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Poll: Fate/Zero Episode 12 Discussion


#1
Dec 17, 2011 7:57 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
Well that clears up that Assassin is already dead, though that should have been obvious last episode.

Kiritsugu and his burgers :D
And contemplating on all the Masters. Additional fact: Kiritsugu hasn't slept for almost 70 hours since the start of the war. He took a 2 hour break here through self-hypnosis, though it wasn't shown.

The Emiya household!! Kiritsugu is such a romantic for remembering to buy a Japanese house for Iri. Really rundown though.
And the old storehouse that Shirou uses, or will use. Nice.

Kirei and Gil talk is the part where I really took interest in Gill.
He can really see through Kirei and give out speeches that can really change your views. And this is where Kirei begins to question himself even more.
But why did the Command Seals appear in the right hand again? I thought it was in the left forearm. Oh well, at least it shows that Kirei is still not out of the game and he's out to fight.

And I thought they forgot about Caster and Ryuunosuke's part that was suppose to be in here but good that it's in next episode according to preview.
Now for the final episode. The wait for the next season is going to be excruciating.
Modified by belatkuro, Dec 17, 2011 8:02 AM
 
#2
Dec 17, 2011 8:01 AM

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The episode itself was EPIC in speech and getting things together that shall come soon enough. I did find Kirei in the following,

rather in freaked out/paranoid manner. Strangely enough I did not see him like that. More later.

BTW GIFs in the club:
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=377081
among them some Irisviel and Kiritsugu
belatkuro said:
But why did the Command Seals appear in the right hand again? I thought it was in the left forearm. Oh well, at least it shows that Kirei is still not out of the game.
I am assuming that either Archer is up to something or it's something else that most likely may surprise me but usually if assassin is really dead than I don't see any other explanation than Archer up to something.

PS: Nice start in this series threads buddy ;)
Modified by Yumekichi11, Dec 18, 2011 2:06 AM

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#3
Dec 17, 2011 8:07 AM
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Modified by Kigen, Dec 17, 2011 10:16 AM
 
#4
Dec 17, 2011 8:14 AM

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I want Kirei's chessboard.

I liked the conversation between Gil and Kirei but in the end there was nothing special if you have read the novel before.
 
#5
Dec 17, 2011 8:18 AM
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While quite uneventful this episode was very interesting nonetheless.
I really like how the equality of all masters is reinforced once again hence the small number of defeated servants. Hell, if Kirei would have cared about the grail to begin with Assassin probably would have been still alive.

I guess the spells Irisviel casted in the storehouse are the reason why Saber got summoned by Shiro unintentionally one decade later.

Overall, this episode mainly served to give the viewers more information concerning the rules of the holy grail war but it also fleshed out Kirei's character. I think it is also the first time when Kirei is seen losing his composure. Archer certainly did a nice job in analyzing Kirei's true nature which even Kirei himself wasn't fully aware of. Everything is set up for Kirei's betrayal of his mentor now...

On another note I wonder what Kirei sees in Kariya as Archer pointed out since he doesn't seem to pose such a great threat. Though, it would be convenient to have him as the last opponent to face as one could just wait until Kariya is weakened to such a extent that he isn't able to control Berserker anymore and would be an easy prey, I guess.

Looks like we get to see Lancer and Caster next episode. I wonder if one of them will bite the dust seeing that it will be the last episode before the break .
Modified by Eudaimonia, Dec 17, 2011 8:47 AM
 
#6
Dec 17, 2011 9:09 AM

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So Kiritsugu is the one who was chosen to be the high chance to get the "seihai"?
I Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!!
 
#7
Dec 17, 2011 9:12 AM

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That episode felt shorter than I thought. Or maybe it was just me being completely engrossed by the conversation between Kirei and Gilgamesh.

Speaking of which, I can't believe it took me 12 episodes to actually make me start caring about Kirei. I thought he was so bland beforehand. What makes him even more fascinating is that he is so unsure of himself that he lets himself become swayed by the words of others. That whole thing about him and his "path of faith"? Total self denial.

