Hypocrisy + double standards in people&#039;s opinions

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GrapefruitNeko said:

GlennMagusHarvey said:
Very often it's not just about any one feature in isolation but it's about the presentation of the whole package, of the show as a whole.

For example, I dropped No Game No Life because its protags came off as arrogant jerks, and its premise of playing games to resolve conflicts, seemed to be so contrived as to feel obnoxious.

Then I watched Problem Children (a.k.a. Mondaiji-tachi), which features an arrogant jerk protag, and involves playing games to resolve conflicts, and somehow I actually kinda enjoyed that show.

I don't know why, but the execution of the two shows is obviously different. For example, NGNL has all those rainbow colors which Problem Children doesn't. I was also pretty okay with the second and third of the "problem children" in Problem Children, but I found both the brother and the sister irritating in NGNL (and the sister was downright creepy in some ways, while Izayoi from Problem Children felt more fun in general). On top of this, I think I may have watched NGNL subbed while I watched Problem Children dubbed and I tend to find that dubs have a greater potential to make me enjoy the experience. And finally, I like Problem Children's opening theme more.

All in all this says it's not just about jerk protags and contrived games. I still don't like those, but they could be done in such a way that I don't mind them that much while the story might give me something else to chew on that I like.

These aren't really "double standards" as much as it is "context and execution matter". I suspect this is the case with other people as well.

I watched both of those and I think I liked NGNL better because I thought the plot is more exciting but in personality I think the Mondaiji-tachi characters are more normie-friendly. I might end up disliking maybe some random aspect of two shows with similar plot so that would make the difference, and it can come down to something like the direction, soundtrack or art. Maybe in some cases not liking the fan service can be an excuse to not liking the setting or maybe it's a combination of the two.

That reminds me of trying to compare Heartcatch and Fresh Pretty Cure. Both are pretty solid shows, but I think Fresh does story better while Heartcatch does awesomeness better, and it can be hard to decide which one's better overall.

Anyway, I'm obviously not qualified to speak on NGNL's story because I haven't watched most of it, but just curious, what do you mean by the Mondaiji-tachi characters are more "normie-friendly"?

Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut.

May 1, 2019 10:23 AM

#53

Rainy11

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GlennMagusHarvey said:
That reminds me of trying to compare Heartcatch and Fresh Pretty Cure. Both are pretty solid shows, but I think Fresh does story better while Heartcatch does awesomeness better, and it can be hard to decide which one's better overall.

Anyway, I'm obviously not qualified to speak on NGNL's story because I haven't watched most of it, but just curious, what do you mean by the Mondaiji-tachi characters are more "normie-friendly"?

Yeah, I haven't seen any of Pretty Cure. My impression of Sora and Shiro is that they are misunderstood geniuses whose arrogance does not allow them to function in normal society but for Izayoi he's arrogant but would have been more accepted than them even if he hadn't been isekai'd.

May 1, 2019 10:23 AM

#54

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May 2009

8386

ThatShiny_Hex said:
No one here is a real critic. Most MAL users are living with this delusion of being a good critic, whereas actually, they have severe personality disorders.

Then what's a "real critic", and what makes them a "real critic", and what "severe personality disorders" do MAL users have?

GrapefruitNeko said:

GlennMagusHarvey said:
That reminds me of trying to compare Heartcatch and Fresh Pretty Cure. Both are pretty solid shows, but I think Fresh does story better while Heartcatch does awesomeness better, and it can be hard to decide which one's better overall.

Anyway, I'm obviously not qualified to speak on NGNL's story because I haven't watched most of it, but just curious, what do you mean by the Mondaiji-tachi characters are more "normie-friendly"?

Yeah, I haven't seen any of Pretty Cure. My impression of Sora and Shiro is that they are misunderstood geniuses whose arrogance does not allow them to function in normal society but for Izayoi he's arrogant but would have been more accepted than them even if he hadn't been isekai'd.

Ah, I see what you mean.

Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut.

May 1, 2019 10:32 AM

#55

Giulia14

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Mar 2019

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It's not about the element itself, it's about the context and the presentation. Two books could talk about the same thing but one can be a masterpiece and the other can be shit, it depends on the style. At least that's what i studied in my literature classes.

