| @inim @whiteflame55 @filifjonkan @RandomFriday @Antalk @jdvz @JokerVentura @KainiusTheGreat @ruckes @kekekeKaj @OrlahEhontas @cipheron @botnetMAL New group watch for The Heroic Legend of Arslan (2015) starting Friday 24th May.  |
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| Thanks for creating the thread :) |
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| Episode 1 The initial battle scene looks pretty good considering the shifts from 2D to 3D. The buildings look Persian and that tracks since this takes place in ancient Persia (in the early 300s, probably ACE), though they call themselves Parsians. In general, the series looks pretty great so far. The character models remind me of FMA: Brotherhood. We're introduced to Prince Arslan from a young age. We get some idea of what the people around him are like, including his swordmaster Vahriz who is harsh but fair, Kishward the falconer who seems part bird himself with that haircut, and his mother who seems rather short with him (and with his father later - not a lot of love there). His father, the King, has a face that looks carved from stone and seems about as loving. He returns from war with a young boy from Lusitania who looks to be about Arslan's age. This kid is a beast in a fight and even ends up taking Arslan hostage, though he clearly doesn't want to kill him. Turns out he's a bit of a religious zealot, and also a zealot for equality. Kid ahead of his time. Kind of amazing how easily they evade the soldiers chasing them until, you know, they dive straight off the ramparts into the moat. Arslan makes it back in one piece while the child soldier rides off on a stolen horse. In general, Arslan shows a kind nature unlike his parents. He asks that the three kids who released the captive are not harmed. He even pleads for the life of the boy who captured took him hostage. When he finds out that the slavers killed the remaining slaves because they were unruly, he's crestfallen. He moves on from it surprisingly quickly and starts talking about how his father's going to live for a long time, totally not ominously. He's definitely going to live more than 3 years... Anyway, Arslan's going to war at that time for some reason. I'm pretty fond of the music in the OP. The artwork and scenes depicted are pretty solid as well. In general, I'm enjoying the OST on this one, solid music throughout that really elevates every scene it occupies. Looking forward to this one, seems like a solid setup. |
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| @filifjonkan I don't speak a second language (tiny bit of French which I learned at school and during summer holidays) so can only imagine how difficult it must be to jot down your thoughts in English. For thinkworthy I would probably use the phrase 'thought provoking' or stimulating. I often write as I'm watching, but sometimes if I'm watching on the big tv then I write up afterwards and it's not always easy to condense your thoughts as by the time the ep finishes I've forgotten what happened at the beginning, lol. Episode 1. This show is dubbed on Netflix so easy to watch for me this time. Apparently the story behind this show and the source material was written in 1986 and loosely based on a collection of Persian folktales. Last really good fantasy series I saw based in Persia/Middle East was Magi, and that's very good (I can see neither of you have seen Magi yet, it's basically an aladdin/sinbad anime with genies, magic and battles, highly recommend). The opening scene does display a good blend of 3D and 2D shots during the wide tracking shots of the battle, something that So I'm A Spider, So What, completely failed at. Arslan's mum, the queen, does seem like a cold fish, nice breasts though. Arslan is captured by an escaped Lusitanian child soldier, Etoile, and they run through the city. Etoile is impressed by the prosperity and wealth of Pars, people seem happy and food in abundance, however, he points out that they use slaves, which Lusitania and it's religion abhors and thus the people of Pars must be barbarians and can justifiably be killed for their actions. From the brief interaction we witness between the king and queen my guess would be it's a political marriage of convenience and Tahamine, the queen, is none too pleased with her situation, as she appears to have disdain for both the king and her son Arslan. Maybe she comes from another country so isn't from Pars? Looks like things are about to change up next ep. Opening ep reminds me of Yona of the Dawn but in a different setting, ie prince/ss in privileged position suddenly has everything taken away and has to go on the run. Initial impression, i like the vibe and setting, OST and visuals look good. |
23feanorMay 24, 6:21 AM
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| @23feanor Yep, the queen sure has quite the bodice. Episode 2 I like the choice of starting the episode with Arslan back in training with Vahriz. He was on the defensive last time, but he seems far more even with him now. Pretty quickly downshift into war, with Arslan and his father riding to face the enemy. @filifjonkan you're right that the Lusitania was a ship sunk by a German torpedo, but that was actually during WW1. I'm not sure what empire they're supposed to represent here. I thought the OP was at the end of the last episode, but a new one plays out here, so that must have been the ED (can confirm). I like the music in the ED more, but the visuals are more dynamic and interesting here. The CGI is pretty hit-or-miss this episode. I don't think it works quite as well with the falcon, mainly due to compositing with the 2D elements, whereas the marching and charging soldiers look pretty good. One of the commanders under the King, Daryun, tries to convince him to tactically retreat from the plain, worried about traps set in a dense fog, but because of ideological and perceptual differences, he's threatened and beaten by his uncle Vahriz before being put on the front lines, swearing his loyalty to Arslan on his uncle's wishes. Yep, this will go well. Nothing ominous here. The charge begins... and the soldiers quickly find that Daryun was right, as they find themselves at the edge of and falling into a pit full of oil that quickly erupts in fire. Considering all the scouting they did ahead, I don't know how they missed this, but I guess the fog was just too thick. They find themselves outflanked by archers on mobile platforms and spearmen who make quick work of their cavalry. Arslan fights for his life and ends up killing an enemy soldier. Kid's got skills, but clearly wasn't ready to take a life or lose his soldiers. He's quickly left largely alone among the corpses... until he's found by Kharlan, a commander for his army who has clearly turned traitor. I initially wasn't sure what you meant to when you mentioned a "fifth-colonner" @filifjonkan, so I looked it up. The term is a fifth column, a group of people who undermine their country or organization from within. Seems about right, though it's usually more of an organized group. Arslan fends off Kharlan, and as a one-man army, Daryun quickly demolishes enemy soldiers in swaths around him as he arrives on the scene. The relationship between Arslan and the King definitely evokes something similar to Canute and Sweyn from Vinland Saga. They even make note of how Arslan takes after his mother, and I recall them saying something similar about Canute. Wonder if Arslan will develop in a similar direction. |
