| Denied: Gaku: Minna no Yama (17375) - here |
| Denied: Hiyokoi (17403) and Hiyokoi (17404) same as Hiyokoi (17394) |
vindemon64 said: Merges Blame Academy! Blame Academy! Afternoon Blame! NSE Winged Armor Suzumega Zeb-Noid all into Blame Gakuen! And So On Thats going to make that so much harder to score :( Any chance that with that merge the 'other' titles can become synonyms? |
Ephidel said: Thats going to make that so much harder to score :( Any chance that with that merge the 'other' titles can become synonyms? I added the titles as synonyms. |
| Denied - Night of the Succubus (17430) - Darkstalkers doujinshi My Sweet Kaicho (17424) - here Sorairo Ageha (17408), SORAIRO AGEHA (17410) - same as here Teatime Lovin' (17406) - no info given, but you probably meant this |
shinkeikakuDec 17, 2009 2:33 PM
| Denials Hanasaki Doori no Hitobito (17398) - no information provided. please resubmit and fill out the details. Sugar Code (17399) - not enough info. please resubmit with more. Morgens, Mittags, Abends (17407) - not enough info. please resubmit with more. EXEcutional (17409) - Thailand OFL manga that is not published in English. |
| Denied: Makai Ouji: Devils and Realist (17439) - here Zeb-noid (17454), Zeb-noid (17455) - collected here Hayate Sugar Baby (17448) - minimal info, guessing it was this which isn't an official dj Jio To Ougon To Kinjirareta Mahou (17419) - here Midsummer Lovers (17427) - published in this Cardcaptor Sakura: Master of the Clow (17464) - we follow original release and these are just the last volumes of it given a subtitle in the American market. Elfen Lied (17460) - here |
shinkeikakuDec 20, 2009 7:58 AM
| Denied: absolute boyfriend (17472) same as Zettai Kareshi (71) Memories of Emanon (17467) same as Memories of Emanon (17465) Code:Breaker (17429) same as Code:Breaker (8341) |
| Denials SWEET (17444) - Code Geass doujin not done by the original author. EXEcutional (17447) - I denied this earlier, but from what I can find, this is Thailand published manga that has not been published in English. If you can find a source for it, please provide it for us. Thanks! |
| Merged: Ragnarok City (17422) with Ragnarock City (7849) |
| The removals posed for removal with the implementation of the Manga DB Guidelines have now been removed. You can see the list here. |
Kineta said: With the introduction of the Manga DB guidelines, the following entries will be removed: - BB Project - Holy Avenger Uh, that is a poor decision. I actually read and keep up with those two. By every reasonable aesthetic and standard (Holy Avenger is even drawn by a Japanese person), they're clearly shounen manga. They're also listed on Mangaupdates. Who was it that decided it was a good idea to simply get rid of legitimate manga from this site? |
| Please familiarise yourself with the manga guidelines. Manga DB Guidelines said: BB Project is published in French; Holy Avenger in Portugese. Neither have been licensed in English.1. Only manga published by reputable publishing companies will be admitted to the manga database, with the following exceptions:
OFL was removed from the database as it was never really intended to be there in the first place (note: there is no OFL type) and is difficult to find accurate information on. We cannot judge what is world manga and what isn't based on aesthetics as this is very subjective. If we were to do so, more than half of the OEL series by Tokyopop would need to be removed. As for "standard", Erica Awano is the granddaughter of Japanese immigrants to Brazil, not some mangaka in Japan drawing the art. Also, just because a person has Japanese blood in them doesn't mean they're restricted to drawing manga. A Japanese-American could absolutely adore graphic novels and want to draw one exactly like that. Finally, we are not MangaUpdates. |
| Denied: castle in the sky (17458) needs more info as far as I can tell there is only a cini-manga based on this and not an actual manga title. (Also most of a Wikipedia entry is not a synopsis.) Gorgeous Charat (17480) as far as I can tell it is the same as Gorgeous Charat (1170) |
Kineta said: Please familiarise yourself with the manga guidelines. Manga DB Guidelines said: BB Project is published in French; Holy Avenger in Portugese. Neither have been licensed in English.1. Only manga published by reputable publishing companies will be admitted to the manga database, with the following exceptions:
I'm well aware of what the guidelines are; I'm wondering WHY they were implemented, under what rationale. What seems particularly random is that English somehow gets a free pass. Even if we're only focusing on strictly Japanese manga, why not delete "OEL", then? Probably because BB Project, Holy Avenger, etc. are nowhere near as popular as Dramacon, even though neither is a true Japanese manga? There's really no other reason, especially considering the extremely heavy international representation on here. Kineta said: We cannot judge what is world manga and what isn't based on aesthetics as this is very subjective. If we were to do so, more than half of the OEL series by Tokyopop would need to be removed. As for "standard", Erica Awano is the granddaughter of Japanese immigrants to Brazil, not some mangaka in Japan drawing the art. Also, just because a person has Japanese blood in them doesn't mean they're restricted to drawing manga. A Japanese-American could absolutely adore graphic novels and want to draw one exactly like that. Finally, we are not MangaUpdates. In this particular case, it's not even remotely subjective; BB Project and Holy Avenger are as much manga as anything done in the "OEL" style, or actual Japanese shounen manga themselves. This was a bad decision in my view, and I'm curious why it was done. It's so bad, that I looked to see whether there was another site with a large manga database and userlists, where I could actually keep track of ALL the manga I read, as opposed to only most. |
