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Mar 12, 2015 1:00 PM
#201
Fullmetal89 said: In the sense that Ging lectured him not to be so hard on himself, that Kite wasn't his fault etc. Gon basically said a similar thing to Kurapika about not living for vengeance or hating himself. I'll assume you read the Kurapika special arc. The phantom troupe came after Kurapika's village partly because he disobeyed the elders. Ah that, hmmm yeah the mention of Talk no Jutsu by Setsuko threw me a bit off since I thought he meant something along the lines of Gon being a villain which was restored to the right path or something . Except it's not the same thing though, Gon was depressed because he is partly responsible for Kite's death.They distracted him causing him to loose his hand. Je also decided to fight Pitou head-on mainly because he wanted to buiy them some time to run awy otherwie he would have probably fled (and with his two arms his might have had a chance of escaping Pitou). As you could see during the fight with Pitou, he was about as luch angry against Pitou as against himself. The parental recomfort was needed. Kurapika's case is not the same since his hatred is entirely channeled towards the troupe which is what he devotes his whole life to which is what Gon was telling him about. Did Gon ever actually tell him that it's not his fault or something like that(which is what Ging did)? |
Mar 12, 2015 1:09 PM
#202
RedRoseFring said: Agafin said: SetsukoHara said: - What he said to Nobunaga. How can he threaten to kill Komugi after that? Oooh, I never saw this. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) If you ever have the time to read all of it, then here's some wall of text for you. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1207197&show=500#msg37063789 I will particularly like to get your answers for questions 2 a,b,c and d. Interesting. What do you think then was Gon's initial plan? Without Komugi, everything kind of falls apart. I have the impression that Gon was underestimating Pitou. He probably wanted to use Killua's lightning to paralyse her or while he weakens her with his RPS (kinda like against Rammot but a much more stronger version of that combo since they trained for one month). Although he probably had the idea of the vow since some time (there was even a slight foreshadow just before the invasion that he had some dark plan), I don't think it's something that he could just spam on the instant without some trigger (like confirmation of Kite's death) so a prior plan like what I mentioned was needed. Still, Pitou is strong, doubt it would have worked. |
Mar 12, 2015 1:11 PM
#203
Fullmetal89 said: Not really, Netero did more than her.Komugi did more for the human race in that arc than the entire Hunter association combined. . |
Mar 12, 2015 1:17 PM
#204
I am watching one piece, jokes always seem to be on male members. Does nami ever gets joked about, or gets her mouth shut by someone? She regularly insults the guys for comedy effect. Are there any jokes on robin, or does she stay 'cool' all the time? |
Mar 12, 2015 1:27 PM
#205
cenkiss said: I am watching one piece, jokes always seem to be on male members. Does nami ever gets joked about, or gets her mouth shut by someone? She regularly insults the guys for comedy effect. Are there any jokes on robin,or does she stay 'cool' all the time? |
Mar 12, 2015 1:28 PM
#206
Agafin said: It's as bad as any of the "big 3".Poor AoT can't be discussed in this thread since the whole show and any potential discussion about it is just one big spoiler. 2016 come faster :( |
Mar 12, 2015 1:28 PM
#207
cenkiss said: Does nami ever gets joked about, or gets her mouth shut by someone? No. Are there any jokes on robin, or does she stay 'cool' all the time? She stays cool all the time, AFAIK. |
wildhoodMar 12, 2015 1:33 PM
Mar 12, 2015 1:32 PM
#208
Agafin said: RedRoseFring said: Agafin said: SetsukoHara said: - What he said to Nobunaga. How can he threaten to kill Komugi after that? Oooh, I never saw this. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) If you ever have the time to read all of it, then here's some wall of text for you. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1207197&show=500#msg37063789 I will particularly like to get your answers for questions 2 a,b,c and d. Interesting. What do you think then was Gon's initial plan? Without Komugi, everything kind of falls apart. I have the impression that Gon was underestimating Pitou. He probably wanted to use Killua's lightning to paralyse her or while he weakens her with his RPS (kinda like against Rammot but a much more stronger version of that combo since they trained for one month). Although he probably had the idea of the vow since some time (there was even a slight foreshadow just before the invasion that he had some dark plan), I don't think it's something that he could just spam on the instant without some trigger (like confirmation of Kite's death) so a prior plan like what I mentioned was needed. Still, Pitou is strong, doubt it would have worked. What? It was like hinted many times Gon wanted to fight Pitou alone, there was no Killua or anyone helping. That's why the idea that he planned to sacrifice everything to get power is such a plausible and the most likely conclusion. He would probably try to fight with all he got and when realized he can't do shit he would transform. Or maybe he would do it right away. |
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mar 12, 2015 1:36 PM
#209
soundscape said: What? It was like hinted many times Gon wanted to fight Pitou alone, there was no Killua or anyone helping. That's why the idea that he planned to sacrifice everything to get power is such a plausible and the most likely conclusion. He would probably try to fight with all he got and when realized he can't do shit he would transform. Or maybe he would do it right away. Killua just overdramatised the whole Gon wanting to take her alone. Sure, Gon took it very personal and somehow selfishly but he could still accept Killua's help as evidenced by the fact that he did call him when he went towards Pitou's room. I'm just speculating though. Between, which one of the Gon/Pitou or Meruem/Komugi subplots did you enjoy more in the arc? Just curious. |
Mar 12, 2015 1:36 PM
#210
JumpinJC said: cenkiss said: Does nami ever gets joked about, or gets her mouth shut by someone? No. Are there any jokes on robin, or does she stay 'cool' all the time? She stays cool all the time, AFAIK. Not even once? She is always a smartass? Not even by a villain? |
Mar 12, 2015 1:38 PM
#211
cenkiss said: Not even once? She is always a smartass? Not even by a villain? She got out-witted by Eneru, and then had a facefault in the picture I linked earlier |
Mar 12, 2015 1:44 PM
#212
cenkiss said: Are there any jokes on robin, or does she stay 'cool' all the time? in Robin's case, the hilarity mostly comes fro the fact that she acts "cool" and just how seriously she takes everythinin her not-so-serious surroundings |
Mar 12, 2015 2:12 PM
#213
