| Thread Reflection and Acknowledgment First, I want to acknowledge that many of the points raised in this discussion are completely valid. The argument that MAL’s community and discussions remain Japan-focused makes perfect sense given the site’s history, its long-term user base, and the cultural legacy of the fansub era. For many veteran users, the association of “anime = Japanese animation” is not just about literal definition, but also about shared cultural identity and the way the medium has historically been experienced in the West. From this perspective, continuing to use “anime” in this way is entirely reasonable and consistent with both historical and social context. I also see now that the original question I posed about MAL’s “purist culture” could have been clearer. Given how anime has been culturally connoted in the West, asking whether this purism is inherent to anime or just a product of MAL’s history may have been unnecessary — the answer largely reflects how the medium has been understood outside Japan. Language and word meaning don’t evolve purely through etymology; they evolve in cultural practice. In this case, “anime” functions as a cultural shorthand in the West for Japanese-style animation, and that usage carries real historical and social weight. That said, from my perspective, there is still room to appreciate and include high-quality animation from outside Japan. Style, storytelling, and artistic influence can cross borders, and it can be productive to recognize these works alongside Japanese animation without erasing their own origins. I understand why many users might resist broadening the term — it touches on nostalgia, identity, and the survival of a long-standing community culture — but my hope is that, over time, the term might be used more flexibly to include these influences while still respecting the history and tradition that MAL users have preserved. Ultimately, this discussion helped me better understand why the purist perspective exists and why it persists, while also reaffirming that there is value in looking at animation beyond strict national boundaries. Both perspectives can coexist, and recognizing the historical and cultural roots of the term “anime” does not prevent us from imagining a more inclusive future for the medium. |
 Don't mind me, just vibing here ^_^ |
Hikikomori-san2 said: Japanese-style animation, not exclusively country of origin. Anime doesn't have one style. What is fixed is that it is from Japan:  I don't get why stuff from other countries should be labelled anime to benefit from the associated brand recognition. Other countries can make their own industry that isn't the anime industry and find success. What makes anime is not a style, but a culture. However, culture is hard to define so it's easier to go by things that are easy to verify, like being made in Japan, by Japanese, with Japanese voice acting for Japanese people. And I think the issue is that people that are nowadays called tourists do not quite understand the meaning of the word anime and presume wrongly that it is a style. They only see the surface of things. Kinda like with racism, where some people think the issue is the color of the skin, when in reality it's the associated behavior patterns that are the root cause of discontent. |
| what is wrong with specifically discussing anime on an anime forum? |
| anime is japanese. do you go to myfoxnews and ask why is it focused on fox news instead of disney shows? I seriously don't know what's confusing here. " discussions often revolve around classic series" where? classic anime is long forgotten. |
| 馬鹿げた倫理 全部ガラクタで |
Reply to Fukoku
It's "MyAnimeList", so of course it'll be Japan-centered/focused.
Though, there are other reasons for this. I know not everyone in the anime community is like this, but many in said community (some even on MAL) are either a gatekeeper, a racist, or a fetishizer. This is because of the many ways that Japanese society is perceived worldwide. It's the main reason why I don't get along well with plenty of animanga fans.
For those who say "anime translates to animation". Yes, I understand that, but there's a difference in the way it's done. Different art styles, different cultural standards, etc. Like, apart from these two (A Silent Voice for top, Beauty and the Beast for bottom) being animated movies, they aren't really comparable.
Though, there are other reasons for this. I know not everyone in the anime community is like this, but many in said community (some even on MAL) are either a gatekeeper, a racist, or a fetishizer. This is because of the many ways that Japanese society is perceived worldwide. It's the main reason why I don't get along well with plenty of animanga fans.
