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| I have to say that i liked the history, some guy who helps people, get nothing in return and then, without realizing, they are good friends. But this last episode (last scene especially) went over the limit of friendship, and its not for my taste. If this were not the last episode i would stop watching the series. |
| But those undertones were there from the beginning. |
| Now THAT is a good ending. Honestly, that felt so perfect it's hard to believe the manga is still ongoing. I'm going to have to see some more Maglobe shows now, after that, I really want more. This is going to be a void for me in the summer... Overall, I give the series a 9/10. |
| Yo that's what I am talking about! Nice nice and re-nice! |
noteDhero said: But those undertones were there from the beginning. I didnt feel any yaoi undertones, except for the last scene. I dont think there were any, unless the person watching is someone desperate who wants to see BL shit everywhere |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| What about everyone commenting how Ichi had changed since meeting Masa? Or Masa being giddy when Ichi came to visit him while sick didn't throw any flags? The fact that Masa was so dazzled by Ichi in the beginning to almost totally ignore all the warning signs? Or that as peers, Masa acted as chivalrous as he did sheepish around Ichi, unable to say many of the things that he meant, and feeling generally uncomfortable around Ichi in silence? Just so you know, gay people don't behave in the way you find yaoi or BL. They pretty generally act like other people when they're around people they're attracted to. No pathological possessiveness. No "kyaaa." No monologues of "but I'm a boy" in the character's head. So, just like other people, when someone as guarded as Ichi trusts Masa so much to cry in his lap, there is a depth of relationship that could very well be romantic. Many people did feel a sexual tension between the two from the onset of the show. And many others felt it at later points even if they aren't desperate to see it. Focusing in on something as playful as what happened in the end, while seemingly ignoring or being incapable of understanding what that was built off of is a shame. |
noteDhero said: What about everyone commenting how Ichi had changed since meeting Masa? Or Masa being giddy when Ichi came to visit him while sick didn't throw any flags? The fact that Masa was so dazzled by Ichi in the beginning to almost totally ignore all the warning signs? Or that as peers, Masa acted as chivalrous as he did sheepish around Ichi, unable to say many of the things that he meant, and feeling generally uncomfortable around Ichi in silence? Just so you know, gay people don't behave in the way you find yaoi or BL. They pretty generally act like other people when they're around people they're attracted to. No pathological possessiveness. No "kyaaa." No monologues of "but I'm a boy" in the character's head. So, just like other people, when someone as guarded as Ichi trusts Masa so much to cry in his lap, there is a depth of relationship that could very well be romantic. Many people did feel a sexual tension between the two from the onset of the show. And many others felt it at later points even if they aren't desperate to see it. Focusing in on something as playful as what happened in the end, while seemingly ignoring or being incapable of understanding what that was built off of is a shame. Nice way of phrasing it. I'm with you on this :D And the dango was surely a nice compromise, I really want to read more of this story. Gee, I want to read everything I can of Natsume Ono, but for now I'll settle watching Ristorante Paradiso. |
| Ristorante Paradiso surprised me. I thought I was going to get one thing, and it looked like something totally different by the end of the first episode. Then I thought I was getting something else based off of that, and was surprised again. |
eyerok said: noteDhero said: But those undertones were there from the beginning. I didnt feel any yaoi undertones, except for the last scene. I dont think there were any, unless the person watching is someone desperate who wants to see BL shit everywhere Bullshit. I don't even like yaoi and I still see that it's blatantly there. It's been there since the moment Yaichi put the knife to Masa's throat, or possibly even sooner than that. |
Lind_L_Tailor said: eyerok said: noteDhero said: But those undertones were there from the beginning. I didnt feel any yaoi undertones, except for the last scene. I dont think there were any, unless the person watching is someone desperate who wants to see BL shit everywhere Bullshit. I don't even like yaoi and I still see that it's blatantly there. It's been there since the moment Yaichi put the knife to Masa's throat, or possibly even sooner than that. It was there from the moment Masa looked at Yaichi and Otake in the first episode and said "wow, what a beautiful person". It was always ambiguous over who he was talking about, and as the rest of the show developed there were many more instances where you could (and I did) easily read sexual attraction into their relationship. |