Agafin said: soundscape said: What? It was like hinted many times Gon wanted to fight Pitou alone, there was no Killua or anyone helping. That's why the idea that he planned to sacrifice everything to get power is such a plausible and the most likely conclusion. He would probably try to fight with all he got and when realized he can't do shit he would transform. Or maybe he would do it right away. Killua just overdramatised the whole Gon wanting to take her alone. Sure, Gon took it very personal and somehow selfishly but he could still accept Killua's help as evidenced by the fact that he did call him when he went towards Pitou's room. I'm just speculating though. Between, which one of the Gon/Pitou or Meruem/Komugi subplots did you enjoy more in the arc? Just curious. In ep 95 Gon clearly states that he wants "that one"(Pitou) for himself. Also while they jumped from one building to another ep115 I think Killua thinks to himself and we can deduce that Gon was going to fight alone, even if Killua was there or not. He probably wanted Killua to keep others away or sth... Well I loved Meruem and his development a lot and the themes that go along with his development just intellectually satisfy me, he is my favorite villain along with Griffith, Pitou/Hisoka and Johan Liebert. But Gon/Pitou subplot offered me more jaw dropping moments to the point where I was mindblown. I can still rewatch ep 116 for the 11th time and feel goosebumps and incredible tension. Powerful stuff. I just can't easily chose one or the other, both offered me incredible mindblowing stuff but in different areas. Gon/Pitou was more mindblowing and jawdropping while Meruem/komugi was more beautiful, emotional and intellectually/morally satisfying and thought provoking. I guess I'll choose Gon/Pitou also because I liked Pitou a lot. |
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mar 12, 2015 2:17 PM
#214
Luffy really needs to put Nami in line, sometimes she acts like a total bitch and doesn't even respect him as captain. |
Mar 12, 2015 2:30 PM
#215
Borgov said: doesn't even respect him as captain. Does Anyone?? |
Mar 12, 2015 2:52 PM
#216
Agafin said: @Setsuko @Fullmetal You do know that hipocrisy is a character trait right? How can he be acting out of characters when he exhibits something that has been established as an integral part of his characterization? He's even been called out for that before: http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v10/c093/14.html So the stuff with Kurapika is just his hipocrisy as well as the fact that he was quite ignorant of what actually losing someone like that was. Everything is a character trait, yet, people complain when a character doesn't act in a coherent way but frankly in everyday life, who always act in a coherent way? Being hypocrite is OK, but it's just not a character trait that I like in someone that seem to hate it more when people are hypocritical that when they're actually bad guys. Everything he said to Nobunaga which was a really powerful scene seem totally petty after what he's done in CA. I only forgive that scene you showed in spoiler because it's mostly comedic, and not that important in the great scheme of things. gedata said: It had a lot to do with the unfairness of the situation he was presented when he finally found the object of his revenge. Gon is angry because Pitou has the audacity to expect him to show mercy to the ones she cares about when she played with Kite like a ball of yarn. That she can't make the emotional connection that Gon - and most humans - feel the exact same way when she nonchalantly murders so many. And the idea of standing back and letting Pitou get what she wants while he's lost the closest thing he's had to a father figure (or perhaps rather lost the chance to develop such a bond) mortally wounds him. He had every right to be angry. In fact I'd probably say that it was the most humanizing moment for him until then. His emotions have always been some what subdued and nonchalant compared to everyone else. As for him acting out of character, what events prior to this made you think he would act any different in this type of situation? The events prior to this that made me think he would act differently was the Genthru situation. Gon had every reasons to despise this guy but didn't do anything to him because that would make him feel like a hypocrite after he became friends with Killua. Most of his defining and shining moments have been him going against some form of hypocrisy, so I really didn't expect him to say "FUCK" to everything he's stand for so far. And I didn't expect that because he was confronted with someone he thought was a hypocrite he would also react as a hypocrite in reaction. Agafin said: SetsukoHara said: - What he said to Nobunaga. How can he threaten to kill Komugi after that? Oooh, I never saw this. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) If you ever have the time to read all of it, then here's some wall of text for you. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1207197&show=500#msg37063789 I will particularly like to get your answers for questions 2 a,b,c and d. I'm too old for an endless debate, I'm mostly here to present you my view. So, I'll answer your point very briefly. Plus it's not exactly the same argument, I'm not saying that Gon did anything wrong, I'm just saying I think Gon is mostly a good guy, it's just that he doesn't judge people based on their morality, but mostly on feelings, but he will never do a bad action like killing someone unless he thought that person deserve it. I don't think any of it was a strategy, look at Gon's face when he threatened Komugi. http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQk5_rt0JUlohqeCPdwkEGt529rzrmKrA-GN1EJu8tyVG7PsY_OTVr4vfQ8 Togashi made it really clear to make us, the reader, think that Gon was serious with the way he portrayed it, and the lack of clear counter indication from the narrator or another character really make me believe he wasn't ready to do it. |
Mar 12, 2015 3:04 PM
#217
cenkiss said: Does nami ever gets joked about, or gets her mouth shut by someone? She regularly insults the guys for comedy effect. She never gets beaten like the boys do, but her greediness is often a source of joke. Borgov said: Luffy really needs to put Nami in line, sometimes she acts like a total bitch and doesn't even respect him as captain. She already got shushed! http://www.mangareader.net/103-2387-17/one-piece/chapter-280.html |
Mar 12, 2015 3:27 PM
#218
SetsukoHara said: ....... The only difference is that most characters usually adults have a developed personality (they have lived through things in life), Gon is a child and hasn't developed yet. So his hypocricy can't be out of character when he hasn't lived through a situation he knows nothing about emotionally. Genthuru did nothing bad to someone Gon cared deeply about. His morals and views are childish and naive because he is a kid, his actions make perfect sense. CA arc was set partially for the reason of his development. |
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mar 12, 2015 4:04 PM
#219
