romagia said: Is it possible to add a "Lost Media" or "Never released on home media" tag? Lost media is an ever changing thing though so that's not a great choice. Something can be lost one moment then found another. The later could work though that also can change. So this stuff may be better added as a note below the synopsis. There already is a section for stuff like that. Im not sure if it's being ised that way though. |
| That slice of life definition is getting bashed a lot and it may indeed be a bit extreme, but it's true that there's a fundamental difference between: - anime that are primarily slice of life, but also happen to have some comedy (Non Non Biyori) - anime that are primarily comedies, but also happen to have some slice of life (Grand Blue) Maybe differentiating between primary and secondary genres might help. "Romantic subtext" wouldn't be necessary since you'd just have "secondary genre: romance". |
Phasmar said: Sorry, I keep forgetting to reply to this. We've been wanting a Country of Origin field for a long time, and once we've added one, it should potentially give the option for more "Type" formats. We haven't discussed the details yet, but we feel it's better to handle it this way, rather than via Themes. Our goal is to keep the Themes list relatively short so that it's not difficult to remember which ones are available.@Kineta I saw in the Google doc that 4-koma and Anthology weren't rejected but were listed as "Manga Format". Sorry if I missed it somewhere but is this "Manga Format" a different feature that will be added i.e. will there be a way to indicate on MAL 4-koma and Anthology series? Also, would 'short stories' (stories that are mostly unrelated to each other (not episodic), like one-shot collections) be included in this format? |
@Kineta so is there going to be a Themes column added on the list later? D: |
| It will be combined with Tags. |
Kineta said: It will be combined with Tags. I see, thank you. I wonder how that will go, because many of us have the tags at or near the maximum number of characters already because of our "mini-reviews" ":D  |
| The new mythology section makes no sense. It replaced demons, so demons = mythology, like wtf. If it's expanded to fit shows that have any mythological themes then itll engulf every fantasy anime and most supernatural. Literally almost every fantasical theme has roots in mythology. It should be turned back into demons, renamed to something else, or just be removed. Personally I always thought it should be called Exorcism, since that term is often used for shows that focus on fighting demons, vampires, or other monsters. It's also kinda weird that shoujo ai and shounen ai now use their english terms but mahou shoujo, iyashikei, and isekai all use their japanese terms. I don't care whether japanese or english terms are used, just keep it consistent. |
Starslayer_Apr 4, 2022 9:15 PM
| @Starslayer_ I already came with a better solution a few posts back. Make it "oni / demon". I suspect the change is because the vagueness of what is considered a demon in anime and that solves it because that's all it is either Western demon or a Japanese oni which can be akin to a demon, ogre or troll basically. |
| Why "CGDCT" when a proper term like "Moe" already exists? Calling the genre "CGDCT" is very informal, it doesn't sound right for an official website. |
-Ryoto-Apr 5, 2022 7:11 AM
MeSsI-AKA-FERNO said: Why "CGDCT" when a proper term like "Moe" already exists? Calling the genre "CGDCT" is very informal, it doesn't sound right for an official website. Moe isn't the same as CGDCT; while most CGDCT are undoubtedly moe, there are moe shows where BOYS do cute things, and also moe shows not centered around doing cute things altogether. |
| Hello can you please watch Kitaku-bu Katsudou Kiroku |
Thrasher96 said: I have been waiting for this moment for a long time, I needed Isekai theme. By the way, will this affect the MAL watching challenge? I noticed that some entries I used before the overhaul are no longer valid after the overhaul. The AWC staff are working on making a post that describes the changes and what can be done to salvage potential issues. But to summarize; if the anime was valid at the time you watched it we are trying our best to find ways to ensure you aren't penalized for these changes. You can potentially use sites like Wayback Machine to get screenshots of anime listings before the changes to show it was valid at the time. You can ask questions/get advice in our AWC Club if you wish, we will respond faster there. Alternatively we have a Discord server as well. |
