| I recently realized how much subtitles can affect your focus towards the anime's story and character dialogues. You miss out on the visual and audio portion of the show more than you think. Those who know Japanese are probably better able to get a deeper understanding of the shows than those who read using subtitles. Just yesterday I watched episode 7 of Sankarea without paying a lot of attention to subtitles. I paid more attention to how they expressed their words through their vocal projection and body language. There are some studios that seemingly interpret their anime's manga counterpart so well that I can't help but praise them. I feel as if I can now figure out which studio does better in terms of adapting a manga into an anime. What are your thoughts on this? Have you guys tried to pay more attention to the subtle details in the show or do you sometimes/always run through the dialogue without much afterthought? |
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| I read fast. I only have to glance at the subs when they change to understand the sentence. I already spend most of my time focused on how words are said and the visuals going on. I'm sure others might have similar experiences as you but subtitles don't impact my viewing anywhere near as bad as they do you. |
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| It really just boils down to how fast you can read. For me, I'm like Anime_Name; I read fast. As soon as subs appear on screen, it takes me a second to read it then my eyes are back on the screen. That and you can always use peripheral vision. Just because you're looking at the subs doesn't mean you can't see what's happening on-screen. After watching a lot of subbed anime it's become second nature. |
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| i read really fast, the only time where this backfires is if theres a real awesome and well animated fight going on but you need to take your eyes off it This is one of the reasons i enjoy dubs, it makes things alot easier to sit back and watch and i can focus my eyes on whats going on not the bottom of the screen, not a huge difference but it does make things more enjoyable when you watch things in your native language |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| I think you're projecting that onto other people (this totally just gave me one of those moments where I couldn't for the life of me remember the word, and after 10 minutes trying to figure it out gave up and just decided to use that. There's a perfect word to express this but whyyyy. I was thinking something along the lines of like gross over-assumption, but more targeted specifically at an overall audience). I don't have any difficulty, and honestly barely even notice that I'm reading the subs... because I can look at both at the same time. I think it just has to do with how fast you can read and comprehend, how well you can match that to what you're hearing (if you know a fair amount of Japanese phrases), and how well deeply you think you can focus on the show you're watching. |
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| This is the main reason I prefer watching an English dub of anime. Some people might say it takes away from the artistic integrity of a show not to watching something in its original language but I can't appreciate the "artistic integrity" if I'm not focused entirely on the screen. Then again, a lot of anime I've watched were in Japanese and my favorite anime has no English dub available at the time of this writing. I'm not as hopeless or extreme as some so watching either or version of a series usually works out. |
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Anime_Name said: I read fast. I only have to glance at the subs when they change to understand the sentence. I already spend most of my time focused on how words are said and the visuals going on. I'm sure others might have similar experiences as you but subtitles don't impact my viewing anywhere near as bad as they do you. Pretty much this. It used to have a huge impact on me.....But honestly it's gotten to the point where it seems like the subtitles aren't even there. I've gotten so used to them that i can just skim over the sentence and hear the characters saying those words. Now, don't get me wrong. I love dubs as well, but to me watching subs doesn't detract from my view of the artwork. But that's just me, and what i think. I'm not saying that you're wrong in any way shape or form. I'm just throwing out my opinion because i found this thread as an interesting read. |
| I read extremely fast, and when I feel like I've missed something important, I will simply play it back. I do agree though that at times I wish I could speak Japanese, so that I didn't have to worry about it at all. I never miss anything "big", but I will occasionally miss important nuances like facial expressions, etc. that are only on the screen for a split second. |
Legendre said: when I feel like I've missed something important, I will simply play it back. Another thing i'm gonna throw in with this. It's when annoying subtitles that try to explain the situation with a huge ass paragraph where it gives the ENTIRE history of Japan in one go. |
| Well, subtitles can certainly be distracting at times. I'd say the problem isn't just missing the subtleties, but the subtleties can affect a person's first impression of an anime. You can always rewatch shows to catch them, watch the dub, or read faster. For stuff like drama and action though, where visuals and emotions have more importance, or stuff like Kure-nai, where you have scenes where multiple characters talking at the same time, missing stuff could be pretty bad. I'm just assuming, but having a weaker first impression could weaken a person's enjoyment of an anime. Still, it's a thing that depends on the person, so meh. But yeah, personally I can read fast so it's never been much of a problem. |