| so basically if I put a knife to a guy's throat or look at chick sitting besides a guy, I'm gay? wow...seriously. I think it depends on your perspective. noteDhero said: What about everyone commenting how Ichi had changed since meeting Masa? Or Masa being giddy when Ichi came to visit him while sick didn't throw any flags? The fact that Masa was so dazzled by Ichi in the beginning to almost totally ignore all the warning signs? Or that as peers, Masa acted as chivalrous as he did sheepish around Ichi, unable to say many of the things that he meant, and feeling generally uncomfortable around Ichi in silence? . look normal people who aren't gay can also act that way and they actually do. Sure it can go both ways, but you cant just say "oh they're gay" just because they show a pattern of behavior that CAN be associated to any normal person, whether they are gay or not. Like for instance, in some cultures, especially traditional, people form the same sex holding hands or touching them is not necessarily associated with homosexual behavior but a strong bond of friendship. ANd are you suggesting that only gay people can feel uncomfortable when they're around people they admire, or fear or feel an emotion other than sexual attraction? or that only a person you feel sexually attracted to can change you as a human being? or that crying on a good friends shoulder (or leg) after an emotional experience makes you gay? I'm positively surprised that you interpreted Masa's behavior as strictly homosexual, when it was clear from the beginning that he admired Yaichi for the qualities that he himself did not possess, and was intimidated by him for that reason. Add his timidity and lack of confidence, which he displays in front of everyone and not just yaichi, its only natural for him to behave that way. why is it a shame to not see what wasn't even there from my perspective. Even the last scene didn't give any yaoi vibes to me. Now if the dango bite had been slow and sexy, that would have been another matter :P. But that was the only possible indicator of yaoi undertone. Given that there was no other, I personally think that was not the author intended, and the last scene was just an innocent playful ending rather than one with sexual tension or whatever. Some people even think LOTGH has strong homosexual undertones, when there is all the evidence to suggest the opposite. Or another example would be of this one 'psychologist' on TV who claimed that the relationship of Batman and Robin had homosexual undertones. But they misinterpret the relationship between the two main leads. My own opinion is that people have become more eager or open to reading sexuality in social behavior in the last couple of decades. Some conventional patterns of behavior are now interpreted in a different way than they used to be like 15-20 years ago. In any case, its not the kind of debate I'd like to get into, especially this place, so I'd prefer keeping the discussion to the behavior of the above mentioned characters only. There is no clear indicator that Masa or Yaichi were homosexual's, or the writer may have intentionally left it as an open question mark. |
eyerokJul 21, 2010 8:29 AM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| Well, I don't know what to say. For me and others, this author, who has done work with gay characters/a yaoi slant created a sexually ambiguous lead male who was dazzled enough by beautiful, confident man that he followed him to do things that he doesn't usually stand for, and he doesn't even question it until the wheels are falling off. To me, that is the actions of someone who is infatuated. If Masa were younger, I'd easily write it off as him just being a child. But he's not, and the direction was in such a way that highlighted sexual tension. I'll go back to a lot of the silence/awkwardness between the two at night in the brothel. And let me be clear that he also admires Matsu and Ume, and interacts with them in similar ways, and was distinctly more comfortable with them than Ichi. I think differentiating his interactions with Take, Kinu, and the whores also makes it clear to me that the feelings he held for Ichi were very different than any other character in the show. If you just want to go the platonic route with it, then fine. But if Ichi had been a woman, I wonder if you'd think the same, and that's my point. |
| thats a very interesting perspective, I must say. My own interpretation was a bit different. I think Masa is one anime character I can relate to the most. Or at least i thought so, unless your perspective is what the author intended. I myself used to be a very timid person and lacked the necessary confidence for social situations. For me it was really easy to be swayed by others and I used to accept their opinions and arguments even if I didnt belive in them. So a person with a stronger personality could easily take over my own decisions and I would go with them even if I was uncomfortable. In fact, strong personality types used to intimidate me a lot, and sometimes I admired people who had stronger personalities for example, although that was rare. This personality issue made more sense to me when it was revealed that he left his place and the Government service because these personality traits made him unfit for such a life, and he used to face difficulties because of that. So I always thought this behavior of his was 'normal' because I could relate to it from my own experiences. And I was like that till I was 20 or so. In the anime, there might have been yaoi hints, but to be honest I was really surprised when I came to this forum and saw people suggest there was something more between yaichi and masa, and that such a thing went both ways, I think that was after the 5th episode. Up till then I didnt even feel anything like that. What you said is a new perspective for me, and I really find that interesting. noteDhero said: If you just want to go the platonic route with it, then fine. But if Ichi had been a woman, I wonder if you'd think the same, and that's my point. good question. *tries to imagine Ichi as a woman* hmmm...I really dont know. I would take Masa looking at both Take and yaichi and saying "what a beautiful person" as attraction, but for whom I dont know. But definitely not the dagger on the throat part, thats just ridiculous. Masa's discomfort I'd still take as him being intimidated by Ichi's personality, and maybe also becuase he would be a woman with a strong personality, something some men do get intimidated by. Masa being attracted to Ichi would be a "maybe" then, but I wouldnt be sure about Ichi being attracted to Masa. And the dango bite part would actually be less "sexual", becuase its the kind of behavior that you could expect from an avg woman. If Ichi WAS a woman, there might be a 'maybe' or a 'probably' for me, but not more than that. |