Aeradae said: Thrasher96 said: I have been waiting for this moment for a long time, I needed Isekai theme. By the way, will this affect the MAL watching challenge? I noticed that some entries I used before the overhaul are no longer valid after the overhaul. The AWC staff are working on making a post that describes the changes and what can be done to salvage potential issues. But to summarize; if the anime was valid at the time you watched it we are trying our best to find ways to ensure you aren't penalized for these changes. You can potentially use sites like Wayback Machine to get screenshots of anime listings before the changes to show it was valid at the time. You can also ask questions/get advice in our AWC Club if you wish, we will respond faster there. I use Wayback Machine a lot, so I'm familiar with it. Since we can rely on it, I don't think we will have to worry that much about the overhaul. Thank you very much for the infos, I will stay tuned for the post. |
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Some of these changes are great, namely:
I understand that some of these points may be more subjective in nature or seem nitpicky and any snarkiness is unintended. I do appreciate the work that the MAL team does for the website. But some of these concerns and others that have gone unaddressed in the thread are valid responses that should be acknowledged as such. Others have surely expressed some of my points in a more eloquent and well-structured manner, so please do consider their insights. |
Romantic Subtext is a narrative which can at first appear to be Romance. These plots feature one or more main couples which seem to have romantic interest in each other, and whose relationship(s) will be central to the main story. However, while the story will set the couple up for heartwarming or embarrassing moments, these encounters will not lead to any significant romantic development, and the characters will not strive to deepen the relationship beyond a certain boundary. Absolutely worthless divide. Also includes 4 series that continues well after they've become a couple in the manga. |
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| Continuation of my (potential) criticism Is every anime going to be labelled either children, shounen, shoujo, seinen or josei now? Or is this only for anime where it's a manga source that has a known demographic and for obvious children's shows? The later is fine but if it is meant for everything this really makes no sense. To begin with the whole demographic thing really is just for manga based on what it's printed in. TV stations and cinemas in Japan aren't exactly strictly divided by gender demographics. At most you may have loose age demographics based on time slots maybe? But it's not really that strictly defined in Japan is it? What happens when an anime or light novel is the original before any manga adaptation? If demographics were applied to everything and you say go with what the later manga is adapted as then following that logic for example Cowboy Bebop would be a shoujo anime because the manga was printed in a shoujo magazine. Does that even make sense to anyone? What if there isn't even a later manga adaptation? Force demographics onto shows just because their genre? That is redundant extra work and makes things get squeezed into labels that were never intended for them and causes demographics to be steriotypes. Even for manga it can get complicated because there are occasionally cases a manga was published in at one time a shounen and a shoujo another does that make it both a shoujo and a shounen or what? I recall in a past thread someone giving an example of this occuring. I can't recall where I saw it. Just want some clarification how the demographic field will be used. |
DoctoRojack said: It already exists though :') Click "Advanced Search" below the search bar on the Anime Search page.Now eagerly waiting for the feature that will allow the filtering of multiple genre/themes at a time. @traed The demographic field is only used for adaptations of a source with a clear demographic OR if the creators specifically state (e.g. in interviews) that a work has been created for a specific demographic. It's always been used this way on the anime side, and will continue to be. It was separated because people think demographics are a genre. It's not a required field. |
DoctoRojack said: Desktop only. Sorry, you'll need to switch to Desktop view to use it.Kineta said: It already exists though :') Click "Advanced Search" below the search bar on the Anime Search page. For desktop only or applicable for mobile too? |
| "Themes" as a descriptor for tags is very ambiguous with the other "themes" term in the MAL world: namely, those visually fancy list "themes" people have designed. When I did a search on themes in MAL forum search I get a billion results referring to list themes (ie. appearance themes people have designed for fancy lists) rather than for themes tags. Terribly ambiguous, I'm afraid. "Subgenre" (or something equally less ambiguous) would've been better. Anyway it's a welcome change (still in progress) long overdue but glad it's happening finally. Just need to get it added as a column to our lists so we can do a filter for certain theme tags (even now I have to add baggage to be clear which "themes" I'm referring to. Now to wrap my head around this Interest Stack business... |
8oomerApr 11, 2022 12:33 PM