May 1, 2019 10:34 AM

#56

Sad

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Nov 2013

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in a similiar line of thinking to jal90, it's less about putting elements of entertainment in boxes labeled 'like' and 'dislike' prior to watching a series and more about putting those elements in the appropriate box during the series as you see them in application. i don't believe it's so black and white as ultimately we have the potential to change how we feel based on our developing experience.

although, something i see quite often is users starting series with a preconceived notion of negativity, and in that they often tunnel vision on the elements of the series that they don't agree with, and disregard anything that may make the experience positive. this i see most in users who have a dislike for a particular fanbase, rather than the actual series itself at times, which i fear is unfair. i think just from my time on MAL the amount of this i've seen for the 'big 3' is too much.

the official MAL hall of fame/cursed comments is now open for business - you are welcome to PM me any potential quotes to include

May 1, 2019 12:17 PM

#57

Kruszer

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There is no human being alive that isn't hypocritical, best get used to it.

"The name's Gambit. Remember it."
-Gambit "X-Men '97"

May 1, 2019 1:37 PM

#58

LeonhartAugust

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It pisses me off when I see users here saying that they hate female tsunderes, but adore male tsunderes. Shows how hypocritical and horny they are.

May 1, 2019 7:22 PM

#59

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HungryForQuality said:
Maybe they love a certain aspect of one series but when another series does the same thing, they hate it and vice versa.

Or not just for specific anime series but hypocrisy on features of anime in general like cliches,tropes,common general criticisms like "edgy" or "pretentious.

How are these double standards?
Just because the aspects are the same, doesn't mean that every anime presents them in the way you might like.

For example, I liked some shy girls and disliked some others, because they felt just like a cliche.
I liked some hotheaded, stubborn protagonists or good-natured characters and disliked some others for the same reason.
I liked some cold, more distant characters and well, disliked some others.

Real people could have all of these traits too and characters with these personalities could feel more natural to you, so you get behind them etc..., and some others don't appeal to you.

Same for every genre.

May 1, 2019 7:42 PM

#60

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Maneki-Mew said:

HungryForQuality said:
Maybe they love a certain aspect of one series but when another series does the same thing, they hate it and vice versa.

Or not just for specific anime series but hypocrisy on features of anime in general like cliches,tropes,common general criticisms like "edgy" or "pretentious.

How are these double standards?
Just because the aspects are the same, doesn't mean that every anime presents them in the way you might like.

For example, I liked some shy girls and disliked some others, because they felt just like a cliche.
I liked some hotheaded, stubborn protagonists or good-natured characters and disliked some others for the same reason.
I liked some cold, more distant characters and well, disliked some others.

Real people could have all of these traits too and characters with these personalities could feel more natural to you, so you get behind them etc..., and some others don't appeal to you.

Same for every genre.

It's a double standard if the presentation of these aspects are similar in both but the reaction is wildly different.

You can try to argue that the context and execution is different but if those arguments don't add up, then it stays a double standard.

For instance, Yuno killing because she's crazy = bad writing but Ladd Russo killing because he's crazy = good writing, according to a lot of people.

The environment in Baccano doesn't excuse it since 30s gangsters in Chicago weren't indiscriminate serial killers. They had a business to run and killling civilains randomly is bad for business. Doesn't even make sense how Ladd has so much influence over a gang with a large control over 30s Chicago. He even kills two of the guards for no reason. How is this guy not been deposed of years ago?

Hell, it even kinda ends the same way. Yuno kills herself for Yuki and Ladd sacrifices his arm for Lua. And they both do it for twisted love. And again, they both kill people cuz they're also crazy. Yuno chops off someone's head in one of the episodes and Ladd blasts a kid's head off with a shotgun.

So, I don't see why one note characters in Mirai Nikki are considered poorly written or bad but one note characters in Baccano are considered well written or good.

And I like both shows although I like Baccano better so I'm not some blind hater of any of them. Just some points to be made.

May 2, 2019 5:52 AM

#61

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HungryForQuality said:

Maneki-Mew said:

How are these double standards?
Just because the aspects are the same, doesn't mean that every anime presents them in the way you might like.

For example, I liked some shy girls and disliked some others, because they felt just like a cliche.
I liked some hotheaded, stubborn protagonists or good-natured characters and disliked some others for the same reason.
I liked some cold, more distant characters and well, disliked some others.

Real people could have all of these traits too and characters with these personalities could feel more natural to you, so you get behind them etc..., and some others don't appeal to you.

Same for every genre.

It's a double standard if the presentation of these aspects are similar in both but the reaction is wildly different.

You can try to argue that the context and execution is different but if those arguments don't add up, then it stays a double standard.

For instance, Yuno killing because she's crazy = bad writing but Ladd Russo killing because he's crazy = good writing, according to a lot of people.