Agafin said: I have the impression that Gon was underestimating Pitou. He probably wanted to use Killua's lightning to paralyse her or while he weakens her with his RPS (kinda like against Rammot but a much more stronger version of that combo since they trained for one month). Although he probably had the idea of the vow since some time (there was even a slight foreshadow just before the invasion that he had some dark plan), I don't think it's something that he could just spam on the instant without some trigger (like confirmation of Kite's death) so a prior plan like what I mentioned was needed. Still, Pitou is strong, doubt it would have worked. I doubt he'd underestimate her that badly since he didn't do that with anyone else. Her dealing with Kite should have been more than enough indication. The boys were way too smart to go into a fight holding back against her. I'm starting to find it problematic that no reasonable plan could have been enforced without the presence of Komugi. Sacrificing his nen would not have lasted long enough for her to return Kite, nor allow him to subdue her. They were also entering under the assumption that she and the other guards would do anything to protect the King. It makes the entire situation more questionable when it seems the set up was tailor made only to make the following sequence of events possible. |
RedRoseFringMar 12, 2015 4:11 PM
"Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Mar 12, 2015 6:17 PM
#220
Agafin said: I was actually comparing my experience when I watch both series, I was hooked on HxH 1999 but I wasn't feeling the CA arc in 2011 at all. What I was comparing was not scene to scene, but how well in my opinion the bloodier (darker) part of the story was animated, even though they're different cases. The story was alright, but it is often the pacing, directing, etc that just wasn't up to snuff. It's why I never compare them arc by arc like other people.Wait, you haven't even watched anything Pre CA (from HxH 2011) and yet you always try to compare both versions and wonder why some like one over the other? How baseless could this be if you didn't even watch anything of what they both share? Seems a bit hypocritical to me. soundscape said: Never felt cheap to me, because even in real life the most difficult thing to do before achieving anything is decision. Also it took meditation(which is essential for conjurers, in a sense he did train) and incredible focus for Kurapika to attain that power along with strong emotion/motivation/decision, and he sacrifices his life if he uses the power on anyone that isn't PT, thus gaining "indestructible" chains against them, like focusing all your being in a single thing makes you more powerful. Not to mention it is a power system in a battle shounen, so comparatively to others it is far from cheap in my book. It ain't cheap when you pay with your "life". Not everyone can achieve what Gon did. It can only be used once and against one opponent. It is established in the system of Nen and makes sense. And it is quite plausible he thought about doing it and actually planned it as something of a last resort. What would be cheap if there would be no consequences and if Gon did it just like seconds after learning Nen. What is cheap is Natsu always winning by a power up when he shouldn't like ever. I did specify that it's cheap in term of power standing. In context, it was emotional, because the characters had to sacrifice something in order to gain massive power, but out of context, it felt like a cheap way to power up, it is with a sacrifice but like I said again, in term of power standing, one who was fodderized before is fodderizing now after the power up. Speaking of no consequences, you probably would've guessed that I'd be talking about Alluka, everyone was talking about him. I know Gon suffered terribly after his transformation, but Alluka's power is another example for why I think Nen's way too random, while you need to pay something to use the power, apparently Killua gets a pass, because.. otoutou loves his oniichan. Then, well, Gon gets resurrected anyway. Again, in context it may seems emotional, but out of context it's a bit.. eh.. |
Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
Mar 12, 2015 9:04 PM
#221
One Piece volume 77 cover revealed I think this is the first volume since 42 with no Luffy on the cover |
Mar 12, 2015 10:24 PM
#222
^ senor pink should be the one in that chair, smh :( "Naruto" Manga Author Receives the New Face Award of Minister of Education Award for Fine Arts http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2015/03/12-1/naruto-manga-author-receives-the-new-face-award-of-minister-of-education-award-for-fine-arts |
Mar 12, 2015 11:47 PM
#224
ichii_1 said: "Naruto" Manga Author Receives the New Face Award of Minister of Education Award for Fine Arts http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2015/03/12-1/naruto-manga-author-receives-the-new-face-award-of-minister-of-education-award-for-fine-arts Congratz to Kishimoto! |
"Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Mar 12, 2015 11:50 PM
#225
congrats of v3 guys Kaimon said: One Piece volume 77 cover revealed I think this is the first volume since 42 with no Luffy on the cover Thats pretty horrible quality |
Mar 13, 2015 12:48 AM
#226
JOAOAA said: Thats pretty horrible quality Yeah it usually takes a few days or more for the hi-res versions to come out |
Mar 13, 2015 3:27 AM
#227
ToG25thBaam said: Agafin said: I was actually comparing my experience when I watch both series, I was hooked on HxH 1999 but I wasn't feeling the CA arc in 2011 at all. What I was comparing was not scene to scene, but how well in my opinion the bloodier (darker) part of the story was animated, even though they're different cases. The story was alright, but it is often the pacing, directing, etc that just wasn't up to snuff. It's why I never compare them arc by arc like other people.Wait, you haven't even watched anything Pre CA (from HxH 2011) and yet you always try to compare both versions and wonder why some like one over the other? How baseless could this be if you didn't even watch anything of what they both share? Seems a bit hypocritical to me. soundscape said: Never felt cheap to me, because even in real life the most difficult thing to do before achieving anything is decision. Also it took meditation(which is essential for conjurers, in a sense he did train) and incredible focus for Kurapika to attain that power along with strong emotion/motivation/decision, and he sacrifices his life if he uses the power on anyone that isn't PT, thus gaining "indestructible" chains against them, like focusing all your being in a single thing makes you more powerful. Not to mention it is a power system in a battle shounen, so comparatively to others it is far from cheap in my book. It ain't cheap when you pay with your "life". Not everyone can achieve what Gon did. It can only be used once and against one opponent. It is established in the system of Nen and makes sense. And it is quite plausible he thought about doing it and actually planned it as something of a last resort. What would be cheap if there would be no consequences and if Gon did it just like seconds after learning Nen. What is cheap is Natsu always winning by a power up when he shouldn't like ever. I did specify that it's cheap in term of power standing. In context, it was emotional, because the characters had to sacrifice something in order to gain massive power, but