| Further discussion/ranting about pretty boys giving each other suggestive looks in Kamen Rider series, as well as the gradual "feminizing" of riders, and the cleanliness theme that's driving everyone insane, should be directed here. Personally, I love pretty boys and enjoy a bit of BL now and then. RH Plus (with at least 3 KR alumni) about a group of young vampires living in a house together and sharing some sexually-suggestive moments was simply AWESOME. ^_^ Isn't this the same concept as a guy being turned on seeing two girls having more than a little fun together? ;) On a bit more serious note, I also like how homosexuality is being portrayed more openly in media... even if BL is entirely in the "forbidden romance" genre. Heh. Even though I joke about it a lot, I wouldn't mind seeing a "manlier" rider such as those form the Showa era. Even I was floored by how weak Den-O was on his own. I also really liked Hibiki and feel it (before the stupid staff changeover) was one of the most balanced rider series in the Heisei era. I'd love to see some stronger male riders, but also some strong female riders. I'm also sick of the fake "dirt" and lack of blood, sweat and tears. I'll give up my pretty boys and their suggestiveness for some real heroes any day! |
| <---made of awesome! |
| Heeey, I liked Den-O.Even though he was probably the most prettiest Rider. But then again, Momotaros was the true Kamen Rider Den-O. But even though, Ryoutaro Nogami was a weak, cowardly, pathetic, no-good, bad-luck bringing, whining, wussy, etc. Rider. He grew as a character. I think his development as a character was the most well-done in Heisei series. Comparing Nogami to Tendou from Kabuto. Tendou started off as a loner who didn't really have many friends. Back to Den-O, he started out weak and helpless and relied everything on his Imagins. But they should've stopped the pretty boy Rider with him. Wataru? No. Kiva looked and was dangerous, and I don't think Wataru was a good match. |
SusanJul 25, 2009 9:07 PM
Susan said: I'd love to see some stronger male riders, but also some strong female riders. I'm also sick of the fake "dirt" and lack of blood, sweat and tears. I'll give up my pretty boys and their suggestiveness for some real heroes any day! M'am, I'm gonna hack a piece of log from atree and carve it to your liking. You speak words of truth. Momo, nobody is criticizing especifically Den-O or Ryou. The problem is the whole concept of the wussy riders. If you think about the original riders (and how a super hero should be) you think of GAR. Men that are so manly that make us look like little girls. Someone you can look up to. Of course, there are less manly heroes and they have their parts. Thy could even be the proagonists sometimes. But the problem is that there is no manly KR anymore. And the whole BL subtones are also a problem. I understand that it is a way to lure the female audience, and it happens in shounen mangá all the times nowadays. But as a guy, seeing your super heroes exchanging affectionate looks with each other is a problem. And since they also stripped the riders from their romantic feelings towards girls... I mean, black had a girlfriend. Nowadays they don't even flirt. And whe the girls are givng them attentions they are angsty and rude and ignore them. Another thing that has been buggin me is the change in direction towards lighter and funnier stories. The old gen KR were tragic heroes that were as monstrous as the monsters they fought and were motivated by revenge at first, but somehow changed their minds and saterted seeking justice. Today we have boys taht somehow find themselves in possession of a belt and are unsure and reluctant. And the series started having an overall lighter tone since Kabuto. |
m4rc0Jul 25, 2009 1:40 PM
