| So who's version of Hokage do you agree with? I'm interested in seeing is there anyone who agree with Sasuke's idea of starting anew and destroying any ties to the past. |
ItachiOct 3, 2014 6:17 PM
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| Sasuke's. I feel it's more realistic. I find myself generally choosing Sasuke's side of the conflict, even though Naruto is one of my top favorite characters in the series, while Sasuke isn't. |
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| I don't particularly agree or disagree with Sasuke's definition, but I can definitely see his point. I do like his point concerning Itachi though, and how good a Hokage he would have made. |
| Neither, really. Sasuke's definition is realistic, but it's nowhere reachable. He intends to complete the goal all by himself, which isn't possibile since, according to Itachi, no matter how strong you are, you cannot do things on your own. (Obito and Madara are a good example). Naruto's definition on the other hand is pretty childish, and way more unreachable than Sasuke's. |
| putting aside the "kill the hokages and best friend" part,i agree with sasuke more.From my point of view Naruto (putting aside the fact that he's the mc and will obviously BEST HOECARGAY EVVA) would end up being like that one teacher who is really lax and gives out free marks and ends up being loved by the students but is really doing more damage than good.Whereas In Sasuke's case sure he's a dick,sure he'll be hated,but at the end of the day anyone would think twice before causing trouble under his iron rule |
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| Bump Sasuke's idea does seem more realistic when I think about it but there's still the fact he's shouldering this all alone so there's the he will fail eventually. I'mma still go with Sasuke's idea though. |
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| Neither. Naruto and Sasuke are basically two sides of the same coin and that’s why their definitions of Hokage are mirror images of each other. Essentially, one believes in a Hokage who is loved by the people and protects everyone, advocating camaraderie, while the other believes in a Hokage that rules over people even if they hate him, taking on all that hate upon himself à la Lelouch, only he plans to stay alive unlike the former's Zero Requiem. Yet after the events that happened in the Fourth Shinobi World War, I don't think a Hokage, or any Kage for that matter, is needed anymore. There should be a single governing body that should monitor things in the ninja world. And that's where I agree with Sasuke that the current system should be deleted and dissolved, but he's going about it the wrong way naturally. I personally like the idea of Sage Naruto travelling the world and ending conflicts like Hagoromo did in his period, but considering how his goal of being Hokage has remained a fixture in the series and is one of the primary things that moves the plot forward, that idea is doubtful to happen. So I agree with neither, and think both are doomed to fail in the long run since peace is unreachable in the Shinobi world. As long as there is Ninjutsu and Chakra, which is the root cause of conflict (ever since Hagoromo's peaceful concept of Ninshuu was weaponized) there will always be war and neither Sasuke nor Naruto can really change that I'm afraid. The cycle will simply rinse and repeat once they're both dead. |
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| Leading by fear gets you no where. Sasuke's ideology is wrong from the start. |
Stay in yesterday 時を止めて |
| Sasuke's definition is more realistic. Yes, in the beginning he wouldn't be recognized but I think he could create a peaceful and prosperous village. Killing everyone from the past isn't right of course, but I can see his point, he wants to eradicate the past and create a bright future for Konoha. Naruto's definition seems more childish to me. He is loved and recognized by everyone, but I don't think he is really suited for this stuff, hokage aside from having power need to be clever, make arrangements, negotiations etc. |
danae17 said: Killing everyone from the past isn't right of course It's not everyone. (5 kages + Tailed beasts + Naruto) |
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| Since everyone here says that Sasuke definition is more realistic, would you mind to elaborate that to me? I am not sure I understand what you mean by realistic. |
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
| Naruto may be being too idealistic with his dreams of achieving peace, but Sasuke is just being an idiot. I'm definitely on Naruto's side on this one. |
on 
| They're both opposites of each other, so I suppose the mosy ideal idea of hokage is somewhere in the middle. Either way, achieving peace, justice etc. requires lots of hard work, not just from the hokage but from every member of society. Also, it's a long process which might take several generations, making everything go well in a bang with a revolution is just stupid and naive. And the most important thing - no matter who's the ruler or what the rule is, life will never be perfect for everybody, hence people live their happy lifes in expense of other's happiness so there will always be conflict. |
tsudecimo said: danae17 said: Killing everyone from the past isn't right of course It's not everyone. (5 kages + Tailed beasts + Naruto) Sorry I picked the wrong words, that's what I meant though |
| I can't see how people think Sasuke's version is realistic. When did someone ever tried it before? The problem here is that he thinks the beasts and the kage are the only thing that keeps the world in the past when in truth it is the whole ninja thing. System are complex things that don't just end when someone wants it to (just think about communism. It looks great on paper but it was so discredited that it sounds almost idiotic now). Especially alone. In truth the only way to end it right now is to let the IT turn veryone into Zetsus. Thinking about it Kakashi would make a good Hokage because he knows how the world works, he would be good at diplomacy but would know when to use force if necessary wich I think Naruto would't. Personally I think complete peace and justice is something that humans can't achieve because to it even be reachable everyone would need to have similar mentalities, but being creatures moved by different personal reasons it's just impossible. Just think about the seven sins, lust, pride, glutony, greed, wrath, envy all are somehow caused by egotistical reasons because it's natural for humans to think about ourselves first. Now if it would me the one to come up with a solution I think the chakra should go, and with chakra I mean even the tailed beasts. It causes too much conflict. The ninshuu was a good idea but it turned out bad when people realised it could be used for battle instead of conciliation. People would find out new ways to battle but with the recent events there would be at least some cooldown time. |