Ahri said: Legendre said: when I feel like I've missed something important, I will simply play it back. Another thing i'm gonna throw in with this. It's when annoying subtitles that try to explain the situation with a huge ass paragraph where it gives the ENTIRE history of Japan in one go. It's even worse when the subbers try to give you long weblinks to Japanese factoids... Of course this has only happened with one subgroup but I still find it horrible. |
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| I use to have that problem, I would watch the series two times in order to make sure I did not miss anything, now that I am learning Japanese I find it to be quite easy to stay on track. |
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| Sometimes the subs are really a distractive thing for me. Why? the type and the size are really big or fancy, and distract me . I really want to appreciate the animation, music and all things make an anime want to see it, but the subs distract. |
| I've been watching things subbed since I was around 6-7 years old, so it's not really distracting to me since I've done it since childhood. And plus, I understand a little Japanese, since I'm from an Asian family. |
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| You can't forget that some fansubs don't always translate the Japanese to X language perfectly. I see this with a lot of shows and unless you speak Japanese or are familiar with some of the words/phrases spoken in Japanese, it will be hard to understand the context or connotations it brings. |
RezurrektJun 23, 2012 12:33 PM
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| Great insight OP! In a perfect world, we’d have Disney-quality dubbing for anime, but alas we don’t. So unfortunately, the inherently distracting nature of subs is a necessary evil that I’d prefer a hundred times over the nauseating quality of voices and script in most dubs (to me; I don’t mean to flame my dub-loving friends). But subs aren’t all that bad. On the plus side, with subtitles you can be confident that you never miss a word of what’s being said. Another positive with subs: since you can't understand what the seiyuu are saying, you automatically imagine the best and most emotionally appropriate reading of the line you see on screen, so you almost always get the best voice acting, even though it happens deceptively. Like when you read a book, and the wording might be so far out from what you'd normally expect people to say, but it still feels okay. DesolateOne said: Definitely, and not only for the reasons you stated, but mostly because they’re already immersed in the target culture. Especially evident with comedies!Those who know Japanese are probably better able to get a deeper understanding of the shows than those who read using subtitles. DesolateOne said: No, I don’t make an active effort to pay attention to all the subtle details, because doing so would take away from my overall enjoyment of the anime. Just watch it as it is, and hope that I subconsciously notice the subtleties. If I do notice that I missed something, I’ll always simply skip back with the left arrow key.Have you guys tried to pay more attention to the subtle details in the show |
FauxAznJun 23, 2012 12:36 PM
| I trust good subgroups. Multitaskers +1 About distraction... Just watch anime with subs so much that it feels like breathing. Automatic |
"A half moon, it has a dark half and a bright half, just like me…", Yuno Gasai |
| I need to learn Japanese, i hate reading while watching anime. |
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DesolateOne said: You can't forget that some fansubs don't always translate the Japanese to X language perfectly. I see this with a lot of shows and unless you speak Japanese or are familiar with some of the words/phrases spoken in Japanese, it will be hard to understand the context or connotations it brings. I whole-heartedly agree! It actually happened when i watched the last episode of Shakugan No Shana Final. I watched the episode from one group first, and then watched it from another later, and the difference i noticed was HUGE and it made so much more of an impact than i would've realize.... So seeing stuff like that annoys the hell out of me in subs. With this however, there can never be a perfect translation. Even now with subs, and dubs it's just a summary of what the characters are saying put into words that the English speaking community can easily understand without asking themselves "What the hell did they just say?". |
| To me watching a story, should be half visual and half audio. When watching something subbed your basically forced to 2x visual + all the audio going on in the background. I don't understand how someone could label half the experience as just a distraction though. I also believe that longtime sub readers haven't only got better at doing both but have also forgotten or gotten used to the fact that they're missing a lot of animation. |
Riiken said: This is bs. Animation only requieres 100% attention during fighting/action scenes, and during those, there isn't usually much talking. In dialogued scenes, you spend a second or less to read 10 seconds of speech, so please enlighten me, what am missing? And it's not like you close your eyes during 1 second every 10 seconds, it's just for a split amount of time, center and periphery visions are inverted. So that's 5% max of loss for the visuals (since you see movements, but not details)(slow scenes have almost 0 loss). Is that a lot? Also you'd have to prove there's a 100% attention span with dubs, which is also arguable. And I admit, I don't multi-task: I don't work/study, play games, browse internet, chat, or whatever when I watch anime. I also believe that longtime sub readers haven't only got better at doing both but have also forgotten or gotten used to the fact that they're missing a lot of animation. |
