TonyTonyStark said: xmaikokoro said: I think for quite a few people the Yorknew Arc, is where the series becomes top notch while the Chimera Ant Arc wavers between "masterpiece" and "trash" and heavily divides the viewers. That's completely untrue and inaccurate. More popularity = more vocal people. All I've seen are the same persistent aggressive people over and over. Judging by episode ratings and the consistent rank-ups, tells a completely different story. So this is as controversial and divisive as Yorknew was, proportionally. I greatly disagree. Manga readers should know how divisive the Chimera Ant Arc was among the readers. The anime is not much different as the content is the same. Ratings should not count for anything, it is only for this site after all. Yorknew is generally accepted as a well-rounded arc while the Chimera Ant Arc suffers from ups and downs that people greatly dislike. There are many things such as narration, fodder fights, and general unexpectedness that pull people away. Of course not everyone either thinks it's a masterpiece or trash, there is definitely an in-between. But I have seen plenty of people call the arc "not HxH" and just plain "not good" (and mind you, these are manga readers). In any case, I'm not on this thread to really talk about how the Chimera Ant Arc is regarded by everyone because I have my own perspective of the situation. All I'm doing is explaining why I think the way I do. Now, what you have seen might be different from what I've seen and that's fine. But that does not mean you should force what you've see on others and call it reality. I'm just giving the OP a heads up that not everyone thinks the Chimera Ant Arc is the best arc of HxH as he seems to only know one side of the whole story. |
| Most manga readers I talked to who read the arc in it's original run have said that the main reason that the arc was so divisive was because of the hiatuses. Considering how well received the anime version of the arc has been I'm inclined to believe them. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| I've followed the manga since 2007, and the frustration came from the histuses. The unconventional content raised about the same criticism as Yorknew, however. More often do you see people praising CA as their favorite arc, even going on to say it's the best written in the genre occasionally. It wins more polls against yorknew than the opposite. Now that the hiatus is out of the equation, with the anime, you see the criticism as only a few vocal people. Always associated with familiar usernames. As opposed to your 50% hate it/50% love it implication. I wasnt trying to force anything, but if we use that logic, Yorknew is also divisive. So was the exam arc. And pretty much everything else in the show. when it comes to statistics, there's hardly room for "way I see it". I'm only saying if you really believe in that divisive claim, some figures would be nice. |
| Why does this thread exist? |
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johnyjohny said: Why does this thread exist? Every popular/well-received show has these types of threads. It's like a rite of passage or something. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
NHS-KEMISH said: This anime is about development, is not like other Shounens that characters are introduce but there is only little development between them. HxH is about how their bonds grow stronger as the story continues, if you dont know why Killua is so fond to Gon, you won't understand his actions. That is literally every shounen ever. |
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| I do believe that most of the frustration came from the constant hiatuses but most people I know in real life that have read the arc was left with very little impression of it as well as discontent. I would rather not go into statistics because statistics can be misleading and correlation does not equal causation. It is a matter of the "way you see it." Numbers can be bent to enforce your argument and that is why companies use and bend them. This is why I rather speak about this logically. My view is that Yorknew is a solidly written arc. There is rarely a dull moment that people would often point to it as being "weak" in comparison to the rest. Yorknew is also a good arc that almost anyone can enjoy with quite little to actually pick at. But in the Chimera Ant Arc, I have seen people like Cresherhsm claim that episodes such as the 90s are weak. I have also seen someone say that the needle part was the weakest part of HxH and that Togashi had gotten lazy during those parts in the series. The Chimera Ant Arc has its ups and downs. It's ups are great as well as its themes and I can understand why people may consider the arc a masterpiece. However, the downs are not small in number and that is where the discontent comes from. It is quite obvious that even the most hardcore fans of HxH have expressed some discontent of certain episodes of the Chimera Ant Arc. And when even the biggest fans of HxH may have some qualms about the episodes, more casual viewers may harbor great disliking. |