out of context, it felt like a cheap way to power up, it is with a sacrifice but like I said again, in term of power standing, one who was fodderized before is fodderizing now after the power up. Speaking of no consequences, you probably would've guessed that I'd be talking about Alluka, everyone was talking about him. I know Gon suffered terribly after his transformation, but Alluka's power is another example for why I think Nen's way too random, while you need to pay something to use the power, apparently Killua gets a pass, because.. otoutou loves his oniichan. Then, well, Gon gets resurrected anyway. Again, in context it may seems emotional, but out of context it's a bit.. eh.. So have you watched HxH2011 or not and how much of it? I am confused. Again power standing or anywhere else it isn't cheap because of reason I already stated. The nakama power up out of nowhere is what is cheap. It is cheap when it isn't logically explainable,doesn't fit the power system and is an asspull. Not when it was well thought out and in line with the power system,you may not like it but that's a different thing. I am not gonna lie and say that I liked that Aluka's power was with no consequences when Killua is using it(although symbolically it makes sense, you do something for people you love without asking anything in return), but yea I am not a fan of this moment . But as with everything else Togashi has explained in great detail how something works and it always made sense, but the anime ended and there wasn't any explanation yet. Not to mention that Alluka's power might not even be Nen as I heard... Emotional or not is irrelevant in this discussion, also how can you talk about anything out of context?.Gon doesn't get ressurected. He reverts him to his previous body state,that's all. And Gon does pay for his recklesness even after he is "healed" Manga spoiller he doesn't get his Nen back, and who knows what else he might have lost(like life span) |
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mar 13, 2015 3:32 AM
#228
RedRoseFring said: Agafin said: I have the impression that Gon was underestimating Pitou. He probably wanted to use Killua's lightning to paralyse her or while he weakens her with his RPS (kinda like against Rammot but a much more stronger version of that combo since they trained for one month). Although he probably had the idea of the vow since some time (there was even a slight foreshadow just before the invasion that he had some dark plan), I don't think it's something that he could just spam on the instant without some trigger (like confirmation of Kite's death) so a prior plan like what I mentioned was needed. Still, Pitou is strong, doubt it would have worked. I doubt he'd underestimate her that badly since he didn't do that with anyone else. Her dealing with Kite should have been more than enough indication. The boys were way too smart to go into a fight holding back against her. I'm starting to find it problematic that no reasonable plan could have been enforced without the presence of Komugi. Sacrificing his nen would not have lasted long enough for her to return Kite, nor allow him to subdue her. They were also entering under the assumption that she and the other guards would do anything to protect the King. It makes the entire situation more questionable when it seems the set up was tailor made only to make the following sequence of events possible. You are making wild assumptions here for how long his transformation would have lasted and that he couldn't subdue her. I disagree. |
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mar 13, 2015 4:33 AM
#229
soundscape said: So have you watched HxH2011 or not and how much of it? I am confused. Again power standing or anywhere else it isn't cheap because of reason I already stated. The nakama power up out of nowhere is what is cheap. It is cheap when it isn't logically explainable,doesn't fit the power system and is an asspull. Not when it was well thought out and in line with the power system,you may not like it but that's a different thing. I am not gonna lie and say that I liked that Aluka's power was with no consequences when Killua is using it(although symbolically it makes sense, you do something for people you love without asking anything in return), but yea I am not a fan of this moment . But as with everything else Togashi has explained in great detail how something works and it always made sense, but the anime ended and there wasn't any explanation yet. Not to mention that Alluka's power might not even be Nen as I heard... Emotional or not is irrelevant in this discussion, also how can you talk about anything out of context?.Gon doesn't get ressurected. He reverts him to his previous body state,that's all. And Gon does pay for his recklesness even after he is "healed" Manga spoiller he doesn't get his Nen back, and who knows what else he might have lost(like life span) Started where after Gon and Killua got transported to "Ging", that's the beginning of CA, up until where Meruem started to feel something for Komugi, while Gon and co. were fighting fodder ants. I wasn't pointing out the flaw of the system, it's legit, all I did said was that I didn't like it, just because it's in-line with the power system doesn't make it better, at least for me. We may have different standard and view for what is cheap or not. It just seems easy to power up. By the way, can the vows & limitations thing be done more than once? although symbolically it makes sense, you do something for people you love without asking anything in return I don't think symbolic is the right word for it.What I meant by out of context is to exclude the emotions behind every sacrifices made. It became, Gon chose to go down the path of doom himself -> Nen's rule: You sacrifice something to gain something -> Killua wants to heal him -> Ask Alluka for help -> Alluka grants Killua his wish without tax -> Gon's healed, making the said sacrifice somewhat void. Doesn't mean that he didn't suffer, but he's supposed to be done in. (note: I do not want Gon dead, just in case you think I just want to see some blood) Manga spoiler: I didn't know about his broken ki-centre opps Nen, now I am interested in where Togashi is going with him power wise. Gon wouldn't sit still being powerless, but without Nen he can't be strong. inb4 tech |
ToG25thBaamMar 13, 2015 9:05 AM
Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
Mar 13, 2015 5:24 AM
#230