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| @filifjonkan one of the sailing youtubers we watch has a Swedish wife and when they went to visit the grandma in Sweden he learnt the funniest Swedish translations for certain words. Can't recall many but think the literal translation for the cupboard/fridge was 'stinky box' as that was where the cheese and fish are kept, and mother in law is 'shouty rude lady', lol. I like 'thinkworthy', ie a subject that is worthy of spending ones time thinking about. And yes as @whiteflame55 already mentioned the Lusitania was a passenger ship that was torpedoed by a German sub during WW1 and caused the German's a lot of international condemnation (most importantly for the war effort the ire of America, which at that time was still neutral) as there were passengers from all over the world onboard, including American's. It was partly this action (and sinking US merchant vessels) and the petitions of the French and British govt's that led to America joining the war in 1917, sending men and munitions. Episode 2. So Arslan has had a glow up since ep 1 and is now more proficient with a sword. I know this is a work of fiction loosely based on some past events, or folktales of those events, but I wonder if any of the kings/kingdoms/battles are based on real events. Looking on google Parsa was the name of a Persian city founded by Darius I, who I've watched documentaries about, and which the Greeks called Persepolis. I love history, and the ancient Persians, Babylonians, Sumerians and peoples' of the middle/near/far east is very interesting. The 3 boys we saw saved by Arslan last ep are now his loyal retainers. Agree with you both about the king, he sounds like a fool for deciding to fight in unfavourable conditions. When I think on great generals my first thoughts go to Caesar and Wellington, both of whom knew when to fight and when to retreat. Only fight when the odds are in your favour, or if you have no option but to fight (ie Dunkirk). If Napoleon hadn't forced the issue at Waterloo, he probably wouldn't have lost his army, although the Prussians marching through the day and arriving at the battlefield late afternoon was the nail in the coffin. Napoleon always berated his generals, each of whom lost to Wellington, saying that Wellington wasn't a good general as all he ever did was find strategic ground like a hill and stay there. Caesar was equally wily, although when his back was to the wall he made some brilliant decisions like that at Alesia against the Gauls. Good spot @whiteflame55, the relationship between Arslan and his father is very similar to the way Canute's dad treated him. Arslan and Canute are both good looking as teenagers and their dad's thought they took after their mothers and weren't fit for battle or to rule. Canute's dad ended up being very wrong, wonder how Arslan will turn out. I wonder if the queen is from a neighbouring country and so both his dad and mum view his a mongrel, neither a noble of Pars or from the queen's homeland. The way Vahriz ponders Arslan's feature and resemblance to his mother the queen makes me wonder whether there's some question over his legitimacy, is he not actually his fathers son? After being rebuked by the king Daryun swears fealty to Arslan. That trench the cavalry falls into is huge, no way the scouts wouldn't have seen it (or maybe they did and the info was concealed from the king). So Carlan, the king's righthand man was a traitor and working for the Lusitanian's. I also have never come across the term 'fifth column', although am familiar with the tactic of embedding a group, usually mercenaries without your enemies army who then turn the tables in a battle at a crucial moment in both historical and fictional settings (LotR and GoT have used this idea). Carlan is intent on killing Arslan but Daryun rises to his rescue scything his way through the enemy ranks. We end as he arrives. OP and ED are both bangers. |
23feanorMay 25, 4:11 AM
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| @23feanor I hadn't thought about how their conversation was implying that Arslan might not be the King's flesh and blood. It certainly would explain why he's been so cold to him. Episode 3 Daryun's reckless charge quickly puts him in combat with Kharlan and his men. He even asks if he "turned his cloak" - I've heard of a turncoat before, but but I guess turncloak works just as well. Turns out, Kharlan's advice for Daryun before the battle was tailored toward this exact outcome, with the aim of getting Daryun out of his command. I don't know why Daryun was specifically required to see the giant gaping hole in the ground, but clearly the other commanders need glasses or... I guess they might just trust their scouts too readily. Love that Daryun just doesn't give a shit when Kharlan tries to explain himself. Dude tried to kill Arslan and caused the deaths of many soldiers. I wouldn't listen to him monologue, either. Kharlan ends up retreating. Nice to see Vahriz (he's the general) more carefully convince the King to retreat. The King clearly does have at least a desire to protect the Queen that supersedes his pride. Nice to see some humanity under that gruff exterior. The traitors are still running around in the army, though, using the opportunity to paint the King as a coward. It's kind of frustrating because you'd think that the king would use multiple avenues to deliver the info about the retreat to his forces, but I guess getting rid of a couple of messengers is enough to impede that. That results in arguments between commanders who automatically believe the shouts of the king's betrayal. Honestly... I don't buy this. You'd think these guys would at least confirm the King's abandonment of them before making any big decisions like abandoning the battlefield, which could get them executed. Nice to see at least a couple of the commanders try to restore order, though. Speaking of the King, as they're retreating, they are ambushed in a hail of arrows, with both him and Vahriz being struck, but surviving. I guess their scouts fell down on the job there, too. They're approached by a man in a mask who appeared briefly at the start of the episode surrounded by fire. Vahriz showcases his considerable talent with a sword before getting absolutely bodied by the masked man who literally cuts through his sword and apparently his helm before striking down the King. Meanwhile, Arslan and Daryun aim to escape safely, learning about the King's retreat, but not about the ambush. They seek help from a friend of Daryun's, a man named Narsus who is an exile. He's a painter, which Daryun characterizes as a "failing", which seems to be a commentary on the quality of his work. They don't get the warmest welcome, but they do seem like old friends. Crazily enough, the Pars soldiers literally charge through fire to keep attacking the Lusitanians, but they still lose the battle, with over 100,000 deaths on their side to the Lusitanians' 50,000. We get some idea of regret on the Lusitanian side, particularly from Montferrat, who sees their mission as righteous but their methods as profane. |