| Since when are statistics the opposite of logic? If you think they can be manipulated, simply don't manipulated them. Since you're the one who was asked to present them, the decision of bending them or not is up to you. So every claim we make will be based on emotional experiences and minuscule samples (such as a group of irl friends) of a large population (fanbase worldwide) of people. That's even smaller than MAL which you claimed to not be a big enough representation. :P Certain heated moments like the ross and the needle are the reason we have discussions, which we will not delve into. A lot of heated discussions stem from Yorknew as well. Kurapika's power, how it ended "anticlimactically", the exam had its share of how the tournament went. Your opinion of it having its ups and downs is yours, and doesn't really represent the claim of it being divisive yet. I for one, disagree. I found it to be consistently improving. Also, HxH was too short by the time we got to Yorknew to identify "hardcore fans" to begin with, so that's also not very accurate. |
| Statistics are not the opposite of logic. But if you have taken a statistics class, the most basic rule is that correlation does not equal causation. Just because you see something that seems to suggest something else does not mean it does. I never asked to present numbers because they can be manipulated even without meaning to. Like I said in my earlier posts, I am merely explaining my view of the situation. And of course it can be different from yours because we did not see the same exact things. This is why I said this: xmaikokoro said: In any case, I'm not on this thread to really talk about how the Chimera Ant Arc is regarded by everyone because I have my own perspective of the situation. Now what I do not understand is why this "discussion" is taking place. It's akin to questioning why someone else has different views of the world than you when the reason is because they were not raised and exposed to the same things you were. It's just that simple. This is my view of how the Chimera Ant Arc is regarded by people and my interpretation only. Whether it is right or wrong is irrelevant because I never tried to argue that I was right. |
| Fun fact: all what we're dealing with here IS statistics. Yours was simply put based on a very small sample, despite you saying MAL itself was too small to represent it. Your "view of the situation" is still based on statistics, you weighted the reception of yorknew by others against CA's. I merely said they weren't quite accurate. Aside from statistics, what's left is just a guessing game. Yes, my view is different from yours. both views are technically statistics, but they are affected by our own environment and how we perceived the reception to be. Hence, your and my views on the subject ARE what is the manipulated statistics refer to, which is shown by the differnce. That's why we have to resort to a larger scale statistic. The "manipulation" disadvantage is applied to every form of statistic, but larger populations help mitigate the inaccuracies. The point of the discussion is how CA is received anyway. I only know one friend who's caught up with HxH, and he did not like the ending. Am I gonna say 100% of the fans (or 50 including myself) hated it? No. We're talking about the entire fanbase, so the bigger the sample the better. |
| I don't see how mine was too small to represent it. I took from MAL, a blogging site, my friends, and even other websites have attributed to what I believe now. I am not using statistics. Proportions are not statistics, it's just math. Statistics is mostly taking numbers and testing to see whether an inkling you have about the numbers proves true by undergoing multiple hypotheses tests and seeing if the p-value is statistically significant enough to prove your hypothesis. And no, a larger sample size does not always help deal with inaccuracies. It's like trying to figure out why shoplifting increases when more ice cream is sold. A bigger sample size will continue to prove that to be true but the reason is not because more ice cream is sold, it's because the weather is getting warmer and people are more inclined to go outside and shop (and that includes the shoplifters). Also, proportions do not change by much as you increase the sample size as long as you had a reasonable sample size to begin with. In any case, this thread has been derailed and I see no point in continuing our "discussion" because all it is is you trying to prove why my view of the situation was wrong when I never had the intention of saying that it was right since I had only replied in order to elaborate why I felt that way. |