m4rc0 said: M'am, I'm gonna hack a piece of log from atree and carve it to your liking. You speak words of truth. Momo, nobody is criticizing especially Den-O or Ryou. The problem is the whole concept of the wussy riders. If you think about the original riders (and how a super hero should be) you think of GAR. Men that are so manly that make us look like little girls. Someone you can look up to. Of course, there are less manly heroes and they have their parts. Thy could even be the protagonists sometimes. But the problem is that there is no manly KR anymore. And the whole BL subtones are also a problem. I understand that it is a way to lure the female audience, and it happens in shounen mangá all the times nowadays. But as a guy, seeing your super heroes exchanging affectionate looks with each other is a problem. And since they also stripped the riders from their romantic feelings towards girls... I mean, black had a girlfriend. Nowadays they don't even flirt. And whe the girls are givng them attentions they are angsty and rude and ignore them. Another thing that has been buggin me is the change in direction towards lighter and funnier stories. The old gen KR were tragic heroes that were as monstrous as the monsters they fought and were motivated by revenge at first, but somehow changed their minds and saterted seeking justice. Today we have boys taht somehow find themselves in possession of a belt and are unsure and reluctant. And the series started having an overall lighter tone since Kabuto. I feel you. I began watching Kamen Rider with Blade, and I loved it. And right now, I'm realizing how different Blade and Den-O are. It's true that Kamen Rider have taken a lighter tone with happy endings. But since now everything is mostly about money, Toei had to make this change. Anyways, back to the "WTH" topic: What's with trend about passing the Kamen Riders around? It's like TheBee was passed through like...4-5 characters. And IXA was passed like...I don't know how many times, but to me, that just loses the whole idea of "uniqueness" of the Rider. ESPECIALLY WITH DARK KIVA. He was supposed to be like this evil Rider, but then he was passed like 3x. Another thing that I don't like is the lack of relationships with the main character. I mean Wataru had Mio, but that's the same thing as yuri. LOL, just kidding. But hearing how Black had a girlfriend. They should've gave Ryoutaro a woman, so he'd man up and protect her! |
SusanJul 25, 2009 9:05 PM
| Ease up on the spoilers, Momo. M4rc0 hasn't watched Blade yet for one thing, and you're ruining the story for other people. ;) |
| <---made of awesome! |
| Oooh, nice call. That would've been bad. I remember I told my friend the ending of Code Geass, and he didn't talk to me for months. :P |
| -Absurdly bad amnesia arcs -The need for Bandai to wreck good stories to sell toys (Hibiki....*sobs*) -Overly weak Riders -A writing staff that doesn't know how to answer questions properly -TOO. MANY. RIDERS. IN. ONE. SERIES. Those are just some of the things that make me think "WTH". Nay, I think "WTF". |
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| They need to pull off another three-rider series like Agito. - The manly, heroic Rider who only depends on himself. - The weak, reluctant Rider who doesn't know what to with himself. - The bad-ass Rider who just does whatever he wants. And let them develop off from each other. Followed by a cast of beautiful women, a powerful and intelligent enemy, a simple (for the younger fans), yet deep plot, and some sick BIKE action. And I'll be happy. :P |
| Thnx, Susan :) Ryoutaro was such a wimp that Hana had to protect him. But CC, only Kabuto (and aparently Kiva) have too many riders. The other series have 1-3. Ok Hibiki had tens, but the focus was only in those 3. Lack of fanservice for boys. I mean they are eager to put shitless "pretty boys", but they seldom cast many females. And when they do they don't ave the decency to ake a beach episode or explore their beauties. I mean if its ok for the boys, why not for the girls? |
m4rc0 said: But CC, only Kabuto (and aparently Kiva) have too many riders. The other series have 1-3. Ok Hibiki had tens, but the focus was only in those 3. It's also the ones with 1-3 that get old sometimes. For example, (Faiz spoiler) |
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| Dont agree on the that Kiva got to many Riders and even if they did all of the riders were show and got a piece of the story not like The Hell Bros and Drake XD |
Spirits of the light! Wielders of the great power that shines far and wide upon the lands of our world... In my hour of need, grant me the light to banish evil! |