The environment in Baccano doesn't excuse it since 30s gangsters in Chicago weren't indiscriminate serial killers. They had a business to run and killling civilains randomly is bad for business. Doesn't even make sense how Ladd has so much influence over a gang with a large control over 30s Chicago. He even kills two of the guards for no reason. How is this guy not been deposed of years ago?

Hell, it even kinda ends the same way. Yuno kills herself for Yuki and Ladd sacrifices his arm for Lua. And they both do it for twisted love. And again, they both kill people cuz they're also crazy. Yuno chops off someone's head in one of the episodes and Ladd blasts a kid's head off with a shotgun.

So, I don't see why one note characters in Mirai Nikki are considered poorly written or bad but one note characters in Baccano are considered well written or good.

And I like both shows although I like Baccano better so I'm not some blind hater of any of them. Just some points to be made.

But they don't see it the same way. You might think "these aspects are presented the same way in both series", but others don't.
I don't know Baccano yet. So I can't tell.
Maybe the character has a different charm to them or anything?

May 2, 2019 5:54 AM

#62

Nerdanimefan1992

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A double standard I see a lot is fan service and harem/ecchi series

May 2, 2019 6:10 AM

#63

GalacticMagna

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Nerdanimefan1992 said:
A double standard I see a lot is fan service and harem/ecchi series

Kinda curious what do you mean?

As for double standards. I think from most comments above. I think it has do with execution and preference for a series doing a similar styles in the certain anime.

May 2, 2019 11:49 AM

#64

resident arbiter

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You're comparing the concepts of the show in a vacuum. Shows are more than just the concepts, what's more important is how it tackles them. The implementation of it in other words. There are countless reasons why one would prefer a show's take on a subject or execution of an element more than the other and that's completely fair. I don't think you have any right to call that hypocrisy/double standard.

May 2, 2019 11:54 AM

#65

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Orhunaa said:
You're comparing the concepts of the show in a vacuum. Shows are more than just the concepts, what's more important is how it tackles them. The implementation of it in other words. There are countless reasons why one would prefer a show's take on a subject or execution of an element more than the other and that's completely fair. I don't think you have any right to call that hypocrisy/double standard.

Yep.

I mean, it's technically a "double standard" to someone who evaluates aspects of a show in isolation.

But there's really nothing wrong with having a double standard for this.

Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut.

May 2, 2019 11:56 AM

#66

blumenbalt

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Sep 2013

847

fan service on 15 years old
a lot of people complaing a lot on girls half naked etc but boys of the same age being on the same spot doesn't even matter

and honestly I don't care about both cases just give it the same judgment, they are still 15 y old teens

( looking at you bnha fandom )

May 2, 2019 11:58 AM

#67

resident arbiter

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GlennMagusHarvey said:

Orhunaa said:
You're comparing the concepts of the show in a vacuum. Shows are more than just the concepts, what's more important is how it tackles them. The implementation of it in other words. There are countless reasons why one would prefer a show's take on a subject or execution of an element more than the other and that's completely fair. I don't think you have any right to call that hypocrisy/double standard.

Yep.

I mean, it's technically a "double standard" to someone who evaluates aspects of a show in isolation.

But there's really nothing wrong with having a double standard for this.

I mean, yeah I guess. But the word has an accusatory connotation so I dunno it's still best not to say it imo.

May 2, 2019 1:19 PM

#68

shadowblaster5

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Mar 2016

497

It's about how well executed it is. If it's done poorly, it can often feel very cringy to watch.

For example, I dislike the "friendship" theme of Fairy Tail, but I don't mind it in One Piece. Why? Because Fairy Tail shoves it in your face every time you watch it. In Fairy Tail fights, friendship is literal power. While in One Piece, it's passion and sometimes power though very subtle.

May 2, 2019 1:43 PM

#69

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561864

Orhunaa said:

GlennMagusHarvey said:

Yep.

I mean, it's technically a "double standard" to someone who evaluates aspects of a show in isolation.

But there's really nothing wrong with having a double standard for this.

I mean, yeah I guess. But the word has an accusatory connotation so I dunno it's still best not to say it imo.

Well to be fair to me, I didn't know what other word to use. Using the word "disagreement" is far too vague and general.

I think I made my intent clear in previous posts. Wrestling over the semantics of the word seems to be beating a dead horse and obfuscating the discussion.

If you have a better word to use, I'm all ears. I'll be sure to file it in my head.

May 2, 2019 1:50 PM

#70

resident arbiter

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HungryForQuality said:

Orhunaa said:

I mean, yeah I guess. But the word has an accusatory connotation so I dunno it's still best not to say it imo.

