Majutsushi Orphen Hagure Tabi: Urbanrama-hen Episode 9 Discussion

MFDOOMED said:
Why did Orphen pass out last episode?

ChenChan2020 said:
From what I understand he was so exhausted from worrying about Cleao that he passed out, with all that worry he used a spell and it took energy from him.

MFDOOMED said:
That make no sense whatsoever. Those three have been in tons of life threatening situations and this particular time is too much for Orphen? I mean your explanation makes as much sense as anything else in this world. Orphen only makes sense when it feels like it. 

ChenChan2020 said:
I don't think in any situation Orphen saw Cleao and Magic looking dead. Magic bleeds out and Cleao dies with her eyes open.

MFDOOMED said:
Your talking about the same guy that watched his adopted family more or less die in front of him. I want a concrete explanation from the show why this time was so much worse than all the life and death situations he's been a part of. Buddy you seem to be taking this convo pretty serious. It's not. This show plays fast and loose with it's own rules and the show being dumb doesn't make for an interesting convo. 

How about this? What great anime did you watch where the MC bounced back after a terrible experience. Not ok or good anime, but great anime. I'm curious what anime you recommend.

MFDOOMED said:
Your talking about the same guy that watched his adopted family more or less die in front of him. I want a concrete explanation from the show why this time was so much worse than all the life and death situations he's been a part of. Buddy you seem to be taking this convo pretty serious. It's not. This show plays fast and loose with it's own rules and the show being dumb doesn't make for an interesting convo. 

How about this? What great anime did you watch where the MC bounced back after a terrible experience. Not ok or good anime, but great anime. I'm curious what anime you recommend.

ChenChan2020 said:
Dude... You really are talking nonsense. This is about two children he loves very much "dead" in front of his eyes. You are emotionless.

MFDOOMED said:
So you just want to incite conflict? You want to argue over a by the numbers anime like Orphen. Really? Ok I'll bite. Claiomh and Majic are some of the worst characters I have ever watched. Literally. Claiomh in particular is comparable to Sakura if when we talk about useless female MC's. Except she's worse! A person that goes out of their way to make things worse for everyone. Even Leki!

Majic is at least working to be less useless. I guess the finale of this story is this guy growing a spine. It's cool if the author of this story wants Orphen to care about these two. But the way they are written, I am honestly dumbfounded that any reader/anime watcher would care about them. Even in a low stakes simple story like this.

When your characters are both unlikeable and uncompelling, it is a big ask for the audience to like the characters. For instance Tanya from Youjo Senki could be seen as an unlikeable character. Hell, in the story this guy pissed off so many people he was murdered and reincarnated. For some people who watched the anime, Tanya is unsympathetic. I'll tell what Tanya isn't tho. Tanya is not a boring loser who does nothing and exists to fill time while better characters are doing their thing. Tanya is compelling. So people care what happens to Tanya. I do. If you watched the anime, I bet you did too.

Orphen is addicted to over explaining everything. The different types of Dragons. Why magic is useful here and useless there. The ins and outs of the tower of Dragons. Last season, they painstakingly explored the ways that taking a life can harm an MC. It's not normal for the way this anime tells stories to just have Orphen faint for no reason. It's not true to his battle hardened character either. Either the anime cut something from the books, an explanation will be given later, or this anime decided to have poor storytelling. That's why I post on MAL. To learn from others with more knowledge than me why stories go in different ways. Or just to commiserate on stuff.

You tho, I don't what words should be used to describe what you wrote. You honestly are telling me that a person you don't know can be analyzed by a comment about useless characters. Even if they were well written, I suppose you believe fictional characters and how people talk to them can define the type of person that watches anime. I guess this world has all types of people in it. I'll let you pick your own description for your behavior.

MFDOOMED said:
So you just want to incite conflict? You want to argue over a by the numbers anime like Orphen. Really? Ok I'll bite. Claiomh and Majic are some of the worst characters I have ever watched. Literally. Claiomh in particular is comparable to Sakura if when we talk about useless female MC's. Except she's worse! A person that goes out of their way to make things worse for everyone. Even Leki!

Majic is at least working to be less useless. I guess the finale of this story is this guy growing a spine. It's cool if the author of this story wants Orphen to care about these two. But the way they are written, I am honestly dumbfounded that any reader/anime watcher would care about them. Even in a low stakes simple story like this.