One of the great things about this show is that the characters are playing dirty in every sense of the word. Now I'm pumped for next week's episode.
 
#8
Dec 17, 2011 9:20 AM

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Lestrade said:

On another note I wonder what Kirei sees in Kariya as Archer pointed out since he doesn't seem to pose such a great threat. Though, it would be convenient to have him as the last opponent to face as one could just wait until Kariya is weakened to such a extent that he isn't able to control Berserker anymore and would be an easy prey, I guess.

It's because of Kariya's current situation, about his body, his Servant and his relation to the Tohsakas, that Kirei was interested unconciously and investigated him. They cut Kirei's report short to only the Einzberns part but his report about Kariya was detailed, up until to his mission to save Sakura.
As Archer said, these things are hard to notice and are signs of one seeking entertainment and pleasure.
 
#9
Dec 17, 2011 9:20 AM

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I thought we had 2 episodes left but I counted wrong :(
Never thought 12 episodes can pass that fast!

And I finally know how Shirou could summon Saber 10 years later without drawing the circle by himself..
 
Dec 17, 2011 9:28 AM
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belatkuro said:
Lestrade said:

On another note I wonder what Kirei sees in Kariya as Archer pointed out since he doesn't seem to pose such a great threat. Though, it would be convenient to have him as the last opponent to face as one could just wait until Kariya is weakened to such a extent that he isn't able to control Berserker anymore and would be an easy prey, I guess.

It's because of Kariya's current situation, about his body, his Servant and his relation to the Tohsakas, that Kirei was interested unconciously and investigated him. They cut Kirei's report short to only the Einzberns part but his report about Kariya was detailed, up until to his mission to save Sakura.
As Archer said, these things are hard to notice and are signs of one seeking entertainment and pleasure.


Thanks for clearing this up. I guess I should have payed more attention in this regard.
 
Dec 17, 2011 9:34 AM

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Shouldn't we add a spoiler tag to that chessboard?

Now pleasure begins to occupy Kirei's empty mind...perhaps that's why new command mantra appears so quickly.
 
Dec 17, 2011 9:51 AM

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Gilgamesh loves starting trouble and messing with Kirei's morals. I really hope we get some of his inner dialogues in the next season. His final one at the end is great and shows what a twisted character he truly is.
Ok™
 
Dec 17, 2011 9:55 AM

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I think Gilgamesh bumped up the coolness meter with that little speech he gave Kirei near the end.
 
Dec 17, 2011 10:32 AM

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Awesome episode, as always.
 
Dec 17, 2011 10:55 AM

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great episode, no fighting, but giglamesh's talk with kirei was really interesting.
I wonder what Kirei is gonna next....
Next ep should be CRAZY!!! XD
 
Dec 17, 2011 10:59 AM
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Kirei and Archer's talk was nice, I've enjoyed it... It will get the plot moving some more, I guess...
 
Dec 17, 2011 11:02 AM

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Awesome chess board, but it only has seven squares across. What are the rules???

Rider: Ionioi Hetairoi!

INSTA-WIN!!! XD
 
Dec 17, 2011 11:22 AM

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GAWD! I had to go through Kirei and Gilgamesh's dialogues thrice over to get what they were implying! I mean, I got the drift, but I was losing track of who's who and what's what and what was going where. LOL!

But damn! Gilgamesh TOTALLY MESSES UP YOUR HEAD!!! MAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!! What a sadist really!! :)))))) He's like Kirei's villan psychiatrist. :)))))

It was so SO very clever of Archer to imply that Kirei, if he is the masochist he really is (haha!!), then he should remove Kariya and take over Berserker.... But Archer's interest in Kirei is so intense that he wants him for himself... (S&M pair? :)))))) gosh!) It was smooth of him to point to him that no matter who's master Kirei now becomes, Archer knows he's the strongest of them all.. (ego much?) So... Kirei's all set to betray Tohsaka? Wow.