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| @whiteflame55 it was one comment Vahriz made about how Arslan appears more like his mother then he adds something about Arslan not seeming/looking/acting like his father's son, and then Vahriz looks down and ponders. Could be a throw away comment, or be mere speculation, but usually when a character makes a comment like this there's something behind it. Although in Canute's case no one ever suggested he was illegitimate (that I can remember), people just thought he looked feminine and like his beautiful mother and therefore wouldn't be a successful warrior. Episode 3. Apparently the origins of the terms turncoat and turncloak are similar, from medieval battles when a noble would change the coat of arms on their shields/cloaks/banners. It's always funny when someone refuses to let a villain finish their monologue and simply attacks. I didn't catch what Khalan was saying as his reason for betrayal, something about Androgoras not being the rightful king, not sure why though. Maybe it's about his use of slaves in Pars, I can believe that would be a suitable motivation for someone to betray him. It does seem an unlikely series of events leading to the king's downfall and breakdown of order amongst the army, however, from every historical account of battles I've encountered, they seem like highly charged events where a mere whisper of defeat, or simple act of courage can rally or rout one side or the other and Kahlan's unit seem to have been ready to sow discord and misinformation in the chaos. It sounds like there's a strong religious sentiment in the Lusitanian army and a core reason for their fighting against the 'heathen' Pars kingdom. The king is dead, his army routed and scattered so Daryun takes Arslan to recover with an old friend and fellow exile, Narsus. |
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| @23feanor I see your point. They mention it again this episode and I do think it's more than a throw-away comment. @filifjonkan Didn't know that about a farsang, nice catch. Episode 4 We get a clearer idea of what kind of person Narsus is, and apparently (at least based on Arslan's perspective), his art leaves... something to be desired. Narsus used to be pretty high ranking in the kingdom of Pars and instrumental in preventing an invasion by an alliance of three kingdoms using the power of effective and damaging rumors, but he also freed all his slaves and numerous prisoners of war, so his personal ethics run counter to many of his countrymen. Narsus shows manners and deference towards Arslan, though he clearly isn't taking orders. Meanwhile, Elam, his servant, appears none too keen about Arslan's presence, particularly when Arslan tries to help out in the kitchen. It gets a little strange when they start arguing over whether Narsus's art is good. It's a good bit of levity, but it also seems odd given the gravity of the situation. Narsus doesn't offer to come with and assist them, but he does offer advice, saying somewhat cryptically that abolishing slavery in the kingdom might have saved them. Eventually, Kharlan's men catch up to them. Turns out, Daryun practically invited this to drag Narsus into this. What they did not expect was to be told of Vahriz's death or the effort to recruit Narsus their cause. He refuses rather bluntly, they charge him, and... a trap door opens in the floor, dumping them into a full of some unknown liquid. Then Narsus and company just leave them there while they eat breakfast, even using an empty plate to stymie their efforts to climb out. Narsus is a boss. Arslan knows how to recruit him as well, offering him a position as "court painter." It's a bit absurd, but Narsus is taken with him, and ends up pledging his support to Arslan. |
whiteflame55May 26, 8:57 PM
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| Episode 4. Arslan and Daryun sit down to eat with Narsus and Arslan learns more about him, and so do we. I like the little touches around Narsus's home, the artwork, furnishings and decoration. Narsus has an ideological opposition to slavery and freed all his slaves, which drastically reduced his households fighting force. To make up for the lack of troops he was able to muster for the kings army he employs a cunning plan. You're right @whiteflame55, there's a discussion between Daryun and Narsus where Daryun observes how Arslan's temperament is nothing like that of his father, and how queen Tahamine kept Arslan at arms length, and how she was indulged by the king. Could it be a case where maybe Tahamine was already pregnant whenever she met the king, or was she a freed slave perhaps, and she leaned on the king persuading him to keep Arslan and raise him as his own (there's a greek tale where something similar happened and the queen raised the son to usurp his father as she was playing the long game). Kahlan's men come to visit Narsus looking for Daryun and the prince. No coincidence as Daryun took a route past Kahlan's castle thus drawing his attention. Put in a pinch Narsus helps Daryun and the prince out of the predicament. Who has a massive trap door and pit of water in their living room, well this strategist for one. I liked the more light hearted banter this ep, felt like the show is trying to lighten the mood a little after a lot of drama and heavy subject matters. |
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| @23feanor I think it's nice to see the series take a bit more of a relaxed tone, even if it feels a little strange given the events that immediately preceded it. It does go a long way toward demonstrating the kind of person Narsus is and how he is likely to affect the story going forward, as well as his banter with Daryun being a welcome bit of levity. Good reference to Blackadder, btw. As for how this all worked out with Tahimine and Arslan, I'm going to go with the view that Arslan is the result of a love affair that went wrong in a big way, likely ending with Andragoras or someone in his retinue killing her suitor. That would explain why Tahimine is so cold toward Arslan - he reminds her of that love while standing for the same royal power that destroyed it. Episode 5 Elam ends up coming along with Narsus, Daryun and Arslan, chiefly for his exceptional cooking, apparently. The men they captured apparently spent a great deal of time in the pit, but do make it out after their horses have been stolen. Narsus, ever the strategist, hides his group in a cave to avoid coming into contact with Kharlan while drawing their attention elsewhere. It becomes clear that he's acting as advisor to Arslan at this point, encouraging him to see his potential rule and the battlefield differently. Meanwhile, information is slowly disseminating about the lost battle and the siege of the capital by the Lusitanian soldiers. Everyone at the capital seems incredulous that they could have lost the battle, which I find strange. So no one made it back before the giant column of soldiers? It turns out they also have a captive, one of the commanders from the battlefield, who they plan to torture in front of the city gates. He'd prefer to just die, and even asks the archers on the wall to kill him. While he is well out of range for most archers, it turns out there is someone on the wall who can manage it, a hooded figure who strikes him directly in the forehead. This is Gieve, a musician, warrior and charlatan who pretends he's foreign royalty. He has a smooth tongue, to be sure. He's rewarded for his actions and music, though it's clear Tahimine isn't impressed with him. The siege begins. Nice to see those trebuchets and siege towers in action. The Pars defense holds them off quite easily for now, but with the threat of slaves within the city rising up, the city could soon fall. A solid strategy that quickly finds purchase. |
