| - In the midst of his re-election campaign, Netanyahu arrives today for a speech at the congress. The US administration was not consulted or informed in advance. The invitation came from republican leaders. - He will oppose a possible diplomatic deal on Iran's nuclear energy - More than 30 Democrats have threatened to skip the speech. Obama will not receive him. - As an interviewed Israeli professor said : "Can anyone else stand up in Congress and talk so forcefully against the leader of the United States? This has an effect on voters in Israel. People sit at home and say this man really steps up to the pressure.” Sources This politics professor from Harvard summarises well how the Israeli lobby influence the US foreign policy and with Iran in particular. He brings Japan at the end in an interesting way. |
OkiuraMar 2, 2015 8:23 AM
| Your title is misleading. It says that Netanyahu doesn't know anything about US politics. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| Nice video by the way. I wonder what will come of the speech. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| Netanyahu represents just about everything I hate about modern politics and how propaganda influences large numbers of people. He can be as aggressive as any other middle eastern power commonly detested by the western world for religiously-fueled murder, and furthermore he's allowed to commit genocide and hold up a group of ethnic peoples in a concentration camp without anybody in the west saying anything, "because it says here in the history books holocaust. It clearly says holocaust. Israel can't be doing anything wrong, and if we say they are we're anti-semitic. And we're definitely not anti-semitic, no way." |
| Dat slow going genocide though....what's it been, 60 years? |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Dat slow going genocide though....what's it been, 60 years? Still technically genocide. A group of people is being imprisoned and killed based on their race or beliefs. |
xEmptiness said: "if we follow what SW is suggesting, nihilism is the conclusion" |
Okiura said: - In the midst of his re-election campaign, Netanyahu arrives today for a speech at the congress. The US administration was not consulted or informed in advance. The invitation came from republican leaders. - He will oppose a possible diplomatic deal on Iran's nuclear energy - More than 30 Democrats have threatened to skip the speech. Obama will not receive him. - As an interviewed Israeli professor said : "Can anyone else stand up in Congress and talk so forcefully against the leader of the United States? This has an effect on voters in Israel. People sit at home and say this man really steps up to the pressure.” Sources This politics professor from Harvard summarises well how the Israeli lobby influence the US foreign policy and with Iran in particular. He brings Japan at the end in an interesting way. How has the White House not been informed?This has been discussed for weeks in the media. |
| Actually, it was US Congress that invited him, and failed to go through cursory channels to notify the State Department and White House as a repatriation on several of the Obama Administration's questionable unilateral moves, particularly immigration. However, even then the administration still had plenty of time to respond, as the request itself was a matter of record that had to be disclosed. It was a breach of protocol, not a sneaking around the back kind of deal. Sneaking around backs is more Obama's forte. OP makes it sound like it was Netanyahu who went out of his way to snub the President. He didn't even have a real chance to do so. OP also makes it sound like this is a huge deal, but it's really just tit-for-tat between the least transparent Presidential administration in my lifetime and its political opponents. Finally, OP makes it sound like Bibi is recalcitrant and unreasonable on Iran - he merely opposes any deal that results in a nation that openly vows to destroy his gaining nuclear capability or nuclear latency - he'd be fine with any deal that actually prevents that. But nobody who doesn't suffer from unrealistic optimism seriously believes that Obama's initiatives have much chance of stopping Iran's nuclear weapons program. OP seems to like playing propagandist. |
| Netanyahu is the scum of the Earth, and the sooner he's gone, the better. |
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| Man I can't stand that fagget Netanyahu, just when you look at him you can tell he's full of bs. |
