Last Exile: Ginyoku no Fam Episode 8 Discussion

Offline

Dec 2011

17

Cratex said:

Actually, the Japanese (and apparently nobody else) paid close attention to the results of the naval Battle of Taranto, which took place on the night of 11–12 November 1940: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Taranto

Thanks.

Dec 9, 2011 6:55 PM

#103

Offline

Apr 2011

69

drunk said:

antisense said:

Ades retreated from Glacies territory, not from the entire area. Of course Glacies was the reason for the retreat, but Glacies was only interested in protecting their territory, once Ades was on the right side of the border that was the end of it. The ceasefire signals were just to say, "ok ok we're leaving, please don't shoot at us anymore" while Ades was trying to disengage and get out of Glacies territory. I still see no reason to believe that staying near the border to recover a ship would cause any problems.

I think only Silvius can salvage Anshar because its the only ship with the flight deck among all ships.

Ok, that actually makes more sense if correct. How they found the time to go pick it up is a little dubious, but at least it's not completely stupid. Thanks for pointing that out :)

Dec 9, 2011 7:37 PM

#104

Offline

Sep 2011

148

Tanrim said:
Could have fooled me. It seemed to me like you kept insolently bring up the same so called fact as a crutch to justify why you thought the Anshar would still be intact. Using it to reinforce the idea that if the ship was low and falling slowly then it wouldn't take much damage. Both of which are your opinions, of course.

*face palm*
you really aren't reading my post carefully aren't you?

Den-kun said:
those are facts because those scenes are shown in the episode.

is it not??

Tanrim said:
Never saw you ever taking about how what happened below the clouds never matter, though.

*double face palm*
you really are not reading my post.

Den-kun said:
the last shot of anshar slowly sinking was the end of that scene so that's what matters

Den-kun said:
focusing all the attention to a very small detail such as a battle ship being totally wreck because of falling to a lake which the writer didn't even emphasize is just over reacting. i mean it's not even the highlight of the episode it's just a part of the closing scene to show that anshar was scuttled by fam and milia so why do it have to be such a big deal?

just to name a few. you can always read my posts to see for yourself.

Tanrim said:
I actually said that myself several times in the context of it being moot since right now there's no way to prove what happened after, anyway.

-yeah you said that those are moot points but you keep on stating some real life examples to contradict it. if you're really saying it's a moot point since nothing has been proved yet, then you shouldn't have stated some real life incidents to insist that those results should what happen next.

Tanrim said:
I'm well aware it's a guess. I said as much, several times. I never said it in any other regard then what could have happened. Saying nothing changed the entire way down is just as much of a guess on your part, too. Neither can be proven yet so they validate nothing.

-that's why i keep saying my statements are just to justify if ever anshar survives. because you keep calling it magic so i explained it through the scenes of this episode. jeez!

Tanrim said:
You're bringing this up again? I never said either one wasn't a fact, reread my post, I said they don't prove anything.

-you never said either one wasn't a fact??

Tanrim said:
Saying to stay with the facts doesn't really make sense since you haven't provide any yourself.

Tanrim said:
You skirt around them because you don't have any facts to support what you're saying.

^you keep on contradicting your earlier statements. saying i didn't provide some facts is the same as saying what i posted are not facts. if what i stated are not used to justify anshar's survival (if ever it does), then why the hell those scenes are showed in this episode??

Tanrim said:
I never once disputed the Anshar descent, I only said that that fact alone is meaningless without context. Sure, it descended, what? 10 feet? 20? As I said without knowing there altitude before and after that fact can't really be applied to anything. What are you trying to get at with this, anyway? Because they descended they were low? It doesn't prove that at all. Go back to the example I gave. If they started at 30,000 feet and descended 5,000 feet that still puts their altitude at 25,000 feet.

-and you said i'm the one pulling out a crystal ball. yeah right. Again, the one making a fuss about what happened next after anshar's last scene (saying it went to a free fall) is the one making a wild guess. i based my statements that if ever anshar survives it is because of the last scene that was shown which was anshar sinking slowly.

Tanrim said:
As for watching the episode I have twice, actually, and watched the point around the sinking several more. Nice try, though. Again, they happened but so what? Obscure facts like those without any context to tie it to doesn't really tell you much. If you can provide context then go ahead.

