Vocaloids VS Real-Life Singers

Oct 12, 2015 7:24 AM

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Well, It is not a good idea to compare real human voice with computer software..

HunterGawdess said:
"Vocaloids are so unrealistic"

..of course they are unrealistic, they're not real after all :)
BUT, they all vary significantly by their pronunciation.
Some of them can be indistinguishable from real human,
and some sound really unnatural and robotic.

I personally love them for the qualities which other people hate.
Vocaloid software is a tool and it's nothing without a producer.
How any given voicebank will sound largely depends on the person
who uses it. Most experienced producers can make wonderful stuff.

Oct 12, 2015 7:53 AM

#3

neel_rah

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kuuderu said:
Well, It is not a good idea to compare real human voice with computer software..

HunterGawdess said:
"Vocaloids are so unrealistic"

..of course they are unrealistic, they're not real after all :)
BUT, they all vary significantly by their pronunciation.
Some of them can be indistinguishable from real human,
and some sound really unnatural and robotic.

I personally love them for the qualities which other people hate.
Vocaloid software is a tool and it's nothing without a producer.
How any given voicebank will sound largely depends on the person
who uses it. Most experienced producers can make wonderful stuff.

Thank you for giving your reasons. And I must agree, experienced producers can make gr8 things.

Oct 12, 2015 12:42 PM

#4

DarkStarr96

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Vocaloids sound geniunely terrible.

Where the fuck did Monday go?

Oct 12, 2015 12:45 PM

#5

DreamingBeats

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utate > vocaloid
except for Tell Your World - it feels just right using Miku
and songs like Unfragment

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Oct 12, 2015 12:48 PM

#6

CondemneDio

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Vocaloids sound better than most real singers.
Plus they don't sound terrible live.

Oct 12, 2015 12:58 PM

#7

Hoppy

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I'm confident Yui Ogura can outsing a Vocaloid, the technology isn't quite there yet but it'll come eventually but for now they are a tad inferior to veteran singers.

Oct 12, 2015 1:14 PM

#8

hoopla123

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I prefer Utaite

Oct 12, 2015 2:35 PM

#9

DreamingBeats

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F9 / Kiyono and Kano do a really good job at covering vocaloid songs
ex: the song Kurage, originally for Gumi, cover by F9

the song Hello how are you , originally for Miku, cover by Kano

You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/.
The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish.
Show your support to your favorite artist if you can!
ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name.

For those who want to learn Japanese through anime
Resources for learning the language

Oct 12, 2015 2:39 PM

#10

Mayuka

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Utaite >>>>>>>>>>> Vocaloid

underneath the stars

Oct 12, 2015 2:41 PM

#11

Jerkhov

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Personally I feel vocaloids have a wider range, and can cover much more emotions than humans.

Good example of my favorite one

Oct 12, 2015 3:03 PM

#12

DarkStarr96

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Jerkhov said:
Personally I feel vocaloids have a wider range, and can cover much more emotions than humans.

Good example of my favorite one

This is how bad they all really are.

Technology will never surpass real life singers purely because that's all they sound like, technology, there's no passion no nothing, they just come of as emotional, bland and really bad, I can't find any enjoyment in them.

Where the fuck did Monday go?

Oct 12, 2015 3:41 PM

#13

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DarkStarr96 said:
Technology will never surpass real life singers purely because that's all they sound like, technology, there's no passion no nothing, they just come of as emotional, bland and really bad, I can't find any enjoyment in them.

What an outdated way of thinking.

Oct 12, 2015 3:43 PM

#14

Mayuka

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Jerkhov said:
Personally I feel vocaloids have a wider range, and can cover much more emotions than humans.

Good example of my favorite one

It's not Halloween yet!

Cartox said:

DarkStarr96 said:
Technology will never surpass real life singers purely because that's all they sound like, technology, there's no passion no nothing, they just come of as emotional, bland and really bad, I can't find any enjoyment in them.

What an outdated way of thinking.

He's right tho. Robots cannot express emotions.

underneath the stars

Oct 12, 2015 3:58 PM

#15

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Cartox said:

DarkStarr96 said:
Technology will never surpass real life singers purely because that's all they sound like, technology, there's no passion no nothing, they just come of as emotional, bland and really bad, I can't find any enjoyment in them.

What an outdated way of thinking.