Benphyre said: Leading by fear gets you no where. Sasuke's ideology is wrong from the start. Chances are you've never gone to boarding school |
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| I still can't see how is Sasuke's idea more realistic. If I had to chose, I would say that Naruto's idea is by far more realistic. Sasuke basically wants to eradicate evil by using iron fist. But people have free will, and that is their biggest treasure. So, in order to have peace it has to be based on free will. Iron fist just wont cut it. I can understand Sasuke's idea, but it will all fall apart once he is gone. Basically, he wants to FORCE people into peace, which is not impossible considering that if Naruto is dead, basically no one can oppose him. If you put a brick wall in front of people, they will have to take other way if they want to proceed. But, once that brick wall is gone, they can just return on the old way. It was similar to what Light did in Death Note. He forced people to obey peace, but once he was dead it all returned to how it was before. So that idea will just crumble, in itself when Sasuke is gone. But take Naruto's idea for example. Even though you all say his idea is childish, I disagree. We have all seen how people can work towards the same goal together. If that is possible, then it is possible to achieve peace as well. First, let me add that true peace can't be achieved, at least not by definition of having all good and nothing bad. They are two sides of the same coin, and one can exist without other. In war, people teamed up to destroy greater evil- Madara. If he is gone, they will just continue fighting between themselves. But, if people can use their free will for making peace, it is possible to achieve it. Evil would still exist and it would be present in one for or another, but if all people worked together towards something greater then that evil would be insignificant. That is something even we try to achieve in real wold. Because cooperation is basis for better world. In the end, it splits up like this- Do you want peace for a shorter time, but with no violence at all, or do you want cooperation towards something, where evil will still be present, but grounds can be made towards a better world in the long run. In the end, I chose later. True peace can't be achieved, but even if it is not real, Naruto's version would last longer. |
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
| I agree more with Naruto. Cutting of the past is wrong as I feel it is the past that makes us who we are. There are bad and there are good experiences but at the end of the day I wouldn't have it any other way. Besides, Naruto is someone who really does earn the respect of others and I definitely feel its more of a thing that the village has to decide for itself lol. If anything I see Sasuke's version as the more childish idea here. Kinda seems like the whole 'cutting of your nose to spite the face' thing. I can't respect someone who would throw away the past or cut loose any ties they may have with other people in order to do what they think is the right way to go about something. Seems pretty selfish to me and I would certainly never want to become like them. I never liked the whole thing of someone becoming the target for everyone's hatred in order to create peace. That seems more ridiculous to me. Like when Pain was gonna create a weapon that could destroy countries... |
cloud8100Oct 4, 2014 4:17 PM
| Both have flaws and upsides. Naruto: Realizes that the past is something we learn from and use to improve ourselves, but his visions for peace are to idealistic (and does he even have a plan for attaining peace?). Sasuke: Has a realistic plan, but is painting the "past" as black when it is more grey. I would usually agree with the "one person can't change anything" argument, but Sasuke is so powerful at this point that no one could oppose him excluding Naruto (hence why he must kill Naruto). Honestly, I'm loving the contrasting political-views between Naruto and Sasuke right now, it's really interesting. I'm probably going to go with Sasuke's plan because of realism. |
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| Even though I dislike Sasuke I will vote for him now. His approach is more realistic. One cannot change the world with pretty words alone. Sometimes in order to do what you believe is right sacrifices are necessary. |
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Minagatachi said: Both have flaws and upsides. Naruto: Realizes that the past is something we learn from and use to improve ourselves, but his visions for peace are to idealistic (and does he even have a plan for attaining peace?). Sasuke: Has a realistic plan, but is painting the "past" as black when it is more grey [plus the 'moral' implications of killings those associated with the current system]. I would usually agree with the "one person can't change anything" argument, but Sasuke is so powerful at this point that no one could oppose him excluding Naruto (hence why he must kill Naruto). Honestly, I'm loving the contrasting political-views between Naruto and Sasuke right now, it's really interesting... ^ My thoughts exactly, |
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| Sasuke's idea reminds me of a tactical mean that some Managers tend to be overly strict with their employees, therefore they all have a common enemy and bond more easily. |
| Eh |
Dimitrije1606 said: Since everyone here says that Sasuke definition is more realistic, would you mind to elaborate that to me? I am not sure I understand what you mean by realistic. I'd say the better word to use would be "logical",as sasuke's version is in essence,more or less ruling with an iron fist,which......kinda works.Whereas Naruto's is more idealistic,more of a "talk and they'll listen" approach,and he's under the impression that "everyone" will listen |
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