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| @whiteflame55 I think your suggestion could be the most likely. Tahamine had a lover, the king found out and killed him/had him killed, Tahamine had a child, Arslan, and there's some ambiguity over his father. With women's intuition she likely knows it's the lovers child (I recently watched Domina S2 and there was a whole subplot about how Roman women could sleep with their husbands but made efforts to ensure they didn't get pregnant by them; expunging/cold water and lemon juice, plus avoiding dangerous days. Cersei in GoT said the same about getting pregnant, making sure she took steps to ensure Robert didn't get her with child when they had sex thus allowing Jamie to be the father of her kids), but there's a chance it could be the kings. So Arslan is a reminder of the dead lover for both the king and Tahamine. The king must be infatuated with her for this to work, but sounds like he is. Episode 5. Arslan and his newly formed band of Daryun, Narsus and Elam head to a remote cave in the mountains to gather themselves and seek information. Narsus ponders who is really behind this well formed scheme to take down Pars and it's king. We get a flashback to Kahlan's words to Arslan about his betrayal of the king which I didn't catch at the time 'there are unfortunate circumstances that are not your fault, but nevertheless mean you must die here today'. I wonder whether this ties into the question of Arslan's true father. If people in the court were aware of what happened between Tahamine and her lover then they believe Arslan is not a legitimate heir. And if the lover were a slave/freed slave or noble from another country then that would make things even more precarious for Arslan as he could be viewed as not being a true born prince of Pars. In such a scenario I could see court nobles banding together to get rid of the king and Arslan, using the pretence of Arslan's lineage to further their own goals. The Lusitanian have a religion worshipping Yaldaboath, which I had to look up. I've heard the name Yaldaboath but didn't know it was a god or 'demiurge' (being that created the universe, also had to look one up). Apparently Yaldaboath is a chaotic demiurge and precipitates suffering upon the world. Not sure why anyone would worship such a god. A mysterious archer kills a captured general who the Lusitanian's were planning on torturing within sight of the walls of the capital. He's quite s smooth talker 'i didn't lie, but tried to give you a dream for one night that would have become a sweet memory', lol. We can see from the manner in which she comports herself that Tahamine wields power and respect within the court in her husbands absence. So far no infighting or squabbling or anxious nobles considering opening the gates and surrendering hoping to save their own skins and fortunes. Narsus makes a very astute point about encouraging the slaves within to open the gates and earn their freedom. The queen should make the same offer and free all slaves on the spot as it'd only take a couple of determined men to arrange for the gates to be opened during an attack. Good OST and sound direction. Same sound director who did Mushoku Tensei and Re: Zero. |
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| @23feanor I didn't realize it was the same sound director. Certainly doing a great job this time around, as with those series. And yeah, I think your comparison to GoT is apt. Seems like a similar situation is shaping up. Also, appreciate your looking into Yaldaboath. I guess the idea is that, by worshipping this god, he will punish their enemies rather than them. Doesn't seem like a positive angle to take, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the view. I read the Wiki on this particular god and it appears to come from pretty crazy origins, spinning off originally from the Egyptian god Seth, the donkey-headed god of deserts, storms, disorder, and violence. Wasn't commonly worshipped by the Egyptians, but Gnostics (basically, Jews and early Christians who split off from the central faith) picked it up and ran with it, slowly shifting the focus to Yaldaboath. That's very surface-level, but it's an interesting read. Episode 6 With the slaves rebelling, at minimum, work comes to a halt in the city and everyone in the city now has to be on constant alert to prevent violence. At most, this could quickly spiral out of control. There's no really good response, but freeing them would probably be the best choice... or maybe offering freedom in return for repelling the Lusitanians? At least then, they've got a reason to fight for you against a force they cannot be sure will help them. Threatening them with physical violence certainly won't work, but they try it anyway. The Lusitanians go even further, posting the heads of the dead generals and commanders in front of the city, though notably the King's head is absent. The Queen doesn't ask whether her son's head is out there. Yeah, something's up between them. So, needless to say, they call the slaves "ungrateful bastards" ("be happy we let you live doing hard labor for us without any choice!") and trample and slash them. The slaves are revolting (rude - they look perfectly pleasant to me), and though the Queen initially rejects the idea, one of her commanders suggests they pay off the slaves and guarantee better treatment. At least someone gets it, even if she doesn't. Gieve seems to understand his situation well, too, when he's tasked with bringing the Queen to safety through secret passages. Guess she's not as certain of their victory at this point and doesn't care to try anything new, though I have a hard time believing that they're this trusting of Gieve. Since the "Queen" is covered head to toe, I doubted it was actually her even before she was unveiled. This is a distraction, with the aim of having Gieve and this young woman (a lady-in-waiting who is not afraid to hit below the belt) die while the actual Queen escapes. The man in the mask finds them quite easily, apparently falling for the trick along with Kharlan and breaking her neck in frustration. Gieve proves quite the combatant when pressured, keeping up with his opponent's strong swordsmanship and even burning him a bit with his oil lamp (the response of the man in the mask suggests this is not the first time he's been burned - the scar under his mask may be a testament to that). The masked man retreats with Kharlan and Gieve makes quick work of the rest, robbing their corpses to boot. Meanwhile, Narsus plots how to deal with Kharlan. At the walls, the siege is finding purchase with the help of both the slave uprising and Kharlan's invasion through the aqueducts, and even the palace itself is ablaze. Commanders begin to fall as the gates open. The city is quickly overrun. |