-and there you go saying

Tanrim said:
I can see both sides and know either could be possible with the current facts available

^you can't really say that your ideas are moot points considering how one-sided you are in this statement.

Tanrim said:
You don't have to assume it didn't go into a free fall, either. Since nothing was seen after the clouds that's also guessing.

-well, it's not a guess if anshar survived. again if anshar survives that's the answer. if it doesn't then it's inconsistency because the scene where anshar sank slowly is ignored, and totally contradicts the statement "the sky fish hunting was a success".

Tanrim said:
If it's not then prove to me that it did in fact keep going like that. What? Can't do that? Of course you can't. It going into a free fall is possible, nothing more, and I never pretended it was some kind of fact. Just a reasonable possibility. Also, like I said, a lot of what I wrote has to do with my opinion that the Anshar didn't survive.

-since you're making stuff up and telling those are possibilities then why not consider the possibility that it stayed sinking that way? isn't that a possibility as well?? so much for "I can also see both sides" huh? LOL very contradicting.

Tanrim said:
In the end it doesn't matter much to me either way. Think I said this already I never really cared about this to begin with

-but you bothered yourself by stating some real life instances to prove your point and coming up with some self produced scenarios. yeah you don't really care about this stuff.

Tanrim said:
I only weighted in because of what someone else said. I can also see both sides as well so I'm not going to lose any sleep even if the Empress of the Seven Suns himself flying a gold plated, perfectly intact Anshar back to Fam.

-a final sarcasting statement after a long misunderstanding due to your contradicting statements.

Den-kunDec 9, 2011 8:58 PM

Dec 9, 2011 8:12 PM

#105

Offline

Sep 2011

148

antisense said:
Ades retreated from Glacies territory, not from the entire area. Of course Glacies was the reason for the retreat, but Glacies was only interested in protecting their territory, once Ades was on the right side of the border that was the end of it. The ceasefire signals were just to say, "ok ok we're leaving, please don't shoot at us anymore" while Ades was trying to disengage and get out of Glacies territory. I still see no reason to believe that staying near the border to recover a ship would cause any problems.

I'm not sure how the boulder hitting Sylvius is relevant; it's not like they were negotiating an alliance or anything, it was just Glacies telling Sylvius to surrender. The exchange was interrupted, but I don't see that it would have changed anything anyway.

ok let's change that "staying near the border" part to "getting close to the boarder" since you're always capitalizing a statement that's already been set aside as i've mentioned on my last post.
that's the problem, since anshar was chasing silvius which was already invading glacies air space it's clear that anshar was close enough to the border of glacies where it sank. and as you can see on that scene it didn't take long for fam and millia to see anshar approaching right after they helped the 03 vanship of glacies making it so close to silvius which was already within the border. advancing again to retrieve anshar is just like entering the borders and they will be attacked again.

regarding the case of silvius, the exchange was interrupted and it's almost closing time leading its continuation to the next episode. calling it a problem is just being impatient.

Den-kunDec 9, 2011 8:15 PM

Dec 9, 2011 8:56 PM

#106

Offline

Apr 2011

69

Den-kun said:

antisense said:
Ades retreated from Glacies territory, not from the entire area. Of course Glacies was the reason for the retreat, but Glacies was only interested in protecting their territory, once Ades was on the right side of the border that was the end of it. The ceasefire signals were just to say, "ok ok we're leaving, please don't shoot at us anymore" while Ades was trying to disengage and get out of Glacies territory. I still see no reason to believe that staying near the border to recover a ship would cause any problems.

I'm not sure how the boulder hitting Sylvius is relevant; it's not like they were negotiating an alliance or anything, it was just Glacies telling Sylvius to surrender. The exchange was interrupted, but I don't see that it would have changed anything anyway.

ok let's change that "staying near the border" part to "getting close to the boarder" since you're always capitalizing a statement that's already been set aside as i've mentioned on my last post.
that's the problem, since anshar was chasing silvius which was already invading glacies air space it's clear that anshar was close enough to the border of glacies where it sank. and as you can see on that scene it didn't take long for fam and millia to see anshar approaching right after they helped the 03 vanship of glacies making it so close to silvius which was already within the border. advancing again to retrieve anshar is just like entering the borders and they will be attacked again.

regarding the case of silvius, the exchange was interrupted and it's almost closing time leading its continuation to the next episode. calling it a problem is just being impatient.