| Avatar: Anzu Kadotani from Girls und Panzer. Sig by MissIntrovert.  |
Slice of Life stories are focused on a seemingly random and mundane period of the main characters' lives. The absence of a central plot to carry the story towards a charted destination means Slice of Life stories frequently lack overarching conflict and resolution. While life is not without conflict and Slice of Life neither, here conflict appears and dissipates seemingly at will, without a specific narrative to enforce it. Slow story pacing or episodic storytelling does not equal Slice of Life. Drama/Romance stories can be slow and soft while maintaining a central plot of human/relationship struggle. Comedy stories may lack progress and have mundane settings, but they have narratives focused on eliciting laughter rather than amusing moments happening naturally. Thus, Slice of Life is incompatible with Comedy, Drama, and Romance by definition. I really don't understand the decision to make Slice of Life not include Comedy, Romance and Drama. I would say Romance is a very big part of life as a whole and so Slice of Life should have the ability to be tagged with it. Same with Drama. I'm not well equipt to explain why these things are mutually exclusive, but I just find that life includes romance, drama (as in personal drama's in regards to relationships and the like), and as well as comedy since there certainly are comedic moments in life. Also, Romatic Subtext? What the hell does that even mean? Why does romance need to end with two characters getting together? Is them dating but eventually not deciding to go further with each other suddenly Romantic Subtext? Romance includes all types and stages of dating and romance as a whole so it does not make sense to make a Romantic Subtext theme. |
Kineta said: DoctoRojack said: It already exists though :') Click "Advanced Search" below the search bar on the Anime Search page.Now eagerly waiting for the feature that will allow the filtering of multiple genre/themes at a time. @traed The demographic field is only used for adaptations of a source with a clear demographic OR if the creators specifically state (e.g. in interviews) that a work has been created for a specific demographic. It's always been used this way on the anime side, and will continue to be. It was separated because people think demographics are a genre. It's not a required field. Okay thanks for clarifying. That's good to hear. Though would be nice if there was some more explanation on the logic behind some of the proposed genre/theme tag name changes and sources of the definitions or something. Hard to make suggestions for some without knowing the thought process. |
traed said: Most of the genre definitions were written by combing through book and film genre definitions from various resources for authors/filmmakers, and putting the common threads of them all together. Fantasy and Supernatural get mixed up a lot even in these media, so we tried to separate them in a way that would be easy to understand. Comedy, Drama & Slice of Life are massively over-tagged in our databases, to the point that they are not useful. Anything that has a few jokes is tagged comedy, anything that has a bit of melodrama is tagged drama, and anything that has a slower story-telling pace or soft art is tagged Slice of Life... So we also aimed to have clear definitions of when these would and would not be used.Though would be nice if there was some more explanation on the logic behind some of the proposed genre/theme tag name changes and sources of the definitions or something. Hard to make suggestions for some without knowing the thought process. After the definitions for genres were written, we visually went through the 100 or so most popular anime tagged with those genres to see if they would apply or not, etc. and tried to refine the genre definitions as necessary then. It's highly likely that as we work through 500 or 1,000 entries that there will be changes that still need to be made. It's a work in progress that we're still having weekly or twice weekly meetings (of 3-5 hours each) as we work through the databases to adjust things around and identify changes we'd like to make for next time. For example, we moved Music to themes because we thought it was relatively straightforward and the community could easily help us tag it. But we will probably be shifting it back to genres and tag it only from the moderator side on the next revision. So it's not like the current format is fixed in stone now. I hope this helps explain our thought process a bit better. It's difficult to condense what was 10-15 hours of discussion for one genre alone into a two paragraph definition. I also understand it's difficult to give suggestions now when the anime/manga which appear below them either still need to be modified or is only a preliminary list based on what we could compile in short time. We're doing our best to juggle this along with Guidelines updates, Interest Stacks, and new moderator recruitment. |