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| Episode 6. Offering the slaves freedom for assisting in the defence of the city would be a great idea, gives them a stake in the city and a personal reward. We can only imgaine, but any disgruntled or mistreated slave may avidly hope for the downfall of the kingdom that enslaved them, whether actively assisting in a rebellion or passively sitting back and not helping out with the defence. The ol heads on a spike treatment, gruesome. As you point out @whiteflame55, very telling that the queen doesn't ask about Arslan but only the king. Usually most mothers would be desperate for word of their child and whether they lived, even the courtiers find it strange she doesn't ask after him. Wonder if the king is dead, or just captured? Surprise to no one the slaves start rebelling. I watched a documentary a while ago and in it the author was trying to convey that slavery has existed since time immemorial (every single ancient civilization had some form of slavery, except a few groups like the Australian Aborigines, although even some small Polynesian islands had some indentured servitude for the losing side in a inter tribe war), and was just a normal form of how society was structured for many peoples. So it's very hard for us to appreciate just how ingrained slavery was, and what a wild concept having a free society would have been to some people. Even then, as a human, being treated badly wouldn't be nice and you would want it to end and despise anyone who put you into slavery and wish for their downfall. Gieve is tasked with escorting the 'queen' (yeah it was obvious from the start it wasn't her) out of the city. Narsus really sounds like he knows what he's talking about when he says now is the time for a precision attack against Kahlan personally, rather than worrying about what 4 men can do in the fight for the capital. The fake queen (voiced by my personal fave Colleen Clinkenbeard, I never tire of her voice, any VA, Japanese or english that you guys love hearing?) is cornered by Kahlan and a masked man who doesn't seem very happy with the king, queen and Pars in general, and unmasked. The fake queen is unceremoniously killed by masked dude and then Gieve taunts him for killing a beautiful woman before retreating. The OST is really good, especially during the dramatic action moments like in the tunnel with the fake queen. So the capital is taken and the pieces on the board are moving as the narrator says. Where is the real queen, what happened to the king, and who is the buxom raven haired beauty riding on a horse in the preview? Just reading my own comments back and realised I've been unconsciously spelling 'Khalan' as 'Kahlan', who is one of my favourite characters in the Sword of Truth novels (the Mother Confessor herself and wife of Richard Rahl, the Seeker of Truth and Lord of the D'Haran Empire and War Wizard, god I loved those books) and played by Bridget Reagan in the Legend of the Seeker tv series, who is so hot |
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| @23feanor Definitely got at least a couple of VAs I'd put in that camp. Maaya Sakamoto, Mamoru Miyano, and Aoi Yuuki are the ones that come to mind, just love their work and they're consistently the stand-out VAs of their series. Episode 6 We finally meet the opposing king, Innocentis the Seventh. Dude bears no resemblance at all to Andragoras, looking far more pampered. No wonder he wasn't on the battlefield, likely functioning far more as a figurehead. The man in the mask (his character is literally named "Silver Mask," so SM from now on) appears to care little for the Lusitanians, viewing them as a means to an end. I had assumed that the Queen had escaped, but she's brought in in short order. We learn a bit of her history, if only by rumor: she was proposed to a grand vizier of another country, was stolen away by a lord (the grand vizier committed suicide), and was subsequently captured by Pars (the lord falling to his death). Andragoras and his elder brother fought over her, the younger winning out in the end. So yes, she was a prize to be won - no wonder she didn't love Andragoras. As for the father of Arslan, that narrows the window down to a few options. Guessing it's the grand vizier and that his death (and the stealing away of Tahamine) was orchestrated by Pars if not by Andragoras himself. Looks like Tahamine is going to now be married to Innocentis, so she continues to be passed along, though the king's brother Guiscard strongly objects. The Lusitanians establish themselves as the new power in town. Etoile reappears among their ranks, searching for the slaves that were brought in with him (they were killed, so no chance of that). He finds himself in combat with a spy dressed as a woman - Elam in disguise. His task becomes all the more difficult when he's confronted by the slaves the Lusitanians promised to free if they took the city. Needless to say, they have far less incentive to do that now, but Etoile appears to wish they did. Kharlan strikes out with a substantial force of thousands to hunt down Arslan. Narsus rightly assumes that Kharlan will commit war crimes to draw out Arslan, and Arslan commits to stop him. Gieve stumbles upon the raven-haired woman named Falangies traveling alone in her very revealing outfit and "rescues her" (she seriously didn't need the help) from the Lusitanian soldiers. She doesn't seem particularly thankful or impressed with him. Turns out, she's an emissary from a temple to find Arslan. So, needless to say, these two will be joining Arslan's gang soon. |
whiteflame55May 29, 6:48 PM
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| @whiteflame55 don't know the first two so well, but Aoi Yuuki and Inori Minase (Hestia in Danmachi, Rem in Re:Zero, Aurora in Sleepy Princess, and Chino in GochiUsa) are two that I always look out for and will sometimes pick up a show if they are the MC. Just noticed that Inori Minase plays the MC in My Love Story with Yamada-kun at Lv999 so will be picking that one up subbed. I watched the dub of Girls Last Tour and didn't notice Inori Minase plays one of the leads and keep meaning to go back and watch it subbed just to listen to her play the role. Episode 7. So the queen didn't escape via another route. Silver Mask is likely an ex slave or exiled noble from Pars with a grudge against either the king or country is my best guess at this point. He doesn't seem to think much of the Lusitanian's either. Also has another masked figure which he spoke to, so maybe he has an intelligence network. The king of Lusitania looks like a pampered fop, complete opposite of Androgoras. We get the backstory for Tahamine and yeah looks like she's been treated as a beautiful prize to be won her whole life due to her looks, you feel sorry for her. It sounds like she was betrothed to the vizier then was 'won' over by a lord, who basically