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ErwinJA said: Actually, it was US Congress that invited him, and failed to go through cursory channels to notify the State Department and White House as a repatriation on several of the Obama Administration's questionable unilateral moves, particularly immigration. However, even then the administration still had plenty of time to respond, as the request itself was a matter of record that had to be disclosed. It was a breach of protocol, not a sneaking around the back kind of deal. Sneaking around backs is more Obama's forte. OP makes it sound like it was Netanyahu who went out of his way to snub the President. He didn't even have a real chance to do so. OP also makes it sound like this is a huge deal, but it's really just tit-for-tat between the least transparent Presidential administration in my lifetime and its political opponents. Finally, OP makes it sound like Bibi is recalcitrant and unreasonable on Iran - he merely opposes any deal that results in a nation that openly vows to destroy his gaining nuclear capability or nuclear latency - he'd be fine with any deal that actually prevents that. But nobody who doesn't suffer from unrealistic optimism seriously believes that Obama's initiatives have much chance of stopping Iran's nuclear weapons program. OP seems to like playing propagandist. You know, we can discuss without referencing to each other in the third person. Personally, I don't think that bringing up the current disputes between the administration and the republicans could be enough to minimise what happened. A speech that drove 200 ex-generals and intelligence officials to gather and warn him that it would simply end the special relation with the US and bring Iran closer to the bomb, and made top WH officials call it 'destructive' for the bipartisan support of Israel. It is certain that I've never seen a leader of a country address the parliament of another sovereign state without priorly communicating with its government. Do you know of a precedent ? You have the right to believe it is a sincere omission due to an impossibility to have a chance to make a phone call, but it's not the perception of everyone. Finally, for the "propaganda" part, I think I can still learn a lesson or two from Netanyahu and his supporters. |
Okiura said: You spout propaganda, I'll call it.ErwinJA said: Actually, it was US Congress that invited him, and failed to go through cursory channels to notify the State Department and White House as a repatriation on several of the Obama Administration's questionable unilateral moves, particularly immigration. However, even then the administration still had plenty of time to respond, as the request itself was a matter of record that had to be disclosed. It was a breach of protocol, not a sneaking around the back kind of deal. Sneaking around backs is more Obama's forte. OP makes it sound like it was Netanyahu who went out of his way to snub the President. He didn't even have a real chance to do so. OP also makes it sound like this is a huge deal, but it's really just tit-for-tat between the least transparent Presidential administration in my lifetime and its political opponents. Finally, OP makes it sound like Bibi is recalcitrant and unreasonable on Iran - he merely opposes any deal that results in a nation that openly vows to destroy his gaining nuclear capability or nuclear latency - he'd be fine with any deal that actually prevents that. But nobody who doesn't suffer from unrealistic optimism seriously believes that Obama's initiatives have much chance of stopping Iran's nuclear weapons program. OP seems to like playing propagandist. You know, we can discuss without referencing to each other in the third person. Personally, I don't think that bringing up the current disputes between the administration and the republicans could be enough to minimise what happened. A speech that drove 200 ex-generals and intelligence officials to gather and warn him that it would simply end the special relation with the US and bring Iran closer to the bomb, and made top WH officials call it 'destructive' for the bipartisan support of Israel. It is certain that I've never seen a leader of a country address the parliament of another sovereign state without priorly communicating with its government. Do you know of a precedent ? You have the right to believe it is a sincere omission due to an impossibility to have a chance to make a phone call, but it's not the perception of everyone. Finally, for the "propaganda" part, I think I can still learn a lesson or two from Netanyahu and his supporters. I actually dislike Netenyahu, but that doesn't mean I can't see where he comes from, respect his opinions and reasoning, and decry inappropriate attacks on him. I did the same for Bush, even though I never once voted for him and openly opposed many of his policies. I often do the same for Obama, even though I never once voted for him and openly oppose many of his policies, as well as his petulant attitude. What you're citing is over 90% propaganda. Obama hates Netenyahu, and Netenyahu's Israel, and not with particularly good reason. This has been obvious through almost the entire duration of Obama's presidency. Even well before the leaks and mike moment, there was the lopsided precondition imposed on Israel during his first shot at facilitating negotiations with Palestine. It was either abject stupidity or done in bad faith, and graduated to pure bad faith - negotiation 101 here. This hatred is in part because Obama makes no effort to understand Netenyahu's, or Israel's, mentality. This is true of almost the entire liberal establishment, including most non-conservative media, both in the US and Europe. And for their part, Israeli hawks like Netenyahu return that hatred, but mainly on the grounds that they see themselves as mistreated for petty and inappropriate reasons. But make no mistake. Netenyahu would