Fate/Zero Episode 13 Discussion

Z-flame said:
I kinda feel like almost nothing happened during all these 13 episodes. I was actually expecting for some kind of epic battle in this episode, but alas it was a cliffhanger.

This episode 2/5
Overall 5/10

I really hope it gets better in fate zero 2

Z-flame said:

So you're saying I'm not free to voice my opinion like the majority of people here just because I have those two shows as my favorites, that's very mature of you. :/

Slicer22 said:


2 of your top 5 anime is the second season of Shana and Astarotte no Omocha! Could you not shit all over the internet with your comments please.

Thess said:
What I disliked aside of the goddamn DEEN QUALITY sometimes.

Honestly, they should have, IMO:

1) Made the Mad Feast of Kings longer as they should have (stopping with Assassin's arrival).
2) Finish it in episode 12 season finale with Kirei/Gil full convo (after Kiritsugu's musings), cliffhanger of Kirei getting his command seals back.

Leave Caster, the whole Saber/Iri exchange, etc to the next cour.

iCab said:
BIGGEST FUCKING CLIFFHANGER EVER.


I'm so hyped for the continuation.
This show rules.

asgardian said:
.For a filler scene, theirs were so excruciating to watch...

sallym613 said:
As for music, I think this is probably one of the weakest points of this show. Not saying that Yuki Kajiura's music is awful, but there is only one or two memorable soundtracks out of all the ones there. So overall, the music is good, but not epic or memorable or impressive as it could have been. Of course, you guys may disagree with this, but I'm just simply stating how I feel.

Karhu said:


Fate/Zero is shonen which is made to look somewhat like seinen because of the dialog and timeslot. It's still more shonen, think otherwise if you like. Enough wasted time here already. Bye~

SephiriAzure said:
I don't know when, but from this episode I realized how much I love Waver and Rider as a duo, that if they were to die in the second season...I will most certainly cry.

zeroyuki92 said:
What's with the pointless discussion of Seinen and Shounen, guys?Ah well, glad it has been stopped...

And rating this anime is quite problematic. I actually should put this part 8 if I count only enjoyment alone, but for me that's not the fair score since this part is the "supporting" materials for the second part...Or the second part won't be any epic at all.

That would be the same if I rate the first part of...say, Steins;Gate alone. In the end I rated it 10 since I know the first part is the builder of the second part.

So, I give this 9. According to general consensus of "F/Z always progress to be better from the beginning to the very end", I am certain that I will give the second part 10. Except if ufotable screws something really hard, which is most likely wont happened.

Thess said:


I'm a fanGIRL. If you want to do ad hominem, please get it right or STFU.

Rider doesn't want to eliminate them, have you paid attention? His whole character was built in conquest and have the defeated parties JOIN him (and he grows in power when they do because they join his NP!) for the pursuit of his dreams. If they had adapted the dream properly this episode (sadly, it was chopped), you've had seen him doing this in the past and pulling it off successfully. He’s the only Servant with a "shounen" attitude and that's supposed to be a flaw (although it's endearing, I admit). He's a brilliant strategist (he's been the one who simply ended the episode 5 conflict because he wanted), but his good natured personality clashes with the mood. The only reason why he took down Assassin was because (again was adapted poorly in this sense) they were endangering Waver's life (and he was slightly drunk and irate).

Assassin was forced to sacrifice themselves as pigs to the slaughter.
Lancer and Saber are being chivalrous because both are knights, they have a strong code to follow (they are Lawful in alignment guys). They have no qualms to kill each other as long it's fair. This creates conflict with their Masters. Kiritsugu in particular.
Berserker is... Berserker. He's without sanity. That's the point.
Gilgamesh couldn't give a damn about the Holy Grail War until he met Kirei and had the feast of kings with Rider and Saber. And what does he do? He has Kotomine find out more about the Masters with his Assassin scouts. He's shrew when he wants to be.
Caster was keeping his low profile as he built his lair (which is the specialty of the Casters) before he lost it with Arthuria's resemblance to Jeanne. He's also insane.

It's not the Servants who plot, outside of Rider and Caster (and occasionally Gilgamesh), it's the *Masters* who do that.

sallym613 said:

-As for music, I think this is probably one of the weakest points of this show. Not saying that Yuki Kajiura's music is awful, but there is only one or two memorable soundtracks out of all the ones there. So overall, the music is good, but not epic or memorable or impressive as it could have been. Of course, you guys may disagree with this, but I'm just simply stating how I feel.

Alrick said:
So what you do is giving me heroic heroic spirits' reasons to behave as they do. How on Earth do that make the tactic in this said title good or even decent?
I do see, this show is good at excusing stupid acts, so I don't really doubt its internal logic.

However battles between servants have never left the shounen level (so far atleast, maybe next season..)
And it has to do with the fact that all of them (not only Iskander as you claim) are in fact shounen-like characters unlike masters. Can count out only Berserker (as he is insane, and even more was acting only once in a while), and probably Assassin, who have never amounted to anything.

neurogal91 said:

Well maybe you can explain to us what acts was stupid and why? Thess explains their behaviour because if they had done something stupid then it is due to their behaviour, but if that's not the answer you're seeking for then you should explain further.

