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Fed up with the U.S., Ukraine cuts deals with China

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Jul 30, 2021 10:25 PM
#1

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Oct 2015
2346
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fed-u-s-ukraine-cuts-deals-china-shuts-about-uyghurs-n1275192

WASHINGTON — Frustrated with the U.S., Ukraine is cutting deals with a rival superpower, inviting China to build infrastructure while holding back criticism of Beijing's human rights record.

Ukraine last month touted agreements with China to build airports, roads and railways in the Eastern European country and expressed gratitude for deliveries of Chinese-made Covid-19 vaccines.


Just days before the cooperation deals were clinched, Kyiv chose to stay silent about China's alleged human rights abuses.

At the U.N. Human Rights Council, Ukraine withdrew its signature from a joint statement calling on China to allow independent observers into the country's Xinjiang region to investigate reports of persecution of Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.

The foreign ministry has yet to offer a rationale for the move, and it did not respond to a request for comment.

Andriy Sharaskin, a member of the Ukrainian parliament's foreign policy committee, said China demanded that Ukraine take its signature off the joint statement and made it clear that promised deliveries of Covid-19 vaccines would be scrapped.


"When Ukraine signed the declaration, China started asking [Ukraine] to withdraw it. And at the same time, they blocked the shipment of the vaccines we already paid for," Sharaskin told NBC News, saying foreign ministry officials briefed him at the time.


Ukraine has struggled to secure a sufficient supply of vaccines and to get shots into arms, with its vaccination rate lagging behind those of most countries in Central and Eastern Europe.

The Associated Press, citing anonymous sources, first reported that China threatened to cancel vaccine shipments if Ukraine did not withdraw its support for the joint letter led by Canada.

China's embassy in Ukraine has publicly denied having exerted any pressure on Ukraine over the joint statement. The Chinese Embassy in Washington did not respond to a request for comment.


In the Ukrainian parliament this month, Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba faced questions about whether the government had taken a U-turn away from the West. He said Ukraine remained committed to "Euro-Atlantic integration" and opposed violations of human rights. He did not say why Kyiv held its fire over China and the Uyghurs.

"As for your question, I can say that we are currently in the process of consultations with our Western partners and China on that issue. As soon as the process ends, we will explain our position," he said.

But Oleksiy Arestovych, adviser to the Ukrainian president's office, later delivered a blunt warning to the U.S. and its allies.

"My main message would be: If the West keeps surrendering Ukraine's interests for a friendship with Russia, Ukraine may turn to the East," Arestovych said July 18.


Ukraine has been in conflict with Russia, its much more powerful neighbor, since 2014, when Moscow invaded and annexed the country's Crimea region. Pro-Russian separatists also control parts of eastern Ukraine, with sporadic clashes continuing along the front line.


Despite Russian opposition, Ukraine's government has vowed to align the country with the European Union and NATO, not Moscow. But Ukraine has grown impatient with its Western allies and believes it requires more support as it tries to counter Russia.

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has made no secret of his bitter disappointment with the Biden administration over how it has handled Russia's planned gas pipeline to Europe, accusing the White House of failing to take decisive action to halt the project, which Kyiv says will give Moscow leverage over European governments.

Zelenskyy also had been asking for a face-to-face meeting with Biden for months, and it was not until last week that the White House announced that Biden would host him for a U.S. visit Aug. 30.


Amid friction with Washington, Ukraine announced infrastructure construction plans with China this month, and Zelenskyy spoke to Chinese President Xi Jinping for the first time. They discussed "the full realization of the potential of bilateral cooperation, especially in the areas of trade and major infrastructure projects," according to a statement from the Ukrainian president's office.


LOL, look, the supposed biggest "victim of communism" started dealing with JUST WHO? Speaks alot about how awful US is that the supposed countrypeople that actually got hindered by the policy of USSR the most making deals with a country with similar ideology.
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Jul 30, 2021 10:31 PM
#2

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Oct 2015
2346
MyJudgementIsBad said:
Wow you're really obsessed with US-China shit aren't you?
Well actually it was because the number person keep bringing up China so I kind of just trying to make a counter news. Same thing happen back then when like that user was posting about Cuba. I posted a lot of counter news about Cuba. If there's like another person posting about another thing related to certain country that I find to be "eh?" You'll most likely find me posting counter news about the said countries.
DesolatedJul 30, 2021 10:35 PM
Jul 30, 2021 11:02 PM
#3

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Oct 2015
2346
MyJudgementIsBad said:
Desolated said:
Well actually it was because the number person keep bringing up China so I kind of just trying to make a counter news. Same thing happen back then when like that user was posting about Cuba. I posted a lot of counter news about Cuba. If there's like another person posting about another thing related to certain country that I find to be "eh?" You'll most likely find me posting counter news about the said countries.