eyerokJul 21, 2010 11:16 AM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| And this is my overarching point. For whatever reason many men are uncomfortable with the idea of relating to a gay character in any way. So what if Masa might be gay. All those personality traits that you identify with (that I largely agree with) are still there. What's the big deal? You projected yourself into Masa because you felt like you understood him. His maybe being gay or bisexual doesn't change your viewing experience at all. You're not suddenly gay or a little limp-wristed because you identify with Masa. You're human. I can't say that I identified with Masa's personality, but I do identify with the way he was with Ichi (assuming it is attraction), and that's why I was able to be charmed by a of his behavior, even though if it were any other character, I'd probably be very turned off. Ichi's end is much more up in the air than Masa. Up until that last scene with the dango, he was always just this mysterious, brooding character. As we saw his past in the last few episodes we got a better sense of his character, but since he was equally standoffish to everyone, including the women he slept with, I just can't say. At the end of the day though, I think Ichi desired someone who challenged his point of view. Masa did not just that, but rescued him from his despair. it's all very women's oriented romance novel based, but the characters were done in a way that felt real and vulnerable enough for me to embrace the story for what it is. This is also the point I was making. Before, it was absurd to think that Masa could be gay, I gave reasons, you disagreed, I gave more reasons, and now it's a maybe. The idea that these two characters are in love with each other shouldn't be that novel when taking everything into account. That's all. |
| Alright I understand your point now. I still dont think its 100% certain that there is any homosexual undertone here. Whatever examples you and the above three posters came up with can also be associated with a staright person as well. And that wouldnt change even if Ichi was a woman. I still think their relationship could be interpretated as platonic. Its still a 'what if'. BUT I cant completely reject or deny your perspective either. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| Woah, that was the best ending I've ever seen. No joke. It was going to be a 9 but then the last like 5 seconds made it a 10. I don't even. It's probably a 9 still, but at the same time I gave it a 10 for some reason. This makes me think "maybe I should of given Tatami Galaxy a 10 too," and I feel my rating system is now wack. oh well. @ are they gay The writer IS natsume ono, so the undertones exist. Whatever Ichi and Masa are, it is something very important. That you can't deny. (of course I subscribe to the gay theory 100% but it's fine if people don't see it that way exactly) |
ESSWHYJul 22, 2010 12:53 AM
ESSWHY said: . Whatever Ichi and Masa are, it is something very important. That you can't deny. ) I agree with that actually. I think it is crucial to understand what kind of human beings they both are, their nature and their personalities. That is the key to understanding their behavior and their actions. Perhaps thats why there was so much focus on their dialogues, expressions and body language. I really loved the attention to detail on the characters, and how the music and artwork was used to emphasise this point as well. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| Ouch, such cruel fate. Poor Yaichi, having to go through such emotional torment all those years needlessly; oh, wait, that was needed for him to live. Superb show. |
| wow since when this show had yaoi in it ? o_O the last scene was fffing disturbing XD overall superb show... awesome atmosphere.. |
| 9/10 superb show indeed. unique experience |
| Well, in the end it is Ono Natsume... I knew it'd end with a few shounen-ai, if not slightly yaoi scenes between Yaichi and Masa... |
| 90% of Anime is shit, but then, 90% of everything is shit. |
| Okay this was brilliant. Everything about it. That's about all i can say. Maybe i'll gather some words to write a review later. |
| Great series. To say the truth, the only "made in 2010" anime that I liked. House of 5 leaves starts with primitivity and even superficiality with hidden pot, but in a couple of episodes its' pot's revealing rapidly. So, in the end we have sort of Santa Barbara compressed in 12 eps. Brilliant concept: not so original, but perfectly done. P.S.: it seems yaoi to somebody? Damn, that's paranoid. Well, maybe(!) it's a very-very little bit of it (if we are into conspiracy theories, hehe), but I'm happy not to know the screenwriters' previous works, so I hadn't seen any signs of gay here. Nothing at all. |