When your characters are both unlikeable and uncompelling, it is a big ask for the audience to like the characters. For instance Tanya from Youjo Senki could be seen as an unlikeable character. Hell, in the story this guy pissed off so many people he was murdered and reincarnated. For some people who watched the anime, Tanya is unsympathetic. I'll tell what Tanya isn't tho. Tanya is not a boring loser who does nothing and exists to fill time while better characters are doing their thing. Tanya is compelling. So people care what happens to Tanya. I do. If you watched the anime, I bet you did too.

Orphen is addicted to over explaining everything. The different types of Dragons. Why magic is useful here and useless there. The ins and outs of the tower of Dragons. Last season, they painstakingly explored the ways that taking a life can harm an MC. It's not normal for the way this anime tells stories to just have Orphen faint for no reason. It's not true to his battle hardened character either. Either the anime cut something from the books, an explanation will be given later, or this anime decided to have poor storytelling. That's why I post on MAL. To learn from others with more knowledge than me why stories go in different ways. Or just to commiserate on stuff.

You tho, I don't what words should be used to describe what you wrote. You honestly are telling me that a person you don't know can be analyzed by a comment about useless characters. Even if they were well written, I suppose you believe fictional characters and how people talk to them can define the type of person that watches anime. I guess this world has all types of people in it. I'll let you pick your own description for your behavior

ChenChan2020 said:
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MFDOOMED



You make me laugh. Do you believe what you say? No one is forcing you to watch, you can leave here. Your opinion is not interesting. Cleao and Magic are good characters and I like them. They are both just teenagers and they are doing what they can to help. Cleao is one of the symbols of this series, most people who like Orphen really like her and she adds a lot of comedy, and she is very sweet. Your comment is unnecessary so you can go. oh and read what  fudish123 saying. At least he is one who understands.

fudish123 said:
About the dragon explanation at almost every episode: that's an anime thing. They explain it in the books not that often.  Claiomh is an unexperienced 17 y.o teenager with no proper training in anything other than some sword fighting (which proved to be useless in real danger), so yeah, she doesn't have much use if you wanna put it that way, but that's what you expect from a rich spoiled teenager. She's always trying to help, albeit the anime rushes thru the plot, so a lot of the characters' thoughts, intentions (hers specially) got lost in the way, anyway, she tries to be helpful  cooking food (even if it turns out to be bad). 

Or maybe even unsheating her sword to fight, like in the Fenrir arc, she even called the rangers to help but they all backed off so she went alone, that's when Claiomh knocked out Salua. In the Tafrem arc, she offered herself to help rescuing Tish, but it was too dangerous so Orphen forbid her. During the Tower attack, she managed to knock out a sorcerer by hitting the back of his head with a... her pair of shoes filled with dirt (the sorcerer was focused on Leki)Let us not forget the countless times Leki was used to blast foes in magic, cuz he answers to her only, so it was kinda her doing. At the Kamisunda Theater, she managed to shatter to pieces a powerful stone golem with her sword, by teleporting meters above it. I think you get the idea, she does what she can but there's so much a 17 year old girl can do. 

About Orphen's magic block due to him killing Laniote, he doesn't consider himself an assassin, even if his training tell otherwise, so it was a shock for him when he killed the lad and I think it's one of the most realistic depictions of how killing could affect someone's mind if you ask me.

About Orphen passing out, he was exhausted, but only realized the fact right before collapsing. The trip was exhausting and they didn't have much time to properly rest, which wasn't shown all that well in the episodes. Claiomh passed out due to heatstroke before they entered Urbanrama:

Orphen was tired too but he carried on and didn't have much time to rest either since Lottecia went for Ed at nightfall not long after they arrived:

So yeah, they were all tired when they got to Urbanrama. Then they spent 2 hours looking for Lottecia. Orphen spent even more time running around, then he fought Lottecia, had to cast a spell and held the girl in his arms, the sum of all of this made him black out:

MFDOOMED said:
I appreciate you posting the passages from the book. It was super unnecessary and I would have taken you at your word regardless, but it was certainly an.....interesting read. I guess you helped validate for me why I avoid light novels.

