Natsu12345 said: Moe sells, that's all they want, but I like the classic arts/drawing better, those like inuyasha or ranma 1/2 By the way, does the art of Cross Game considered old? Or is it modern-ish? It isl older style revamped and updated with modern technology. It was good result of keeping the feeling of Adachi sensei distinctive and highly styled art style and modernized correctly. Something that did not happen quite well with Leiji Matsumoto art style and recent Ozuma, it ended up being kind of bland. Lupin 2012, is another good example of being true to the classic style but with modern look, keeping the spirit intact. Of course Ghibli productions are the best example of combination of both worlds. ronri said: jal90 said: There's so many images in there that I forgot which position were you trying to defend, 9988. Yeah I'm a bit lost on that one. Not gonna lie, I actually think the vast majority of the pics look great in their own right. There are just some comparison I found, merely posting not to back up any argument in specific. Just comparison and nostalgia´s sake. I love the OLD so much : Kabocha wien L-Shusuke - Maison Ikkoku but so I loved Lovely complex and Honey and clover, mind you, moe an fanservice were still not dominant with its elemets. So yes, there good series, art styles, etc, in the 2000s era as well.  |
9988Jan 17, 2013 5:27 AM
jkun said: I hope you don't honestly believe this.what do you mean "uber macho" ? you mean ... men? males are not supposed to look like they wear makeup and have tears in their eyes when things get tough |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
Carnival_Corpse said: Post-Josh said: jkun said: I hope you don't honestly believe this.what do you mean "uber macho" ? you mean ... men? males are not supposed to look like they wear makeup and have tears in their eyes when things get tough this is turning into a gender stereotype discussion For manliness, its extinct in this era pretty much but theres still JOJO:  |
Post-Josh said: jkun said: what do you mean "uber macho" ? you mean ... men? males are not supposed to look like they wear makeup and have tears in their eyes when things get tough I hope you don't honestly believe this. yes.. because why would "men" cry when being yelled at? it would just ruin their makeup! |
jkun said: Post-Josh said: jkun said: what do you mean "uber macho" ? you mean ... men? males are not supposed to look like they wear makeup and have tears in their eyes when things get tough I hope you don't honestly believe this. yes.. because why would "men" cry when being yelled at? it would just ruin their makeup! A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? |
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Well as a good example, Fate/Zero certainly has its decent share of male characters (both manly, handsome, moe, normal, and downright grotesque):             |
ronriJan 17, 2013 5:55 AM
yhunata said: A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? there is nothing wrong with a man crying, however, it gets a bit pathetic when the main character (who is supposed to save the day) cries 5-10 times every episode |
jkun said: yhunata said: A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? there is nothing wrong with a man crying, however, it gets a bit pathetic when the main character (who is supposed to save the day) cries 5-10 times every episode When the fuck did that happen? |
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yhunata said: jkun said: yhunata said: A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? there is nothing wrong with a man crying, however, it gets a bit pathetic when the main character (who is supposed to save the day) cries 5-10 times every episode When the fuck did that happen? Guilty Crown? But then again, Shu was based on Shinji anyway, so it was practically gonna be a given. Either way, topic is getting derailed. |
ronri said: yhunata said: jkun said: yhunata said: A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? there is nothing wrong with a man crying, however, it gets a bit pathetic when the main character (who is supposed to save the day) cries 5-10 times every episode When the fuck did that happen? Guilty Crown? But then again, Shu was based on Shinji anyway, so it was practically gonna be a given. Either way, topic is getting derailed. From what I can remember, And you just figured out that this thread is getting derailed? |
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jkun said: yhunata said: A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? there is nothing wrong with a man crying, however, it gets a bit pathetic when the main character (who is supposed to save the day) cries 5-10 times every episode I got it, your man is Karasuma. I should really stop giving School Rumble references to every jkun post, damn it. |
jal90Jan 17, 2013 6:06 AM