I LOVED the compositions in this episode! Especially how symbolic each frame was to the dialogues spoken between Kirei and Archer! How Archer was using the Grail Chess Board to show us, in visuals, what he was implying. =D

Showing Saber and Irisviel was almost like a breather for the heavy dialogue exchange between the other two. Iri is so weak...!

But WOW... I love Gilgamesh... :))) He's just so intense!
CaNNOT believe next is the last ep for this season! AAGH!!!
Well, atleast I'll be following the other shows while this pops up again. :) Yay!!
_____ _ _ ______


Within pain, there is desire.

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Dec 17, 2011 11:26 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
belatkuro said:
I am assuming that either Archer is up to something or it's something else that most likely may surprise me but usually if assassin is really dead than I don't see any other explanation than Archer up to something.


Archer says this (not his exact words but exact in meaning): "There are no servants available for you to take so, you must STEAL one."
He then proceeds to pick up a piece from the board.

The lowly maggot under the trash.
 
Dec 17, 2011 11:27 AM

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You would think they would give us a build up episode before the last of the season.
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Dec 17, 2011 11:34 AM
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Seeing that storage room gave me the chills. It was a nice touch to show the room from that one angle from the F/SN Saber summoning. Although, I was kinda annoyed by the lighting on Iri and Saber, but I guess it was to make the conversation look slightly more dramatic. Probably the same for why Kirei couldn't stand still. But eh, I still enjoyed the episode.

Best part of the episode was probably Kirei and Gilgamesh. The conversation also reminded me of how much Gilgamesh likes to screw with people. Bit of a problem right here though, the part where Kirei actually talks about his observations of the Masters was cut. Wasn't that important, but that sudden jump to Gil's conclusion was awkward. Anyways, I hope next week's episode has like three times the normal budget or something. It's probably gonna get wild.
Modified by Shocked, Dec 17, 2011 11:46 AM
 
Dec 17, 2011 12:14 PM

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Wow, dialogue from start to finish. While not entirely unimportant, probably the least interesting episode so far. And it looks like Assassin is really dead.

Thanks, person who gave me this on another site a long time ago, lol.
 
Dec 17, 2011 12:27 PM

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episode was kinda boring, the chats are fine and all especially from the episode before this, but the giglaxkotomine and saberxiris chats were blah-ish
 
Dec 17, 2011 12:47 PM

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Good episode,Gilga you badass.

Seeing the Emiya house again was nice,Iris is getting weaker that makes me sad,also the storehouse mmmmmm.

Kirei conversation with Gilga was awesome,Gilga lines were amazing and i really enjoy he messing with him and making him question his beliefs.

Next episode the last one and it looks like we get more Caster,its going to be horrible to wait 3 months for next season!

Btw Gilga eye is watching you!
Modified by raxius1230, Dec 17, 2011 6:40 PM
 
Dec 17, 2011 12:54 PM

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Synoptic said:
Archer says this (not his exact words but exact in meaning): "There are no servants available for you to take so, you must STEAL one."
He then proceeds to pick up a piece from the board.



Not only that. See which Master's piece he had knocked down the board?

Gilgamesh's so shameless with his unsubtle self-promotion.
 
Dec 17, 2011 12:59 PM

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Decent episode 4/5. A bit too much dialogue for me. I guess Kirei will somehow claim Archer for his own after Tokiomi dies in battle.
 