| @Kineta Alright thanks. I will just touch on one thing while I have some mental clarity I think current description of Fantasy is off a bit. The mention of Urban Fantasy confuses things because Urban Fantasy isn't the only Fantasy subgenre that takes place on Earth. That actually is Low Fantasy described there instead. Urban Fantasy is a subgenre of Low Fantasy that describes urban cities with fantasy characters as part of that world and may or may not have a very few who can do magic. Magical Realism is I think another low fantasy subgenre where it's magic as normal to our world and people in it rather than some abnormality. Also the wording could be better there just calling it Earth overly limits the actual meaning it's to me more like Low Fantasy is set in a fictionalized version of our Earth where there may be some differences while high fantasy takes place in a world not directly identafiable with our own Earth though may bare some superficial similarities such as having a breathable atmosphere and lifeforms of some kind. https://www.masterclass.com/articles/what-is-the-fantasy-genre-history-of-fantasy-and-subgenres-and-types-of-fantasy-in-literature https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HighFantasy https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LowFantasy https://fictionlit.com/low-fantasy-vs-urban-fantasy/ It's not my only input just something that's easy to resolve. For now I have one other question. How does one determine the boundary between Comedy and Slice of Life when humour is personal and kind of subjective? |
| @traed I agree with your assessment that the current fantasy definition focuses more on how to separate it from Supernatural, rather than what is really fantasy. This makes it sound more like Urban Fantasy indeed. From the entries we've adjusted so far, we're also wondering if Low Fantasy (and maybe Dark Fantasy) might help to include/exclude search better for the type of Fantasy people are looking for... :thinking: Please note that we want to avoid categorizing genres; i.e. the idea that all Fantasy must fit into box A, B, or C. Our approach is more to grab the biggest/most requested box (say A), and let B or C be found with the exclude feature or Interest Stacks. By approaching it with the mentally of include/exclude, we hope to reduce clutter in the themes. With this in mind, if you have any ideas/suggestions for the Fantasy genre, please feel free~ How does one determine the boundary between Comedy and Slice of Life when humour is personal and kind of subjective? While humour is subjective, it's mainly about if the story is trying to set up the jokes or not. TVtropes has a nice paragraph on this. TVTropes said: What separates slice of life as a genre from the literal meaning of the phrase (which would encompass nearly all fiction) is the emphasis on the very moment, with the intent of focusing the audience on that moment rather than using that moment as part of a narrative. For example, a story about hilarious roommate hi-jinx may depict the mundane life of roommates, but these mundane events are usually the setups and punchlines of jokes or part of the conflict between the characters, which takes away their slice-of-life-ness and cements them firmly in the realm of comedy or drama. There will certainly be series that hug the line between them, and we will need to push the series over into one or the other with the no-tag rule. This means in the long term, we may need to relax this restriction and allow both to be tagged. But in the short term, we really need to squash the impulse to overtag anything and everything slice of life. Comedy series are frequently "mundane life" settings after all (gag comedy aside). While I can't think of a good comedy example off the top of my head, I think 3-gatsu no Lion is a good example of a series which hugs the line between Drama and Slice of Life. The series definitely focuses on human struggle, but it incorporates those poignant moments in a very natural pacing that gives you more the feeling of being dropped into this moment of these characters lives. For now, I think it could be tipped over into Slice of Life, but this is a series that may benefit from both tags in the future. Thanks for asking questions one-by-one. This is a lot easier for me to process and reply to vs 5-10 ideas in one post :') |
KinetaApr 13, 2022 1:23 PM
| I hope Gourmet gets moved to themes because it really doesn't fit as a genre. On the opposite Music is much better as a genre, as it can them be divided between the Idols/Showbiz/Performing Arts themes. Also I don't think anyone has really pointed this out yet but I think the distinction between Fantasy and Supernatural is off. With how the definition is now all that's going to do is make the amount of Fantasy show increase a lot. Now there does need to be a distinction because there are way to many things double tagged with both. I believe the fault lies with "If majority of the cast has magical or supernatural powers then the story is Fantasy." This just doesn't seem right. A lot of stories start with the MC living a normal life then all of a sudden something happens and now they have to be around people with powers/magical creatures. Just because majority of the main characters know about it if the rest of the world was still unaware that should still qualify as Supernatural. If the characters aren't flaunting it to everyone they meet and have some sort of secrecy that should still qualify for Supernatural. I think a better distinction would be if the world they live in is aware of the abnormal and treat it as normal then it should be Fantasy. |