soundscape said: RedRoseFring said: Agafin said: I have the impression that Gon was underestimating Pitou. He probably wanted to use Killua's lightning to paralyse her or while he weakens her with his RPS (kinda like against Rammot but a much more stronger version of that combo since they trained for one month). Although he probably had the idea of the vow since some time (there was even a slight foreshadow just before the invasion that he had some dark plan), I don't think it's something that he could just spam on the instant without some trigger (like confirmation of Kite's death) so a prior plan like what I mentioned was needed. Still, Pitou is strong, doubt it would have worked. I doubt he'd underestimate her that badly since he didn't do that with anyone else. Her dealing with Kite should have been more than enough indication. The boys were way too smart to go into a fight holding back against her. I'm starting to find it problematic that no reasonable plan could have been enforced without the presence of Komugi. Sacrificing his nen would not have lasted long enough for her to return Kite, nor allow him to subdue her. They were also entering under the assumption that she and the other guards would do anything to protect the King. It makes the entire situation more questionable when it seems the set up was tailor made only to make the following sequence of events possible. You are making wild assumptions here for how long his transformation would have lasted and that he couldn't subdue her. I disagree. Gon would definitely not have thought that the transformation would last forever, so I don't even need to use the short time it did last for that. He could definitely have beaten her in Gon-san mode since he so greatly outpowered her, but he had no means to make her submissive to restore Kite. The whole thing only makes sense if he was planning to straight out kill her, not force her to somehow restore Kite. |
"Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Mar 13, 2015 5:29 AM
#231
SetsukoHara said: Everything is a character trait, yet, people complain when a character doesn't act in a coherent way but frankly in everyday life, who always act in a coherent way? Being hypocrite is OK, but it's just not a character trait that I like in someone that seem to hate it more when people are hypocritical that when they're actually bad guys. Everything he said to Nobunaga which was a really powerful scene seem totally petty after what he's done in CA. I only forgive that scene you showed in spoiler because it's mostly comedic, and not that important in the great scheme of things. No, in real life people do have acoherent way of acting especially when they are adults. Of course if we talk about simple everyday stuff then they will definitely have random ways of acting but when it comes to more serious, then it's not true anymore. I mean, would it make sense for a normal individual who was always very gentle and caring to just kill a random bystander on the way for nothing at all? Of course no. hat's why during investigations they always try to find the motives of crimes, was it jealousy? was the person secretly a psycho? etc. The same is true with fiction. If a character does something out of character then a legit reason must be provided for that. I don't even understand how he contradicted what he said to Nobunaga, care to explain? The hypocrisy I mentioned was relative to what he told Kurapika not Nobunaga. Wasn't he angry at Nobu because he cried for the loss of a friend despite all the innocent lives he took? Isn't that the same reaction he had with Pitou albeit more amplified?(being angry that she cares for Komugi despite what she did to Kite and all). Seems like a misunderstanding here so I'll wait for your clarification. As for the rest of your post, well you said it yourself, there's no need for endless debates so I'll leave it at that but I've definitely understood your stance there at least. |
Mar 13, 2015 6:08 AM
#232
Why is everyone using spoiler tags? O.o RedRoseFring said: I doubt he'd underestimate her that badly since he didn't do that with anyone else. Her dealing with Kite should have been more than enough indication. The boys were way too smart to go into a fight holding back against her. I'm starting to find it problematic that no reasonable plan could have been enforced without the presence of Komugi. Sacrificing his nen would not have lasted long enough for her to return Kite, nor allow him to subdue her. They were also entering under the assumption that she and the other guards would do anything to protect the King. It makes the entire situation more questionable when it seems the set up was tailor made only to make the following sequence of events possible. You are making several assumptions here. First, just like I said, they were far stronger than they previously was thanks to their training so the underestimation wasn't that bad. I'd argue that each of them weren't that far from Kite in terms of actual strength but only experience. Second, the combination of Gon and Killua's hatsus isn't really additive but more like multiplicative. I mean, if each of them went seperately then they would've been fodderized but together their techniques complement each other. Killua's lightnung has been shown to be capable of paralysing Youpi so he could do the same with Pitou, the problem here would be her speed, but he does have Godspeed which might be faster than her, during that time Gon can prepare his Rock which is far stronger than any normal ko should be thanks to the huge limitations and risks it have(the slow charaging time) but fortunately Killua's paralysis exactly counters that weakness. Rinse and repeat and they might have had a chance of at least weakening her considerably. Third, you don't know how long Gon's vow would have lasted but that is irrevelant since no matter how short it was, thanks to the severity of the vow, he needs very little time to incapacitate her and subsequently try to force her to heal Kite as shown by their confrontation where it took him less than 5 minutes to obliterate her. Fourth, Gon, Killua and co already knew that there was something weird happening in the palace since Pitou stopped using her En at one moment for nearly three hours. According to them, she would never do something like that since it endangers the king and they concluded that the king might have hurt himself for some reason or that there was a third party. This is to tell you that nothing was certain in the mission as you make it seem, the moment Palm failed her mission things go sour at any moment so I don't see what makes you think that they Gon neede a 100% efficiency plan. Finally Gon being far stronger than her in san mode definitely means that he had the power to at least try to subdue her through brute strength alone. Of couse he could have also tried a psychological attack like saying that he would go and help Netero fight the king if she refuses or something like that and knowing how protective the guards are when it comes o the king, that could've definitely forced her to save Kite(well, if she could). There are several things he could have done. They could have failed or succeeded which brings us back to my previous point that nothing was 100% certain (especially when even Komugi's presence changed nothing to the fate of Kite). Komugi was hardly indispensable although she did help. |
AgafinMar 13, 2015 6:13 AM
Mar 13, 2015 6:13 AM
#233
Forgetfulness said: Mikasa said: Has to be on a surfaceSpeaking of plot holes, why can't Robin make hands inside bodies and have them explode? Or rip their organs apart? Although she probably could used it more effectively with some imagination. Like growing arms on them and plucking their eyes out Says who? It's still plot hole-filled like you suggested. Another thing is how Bleachbeard is tangible. It makes no sense, whatsoever. People basically turn themselves into sand, fire, whatever, making their bodies no longer existent, even if he can't do that, he can still shroud himself entirely in darkness and have it absorb everything, achieving the same effect. |