Dec 17, 2011 12:59 PM

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I hope 13th ep contains excellent fight scenes...
Make Xmas Eve Action Packed!
"Why do I always realize it... when I've already lost it..." -Guts, Berserk
"Some things are beautiful because they cannot be obtained." -Gilgamesh, Fate/stay night
"We are constantly living in a peaceful world that somebody else won for us. Even if it were only a day of peace, I will be grateful for its value." - Minashiro Tsubaki, FAFNER
"Screw you, future me!" -Makise Kurisu, Steins;Gate
"We used to show off by waging wars and whatnot." -Watashi, Jinrui wa Suitai Shimashita
"Call me Moses. I'm going to part the sea of students before your eyes." -Moses?, Valvrave
"Time is guilty." -Andō & Tomoyo, INOU-Battle
 
Dec 17, 2011 1:00 PM

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gamerguy50 said:
episode was kinda boring, the chats are fine and all especially from the episode before this, but the giglaxkotomine and saberxiris chats were blah-ish

This.
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Dec 17, 2011 1:03 PM

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Meh.

Anyways, if someone can clear this up for me (FSN VN spoilers):
 
Dec 17, 2011 1:21 PM

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Nice touch to see the place where Shirou would eventually be living in during SN. After next week, it's going to be LONG wait for the second half of FZ.
 
Dec 17, 2011 1:21 PM

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MissileSoup said:
Anyways, if someone can clear this up for me (FSN VN spoilers):

 
Dec 17, 2011 1:36 PM

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Araya said:


 
Dec 17, 2011 1:40 PM
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Im so confused.

So assassin is dead but why seals appeared on Kirei? Should not another master to have his seals and servant? If so which died, did not I notice?
 
Dec 17, 2011 2:12 PM

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gilesandmolly said:
Im so confused.

So assassin is dead but why seals appeared on Kirei? Should not another master to have his seals and servant? If so which died, did not I notice?

Check what Gilgamesh said to Kirei again.


The Holy Grail believes that Kirei is still worthy to get it, that's why the Command Seals appeared again. Even though he lacks a servant, he can get one by killing a master or getting a servant without a master.
 
Dec 17, 2011 2:48 PM
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There was no action in this episode, but it was awesome nonetheless!!
 
Dec 17, 2011 4:04 PM

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I really don't understand these people who thinks that an episode without kicks and punches and magical powers isn't an episode at all. Dammit, this's annoying.

Anyway, the Gil x Kirei dialogue was so intense! I was immersed in it, felt like 5min only... F/Z really is awesome in make 20min seems like 10.
Also, I had shivers at the house part. I was all like, "Wait a min- OH MY GOD! THE HOUSE!". God, the implications... ;-; It really makes you see that no matter how much you don't want this, these people are still going to die... ;-;

I can't wait for the next week! The finalle will be great, I feel it!
If I die and I find that I had a soul inside,
Promise me you'll take it up to its final ride...
 
Dec 17, 2011 4:38 PM
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WhiteFrenzy said:
I really don't understand these people who thinks that an episode without kicks and punches and magical powers isn't an episode at all. Dammit, this's annoying.

Anyway, the Gil x Kirei dialogue was so intense! I was immersed in it, felt like 5min only... F/Z really is awesome in make 20min seems like 10.
Also, I had shivers at the house part. I was all like, "Wait a min- OH MY GOD! THE HOUSE!". God, the implications... ;-; It really makes you see that no matter how much you don't want this, these people are still going to die... ;-;

I can't wait for the next week! The finalle will be great, I feel it!


Its MAL,what did you expect? They are probably the narutard fanbase who expect a fight scene every week but get a 'filler' or 'plot' episode. Well typemoon will not carter to you lot,sorry.
 
Dec 17, 2011 5:05 PM

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Great episode, with excellent foreshadowing. It's nice to see the animation is back to its usual level, but it could've used more music during the SaberxIri scenes. On another note, I'm wondering how the next episode will be done, since it seems that they put a lot of work into insuring that the first season will finish on a cliff hanger; part of me is hoping for a one hour finale, but then part of me realizes that this probably isn't realistic, for multiple reasons.

WhiteFrenzy said:
I really don't understand these people who thinks that an episode without kicks and punches and magical powers isn't an episode at all. Dammit, this's annoying.

