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| I suppose I'm on the side of the anti-mystery fence. Given what we have, I currently find it rather difficult to believe otherwise. Perhaps that may change as the show progresses onwards and we get a tad bit more information. Maybe the Bernkastel scene was supposed to be a curve ball to throw you in the wrong direction, but I find that very difficult to believe as well. At least for now. |
FactorJul 30, 2009 1:10 AM
Zedrane said: Bern's VN model actually has boobs. For some reason they took them away in the anime and made her completely flat chested. :/ For awesome. MarthX said: Ha.. ha. You've already accepted the witch. This is a Higurashi style/related paranormal show, it would be stupid not to. And even if one didn't know the vein this show falls into and what it's related to, we're getting to the point non-paranormal possibility is becoming slimmer and slimmer. All evidence at this point points to anyone taking the "anti-fantasy" position as being highly illogical. You'll be looking for mystery where there's no room. To me this just sounds like overanalyzing the alien aspect of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. And in Higurashi Rei Furude Rika conclusively admits to being the witch Bernkastel. And we're going to deny the canon existence of Hanyuu and Rika's repeated existence? Sorry, but Anime doesn't like murder mysteries. Umineko included. It's a paranormal fantasy show just like everything else. PlatinumHawke said: It's easy: Witches don't exist! So basically, the "anti-fantasy" side is just trolling and making fun of Battler's idiocy for teh lulz. |
 Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
noteDhero said: You could think of it this way as well: Beatrice the Golden Witch exists, but the murders on Rokkenjima are committed by humans using her name and legend as a cover. The possibilities so far are endless until the answer arcs come out. That's all part of the fun, to guess what really occured in some scenes and etc.I see what you're saying, but there is also the fact that there is the mystery of Beatrice's riddle and where the gold is...which is more than enough fodder for a good mystery to me. I think the presence of Bernkastel leaves room for her to meddle a bit, but that's a different discussion. But thanks for pointing out the factions...I don't really see how people can believe that she doesn't exist, especially given the conversation with Bernkastel, and the supernatural elements of the Naku Koro Ni series, but oh wells. |
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| Ara ara. I'll just say this Too much focus on boobs, Maria has weird faces, Battler is GAY !!! Awesome episode and thank god I played the VN first. |
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ukonkivi said: And in Higurashi Rei Furude Rika Edit - Spoiler'd, just in case. |
FactorJul 30, 2009 1:37 AM
Factor said: ukonkivi said: And in Higurashi Rei Furude Rika conclusively admits to being the witch Bernkastel. And we're going to deny the canon existence of Hanyuu and Rika's repeated existence? Does anyone know exactly what episodes Rika says anything concerning Bernkastel? Not that I'm doubting the similarities here; it's fairly obvious they are of relation and/or the same person. It's in episode 4 of Rei. "It's time for me to give up being a witch... I must return to being Furude Rika, rather than the witch Bernkastel..." Only time I've ever heard her mention the name. |
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Kantarou said: You could think of it this way as well: Beatrice the Golden Witch exists, but the murders on Rokkenjima are committed by humans using her name and legend as a cover. The possibilities so far are endless until the answer arcs come out. That's all part of the fun, to guess what really occured in some scenes and etc. Now THAT seems logical enough. At least more than the "anti-fantasy" thing mentioned before. If you believe that Beatrix possessed certain people and made them to kill others, you're still not anti-fantasy, you still accept the existence of both Beatrice the witch and magic. I've suspected Maria of being possessed by Beatrice and committing the murders since the very beginning. Though even some of those situations it would be hard to place her in and doing. Such as Kanon's death. Which would take at least a fair amount of magic of her own. There was no visible person throwing the weapon and Kanon. Factor said: Does anyone know exactly what episodes Rika says anything concerning Bernkastel? Not that I'm doubting the similarities here; it's fairly obvious they are of relation and/or the same person. Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei episode 4. After Furude Rika wakes up in the hospital from a rather disturbing dream. Edit: Apparently I got beaten to it. PlatinumHawke said: Oh, there's plenty of room to pick at, you just have to get creative. Very creative. If you've ever played the boardgame "Mind Trap," Umineko fits right into that line of thought. You can even refute one of the claims Beatrice made near the end of the episode. Whether Beatrice lies or not, we're pretty much beyond most non-paranormal explanations here. About the only thing that can redeem non-fantasy at this point is most of what happened in this entire episode to be complete hallucination. |