radiantfire said: Although MAL does have a diverse user base, it was primarily designed as a site to cater for an English-speaking audience (which would justify why OEL series are acceptable, but also OFL series that are published in English). Yes, there are inconsistencies, but we have been working towards addressing them. I am sorry you feel negatively towards our decision, but I do hope you can associate with our reasoning. Of course I can; getting rid of those entries means less work for the manga moderators, while at the same time negatively affecting only about 100 users or so. In other words, just the odd complaint here or there. But that's precisely what I fail to understand about the decision; it hurts the utility of MAL for a portion of its users, and improves it for none of them. Meanwhile, so little of what you guys examine in the queue has to do with OFL manga, that the time gain is negligible. Listen, I completely agree with and sympathize with setting boundaries. But if you've ever read something like BB Project or Holy Avenger, it is very much a manga. I always thought that was the core principle. Include legitimate manga. radiantfire said: (which would justify why OEL series are acceptable, but also OFL series that are published in English) This portion of the guidelines Kineta posted is also random. A non-manga becomes a manga as long as it's published by an English company? Why are purely economical decisions by private companies affecting this? radiantfire said: Also, why not maintain a list for the entries that were deleted? I know it is not automatic, but at least you would be able to keep track of what you are reading/watching. I could also just copy and paste my entire manga list into Word, and update it that way. I would be missing out on recommendations, and including it with the rest of my manga, but it would roughly work. Point is, similar to an RSS feed, MAL is popular because of the ease of utility it affords. Not because it grants some action the user couldn't do on his or her own. |
| http://myanimelist.net/manga/17017/Immortal_Rain:_Complete_Strategy_Guide Chapters: Unknown (There's more than one) Change synonym to "Meteor Methuselah: Kanzen Kouryakubon" (hon to bon) MangaUpdates link: http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=50643 |
ZinnKidDec 23, 2009 9:28 PM
| ZinnKid - I made the changes though you want this thread next time. |
Brand said: Oh, wrong thread.... sorry. What a rookie mistake...ZinnKid - I made the changes though you want this thread next time. |
| Denied: Heaven's Will (17524) - here The Trouble with Tink (17474) - can't find anything by that title, maybe because it's Disney and search results get saturated by that. Resubmit with more info--an image at least. |
shinkeikakuDec 27, 2009 12:15 PM
| Merge: Angel Love Song (4549) is a one shot in: Glittering X-Mas Story 2003 |
vindemon64 said: Merges Blame Academy! Blame Academy! Afternoon Blame! NSE Winged Armor Suzumega Zeb-Noid all into Blame Gakuen! And So On Shouldn't http://myanimelist.net/manga/7714/BLAME!_2 and http://myanimelist.net/manga/12268/Blame_Academy!_III be merged too? |
 |
| Denied: Moonlight Goddess Diana (17585): Already a part of Mermaid Melody Pichi Pichi Pitch Kyō, Koi wo Hajimemasu (17502): Already exists Here |
| Like Shoujo? Visit: Emily's Random Shoujo Manga Page |
| Denied - Shoujo Guard (17602) Shoujo Guard (17616) Shoujo Guard (17619) GOT IT! dj not by original creators: Night of the Succubus (17612) Togainu no Chi dj (17604) Full Moon o Sagashite dj - Dear Moon (17581) Umi no Sakyuugi Nocturne (17579) Shoujo Eve Ringo Jikake no 24 Ji (17580) collected in Shinshi Doumei Cross |
shinkeikakuDec 29, 2009 7:51 AM
| Denied: -Bakumatsu Renka Karyuu Kenshiden (17626) & Bakumatsu Renka Karyuu Kenshiden (17627) same as Bakumatsu Renka Karyuu Kenshiden (17628) -DAMATTE NAITE IRUNODESU (17632) same as Damatte Naite Irunodesu (17631) -Zatoichi (17613) same as Zatoichi (17617) -Tsumanuda Kakutoumachi (17625) same as Tsumanuda Fight Town (17543) -Ai no University he Youkoso (17558) one-shot in Furachi na Kare no Shitsukekata (5348) Also people a link to mangafox, one manga, and ect. does not go in the website box. That is for official websites, be it an English or Japanese site from a publisher or author. |
BrandDec 29, 2009 8:24 PM
| I agree 100% with YoungVagabond. I won't write again the same arguments he gave, but I'd like to show you guys this link: http://www.manga-award.jp/jp/award_005.html There is a brazilian manga there that won the international manga award. There are also manga from France and other countries. Japan has created a prize for the so-called World Manga. They are recognizing it. But MAL is going back on time and erasing them, except for the OEL. Kineta said: We cannot judge what is world manga and what isn't based on aesthetics as this is very subjective. Although being a OEL or not is objective, the decision that only OEL and manga from other countries that were published in english is a subjective decision. I've read Holy Avenger and I can rite here without a doubt that its more like a manga than some OEL I've read. You could just rename the category to OEL/OFL or to world manga and there would be no need to create the OFL category. Kineta said: and is difficult to find accurate information on. MAL has tons of users from everywhere in the world. Why not ask them for information about these series? Or better, you could choose people from other countries to be a type of mod consultant and ask them for info about these series. You could even use the same process you have for choosing new mods. |