CCZilla said: m4rc0 said: But CC, only Kabuto (and aparently Kiva) have too many riders. The other series have 1-3. Ok Hibiki had tens, but the focus was only in those 3. It's also the ones with 1-3 that get old sometimes. For example, (Faiz spoiler) Don't get me started about that. I think that was the worst part of Faiz. Come to think of it, slowly but surely KR series are become more and more badly paced and full of random plot holes. Kiva was just INSANE. |
| <---made of awesome! |
Momotaros said: Anyways, back to the "WTH" topic: What's with trend about passing the Kamen Riders around? It's like TheBee was passed through like...4-5 characters. And IXA was passed like...I don't know how many times, but to me, that just loses the whole idea of "uniqueness" of the Rider. ESPECIALLY WITH DARK KIVA. He was supposed to be like this evil Rider, but then he was passed like 3x. Well Thebee belongs to a organization so if the Rider isnt suited anymore its obvious they would kick him out XD Same goes with Ixa only in the 1986 Time line it was funny and in the 2008 line it was annoying. Kiva spoiler. |
| Spirits of the light! Wielders of the great power that shines far and wide upon the lands of our world... In my hour of need, grant me the light to banish evil! |
| I liked Saga's design A LOT more than Dark Kiva's. It contrasted with Kiva's red and golden Emperor form and looked great together. Something that made me go 'wtf' happened during Decade's 26th episode. Decade spoiler: |
| well my friend showed me that the actor of kamen rider blade.. is doing gay pron.. made me drop my jaw.. absorb queer... fusion jacked... |
  |
battleknight45 said: well my friend showed me that the actor of kamen rider blade.. is doing gay pron.. made me drop my jaw.. absorb queer... fusion jacked... WHA? Tsubaki Takayuki? Are you kidding me? @_@ |
| <---made of awesome! |
Susan said: no really the guy kamen rider blade.. it was him.. i saw the cover and it scarred me for life..battleknight45 said: well my friend showed me that the actor of kamen rider blade.. is doing gay pron.. made me drop my jaw.. absorb queer... fusion jacked... WHA? Tsubaki Takayuki? Are you kidding me? @_@ not to mention kick hopper has a yaoi movie with bouken black... and another yaoi movie featuring punch hopper... |
battleknight45Jul 30, 2009 1:49 AM
| |
Momotaros said: They need to pull off another three-rider series like Agito. - The manly, heroic Rider who only depends on himself. - The weak, reluctant Rider who doesn't know what to with himself. - The bad-ass Rider who just does whatever he wants. And let them develop off from each other. Followed by a cast of beautiful women, a powerful and intelligent enemy, a simple (for the younger fans), yet deep plot, and some sick BIKE action. And I'll be happy. :P ....Who are ANY of those? Well, Gills was definitely bad-ass, but if you think those other two fit Agito and G3, a rewatch is in order. Anyhow...I guess the pretty boys do get old. But Kuuga, Agito, and Blade were so amazingly hardcore bad-ass that I can't complain too much. |
| Jumping in Headfirst - I hear reading it causes immortality. Warning. Reading may not actually cause immortality. |
m4rc0 said: Thnx, Susan :) Ryoutaro was such a wimp that Hana had to protect him. But CC, only Kabuto (and aparently Kiva) have too many riders. The other series have 1-3. Ok Hibiki had tens, but the focus was only in those 3. I'm curious about this. Kiva had a lot of Riders? To my knowledge, there were only four. Kiva, IxA, Saga, and Dark Kiva. Only three of those were in the present, and only two of them were in the past. |
| Jumping in Headfirst - I hear reading it causes immortality. Warning. Reading may not actually cause immortality. |
| I haven't watched it and that is why I wrote apparently. |
SageShinigami said: I'm curious about this. Kiva had a lot of Riders? To my knowledge, there were only four. Kiva, IxA, Saga, and Dark Kiva. Only three of those were in the present, and only two of them were in the past. You're not counting the number of Ixa users (which I believe m4rc0 was referring to). Ixa altogether had 8 users: Otoya, Jiro, Yuri, Rook, Nago, Megumi, Kengo and Ryo. Needless to say, the system just got passed around too much (and yes, I know some of those were one-time users). And about your Agito comment. I don't think Momotaros was saying any of the 3 riders in Agito were those type of characters he listed. He wants to see a series with a 3-rider dynamic, but with those 3 particular character types. |