MaxCrank said: . P.S.: it seems yaoi to somebody? Damn, that's paranoid. Well, maybe(!) it's a very-very little bit of it (if we are into conspiracy theories, hehe), but I'm happy not to know the screenwriters' previous works, so I hadn't seen any signs of gay here. Nothing at all. dunno, I've seen the series twice and I definitely did not feel any yaoi vibes whatsoever. If I was a bit unsure after my discussion above, a second watch of the series dispelled all the doubts I had before. But I guess, if anything, MAL has taught me that everybody has a different point of view. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| Well, my post scriptum wasn't a sign of doubt, it's considering that koreye said: everybody has a different point of view. and my there-is-no-homosexuality-here opinion just may not be right. |
MaxCrank said: Well, my post scriptum wasn't a sign of doubt, it's considering that koreye said: everybody has a different point of view. and my there-is-no-homosexuality-here opinion just may not be right. yea, actually I agree with your opinion :P |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| Man, this thread is not what I had expected. Discussing whether this is Yaoi or not? Really? MaxCrank said: I'm happy not to know the screenwriters' previous works, so I hadn't seen any signs of gay here. Nothing at all. Here's a hint: you can find "signs of gay" everywhere if you look hard enough. It's probably the same people screaming "pedophilia" when Goku takes a piss in the original Dragon Ball. Just ignore it. Anyway, I loved everything about this show. From the music to the backgrounds and animation to the distinctive character design. Someone on another forum described them as (I quote from memory) far from the "generic featureless cuteness" that plagues so many of the recent shows and I couldn't agree with that more. There should be more shows like this. No unnecessary flash, no overdrive guitar riffs, no "cute" comic relief mascots. The cat did annoy me a little bit, but that's probably because I don't like 'em too much. Well, not like it took away any of my enjoyment. That being said, I was just a wee bit disappointed by the ending. I did expect a bit more of a "bang". |
| I don't know karate, but I know karazy |
| Loved this show. :) |
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.~ |
| Gay? Oh, people, please... Most of samurai men in Edo period were bisexual. You can find a list of many famous daimyo and their love affair with men. Close, also intimate, relationships between samurai belonged to the very codex of bushido. I recommend everyone the book "Male colors. The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan" by Gary Lleup. He did very decent research on the topic. As for the series: brilliant. The only bad thing is it's so short. I wished more, for it's truly splendid. The psychology of the characters - with psychiatric layer, on top of this - is terrific. It's good to know that manga continues with the story ^^ |
| Pretty awesome show. Relaxing. The animation, the music, the atmosphere, the characters & the writing = WIN. I really liked how in depth they got when it came to the characters. 9/10 |
MusashiRoseJun 15, 2011 12:03 AM
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| It all tied nicely together, happy with the ending. :) |
| one of the most incredible anime ever made! that episode actually made me cry more than i have in such a long time - "i'm looking into the darkness because i can't see anything", says yaichi - this line perfectly captures this show's dark, beautiful, tragic mood - this story is the very definition of regret; i think that's why it broke me up so much - it made me think of all of my regrets in life - that yaichi killed his only friend and namesake for no reason refutes everything he had done throughout his long and violent fall from grace - true bittersweet tragedy - i wish this story could have gone on - an example of great art of any category! |
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| gotta say, i love the story and i also don't have any problem with the art, in fact i like it.. the only problem is i hate the subtitles on my copy with all the {dialogue00101030913890010832802320} blah blah, which totally turned me off.. ugh, gotta re-watch this anime once i find a good copy.. anyway, i like akitsu~ he's just good-natured, also i like his decision to send off money from an honest job.. i also like yaichi's character, mysterious and smart.. hmm, the rest of the group are okay too this anime reminds me of Mushishi and Natsume Yuujinchou.. it gives off a very relaxing aura, for me.. can't really say much, after all, i've only watched up to ep4 with the reason stated above |
| Yaichi ;A; clio_selene said: Gay? Oh, people, please... Most of samurai men in Edo period were bisexual. You can find a list of many famous daimyo and their love affair with men. Close, also intimate, relationships between samurai belonged to the very codex of bushido. I recommend everyone the book "Male colors. The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan" by Gary Lleup. He did very decent research on the topic. Thumbs up. 'sides, nothing wrong with being gay. Overall a great, relaxing series. The only thing I wished they showed was more of Masa's swordsmanship. XD |
| Series needed to be much longer. |
| Another example that anime is great. |
 Oh wow. Also loved the OST played during this scene to add more mood to the episode. Pretty refreshing series overall. The characters' designs are a little strange but I like the overall mood of the series as well as the tense dialogues. Oh and some of the bloody scenes were also well presented. 7.5/10 |