Two Theories on this:

1) Fate Zero is high profile enough to attract anime noobs, whose only previous viewing experience amounts to shonen fighters such as Naruto and Bleach, so they automatically expect that any other anime that they watch is going to be similar to Naruto and Bleach. Such people would most likely also complain about anime such as Crest of the Stars or Serial Experiment Lain, but probably don't know about them since they're more obscure.

2) Most people who watch anime primarily for the fighting know well enough to stay away from shows such as Clannad or Mushishi. No one goes into an episode of Clannad expecting Nagisa to whip out her new jutsu, though Fate Zero has enough of an emphasis on action to fool the previously mentioned people into thinking that it's going to be similar to Bleach. "Main character has a sword? LOL bankai!" The people raving about Haruhi and Kino's Journey are from a completely different group than those complaining about the lack of action in each episode of Fate Zero.
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Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan!
 
Dec 17, 2011 5:06 PM

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Another dialogue filled episode. Mmm... Wonder how they're gonna end the first part of Fate Zero now...
 
Dec 17, 2011 5:16 PM

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A few things about this show.

1. I lowered initial rating I gave to a show from 9 to 8 simply because it's not really going to end in the next episode most likely. It's not going to be conclusive ending, even to this 13 episodes, nothing will really end, everything will actually just start, hence lowering the score even though I like the show so far.

2. I hated Gil in FSN, I really did. (VN only, I didn't watch anime after hearing all the bad things about it). I thought he's overpowered, annoying and simply unlikable. And than came FZ, and I love the guy. He's one of the most(if not the most) interesting guys in the show. His dialogues are excellent, his attitude is cocky but still he takes interest in others, whereas in FSN he was more of a "I don't care about anyone, I'll just kill you all". I am stunned by how different he is in those 2 shows (that is, show and VN).

3. As for this episode...well, pretty bland and uninteresting for most part, except for the last few minutes and that conversation between Gil and Kirei (best team-up in this show, hands down) which were, yet again, shining example of how to make a scene made entirely out of dialogue both interesting and educative of story.


I really hope they do some fighting in the next episode, but I really doubt that, I expect them to end on a "fighting cliffhanger", preparing season 2 which will probably be filled with great fights after whole 1st season (more or less) was spent on introducing characters, their backgrounds and their motivations. And I loved that approach.

LunarMoon said:
Such people would most likely also complain about anime such as Crest of the Stars or Serial Experiment Lain, but probably don't know about them since they're more obscure.


Unrelated to this topic and show, is this 2nd mentioned show any similar to CofS(I don't mean as space related, but more as relationship/events/other stuff, if you understand :) )? If yes, I'm rushing to see it since Seikai no Senki 2 is my favorite show :)
Yes, I read the description, but descriptions are vague. Thanks, and sorry for offtopic.
Modified by nina4life, Dec 17, 2011 5:24 PM
 
Dec 17, 2011 5:38 PM

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Yumekichi11 said:
I am assuming that either Archer is up to something or it's something else that most likely may surprise me but usually if assassin is really dead than I don't see any other explanation than Archer up to something.


He made it really obvious from the first chat on how dissatisfied he is with his current master and how interested he is in Kirei. He implyied it from the first second he talked to him.

The talks between those two characters are what saves each one from their usual blandness and makes them interesting to me :)
 
Dec 17, 2011 6:56 PM

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What the usually the discussion threads for each episode would fill up with a BUNCH of posts. Seriously spooky that nothing is happening at the moment.
 
Dec 17, 2011 7:18 PM

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Another dialogue-filled episode.
So it's possible to retain your command seals back even if you have no servant.
Need to know more about this Holy Grail.
 
Dec 17, 2011 7:25 PM

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so next season, we expect mass killing spree of every characters right?
 
Dec 17, 2011 7:50 PM

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gamerguy50 said:
episode was kinda boring, the chats are fine and all especially from the episode before this, but the giglaxkotomine and saberxiris chats were blah-ish


Actually, this dialogue was necessary in my opinion for what's going to happen and is giving you a good idea of what Gilgamesh is plotting. All this dialogue and the Chessboard was a Huge hint for the viewer. All we knew for FSN and F/Z so far is that Gilgamesh is a bad ass with overwhelming ego. It's good to know more about this character.