Outdated way of thinking?, hahaha, this is a nice one

Oct 12, 2015 4:03 PM

#16

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blasphemis said:

Cartox said:

What an outdated way of thinking.

Outdated way of thinking?, hahaha, this is a nice one

It is, though.

mayukachan said:

Cartox said:

What an outdated way of thinking.

He's right tho. Robots cannot express emotions.

I think vocaloids are not robots, just software. This is virtual.
With this way of thinking, then all the electronic music scene has no meaning too, and bands like Kraftwerk or Yellow Magic Orchestra would have never seen the light.
These things can express something, it's all about the producer, who is a human being.
I can't imagine this track without the utau, for example, it just feel right with the dreamy but cold atmosphere of it.

Of course, you don't have to agree with me, this is just my opinion.
But I think what a lot of people fail to understand, is that vocaloids are not meant to be against real-life singers. This is not a battle, this is an alternative.
It's all about exploring and seeking new ways to express a feeling.

As Parappa the Rapper would say : "Thanks brother, for lettin me understand that a man must understand to keep his options open".

Oct 12, 2015 4:04 PM

#17

DreamingBeats

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real life singers sound better in the average case, but if an artist is talented and creative enough, they can use the "robotic" sounds to create a song that is very decent.

You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/.
The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish.
Show your support to your favorite artist if you can!
ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name.

For those who want to learn Japanese through anime
Resources for learning the language

Oct 12, 2015 4:27 PM

#18

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Context matters.. Sometimes you can't tell vocaloid from real human,
especially in the songs where singing dynamics are more or less even
and where effects processing is used extensively on vocal parts.

Nothing to argue about, really.. Human cords and digitally controlled
sampled phonemes are not the same thing. Technically, vocaloids can
perform parts alot faster than any human could, also the range is not
a problem here. As for the rest, it's up to listener, what to like or hate..

Oct 12, 2015 4:31 PM

#19

Mayuka

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Cartox said:
With this way of thinking, then all the electronic music scene has no meaning too, and bands like Kraftwerk or Yellow Magic Orchestra would have never seen the light.

I don't feel any emotions towards electronic music unless there is context behind the music. For example, a song played in a sad scene during a movie would render sad feelings in me. I do not feel emotions for the music itself but for the backstory attached to it.

A song with vocals but not sung by real people would never render feelings because of the vocals but because of context, such as lyrics.

underneath the stars

Oct 12, 2015 4:41 PM

#20

Paul

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Vocaloid authenticity has greatly improved compared to when it first came out.

Though I don't really know of anyone other than Mitchie M that tries to make them sound as "human" as possible. But the fact that they can do what they do just goes to show the capability of it.

I don't really care for their songs themselves. I just like what they're trying to do.

Still better than all that nightcore crap though.

Oct 12, 2015 4:57 PM

#21

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Paul said:
Vocaloid authenticity has greatly improved compared to when it first came out.

Very true, the first impression usually remembered the most.

Paul said:
Though I don't really know of anyone other than Mitchie M that tries to make them sound as "human" as possible

Actually there are many nice sounding examples,
it's all about experience, to manipulate the sound.

OT: Also I would like to add that every vocaloid has several
voicebanks (appends) with different emotional character.

This tune is made with Hatsune Miku Dark Append

Oct 12, 2015 4:59 PM

#22

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mayukachan said:
I don't feel any emotions towards electronic music unless there is context behind the music. For example, a song played in a sad scene during a movie would render sad feelings in me. I do not feel emotions for the music itself but for the backstory attached to it.

Yes, alright, but this is you, no ?
I can feel emotions towards music for itself, and I don't think it's a weird thing. The harmony, melody, tone, etc, can touch me, without feeling the need to have a context (it can enhance the emotion, though).

By the way, all new genres of music (such as electronic music) has a context. It didn't randomly pop out, just like that. It's about the rapid technological change after the Second World War.
In short, it's where people started to exploit the technology used for the war to make different things, like creating new instruments and stuff, and as a consequence, new ways to produce music.
Electronic music has a context by nature.

mayukachan said:
A song with vocals but not sung by real people would never render feelings because of the vocals but because of context, such as lyrics.

And with old songs (end 70's-80's) with vocals sung with vocoders ? Often, you can't even understand the lyrics, still, people (me included) like it for the tone of it.
Example :

If you manage to understand the lyrics at the beginning of the song, then you're beyond super special awesome.