| <---made of awesome! |
SageShinigami said: m4rc0 said: Thnx, Susan :) Ryoutaro was such a wimp that Hana had to protect him. But CC, only Kabuto (and aparently Kiva) have too many riders. The other series have 1-3. Ok Hibiki had tens, but the focus was only in those 3. I'm curious about this. Kiva had a lot of Riders? To my knowledge, there were only four. Kiva, IxA, Saga, and Dark Kiva. Only three of those were in the present, and only two of them were in the past. The show REALLY didn't need Dark Kiva, and you're not counting the two from the movie (Rey and Arc). |
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| Oh yeah. Rey and Arc. XD So 5+1(8)=13 riders total. =D |
| <---made of awesome! |
| The thing that makes me WTH from KR series is the minimal use of the bikes (Important concept that often forgotten). Maybe it's just only me but i felt that some riders are a bit detached with their bikes in the series after Blade (except for Kabuto but that's also not enough). - There is not enough battle that involves the rider's bike (there is only a handful in each series) - Not enough "running over the enemy with bikes" scenes - Chasing scenes? Bikers vs Bikers battle? Flying Bikes scene? - Some riders don't even have their own bike or even rides one (the title kamen rider becomes questionable) - The concept of the bike also "henshin" alongside the rider was also dropped after Agito KR like Kuuga and Agito are still seen often with their bikes in most episode (they come to the fighting scene with a bike and use their bike as a weapon) and they still maintain a lot of the original bike concepts. Series such as Ryuki, Faiz and Blade are still OK (the bike usage was slightly reduced however) since all of the riders do ride something at one point and there are still quite a lot of battle involving the bikes. We still can see the actor using the bike quite often. Hibiki, well they are called oni in the series any way and the series was not intended to be KR series, so not much problem with that. Great bikes though Kabuto was OK since they still have some battle with their bikes scenes although i would say the cast off version of the bike is a bit ridiculous. Den-O, i dont treat the series as KR series anyway so not much problem with that. Kiva, Cool bike but rarely used, Bron Booster doesn't help much, shame... Decade, I hope instead of turning Agito into Machine Tornadoer he would turn his bike into it instead, great premise with the bike but not used. Same apply to Gouram... Double, At least double and shotaro use it in the first 2 episodes and they have the whole mecha devoted for their bike's modification. High expectation |
| Faiz had little use of the bike in battle. He normally just used it as transportation. There were some fights with them, but too little. I'm watching blade now and not only they are almost always drivin their bikes, they tend to run the undead over and do battle with the bikes. It has more bike action than Kabuto, for instance. Let's hope that W uses his bike more often. |
Susan said: SageShinigami said: I'm curious about this. Kiva had a lot of Riders? To my knowledge, there were only four. Kiva, IxA, Saga, and Dark Kiva. Only three of those were in the present, and only two of them were in the past. You're not counting the number of Ixa users (which I believe m4rc0 was referring to). Ixa altogether had 8 users: Otoya, Jiro, Yuri, Rook, Nago, Megumi, Kengo and Ryo. Needless to say, the system just got passed around too much (and yes, I know some of those were one-time users). That doesn't count. They tell me the henshin devices in Faiz got passed around a lot too. And I mean, wow. To include Rook too? LOL--its the tech Rider, so they always get passed around a lot. Even G3 did it a couple of times. Movies add Riders a lot, also. And about your Agito comment. I don't think Momotaros was saying any of the 3 riders in Agito were those type of characters he listed. He wants to see a series with a 3-rider dynamic, but with those 3 particular character types. Fair enough. I admit you may be right. I'm watching blade now and not only they are almost always drivin their bikes, they tend to run the undead over and do battle with the bikes. It has more bike action than Kabuto, for instance. A LOT more. Near as I can tell, Blade pretty much was the last Rider series where the bikes were more than just one-time appearances for toys. Hibiki, as mentioned, isn't really a Rider series anyway. Kabuto rarely used them to my knowledge, Den-O didn't in the episodes I saw, and Kiva almost NEVER used his bike. It appeared once in the debut episode, then again (most notably) against IxA and his bike, and then it kinda...vanished before we even made it to the 20s. The next time I remember seeing it, its like the 40s or so and I was like, "Holy crap I forgot he had that thing!!" LMAO. |