"Getting close to the border" is in no way "just like" crossing the border, they are completely different things. (I'm not seeing any relevant difference between that and "staying near the border", btw.) Glacies can have no legitimate issue with either Ades or Sylvius approaching their borders, as long as they don't cross over into Glacies' territory, so as I said before there is no reason to believe this would result in attack.

In any case, drunk has pointed out a possible reason why Sylvius would be the only one capable of retrieving the damaged ship, so I'm happy to leave it at that.

I doubt that the exchange between Sylvius and Glacies will be continued in the next episode, my feeling is that the contact with Glacies is done for the moment, and we'll move on to something else next episode. Could be wrong though.

Dec 9, 2011 9:20 PM

#107

Offline

Sep 2011

148

antisense said:
"Getting close to the border" is in no way "just like" crossing the border, they are completely different things. (I'm not seeing any relevant difference between that and "staying near the border", btw.) Glacies can have no legitimate issue with either Ades or Sylvius approaching their borders, as long as they don't cross over into Glacies' territory, so as I said before there is no reason to believe this would result in attack.

In any case, drunk has pointed out a possible reason why Sylvius would be the only one capable of retrieving the damaged ship, so I'm happy to leave it at that.

I doubt that the exchange between Sylvius and Glacies will be continued in the next episode, my feeling is that the contact with Glacies is done for the moment, and we'll move on to something else next episode. Could be wrong though.

okay i'll edit the words used since you're always making it a big issue.
-since anshar was chasing silvius which was already invading glacies air space and based on the scene where anshar was spotted advancing right after fam and millia helped the 03 vanship it only means that the distance of anshar and silvius is very close. doesn't that mean anshar was already inside the border too? considering how close it was to silvius being spotted right away by fam and millia just seconds after they helped the 03 vanship. so if other ships followed anshar to retrieve it they will be entering the borders too. giving glacies the reason to attack them if they try to retrieve it.

Den-kunDec 9, 2011 9:26 PM

Dec 9, 2011 9:40 PM

#108

Offline

Apr 2011

69

Den-kun said:

antisense said:
"Getting close to the border" is in no way "just like" crossing the border, they are completely different things. (I'm not seeing any relevant difference between that and "staying near the border", btw.) Glacies can have no legitimate issue with either Ades or Sylvius approaching their borders, as long as they don't cross over into Glacies' territory, so as I said before there is no reason to believe this would result in attack.

In any case, drunk has pointed out a possible reason why Sylvius would be the only one capable of retrieving the damaged ship, so I'm happy to leave it at that.

I doubt that the exchange between Sylvius and Glacies will be continued in the next episode, my feeling is that the contact with Glacies is done for the moment, and we'll move on to something else next episode. Could be wrong though.

okay i'll edit the words used since you're always making it a big issue.
-since anshar was chasing silvius which was already invading glacies air space and based on the scene where anshar was spotted advancing right after fam and millia helped the 03 vanship it only means that the distance of anshar and silvius is very close. doesn't that mean anshar was already inside the border too? considering how close it was to silvius being spotted right away by fam and millia just seconds after they helped the 03 vanship. so if other ships followed anshar to retrieve it they will be entering the borders too. giving glacies the reason to attack them if they try to retrieve it.

I'm not making a "big issue" of anything, I'm merely pointing out why your argument is not convincing. It doesn't matter what words you use, your position still does not make sense.

You are now moving the goalposts by suggesting that Anshar fell "inside the border" rather than near it, but you still fail because, as I said previously, Sylvius is currently no more welcome inside Glacies' borders than Ades is, so that just means neither side would be able to retrieve it.

Dec 9, 2011 11:08 PM

#109

Offline

Sep 2011

148

antisense said:
I'm not making a "big issue" of anything, I'm merely pointing out why your argument is not convincing. It doesn't matter what words you use, your position still does not make sense.

You are now moving the goalposts by suggesting that Anshar fell "inside the border" rather than near it, but you still fail because, as I said previously, Sylvius is currently no more welcome inside Glacies' borders than Ades is, so that just means neither side would be able to retrieve it.

all of those are just possibilities based on the scenes that was shown in this episode. was it not mentioned that silvius entered the border of glacies?
it was mentioned.
was it not shown that anshar was right behind silvius which was already inside the border?
it was shown.
it's true that neither sides can claim anshar especially ades since they already withdraw because both of them are not welcome inside the borders of glacies that's why i told you that you should wait for the next episode before considering it to be a problem.