I haven't seen that user post any threads on China, or Cuba for that matter, lately. If it's just to counter his/her posts, it seems like a bit much to post a bunch of threads to that.
They mostly talk as a reply. I usually also put it on reply section instead of creating threads like this if it's still a related topic or if the source of it are say, youtube videos or twitter recording on what's happening in the place.
Aug 1, 2021 7:22 AM
#4

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Jun 2019
6247
Desolated said:
MyJudgementIsBad said:
Wow you're really obsessed with US-China shit aren't you?
Well actually it was because the number person keep bringing up China so I kind of just trying to make a counter news. Same thing happen back then when like that user was posting about Cuba. I posted a lot of counter news about Cuba. If there's like another person posting about another thing related to certain country that I find to be "eh?" You'll most likely find me posting counter news about the said countries.

Are you for real? Creating dozens of threads to upset a single user (@149597871 ) is not a very good sign of intellectual maturity.

I created a thread on Cuba if you want to feed your anti-United States of America propaganda by the way.
Aug 1, 2021 7:40 AM
#5

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Oct 2015
2346
Meusnier said:
Desolated said:
Well actually it was because the number person keep bringing up China so I kind of just trying to make a counter news. Same thing happen back then when like that user was posting about Cuba. I posted a lot of counter news about Cuba. If there's like another person posting about another thing related to certain country that I find to be "eh?" You'll most likely find me posting counter news about the said countries.

Are you for real? Creating dozens of threads to upset a single user (@149597871 ) is not a very good sign of intellectual maturity.

I created a thread on Cuba if you want to feed your anti-United States of America propaganda by the way.
It's more of trying to bury what she said with what I said.

I mean, this also what the media always do. If something which is harmful for their narrative got into the news, they'd try to bury said news by overblowing different news so people would stop discussing the former.

If I'm immature then the whole news media are bunch of immatures.
Aug 1, 2021 7:50 AM
#6

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Jun 2019
6247
Desolated said:
Meusnier said:

Are you for real? Creating dozens of threads to upset a single user (@149597871 ) is not a very good sign of intellectual maturity.

I created a thread on Cuba if you want to feed your anti-United States of America propaganda by the way.
It's more of trying to bury what she said with what I said.

I mean, this also what the media always do. If something which is harmful for their narrative got into the news, they'd try to bury said news by overblowing different news so people would stop discussing the former.

If I'm immature then the whole news media are bunch of immatures.

"She"?

So if people misbehave, that makes it right for you to misbehave too? Flawless logic.

"The media", no need to do over-generalisations, not all media are trying to push some ideological views and go as far as manipulating facts and data.
Aug 1, 2021 7:55 AM
#7

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Oct 2015
2346
Meusnier said:
Desolated said:
It's more of trying to bury what she said with what I said.

I mean, this also what the media always do. If something which is harmful for their narrative got into the news, they'd try to bury said news by overblowing different news so people would stop discussing the former.

If I'm immature then the whole news media are bunch of immatures.

"She"?

So if people misbehave, that makes it right for you to misbehave too? Flawless logic.

"The media", no need to do over-generalisations, not all media are trying to push some ideological views and go as far as manipulating facts and data.
Did I just wrongly assumed the number person's gender?

Also more like, if it's the norm, then I'm just doing it according to the norm. Also what kind of data did I manipulate even?
Aug 1, 2021 7:58 AM
#8

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Jun 2019
6247
Desolated said:
Meusnier said:

"She"?

So if people misbehave, that makes it right for you to misbehave too? Flawless logic.

"The media", no need to do over-generalisations, not all media are trying to push some ideological views and go as far as manipulating facts and data.
Did I just wrongly assumed the number person's gender?

Also more like, if it's the norm, then I'm just doing it according to the norm. Also what kind of data did I manipulate even?

Yes, I think so.

I did not claim that you were manipulating any data, it was in the paragraph about media and media only.
Aug 1, 2021 8:06 AM
#9

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Oct 2015
2346
Meusnier said:
Desolated said:
Did I just wrongly assumed the number person's gender?