| Jumping in Headfirst - I hear reading it causes immortality. Warning. Reading may not actually cause immortality. |
| Den-O's bike use was hilarious. The bike was what drove the Denliner. So instead of a bike, he had the train. Rarely did the bike get used outside of the train. |
| <---made of awesome! |
Susan said: Den-O's bike use was hilarious. The bike was what drove the Denliner. So instead of a bike, he had the train. Rarely did the bike get used outside of the train. I thought that's what I remembered from the few episodes I'd seen of Den-O. It was amusing, but rather odd. Still, not much odder than Kamen Rider W's bike and all its different attachments. |
| Jumping in Headfirst - I hear reading it causes immortality. Warning. Reading may not actually cause immortality. |
| I just find it amusing that they had this idea to use a bike at all. I think Ryotarou actually rode a bicycle more often than he rode the motorbike outside of the DenLiner. But who needs a motorbike when you have an entire train that can travel through time and space? XD |
| <---made of awesome! |
CCZilla said: The show REALLY didn't need Dark Kiva, and you're not counting the two from the movie (Rey and Arc). Just caught this. ...The show didn't need Dark Kiva? Really? So...how were they going to beat King in the past, again? Pure luck? I mean, I guess Dark Kiva wasn't NEEDED, but, arguably...only one Rider is ever REALLY needed, so...explain? |
| Jumping in Headfirst - I hear reading it causes immortality. Warning. Reading may not actually cause immortality. |
SageShinigami said: CCZilla said: The show REALLY didn't need Dark Kiva, and you're not counting the two from the movie (Rey and Arc). Just caught this. ...The show didn't need Dark Kiva? Really? So...how were they going to beat King in the past, again? Pure luck? I mean, I guess Dark Kiva wasn't NEEDED, but, arguably...only one Rider is ever REALLY needed, so...explain? KIVA SPOILERS ABOUND: And to answer that last part of your question, I'm cool with 2 or even 3 Riders at most in one series since that'd be tradition (original two shows had 2 Riders each, after all). Anymore than that is getting ridiculous, and at that point, just go ahead and call that "Kamen Rider" show a Super Sentai. |
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CCZilla said: SageShinigami said: CCZilla said: The show REALLY didn't need Dark Kiva, and you're not counting the two from the movie (Rey and Arc). Just caught this. ...The show didn't need Dark Kiva? Really? So...how were they going to beat King in the past, again? Pure luck? I mean, I guess Dark Kiva wasn't NEEDED, but, arguably...only one Rider is ever REALLY needed, so...explain? KIVA SPOILERS ABOUND: Fair enough. You explained your POV, so I understand you. I disagree though. BTW. Ishinomori was involved in all the Rider shows up to Kuuga, so tradition is anything in Showa era Riders. Which, btw, tended to involve nearly all the old Riders from the previous series appearing to aid the heroes. So a multitude of Riders is nothing new, even if they weren't all introduced in the same series. The difference between KR and Super Sentai in the New Generation will always be that, for Sentai, its all about teamwork and KR is about battling on your own. Even when the Riders are getting along (late Agito, Blade), its still generally about one on one battles, while Sentai is all about five (or six...or seven) on one. |
| Jumping in Headfirst - I hear reading it causes immortality. Warning. Reading may not actually cause immortality. |