Den-kunDec 9, 2011 11:16 PM

Dec 10, 2011 12:00 AM

#110

Offline

Apr 2011

69

Den-kun said:

antisense said:
I'm not making a "big issue" of anything, I'm merely pointing out why your argument is not convincing. It doesn't matter what words you use, your position still does not make sense.

You are now moving the goalposts by suggesting that Anshar fell "inside the border" rather than near it, but you still fail because, as I said previously, Sylvius is currently no more welcome inside Glacies' borders than Ades is, so that just means neither side would be able to retrieve it.

all of those are just possibilities based on the scenes that was shown in this episode. was it not mentioned that silvius entered the border of glacies?
it was mentioned.
was it not shown that anshar was right behind silvius which was already inside the border?
it was shown.

It is indeed a possibility that Anshar fell inside the Glacies border, however it is not the situation you have been basing your arguments on up until now, hence "moving the goalposts". I notice you have dropped the argument that Sylvius could have recovered Anshar if it fell outside the border (absent the point about Sylvius' flight deck, which changes things somewhat).

it's true that neither sides can claim anshar especially ades since they already withdraw because both of them are not welcome inside the borders of glacies that's why i told you that you should wait for the next episode before considering it to be a problem.

This discussion began because the end of this episode appeared to suggest that Anshar was captured by Fam, rather than just sunk. I was saying this did not make sense and would constitute a plot hole (though if drunk is correct it may not be so much of one). If you are now saying neither side can claim Anshar if it fell within Glacies' borders, and have no further interest in the possibility that it fell outside Glacies, it seems we have reached agreement.

If it turns out that Anshar was not captured by Fam and Sylvius, then there is nothing to discuss in the first place.

Dec 10, 2011 12:38 AM

#111

Offline

Sep 2011

148

antisense said:
It is indeed a possibility that Anshar fell inside the Glacies border, however it is not the situation you have been basing your arguments on up until now, hence "moving the goalposts". I notice you have dropped the argument that Sylvius could have recovered Anshar if it fell outside the border (absent the point about Sylvius' flight deck, which changes things somewhat).

This discussion began because the end of this episode appeared to suggest that Anshar was captured by Fam, rather than just sunk. I was saying this did not make sense and would constitute a plot hole (though if drunk is correct it may not be so much of one). If you are now saying neither side can claim Anshar if it fell within Glacies' borders, and have no further interest in the possibility that it fell outside Glacies, it seems we have reached agreement.

If it turns out that Anshar was not captured by Fam and Sylvius, then there is nothing to discuss in the first place.

your point doesn't make sense either since you posted...

antisense said:
Ditto for backup, Fam and Milia have no-one but the crew of the Sylvius, who would be flat out repairing their own ship after that.

...before and now you're saying you believe the explanation that silvius (which is damaged at the moment) can retrieve anshar because of the ship's features.
that totally contradicts your statement...

antisense said:
so that just means neither side would be able to retrieve it.

...right?
i dropped the argument that silvius could have recovered anshar, but you picked it up because you are satisfied about the explanation regarding the features of silvius without even considering it was severely damaged. believing what contradicts your earlier arguments is just a way to reject my statements to call it a "fail".

Dec 10, 2011 1:30 AM

#112

Offline

Dec 2011

17

This episode, the ending is inconclusive of what happen to Anshar.

Tatatiana mentioned on earlier episode that that they have a negotiator named Vincent for the Glacies where Dio mentioned about Last Exile in possession of Ades that makes not negotiable.

Lets watch the later episodes and find out.

Don't forget to watch the credits with pictures of the battleships Fam and Gisel captured. If Anshar appeared there, then they captured it.

Dec 10, 2011 1:54 AM

#113

Offline

Apr 2011

69

Den-kun said:

antisense said:
It is indeed a possibility that Anshar fell inside the Glacies border, however it is not the situation you have been basing your arguments on up until now, hence "moving the goalposts". I notice you have dropped the argument that Sylvius could have recovered Anshar if it fell outside the border (absent the point about Sylvius' flight deck, which changes things somewhat).