Oct 12, 2015 5:13 PM

#23

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kuuderu said:
Well, It is not a good idea to compare real human voice with computer software..

I didn't see this reply. Yeah, pretty much this.
Do you often compare an anime picture with a Renoir's painting in order to determine what is the best ?
Vocaloids and real human voice are two different things, and in my opinion, it's good to have the two, to have the choice.

Oct 12, 2015 6:02 PM

#24

Javera

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Real singers or vocaloids? Doesn't matter to me, I like both. No point in comparing the two since they're both completely different things. Having the choice between both is great to have and allows for more musical creativity.

DarkStarr96 said:
Vocaloids sound geniunely terrible.

yeah, but they sound great when you put enough work into the voice. Some producers can work wonders.

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Oct 12, 2015 7:45 PM

#25

neel_rah

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We all need to understand that vocaloids were genuinely created by humans, so if vocaloids get better, it's because of their creators, who are humans, so yeah...

Oct 12, 2015 8:04 PM

#26

Kaiser-chan

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Vocaloid is overrated. I don't find their song to be that good, their voices are pretty annoying for the most part.

Oct 13, 2015 5:42 AM

#27

DarkStarr96

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DreamingBeats said:
real life singers sound better in the average case, but if an artist is talented and creative enough, they can use the "robotic" sounds to create a song that is very decent.

I agree and I'm a big fan of electronic music but we're not comparing genres here, we're comparing a vocaloid to real life singers, the winner is obvious.

Cartox said:

DarkStarr96 said:
Technology will never surpass real life singers purely because that's all they sound like, technology, there's no passion no nothing, they just come of as emotional, bland and really bad, I can't find any enjoyment in them.

What an outdated way of thinking.

So you think vocaloids surpass humans in terms of singing? If so, that makes me kind of sad.

Where the fuck did Monday go?

Oct 13, 2015 5:44 AM

#28

DarkStarr96

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blasphemis said:

Cartox said:

What an outdated way of thinking.

Outdated way of thinking?, hahaha, this is a nice one

Human singing is so 2014..

Where the fuck did Monday go?

Oct 13, 2015 5:53 AM

#29

CondemneDio

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DarkStarr96 said:

DreamingBeats said:
real life singers sound better in the average case, but if an artist is talented and creative enough, they can use the "robotic" sounds to create a song that is very decent.

I agree and I'm a big fan of electronic music but we're not comparing genres here, we're comparing a vocaloid to real life singers, the winner is obvious.

Cartox said:

What an outdated way of thinking.

So you think vocaloids surpass humans in terms of singing? If so, that makes me kind of sad.

Oct 13, 2015 5:59 AM

#30

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DarkStarr96 said:

DreamingBeats said:
real life singers sound better in the average case, but if an artist is talented and creative enough, they can use the "robotic" sounds to create a song that is very decent.

I agree and I'm a big fan of electronic music but we're not comparing genres here, we're comparing a vocaloid to real life singers, the winner is obvious.

Cartox said:

What an outdated way of thinking.

So you think vocaloids surpass humans in terms of singing? If so, that makes me kind of sad.

That's totally what I'm saying, yup.

In short, what I'm saying is that I think it's silly to try to determine what is the best. These things are two different things, with their own characteristics.
It's like comparing what is the best between an acoustic piano and a Fender Rhodes (a kind of electronic piano). Guess what ? Herbie Hancock and many other great musicians use both.
I think we're lucky to have so many options, and I don't get the need to say "this one is the best !!§§§ It has teh emotion, and the other is garbage !!"

It's like with anything in life : nothing is black or white, it's a matter of nuances.

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Oct 13, 2015 6:02 AM

#31

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They sound more personal to me.

Also depending on the Vocaloid just one has hundreds of songs now compared to some real life singers with like 3 albums of 10 songs. So if you have a favorite you don't have to sit around waiting a year for new material, there's a lot to discover out there.

Oct 13, 2015 6:20 AM

#32

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DarkStarr96 said:

DreamingBeats said:
real life singers sound better in the average case, but if an artist is talented and creative enough, they can use the "robotic" sounds to create a song that is very decent.

I agree and I'm a big fan of electronic music but we're not comparing genres here, we're comparing a vocaloid to real life singers, the winner is obvious.