End Zionazism |
Mar 13, 2015 6:15 AM
#234
ToG25thBaam said: lel, one of the latest chapters had a mecha so your joke might not be so far from the truth.inb4 tech |
Mar 13, 2015 6:42 AM
#235
ToG25thBaam said: soundscape said: So have you watched HxH2011 or not and how much of it? I am confused. Again power standing or anywhere else it isn't cheap because of reason I already stated. The nakama power up out of nowhere is what is cheap. It is cheap when it isn't logically explainable,doesn't fit the power system and is an asspull. Not when it was well thought out and in line with the power system,you may not like it but that's a different thing. I am not gonna lie and say that I liked that Aluka's power was with no consequences when Killua is using it(although symbolically it makes sense, you do something for people you love without asking anything in return), but yea I am not a fan of this moment . But as with everything else Togashi has explained in great detail how something works and it always made sense, but the anime ended and there wasn't any explanation yet. Not to mention that Alluka's power might not even be Nen as I heard... Emotional or not is irrelevant in this discussion, also how can you talk about anything out of context?.Gon doesn't get ressurected. He reverts him to his previous body state,that's all. And Gon does pay for his recklesness even after he is "healed" Manga spoiller he doesn't get his Nen back, and who knows what else he might have lost(like life span) Started where after Gon and Killua got transported to "Ging", that's the beginning of CA, up until where Meruem started to feel something for Komugi, while Gon and co. were fighting fodder ants. I wasn't pointing out the flaw of the system, it's legit, all I did said was that I didn't like it, just because it's in-line with the power system doesn't make it better, at least for me. We may have different standard and view for what is cheap or not. It just seems easy to power up. By the way, can the vows & limitations thing be done more than once? although symbolically it makes sense, you do something for people you love without asking anything in return I don't think symbolic is the right word for it.What I meant by out of context is to exclude the emotions behind every sacrifices made. It became, Gon chose to go down the path of doom himself -> Nen's rule: You sacrifice something to gain something -> Killua wants to heal him -> Ask Alluka for help -> Alluka grants Killua his wish without tax -> Gon's healed, making the said sacrifice somewhat void. Doesn't mean that he didn't suffer, but he's supposed to be done in. (note: I do not want Gon dead, just in case you think I just want to see some blood) I didn't know about his broken ki-centre opps Nen, now I am interested in where Togashi is going with him power wise. Gon wouldn't sit still being powerless, but without Nen he can't be strong. inb4 tech Now here is where I completely disagree and tend to believe that we actually have a different view on what is cheap. You believe that it was easy to power up like that whereas it is far from easy. I'll introduce a different point of view for you here... The stornger the vow and the stricter the limitation, the stronger the power you obtain is(with a limit to every individual's potential of course). Things like Kurapika's "indistructible" chains or Gon's transformation are far from easy to obtain, this extent of power can be attained only by a strong emotion driving you. If for example I kinda want to win an opponent or I kinda want to become a great baskeball player but I don't particulary have a strong motivation than the amount of action towards that single goal will be small. The power that you get when the vow and limitation is weak (when you sacrifice little and your emotion is weak) the power you get in return is weak. Vows and limitaions come from an emotion, it is what you want and how much you want it that makes for a great power. Obviosly that is not easy and not everyone can achieve great power. It's like in real life there is only 1% of rich people because they want it that much and they are willing to do things that 99% of people aren't willing to do. That is not easy. It is the same thing why there are only like 500 hunters in the whole HxH universe and among those Hunters Gon is a specially talented one. It would be better if you actually finished the CA arc,so you could have a better view, but it's ok. Gon wasn't supposed to be done in, you don't know what exactly he vowed except for Nen. Maybe he vowed span of life and not his life itself. You should spoiler Manga spoilers. |
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mar 13, 2015 6:47 AM
#236
RedRoseFring said: soundscape said: RedRoseFring said: Agafin said: I have the impression that Gon was underestimating Pitou. He probably wanted to use Killua's lightning to paralyse her or while he weakens her with his RPS (kinda like against Rammot but a much more stronger version of that combo since they trained for one month). Although he probably had the idea of the vow since some time (there was even a slight foreshadow just before the invasion that he had some dark plan), I don't think it's something that he could just spam on the instant without some trigger (like confirmation of Kite's death) so a prior plan like what I mentioned was needed. Still, Pitou is strong, doubt it would have worked. I doubt he'd underestimate her that badly since he didn't do that with anyone else. Her dealing with Kite should have been more than enough indication. The boys were way too smart to go into a fight holding back against her. I'm starting to find it problematic that no reasonable plan could have been enforced without the presence of Komugi. Sacrificing his nen would not have lasted long enough for her to return Kite, nor allow him to subdue her. They were also entering under the assumption that she and the other guards would do anything to protect the King. It makes the entire situation more questionable when it seems the set up was tailor made only to make the following sequence of events possible. You are making wild assumptions here for how long his transformation would have lasted and that he couldn't subdue her. I disagree. Gon would definitely not have thought that the transformation would last forever, so I don't even need to use the short time it did last for that. He could definitely have beaten her in Gon-san mode since he so greatly outpowered her, but he had no means to make her submissive to restore Kite. The whole thing only makes sense if he was planning to straight out kill her, not force her to somehow restore Kite. How about if he just broke her legs and arms? Tadaaaaa..... subdued. |
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mar 13, 2015 9:20 AM
#237
At this point Togashi doesn't give a shit about the manga and the fans. It has been months since his supposed injury and he has been taking his sweet time with the updates. Fuck this fat sack shit. |
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Mar 13, 2015 9:35 AM
#238