That being said you basically proved my point by explaining the story in a way the anime didn't. Now I know why Orphen passed out. I do still think his master would be disappointed his strongest disciple doesn't have more endurance, but that's probably me being pedantic.

We have a difference of opinion on Claiomh, which is cool. Every single character has been useful in this story in one way or the other. I'm sure Volkan will be useful too. I don't think that makes him useful overall. I don't think Claiomh's occasional usefulness overshadows her personality and the trouble she gets the gang into. Other people are free to disagree. I honestly would take a Claiomh who never helped once with a different personality over the Claiomh we have in the story.
 
As far as the last season, you and I are on the same page about the way they handled dealing with taking a life. It doesn't hurt that we had the seiyuu for Dio doing his best over the top voice to sell Name as a character. 

I wish more anime gave legitimate reasons for why killing is a no no other than it's bad. Or because Buddhism says killing is bad, we as storywriters have to force in morality about killing even when it is at odds with the story we want to tell. Vinland Saga season 2 also did a great job on explaining why being a killer isn't in your best interest.

Also I don't know how old you are, but there isn't a big world of difference in age between Orphen, Majic, and Claiomh. Most people over the age of 30 see everyone under 25 as a kid. Anime doesn't make it any better with their tendency to make kids way more mature than most people would ever be at that age on one hand. Then on the other hand use school and other tropes to show they are still kids. You said it your self. Claomh is untrained, which I would say is directly related to her maturity and stupidity. Those kids in the tower of fangs were wiser even at a younger age. 

Also Claiomh is selectively stupid. The anime and I'm sure the books as well show her to be a perfectly competent and intelligent person. Until they decide she is not. That's my problem. I don't mind Claiomh until the story decides to make her unlikeable. Or perhaps like Orphen I just ended up tolerating her for who she is.

I will say I applaud the writer of Orphen for writing a female character who is somewhat accurate to how women are in real life. In all their flawed glory. I can hate some things about women while appreciating other things about them at the same time. Every once in a while Claiomh has her moments.

In any case I used way too many words to say thanks for the insight, lets continue watching Orphen until all the adaptions are finished.

fudish123 said:
Yeah, Orphen underwent the toughest training ever but when the writer decides a character has to lose, to die, to fall and etc, it will happen regardless, so you can blame that on the author. I think there's a fair difference in between the trio's age: Majic is 14, Claiomh is 17 and Orphen is 20 or 21, not sure 100%, but here's the thing: Orphen was raised to be the best fighter, mage and to have the toughest mind possible, or he would've been killed by the Fenrir. I think that's why Orphen may sound more mature for someone his age. As for Majic and Claiomh, they act exactly as you'd expect a teenager to do. Majic is the one who's supposed to go with Orphen, Claiomh sneaked in the wagon but Orphen accepted it for some reason I still don't know, maybe deep down he liked her. Actually, in the books, Majic thinks to himself how alike Orphen and Claiomh are, that's how they manage their differences.

 The problem with Claiomh is that she takes action too quickly, for better or for worse. Almost all of her actions I quoted were on a whim and I must admit she's a quick thinker, cuz some solutions she came up with were pretty creative. That's her biggest quality and flaw if you ask me. But again, there's so much a girl her age and (lack of) training can do. She does her best, she cares for the guys (even though she bullies the crap out of Majic) even if she fucks up sometimes being nosy. I think your judgement on her being useless is due to this season, she really didn't do much compared to season 1 and 2, she actually almost died for like the third time (the first time is in book 3 which was never adapted to anime). 

If you want her to truly mature and grow, you'll have to wait J-Novel Club's good will to adapt the New Series to english. I read the synopsis of the first book (via machine translation) and it's said that she undergoes a training of some sort not long after book 20 of Stray Journey (the last book and the last arc for season 4). Remember, the time span in between Totokanta (book 1/arc 1 of season 1) to season 2 episode 1 was 3 months only. God knows how many months have passed until season 3, my guess it's 1 year tops or less, so I guess that's why we don't see her maturing that much. But what we do see is that Orphen slowly began to like her, in an eros way.

That is hinted in his thoughs throughout the books but Deen rushed these important details that adds to character building. And you can see how he doesn't let anyone get anywhere close to her, the hospital scene with Winona.