If someone willingly doesn't take care of their health at all, do you think it is acceptable to shame them for it?
| Like, someone who drinks alcohol like a madman and ends up with cirrhosis, or someone who eats nothing but a ton of junk food all the time and ends up morbidly obese. Would you see shaming them as kicking someone who's already down since they could possibly be depressive? Or do you see it as just straight-up laziness to care about themselves and wouldn't care if people shamed them for their habits? |
| Why would you want to shame them in the first place... that's weird |
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| What even is "willing"? There is genetic, environmental and educational factors and past experience that influence people. Also shaming someone isn't going to change their behavior. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| It's awfully convenient for the junk food companies to blame the consumers for getting fat when there are plenty of articles detailing how these predatory companies deliberately engineer their food to be as addicting as possible. Or worse, the pharmaceutical industry deliberately introduced fentanyl into impoverished neighbourhoods and created the crisis, so it's awful convenient to use "personal choice" to avoid addressing the real drug dealer. |
| I'd "shame" them insofar as I would point out the fact that they have no right to complain about health issues they caused by themselves, and are unwilling to fix. Not incessantly, only when it came up. It would feel like encouraging their degradation if I simply ignored it or laughed awkwardly. Yes, these things are born of mental illness... which means that these people shouldn't be enabled. Ignorance is a kind of enabling, as is hidden embarrassment and the "you go girl!" mentality. Obviously, don't insult them... but if they're fat, then calling them fat is not an insult. Simply truth. If they see it as insult, it means they recognize the truth behind that label. If they truly didn't care then they wouldn't even flinch at it. Just my opinion and experience. |
My Vow is pure. |
| I say no because not everyone has enough money for a healthy balanced diet, and not everyone can get a decent job just by applying. The same thing is true about height/face. Some people are born uglier, dumber, weaker, shorter, ect. Most of who we become are determined by our genes, and not everyone has sugar daddy to pay for their car, housing, and give them a spot for a decent job. |
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| Shaming is a lazy type of feedback, and it doesn't motivate people, if you really want someone to take care of their health, you should provide incentives. |
No, this isn't my signature. |
| I mean, you shame me for eating right. 🥲 I think shaming is a you thing. |
"Have we not eaten while another starved? Will you punish us for that? Will you reward us for the virtue of starving while others ate? No man earns punishment, no man earns reward. Free your mind of the idea of deserving, the idea of earning, and you will begin to be able to think.” |
| It's not really my business what they choose to do with their bodies, so I just let them be. The only time when I would ever want to point out someone's bad health is if they were the closest people in my life, but even then, I wouldn't want to be pushy about it either since their level of health is still up to them to decide. I do also think that personal health is something that everyone at a certain age should at the very least be informed about to a good degree. |
| It could lead to a negative thought cycle if it's something they use to deal with stress. Shame a smoker for smoking -> stress them out -> they go smoke to cope If it becomes part of their internal thought process such that they are constantly demeaning themselves about smoking you can get a vicious cycle Smoker feels guilty about smoking -> gets stressed -> they go smoke to cope -> smoker feels guilty about smoking I think positive reinforcement, e.g. praising someone for doing their best to quit and being kind, may be more effective. And even if it isn't, at least you're making someone's day a little better rather than a little worse. |
| I don't shame people because that's like verbal harassment but sometimes I am weirded out by what some people do. I have my own problems, so I try to focus on improving myself instead of disturbing people. |
| MY NAME IS POTATO. NICE TO MEET YOU. |
| Why would you waste your breath on someone that's gonna die soon? |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart!  |
| I wouldn't shame them, I would simply pity them innerly. But there is need to point it out every single time, especially not when the topic has not been raised (yet) Related: "Before you heal someone, ask him if he's willing to give up the things that made him sick." - Hippocrates |
| Shame their habits not the person. I feel like it only works when the person is already on verge of doing it alone, or when you have a personal story that is well personal and concrete. With photos. I always conjure my dead grandpa that didn't see me enter school, with his photos for cigar, and a guy I know who lost his leg because of diabetes. It is always super effective. |
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| I think a person has the right to enjoy their sin and pay the price for it - but that's not for you or me to decide. I also believe they have the right to seek love and compassion from you, from me, no matter which abyss of despair they push themselves into. You can't save someone who refuses to see the doctor, only relieve the pain. At best, you take their hand, hold it tight, and together you leap off a cliff, hoping to meet in the next life. But oddly, in hell, everyone ends up alone. |
| Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
Reply to LoveYourSmile
I think a person has the right to enjoy their sin and pay the price for it - but that's not for you or me to decide. I also believe they have the right to seek love and compassion from you, from me, no matter which abyss of despair they push themselves into.
You can't save someone who refuses to see the doctor, only relieve the pain. At best, you take their hand, hold it tight, and together you leap off a cliff, hoping to meet in the next life. But oddly, in hell, everyone ends up alone.