not do anything that he honestly thought would seriously threaten the current relationship between the US and Israel unless he thought it was in imminent danger of disintegrating anyway or he was combating a greater perceived threat. And the threat of a nuclear Iran has not only him, but much of Israel, absolutely terrified - it's seen as more likely than not leading to a nuclear attack on Israel one way or another. Likewise, it appears to him, and not without reason, that Obama has always wanted to destroy Israel's relationship with the US. It was Obama who decided to negotiate with Tehran in secret without even telling Israel. It was Obama who steadfastly demanded preconditions of Israel in negotiating with Palestinians while not imposing any on the Palestinians. It was Obama who kept Israel in the dark as to the ongoing negotiations with Iran. And considering Obama was willing to sell UK state secrets to Russia as nothing more than a gesture of good will, the Israelis have every reason to suspect and fear the intentions and results of these negotiations. The truth is Obama is desperate for any deal that he can tout as a triumph, and everyone knows it. Especially Iran and Israel. So, with all the snubbing he's getting from Obama, and the perception that the survival of his nation is at stake, he'd naturally jump at the chance to come here and make his case - snubbing Obama, while nice (to him at least), was likely an afterthought, if intended at all. Besides, he still had to go through proper channels for travel to the United States. It's not like he was invited by congress so he just hopped onto a plane and flew over the next day. It's also not like Democrats haven't gone off to talk to leaders of nations hostile to the US during the Bush years. The main difference is the GOP got an ally who still wants to work with us, and invited him here instead of travelling there. Support for Israel is also fragmented at best. While much of the Democrat establishment hates Israel almost as a knee-jerk reaction, many of the politically active Jews will continue to support it through thick and thin. They will also not abandon the Democrat party unless it literally hands a nuclear weapon to Tehran that later shows up in Tel Aviv. Jews have always been leftists, and their financial resources are important to the Democrat party, which conversely may be the main reason Obama hasn't already dumped Israel. Republicans, on the other hand, are on more of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" line of thought. As a stable democracy sharing similar values to us, they're seen not just as an ally in the fight against Islamic extremism, but as an example on how to conduct it and a counter to the discreet and open support for extremists found in almost every other nation in the region. Oh yeah: Do notice that I left out all the right-wing hoopla about a former Obama aide working to oust Netenyahu. That's disturbingly normal, and has worked both ways for a long time. It's nothing new or unusual, and therefore not worth commenting on beyond the obvious "we should fix that." As such, that's just propaganda too, and should be ignored. |
ErwinJAMar 2, 2015 3:40 PM
Zergneedsfood said: ErwinJA said: This is true, in some senses, but a lot of the Orthodox Jews that I have met in New York City often were hardcore conservatives, so I don't think we can paint all members of the Jewish community in the same color on this one.Jews have always been leftists, and their financial resources are important to the Democrat party, which conversely may be the main reason Obama hasn't already dumped Israel. Oh man, have you walked around Williamsburg on the west side of where the williamsburg bridge comes from manhattan? That's my favorite neighborhood in New York. It's like 20,000 of these guys. They will not look you in the eye. Or at least they won't look me in the eye when I'm walking around with a huge backpack and a guitar.  |
xEmptiness said: "if we follow what SW is suggesting, nihilism is the conclusion" |
ErwinJA said: So, with all the snubbing he's getting from Obama, and the perception that the survival of his nation is at stake, he'd naturally jump at the chance to come here and make his case - snubbing Obama, while nice (to him at least), was likely an afterthought, if intended at all - We finally agree Netanyahu snubbed him then. Because your previous 'He didn't have a chance' argument was (falsely) naive. - If you seriously believe that the survival of the only nuclear power in the region and strongest ally of the most powerful nation on earth, is at stake, I'm afraid you've already been propaganded. ErwinJA said: Obama hates Netenyahu, and Netenyahu's Israel, and not with particularly good reason. Democrates hate Israel So much hate Obama offered Israel higher military financing than all his predecessors combined. As this FP article says, no president in history has done more for Israel’s security than him. International relations are based on nations' long lasting interests. Psychlogizing interpretations of foreign policy based on presumed "hateful" moods of individual leaders are misleading - besides from being at the level of a partisan TV commentator on a fox news regional channel. The fact that Obama didn't inform him about discussions with Iran, or that he pressured him on settlements, are insufficient to draw conclusions on the personal feelings he proves towards Netanyahu. Why would he obliged to take permission to talk with Iran ? Don't you think freezing settlements (Israeli govt love to portray this as a "precondition") is the most axiomatic thing to do before sitting on table negotiating a possible Palestine independence ? Even when you still consider these as lese majesty crimes against Netanyahu, they were never as direct, public, and humiliating as this "retaliation". |