"The winner" is what you like in a context more.
Aside from this there is bias but that's irrelevant.

Oct 13, 2015 6:28 AM

#33

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kuuderu said:

DarkStarr96 said:

I agree and I'm a big fan of electronic music but we're not comparing genres here, we're comparing a vocaloid to real life singers, the winner is obvious.

"The winner" is what you like in a context more.
Aside from this there is bias but that's irrelevant.

^^^

DarkStarr96 said:

blasphemis said:

Outdated way of thinking?, hahaha, this is a nice one

Human singing is so 2014..

Yeah, whatever.
Maybe you should try to understand what I'm saying before making (false) assumptions.

"[...]technology, there's no passion no nothing, they just come of as emotional, bland and really bad, I can't find any enjoyment in them"

You can't find any enjoyment in them, fine.
But thinking there is "no passion, no nothing" in technology (or anything else you don't like or don't understand) is an outdated way of thinking.

This is exactly what some people were saying at the beginning of electronic music.
This is exactly what some people thought at the beginning of the synthesizer sound.
This is exactly what some people thought at the beginning of modern classical music of the last century (Debussy, Stravinsky, Bartok, Schoenberg, ...).
This is exactly what some people thought at the beginning of Impressionist painting.
Etc.

This is what it is : an outdated way of thinking.

Oct 13, 2015 6:43 AM

#34

DarkStarr96

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Cartox said:

DarkStarr96 said:

I agree and I'm a big fan of electronic music but we're not comparing genres here, we're comparing a vocaloid to real life singers, the winner is obvious.

So you think vocaloids surpass humans in terms of singing? If so, that makes me kind of sad.

That's totally what I'm saying, yup.

In short, what I'm saying is that I think it's silly to try to determine what is the best. These things are two different things, with their own characteristics.
It's like comparing what is the best between an acoustic piano and a Fender Rhodes (a kind of electronic piano). Guess what ? Herbie Hancock and many other great musicians use both.
I think we're lucky to have so many options, and I don't get the need to say "this one is the best !!§§§ It has teh emotion, and the other is garbage !!"

It's like with anything in life : nothing is black or white, it's a matter of nuances.

Vocaloids just don't sound great pal, they can sound good in context (electronic music) but even then, human vocals are much better.

But obviously that's just my opinion, I do find it mind boggling people would prefer vocaloids to real singers (for many many reasons) but each to their own I guess.

Also congratulations for taking what I said completely out of context. I was referring to vocaloids specifically (see thread title for details) I love electronic music but vocaloids do sound bland & emotionless, in the context of music they can sound fitting to the music itself, but the vocals specifically still sound bland & emotionless and please don't bring the "you just don't understand it!" Into the equation because there really isn't much to "get" here.

Outdated way of thinking? for disliking the sound that a vocaloids makes? Lmao.

Where the fuck did Monday go?

Oct 13, 2015 7:21 AM

#35

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DarkStarr96 said:
Vocaloids just don't sound great pal, they can sound good in context (electronic music) but even then, human vocals are much better.

Well, if you want. But then, what I woud like to know is : who are you for stating what is "much better" and what doesn't sound good ?

DarkStarr96 said:
But obviously that's just my opinion, I do find it mind boggling people would prefer vocaloids to real singers (for many many reasons) but each to their own I guess.

Yeah, but it's the same thing over and over again.
A lot of people (me included) don't try to determine what is the best. We can like both, you know. We can prefer a real singer in a particular context, and prefer a vocaloid in an other one. This is also just my opinion, and I don't see a problem if someone else don't like vocaloid at all.

DarkStarr96 said:
Also congratulations for taking what I said completely out of context. I was referring to vocaloids specifically (see thread title for details) I love electronic music but vocaloids do sound bland & emotionless, in the context of music they can sound fitting to the music itself, but the vocals specifically still sound bland & emotionless and please don't bring the "you just don't understand it!" Into the equation because there really isn't much to "get" here.

I don't think this is completely out of context, though.
Vocaloid is strongly linked to electronic music, it's a virtual voice, as much as some typical synthesizers sound (mainly used in electronic music) are virtual sounds based on real instruments.
And I repeat myself, but I don't feel the need to compare a real life singers and a vocaloid alone, without any (what you call) "context". For me, it's all about how, where, and when we used them.