For those who say "anime translates to animation". Yes, I understand that, but there's a difference in the way it's done. Different art styles, different cultural standards, etc. Like, apart from these two (A Silent Voice for top, Beauty and the Beast for bottom) being animated movies, they aren't really comparable.
| @Fukoku >gatekeepers Telling people to "watch more anime" is not even serious gatekeeping; the fact that's what gatekeeps casuals shows that actually enjoying a show today is a rare art lost in the seas of slop consooming. Casuals are oftentimes ignoramuses who don't really try to... you know, actually try out more shows beyond the mainstream. Without prejudice. But no, they babble away whatever some rando influencer told them to say about [show x]. >racist This word lost basically all the meaning over the past decade, same with basically all the -ism-s. >fetishizer And how does that matter at all? Every single fandom has them. You haven't heard of Booktok and what kind of works pass today for being read. Hint - it's literally ten times worse than anything the anime fandom likes in fanservice. I'm serious about this, the anime fandom is pretty vanilla today. Gone are the days when it was the leading edge in terms of what it was about. |
| Hot Blood saves lives. |
TheMechaManiac said: @Fukoku >gatekeepers Telling people to "watch more anime" is not even serious gatekeeping; the fact that's what gatekeeps casuals shows that actually enjoying a show today is a rare art lost in the seas of slop consooming. Casuals are oftentimes ignoramuses who don't really try to... you know, actually try out more shows beyond the mainstream. Without prejudice. But no, they babble away whatever some rando influencer told them to say about [show x]. >racist This word lost basically all the meaning over the past decade, same with basically all the -ism-s. >fetishizer And how does that matter at all? Every single fandom has them. You haven't heard of Booktok and what kind of works pass today for being read. Hint - it's literally ten times worse than anything the anime fandom likes in fanservice. I'm serious about this, the anime fandom is pretty vanilla today. Gone are the days when it was the leading edge in terms of what it was about. 1. That’s not what I’m talking about when I refer to gatekeeping. Gatekeeping as in stopping others from enjoying animanga. When animanga is for everyone. 2. While it is true racist has become a buzzword, I think it’s safe to use that word here. Black anime cosplayers get so much hate when they cosplay non black characters like Hinata Hyuga. Just recently, one cosplayer by the name of SquidKid1111 took her life because of the hate she got. Last month, when VIZ announced that the manga “Half Is More” would be released in English next year, a bunch of anime fans started hating and even made racist remarks/edits. On a side note, when the actress for Vivi was announced for the live action One Piece, a bunch of people made racist remarks and even attacked black people when she’s not even black? I don’t even like the casting decision myself, but it’s not an excuse to be hateful. 3. I agree, the fetishizer part can be seen everywhere else. But doesn’t mean I like it. It’s still a problem. |
FukokuYesterday, 9:19 AM
| If I had to choose between One Piece and a girlfriend...I think I'll go with One Piece |
nyugvo6 said: anime is japanese. do you go to myfoxnews and ask why is it focused on fox news instead of disney shows? I seriously don't know what's confusing here. " discussions often revolve around classic series" where? classic anime is long forgotten. I mean classical anime is still brought up in forums today… |
| If I had to choose between One Piece and a girlfriend...I think I'll go with One Piece |
| If anime loses its Japanese identity then anything can be anime. That's what defines it, it's what gives it meaning as a term. You can tell where a show is from based on a number of factors, and calling shows like Avatar, Ladybug, or Blue Eye Samurai as knockoffs, fake anime, or foreign anime not only makes the term anime less valuable, but it also makes them seem less valuable because you're putting Japanese animation on a pedestal that other nations are trying to get close to. Netflix calling anything they feel like "anime" is a culprit, and it gives the wrong impression to people. Animation can be good without being anime, and anime isn't inherently good. There's a lot of bad anime out there so saying "this show is good, but it will never be anime" is only true because anime is something that is tied to a culture. Just like how American aged cheese will never be Parmigiano Reggiano, or American single malt whiskey will never be Scotch, that doesn't mean they're inherently worse, but being in the same style doesn't mean they're in the same category, because you can always tell the country of origin and one country of origin has a different term to describe it. MAL also lists donghua and aeni which I don't consider to be the same thing as anime, but I also don't think they don't belong on MAL, since we've had them here from the beginning, and their fanbases have a lot of overlap with anime. I think MAL should have a proper way to separate them out from anime. |
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Reply to zombie_pegasus
If anime loses its Japanese identity then anything can be anime. That's what defines it, it's what gives it meaning as a term. You can tell where a show is from based on a number of factors, and calling shows like Avatar, Ladybug, or Blue Eye Samurai as knockoffs, fake anime, or foreign anime not only makes the term anime less valuable, but it also makes them seem less valuable because you're putting Japanese animation on a pedestal that other nations are trying to get close to.