OkiuraMar 2, 2015 7:23 PM
Working_Designs said: Netanyahu is the scum of the Earth, and the sooner he's gone, the better. Ramkec said: Man I can't stand that fagget Netanyahu, just when you look at him you can tell he's full of bs. |
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Zergneedsfood said: ErwinJA said: This is true, in some senses, but a lot of the Orthodox Jews that I have met in New York City often were hardcore conservatives, so I don't think we can paint all members of the Jewish community in the same color on this one.Jews have always been leftists, and their financial resources are important to the Democrat party, which conversely may be the main reason Obama hasn't already dumped Israel. There are even ultra-orthodox Jews who are against the creation of Israel and believe that it is sinful to immigrate there. |
Space-Wizard said: RedRoseFring said: Dat slow going genocide though....what's it been, 60 years? Still technically genocide. A group of people is being imprisoned and killed based on their race or beliefs. Yeah, about that.....it generally doesn't result in population increases. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Space-Wizard said: Still technically genocide. A group of people is being imprisoned and killed based on their race or beliefs. Yeah, about that.....it generally doesn't result in population increases. Israel isn't dumb. If they wiped a larger number of Palestinians out, the majority of brainwashed North Americans would see how evil they really are. That's why they do it in "Small Bursts." Israel WILL fall within our lifetime if its government/army continues the way they are now. |
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Okiura said: ErwinJA said: So, with all the snubbing he's getting from Obama, and the perception that the survival of his nation is at stake, he'd naturally jump at the chance to come here and make his case - snubbing Obama, while nice (to him at least), was likely an afterthought, if intended at all - We finally agree Netanyahu snubbed him then. Because your previous 'He didn't have a chance' argument was (falsely) naive. - If you seriously believe that the survival of the only nuclear power in the region and strongest ally of the most powerful nation on earth, is at stake, I'm afraid you've already been propaganded. Nope. I never stated he intentionally snubbed Obama. I said that if he did, it was probably an afterthought. What he actually did is, after accepting the invitation, contacted the White House and offered to meet with Obama directly. Which, of course, means he kind of notified the White House. ErwinJA said: Obama hates Netenyahu, and Netenyahu's Israel, and not with particularly good reason. Democrates hate Israel So much hate Obama offered Israel higher military financing than all his predecessors combined. As this FP article says, no president in history has done more for Israel’s security than him. I'll also give you a big hint on rooting out propaganda. Administrations and their backers love to take credit for the results of a previous administration's actions, as these take years to be implemented and the original source can be conveniently forgotten. I mean, it wouldn't be surprising if Bush started it. And lightning can strike twice (pun not intended). The other things cited are mostly also practices that either predate Obama or arose from other sources, like Congress. Well, at least that means you can blame Bush for Israel :P The biggest thing he did that can't be attributed to anyone else was authorizing the sale of GBU-28 "Bunker Buster" bombs to Israel, but that was mainly in relation to Iran's then-refusal to negotiate - good to have someone else take the risks of an attack. International relations are based on nations' long lasting interests. Psychlogizing interpretations of foreign policy based on presumed "hateful" moods of individual leaders are misleading - besides from being at the level of a partisan TV commentator on a fox news regional channel. The fact that Obama didn't inform him about discussions with Iran, or that he pressured him on settlements, are insufficient to draw conclusions on the personal feelings he proves towards Netanyahu. Why would he obliged to take permission to talk with Iran ? Don't you think freezing settlements (Israeli govt love to portray this as a "precondition") is the most axiomatic thing to do before sitting on table negotiating a possible Palestine independence ? Actually, if relationships are about interests and not people, than this "snub" is not a threat to the relationship either, now is it? It's a personal spat and