Good episode!
Kiritsugu made a 'kind of' good recap of the situation of everyone. Good that he considered Lancer having a new Master so he's prepare to it. I love how they all consider Berserker's master isn't a threat but his servant seems good so it's best to leave him be for now. Berserker was Epic in his fight with Gilgamesh in some of the previous episode ! *-*

Speaking of Gilgamesh... This discussion was awesome and telling us so much ! The pieces on his chessboard were telling us so much, actually... First, he's saying he's got something else of interest what is he holding ? The Chess pieces of a dude with a Sword as Saber ! This is nothing new tho since he made that pretty clear in the previous episode and was also obsess with her in FSN. But after that...
Watching Gilgamesh tossing the 'Tokiomi' Chess Pieces like that was priceless. Like that, Shameless !

It's pretty much like... 'I won't have a master and you won't have a Servant, let's make a team !' Gilgamesh is awesome. He's not happy with his current master so why stay stuck with him !? Tokiomi is clueless. He doesn't think Kirei have any interest even 'secret' in the war and he's not aware that Gilgamesh is ready to toss him aside. Looks like he was ready to make a move in the beginning of the show tho. I can't wait to see how this turn out.

Gilgamesh is being one of the most interesting character with Kirei.
Already knew Tokiomi was going to die (Watching FSN tells you this much lol) but I'm starting to wonder how he is going to die... and it's probably going to happen soon at this rate. I'm also thinking that Kirei and Gil might have something to do with it. Can't wait until I have some answer ! =)

Really getting interesting ! Shame it's the end of the season already =(
 
Dec 17, 2011 8:32 PM

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Another top-tier episode. Gilgamesh and Kirei's conversations are definitely some of the most satisfying things I've ever seen.

I actually liked this episode better than last week's.

Sounds like the beginning of the Caster battle next week and that should end with an amazing cliffhanger.
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Dec 17, 2011 8:39 PM

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Thess said:
Synoptic said:
Archer says this (not his exact words but exact in meaning): "There are no servants available for you to take so, you must STEAL one."
He then proceeds to pick up a piece from the board.



Not only that. See which Master's piece he had knocked down the board?

Gilgamesh's so shameless with his unsubtle self-promotion.


Was wondering if anyone else noticed the piece knocked down
 
Dec 17, 2011 8:55 PM

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Merciless said:
Thess said:
Synoptic said:
Archer says this (not his exact words but exact in meaning): "There are no servants available for you to take so, you must STEAL one."
He then proceeds to pick up a piece from the board.



Not only that. See which Master's piece he had knocked down the board?

Gilgamesh's so shameless with his unsubtle self-promotion.


Was wondering if anyone else noticed the piece knocked down


Heheh, I did. Anyways, another good episode as always.
 
Dec 17, 2011 9:17 PM

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Great episode building up the season finale of Fate\Zero.

The long dialogue between Gilgamesh and Kotomine Kirei made the episode. Big things are going to happen between them, that's for sure. This is one of the reasons I just love Gilgamesh's badass attitude and intelligent. Totally messing up Kirei's head. Seeing the Command Spell appear on his hand again was indeed expected, cause Kirei isn't done entirely yet.

Loved the Store room scene in this episode, where a certain summoning forever enchanted the place from the beginning. I wonder if Irisviel will do a proper clean up to the house. Hmm.

Seeing the preview, some heavy stuff will going to happen that will wrap up the season with one giant cliffhanger. Then we will have to wait until the Spring Season starts for us to enjoy the 2nd season!
 
Dec 17, 2011 9:20 PM

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Good to see the future Emiya household - though it looks like it could use some cleaning.
The dialogues are tense and intriguing as always. Can't wait to see what the next, final episode of the season, will bring. Should be exciting.
 
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