Netflix calling anything they feel like "anime" is a culprit, and it gives the wrong impression to people. Animation can be good without being anime, and anime isn't inherently good. There's a lot of bad anime out there so saying "this show is good, but it will never be anime" is only true because anime is something that is tied to a culture. Just like how American aged cheese will never be Parmigiano Reggiano, or American single malt whiskey will never be Scotch, that doesn't mean they're inherently worse, but being in the same style doesn't mean they're in the same category, because you can always tell the country of origin and one country of origin has a different term to describe it.
MAL also lists donghua and aeni which I don't consider to be the same thing as anime, but I also don't think they don't belong on MAL, since we've had them here from the beginning, and their fanbases have a lot of overlap with anime. I think MAL should have a proper way to separate them out from anime.
Netflix calling anything they feel like "anime" is a culprit, and it gives the wrong impression to people. Animation can be good without being anime, and anime isn't inherently good. There's a lot of bad anime out there so saying "this show is good, but it will never be anime" is only true because anime is something that is tied to a culture. Just like how American aged cheese will never be Parmigiano Reggiano, or American single malt whiskey will never be Scotch, that doesn't mean they're inherently worse, but being in the same style doesn't mean they're in the same category, because you can always tell the country of origin and one country of origin has a different term to describe it.
MAL also lists donghua and aeni which I don't consider to be the same thing as anime, but I also don't think they don't belong on MAL, since we've had them here from the beginning, and their fanbases have a lot of overlap with anime. I think MAL should have a proper way to separate them out from anime.
| @zombie_pegasus I get what you’re saying about cultural grounding — “anime” as a term has meaning because it’s tied to Japan. But when you try to apply that idea to actual production reality, the boundary becomes much harder to draw than it sounds on paper. Where exactly do we set the line? Because the moment you move beyond the idealized picture and look at how anime is actually produced, things get blurry fast: A huge amount of Japanese anime is made with Korean, Chinese, and Southeast Asian key animation. (Sometimes whole episodes are almost entirely non-Japanese staff.) Japan constantly outsources in-betweening, coloring, and even full scene work abroad. It has been this way since the 1970s. Many “fully Japanese” anime have non-Japanese directors, storyboarders, character designers, or art directors. Think of Leiji Matsumoto’s French collaborators, or recent series with American or Korean episode directors. Co-productions muddy the water even further. Is a Japan–France project still “pure anime”? What about when a Japanese studio only handles part of the production, or just supervises? Foreign companies commission anime from Japanese studios. Batman Ninja is “anime.” Castlevania: Nocturne is animated primarily in Japan. Several Chinese IPs have anime versions produced by Japanese Teams. If the defining feature is “Japanese origin,” then we need a consistent threshold: 51% Japanese staff? Japanese lead studio but foreign key animation okay? Japanese publisher funding but foreign production acceptable? Japanese broadcast first? Japanese planning committee involvement? No one can give a workable definition that doesn’t break the moment you apply it to real-world workflows. That’s why this border ends up feeling arbitrary: Anime is only “purely Japanese” in a cultural identity sense, not in a production-reality Sense. And that’s totally fine — cultural identity matters. But if we’re going to lean on it, we also have to admit that the industry is already globally entangled. Japan’s animation hasn’t been an isolated national craft for decades. The global mix of staff and studios is part of why “anime style” spread in the first place. So my question is genuinely this: If we treat anime as exclusively Japanese, what is the practical, consistent rule that tells us which hybrid or co-produced works still count — and which ones stop being anime? Because the deeper you dig into productions, the more you see that these clean borders don’t actually exist. |
| Don't mind me, just vibing here ^_^ |
Reply to TheMechaManiac
@Fukoku
1. Then I don't think the anime fandom actually has legit gatekeeping. It's the people gatekeeping themselves out of the fandom by not letting themselves loose. But seriously, most people that say they "support gatekeeping" do this to clap back at casuals who whine about imaginary foes like gatekeeping.