everyone knows it. And it's hardly the level of Obama officially sending an ultimatum to Netenyahu making explicit demands for his country's domestic policy. And it's not like Netenyahu's openly insulting Obama like Obama has done to him. Even when you still consider these as lese majesty crimes against Netanyahu, they were never as direct, public, and humiliating as this "retaliation". As for the settlements, take some courses or read a few real books on negotiation. One of the most important rules is no preconditions. Any side that demands something, while offering nothing, just to get to the negotiating table is acting in bad faith. And anyone forced to do that is going to be upset from the get-go and less likely to attempt to reach an agreement so much as save face and turn the tables. When imposed by third parties, preconditions give the one that benefits an incentive not to negotiate, and act in bad faith to break off negotiations so they can try to leverage additional concessions without giving anything in return. That's just the basics. Almost nobody other than Israel either suggested or offered gestures from the Palestinians, and yet when Israel did a "partial" freeze, with nothing in return, it was not enough to even get the Palestinians to negotiate. They and Obama wanted more. For nothing. And from the Israeli standpoint, these people were offering nothing, as negotiations with someone who doesn't want to negotiate only waste time. Yet, somehow Israel was the one in the wrong who needed to be pressured. Unless Obama is indeed that stupid, he was not acting in good faith as he continued to pressure the Israelis instead of the Palestinians, and continued to fail to try to get a reciprocal Palestinian concession. Yes, he was understandably furious about the settlement announcement during Biden's trip, but also disturbingly quick to lay blame and unleash his wrath. And everything was his fault to begin with! Settlements were not a major obstacle before this, but even now, it's not like there's nothing the Palestinians can do in return. They can remove the violent extremist propaganda from state-run TV and radio. They can rename the schools and streets that honor mass murderers. They could work with the Israeli's on Israel-backed community outreach, which is often blocked by the Palestinian government (familiarity breeds understanding, and reduces conflict. That's bad for business). Why they could even reciprocate what Netenyahu did as one of the other preconditions (what, you thought there was only one?) and openly accept the notion of a Jewish nation! All of these are simple and easy, but meaningful, gestures. Even just one of them would show they might have some actual interest in negotiating. But they don't and won't so long as they think they can achieve their goals without concessions through other avenues. |
ErwinJAMar 2, 2015 11:34 PM
Zergneedsfood said: Okiura said: Really? I've never heard about that before. TILThere are even ultra-orthodox Jews who are against the creation of Israel and believe that it is sinful to immigrate there. |
| After the terror attack on that Jewish supermarket, Netanyahu said that Jewish people should move to Israel in response. He is smart enough to know that doing so will not save lives, but will place the lives of many people, inside and outside Israel, Jewish and not Jewish, in grave danger. People will die because of it, and he knows damn well that they will. Now of course the blame in such a circumstance rests with those who commit the terror attack, but if you are doing something which you know will encourage them, you're not exactly innocent either. Worst of all, he will not be the victim- others will be. Obama's criticism of his speech was pretty fair. He didn't say anything new, and it was in a likelihood a political stunt for the home crowd. |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
| Israel is like a spoiled little child. "Give me this! I want that! Wah! Wah! I hate you daddy! You didn't give me that those new missiles!" I remember just last year during the whole scuffle with the Palestinians one of those kifes had the audacity to say that "America has gravely betrayed and insulted the Israeli people." When John Kerry suggested that they hold peace talks with the opposition in a neutral place(Egypt) After the US had just sent them hundreds of millions of dollars for missile defense systems that were the reason their cities weren't in shambles over rocket bombardments. I'm glad I don't pay US taxes, cause I'd never want a cent of my tax money to go to those useless money sucking parasites. |
| I am on the edge ! The edge of the edgiest edge ever edged by edgekind ! я умерте ужасну депрессии... |
Working_Designs said: I believe its referred to as "trimming the lawn"RedRoseFring said: Yeah, about that.....it generally doesn't result in population increases. Israel isn't dumb. If they wiped a larger number of Palestinians out, the majority of brainwashed North Americans would see how evil they really are. That's why they do it in "Small Bursts." Israel WILL fall within our lifetime if its government/army continues the way they are now. The millions of foreign aid we send overseas would be better served here. Other nations have better infrastructure, education, health care but the richest nation in the world is struggling outside of its elites. The prospect would be political suicide though- specially in Israels case. Youd think if appealing to americans humanity didnt work at least to their inner greed would. |