yhunata said: From what I can remember, And you just figured out that this thread is getting derailed? Oh no, I'm not denying the given reasons (as bad or as good as they could be), just pitching in the answer since it was the original example that was given. Also of course I figured it was getting derailed, that was just my declaration to steer clear of it. :P That said, I feel that I've said what I've needed to say in this thread so I've nothing else to add. |
ronri said: Oh no, I'm not denying the given reasons (as bad or as good as they could be), just pitching in the answer since it was the original example that was given. Well, wimp or no wimp, Shu isn't really the best example for a MC that cries 5-10 times each episode. How he made that connection, I don't really know. |
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srsly guise? wat da fuk happnd? yhunata said: I'm watching the show at the moment (Mostly so I can see Shu turn into Hitler) and I call bullshit on this too. I don't think I've seen him cry onceronri said: Oh no, I'm not denying the given reasons (as bad or as good as they could be), just pitching in the answer since it was the original example that was given. Well, wimp or no wimp, Shu isn't really the best example for a MC that cries 5-10 times each episode. How he made that connection, I don't really know. |
SeibaaHomuJan 17, 2013 6:21 AM
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SquadmemberRitsu said: srsly guise? wat da fuk happnd? the difference between now and then is that now 90% of new anime looks like clannad so much beta in this thread its unbelievable |
jkun said: the difference between now and then is that now 90% of new anime looks like clannad so much beta in this thread its unbelievable The point is showing the sacred power of cherry picking, but oh well. |
jal90 said: The point is showing the sacred power of cherry picking. This. I think the art quality has gone up. Since when is it not evident within a half second that an anime was made in the '90s? |
katsucats said: eminagnam said: But there's generic art in every decade. I don't have numbers or anything, since it is pretty much infeasible for a single person to do a study across any large amount of anime, but while subject matter have noticeably shifted in the past 10-15 years, I have not noticed the same for character design and art consistency. Back then there were Oh My Goddess and Tenchi Muyo's that are today's Sword Art Online. For any standout example that you could point to in any particular time period, there are probably 3 mediocre ones that were forgotten in the annuls of time.Yeah, that's a pity. In the past, creators each had different character design. But today not only character design but storylines are similar to one another in most cases. Thus confusing and unmemorable. For example, 12 Japanese TV anime (new series) were aired in 1970 (not 70s but just one year of 1970). None of them looked alike in terms of character/facial design, and most of them looked very different from one another. 26 new series were aired in 1980. None of them looked alike in terms of character/facial design, and most of them looked very different from one another. 28 new series were aired in 1990. None of them looked alike in terms of character/facial design, and most of them looked very different from one another. |
| The main reason everything looks the same today is due to artists using their feet instead of their hands. |
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jkun said: the difference between now and then is that now 90% of new anime looks like clannad so much beta in this thread its unbelievable IF ONLY 90% OF NEW ANIME ACTUALLY LOOK AS GOOD AS CLANNAD! |
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Carnival_Corpse said: Don't worry, I won't go down that road. I just want to make sure that jkun knows that "manliness", or "manhood", or whatever, isn't a real thing. It's just a convenient little fantasy. Child's play, even. Post-Josh said: this is turning into a gender stereotype discussionjkun said: I hope you don't honestly believe this.what do you mean "uber macho" ? you mean ... men? males are not supposed to look like they wear makeup and have tears in their eyes when things get tough |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
DateYutaka said: AirStyles said: jkun said: the difference between now and then is that now 90% of new anime looks like clannad so much beta in this thread its unbelievable IF ONLY 90% OF NEW ANIME ACTUALLY LOOK AS GOOD AS CLANNAD! moe is not the way Who said anything about moe. I'm talking art quality. The background, lighting(ESPECIALLY!), petals, snows etc in Clannad are amazing. EDIT: again... IF ONLY 90% OF NEW ANIME ACTUALLY LOOK AS GOOD AS CLANNAD! |