2. You're seeing two differing phenomena as one, and they can't be equated.
The first one arose as backlash to all the black complaining that "whites can't act out/cosplay black characters". It's the equal but opposite reaction. Sure, the reaction that cosplayer made was extreme, but it doesn't deny the fact this is mutual and not a one-sided culture war question.
The second one is the overall fatigue people have with this wave of brownie point race swaps of characters that were originally white. Sure not all cases are the same (*cough* Queen Cleopatra *cough*) but still. And no, it can't be correlated with racism because most people will say they don't mind ORIGINAL black characters, or Latino characters or whatever - they're sick of the lazy race swaps.
3. On this one, I have to give you a piece of advice - pay no attention to it if you don't enjoy that kind of content. It applies in general, not everybody thinks the same, not everybody's going to enjoy the same things.
1. Then I don't think the anime fandom actually has legit gatekeeping. It's the people gatekeeping themselves out of the fandom by not letting themselves loose. But seriously, most people that say they "support gatekeeping" do this to clap back at casuals who whine about imaginary foes like gatekeeping.
2. You're seeing two differing phenomena as one, and they can't be equated.
The first one arose as backlash to all the black complaining that "whites can't act out/cosplay black characters". It's the equal but opposite reaction. Sure, the reaction that cosplayer made was extreme, but it doesn't deny the fact this is mutual and not a one-sided culture war question.
The second one is the overall fatigue people have with this wave of brownie point race swaps of characters that were originally white. Sure not all cases are the same (*cough* Queen Cleopatra *cough*) but still. And no, it can't be correlated with racism because most people will say they don't mind ORIGINAL black characters, or Latino characters or whatever - they're sick of the lazy race swaps.
3. On this one, I have to give you a piece of advice - pay no attention to it if you don't enjoy that kind of content. It applies in general, not everybody thinks the same, not everybody's going to enjoy the same things.
| @TheMechaManiac 1. Casuals do experience gatekeeping at least every now and then. 2. Sure, there are cases like that such as when white women dressed up as Smoke and Stack from Sinners. And that's stupid too. But compared to the amount of backlash that happens when a black cosplayer cosplays a non-black character, it's not as large. Black cosplayers are more likely to receive harassment for cosplaying characters that don't match their race, than their white counterparts. It can be correlated to racism because of some factors. First of all, the racism and harassment that the actors/actresses get such as Vivi's actress and Leah Jeffries who played Annabeth in the Disney Percy Jackson. Whether or not the raceswap works doesn't matter, it's not an excuse to harass the actors (same can be applied to harassing actors/actresses in general). Second, a lot of the people who complain about the raceswaps are ironically silent or defending when it comes to whitewashing. When people complained about Genshin Impact whitewashing African gods, they just said "you're making mountains out of molehills". The same can be said for when Scarlet Witch (a canonically Romani character) being cast as a white woman who used anti-Romani rhetoric in interviews. Half is More is an original manga based on the mangaka's mixed friend's experiences in Japan. Yet it still received backlash online. There are other cases too like the video game South of Midnight. The show Ironheart was review bombed before it even released (seriously, I don't even care about Ironheart but what the fuck?). 3. I'll agree depending on how severe the fetishization is. I don’t care about random sexual fetishes or kinks. But fetishization that harms actual people and cultures, that’s the fetishization which is a problem. |
FukokuYesterday, 11:29 AM
| If I had to choose between One Piece and a girlfriend...I think I'll go with One Piece |
Reply to DesuMaiden
what is wrong with specifically discussing anime on an anime forum?