stole his senior's woman, so my best guess is that she liked the lord and willingly chose him, maybe getting pregnant in the process, hence the vizier taking his own life over the shame of his betrothed being stolen by a junior. And was then captured by Androgoras and his brother who fought over her. If Androgoras was willing to kill his brother over her (and the throne) then he likely wouldn't have quibbled over the fact she was already pregnant, especially since they captured her. And maybe he didn't kill Arslan out of a fear of displeasing her. Funny (disquieting is a better phrase) the extents to which men will go for a pretty face and full bosom. Or maybe Tahamine arranged the deaths of vizier, lord and elder brother and is much more dangerous than she appears. And to be expected, king Innocentis decides on the spot to make Tahamine his queen after laying eyes on her. Couldn't he just make her a concubine? Makes me think Androgoras is dead. The way Innocentis and his brother talk about the fates of her previous partners makes me think maybe there's more to Tahamine than meets the eye and she simply uses what she's got, beauty and allure, to the best of her ability, manipulating men. We get a glimpse of factions with Lusitania between the kings group (ones who want the treasure) led by his brother and the religious group (one who the king says all the treasure is going to be given to, much to the annoyance of the brother and soldiers). Then you have Silver Mask telling the brother that he is the real power behind the throne and all the subjects know him to be the true ruler. Honeyed words. SM also mentioned that there's no chance of Tahamine giving king Innocentis an heir, small comment, but what does he know about her? Did she suffer a complication giving birth to Arslan that made her unable to bear children again and that's why she treated Arslan so coolly, because she feels he robbed her of a chance to give Androgoras a true born heir? We see Etolie again looking his lost comrades taken as slaves. Then we see Elam, who makes a fetching girl, infiltrating the city to get info. We see that Silver Mask gives direction to the Guiscard as an adviser and was instructing Khalan, so maybe SM is the player behind the scenes that Narsus is looking for. There are rumours king Androgoras went missing, although we know he was ambushed by Khalan, so maybe SM is keeping Androgoras alive for some reason. Gieve meets Falagies (strange name, pronounced 'Farangis' in the dub) on the road and tries to 'rescue' her, but as you say @whiteflame55, doesn't look like she needed any help. Falagies is a disciple of a temple if Mithras, interesting, they have some strange customs and some dark appeal which found it's way to Rome as they have uncovered more than a few ruins and temples dedicated to Mithras in and around Rome. The ED reminds me of another, not sure which, maybe Utena. I hate it when one OP/ED reminds you of another from the many, many shows I've seen and I have no idea which, but it still bugs me when I hear the opening line of this ED. |
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| I thought the group would start this Friday. Since I was wrong, I started watching yesterday and today I caught up to the seventh episode. What I have to say. I really proud of you, guys, the burden is heavy and the way out is far. I can't help you along the way, but I will follow your discussion. |
| Glad you could join us in our watch @jdvz. @23feanor Mamoru Miyano is the Japanese voice behind Okabe Rintarou from Steins;Gate and Light Yagami from Death Note, and Maaya Sakamoto is known for her work on The Major from Ghost in the Shell and Akashi from The Tatami Galaxy. Fun fact: she's in this series too, as newcomer Falangies (I'll stick with that spelling - interesting that they essentially called her "fingers" with a different pronunciation). I'm a fan of Inori Minase as well. Episode 8 Apparently, Falangies was sent for this mission partially to be rid of her (the other priests couldn't match her swagger - guessing they didn't like that breezy outfit, either). Gieve really lays it on thick with the flirting, though I'll admit I agree with his choices of darker hair and eye color. Falangies communes with the djinn, who apparently whisper on the wind. The two of them stumble upon Kharlan and his forces and follow them in search of Arslan. Narsus manages to trick Kharlan into following a dangerous road to the north, preparing to capture Kharlan. Falangies and Gieve join them in short order (I appreciate that their clash is short before everything is explained), and using Arslan as bait, they are able to easily take down many of Kharlan's soldiers as they try to scale the canyon walls around them. It's pretty embarrassing how easily Kharlan's forces are defeated and pushed to retreat in terror. Kharlan and a few of his men seem willing to keep up the fight, but Kharlan soon faces Daryun and is separated from his forces and defeated by the better fighter. Kharlan hints that Arslan would be worse off knowing why he defected, so I guess we remain in suspense on that score... and it looks like that will continue as Kharlan, in defeat, rolls over his own spearhead and impales himself ion the chest. Honestly, kind of a silly way to go. Despite probably having a punctured lung or two, he is able to tell us some important details. Andragoras still lives and the throne apparently never belonged to him. Like Lelouche in Code Geass, Arslan cannot order Kharlan to live (several inches of steel buried in his chest do make it difficult), and he perishes. Falangis and Gieve join their ranks in earnest, with Falangis also showcasing her considerable singing talent to send off their murdered foes. Love that Daryun takes Narsus seriously when he says they might have to face 50,000 men apiece. Dude's a beast. We get an addendum after the credits on this one where we see Andragoras meeting SM in his cell. SM is actually Andragoras's nephew, the son of his elder brother, and thus the inheritor of the kingship of Pars. Not super surprised, since it fits his motivations. Andragoras seems to find it hilarious. |