| It's all the same: 1) Where is my bike, mate? It's Kamen Rider, for Christ's sake! 2) What's with all that Rider Vs. Rider thingy? I thought the initial idea was about a one single hero battling evil organization, wasn't it? 3) Too. Many. Riders. It's no longer classical scheme "1 main KR + 1 secondary KR". Pretty much now every show should be renamed as "Kamen Riders". |
 There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value.  Persona anime are good. Deal with it. |
| Kame Rider 1 already had introduced Kamen Rider 2. Ok, it was due to the actor's injury, but more than one rider is a thing since then Riderman was a rival and fought V3. And 1 and 2 showed up in V3 as well. Showa riders tended to cross over sometimes. |
| @m4rc0, thanks, I know my Showa Riders pretty well, and I didn't say that "more than one Rider is wrong", if you read carefully. And of course, periodical battles between Riders are 0K, it's fun and entertaining to watch. But not when the whole show turning to Battle Royale/Grand Tournament between Riders. I'm currently watching OOO and boy am I glad that it starts classical - one Rider battling evil monsters. 15 episodes and only now we've got a glimpse - just a glimpse, nothing more - of a secondary Rider. And relationships between main character and the one who will going to be the secondary Rider are already pretty good, so it looks like it will not be immediate battle between them. |
There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value. Persona anime are good. Deal with it. |
| Every filthy attributes on their belts and armory/costume. Seen a rocket in your hand or a technically wheel in your chest, fruit theme armor, that's too much for grown up like me. Ofc tokusatsu always merit with toy pandering, but nowadays the ideas is too much and too convoluted eventho' it's still sell. |
 la critique de l'intention pure |
jeanseberg said: Every filthy attributes on their belts and armory/costume. Seen a rocket in your hand or a technically wheel in your chest, fruit theme armor, that's too much for grown up like me. Ofc tokusatsu always merit with toy pandering, but nowadays the ideas is too much and too convoluted eventho' it's still sell. Give Gaim some credit though. The fruit theme wasn't over the top, and the armour at least mimicked traditional Japanese armour more so than fruit. If you didn't know the designs were based on fruit, I doubt it would have crossed your mind that's what they were. Overall, I think Gaim had eye-catching and effective costume designs. It was a very sharp-looking series. It was the weapons that were too fruity, but nobody's perfect. |
| <---made of awesome! |
Susan said: do you think I don't know they were? mixing japanese armor and fruit? with all "clan symbol" and sengoku's war - vibe all the way? I just simplified my word there fella. Whatever it was the fruit theme make it legit lame in my perspective. that's is ur privilege to likened that tho' . I still don't care.jeanseberg said: Every filthy attributes on their belts and armory/costume. Seen a rocket in your hand or a technically wheel in your chest, fruit theme armor, that's too much for grown up like me. Ofc tokusatsu always merit with toy pandering, but nowadays the ideas is too much and too convoluted eventho' it's still sell. Give Gaim some credit though. The fruit theme wasn't over the top, and the armour at least mimicked traditional Japanese armour more so than fruit. If you didn't know the designs were based on fruit, I doubt it would have crossed your mind that's what they were. Overall, I think Gaim had eye-catching and effective costume designs. It was a very sharp-looking series. It was the weapons that were too fruity, but nobody's perfect. |
la critique de l'intention pure |
| @jeanseberg, let me guess - you did not see Ex-Aid costumes? Gaim's are bloody moderate in comparison to it. |
There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value. Persona anime are good. Deal with it. |
| The constant use of the show using frame jitters/effects when trying to convey comedy. It's just annoying, over the top and most of the time not funny. It's especially jarring when it follows a serious scene/darker episode. |
| Spirits of the light! Wielders of the great power that shines far and wide upon the lands of our world... In my hour of need, grant me the light to banish evil! |
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