| @DesuMaiden That's the exact question I was asking lmfao. |
| If I had to choose between One Piece and a girlfriend...I think I'll go with One Piece |
Reply to valico
zombie_pegasus said:
If anime loses its Japanese identity then anything can be anime. That's what defines it, it's what gives it meaning as a term. You can tell where a show is from based on a number of factors
If anime loses its Japanese identity then anything can be anime. That's what defines it, it's what gives it meaning as a term. You can tell where a show is from based on a number of factors
I think this is largely false. Anime's identity has its origins in Japan, but nothing stops anyone from making anime exactly the same way as Japan. It's not as if there's something in the water in Japan which makes anime special. Anime distancing itself from it's country of origin doesn't open the term up for "anything" to become anime, particularly if people take the initiative to define clearly what the "number of factors" are which are observable like you mention - those are the things which give anime its identity, and those were inherited from, but not exclusively tied to, Japanese creators.
| @valico You can always tell, though. No matter how much someone tries to imitate the feeling of anime, you can tell it's just an imitation. Fake anime will never be real anime. It's because of the culture it comes from. The factors are largely based on Japan, and even anime set in non-Japanese countries or in fantasy worlds you can still tell they are coming from a Japanese viewpoint to create them. It's what makes anime anime. With coproductions it does get murky. Even if most of the work is done in Japan, it feels less Japanese if it's a Western company at the wheel. I think people should be more proud of where they came from, though, and instead of making imitations of foreign industries, just lean into your own country and what makes it special. Anime isn't a badge of honour, it's a country of origin classification. There are great animations from other countries and we shouldn't look down on them for not being anime. |
zombie_pegasusYesterday, 11:36 AM
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zombie_pegasus said: You can always tell, though. No matter how much someone tries to imitate the feeling of anime, you can tell it's just an imitation. Fake anime will never be real anime. It's actually not easy to tell if something is genuinely Japanese Anime or not simply by watching some shit. At least not since the early 2000s, when you already had shit like "Samurai Jack" deliberately borrowing heavily from Japanese animation. Then shit like "Avatar" came along and blurred the line even more. These days the “visual language of anime” is international, so the surface clues simply aren’t fucking enough and haven’t been for a long time. There are really only a few reliable giveaways if something is truly anime: **1. The Production Company.** Is the shit genuinely led by a Japanese studio or producers, or is it mostly a Western production just outsourcing the work to places like Japan or Korea? Outsourcing alone doesn’t make something anime. What really matters is who’s really steering the project, not people who are doing shit like cleaning up the frames. It’s also not enough for a Western producer to slap their name on a project while the Japanese artists, writers, animators, etc... do the real work... especially if the Western side ultimately has the final word, or some Western producer is constantly hovering over the production like a manager micromanaging every fucking step. **2. The Intended Market.** Who’s the actual main target audience? Was this thing greenlit, funded, and scheduled for the Japanese domestic anime market first... TV blocks, streaming slots, Blu-ray release cycles, Comiket presence, magazine coverage, the whole pipeline? Or is it just a Western production aimed at Western networks that borrows anime aesthetics? Or worse, a project clearly built for Western audiences that only uses Japan’s animation studios and networks as outsourced labor and then gets dumped into Japan’s market as an afterthought? **3. Industry Recognition.** This is the biggest tell: does the "Japanese anime industry" itself treat it as anime? Are Japanese publications, studios, and creators acknowledging it as part of their culture and medium? If Japan doesn’t categorize it as anime... culturally *or* commercially... then it’s just “anime-inspired”, no matter how many sakuga cuts or big eyes it has. Examples of this would be:
Once you look at those factors, the “culture gives it away” argument falls apart. It’s not mystical. It’s not a vibe. It’s literally a matter of who produced it, who it was made for, and whether the Japanese industry even considers it part of their ecosystem. |
ColourWheelYesterday, 1:33 PM
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Borunaro said: Except it was not, animation was outsourced to South Korean studio DR Movie with Powerhouse Animation being the main production company. The dude probably doesn't give a shit, they want everything to be inclusive into the Japanese Anime industry till basically baseball is the same fucking thing as hocky because they are both sports. lol It's obvious the dude just wants donghua garbage to be recognized as Japanese Anime so they will pull anything out of their ass that will help them cheerlead for it. lol Korean Manhwa adaptations have had a better chance of being widely accept as a part of Japan's anime industry more than any donghua garbage will ever be and still it's only an extremely fringe part of it anyways... lol |
ColourWheelYesterday, 2:23 PM
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Reply to TheMechaManiac
@Fukoku
1. As I said, it's isolated or mostly a clapback. Very rarely it's actually saying somebody's not welcome in the fanbase, and that's usually a serious indicator when the fanbase unironically says somebody's not welcome.