ukonkiviJul 30, 2009 1:32 AM
Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
| So is everyone's "side" on theories and speculation until the answer arcs come out? Like right now nothing we think of is wrong yet? |
PlatinumHawke said: ukonkivi said: Whether Beatrice lies or not, we're pretty much beyond most non-paranormal explanations here. Pretty much =/= Entirely. Entirely does not exist in any form or kind. There is no such thing as perfect certainty. I can't entirely say for sure than gravity exists or that the world isn't flat. And whatever the case, one this is for sure. This one episode has incredibly unique qualities. The entire situation was moved into what could be an inner world of Beatrice, or a hallucination of Battler. This is the first time in an episode we've seen again characters who are already proclaimed dead. It's certainly unique and weird. But that's of course undersaid because 90% who come in here come in to brag about how much more awesome the VN is and how much more awesome they are for having seen the VN first. PlatinumHawke said: Edit: Also, Beatrice doesn't lie. She just creatively bends the truth. You're just getting sillier and sillier. |
ukonkiviJul 30, 2009 1:44 AM
Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
MarthX said: Your way of thinking isn't necessarily wrong. There are two sides to the Umineko fanbase. Anti-mystery. You believe the witch exists. Everything was done by her and magic. You root for Beatrice to make the stubborn Battler submit Anti-fantasy. You don't believe the witch exists. Everything was done by humans and no magic was involved. You root for Battler to deny Beatrice's existence. You've already taken belief in anti-mystery so there's no point trying to convince you otherwise. Most people are anti-fantasy though so you are in the minority. Why is it that most Anti-fantasy fans think this can end... "good".. if Beatrice doesn't exist in some manner than Battlers dead in VN 1 lol... Anti-Fantasy fans are like Ange in VN 4.. they just don't look at the big picture. |
| Good episode. I wasn't expecting this to relate to Higurashi to be honest. I just have a few questions...will Umineko follow the similar path of Question Arcs and Answer Arcs? And if so will we get all the answers to this series in 1 season or will it go for two seasons to answer the questions like it did in Higurashi? I know its impossible to judge whether a 2nd season is coming or not but just a judgement based on current pacing will the first season get through it all? |
PlatinumHawke said: Trying to figure out the mysteries kinda does have that effect on you. I'm sure my brain is partly fried because of this all. Completely unrelated to my statement. I think people here don't understand varying degrees of what can be considered paranormal, magic If Beatrice proves magic exists, then that just proves my point that the anti-fantasy stance is illogical. Pretty much most of what goes on now is outside of the realm of current human technology. There's either magic and witches here or there's not. There is no in between. It's illogical to think otherwise. Paranormal exists in this world or it doesn't. And there's some very strict and highly unlikely situations for non-paranormal to still be possible. One it would be illogical to bet on. Other than paranormal, we're pretty much reduced to mass hallucinations or brain in a vat scenario. You're might as well argue that Battler is in reality Neo and that Umineko is a cheap copyright infringement of the Matrix. There's all sort of weird possibilities in this world. But to take an anti-fantasy stance is to be going with a high improbability. Whatever the crux of her game, your post appears to have little to do with what I said. PlatinumHawke said: Trying to figure out the mysteries kinda does have that effect on you. I'm sure my brain is partly fried because of this all. You're just being illogical and silly and trying to dress it up as "deep". |
Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
| Great pacing this time around~ I was really glad to see Bernkastel. AND she's Yukari Tamura again! Sayaka Ohara was great as Beatrice. |
 Znips: When Shay is born she just crawls back in the womb to shitpost for another year |
| Ok people, stop deciding what is real and what is not. At the moment the prologue ended and you're going to drop into the real story so please, don't start speculating just yet. In regard to denying the existence of Beatrice and explaining what humans could/NOT have achieved in the twilight murders, it will all be revealed. To some degree. As said in other comments, you either accept Beatrice or deny her. Either way you're going to have to find out either the impossible murder or sit on the other side of the chessboard and disprove anything that is illogical with twisted, yet, human logic. Yes, the answer arcs are not out yet but you can still understand what the VN readers are referring to once the 2nd Episode ends. Maybe even throughout it. |
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| Saying you can't trust what you see is anti-fantasy way of thinking. He's mostly anti-mystery so let him think his own way. |