Working_Designs said: RedRoseFring said: Yeah, about that.....it generally doesn't result in population increases. Israel isn't dumb. If they wiped a larger number of Palestinians out, the majority of brainwashed North Americans would see how evil they really are. That's why they do it in "Small Bursts." Israel WILL fall within our lifetime if its government/army continues the way they are now. I see. So take out a miniscule percent of a population while it continues to grow and the rate of growth increases and your resources get drained for over half a decade. Brillent! Why didn't any other despots think of it! I'm guessing we should be overjoyed at the thought of the innocent Arab nations wiping that vile Israel off the map and freeing themselves from its evil outnumbering presence. I guess bonus points would also include that they will no longer control all the world's media too and we'll finally acknowledge the Palestinians as the peace-loving people they truly are. |
RedRoseFringMar 3, 2015 7:26 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| It's going to be pretty funny when Israel does something stupid enough to get the west to stop supporting them to save face. They are going to get curbstomped by their neighbors. |
xEmptiness said: "if we follow what SW is suggesting, nihilism is the conclusion" |
| FUCK ISRAEL!!! The American government and GOP are Israel's little bitch..... Did anyone see the way Congress were salivating at this Jew and his war mongering? Jesus fuck, what a bunch of brown nosing disgusting fucks. |
| If Netanyahu thinks Iran will go down as easily as Iraq he's seriously mistaken. If there's one thing Iran's president has shown us over the past few years is that he's not afraid to go to war against Israel even if the US is backing them up. To those who say it's unlikely that the US will support Israel because of their current cooperation with Iran you don't know the US at all. The US is not afraid to stab their allies in the back. |
Space-Wizard said: It's going to be pretty funny when Israel does something stupid enough to get the west to stop supporting them to save face. They are going to get curbstomped by their neighbors. Pakistan did far worse(Bangdalesh genocide, Actually Building a nuke which would have destroyed India if China didn't help India build there own, , Helping Taliban and Al Qaeda) and America still supports them |
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Moneyburns said: Space-Wizard said: It's going to be pretty funny when Israel does something stupid enough to get the west to stop supporting them to save face. They are going to get curbstomped by their neighbors. Pakistan did far worse(Bangdalesh genocide, Actually Building a nuke which would have destroyed India if China didn't help India build there own, , Helping Taliban and Al Qaeda) and America still supports them Israel has nuclear weapons too. And unlike Pakistan, there's zero international inspection or any cooperation. Also Pakistani nuclear development was in response to India's program, not the opposite (*check* India's first nuclear test 1974, Pakistan in 1998). For Al-Qaeda origins it was of course ordered by the US during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Even Clinton acknowledged it. |
Space-Wizard said: It's going to be pretty funny when Israel does something stupid enough to get the west to stop supporting them to save face. They are going to get curbstomped by their neighbors. Track record proves otherwise. Dem neighbours will really have to step up their game, or put a little more allahu in their ackbar ;) |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
navarr0 said: Even if the US cut of all military/financial aid, Saudi Arabia and Israel still hold hundreds nukes. Israel's crying because they know they won't be able to handle Iran by themselves. Iran's not the same as it was decades ago. It's a new country. The US knows this too. I'm glad that Iran stepped up their game over the past decade considering how much shit they had to go through for so long. I'm happy. Also, Iran is more than willing to cooperate with Israel. |
| JustALEX, while I have no reason to defend Israel or Netanyahu, I think you should be a bit more cautious about how you express your disdain for them. Because this sentence here struck me as quite anti-semitic: JustALEX said: Did anyone see the way Congress were salivating at this Jew and his war mongering? Do you see what I mean? "This Jew" is used like an insult. It's not only recalls an ugly part of history and is unfair to those members of the Jewish faith who do not support Israel, but it also discredits you and others who condemn the man and the actions of Israel. I know this wasn't your intention, but I thought you should know that is how it can come across and you should be very careful about it. |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