You can't save someone who refuses to see the doctor, only relieve the pain. At best, you take their hand, hold it tight, and together you leap off a cliff, hoping to meet in the next life. But oddly, in hell, everyone ends up alone.
| @LoveYourSmile That's one of your better stances that I can absolutely agree with its core message, if we ignore the last two sentences. Well said! |
Reply to JustDefending
Why would you want to shame them in the first place... that's weird
| @JustDefending I personally wouldn't shame them since their actions only affect themselves (but still debatable since a society with too many sick people aggravate the load on the health system). But people always judge and shame. Some will just straight up do it to bully them since they feel they kinda are socially accepted targets, or they somewhat just feel superior and want to remind them that they are beneath them. |
Reply to traed
What even is "willing"? There is genetic, environmental and educational factors and past experience that influence people. Also shaming someone isn't going to change their behavior.
| @traed I meant willingly, as their health conditions all came from their own decisions and not worsened from genetics or any trauma. Sure, life influence us in many ways but I'm not going to completely disregard free will because of that. |
| It goes beyond shaming. More like telling someone is already done. Do you guys know the Iranian guy, Amou Haji? That guy who is known as World’s Dirtiest Man in the world. The man who never took show once for decades. Probably over 60 years never showered. Even through the COVID-19 pandemic, that man was fine. Only to die at age 94 on Oct 23, 2022. |
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| In a world where a lot of people know that they're condemned to work until death, that would indeed just be kicking a person when they're down. Put yourself in their shoes. Why would you take care of yourself knowing you'll forever be a slave? A shorter life is just a less exploited life at that point. |
| “Loddfafnir, listen to my counsel: You will fare well if you follow it, It will help you much if you heed it. If aware that another is wicked, say so: Make no truce or treaty with foes.” - Havamal 127 |
| I wouldn't shame someone for being morbidly obese, because I myself am overweight. |
| No, I'm not the type of person that likes to shame anyone for anything. I will admit though that it may make some individuals take less pity on them since they brought it on themselves. |
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Reply to fleurbleue
@traed I meant willingly, as their health conditions all came from their own decisions and not worsened from genetics or any trauma. Sure, life influence us in many ways but I'm not going to completely disregard free will because of that.
| @fleurbleue There is free will but my point is different people have different degrees of free will so it is difficult to determine how much is something they can help. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| Yeah if you want to end up like a hell bent lunatic or something. There's no way to hound a man to his death you know. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| I do get the urge when people are alcoholics. But also it's an addiction so I don't shame them as that's a bit of a dick move But I make an exception when it comes to my dad, I'll shame his drunk ass all I like |
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| Shaming people normally results in them doubling down out of spite, so it's not an effective way of getting through to someone if you genuinely care about their wellbeing. |
Take care of yourself |
getah_karet said: reading that he died from bathing I could recall this part that he died after his last shower. I don’t know how chemicals work, however, some toxins in general I assume activate once they make contact with water. The man even smoked sheep faeces. |
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| Depends how you define shaming. Telling somebody you're close with factually that their habits are bad for their health should definitely be OK. |
I'm not reading any replies or comments directed at me at all. I know my truth and if you disagree: that's fine but i couldn't give a damn about :) |
| Well nobody shames Jerry Garcia for it |
 |
| I'd say shaming undesirable behavior would be good for society at large, but it only works on people that have shame and there's few of those these days. So I'd suggest doing something that has a better track record of working. Like taxing undesirable behavior. Heavily. Wanna eat what McDonald calls food? Sure, 500% tax on everything. Disincentivizing harmful behavior would go a long way. Eating healthy already is cheaper than eating unhealthy, but people still do it because it doesn't cost that much and is convenient. Can't do much about the convenience, but you can make it prohibitively expensive through taxation. Same for alcohol. Sure, drink your beer. $100 per bottle. If you are rich enough to afford it, you can also afford the associated negative externalties. And the extra money will pay for all the negative externalties of people acquiring it illegally. Win-win. |
| I don't think we should shame them when they are dying, but you should criticize them before the shit hits the fan for their lifestyle choices. |
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| Willingly? Like they have a mental illness? Assuming they don't have a mental illness, I'd say shaming them is a virtue. Because I'd leave them to rot in their own little bubble. |
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| What's your end goal, ultimately? That's what you need to think of. "Is it acceptable to shame them?" - what do you foresee as the result of that action? |
Supreme Seireitei - Captain of the 10th Court Guard Squad  |
| If you think being an asshole is acceptable then yes. |
Reply to lucjan
Well nobody shames Jerry Garcia for it
| @lucjan Not true, Jerry Garcia took as much grief as anybody. Just that he took more acid than they could shame him for so it worked really well for a while. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| I wouldn’t particularly feel judgmental or feel the name to shame. Because the feeling of being holier than thou isn’t a trait that I find very sensible of me . |
 |
Reply to lucjan
@xMizu_ I've never heard anyone shame him for it. I only hear amazing things about Jerry and The Grateful Dead.
| @lucjan They definitely have their detractors hahah. I mean, people are still in jail serving life sentences for acid distribution. It doesn't seem like a big deal until it is. Nowadays yeah they're very melded into the mainstream but they used to be entirely on the wrong side of the law. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| It is acceptable to shame people for any reason whatsoever. However, the most shameful act is the act of shaming. Shame on you! |
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