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| wow, judging by what has been stated in the previous posts, i think i am an anti-fantasy fan.. i still think that the murders have to be executed by some human and beatrice and bern are there as tools so that we can rewind the events and we can solve the mystery.. much like hanyuu's existence in higurashi, i only found her as an explanation for the loops and not their deaths.. |
| The full end roll for anyone that cares about knowing more details. This plays after the clock strikes midnight and you hear someone laughing. |
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| So it takes 5 episodes to complete Legend Of Golden Witch. Although Turn of Goledn witch aren't really my favorite, I'm still looking forward to the episode. That probably will take another 5 or 6 episodes. Overall I'm really satisfied this episode, much better than episode 4. A bit of scenes on the final twilights, then straight to the Tea PArty, which is aruably the best part of this episode. I like the way they describe the atmosphere when Battler oppose everyone's opinion about the witch's doing, when everyone show a thriller expression. Then to the extra ????. Also finely done from my view. Bern <3 Maybe it's just me, but I find Beato isn't as charming as her in vn/others arts I found. ps: It does not matter whether it is done by Magic or human tricks. The"human" Battler unfortunately has never seen any of the magic in the entire game (except a bit in later episodes) so it's only natural for him not to believe magic. Others might have seen the magic, but it's all down to one's perception toward something unproven. |
 The destinies mend rift in time as men etches fate anew |
MarthX said: The full end roll for anyone that cares about knowing more details. This plays after the clock strikes midnight and you hear someone laughing. Well said. This is not a spoiler, but a piece of information everyone should read, unless it will be revealed in episode 6 however I doubt it. Coming up next; Episode 2 :) |
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| Haha, reading this VN-read vs. anime-watcher arguing is so much fun :D Dsrtstorm said: Am I the only one who thinks this show is lame? The whole using a little child to convey the story in the horror/mystery genre is very overused and tiresome. Thought this anime would show me more, but I am not impressed. Maria isn't that interesting and the exaggeration with the facial distortion is weak. Well yeah, kids sure are basic elements in most horror, mostly cos it's still a shock if they do something gruesome. I wouldn't be sure about Maria not being interesting. I mean, it's only been 5 episodes, there's no way they would reveal everything about the characters just yet. |
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| LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html |
vinesageJul 30, 2009 5:48 AM
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| I is kinda confused about the sudden change from seeing the flask mail go to shore and then going over to the scene were they talked about bad endings and whatnot. I have not played the VN, so i am just wondering if this is getting explained somehow? |
| That was a lame way for Maria to die... but I guess she can't have a painful death if she believes in Beatrice... |
| Battler's a bit crazy. But I gotta admit he has guts. |
| BERN!!! :D next up, the Seven Sisters of Purgatory |
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Missy said: That was a lame way for Maria to die... but I guess she can't have a painful death if she believes in Beatrice... Well, the second part of the episode doesn't happen in the real world, at that point everyone is already dead. How the last four survivors died is not shown in the game either. The only thing we know is that they were torn apart. The police found many pieces of the bodies and the only identifiable piece is Maria's jaw. So, the Maria-haters can happy now, because she's died in the most horrible way. |
| Excellent episode :) I was quite surprised when I saw Rika-chama Bernkastel. |
| I suppose Battler has the power of an "observer" (in a physics sense), which may be the reason Beatrice can't directly show magic in front of him..... I won't be surprised if they threw some physics/philosophical theories to explain some of the events that is happening.... |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
mouselmm said: Who's ready for EP2's tea party's great pacing with this episode, Yukarin's appearance is WIN Agreed with the boob fanservice though. Before I thought that Jessica's boob-physics whenever she turned was excessive, but then I saw Shannon in Tea Party...enough is enough. Still, this shot makes me laugh I saw what you did th4r. xD |
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TheCorruptedOne said: True. I guess that was made on purpose. Anyway, great ep.Excellent episode :) I was quite surprised when I saw Rika-chama Bernkastel. |
| Lolz so that's one ending? and looks like it's a battle between of logic and magic then? and are there more witches rite? |
| Good episode. Loved Beatrice and she have big boobs. I'm not fan of the two factions you speak about. And i haven't played the game or see Higurashi. :) |
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vinesage said: LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard. |
| Beatrice is awesome. Hope the next arc is better. |
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