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| @jdvz good to have you along, the burden is indeed heavy, lol Episode 8. It's funny in the opening scenes whilst Falagies (whenever I spell or hear her name I think of the word 'phalange' and that scene from Friends where Phoebe says there's something wrong with the left phalange lol) is speaking Gieve's eyes and the camera only focus on Falagies's bare thighs and ample bosom. You can see where his attention clearly lies. I imagine Falagies looks like Salma Hayek in Dusk Till dawn and Tahamine like a buxom version of January Jones. Another small comment from Falagies about how a generous donation was made to her temple when Arslan was born. All these breadcrumbs. Did Tahamine maybe visit the temple to give birth in a secret location? I say this as in the past when a family wanted to hide a pregnancy (or the conception date) or birth they'd often send the woman away to a retreat, temple or church on the pretext of health reasons. Falagies can speak to djinn and is skilled in rebuffing the advances of men it seems as Gieve gets nowhere with his blatant flattery. Narsus leads Khalan and his company north into a country of narrow ravines where they are attacked and overwhelmed by Arslan's small cohort. Arslan comes face to face with Khalan who tells Arslan that it's for the best if he dies without knowing the reason for his defection 'ill fated son of Androgoras'. Which I take as confirmation that there's some issue over Arslan's legitimacy that Khalan became aware of and was serious enough for him to defect over. Only thing that makes sense is that Arslan isn't Androgoras's son and actually the son of a foreigner (vizier or lord from the country where Tahamine was captured is the most likely at this point). It speaks to his character that despite knowing whatever he does, that Khalan still addresses Arslan as 'your highness'. We switch to the Japanese VA for Falagies's elegy and you're right, she has a beautiful voice. The after credit scene bring Khalan's final words and our speculation into relief as we learn that Androgoras is indeed still alive and a prisoner to SM, who it turns out is the kings nephew and rightful heir to the throne after his father was killed. We didn't see it but guessing his face is scarred and that this occurred whenever his dad was killed as I think the elder brother and former king of Pars was killed in a fire. If SM learned that his uncle usurped the throne from his dad and that this was partly for a woman, who then gave birth to a child from another country who is now proclaimed as heir to the throne, you can understand why SM would be mad and this would be a justifiable reason for Khalan and others to defect as it would seem like Androgoras betrayed his country, brother and crown for a woman. |
23feanorMay 31, 4:42 AM
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| @23feanor I'm leaning more and more towards your view that Tahamine has been far more in control of her circumstances than she lets on, and if you're right that she gave birth at the temple, that would also feed into how she manipulated events to her advantage. Episode 9 So it turns out, there are actual "sorcerers" behind the scenes, including one who apparently was responsible for raising the literal fog of war over the battlefield that caused so much trouble for the Parsian forces. The leader of these men even knows that Kharlan perished somehow - sounds like he has informants. Daryun and Narsus infiltrate the capitol city. Tahamine is approached by the king offering marriage. This pisses off his religious leaders, as does his decision not to execute Andragoras. Instead, they burn a bunch of rare historical texts in the city. How very Library of Alexandria of them (though that was supposedly accidental). We see much of that religious fanaticism shining through as they reject any opportunity to obtain medical knowledge on the basis that disease is active punishment by god. They even throw one of their own soldiers on the pyre for questioning it. Gieve, who is still thirsty as hell for Falanges, says he wants to compose a poem for her, saying that leaving him alone would fill the forest with his "poetic sentiments." Her response that "it would be a shame to poison all these lovely trees" really got me. For some reason, Elam decides not to tell Arslan about his encounter with Etoile in the city, which leads to a short but thankfully not violent confrontation later. Arslan, in defense of a random couple accosted by Lusitanian soldiers, ends up running into Etoile on his own (who is apparently a commander now). They have a relatively friendly reunion, though Etoile makes clear that everyone must convert to their religion. Arslan makes a good point about how Lusitanian views regarding equality among the people run in stark contrast to their views that heathens are not worthy of basic human consideration, though Etoile seems unable to recognize it. He's a true believer, and even gives Arslan a small religious text to read, but he's clearly blinded by that same faith. They also apparently believe in a sort of manifest destiny that demands that they conquer others like the Parsian kingdom. Daryun and Narsus are discovered (they're not hiding themselves particularly well), but that was clearly the aim, as they make quick work of some remaining soldiers from Kharlan's retinue. They find out where Tahamine is as a result, but not Andragoras. Daryun, however, quickly finds himself in single combat with SM, who appears to be more than a match for the powerful soldier. After telling Daryun that he killed Varys, Daryun slashes SM's mask off his face, finally revealing his full face and the burn on the right side of it. Narsus intervenes in the match (also made upset by SM's insulting his painting skills - truly, his malevolence knows no bounds), and the two of them overpower SM, but are quickly surrounded by Lusitanian soldiers and forced to retreat with the promise of a reprise of their fight to come. |
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| Important note Sakamoto Maaya did voice only in Ghost in the Shell: Arise. This version had completely different cast and wasn't very popular. I didn't see it and even didn't want to. But Sakamoto Mayaa is Oshino Shinobu Episode 8. What did we have here? Gieve and Falangies immediately showed trust in each other. Kharlan has demonstrated that he is a negative character. So we won't cry when he dies. And we didn't. Our army has 5 members. Frankly speaking that's all I can say. |
| Episode 9. Actual sorcerers, huh, wasn't expecting that from a historical action, but a bit mysticism and sorcery can add a bit of spice and unpredictability to a story. Not sure why Innocentis wouldn't kill Androgoras, as Tahamine is technically still married as long as he's alive, but maybe that's not an issue for someone expecting to be named emperor. Guess that Giscard or SM have arranged it so that the Innocentis won't kill Androgoras as they must have some need of him, to recognise SM formally as successor maybe? I read some great Roman detective novels written by Lindsey Davis about a guy called Marcus Didius Falco, and I still vividly remember his trip to the library of Alexander. If you like ancient detective stories (Cadfael Chronicles by Ellis Peters is another set in 11th century monastery, reminds me, just finished Shardlake on Disney and it was really good if you like historical mystery series) then Marcus Didius Falco is your man (his wife, Helena Justina, might be one of the best written female characters I've ever come across), set during Vespasian's reign. The archpriest seems very excessive, but then that's why we call them fanatics. The interactions between Falagies and Gieve are funny. Etoile and Arslan meet in a village, with Etoile now a commander and a religious zealot. whose arguments make no sense 'all men are equal, but Parsian's are heathen and can be treated as such', so not so equal then. Narsus and Daryun infiltrate the city, although not disguised, eventually getting recognised and accosted by soldiers. Turns out Daryun and Narsus were fishing and seeking info on the king and queens location. Daryun and SM face off with SM holding his own against both SM and Narsus. |
23feanorYesterday, 2:41 AM