Also more like, if it's the norm, then I'm just doing it according to the norm. Also what kind of data did I manipulate even?

Yes, I think so.

I did not claim that you were manipulating any data, it was in the paragraph about media and media only.
Flooding the news with another news isn't a fact manipulation I believe? For instance if someone who's close friends with the governmental people was outed by some independent media outlet of doing embezzlement, then the media which is run by the governmental people who are friends with this guy can keep reporting a news about something else and overblow it such as "a police officer recorded himself singing Indian song REALLY FUCKING GOOD! better than the original singer!" (this was a true story in my country). So people forgot about what happened next with this corrupt person and stop asking the person to be held accountable.

It's just the act of burying the news about corruption with another news. About a singer police officer. The same with what I have done, which is to make people stop with the "Cuba bad" or "China bad" bullshit.
DesolatedAug 1, 2021 8:10 AM
Aug 1, 2021 8:10 AM

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Jun 2019
6247
Desolated said:
Meusnier said:

Yes, I think so.

I did not claim that you were manipulating any data, it was in the paragraph about media and media only.
Flooding the news with another news isn't a fact manipulation? For instance if someone who's close friends with the governmental people was outed by some independent media outlet of doing embezzlement, then the media which is run by the governmental people who are friends with this guy can keep reporting a news about something else and overblow it such as "a police officer recorded himself singing Indian song REALLY FUCKING GOOD! better than the original singer!" (this was a true story in my country). So people forgot about what happened next with this corrupt person and stop asking the person to be held accountable.

That seems like a nice fanfiction, but can you show that something like this did happen? Because what typically happens is that most media outlets would keep spreading the news to sell paper. Remember that your statement was about "all media", and it is an unsustainable one.
Aug 1, 2021 8:33 AM

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Oct 2015
2346
Meusnier said:
Desolated said:
Flooding the news with another news isn't a fact manipulation? For instance if someone who's close friends with the governmental people was outed by some independent media outlet of doing embezzlement, then the media which is run by the governmental people who are friends with this guy can keep reporting a news about something else and overblow it such as "a police officer recorded himself singing Indian song REALLY FUCKING GOOD! better than the original singer!" (this was a true story in my country). So people forgot about what happened next with this corrupt person and stop asking the person to be held accountable.

That seems like a nice fanfiction, but can you show that something like this did happen? Because what typically happens is that most media outlets would keep spreading the news to sell paper. Remember that your statement was about "all media", and it is an unsustainable one.


It was 2011 so it's pretty hard to find the news about it but here, I'll try.


This is the (ex)police officer:
https://www.wowkeren.com/berita/tampil/00007430.html

And this is the corrupt person:
https://nasional.kontan.co.id/news/ada-tiga-transaksi-awal-kasus-malinda-dee-1

People back then was so focused on the police officer life because afterwards and even started documenting his personal life, and he gain lots of money as well as made a lot of concerts, and due to his ever busy singing career and eventually acting (which where he started to flop because unlike singing, he can't act that well) he got fired from police and become full artist. It was aired for like half of the television news duration back then I think.
Aug 1, 2021 9:46 AM
Cat Hater

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Feb 2017
8665
Desolated said:
MyJudgementIsBad said:
Wow you're really obsessed with US-China shit aren't you?
Well actually it was because the number person keep bringing up China


Wait, what? All this effort is because of me? Flattering.

I hardly ever make any threads, though. In fact, all CE threads I have ever made focus on human rights violations (China, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan). That is literally the only theme these threads have in common. I do not do much left-right/Capitalism-Communism/US-China/etc. nowadays. If the US and its allies do something stupid, I will probably try to raise awareness about it as well. You, however, are arguing in bad faith and blindly support China simply because it is anti-US and "socialist" and refuse to admit that they have committed (and are still committing) various atrocities. Arguing with someone like you would be a waste of time.

Meusnier said:
Desolated said:
Did I just wrongly assumed the number person's gender?

Yes, I think so.


Hah

149597871 does not have a gender. I have mentioned before why the entire concept is redundant and should not be taken seriously. However, I will not share my biological sex for obvious reasons. The correct pronouns would probably be they/them, but I will not get offended if you call me he or she.

Also, thank you for mentioning my name. I would not have noticed this conversation otherwise.
149597871Aug 1, 2021 10:08 AM
Aug 2, 2021 12:36 AM

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Sep 2018
4238
This is what China do in Africa and when they cannot pay, they take over and run the strategic ports.