2. Listen, I personally haven't seen blacks get so much rag for white cosplays. Perhaps it's because I don't care all that much about cosplays. But back in the earlier days it was the opposite.
When it comes to the One Piece casting or the Disney Percy Jackson show, this matches what I said. People don't like corporate DEI policy - both Netflix and Disney happen to be one of the biggest DEI pushers in the industry. I don't think the majority of the people rag on the actresses themselves and what you see are the exceptions rather than the rule. Rachel Zegler was deservedly ragged on because she outright hated on the fanbase. Those two, on the other hand? Hard doubt. People are sick of forced quotas, nothing more nothing less, and individuals not defining boundaries when it comes to dissatisfaction doesn't confirm a rule.
Don't know about the manga but the game and the show especially deservedly got hate - they were garbage that does the same mistake most woke media today does. White people bad, colored people good. No nuance, no ifs, no buts. And as I said the people unironically got sick and tired of this.
3. Fetishization in anime and manga never hurts anybody because the characters don't exist in the first place. And I don't think I've ever seen literally anybody complain about cultural depictions in the fandom.
1. As I said, it's isolated or mostly a clapback. Very rarely it's actually saying somebody's not welcome in the fanbase, and that's usually a serious indicator when the fanbase unironically says somebody's not welcome.
2. Listen, I personally haven't seen blacks get so much rag for white cosplays. Perhaps it's because I don't care all that much about cosplays. But back in the earlier days it was the opposite.
When it comes to the One Piece casting or the Disney Percy Jackson show, this matches what I said. People don't like corporate DEI policy - both Netflix and Disney happen to be one of the biggest DEI pushers in the industry. I don't think the majority of the people rag on the actresses themselves and what you see are the exceptions rather than the rule. Rachel Zegler was deservedly ragged on because she outright hated on the fanbase. Those two, on the other hand? Hard doubt. People are sick of forced quotas, nothing more nothing less, and individuals not defining boundaries when it comes to dissatisfaction doesn't confirm a rule.
Don't know about the manga but the game and the show especially deservedly got hate - they were garbage that does the same mistake most woke media today does. White people bad, colored people good. No nuance, no ifs, no buts. And as I said the people unironically got sick and tired of this.
3. Fetishization in anime and manga never hurts anybody because the characters don't exist in the first place. And I don't think I've ever seen literally anybody complain about cultural depictions in the fandom.