NudeBear said: I'm glad that Iran stepped up their game over the past decade considering how much shit they had to go through for so long. I'm happy. Yeah, I'm also happy for the regime that kills protestors, whips/hangs homosexuals, and sentences "apostates" and adulterers to death. Because, you know, they aren't white or Jewish. Which means they are automatically the good guys. |
| Let's go bowling. |
| You guys really need to learn how to be secretly anti-Semitic. I mean, let's be clear, we all agree that the end goal is to finally finish what the Führer started, but you can't go out TELLING people that you hate Jews or they might catch on. Less "Fuck the ZOG war machine!" and more "Palestine shall be free!" |
| Let's go bowling. |
FGAU1912 said: beening anti Israel does not make anti Semitic the Palestinians are Semites too as are most people in that aera Jews are killing Semites the jew ae anti Semitic Well now you're just arguing semantics, but even your semantics are wrong. Common usage dictates that "anti-Semitic" is a term which exclusively describes the hatred/persecution of Jews. And being anti-Israel kind of does make you an anti-Semite. The only reason you want Israel destroyed is because they are the Jewish state. That's the only reason anybody is anti-Israel. I'm willing to accept that you might not be really anti-Semitic, and are probably just the useful tool of the anti-Semites, but a dumb stormtrooper is still a stormtrooper. FGAU1912 said: 69 Borders is what most seinebale people want thats what i want You can't reject a deal, invade a country, get your ass kicked, and then whine that you want the old deal now that you lost. That's just being a sore loser. |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: FGAU1912 said: And being anti-Israel kind of does make you an anti-Semite.beening anti Israel does not make anti Semitic the Palestinians are Semites too as are most people in that aera Jews are killing Semites the jew ae anti Semitic No. There's plenty of Jewish people who also hate Israel. Anti-Zionism does NOT equal Anti-Semitism. |
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| Netanyahu speaks for all Jews. It has been decreed by Netanyahu. Criticizing Netanyahu is anti-semitism. |
FGAU1912 said: You are looking from this at the wrong angle. The vast majority of Arabs are not initially Anti-Israel, they are Anti-Semitic. In fact the nation of Isreal was made in large part due to this alarmingly large Anti-Semitic sentiment within the middle east.beening anti Israel does not make anti Semitic the Palestinians are Semites too as are most people in that aera Jews are killing Semites the jew ae anti Semitic  Very popular book in areas with a high density of Arabs. I'm not pointing fingers or anything, just observing trends. |
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Working_Designs said: Anti-Zionism does NOT equal Anti-Semitism. At this point it really kind of does. The only thing that defines an anti-Zionist is his hatred/rejection of Israel's legitimacy. He may use a thousand different ways to say it, and may have a thousand different reasons behind his hatred/rejection, but it all boils down to one, simple concept: "Israel is a nation of Jews, therefore it is evil." The solutions the anti-Zionist provides are all equally untenable, and all equal in the inevitability of their singular outcome: the destruction of the Jewish state. Said destruction would necessarily entail the murder of tens of thousands, if not more, Jews. The anti-Zionist is either an anti-Semite or the tool of an anti-Semite. The anti-Zionist Jew is like the proverbial "uncle Tom". |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: Working_Designs said: Anti-Zionism does NOT equal Anti-Semitism. At this point it really kind of does. The only thing that defines an anti-Zionist is his hatred/rejection of Israel's legitimacy. He may use a thousand different ways to say it, and may have a thousand different reasons behind his hatred/rejection, but it all boils down to one, simple concept: "Israel is a nation of Jews, therefore it is evil." The solutions the anti-Zionist provides are all equally untenable, and all equal in the inevitability of their singular outcome: the destruction of the Jewish state. Said destruction would necessarily entail the murder of tens of thousands, if not more, Jews. The anti-Zionist is either an anti-Semite or the tool of an anti-Semite. The anti-Zionist Jew is like the proverbial "uncle Tom". You sound like a crazy christian who listens to nothing but the western mainstream media, and clearly there is no way to convince you of the "Real Truth" of things. Well over 1 million Israelis hate Netanyahu, and these people would love to see a 2-state solution. They hate their own country as much as many other anti-zionists do. |