soundscape said: I added a spoiler tag for the last one.Now here is where I completely disagree and tend to believe that we actually have a different view on what is cheap. You believe that it was easy to power up like that whereas it is far from easy. I'll introduce a different point of view for you here... The stornger the vow and the stricter the limitation, the stronger the power you obtain is(with a limit to every individual's potential of course). Things like Kurapika's "indistructible" chains or Gon's transformation are far from easy to obtain, this extent of power can be attained only by a strong emotion driving you. If for example I kinda want to win an opponent or I kinda want to become a great baskeball player but I don't particulary have a strong motivation than the amount of action towards that single goal will be small. The power that you get when the vow and limitation is weak (when you sacrifice little and your emotion is weak) the power you get in return is weak. Vows and limitaions come from an emotion, it is what you want and how much you want it that makes for a great power. Obviosly that is not easy and not everyone can achieve great power. It's like in real life there is only 1% of rich people because they want it that much and they are willing to do things that 99% of people aren't willing to do. That is not easy. It is the same thing why there are only like 500 hunters in the whole HxH universe and among those Hunters Gon is a specially talented one. It would be better if you actually finished the CA arc,so you could have a better view, but it's ok. Gon wasn't supposed to be done in, you don't know what exactly he vowed except for Nen. Maybe he vowed span of life and not his life itself. You should spoiler Manga spoilers. I will also give another example and compare it with yours. Let's say, hmm.. okay, take Luffy from One Piece for example, (One Piece anime spoiler) he wanted to save his brother so much he is willing to sacrifice everything to do so, but he clearly can't because he's not strong enough, feelings alone ain't enough. Let's first ignore the fact that Ace was just a plot device and was supposed to die, Luffy couldn't even put up a decent fight against any high mid tier fighters, and if Luffy somehow able to get past/defeats the admirals, people would be calling asspull on it all the time. Now, take a look at your example, it's identical, right? But in HxH it would be accepted just because it has such a rule that allows it to happen, and that rule is what I meant by cheap. I've said this many times already, but the rule is legit, because it's established within the universe, but liking or disliking it is a different matter. I hope you can see where I am coming from. This is also what I meant by taking it out of context, because in context, there are many factors that made the scene great, such as Gon's hypocrisy for one. I am not really motivated to complete the anime. I know it gets a lot better later on, but right now at the point where I am at, it's hard to get through. The manga is also on hiatus, which puts a damp on my interest. He was in terrible state wasn't he? That's not supposed to kill him? o_O He can get to his peak (just assuming that was his peak) without sacrificing his life? Hmm. he'd be making meruem his ping pong ball if he choose to sacrifice his life Lahi said: You should get used to it, if we're lucky he would release 2 months worth of chapters a year.[/spoiler]At this point Togashi doesn't give a shit about the manga and the fans. It has been months since his supposed injury and he has been taking his sweet time with the updates. Fuck this fat sack shit. |
Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
Mar 13, 2015 9:38 AM
#239
soundscape said: How about if he just broke her legs and arms? Tadaaaaa..... subdued. She doesn't need arms or legs to use her power, plus she'd obviously refuse to help an enemy of the king. She'd just keep on attacking until he was forced to kill her. It was repeated over and over again that the guard would never do anything to endanger the king. |
"Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Mar 13, 2015 10:11 AM
#240
RedRoseFring said: soundscape said: How about if he just broke her legs and arms? Tadaaaaa..... subdued. She doesn't need arms or legs to use her power, plus she'd obviously refuse to help an enemy of the king. She'd just keep on attacking until he was forced to kill her. It was repeated over and over again that the guard would never do anything to endanger the king. We are talking about an alternative hypothetical plan that doesn't involve Komugi. Gon didn't know about her abilities, he can perfectly assume that taking her legs and arms would be enough. How will she use her ability if he holds her down after breaking her arms and legs? |
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mar 13, 2015 10:18 AM
#241
soundscape said: We are talking about an alternative hypothetical plan that doesn't involve Komugi. Gon didn't know about her abilities, he can perfectly assume that taking her legs and arms would be enough. How will she use her ability if he holds her down after breaking her arms and legs? He did know about her abilities. Did you forget he saw Kite? Of course he didn't know the details, but for a conjuring ability like that, it is the most logical conclusion. |
"Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Mar 13, 2015 10:27 AM
#242
ToG25thBaam said: soundscape said: I added a spoiler tag for the last one.Now here is where I completely disagree and tend to believe that we actually have a different view on what is cheap. You believe that it was easy to power up like that whereas it is far from easy. I'll introduce a different point of view for you here... The stornger the vow and the stricter the limitation, the stronger the power you obtain is(with a limit to every individual's potential of course). Things like Kurapika's "indistructible" chains or Gon's transformation are far from easy to obtain, this extent of power can be attained only by a strong emotion driving you. If for example I kinda want to win an opponent or I kinda want to become a great baskeball player but I don't particulary have a strong motivation than the amount of action towards that single goal will be small. The power that you get when the vow and limitation is weak (when you sacrifice little and your emotion is weak) the power you get in return is weak. Vows and limitaions come from an emotion, it is what you want and how much you want it that makes for a great power. Obviosly that is not easy and not everyone can achieve great power. It's like in real life there is only 1% of rich people because they want it that much and they are willing to do things that 99% of people aren't willing to do. That is not easy. It is the same thing why there are only like 500 hunters in the whole HxH universe and among those Hunters Gon is a specially talented one. It would be better if you actually finished the CA arc,so you could have a better view, but it's ok. Gon wasn't supposed to be done in, you don't know what exactly he vowed except for Nen. Maybe he vowed span of life and not his life itself. You should spoiler Manga spoilers. I