| @TheMechaManiac 1. Fair. 2. Not judging you (I rarely cosplay too) but it's very dominant now. But for it being the opposite, yeah, I don't like that either. Once again, you're missing my point. Doesn't excuse harassing/sending death threats to the actors. There's more than those examples though, like Halle Bailey from the live action Little Mermaid. Rachel Zegler I do not like, and she deserves CRITICISM, not harassment. Not death threats. Be upset at the company, not the actors/actresses who took up the roles. Also, really? You criticize me for using the buzzword "racist", then you used the buzzword for "woke"? I wasn't even talking about the Ironheart show itself, I don't care for it. But the fact that it was review bombed before it even released, says something. Same with South of Midnight. Heck, South of Midnight isn't even about race, so I don't know how you came to the conclusion that it's "white people bad, colored people good". There's only like a few white people in the entire game, most of them are just there. "Woke" is just a buzzword that means anything that even looks somewhat progressive. And I feel like the "anti-woke" audiences don't really mind forced quotas, just when it’s convenient for their biases. Refer to my mention of Scarlet Witch and Genshin Impact. And yes, same applies to the opposite side as well. 3. Yes, it can. Not about characters though. I'm talking about fetishization like RCTA (Race Change To Another) and the active disrespect that tourists give to Japan. (Tourists as in people that actually visit Japan, not the buzzword in the anime community). |
FukokuYesterday, 2:36 PM
| If I had to choose between One Piece and a girlfriend...I think I'll go with One Piece |
Reply to valico
zombie_pegasus said:
You can always tell, though. No matter how much someone tries to imitate the feeling of anime, you can tell it's just an imitation. Fake anime will never be real anime.
You can always tell, though. No matter how much someone tries to imitate the feeling of anime, you can tell it's just an imitation. Fake anime will never be real anime.
Sorry, what is it that classifies anything as "fake anime" in your mind?
zombie_pegasus said:
I think people should be more proud of where they came from, though, and instead of making imitations of foreign industries, just lean into your own country and what makes it special. Anime isn't a badge of honour, it's a country of origin classification. There are great animations from other countries and we shouldn't look down on them for not being anime.
I think people should be more proud of where they came from, though, and instead of making imitations of foreign industries, just lean into your own country and what makes it special. Anime isn't a badge of honour, it's a country of origin classification. There are great animations from other countries and we shouldn't look down on them for not being anime.
And what is this even supposed to mean? Because someone isn't from Japan, but grew up primarily watching anime, learned to draw and animate by learning from their interests, they aren't allowed to make something because it might resemble anime? We can't start saying anything which looks like anime is suddenly "fake anime" because it has big eyes and spiky hair if we're going to refute the idea that those traits are not what defines anime to begin with.
| @valico That's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that people treat foreign shows that vaguely resemble anime as "fake anime" or "Western anime". It's not anime. It can be anime inspired, but it's Western animation. I think people shouldn't slap a foreign label on their stuff. Anime is Japanese. People from other countries can make shows and movies that are similar, but that doesn't make them anime. There will always be signifiers of the country it's made in, and trying to get rid of those and try to accurately pretend to be anime does make it an imitation, but that shouldn't be the goal. People who grew up on anime will often be inspired by it. Early anime was inspired by Western cartoons, but it doesn't mean those are Western cartoons, just inspired by them. People get inspired by the things they consume. If an English author writes a novel inspired by Russian fiction it doesn't make it a Russian novel. Also, if cartoons are separated by the style rather than the country of origin, would that mean something like Panty and Stocking or Ongaku aren't anime because they aren't the default style? Basing "anime" on style rather than country leads you to something like Kitsu where people just have to vote on if they think something is anime or not, which leads to weird results not everyone will agree with. |
zombie_pegasusYesterday, 4:06 PM
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| What do you mean? Anime is an English loanword specifically meaning "japanese animation". It isn't purist - that's the definition. Why would you call something anime if it isn't Japanese? Isn't it insulting to, say, China to say "haha this is anime" instead of using the Chinese word for it? In Japanese, アニメ means any kind of animation - even Spongebob or Tom and Jerry. But we're speaking English, and the loanword specifies that it's an animation from the language the word derives (in this case, Japanese). It seems like you started on a false premise about anime being something more than it actually is. A "genre" or a specific type of medium. It isn't. |
Supreme Seireitei - Captain of the 10th Court Guard Squad  |
Reply to plebrepel
If MAL were purist we would have a distinction between reviews of shows and reviews of their dubs. Mixing them into 1 pool is giving some stupid results.
The same goes for chinese shows and korean shows coming up in search as "anime" when clearly they are not.