I never said you didn't understand it, what I said was just mere assumptions based on what you said.
What I tried to say was more like "it's not because you don't like OR don't understand it (and I could add OR finding them meaningless), that it means there is no passion". Sorry if it wasn't clear enough.

You think there is no passion in these stuff, fine, but that's your opinion. Obviously, a lot of vocaloid users think otherwise.

DarkStarr96 said:

Outdated way of thinking? for disliking the sound that a vocaloids makes? Lmao.

That's totally what I'm saying, yup. /sarcasm

I think that's an outdated way of thinking because stating "technology will never surpass [insert what you want here : real life singer, real instruments, real blabla]" is silly.
Surpassing real life singers or anything else is not their purpose.
Those things are here to bring alternatives, no more no less.

Oct 13, 2015 9:53 AM

#36

Nashetania

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DarkStarr96 said:
Vocaloids sound geniunely terrible.

Oct 13, 2015 11:05 PM

#37

bombslayer

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I prefer utaites. Most vocaloid songs sound too robotic and raunchy to me. This was an exception though

Oct 14, 2015 6:14 PM

#38

SolidPayne

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Vocaloids are for weaboos, people only listening to their crap cause they star anime characters. I've heard their music, it's some of the most forgetable generic j pop I've ever heard. If I want an animated band, I'll listen to The Gorillaz. As for comparing these guys to live action singers, I'm assuming you're talking specifically about pop singers these days or something because if you compare vocaloids to someone like Billie Holiday for example you're out of your fucking mind if they're even on the same level as someone like Holiday

Oct 14, 2015 7:40 PM

#39

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CowboySam said:
Vocaloids are for weaboos, people only listening to their crap cause they star anime characters.

Lol

Utaites are a lot more preferred

Oct 15, 2015 12:11 AM

#40

Mxs_

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RainHeaven said:

Lol

Utaites are a lot more preferred

How do you know this? where is the proof homie because I have honestly only just now heard about these utaties.

CowboySam said:
If I want an animated band, I'll listen to The Gorillaz.

Those aren't computers tho real people voices. Do agree with you though vocaloids aren't in the same league.

you sound poor

Oct 15, 2015 4:48 AM

#41

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CowboySam said:
Vocaloids are for weaboos, people only listening to their crap cause they star anime characters. I've heard their music, it's some of the most forgetable generic j pop I've ever heard.

They're not an anime characters, they just look alike and that's all.
Also when the pop music is THE dominant genre in music in general,
no wonder it's the case with vocaloids too and by far not every release
has a lot of "originality". You probably just heard the most popular
songs and judge by them, so you seem to be clueless on topic sir..

Oct 15, 2015 5:06 AM

#42

neel_rah

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kuuderu said:

CowboySam said:
Vocaloids are for weaboos, people only listening to their crap cause they star anime characters. I've heard their music, it's some of the most forgetable generic j pop I've ever heard.

They're not an anime characters, they just look alike and that's all.
Also when the pop music is THE dominant genre in music in general,
no wonder it's the case with vocaloids too and by far not every release
has a lot of "originality". You probably just heard the most popular
songs and judge by them, so you seem to be clueless on topic sir..

Thank you, you're right. Whoever thinks vocaloids are for weaboos!! CowboySam just hates vocaloids, I think.

Oct 15, 2015 6:51 AM

#43

FahtahSensei

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When I look at the top 40...I can't tell the difference. Vocaloids seem less obnoxious and more human if anything.

Person who said utaite +1 for you.

Oct 15, 2015 6:54 AM

#44

Fintan

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Vocaloids are kind of a fun gimmick, but real singers are a lot better. As everyone's said, they can't express emotion/humanity like an actual human can.

Oct 15, 2015 1:34 PM

#45

DarkStarr96

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Fintan said:
Vocaloids are kind of a fun gimmick, but real singers are a lot better. As everyone's said, they can't express emotion/humanity like an actual human can.

On point.

Where the fuck did Monday go?

Oct 15, 2015 1:38 PM

#46

Marcellus-

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Arguing over music tastes lol sounds like a good time..

Vocaloids are better

Oct 15, 2015 1:38 PM

#47

FeebleEggs

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I like real life singers more.

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Vocaloids VS Real-Life Singers

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