Well to be fair to me, I didn't know what other word to use. Using the word "disagreement" is far too vague and general.

I think I made my intent clear in previous posts. Wrestling over the semantics of the word seems to be beating a dead horse and obfuscating the discussion.

If you have a better word to use, I'm all ears. I'll be sure to file it in my head.

I have adressed the main point as well in my first post. Only focusing on my side point (that I only made because I was asked) and then claiming I'm obfuscating the discussion is rather disingenious.

May 2, 2019 1:57 PM

#71

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Orhunaa said:

HungryForQuality said:

Well to be fair to me, I didn't know what other word to use. Using the word "disagreement" is far too vague and general.

I think I made my intent clear in previous posts. Wrestling over the semantics of the word seems to be beating a dead horse and obfuscating the discussion.

If you have a better word to use, I'm all ears. I'll be sure to file it in my head.

I have adressed the main point as well in my first post. Only focusing on my side point (that I only made because I was asked) and then claiming I'm obfuscating the discussion is rather disingenious.

The side point was addressed before you posted this. You could have read it and then not have to post this side point. But for whatever reason you didn't.

Thanks for addressing the main point. I acknowledge and appreciate it. But do you think I should acknowledge and thank every person who posted on this thread individually?

There's not much more to say here so goodbye. Again though, thank you for responding to my post. I appreciate it.

May 2, 2019 1:58 PM

#72

Evildoer

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Definitely not. I'm pretty sure all anime critics have air-tight opinions and judge everything fairly without being swayed by personal bias. Definitely.

May 2, 2019 2:01 PM

#73

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561864

Evildoer said:
Definitely not. I'm pretty sure all anime critics have air-tight opinions and judge everything fairly without being swayed by personal bias. Definitely.

Was the sarcasm needed? Well I hope your intelligence hasn't been insulted too badly Oh Great One. 😁

Thanks for posting though.

May 2, 2019 2:02 PM

#74

resident arbiter

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HungryForQuality said:

Orhunaa said:

I have adressed the main point as well in my first post. Only focusing on my side point (that I only made because I was asked) and then claiming I'm obfuscating the discussion is rather disingenious.

The side point was addressed before you posted this. You could have read it and then not have to post this side point. But for whatever reason you didn't.

Thanks for addressing the main point. I acknowledge and appreciate it. But do you think I should acknowledge and thank every person who posted on this thread individually?

There's not much more to say here so goodbye. Again though, thank you for responding to my post. I appreciate it.

Apparently I'm supposed to read every 60 something replies before being qualified to post in a thread. Good to know. And goodbye.

May 2, 2019 2:09 PM

#75

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561864

Orhunaa said:

HungryForQuality said:

The side point was addressed before you posted this. You could have read it and then not have to post this side point. But for whatever reason you didn't.

Thanks for addressing the main point. I acknowledge and appreciate it. But do you think I should acknowledge and thank every person who posted on this thread individually?

There's not much more to say here so goodbye. Again though, thank you for responding to my post. I appreciate it.

Apparently I'm supposed to read every 60 something replies before being qualified to post in a thread. Good to know. And goodbye.

I made like two posts addressing it. It would take about 30 seconds to find it and read it tops. Less time than it took for you to make these redundant posts.

And yeah before you say someone is being accusatory, you should take at least some time to check it. It's called not jumping the gun.

But you do you. And goodbye.

May 2, 2019 2:58 PM

#76

ModelCitizen

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HungryForQuality said:
So have you ever seen double standards in people's opinions about certain anime series?

Maybe they love a certain aspect of one series but when another series does the same thing, they hate it and vice versa.

Or not just for specific anime series but hypocrisy on features of anime in general like cliches,tropes,common general criticisms like "edgy" or "pretentious"

You know, everything can be done well and poorly. Just because a show does something superficially similar than something else, that doesn't mean they necessarily did it equally well. I used this phrase so much that I think I should print it on a t-shirt, but it's still true: Context matters.

May 2, 2019 8:19 PM

#77

Evildoer

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HungryForQuality said:

Evildoer said:
Definitely not. I'm pretty sure all anime critics have air-tight opinions and judge everything fairly without being swayed by personal bias. Definitely.

Was the sarcasm needed? Well I hope your intelligence hasn't been insulted too badly Oh Great One.

Thanks for posting though.

It's not like my sarcasm was negatively targeted towards you specifically or anything, so idk why you're acting so aggressive. A bit hypocritical of you after saying such a thing beforehand in that same reply, really.