The same goes for chinese shows and korean shows coming up in search as "anime" when clearly they are not.
| @plebrepel Agreed. Especially when some dubs can be extremely different (Ghost Stories, for instance - though I'd give both the sub and the dub a 10/10). |
Supreme Seireitei - Captain of the 10th Court Guard Squad |
| I think the "mix" of people within a community plays a factor, too. MAL has a lot of oldheads and the site has certain elements that would cater to a conservative mindset. Namely, like conservatives themselves, it's very slow to change. The site looks ancient by today's standards and a lot of older folks find that comfortable. Policy is also slow to evolve; just look at how long it took to get webtoons on the site and the standards for those are still very rigid compared to other databases. MAL just doesn't feel as welcoming a place to enjoy non-Japanese content. This makes a perfect place for older elitists to gather, so logically they do. Compared to other sites, MAL may be behind the times, but that seems to work for them because the oldheads here never leave. They're comfortable here. Contrast that to Anime-Planet. Healthy mix of young and old, male-to-female ratio feels more balanced, very welcoming to new viewers and LGBT fans. Over there, it feels like new trends are embraced while oldie-but-goodies from the good old days are also still loved. Korean, Chinese, and OEL webtoons are recommended alongside Japanese manga without anyone really giving a crap that it's not Japanese. The difference, I think, is that mix of people. It's very comfortable place for fans who can both embrace change and still honor the past, but it might not be a comfortable place for older conservative fans. Other sites like Anilist and Kitsu also have their own unique mix of people that set the tone in their communities and create their own unique vibe. Every site is its own thing. |
| That's a great argument. I honestly think that most of its users centered their values on Japanese culture. You rarely see people in MAL talk about trends because people here tend to keep it to themselves. The thing is, I want to talk about trends, but it does feel like I'm using the platform as a simple way to keep in touch with my watchlist. Which in hand, already does an excellent job, but I do want more engagement with the community than having to deal with superiority complexes. |
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Reply to ZeroMajor12
That's a great argument. I honestly think that most of its users centered their values on Japanese culture. You rarely see people in MAL talk about trends because people here tend to keep it to themselves. The thing is, I want to talk about trends, but it does feel like I'm using the platform as a simple way to keep in touch with my watchlist. Which in hand, already does an excellent job, but I do want more engagement with the community than having to deal with superiority complexes.
ZeroMajor12 said: The thing is, I want to talk about trends, but it does feel like I'm using the platform as a simple way to keep in touch with my watchlist. Which in hand, already does an excellent job, but I do want more engagement with the community than having to deal with superiority complexes. I feel this to a certain extent, but I think the rest of the anime watching community at large is talking about it, but there's no central "Home of Anime". Instead you have every single discord server that is a copy paste of the same channels over and over. One of those channels will be anime. In every discord server. Change my mind. The forum experience has been dead for a long time so I'm mostly using MAL as an automated watchlist tracker (ty MAL for the API). If you want to talk about anime to a big anime community, the MAL discord is probably a good place to start. |
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Reply to HughMungis
ZeroMajor12 said:
The thing is, I want to talk about trends, but it does feel like I'm using the platform as a simple way to keep in touch with my watchlist. Which in hand, already does an excellent job, but I do want more engagement with the community than having to deal with superiority complexes.
The thing is, I want to talk about trends, but it does feel like I'm using the platform as a simple way to keep in touch with my watchlist. Which in hand, already does an excellent job, but I do want more engagement with the community than having to deal with superiority complexes.
I feel this to a certain extent, but I think the rest of the anime watching community at large is talking about it, but there's no central "Home of Anime". Instead you have every single discord server that is a copy paste of the same channels over and over. One of those channels will be anime. In every discord server. Change my mind.
The forum experience has been dead for a long time so I'm mostly using MAL as an automated watchlist tracker (ty MAL for the API). If you want to talk about anime to a big anime community, the MAL discord is probably a good place to start.
| @HughMungis That is very true. you can easily find people anywhere on social platforms talking about anime, but in MAL, it's strangely deserted. |
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