould be all killed like the rabid dogs they are. (I'm talking about extremiss of course)

What's your basis for saying it's so? That the Jews just came killed everyone like the Europeans did to the native americans? What history books have you read?

Lap1 said:


Only wikipedia~

>britain comes, get some territories, give them to zionists, bring mass immigration, get more territories, keep up the work.

You don't bring mass immigration without Preparations, a lot of mutual preparations.

btw i also learn in it that muslmis, jews, christians and else were living quite in peace for centuries in that area before the XXth century.

scruf4ls said:
I think kids should be taught to interpret things for themselves

TheBrainintheJar said:


The territory was the Ottomans' before. The Zionists bought lands legally as far as I know. Yes, Jews immigrated, so what? Are jews not allowed to immigrate?

Why didn't the Palestinians ask for a country then?

Nilin said:
Why are the islamaphobic threads popping up again stop

Enjyu said:
[spoiler/]

War is ugly and it's important how it started. It's silly to blame a powerful entity for exercising its power, because it's possible it had to.

Of course, by this point I have to present some case of my own and I'll start with these Al Jazeera articles. Now, I'm tempted to write it off as biased Islamic extremism but that's just ad hominem.

"By far the most consistent and the most definitive aspect of Palestinian resistance to the occupation and theft of their homeland over the decades has been non-violent civil disobedience" - Wrong. PLO, Hama, Hizballah, and the current terror wave. Palestinian resistance is very, very violent and often targets civilians.

"but in doing what they do, whatever they do, they oppose and defy the armed robbery of their homeland." - Absolutely debatable.

" As part of this resistance, Hamas is integral to the Palestinian national liberation movement, " looks like this:
http://www.newnownext.com/openly-gay-grandson-of-hamas-leader-fears-for-his-life-amidst-imminent-deportation/07/2015/

"What the Israeli propaganda machinery does is to reduce the entirety of Palestine, the rich and diversified tapestry of Palestinian resistance, to Hamas, then demonise Hamas. " - zero evidence of such propaganda.

"The magnificent Israeli benevolence will move into operation and return the stolen Palestine to their rightful owners? Of course not. " - zero evidence or reasoning

", as one young Israeli put it bluntly, Palestinians into the sea."

The Hamas thinks something similar:
"The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim)."

Also, 'women are only mothers' and religious extremism:
"The women in the house and the family of Jihad fighters, whether they are mothers or sisters, carry out the most important duty of caring for the home and raising the children upon the moral concepts and values which derive from Islam; and of educating their sons to observe the religious injunctions in preparation for the duty of Jihad awaiting them"


"Zionism as a murderous machinery of colonial conquest will not stop until the very last inch of Palestine is taken " - Very odd. Why was Sinai and Gaza given away, then? Also, no quotes from The Jewish State which gave birth to Zionism so zero evidence

TheBrainintheJar said:
[spoiler]

By far you're giving your own opinion, which I can argue might be biased as an Israeli citizen, it's not an evidence I can believe. Before I built my opinion it was neural, after reading journals, researches, theses, listening to lectures, talks, seminars and so on I built my own opinion, I shared some of them with you, but you're arguing the opposite, give me something more persuasive, established. I'll give you an example, most of Europe thinks my homeland is corrupted, you've read and heard about it and then suddenly I keep insisting it's not, will you believe me? Won't you think I'm biased, you will unless I provide you with a solid proof.
I also can't agree on the articles being Islamic extremism, one of the authors' background is quite impressive and implying the opposite actually, I also found out he has books translated into Hebrew as well, that says something in itself.
The academic journals' authors are 2 americans and one indian, possibly born in the States, don't see how either of them can be biased.

TheBrainintheJar said:


The territory was the Ottomans' before. The Zionists bought lands legally as far as I know. Yes, Jews immigrated, so what? Are jews not allowed to immigrate?

Why didn't the Palestinians ask for a country then?

Enjyu said:


I presented some holes in one article (Lack of evidence in it, missing the point of Hamas) and I wonder what you think of that.

I do a narrow focus on purpose. It's easier this way. I'd prefer to focus on one article and then move forward.