This discussion began because the end of this episode appeared to suggest that Anshar was captured by Fam, rather than just sunk. I was saying this did not make sense and would constitute a plot hole (though if drunk is correct it may not be so much of one). If you are now saying neither side can claim Anshar if it fell within Glacies' borders, and have no further interest in the possibility that it fell outside Glacies, it seems we have reached agreement.

If it turns out that Anshar was not captured by Fam and Sylvius, then there is nothing to discuss in the first place.

your point doesn't make sense either since you posted...

antisense said:
Ditto for backup, Fam and Milia have no-one but the crew of the Sylvius, who would be flat out repairing their own ship after that.

...before and now you're saying you believe the explanation that silvius (which is damaged at the moment) can retrieve anshar because of the ship's features.

Yes, a logical explanation for why Sylvius might be able to retrieve Anshar without backup while Ades couldn't was introduced that I hadn't thought of, so I revised my opinion. It's good to be able to admit when you're wrong, you should try it sometime.

that totally contradicts your statement...

antisense said:
so that just means neither side would be able to retrieve it.

...right?

Actually it's totally irrelevant to it, since that quote was in reply to your scenario of Anshar falling within Glacies' territory. The "Sylvius has a flight deck" explanation only works if Anshar is outside the border, so that both Ades and Sylvius presumably have access to it.

i dropped the argument that silvius could have recovered anshar, but you picked it up because you are satisfied about the explanation regarding the features of silvius without even considering it was severely damaged. believing what contradicts your earlier arguments is just a way to reject my statements to call it a "fail".

I didn't say I was "satisfied". My exact words: "How they found the time to go pick it up is a little dubious, but at least it's not completely stupid." And it's all irrelevant to my discussion with you, since you have not picked up the point about the flight deck, instead choosing to stick with arguments that don't work at all. I reject your arguments because they don't make sense. I accepted drunk's suggestion because it did.

Dec 10, 2011 1:57 AM

#114

Offline

Apr 2011

69

drunk said:
This episode, the ending is inconclusive of what happen to Anshar.

Tatatiana mentioned on earlier episode that that they have a negotiator named Vincent for the Glacies where Dio mentioned about Last Exile in possession of Ades that makes not negotiable.

Lets watch the later episodes and find out.

Don't forget to watch the credits with pictures of the battleships Fam and Gisel captured. If Anshar appeared there, then they captured it.

The last ship shown in the credits for this episode looked like Anshar to me, but I totally suck at recognising ships, so feel free to laugh at me if I'm wrong.

And yeah, time to watch the latest one and maybe find out.

Dec 10, 2011 2:11 AM

#115

Offline

Dec 2011

17

antisense said:

The last ship shown in the credits for this episode looked like Anshar to me, but I totally suck at recognising ships, so feel free to laugh at me if I'm wrong.

And yeah, time to watch the latest one and maybe find out.

LOL. Anshar have a huge flag. We have no specific information and makes us keep guessing, waiting for the next episode.

Dec 10, 2011 2:29 AM

#116

Offline

Sep 2011

148

antisense said:
I didn't say I was "satisfied". My exact words: "How they found the time to go pick it up is a little dubious, but at least it's not completely stupid."

okay so exact words should be used..

antisense said:
In any case, ----- has pointed out a possible reason why Sylvius would be the only one capable of retrieving the damaged ship, so I'm happy to leave it at that.

now silvius would be the only one capable of retrieving a damaged ship. even its severely damaged? then you should't have posted

antisense said:
You are now moving the goalposts by suggesting that Anshar fell "inside the border" rather than near it, but you still fail because, as I said previously, Sylvius is currently no more welcome inside Glacies' borders than Ades is, so that just means neither side would be able to retrieve it.

right after saying silvius can now retrieve it.

antisense said:
And it's all irrelevant to my discussion with you, since you have not picked up the point about the flight deck, instead choosing to stick with arguments that don't work at all. I reject your arguments because they don't make sense. I accepted drunk's suggestion because it did.

so it makes sense to you that silvius can retrieve anshar even it's severely damaged? then you shouldn't have said...

antisense said:
Ditto for backup, Fam and Milia have no-one but the crew of the Sylvius, who would be flat out repairing their own ship after that. Still doesn't make sense to me.