| There’s a theme that I really like and was wondering if it were possible to set up notifications for new series added. |
traed said: @Starslayer_ I already came with a better solution a few posts back. Make it "oni / demon". I suspect the change is because the vagueness of what is considered a demon in anime and that solves it because that's all it is either Western demon or a Japanese oni which can be akin to a demon, ogre or troll basically. Yokai may work even better than oni as it encompasses a wider range of Asian demons/spirit beings. |
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| Can you further define what exactly is "Hentai" and "Erotica"? On my MALGraph, there are double entries for SOME of the entries, which kind of triggers my OCD ngl. lol Is this going to be fixed in the future? Or do "Hentai" and "Erotica" mean different things? Because In my mind, they're one and the same. |
I think it's because it can, depending on how strict the definition is, include crossdressing series like Princess Jellyfish or Ouran High School Host Club, and since they split them up they probably didn't want a name that could be misconstrued to mean including both. Magical Gender Bender could've worked too, though not all are the same (particularly body swaps) and could be more fantasy/supernatural/sci-fi so magical might not be the right word. Since gender benders aren't as common in anime as they are in manga, I'm guessing they did it for the latter. |
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TheFlyingOrange said: I think it's because it can, depending on how strict the definition is, include crossdressing series like Princess Jellyfish or Ouran High School Host Club, and since they split them up they probably didn't want a name that could be misconstrued to mean including both. Magical Gender Bender could've worked too, though not all are the same (particularly body swaps) and could be more fantasy/supernatural/sci-fi so magical might not be the right word. Since gender benders aren't as common in anime as they are in manga, I'm guessing they did it for the latter. I don't know, not really a fan of making light novel titles out of the theme names. ''Magical Sex Shift'' sounds so bad |
| Looking forward to see it. |
| Now that i've had some time to get used to the new tags here are some of the things that still seem off 1. The change of name for Demons and Police to Mythology and Detective is weird, because many of my watched titles for these themes are about non-mythological demons, and non-detective police work.. in fact the majority of police tag isn't even in the mystery genre it seems 2. The "Romantic subtext" which i see is basically split into a) episodic romcoms that appeared in the last years, and b) anime that have some romance but not as the main focus I feel these are 2 fundamentally different kinds of anime.. Or just revert them to being only romance, because a lot of older romance tagged anime fit into either of these categories and it's a sisyphean task to try to determine what's "Romance" and what's "Romance subtext" for the 2000 romance anime (and even more which don't have either tag but could be considered romance subtext) Was this tag made just to appease the handful of people who nonironically complain about these anime that they are not "actual romance"? Since the majority are very popular and recent titles 3. The lack of an Individual Sports tag to complement the Team Sports tag; i'm probably one of the few to actively prefer individual sports anime (and not combat either) |
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Kineta said: we plan to pick up popular themes and maintain them in an official list. If this list becomes larger than 100~200 entries, we will transition it from a list to an official site theme. Can we change the limit to 50~100 instead? Currently, there is 1 genre and 14 themes that have less than 100 entries in them. I think it's only fair that if there's enough concrete proof for a theme or genre to be added, then somewhere in that region would be fair. >50 for consideration, >100-150 making a decision. It might be a case where there's only 95 anime that can have a certain theme, but because it's outside the limit you've set, they won't be put up for consideration. |
Reply to Kineta
It will be combined with Tags.
| @Kineta Is this still planned? Any updates on when we might expect to see it? |
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