It would be huge for them to get a Chinese base in Europe if Ukraine cannot pay.
Aug 2, 2021 1:45 PM

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Oct 2015
2346
149597871 said:
Desolated said:
Well actually it was because the number person keep bringing up China


Wait, what? All this effort is because of me? Flattering.

I hardly ever make any threads, though. In fact, all CE threads I have ever made focus on human rights violations (China, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan). That is literally the only theme these threads have in common. I do not do much left-right/Capitalism-Communism/US-China/etc. nowadays. If the US and its allies do something stupid, I will probably try to raise awareness about it as well. You, however, are arguing in bad faith and blindly support China simply because it is anti-US and "socialist" and refuse to admit that they have committed (and are still committing) various atrocities. Arguing with someone like you would be a waste of time.

Meusnier said:

Yes, I think so.


Hah

149597871 does not have a gender. I have mentioned before why the entire concept is redundant and should not be taken seriously. However, I will not share my biological sex for obvious reasons. The correct pronouns would probably be they/them, but I will not get offended if you call me he or she.

Also, thank you for mentioning my name. I would not have noticed this conversation otherwise.
Because if AES fails, socialism fails (at least for some few centuries because we won't see another revolution against the bourgeoisie until centuries later). And I really wish to be able live my life witnessing total world socialism being achieved. I'm pretty skeptical to be able to see worldwide communism though.

Also eh? I thought you're female because of your seemingly insulting remarks against constructivism by saying "genders are spook!" in a way that people wouldn't think that you're being real. Also about your remarks against trans woman in sports lead me to believe that you're a TERF, in which I never found a male-TERF so that I assumed that you're female before. Good if you mean it when you said genders are spook I guess.
Aug 3, 2021 6:14 AM

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Sep 2010
1227
And that's how commies conquer - they took the weak "under their wing", wait until they get better and then one day casually ask for a "small favor", you know, since "we're friends". This tactic sounds oddly familiar, but I just can't point my finger... nah, must be my imagination!
So, it means that China supports both Russia and Ukraine? Supporting both sides of conflict, how utterly capitalistic thing to do! How could they?! They supposed to be morally strong people who will not sell their principles over some dirty money! Oh, wait, they're not and never was.
Also, funny how utterly right-wing country support country that is trying hard to be utterly left-wing. So much for strong political principles.

There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value.

Persona anime are good. Deal with it.
Aug 3, 2021 6:59 AM

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Oct 2015
2346
kitsune0 said:
And that's how commies conquer - they took the weak "under their wing", wait until they get better and then one day casually ask for a "small favor", you know, since "we're friends". This tactic sounds oddly familiar, but I just can't point my finger... nah, must be my imagination!
So, it means that China supports both Russia and Ukraine? Supporting both sides of conflict, how utterly capitalistic thing to do! How could they?! They supposed to be morally strong people who will not sell their principles over some dirty money! Oh, wait, they're not and never was.
Also, funny how utterly right-wing country support country that is trying hard to be utterly left-wing. So much for strong political principles.

LMAO.

The ideology of CPC is Marxism-Leninism.

Marxism-Leninism is anything BUT dogmatic. There's a reason why Marxism-Leninism has developed into a lot of branch of thinking such as Mao Zedong Thought, Kimilsungism-Kimjongilism, Ho Chi Minh Thought, Deng Xiaoping Thought, and more recently, Xi Jinping Thought.

A Marxist-Leninist state will adapt their ideology to apply to their country material conditions, using rational deduction and calculation.

A Marxist-Leninist is not an Ultra-leftist who ARE strictly dogmatic. These ultra-leftists ideas are more than often, utopian. Whether it be Utopian socialists, Anarchists, Trotskyist, Leftcoms, or Shining Path's "Maoist", most of their ideas aren't based on realpolitik.

For China's case, making deal with the rich capitalist countries to gain a lot of profits from them is a way to (eventually) reach socialism. Helping poorer countries building their infrastructure and forming alliance with them is also a way to reach socialism. Contrary to what the Shining Path's"Maoists" believe, the Deng Xiaoping Thought is not imperialist. Robin Hood, who steal from the rich to give back to the poor, is a hero instead of an imperialist. Because the system is so rigged that the rich will get richer, and that the poor would become poorer. And China, as the world's Robin Hood, are trying to fight against such system. With such trades that improves China's material conditions, eventually China would be able to be self-reliant and reach socialism, where the special economic zones are no longer needed.
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