| Nousatsu Rock Star merged into Nousatsu Rock Shounen. The oneshot was released as chapter 1 of volume 1. |
radiantfire said: the number of series from a particular country and the flow of scanlations those series are characterised with would not justify active streams of activity. Exactly. As Young Vagabond wrote: YoungVagabond said: But that's precisely what I fail to understand about the decision; it hurts the utility of MAL for a portion of its users, and improves it for none of them. Meanwhile, so little of what you guys examine in the queue has to do with OFL manga, that the time gain is negligible. Listen, I completely agree with and sympathize with setting boundaries. You CAN find Holy Avenger at mangahelpers. And someone here wrote, when YoungVagabond argued that those series were in mangaupdates, that this isn't mangaupdates, which is a site that is geared towards manga readers. You guys are also forgetting that MAL is a site people use to discover new stuff. Maybe some OFLs are still underground, but manga was underground in the west someday, and sites like MAL made the difference. Maybe someday a company in an english speaking country learn of the popularity of one of these and publish it in english. radiantfire said: @m4rc0: Think of it this way: Would the effort we (both staff and users) exert in the addition and management of OFLs lead to a healthy facilitation among MAL users? Yes, it would. It would need very little effort and it would benefit thousands or even tens of thousands. radiantfire said: We do however accept them if they are published in English since MAL's target demographic are English-speaking anime and/or manga followers. IMO that is a big mistake. MAL has been an international community for ages. It has more or less 270000 accounts, and I can guarantee that more or less 0,7% is composed of brazilians. We have people from other american countries, lots of europeans and many southeast asians. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. You don't need to translate the site or the db, but I don't think you guys should forget that MAL is way past that target demographic. |
radiantfire said: Case in point: Manhwa. Manhwa is rendered an OFL according to our definitions, yet we accept them. The decision to keep manhwa series was profoundly due to the fair amount of activity in relation to our targeted demographic (this would be anime/manga followers who can read, understand, and speak English). Not only is there a fair amount of series being scanlated, but there is an active flow of scanlations for those series. Moreover, such scanlations are made available in many sites that are geared towards manga readers (e.g., Manga Fox, Manga Helpers, Manga Updates, etc.). BB Project, Holy Avenger, and likely others are available on Manga Updates and similar sites. Beyond that, if we adopt the criteria above, then we come to another logical conclusion. Namely, that OEL should ALSO be deleted from the database, considering how relatively little activity, new titles, and scanlation there is going on in the genre. And yet, OEL is kept, while currently scanlating, popular OFL manga like BB Project, Holy Avenger, and others are deleted. Why? The explanation probably lies with Dramacon, a very popular OEL which a number of the manga moderators are also big fans of. Lastly, shouldn't you also delete manhua (Chinese manga) while you're at it? That's also a relatively niche area with far less activity than manhwa. Oh, wait...there are some well-known shoujo titles that the manga moderators also really like in that genre. Nevermind. If only there was a major OFL shoujo! Then the criteria would be different... |
YoungVagabond said: The explanation probably lies with Dramacon, a very popular OEL which a number of the manga moderators are also big fans of. Lastly, shouldn't you also delete manhua (Chinese manga) while you're at it? That's also a relatively niche area with far less activity than manhwa. Oh, wait...there are some well-known shoujo titles that the manga moderators also really like in that genre. Nevermind. If only there was a major OFL shoujo! Then the criteria would be different... I can assure you the the explanation doesn't lie with the personal preference of the Manga Mods. It was a decision that was agreed upon between all of the moderators after months of discussion. Every mod was given a chance to look at the pro's and con's of keeping OFL in the database, and it was ultimately decided that it was not a direction that MAL would be taking. I don't know if I could describe it better than radiantfire or Kineta, however, you really can't place it on personal preference of a few people. |