...because pointing out that silvius is severely damaged but can still retrieve a battle ship sounds more nonsense to me.

Den-kunDec 10, 2011 2:35 AM

Dec 10, 2011 3:31 AM

#117

Tanrim

Offline

Jul 2011

254

Never ceases to amaze me how you can take my post and pick out the most irrelevant parts.

Den-kun said:

Tanrim said:
Could have fooled me. It seemed to me like you kept insolently bring up the same so called fact as a crutch to justify why you thought the Anshar would still be intact. Using it to reinforce the idea that if the ship was low and falling slowly then it wouldn't take much damage. Both of which are your opinions, of course.

*face palm*
you really aren't reading my post carefully aren't you?

I have been reading everything and mulled it over, actually. If you have a problem with it then maybe be constructive and bring up what you think I'm missing?

Den-kun said:

Den-kun said:
those are facts because those scenes are shown in the episode.

is it not??

Tanrim said:
Never saw you ever taking about how what happened below the clouds never matter, though.

*double face palm*
you really are not reading my post.

Den-kun said:
the last shot of anshar slowly sinking was the end of that scene so that's what matters

Den-kun said:
focusing all the attention to a very small detail such as a battle ship being totally wreck because of falling to a lake which the writer didn't even emphasize is just over reacting. i mean it's not even the highlight of the episode it's just a part of the closing scene to show that anshar was scuttled by fam and milia so why do it have to be such a big deal?

just to name a few. you can always read my posts to see for yourself.

The overreaching one I'll give, I obviously looked it over since you were talking to someone else. As for the point about it actually be overreaching, well, ignoring anything that could have happened afterwords is oversimplifying. Anything I've talked about and a lot of what you have too, actually, have been theories based on very limited facts. I'm not ever making a big deal out of it, I've just been stating my opinion when I have a free minute here and there, if it's so unimportant then why keep trying to defend the Anshar being okay with the same tired points over and over?

Den-kun said:

Tanrim said:
I actually said that myself several times in the context of it being moot since right now there's no way to prove what happened after, anyway.

-yeah you said that those are moot points but you keep on stating some real life examples to contradict it. if you're really saying it's a moot point since nothing has been proved yet, then you shouldn't have stated some real life incidents to insist that those results should what happen next.

Actually, I should have. I was giving substance to my opinion that it would have been a wreck. Something to actually discuss. Trying to get substantive theories about what happened is a lot better than saying the ship was falling slowly so it must be okay. One fuels discourse, the other tries to shut it down. Giving real world comparisons is also an open for people with knowledge about how things work to get involved. Of course it is moot because nothing can be proven at this point but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore what happened after going below the clouds. It's a good point to discuss where substance can be brought to the table which I've been trying to do, unlike you.

Den-kun said:

Tanrim said:
I'm well aware it's a guess. I said as much, several times. I never said it in any other regard then what could have happened. Saying nothing changed the entire way down is just as much of a guess on your part, too. Neither can be proven yet so they validate nothing.

-that's why i keep saying my statements are just to justify if ever anshar survives. because you keep calling it magic so i explained it through the scenes of this episode. jeez!

Yet you haven't really explained very much. All you've given, over and over and over again, are a couple flimsy "facts" that ultimately don't prove anything with what we know right now. If it's you trying to state your opinion about the Anshar surviving that's fine but I never said it wasn't.

Den-kun said:

Tanrim said:
You're bringing this up again? I never said either one wasn't a fact, reread my post, I said they don't prove anything.

-you never said either one wasn't a fact??

Tanrim said:
Saying to stay with the facts doesn't really make sense since you haven't provide any yourself.

Tanrim said:
You skirt around them because you don't have any facts to support what you're saying.

^you keep on contradicting your earlier statements. saying i didn't provide some facts is the same as saying what i posted are not facts. if what i stated are not used to justify anshar's survival (if ever it does), then why the hell those scenes are showed in this episode??

This is exactly what I'm taking about when I said I'm amazed how you're able pull out the most irrelevant parts. So, you found an actual contradiction, good for you. However, I find it really hard to believe you're stupid enough to not know what I meant. Really seems like you're grasping at straws here. I'll humor you, though.