| You said "Ratings should not count for anything, it is only for this site after all." But okay, if you are counting MAL now:care to clarify how it is divided? The way i see it is that the way you see it is blurred by the illusion of the "vocal minority", because 92% for the arc's ending and making it to the top 11 certainly doesn't show divisiveness. A blogging site; care to post a link? So, you "took a look" at these sites, and decided to just judge that it's divided because somehow looking further and counting can make it... Manipulated? Didn't you technically just manipulate it by accident? Actually they do change. You didn't offer a very coherent sample to begin with. (Seriously i'm still waiting for any site at all where it's as controversial as you make it out to be, even small ones). And yes, in this case it does. We are looking at how people judged the chimera ant arc (liked it versus disliked it). The fact is that the most accurate representation is to include them all participants. Simple logic. That icecream analogy is way too shoe horned IMO we're not talking about two different things and how they correlate to each other. We're talking about a direct consensus: Did they like it or not? And if a certain percentage of dislike is enough to warrant calling it "divisive". |
xmaikokoro said: I do believe that most of the frustration came from the constant hiatuses but most people I know in real life that have read the arc was left with very little impression of it as well as discontent. I would rather not go into statistics because statistics can be misleading and correlation does not equal causation. It is a matter of the "way you see it." Numbers can be bent to enforce your argument and that is why companies use and bend them. This is why I rather speak about this logically. My view is that Yorknew is a solidly written arc. There is rarely a dull moment that people would often point to it as being "weak" in comparison to the rest. Yorknew is also a good arc that almost anyone can enjoy with quite little to actually pick at. But in the Chimera Ant Arc, I have seen people like Cresherhsm claim that episodes such as the 90s are weak. I have also seen someone say that the needle part was the weakest part of HxH and that Togashi had gotten lazy during those parts in the series. The Chimera Ant Arc has its ups and downs. It's ups are great as well as its themes and I can understand why people may consider the arc a masterpiece. However, the downs are not small in number and that is where the discontent comes from. It is quite obvious that even the most hardcore fans of HxH have expressed some discontent of certain episodes of the Chimera Ant Arc. And when even the biggest fans of HxH may have some qualms about the episodes, more casual viewers may harbor great disliking. You are definitely not alone. From what I've seen even before watching the series, Yorknew gets a lot of praise with barely any dislike, but CA is more divisive. It also seems like it is a very specific element that CA gets praise for, and only those that care very much about it end up placing the arc as their favourite. Not to mention that when being recommended, people suggest Yorknew as the minimum to see. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| See xmai? Vocal few with familiar names? Mind you this is the same person who flopped all kinds of logic in the last YN vs CA discussion. |
| Ratings are just numbers. I'm not counting MAL's ratings because its rating can be increasing just due to popularity not general consensus on the newest episodes. Specifically what I am trying to show is not that 50% of people love and 50% of people hate it. It's not a 50/50 divide anyway. Just take a look at what alexlupu had just said. He greatly dislikes the Chimera Ant Arc. Now, who actually hates the Yorknew Arc? That's what I'm saying when it comes to divisive. There are people that hate the Chimera Ant Arc but Yorknew is almost never in the realm of hate. Yorknew is usually considered amazing, good, alright, or okay. www.lostinanime.com. In episode 94, someone in the comments and the blogger himself both have qualms about the episode's content. All I'm saying is a larger sample size will not necessarily change the outcome. The example may be shoehorned but it proves that a large sample size does not necessarily change the conclusion. And now this goes back to my first post and why I said it is divisive (by the way, divisive does not mean a 50/50 divide, it means to cause disagreement between people), I said so because the OP should know that not everyone considers the Chimera Ant Arc as a masterpiece and there are people that outright hate it. EDIT: TonyTonyStark said: See xmai? Vocal few with familiar names? Mind you this is the same person who flopped all kinds of logic in the last YN vs CA discussion. I don't see why he should be excluded from the sample. From what you're saying it's just a few people, and therefore they are insignificant; however, that is flawed logic, he is a part of the sample and never should not be. |
| And him alone doesn't represent the entire fan-base, as conveniently as his post came in. It's not 50/50? Then what is exactly your idea of it being divided? 70-30? 99-1? About enzo, someone in the comments? Really? That's what it takes? And Enzo himself found the episode to be amazing except for one minor gripe. He also said that the entire YN arc was tonally out of place since he was interested in Gon and Kil's development. So yeah, the same person you used as evudence of divisive rating made a bigger complaint about YN. Oh and did. I mention he said CA was the best arc in HxH and all of shonen? That's his opinion. Honestly the example doesnt prove much because it makes no sense regarding what we are discussing. What are ice creams supposed to represent in the analogy? Or the weather? That's conditional probability. We are directly talking about Ca. The more % of people who like it, the higher the % of people who liked it. Well if divides are as broadly identified as a discussion/disagreement then I already answered that: people DID criticize YN too, and The fact that CA is longer, and comes after YN (thus a higher population) help increase the numbers, whicb are roughly the same- RELATIVELY. |