radiantfire said: 1. MAL caters for anime/manga followers who can at least understand English. 2. The majority of users are in locations where they are able to acquire OEL publications. Since I'm apparently the only non-native engllish speaker here I am probably the one that can write this: there are LOTS of users in this site that can't understand english porperly. I know many of them. They read manga and watch anime scanlated and subed in their native languages. The site is very easy to use. And I don't know if you guys know this, but many products don't come with menus or manuals in every language, so we kinda learned how to deal with stuff in other languages. Being able to purchase doesn't mean its something easy to do. The price is in strong currencies and there are shipping fees. You forget that there are people from poor countries here. The price might be abusive for their economic realities. radiantfire said: Also, while we refer to Manga Updates, we do place limitations in regard to our reference to the site. For instance, MU accepts and displays unofficial doujinshi entries while we don't./quote] Then you shouldn't have mentioned it as a basis for comparison. But you also mentioned other sites, such as mangahelpers and Holy Avenger is there. You still haven't really explained why this "flow of scanlations" and number of submitted entries is relevant. The number of scanlated OFLs WILL increase with time and so the number of submitted entries. And in my view, a small number should make it easier for you guys. It should be a plus. A job that makes a lot of users happy and is easy to do. Also, there are lots of manga in the DB that aren't available in english and aren't beng scanlated or have a "weak flow". Aarana said: It was a decision that was agreed upon between all of the moderators after months of discussion. Every mod was given a chance to look at the pro's and con's of keeping OFL in the database, and it was ultimately decided that it was not a direction that MAL would be taking. I don't know if I could describe it better than radiantfire or Kineta, however, you really can't place it on personal preference of a few people. Why didn't you guys create a topic to discuss that with the users? The forum has a poll feature. You could let people vote and express themselves. This is a community website. And since you done that in a totally hermetic way, it was just the preference, or opinion, if you will, of a few people... In the end, the pro (satisfying users) of keeping them really outweights the con (the work needed to get info about underground OFLs, since there is info in english about the mainstream ones). Of course, I'm assuming that user satisfaction is one of your work's goals. And finally, happy new year to you guys (a little late, I know). |
| Deleted Duplicates in the queue: -'Hajimete' Ageru! (17697) -Ashita no Kimi wa Koko ni Inai (17629) -Blue (Chiba Kozue) (17699) -Love & Noise! (17692) |
radiantfire said: Also, MAL is a website that was designed to cater for an English-speaking audience. Although we acknowledge that it has a diverse community, we're not going to ignore who our primary target audience is. As such, we've implemented guidelines that adhere to such an audience. MAL was originally designed as an animelist site. If people didn't thought about expanding it, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm not talking about what MAL was, I'm talking about what it is and about what it will be, becasue the proportion of non-native speakers will keep rising. I understand that you don't want to loose your main target, but I can't see how keeping OFLs in the database gets in the way of english speakers. What I can see is that it enhances the experience to the rest. We got back to the start of the discussion: YoungVagabond said: it hurts the utility of MAL for a portion of its users, and improves it for none of them. Since you are a manga mod, I'll give you an example. Have you ever noticed the huge number of bishounen in modern shounen manga? Titles like Bleach, Rebonr and D. Gray-man, for instance. They surely aren't there to appeal to the male teenagers. Its something they do to lure the female audience taht doesn't harm the main audience's experience. radiantfire said: If by any chance more and more foreign manga are being scanlated, distributed, and accessed by users, then we would consider amendments. Isn't that a waste of efforts? If you'll allow it again when the demand rises, why do'nt you save your efforts of finding, deleting and then adding it again in the future and just leave them there, where they are doing no harm? I still think that you should hear the users and let them vote in such matters. Posting it and allowing no comments on the guidelines seems completely authoritary to me. |
m4rc0Jan 2, 2010 8:23 PM
m4rc0 said: Posting it and allowing no comments on the guidelines seems completely authoritary to me. Who said you couldn't comment on the guidelines? Look, you commented. No one is stopping the users from voicing their opinions. Though, it is probably best to create a new topic, so we don't continue hijacking this thread of updates ;) Back on the topic at hand: Denied: Shoujo Eve Ringo Jikake No 24 Ji (17708) - It is published in: Shinshi Doumei Cross |
AaranaJan 2, 2010 10:39 PM
| People need to learn to read. Aarana didn't ask you to make a new thread for complaints and feedback about the guidelines for no reason. You're allowed to discuss the guidelines and disagree with us as much as you'd like, but this is not the place to do it. Just so you know, this thread will be checked and if I find a post under this one that doesn't belong here, it will be removed without notice. I don't care how good your arguments are or if you find that unreasonable, as reading and following it is the least you can do. |
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