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jkun said: LOLmen from the 90's  men from the 00's onwards  please Japan, make more MEN and stop creating GIRLY characters that are wimps... The first guy looks like a complete fag. Like he belongs at some sort of pride event. And they aren't men. They are teenagers. I don't know what delusion you may be under, but teenagers in Japan, for the most part, look like this: And regardless, Shu is in no way a wimpy girly character. |
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Red_Keys said: LOL The first guy looks like a complete fag. Like he belongs at some sort of pride event. And they aren't men. They are teenagers. I don't know what delusion you may be under, but teenagers in Japan, for the most part, look like this: And regardless, Shu is in no way a wimpy girly character. No offense, but calling out a brutish support character (from a fairly popular shonen no less) as a "complete fag" doesn't exactly help your case, especially when your point of comparison is Shu who was SPECIFICALLY written as a socially-awkward protagonist (heck the writers even likened him after Shinji Ikari). |
ronriJan 17, 2013 8:40 AM
ronri said: I haven't seen the show. I'm sure the actual character is in no way an actual fag. But we are going off of visuals here, as that is this thread's topic. And he looks like a flaming homo.No offense, but calling out a brutish support character (from a fairly popular shonen no less) as a "complete fag" doesn't exactly help your case, especially in comparison to Shu who was SPECIFICALLY written as a socially-awkward protagonist. My point was that Shu looks like the type of person he was designed after: a normal teenager. |
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ronri said: Red_Keys said: LOL The first guy looks like a complete fag. Like he belongs at some sort of pride event. And they aren't men. They are teenagers. I don't know what delusion you may be under, but teenagers in Japan, for the most part, look like this: And regardless, Shu is in no way a wimpy girly character. No offense, but calling out a brutish support character (from a fairly popular shonen no less) as a "complete fag" doesn't exactly help your case, especially in comparison to Shu who was SPECIFICALLY written as a socially-awkward protagonist. as i said b4 the ideals on what make a man a man or very different in east and west |
| "If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine" When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one For the Union makes us strong |
| Haha. The guy with orange hair looks like a teenage Canadian baseball player. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
DateYutaka said: AirStyles said: DateYutaka said: AirStyles said: jkun said: the difference between now and then is that now 90% of new anime looks like clannad so much beta in this thread its unbelievable IF ONLY 90% OF NEW ANIME ACTUALLY LOOK AS GOOD AS CLANNAD! moe is not the way Who said anything about moe. I'm talking art quality. The background, lighting(ESPECIALLY!), petals, snows etc in Clannad are amazing. hmm Not every studio has KyoAni's workforce and organization. Movies are still going to look better than TV series though. |
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DateYutaka said: as i said b4 the ideals on what make a man a man or very different in east and west Okay I'm not gonna lie, I don't know how that has anything to do with what I just said. |
DateYutaka said: ronri said: DateYutaka said: as i said b4 the ideals on what make a man a man or very different in east and west Okay I'm not gonna lie, I don't know how that has anything to do with what I just said. it was me agreeing with you Ok thanks for clearing that up. |
| Today's art looks immensely better. In all of the examples you provided, the girls all look like they have the Downs. I'm down for hand drawn classic style, I can enjoy it. But I would never say it looks better, and the girls looked funky as hell back then. |
DateYutaka said: right you not biased with the avaer you have being moe But...they never said they weren't biased. I think everyone's at least a little biased when it comes to art preferences. Personally, I prefer newer art styles. I've noticed a lot of the shows I really enjoy tend to be rich with colour, and older shows usually have less of that because of technological restrictions. I also dislike the pointiness of chins and such that older style tends to have. I fully admit to being biased though, particularly because I started watching anime when I was a bit older. |
| It is literally impossible to be unbiased in this matter. Art style is a personal preference. There are no "facts" when it comes to liking a certain style. It is 100% biased and subjective 100% of the time. |