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| Episode 9. The villians are plotting, the emperor is flirting, the archpriest is horrifying. What's going on our side? Daryun and Narsus are scheming, Gieve is flirting, but in a good way. Can't ignore the scene of the meeting of Arslan, Elam and Etoile. We can see how wise Arslan is. Daryun and Narsus were walking in the city, trying to sniff rumours about Andragoras the King. A random soldiers didn't know anything special, how sad. And finally the battle. Draw. The end of episode 9. |
| Fun fact: Hiromu Arakawa, the mangaka behind FMA, is also the mangaka behind adapting the manga version of The Heroic Legend of Arslan that this show is based on (obviously not the original manga). The manga is still ongoing, so needless to say, this series won't wrap up the story. So I guess those visual designs that I thought looked like FMA:B were, indeed, quite similar - Daryun looks a lot like Kimblee, but beefier. Episode 10 We catch up with the gang being chased by 500 cavalrymen. Despite being vastly outnumbered, they manage to take out a lot of the enemy while running away, and soon find themselves bolstered by allied archers who send the enemy running. Arriving at a Parsian noble's stronghold (name's Hodir), Arslan is offered all the best foods and amenities made possible by all his slaves. His goal is to marry Arslan off to his daughter for his own benefit. Arslan starts talking plans, including freeing all the slaves. Hodir initially seems receptive despite the aforementioned slaves he has, but pushes back in private. Arslan and gang plot to leave that very night, expecting Hodir to make his own moves, trying to drug and kill all of them except Arslan. He tries to convince Arslan to agree with him and even threatens him with force of arms and concealed daggers. Some highly effective preparations on their part (cutting the bowstrings makes a lot of sense) and showcasing some amazing fighting skills results in Hodir and his men quickly being killed or defeated. Finally, this becomes an opportunity for Arslan to free Hodir's slaves, but he quickly learns that the response is only anger. He must have been good to them because they only sought vengeance for his killing. Narsus knew this was coming, having experienced something similar in his own efforts, but thought Arslan had to experience this himself. It was a test of his resolve. |
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| @whiteflame55 I see you also watched the video from Mothers Basement. None of the shows he mentioned are available in the UK to stream, although a few did used to be on Funimation. I was surprised to hear the story for Arslan was written by the same guy who wrote LotGH, which is one of the most comprehensive and varied plots I've ever seen. Bodes well, although as you mention, the anime adaption only has one season and a sequel 8 ep OVA. Also added Samurai Flamenco and Magical Shopping Arcade Abenoshi to my ptw list. I love when knowledgeable anime fans share their historical less well known faves. I picked up Irresponsible Captain Tylor after watching a Mothers Basement rec video and really enjoyed it, although the sequel OVA is a bit of a mess. Episode 10. Arslan and co make it to a nearby fortress still loyal to Pars and take refuge. there they are entertained by Hodor Hodir, who has ideas of his own, mainly to marry off his youngest daughter to Arslan, but he also doesn't seem to pleased by Arslan's notion of freeing all the slaves. Daryun and Narsus have an interesting conversation where Daryun recalls his uncle, Vahriz's words about the 'rightful' king trying to take the throne. They ponder on whether Arslan is actually the child of the former king, Androgoras's deceased elder brother (which would have meant Arslan was next in line and Androgoras, his uncle, usurped his place). Is Arslan the child of the elder brother and Tahamine maybe? So it appears we're not the only ones thinking about whether Arslan is the rightful heir. Narsus shoots this idea down saying that the birth of Arslan doesn't line up, so he must have been born over a year after the deceased brother, and former kings death, which if true, would mean Arslan can't be the son of Tahamine's previous lovers, the vizier and lord of another country, as she would've had to be pregnant when she arrived in Pars. How do Narsus and Daryun not know of the existence of SM as the son of the former king, was he a baby when his dad the former king was killed and it was assumed he died in the fire, ie did Androgoras (and maybe Tahamine) do away with dad and son to get hold of the throne, and who is SM's mother, is it Tahamine? Hodir shows his hand and tries to force Arslan to abandon his comrades and side with him, mainly because he doesn't want to large retinue of slaves being freed as 'it would upset the balance of wealth in Pars' [for himself] and to gain power and influence. Arslan and co are ready and fight their way out of the fortress killing Hodir in the process. Arslan tells the slaves they are now free but they react violently, not at all happy. This was, according to historical reports, accurate in a lot of cases. Although sometimes mistreated, slaves had food and a roof over their head, and if they were suddenly freed would have no prospects or independent means to survive. Plus accounts I've read of ancient Rome said that many slaves, usually the higher ranking ones who could read and write, do accounts etc, were treated well and likely to be freed after a certain period of time in their masters service or upon their death. So they were quite happy with their positions, albeit, they weren't 'free' men and women. I particularly recall reading an account of Cicero's main assistant (a slave called Tiro who became famous for collecting and publishing Cicero's works after his death, he also created a version of shorthand so he could record verbatim Cicero's speeches) who had it better than most, but was acutely aware he was not free to make his own decisions (ie in marriage for example), and the life of a slave varied considerably depending on the nature and kindness of their master. I liked this ep, I'm getting drawn into the story. |
23feanor6 hours ago
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| Episode 10. The beginning of the episode makes me wonder, does it makes sense to send 500 horseman in pursuit of a group of heroes? Anime does answer 'No'. OK, I'm voluming up my suspension of disbelief to 75%. The next act is introducing Hodir, Lord of Kashan Fortress, the this act was good. I understand Hodir's motivation, he had a lot of reasons to behave this way. As he was too straightforward (or too blunt) his plans were ruined. Finally Arslan gave freedom to Kashan's slaves. The slaves was not happy and I can imagine reasons for it. But I couldn't imagine anything as I have the only one answer directly from the author. 'To the slaves, as bad as Hodir was, he must have been a good master'. This was the reason. Perhaps slavery wasn't as bad as Arslan thought. I will stick to the version that the translation is not very good. But luckily this was the only claim. Next hop to peshevar, end of the episode. |
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