 |
| Love how Masa offered Yaichi some dango just like Yaichi did when they first met. Somewhat wish we could have seen more of Okinu's background, Yagi and Masa's relationship with his brother. I'm honestly sad that this show is already over. Twelve episodes is just not enough. I still have a few questions unanswered though. Did Jin really lie about the whole Yaichi thing? I mean, he did seem intent on having revenge, seeing as to how Sei probably murdered his brethren, though he does seem to consider Sei as a brother as well. They didn't seem to have treated him badly and Jin showed some concern for Sei even at the very end. Then again, it could have been for appearances sake, and Sei held a grudge against Yaichi and the gang for kidnapping him and making it happen. But why would he lie about the servant's name then, just to stir Sei up? to take him in more easily or something? My god, I'm just making this worse for myself. Why did he lie or tell the truth, knowing that it would make Sei attempt to kill him? I'm also curious whether Sei killed Yaichi or not. It does seems heavily hinted, so it's high likely. But Sei would have at least questioned Yaichi first, right? I mean, they did share some kind of bond and Sei looked up to him. Now, what if Yaichi figured out that the kidnapping was planned by the family itself and tried to do something about it? Then he was murdered and silenced to cover that matter up, but Sei continued to misunderstand the whole situation. Did Yaichi really create the Five Leaves just to meet another kid with the same circumstances as him? I'll probably have to go order the volumes or something if I want these clarified. But leaving these issues ambiguous is fine, I guess. I'm just in love with this. The soundtrack is wonderful, too. |
aokuroMay 29, 2013 2:40 AM
aokuro said: I'm just in love with this. The soundtrack is wonderful, too. It's definitely one of the most amazing anime of last years ^^ aokuro said: Did Jin really lie about the whole Yaichi thing? I'm pretty sure it all happened just like Jin said: he lied about Yaichi ordering the kidnapping (or acting on Saegusa family's orders) - because he realized that Sei would have been killed upon his returning home. He lied about Yaichi doing this because he knew that Yaichi was the only one whom Sei loved and trusted; thus, if he made Yaichi an evil one, it would stop Sei from going home. aokuro said: I'm also curious whether Sei killed Yaichi or not. It does seems heavily hinted, so it's high likely. (...) Now, what if Yaichi figured out that the kidnapping was planned by the family itself and tried to do something about it? Then he was murdered and silenced to cover that matter up, but Sei continued to misunderstand the whole situation. Sei couldn't have killed Yaichi. When after some time he rushed to his home town and asked about Yaichi, he got known that Yaichi had died. It was hinted that Yaichi realized that Saegusa family ordered the kidnapping of the boy, which didn't sit well with the family, so they silenced him (apparently, by throwing him into the well). When Jin and Yaichi (Sei) met, Jin revealed the truth to Yaichi. Until then, Yaichi was so dead inside - and when Jin tells him it wasn't Yaichi who ordered his kidnapping, we can see Sei coming alive for the first time in the whole anime. He realizes that he was, first, deceived, second, robbed of the only thing (person) that ever mattered to him. It's not wonder he wanted to kill Jin for having done it to him, regardless of the motives. He never forgave Bakuro for having ruined his life, and that's why he wanted to kill them all, never really having cared for them and their business. They hurt him so much, and in many ways. |
| I watched this show because Crunchyroll added it to its catalog and I have to say I'm very surprised at how much I warmed up to it! Dare I say , I prefer this over Samurai Champloo(Which I still enjoyed a lot btw) because Five Leaves characterization I found more nuanced and all of the pieces come together much better. It's like an onion that slowly gets peeled every episode with its pacing and style. I like flashy action just as much as the next guy but I also like series that are slower and more deliberate with their storytelling. |
HybridMBLJun 4, 2013 11:51 PM
| Really wanted to see Masa having a sword fight. Welp, still a very good anime. |
| Well that was incredibly enjoyable, easily marathoned the whole series and the time flew bye. Anyone know how faithful an adaptation the anime was? Does it cover the entire manga or only part? (surely 8 volumes of manga couldn't have been covered in only 12 eps) |
| Awwwn, Yaichi and Masa bromance :) So Yaichi got played all is life because of scar guy. Poor him. It was a good closure. It was really a special anime, it was almost a samurai slice of life xD |
| «Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.» - Kurisu Makise a.k.a. The Zombie |
| Damn, this show was good. Tranquil but intense, dark but uplifting. I can hardly speak for love; it has cut my tongue and kept it. All my 10/10's. This is one I'll end up rewatching, I know it. |
 |
| Interesting way to end this story, I quite liked it but was surprised how fast this episode ended! Pretty lovely story in general with a nice and unique art style and a pretty lovely pace! All in all a quite lovely anime 8/10 |
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| Ichi's past is pretty sad, but, at least, that ending is cheery. Nice anime. |
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