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| If anything I don't think its just the style that is changing the most. When comparing older anime to modern ones, the new ones seem curvier and squishier, and I mean that in a non-hentai, non-ecchi way. By that I mean, they simply have more texture and giving them a more three dimensional feel, not a more life-like feel, but simply more three dimensional. The quality of the medium itself is always getting better. The only thing that is actually changing for better or worse is the art style itself. For me, its not really a bad thing. Its just different. |
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Red_Keys said: It is 100% biased and subjective 100% of the time. And what makes you think DateYutaka will ever listen to that? A lot have tried, nobody's succeeded. I'd suggest you give up or ignore him. As a wise man once said, "Best not to argue with an *****". Note: the ***** isn't a rude word, I just didn't word it in because that would be flaming a user and would get me in trouble. But you get the point I was trying to make, don't you? |
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| I find that in some more recent anime, Toradora and SAO are two that come to mind, the art has this weird sort of shininess that bugs me. It's not that bad, but I don't like it. Red_Keys said: It is literally impossible to be unbiased in this matter. Art style is a personal preference. There are no "facts" when it comes to liking a certain style. It is 100% biased and subjective 100% of the time. This is very true. |
| Nope, there has always been ugly shit and generally art is more a matter of taste than of quality. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Mostly the art styles are just changing, but I do personally prefer the older art styles over the newer ones. As far as the characters go, the older style looks more detailed and a bit more realistic than the newer one does. The newer style does look "prettier" and I'll admit the landscapes have seen improvement, but the characters look less detailed and their designs seem to lack personality. |
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skudoops said: Rampant use of CG is annoying, but at times when it's done correctly, the CG + hand drawn stuff can blend in amazingly like GITS 2. GITS 2 is not the example I'd use. Most of the CGI in it sticks out like a sore thumb. |
Red_Keys said: It is literally impossible to be unbiased in this matter. Art style is a personal preference. There are no "facts" when it comes to liking a certain style. It is 100% biased and subjective 100% of the time. Pretty much this. Same goes for sub vs dub arguments... It's all personal preference yet.... People still treat it as if god told them that "No this is better." They then use it to reflect on how much "Better than you" they are for liking said style. It's astonishing at the levels of stupidity people can stoop honestly. That being said old art generally doesn't appeal to me..... The oldest art style I've ever watched is probably around Tenchi Muyo, and I did like that one so I wouldn't mind watching it again.... Oh wait... Also Gundam Wing, At least I think it's Gundam Wing.....The one with commander Zechs or w/e. I'll watch older art style if I have already finished it but.... If I haven't finished something with older art by now, chances are I'm not going to watch it. Yeah... I'm missing out but...There are plenty of animes that come out each year for me to watch, so unless something is mindblowingly good... I wont really feel the need to watch it. |
rederoin said: Carnival_Corpse said: nekovision said: Yes. I definitely agree artworks of anime have gone down to such generic cheesy mess after 2000. I thinks use of computer for the animation is the main problem. Animator nowaday just copy and paste everything without any real drawing talents. I also don't get why modern Japanese prefer "effeminate" looking male characters. Anyway: I prefer the "bad-ass" looking old style.  Over this "pussy" looking modern style. Here's my two cent  I might be wrong (and I stand corrected if I am) but aren't those two images from totally different genres of anime ?? + the top one seems like a cover image while the second is a screenshot... covers art is always more detailed First one is from a battle-shonen, 2nd one is from a action/ecchi show. Or better put, its cherry picking. Cherry picking sure is fun. Seriously. Fate/Zero and Type Moon's artworks in general is what you call a "typical generic boring modern anime art with over-used CG". Originated from generic visual novels. Yes. I'm not Type Moon fan, so this is my personal opinion. Watch series like Fist of North Star. DBZ and Slam Dunk You'll see what's truly bad-ass looking guys. And Sailor Moon's style was consider a stand out at that time. And I prefer it over the average moe looking modern digitally coloured anime. |
| No, it has improved a lot and there are different kinds of art however, it's true that now many characters look alike |
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