May 2, 2019 10:40 PM

#78

Rainy11

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Oct 2008

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GlennMagusHarvey said:

GrapefruitNeko said:

Yeah, I haven't seen any of Pretty Cure. My impression of Sora and Shiro is that they are misunderstood geniuses whose arrogance does not allow them to function in normal society but for Izayoi he's arrogant but would have been more accepted than them even if he hadn't been isekai'd.

Ah, I see what you mean.

Actually, a while ago I tried to watch NGNL dubbed for a rewatch, only watched the first ep, and I thought it came across way weirder as a dub. Might watch more. Though in my opinion it is a pretty cool story. It made me want to root for them despite their flaws but I can understand it being really abrasive to some people. I think my love for it comes from the fact that I was really the mood to watch something like it at the time I watched it and hadn't been watching anime for a while so it was one of the things that brought me back to watching anime.

May 3, 2019 3:19 AM

#79

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GrapefruitNeko said:

GlennMagusHarvey said:

Ah, I see what you mean.

Actually, a while ago I tried to watch NGNL dubbed for a rewatch, only watched the first ep, and I thought it came across way weirder as a dub. Might watch more. Though in my opinion it is a pretty cool story. It made me want to root for them despite their flaws but I can understand it being really abrasive to some people. I think my love for it comes from the fact that I was really the mood to watch something like it at the time I watched it and hadn't been watching anime for a while so it was one of the things that brought me back to watching anime.

I think I watched it subbed because it was an anime club watch.

Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut.

May 3, 2019 5:54 AM

#80

holysauron

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Dec 2015

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Neon Genesis Evangelion: The same people who complain about Shinji being a "whiney little bitch" complain about Asuka being brash. If you swapped their personalities Shinji would be a typical shounen protagonist and Asuka would probably be seen as best girl.

May 3, 2019 6:14 AM

#81

CrashRHCP

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Jul 2009

315

Greyleaf said:

On another note, you brought up the point of liking one thing, but disliking another show that follows a similar formula. That's very common actually; regardless of the formula, there's plenty of other factors that could lead one to disliking something that they "should've liked" based off the other show they enjoyed. That could have to do with the cast themselves, the environment/worldbuilding, whether the characters' actions were believable, the nature of the jokes, etc. A decent example in this case is how I loved Kill la Kill and Gurren Lagann, but hated FLCL. All three shows can easily be classified as absurdist works, relying on similar formulas of fast-paced action and outlandish comedy, but I frankly hated the story, characters and comedy of FLCL, while loving those aspects of KLK and TTGL. It's really all just a matter of delivery, and sometimes it just doesn't hit its mark with a viewer, even if it's the kind of show they normally should've enjoyed.

Now that you mention this, I did had a similar opinion.
But in my case was FLCL and TTGL that I love, but KLK for some reason didn't clicked, even if I could see how similar it was to the other two titles, I couldn't go past the first couple episodes.
In similar fashion, someone rec'd me Excel Saga because it had a similar humor to FLCL, and while I can see that, I also found Excel Saga to be "too much".

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May 3, 2019 7:26 AM

#82

resident arbiter

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HungryForQuality said:

Orhunaa said:

Apparently I'm supposed to read every 60 something replies before being qualified to post in a thread. Good to know. And goodbye.

I made like two posts addressing it. It would take about 30 seconds to find it and read it tops. Less time than it took for you to make these redundant posts.

And yeah before you say someone is being accusatory, you should take at least some time to check it. It's called not jumping the gun.

But you do you. And goodbye.

It would take 30 seconds if I knew the exact reply in which the point was made, if not however I have to read all of them and pray that it'll show up early. There are threads that are 5+ pages long, you're being awfully unreasonable. If your concern is redundancy then just spare a few minutes of your precious time and edit the very first post, clarifying your usage of the word and no more people will call you out on it. It's baffling how you expect everyone to read everything just because you can't be bothered to edit your post.

AuronMay 3, 2019 7:31 AM

May 3, 2019 9:12 AM

#83

Rainy11

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Oct 2008

163

GlennMagusHarvey said:
I think I watched it subbed because it was an anime club watch.

Some of the things I've seen at an anime club I drop but I'm used to watching subs. They tend to pick some edgy things sometimes, I wouldn't pick myself but everyone has different preferences and they've shown some worth watching too but sometimes I'll think "I can't believe how edgy this is." I have to decide if its something I want to watch or not, or if it's a rewatch will watching it again with someone who potentially doesn't like it be a disappointment.

May 3, 2019 10:44 AM

#84