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StopDropAndBowl said: Yeah, I'm also happy for the regime that kills protestors, whips/hangs homosexuals, and sentences "apostates" and adulterers to death. Because, you know, they aren't white or Jewish. Which means they are automatically the good guys. Framing the conflict as 'good guys versus bad guys' isn't helpful, because both sides do things which are morally reprehensible. Though I have to say, I'm not sure what Iran had been getting for the past few years which it didn't deserve. Ahmedinejad was a fucking loon as well, with his holocaust denial and British Empire conspiracy theories. StopDropAndBowl said: You guys really need to learn how to be secretly anti-Semitic. I mean, let's be clear, we all agree that the end goal is to finally finish what the Führer started, but you can't go out TELLING people that you hate Jews or they might catch on. Less "Fuck the ZOG war machine!" and more "Palestine shall be free!" Equating opposition to Israel to anti-semitism? StopDropAndBowl said: And being anti-Israel kind of does make you an anti-Semite. Whatever connections the state of Israel may have to the Jewish faith, they do not exempt it from criticism. StopDropAndBowl said: The only reason you want Israel destroyed is because they are the Jewish state. That's the only reason anybody is anti-Israel. What about the Jewish people who are against Israel? StopDropAndBowl said: I'm willing to accept that you might not be really anti-Semitic, and are probably just the useful tool of the anti-Semites, but a dumb stormtrooper is still a stormtrooper. So people who disagree with you do so because they are either racists, or they are easily manipulated sheep. You are discounting the possibility that you may be the one in the wrong, the lost lamb, that you or they may be the victims of deception... among other things. If you are serious about what you said, may I suggest you change tactics? Since most people are not convinced by people who say they are stupid or racist. Even if they are either of those things. StopDropAndBowl said: The only thing that defines an anti-Zionist is his hatred/rejection of Israel's legitimacy. But what is the basis of Israel's legitimacy? Legal documents? There is ample room for disagreement about legal decisions which are not based on racism. And if it's not legal documentation, then it isn't legitimate. StopDropAndBowl said: He may use a thousand different ways to say it, and may have a thousand different reasons behind his hatred/rejection, but it all boils down to one, simple concept: "Israel is a nation of Jews, therefore it is evil." So you've met everyone who doesn't recognise the legitimacy of Israel then, have you? Of course you have. StopDropAndBowl said: The solutions the anti-Zionist provides are all equally untenable, and all equal in the inevitability of their singular outcome: the destruction of the Jewish state. Said destruction would necessarily entail the murder of tens of thousands, if not more, Jews. They moved them in, why can't they move them out? StopDropAndBowl said: The anti-Zionist is either an anti-Semite or the tool of an anti-Semite. Unless they are able to explain how to dissolve the state of Israel without killing everyone living in it. Then they would just be anti-Zionist. StopDropAndBowl said: The anti-Zionist Jew is like the proverbial "uncle Tom". So there is literally no way anyone can disagree with you without them being either racist, stupid or a suck up? Yeah, cool opinions bro. |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
StopDropAndBowl said: NudeBear said: I'm glad that Iran stepped up their game over the past decade considering how much shit they had to go through for so long. I'm happy. Yeah, I'm also happy for the regime that kills protestors, whips/hangs homosexuals, and sentences "apostates" and adulterers to death. Because, you know, they aren't white or Jewish. Which means they are automatically the good guys. I never said that. You need to stop with that shit. Hate on anti-semites all you want but don't go around flipping your shit at random people. To me you look just as annoying as the idiots who spout their Jewish world domination conspiracy bullshit. Next time use your shitty sarcasm to mock the shit I actually said. Fucking lunatic. |
| Personally, I'm glad President Obama shrugged off Netanyahu's speech. I've become really disgusted by Israel in recent months since their war with Palestine this past summer. The Israeli are just as guilty of scummy things as Palestine, but because of their protection by our country, the Israeli are able to just brush it off. Then there's the constant "We're just poor harmless Jews being picked on by these Anti-Semites!" card playing. If that's not enough to point out how scummy the Israeli administration is, the Palestinians joined the ICC and are hoping to bring Israel to trial for the crimes they have committed so what does Israel do? Freezes Palestine's funds until they renege their case. Do you know what that's called? Extortion. Anti-semitism does obviously exist, but there's only so much you can chalk up to being the victim over. But extorting another country's money so yours doesn't get in trouble for its actions? That's just crooked as sin. I'm not saying Palestine is an innocent country, but the amount of shit Israel gets away with because of them being latched onto the US' back is absurd. |
| "Dakimakura aren't meant for fucking." -Moog, January 2015 When a site's moderators warn you for condemning a troll, you know their moderators need to be changed out. |
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