Saying to stay with the facts doesn't really make sense since you haven't provide many yourself.

You skirt around them because you don't have many facts to support what you're saying.

There, fixed, happy? Amazing what a single letter can do.

Den-kun said:

Tanrim said:
I never once disputed the Anshar descent, I only said that that fact alone is meaningless without context. Sure, it descended, what? 10 feet? 20? As I said without knowing there altitude before and after that fact can't really be applied to anything. What are you trying to get at with this, anyway? Because they descended they were low? It doesn't prove that at all. Go back to the example I gave. If they started at 30,000 feet and descended 5,000 feet that still puts their altitude at 25,000 feet.

-and you said i'm the one pulling out a crystal ball. yeah right. Again, the one making a fuss about what happened next after anshar's last scene (saying it went to a free fall) is the one making a wild guess. i based my statements that if ever anshar survives it is because of the last scene that was shown which was anshar sinking slowly.

Up till the last few posts you've been wording it like you have some undeniable facts handed to you by the gods. In the end it was never about anything but your opinion backed up by a few flimsy facts, though, correct? Glad you finally agree with me. I'm well aware about it being our opinions, I've been saying that a long time now. Of course that didn't stop me from pointing out that your facts, the one about descending in particular, doesn't really prove anything. It gives weight to your opinion but not a concrete base. Good that you finally admit that. We've both reached the point I've been almost the whole time. Opinions, wonderful things.

Den-kun said:

Tanrim said:
As for watching the episode I have twice, actually, and watched the point around the sinking several more. Nice try, though. Again, they happened but so what? Obscure facts like those without any context to tie it to doesn't really tell you much. If you can provide context then go ahead.

-and there you go saying

Tanrim said:
I can see both sides and know either could be possible with the current facts available

^you can't really say that your ideas are moot points considering how one-sided you are in this statement.

Way to completely miss the point. First of all I can say whatever I want just because the opinion I've been backing in a generally one-sided one it doesn't invalidate what I said. Of course you know that because you completely ignore the real message there because you can't defend it. Without context the descending doesn't prove anything. I say they were 30,000 feet high and dropped 10,000. That puts them at 20,000 feet. You say something else. Are either right? It's impossible to say since we have nothing to back it up with. In the end I'm going to say what I have been for a while and leave it at that. I can see both sides of the wrecked/intact point, I mostly side with the wreck one because it makes the most logical sense with the current information given.

Den-kun said:

Tanrim said:
You don't have to assume it didn't go into a free fall, either. Since nothing was seen after the clouds that's also guessing.

-well, it's not a guess if anshar survived. again if anshar survives that's the answer. if it doesn't then it's inconsistency because the scene where anshar sank slowly is ignored, and totally contradicts the statement "the sky fish hunting was a success".

What Fam said also doesn't prove anything, she's an idiot. Unless you want to tell me that you know for a fact Fam even bothered to check, which you don't, then when stacked up against everything else I'm more inclined to believe she just assumed things were fine. Obviously you don't. We're of two different opinions here. Since neither one can be proven with the current level of information there's nothing really to say beyond that.

Den-kun said:

Tanrim said:
If it's not then prove to me that it did in fact keep going like that. What? Can't do that? Of course you can't. It going into a free fall is possible, nothing more, and I never pretended it was some kind of fact. Just a reasonable possibility. Also, like I said, a lot of what I wrote has to do with my opinion that the Anshar didn't survive.

-since you're making stuff up and telling those are possibilities then why not consider the possibility that it stayed sinking that way? isn't that a possibility as well?? so much for "I can also see both sides" huh? LOL very contradicting.

I did, in fact, consider that it's possible that nothing changed. What's your point? It doesn't mesh with my own opinion, though, so I'm hardly going to bring it up. I've said, like ten times now, that I'm well aware of both sides being possible. There is no contradiction involved, would think you'd be smart enough to realize that. Just because I know that both sides are possible doesn't mean I have to argue both, that would just be stupid.

Den-kun said:

Tanrim said:
In the end it doesn't matter much to me either way. Think I said this already I never really cared about this to begin with

-but you bothered yourself by stating some real life instances to prove your point and coming up with some self produced scenarios. yeah you don't really care about this stuff.

I don't. It's an interesting distraction from the mundane. I'm not sure what kind of illusion you might be under but taking a couple minutes of down time here and there and writing about it hardly denotes genuine care.