EratiKJun 23, 2012 1:32 PM
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| Nah, I don't feel like subtitles are taking anything from my anime. I usually don't really miss anything, I am quick reader so I never have to play again some scenes just to see what was that or read it again. Only things I may be missing are some things that need full focus on the visual eg. ghost in amnesia in some episode - I was lucky to see it, have no idea if there was more of them. But it wasn't important at all, so I don't really care. |
| Subtitles don't distract me at all nor do i miss anything because of them. Then again here in Belgium all the foreign media is being subbed (dubs are only used for children's cartoons), so i basically grew up with them. It seems to me that most people who have problems with subs live in countries that have a "strong" international language such as English/French and which dub everything they get. So yes it is something that you need to learn/get used to and ofc reading fast helps :p |
| The subtitles aren't disturbing at all from what I've seen so far. Has yet to be a problem for me :p |
| at times i guess it can distract me since i'm a slow reader. doesn't happen too often though; i can always rewind. |
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| I'm so used to subtitles from both anime and foreign films that it only takes a quick glance to read what is being said. I'm not missing anything. |
| Same. Subtitles aren't distracting for me. Just a fast glance at the words and then look back at the action. Only on rare occasions have I had to go back in the episode to get a better understanding on what happened. |
| The only time I've had trouble with subs are when they're using devices like computers or cellphones (Mirai Nikki and Eden of the East come to mind :P ) and through obsessiveness I absolutely have to pause and read everything for fear that I might miss some important plot element even though the majority of the time the characters summarize whatever it was they just read. I'm just weird like that I guess. Otherwise, subs never bother me as I read quickly. |
| マット "Guests are reminded that platform 1 forbids the use of weapons, teleportation and religion." |
| Thank God someone thinks this way because I've realized the same even today while I was watching Basilisk, but I think that happens the most time while reading some mangas because we want just to know what's happening that we forget to see the images, that's why when I read a volume of Naruto I take like 20 or 30 mins if I hadn't read it before, when I've read it before it takes me almost twice the time because we already know the history and want to appreciate the art by itself, you can do the same on an anime and the experience will show you the same thing |
"A shinobi who violates the rules is scum, but a shinobi who abandons their friends is worse than scum" - Uchiha Obito |
miereneronaile said: Riiken said: To me watching a story, should be half visual and half audio. When watching something subbed your basically forced to 2x visual + all the audio going on in the background. I don't understand how someone could label half the experience as just a distraction though. I also believe that longtime sub readers haven't only got better at doing both but have also forgotten or gotten used to the fact that they're missing a lot of animation. YOU are forced to this. I am forced to less than a second of a glance at the subs and then back to whatever else I am looking at at the time. The point being? Do not suggest anyone besides yourself is forced to do anything /shrug. For those of you having trouble with subs, read 5-10 full sized novels. Itll probably be a fixed after that. You are forced to perform an extra task. How much focus you lose during that task depends on the individual but how can you deny that you are not missing SOMETHING by performing an extra task. How insignificant you think it may be. What about immersion, bright white letters continuously appearing on a well drawn still, how can that not be a distraction? First hit on google definition. Note the words "full attention". dis·trac·tion Noun: A thing that prevents someone from giving full attention to something else. And reading a few novels isn't going to solve everything when you spend your whole life reading. May it be forum posts, articles, study books etc etc... |
| The only really distracting subtitles are those pointless flashy karaoke during scenes (Doki's Angel Beats for example, completely ruined some emotional scenes), or even worse, during some fighting scenes (Some Macross Frontier subs have this I think). It's like, Central Anime is the only group that did that right, and only translated the song and used it as a normal subtitle (Macross 7). |
 "Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
Riiken said: You are forced to perform an extra task. How much focus you lose during that task depends on the individual but how can you deny that you are not missing SOMETHING by performing an extra task. How insignificant you think it may be. What about immersion, bright white letters continuously appearing on a well drawn still, how can that not be a distraction? Because they are unobtrusive or at the very least they aren't as universally bothersome as you are making them out to be. First hit on google definition. Note the words "full attention". And what does one's full attention have to do with watching recordings of cartoons? While the definition of distraction is the same for people, what is or isn't a distraction is depends on the person. And reading a few novels isn't going to solve everything when you spend your whole life reading. May it be forum posts, articles, study books etc etc... Actually what you read matters. I wouldn't go comparing the books you have to read for school(in one ear out the other by the time tests are over) or reading forum posts with reading novels on a regular basis. |