And what's wrong with shounen anyway? Since when shounen is bad? More precisely, if there even such thing as a shounen fight or a seinen fight?

Alrick said:
For example the moment when Saber got herself surrounded by the Caster minions and Lancer jumped in to help here all of a sudden. Instead of much more logical attack on the Caster (who definitely haven't noticed his arrival) that would most likely result in elimination of the latter.

That what i account for a "strange" tactical decisions.

MasterSpark11 said:

Some other scenes bothered me too, but none of them really affected my enjoyment too much though.

sallym613 said:
-As for music, I think this is probably one of the weakest points of this show. Not saying that Yuki Kajiura's music is awful, but there is only one or two memorable soundtracks out of all the ones there. So overall, the music is good, but not epic or memorable or impressive as it could have been. Of course, you guys may disagree with this, but I'm just simply stating how I feel.

MasterSpark11 said:

There is also the thing about Lancer striking Caster's book only, while he could have easily stricken Caster himself too, killing him easily and early, earning his master a command seal.

Some other scenes bothered me too, but none of them really affected my enjoyment too much though.

MasterSpark11 said:

There is also the thing about Lancer striking Caster's book only, while he could have easily stricken Caster himself too, killing him easily and early, earning his master a command seal.

Some other scenes bothered me too, but none of them really affected my enjoyment too much though.

Alrick said:
What exactly do i find "strange" (lets use this word, not to be too critical):
For example the moment when Saber got herself surrounded by the Caster minions and Lancer jumped in to help here all of a sudden. Instead of much more logical attack on the Caster (who definitely haven't noticed his arrival) that would most likely result in elimination of the latter.

That what i account for a "strange" tactical decisions.As well as giving up the Assassin when the "war" is far from over etc.

Miya_F_Exia said:


I agree AND disagree. I wouldn't say there are only one or two memorable tracks for the time being. There are a few tracks that I'm really looking forward to. But I disliked the use itself of many of them. Songs that should have been used only once to give a distinct meaning to one scene began to be spammed throughout the first part of the series. Not only that but Kajiura needs to develop other types of songs for conversations and things like that. Always that cello kind of song, or SFX. Give me a break Kajiura, you've been using that since forever, can't you develop other kinds of songs?

For me, it was still better than Madoka's OST though. At least I don't have to listen to a bland song for almost 12 episodes.

dankickyou said:
Just because you say something doesn't mean its true,

neurogal91 said:

Hmm, doesn't all the Servants have the ability to sense other nearby Servants' presences? That's why Assassin's special ability is that they can conceal their presence completely. So Caster can easily notice Lance when he arrived and make the appropriate protection. Or Lancer wants to save Saber first.

For the Assassin, well at least Tokiomi learns about Ionion Hetaroi first hand then being caught surprise in a fight. In the novel he did expressed regret for sacrificing the Assassins too early but thought it was worth it. But then this could also considered a mistake on Tokiomi's part on too fearful of Rider instead of other Servants.

Urufuzu_rein said:
Not all the tracks can be memorable and/or impressing. Some her other soundtracks tried to fit in a copious amount of vocal tracks that were indeed memorable but ended up as not being fitting. I'm personally happy I don't hear chants every 5 seconds. It's probably her best soundtrack in a while, in that respect. The use of music is also pretty impressive, considering that some of her other works didn't receive good music placement in the actual anime.

Miya_F_Exia said:
I agree AND disagree. I wouldn't say there are only one or two memorable tracks for the time being. There are a few tracks that I'm really looking forward to. But I disliked the use itself of many of them. Songs that should have been used only once to give a distinct meaning to one scene began to be spammed throughout the first part of the series. Not only that but Kajiura needs to develop other types of songs for conversations and things like that. Always that cello kind of song, or SFX. Give me a break Kajiura, you've been using that since forever, can't you develop other kinds of songs?

For me, it was still better than Madoka's OST though. At least I don't have to listen to a bland song for almost 12 episodes.

Alrick said:


1. Yeah they do, I thought they can just feel presence, not who is here and how numerous they are. May be wrong thou.
Also minions have not even tried to stop Lance from uniting with Saber, that's why I have concluded that Caster did not see Lancer coming.
Again may be wrong if Caster didn't mind things going that way.

However I still think that even if it wouldn't result in surprise-attack, going for unguarded commander is smarter move compared to jumping into the ring of his minions.

2. Maybe that scene was just badly adapted (we are talking specifically about the anime version now am i right?), but it looked like Assassins have just came there to be slaughtered. They haven't even tried to go for the masters. And what bugs me the most... Well, ok maybe figuring out Riders NP was worthy accomplishment, but how on Earth did Takoumi know that Rider will use it?

I mean if it was not AoE, but a Single target there would be no point using it against several weaklings...

Again I may have missed smth here.


There are lots of other questions. Like why Gilgamesh have killed the very first Assassin using the Gates if Takoumi values secrecy and information that much and he knew that everyone will be watching. It is possible that he couldn't convince him to do it the other way.
But all in all those tiny strange decisions spoil the story a bit for me.

Miya_F_Exia said:

And while I kind of agree that scenes that involve talking don't necessarily request for epic songs, I don't like how Kajiura seems to recycle these songs over and over again. And I mean in multiple works, like KnK, PH, Madoka and now F/Z.