Den-kun said:

Tanrim said:
I only weighted in because of what someone else said. I can also see both sides as well so I'm not going to lose any sleep even if the Empress of the Seven Suns himself flying a gold plated, perfectly intact Anshar back to Fam.

-a final sarcasting statement after a long misunderstanding due to your contradicting statements.

Keep telling yourself that, if you wish hard enough some day it might actually come true. Now I am officially done with this topic. I'll probably move on to the next when the times arises. There is really nothing else to say anymore. It come to the point where it's basically just the same thing over and over with different words. It's even degenerated to the point were nothing of substance is even being used anymore. Everything has been done to death at this point. Two different opinions have been presented, both are valid with the current level of information, not going to know more till more is shown. Will leave it at that.

TanrimDec 10, 2011 3:50 AM

Dec 10, 2011 3:57 AM

#118

Offline

Apr 2011

69

Den-kun said:

antisense said:
I didn't say I was "satisfied". My exact words: "How they found the time to go pick it up is a little dubious, but at least it's not completely stupid."

okay so exact words should be used..

antisense said:
In any case, ----- has pointed out a possible reason why Sylvius would be the only one capable of retrieving the damaged ship, so I'm happy to leave it at that.

now silvius would be the only one capable of retrieving a damaged ship. even its severely damaged? then you should't have posted

antisense said:
You are now moving the goalposts by suggesting that Anshar fell "inside the border" rather than near it, but you still fail because, as I said previously, Sylvius is currently no more welcome inside Glacies' borders than Ades is, so that just means neither side would be able to retrieve it.

right after saying silvius can now retrieve it.

antisense said:
...that quote was in reply to your scenario of Anshar falling within Glacies' territory. The "Sylvius has a flight deck" explanation only works if Anshar is outside the border, so that both Ades and Sylvius presumably have access to it.

den-kun said:

antisense said:
And it's all irrelevant to my discussion with you, since you have not picked up the point about the flight deck, instead choosing to stick with arguments that don't work at all. I reject your arguments because they don't make sense. I accepted drunk's suggestion because it did.

so it makes sense to you that silvius can retrieve anshar even it's severely damaged? then you shouldn't have said...

antisense said:
Ditto for backup, Fam and Milia have no-one but the crew of the Sylvius, who would be flat out repairing their own ship after that. Still doesn't make sense to me.

...because pointing out that silvius is severely damaged but can still retrieve a battle ship sounds more nonsense to me.

antisense said:
I didn't say I was "satisfied".

antisense said:
How they found the time to go pick it up is a little dubious

You should really try reading the posts you're replying to. Context is also a good thing.

This is my last post to this thread, if you really must continue this do it on the next one, but I'm getting pretty tired of repeating myself.

Dec 10, 2011 4:39 AM

#119

Offline

Sep 2011

148

@antisense
alright now that last post of yours doesn't make sense anymore. you're now just going in circles and making a fuss about what you exactly said. well anyway, the next episode was shown hopefully you will understand things better.

@Tanrim
you just don't get it because you're mind is set that anshar was split in half. ha ha well good luck on making your own Last Exile: Ginyoku no Fam scenarios. reading your post full of hate especially on fam i can now see that you're just simply a hater of this show. no wonder you're taking it way too far just to have a reason to complain. that explains your opinion. LOL

Den-kunDec 10, 2011 5:05 AM

Dec 10, 2011 4:45 AM

#120

Anzekay

Offline

Apr 2010

300

I don't have any major issues with the idea of the Anshar surviving mostly intact. From what I remember of the claudia fuel mechanics it acts as a method of giving bouyancy rather than an actual fuel for engines (though I suppose it does that too. Maybe part of the combustion/whatever where it is consumed a bouyancy effect is produced). I remember in the first series that whenever claudia engines failed the ships would essentially begin to sink (as if they were seagoing vessles sinking through water) rather than outright drops towards the ground.

So that gives legitimacy that if the Anshar was sunk by having its claudia tanks/pipes penetrated that it would slowly sink down, probably gathering some speed as it nears the end of its claudia reserves and thus it would sustain some damage, but probably not enough to wreck it beyond repair.

Dec 10, 2011 4:52 AM

#121