| And when did I say he does? That's what I'm saying. It is a minor gripe but to others it may not be. There are tons of gripes people can have in the Chimera Ant Arc and they can add up even to some large fans. Now please point out where he made that his opinion. He has been gushing about the arc but he had not definitively said that the Chimera Ant Arc was his favorite yet, rather Heaven's Arena was. He may have had criticism for the Yorknew Arc but does he hate it? Plus, he is more interested in Gon and Killua, fair enough, but does that mean he thinks the arc is bad? I don't think so. He admits he is interested in something else but that does not mean he dismisses the Yorknew Arc for what it is. My point is that there are quite a few people hate the Chimera Ant Arc while there is barely any for Yorknew. And that large gap or divide between those that hate and love it is definitely present. Broadly identified? That is the what the term divisive means. And it also means to create hostility which is exactly what you are doing now just because I think that the arc is divisive among the fanbase. |
NHS-KEMISH said: I tsudecimo said: That is literally every shounen ever. I know, but HxH is different, it makes it different from the "other", That's my point. And that's fine if you believe so, it just doesn't mean to deny the existence of that in other series. |
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| It's great from the start and it gets dark soon. |
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DoctorWasabi said: Hunter X Hunter may seem childish and goofy at the beginning, but it's actually one of the darkest shows I've seen, it's not your typical Shonen either. Please don't skip!!! Please explain to me what is so dark about it? I am on episode 55 and didn't notice anything dark. Bunch of clowns killing hundreds of mafia mobs is dark to you? I've seen more darkness in first 10 pages of any good fantasy book. |
celebes said: DoctorWasabi said: Hunter X Hunter may seem childish and goofy at the beginning, but it's actually one of the darkest shows I've seen, it's not your typical Shonen either. Please don't skip!!! Please explain to me what is so dark about it? I am on episode 55 and didn't notice anything dark. Bunch of clowns killing hundreds of mafia mobs is dark to you? I've seen more darkness in first 10 pages of any good fantasy book. lol that was 3 years ago cele. After 3 years I have definitely seen more fucked up/dark shit than HXH 2011 by a landslide, but I could still say in 2017 that HXH is a shounen that is very different from your average one. And the show definitely emits a more serious and heavy tone as you continue to watch it, as shown in the auction arc and in the ant arc. So yea :P |
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| Yeah totally bland... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XnqUDIxZhw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vhp65bgKOo ...oh wait... |
| Sup... |
| From the second episode |
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| ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| It's simple, drop it. I love the show, and you don't, as simple as that. The show is said to be "masterpiece" by many people. there. "many people", not "everyone". But for the sake of your question "when". In my opinion, Episode 32 really hooked me up with the show. Well, I already love the show from episode 1, but my hype for this show came from episode 32. But it's really your call for watching that many episodes. |
| 4th times getting signature banned wtf |
| The anime is really good, it has 148 episodes. It sounds like you aren't prepared for anything of this length if you can't give it a good 20 episodes or so. The Chimera Ant arc is where the dark undertone sets in, if you have to skip just drop the anime. |
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Yeah and it tries so hard to pretentious and deep..its laughable |
| It gets good ep1 /shrug, but it gets really good at ep75ish |
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| The fourth arc (New York arc) |
| The answer to 1984 is 1776 |
| It gets good when you stop watching it. |
| For me it was on Heaven's Arena, when Nen kicks in. Hunter's arc was boring and the Killua rescue a bit anti climatic. Yorknew is fucking amazing, and the Chimera Ants have some of the peak moments of the series (while also some lows). |
| Don't worry. It gets darker and darker as you progress towards the series. Edit: Oh you already completed it. Such a sham it did not met your initial expectations about it. Well every one of us has their own tastes and preferences, do we? |
KirisakeiDec 23, 2020 2:53 PM
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