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| Grew up reading subs, so i don't have a problem with it. |
Anime_Name said: I read fast. I only have to glance at the subs when they change to understand the sentence. I already spend most of my time focused on how words are said and the visuals going on. I'm sure others might have similar experiences as you but subtitles don't impact my viewing anywhere near as bad as they do you. The same. Maybe the Op isn't very used in reading subs. I never miss tone of voices and such(why would anyone miss something that he hears because of something that he sees is beyond me), i even detect when the subtitles aren't good when i hear something not very accurate translated. And the viewing although i feel like i always watch the screen fully since i read subs subconsciously, am certain i lose some picture that could potentially at times make me miss something small at the background but in no way will i lose so much picture to miss any action or face expression from the people on the screen. |
| Well I'm pretty much with everyone else on this too. I don't read particularly fast but reading subs is pretty much second nature now and I find I don't often miss out on anything unless I'm stoned or something. But if I do miss something, like for instance during a fast-paced action scene then I will simply rewind it after reading the subs. No big deal right?! |
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| better raw anyway the subs are mad annoying sometimes |
| ~"The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands." (Pirsig) |
| I've watched so much subbed anime that I don't even notice I'm reading anymore so I don't find it distracting at all. Even when I was watching something as visually dense as Revolutionary Girl Utena I was able to keep up with the subs and notice all the little details going on in the animation. The only time subs get annoying is when there are a ton of translator's notes on screen but that doesn't come up often enough to be a real issue for me. And actually for me I feel more engaged watching something subbed than I do dubbed. There have been times when watching a dub my mind will start drifting but when I watch the same thing subbed I don't have that problem. |
ItoukaijiJun 23, 2012 3:18 PM
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| It really doesn't take all that long for your eye and brain to take in the whole. If the dialog is heavy and important I have no problem with backing up and reading it again. |
| -animeS - The plural of anime is anime. More than one deer is still deer. There is no damn "s". -epic |ˈepik| noun•a work portraying heroic deeds/adventures covering an long period of time - adjective • heroic/grand in scale or character Active Military, Prior Service, and Veteran's Anime Club http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=25937&time=1299710079 |
| i feel that i can get the jest of what they are saying from just listening to japanese, then with subtitles it is only a glance, unless it is something complicated then i have to read it a couple of times and maybe even pause it, but i also find that i miss meanings some times and find it hard to understand, but i think that is just normal for me in general maybe even more with subbed shows |
| Before I even watched anime, I would always play games with subtitles on. Sometimes I can't catch what the characters are saying, whether it's because I had the volume too low or I just missed it. Subs leave no room for misinterpretation, and that's why the first thing I do when starting up a game that has cutscenes is turn on the damned subtitles. That aside, the first anime I watched with subs, I didn't even think about it being different than watching a dub. I just naturally read along, because like many others in this thread, I am a pretty quick reader. During fight scenes, there's very little dialogue and many of the techniques are announced in Engrish, for instance: I just QCed an ep of Accel World the other day where the villain prepared his ultimate attack and shouted, "SILLY-GO-ROUND!" in Engrish. Very short if you wanted to read the sub for it, if not, you can understand it. TL notes and typesetting that appear for like two seconds make me rewind, but other than that, I actually prefer subs. The only thing that sucks is if you get bad subs; I mean like "Keikaku means plan"-quality subs. Typos don't matter much, as the subs keep going, and you correct them in your head without thinking. And now I'm a sub elitist for sure. Just started watching Suzumiya Haruhi and forgot I DLed the dual audio version, I heard English and immediately got up and switched to the subs. I have to actually get used to dubs now - even if they're good dubs, it sounds so fucking weird to hear English when I'm expecting Japanese. |
 "In both love and octopus-hunting, you have to take the initiative!" - Gintoki Sakata |
| Like most people here, reading subtitles has become second nature. I don't have to think about or spare any time lingering on the words on screen. A quick glance coupled with the little Japanese I've learned and I don't have to read the sentence word for word to know what was said. Now, I'm sure when I first started watching stuff I missed a little here and there but I'm positive that I miss nothing now. Reading subtitles has become so natural that when they're not there, I've caught myself glancing toward the bottom of the screen expecting to see what I'm hearing Also, this... Marius2005 said: And actually for me I feel more engaged watching something subbed than I do dubbed. There have been times when watching a dub my mind will start drifting but when I watch the same thing subbed I don't have that problem. |
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