will also give another example and compare it with yours. Let's say, hmm.. okay, take Luffy from One Piece for example, (One Piece anime spoiler) he wanted to save his brother so much he is willing to sacrifice everything to do so, but he clearly can't because he's not strong enough, feelings alone ain't enough. Let's first ignore the fact that Ace was just a plot device and was supposed to die, Luffy couldn't even put up a decent fight against any high mid tier fighters, and if Luffy somehow able to get past/defeats the admirals, people would be calling asspull on it all the time. Now, take a look at your example, it's identical, right? But in HxH it would be accepted just because it has such a rule that allows it to happen, and that rule is what I meant by cheap. I've said this many times already, but the rule is legit, because it's established within the universe, but liking or disliking it is a different matter. I hope you can see where I am coming from. This is also what I meant by taking it out of context, because in context, there are many factors that made the scene great, such as Gon's hypocrisy for one. I am not really motivated to complete the anime. I know it gets a lot better later on, but right now at the point where I am at, it's hard to get through. The manga is also on hiatus, which puts a damp on my interest. He was in terrible state wasn't he? That's not supposed to kill him? o_O He can get to his peak (just assuming that was his peak) without sacrificing his life? Hmm. he'd be making meruem his ping pong ball if he choose to sacrifice his life Lahi said: You should get used to it, if we're lucky he would release 2 months worth of chapters a year.[/spoiler]At this point Togashi doesn't give a shit about the manga and the fans. It has been months since his supposed injury and he has been taking his sweet time with the updates. Fuck this fat sack shit. I didn't want to bring OP in the discussion and I won't, this can go badly. As I said Gon is like the 1% of the 1% of the whole population (in terms of talent, potential and will). The fact that in HxH it is allowed this is true, it is its battle system but it is not allowed easily. You pointed out that it is cheap and as a main argument you point out because it is easy and anyone can do it, right? And I pointed it out that this is not true. So if "easy" is not a criteria for you for something being cheap, can you please just clarify what is the primal criteria that you feel makes something is cheap? You are just making assumptions here, nothing I can argue with, I just disagree cause as I stated we don't know what was specifically his vow. |
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mar 13, 2015 10:28 AM
#243
RedRoseFring said: soundscape said: We are talking about an alternative hypothetical plan that doesn't involve Komugi. Gon didn't know about her abilities, he can perfectly assume that taking her legs and arms would be enough. How will she use her ability if he holds her down after breaking her arms and legs? He did know about her abilities. Did you forget he saw Kite? Of course he didn't know the details, but for a conjuring ability like that, it is the most logical conclusion. No he didn't know about Terpschichora. |
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mar 13, 2015 10:48 AM
#244
soundscape said: No he didn't know about Terpschichora. He didn't know about that specific ability, but he knew Pitou could make puppets out of people. Same goes for the puppet soldiers they knew about in Gorteau. |
"Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Mar 13, 2015 10:55 AM
#245
RedRoseFring said: soundscape said: No he didn't know about Terpschichora. He didn't know about that specific ability, but he knew Pitou could make puppets out of people. Same goes for the puppet soldiers they knew about in Gorteau. That's not enough to assume anything about Pitou's abilities. They knew one ability and that it worked on others. As I said he might have though he could just break her legs and arms and hold her down or sth... I dunno, just taking wild guessed here. But it is sure that something was surely on their minds besides using Komugi. |
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mar 13, 2015 11:03 AM
#246
Lahi said: At this point Togashi doesn't give a shit about the manga and the fans. It has been months since his supposed injury and he has been taking his sweet time with the updates. Fuck this fat sack shit. Man I'd even take scribbles at this point, just continue and let the anime fix the art and animation. The volumes can be redrawn by her wife. |
Mar 13, 2015 11:05 AM
#247
soundscape said: That's not enough to assume anything about Pitou's abilities. They knew one ability and that it worked on others. As I said he might have though he could just break her legs and arms and hold her down or sth... I dunno, just taking wild guessed here. But it is sure that something was surely on their minds besides using Komugi. That's exactly the problem. They were too meticulous to overlook something like that. They knew Pitou had such long range control over the puppets, so to think that just taking out her arms or legs would leave her powerless is too careless for the level of preparation they did. |
"Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Mar 13, 2015 11:49 AM
#248
ichii_1 said: Lahi said: At this point Togashi doesn't give a shit about the manga and the fans. It has been months since his supposed injury and he has been taking his sweet time with the updates. Fuck this fat sack shit. Man I'd even take scribbles at this point, just continue and let the anime fix the art and animation. The volumes can be redrawn by her wife. What anime? Hunter x Hunter 2027? |
5 main aspects I base my ratings on: 1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it? 2. Is it better than Breaking Bad? 3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it? 4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL? 5. Is it actually good? Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant... |
Mar 13, 2015 11:50 AM
#249
geralt said: ichii_1 said: Lahi said: At this point Togashi doesn't give a shit about the manga and the fans. It has been months since his supposed injury and he has been taking his sweet time with the updates. Fuck this fat sack shit. Man I'd even take scribbles at this point, just continue and let the anime fix the art and animation. The volumes can be redrawn by her wife. What anime? Hunter x Hunter 2027? A man can hope, can't he? |
"Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Mar 13, 2015 11:57 AM
#250
geralt said: ichii_1 said: Lahi said: At this point Togashi doesn't give a shit about the manga and the fans. It has been months since his supposed injury and he has been taking his sweet time with the updates. Fuck this fat sack shit. Man I'd even take scribbles at this point, just continue and let the anime fix the art and animation. The volumes can be redrawn by her wife. What anime? Hunter x Hunter 2027? 1 chapter has enough content for 1 ep and then some. They can easily run both at the same time without catching up as long as chapters are released. |
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