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Feb 17, 2011 4:27 PM
#1
THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- That was a surprising ending. For Mie to have continued loving Irako like that was unexpected. |
Feb 18, 2011 9:09 PM
#2
Ooh, I wish Gennosuke hadn't done that. He really had nothing left in the end. While I thought Irako was defeated a bit too easily, I found the death scene captivating. Gennosuke's confession that Irako's dazzle was such that he needed to kill him, plus the fact that he had admired Irako's pride, was wonderfully done. NP-3228 said: Really? I always doubted Mie's love for Gennosuke - maybe she did love him, but she definitely did not stop loving Irako.For Mie to have continued loving Irako like that was unexpected. I think it was Gonzaemon who said something about her maiden's heart being captured and broken by Irako - or something to that effect. |
Feb 26, 2011 5:26 AM
#3
Athena said: maybe she did love him, but she definitely did not stop loving Irako.. My thoughts exactly. But that doesn't change the fast that she wanted him dead to avenge her father. The reason she took her own life has more to do with Gennosuke obeying the order he was given. There are 2 panels right before she commits suicide which are taken straight from chapter 9 "Puppets". Perfect end in my opinion. |
Feb 26, 2011 3:00 PM
#4
Apr 28, 2011 3:02 PM
#5
guiglar said: That's what I thought too. She really wanted revenge, and the promise they made with Gennosuke if he wins makes it kinda contradictory to believe she killed herself out of love for Seigen. So yeah, she couldn't bear to see him becoming another mindless puppet - is the most reasonable explanation for me. Still sad though.The reason she took her own life has more to do with Gennosuke obeying the order he was given. There are 2 panels right before she commits suicide which are taken straight from chapter 9 "Puppets". Great end nevertheless. |
Sep 15, 2011 12:39 AM
#6
after she reached the peak of her existence, there was no more purpose left for her life I'm sad Irako died at the end I felt he was a better man than Fujiki |
<img src="http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww126/II_DaRkO_II/persona.png?t=1321953097" /> |
Nov 9, 2011 9:10 PM
#7
^I was ʘ‿ʘ when Fujiki sliced up Irako but really, neither is worse/better, Fujiki followed the codes and was a 'model' samurai, Irako went against the codes and lived it up, but look how both ended up.. I also think that it's not so simple as Fujiki = justice, honor and integrity and Irako = I hate this social order and won't bend to it as far as I can tell the entire world of Shigurui is unhinged and cruel to the extreme, and small characters like our heroes don't really have much control over events. The young maiden killing herself wasn't really a shock, you can see that she's subconsciously torn when she has that vision of Gennosuke dieing before the fight then telling him that she saw him win. the question here is: was that vision fear for Gennosuke's life or perhaps the part of her that still liked Seigen wanted Gennosuke dead or maybe both? |
alcuradNov 9, 2011 9:13 PM
Dec 3, 2011 6:22 PM
#8
Xuchiel said: guiglar said: That's what I thought too. She really wanted revenge, and the promise they made with Gennosuke if he wins makes it kinda contradictory to believe she killed herself out of love for Seigen. So yeah, she couldn't bear to see him becoming another mindless puppet - is the most reasonable explanation for me. Still sad though.The reason she took her own life has more to do with Gennosuke obeying the order he was given. There are 2 panels right before she commits suicide which are taken straight from chapter 9 "Puppets". Out of all the theories thrown out here, Ill have to agree with this one. There is no doubt in my mind that Mei wanted revenge for her father's death; she even appeared elated when Fujiki gutted Ikaro ** applause**. As 'guiglar' pointed out in an earlier post, Mei's change came after Fujiki was ordered to behead Irako. For some reason, that did not sit well with her nor Fujiki, for that matter. Although I doubt that Mei killing herself had anything to do with loving Irako, I still believe it was senseless and selfish. I also agree with 'alcurad' ; I so enjoyed seeing Irako get his and Fujiki giving it to him was the highlight. And yes... "Shigurui" is one bizarre manga written by an author with a equally so imagination. But... I loved every second of it and, for me, it sets it apart from the current mainstream manga. An absolute joy to read (with the exception of the ending chapter). |
Jan 28, 2012 3:12 PM
#9
I was left rather confused about Mie's feelings, myself. There was a comment about Fujiki sensing the darkness hiding underneath in one of the last chapters that made me think she might have loved Irako more, following him not raping her, and actually come to have been more enraged by Irako sleeping with Iku when they were to be married. Not sure. The random chapter where Irako turned up with an ape's head and - for some inexplicable reason - lied about his relationship with Iku also hinted at this. But the confusion over Mie's feelings was caused more by shoddy writing than anything. She went from wanted to marry Fujiki, wanting to marry Irako after he 'saved' her purity, going insane over her last ray of hope vanishing... to caring about her demented father's school/the father that occasionally sexually abused her to the extent she became a strong-minded woman desperate for vengeance. It didn't fit AT ALL. Surely she should've been happy to she the chains that bound her into a life of existing only to breed be destroyed?... Anyway, the manga became an extended-beyond-goodness mess once Fujiki lost the three volume(ish?) duel with Irako. Fujiki was robotic throughout and Irako's characterisation ended once he'd got his revenge. All that was left was more animal imagery, manly narration, gore and some needless nudity... with utterly pointless new/random character backstories thrown around to make a series that had long lost its luster drag-on further. WHAT WAS EVEN THE POINT OF THE FROG-GUY AND DICK-WOMAN!? The last we saw of the 'woman' was Mr. Evil doing her up the arse; not caring about 'her' growing a penis. Pure filler. In short: a decent enough gorefest that long outstayed its welcome. The uninspiring nature of the final duel and the ending itself made it crystal that a shallow work had gone on for far too long. |
Jan 28, 2012 5:04 PM
#10
AironicallyHuman said: WHAT WAS EVEN THE POINT OF THE FROG-GUY AND DICK-WOMAN!? The last we saw of the 'woman' was Mr. Evil doing her up the arse; not caring about 'her' growing a penis. Pure filler. Yeah, It might just be a filler, but I enjoyed tbh! |
May 18, 2012 12:39 PM
#11
Totally agree with the filler crap, completely unnecesary. I loved the whole story however and it is very refreshing to read something unconstrained and not focused for the mainstream audience once in a while. About the final chapter, maybe I'm wrong about this, but I get the feeling that Mie never really forgave Gennosuke and you can see how he is tormented by the scene when he is holding her to be raped just before the end, which kind of shows that either she never forgave him at all or that he never completely forgave himself about this. She also repeats "please kill him" on several points on the final chapters, but you never really know if she is directly asking Gennosuke to kill Seigen or if she is talking to herself and actually meaning the opposite, something like "please (Seigen), kill him (Gennosuke)", thus justifying her not telling Gennosuke about her vision just before the match, why else wouldn't she warn him about this? And finally, I'm pretty sure that in Mie's vision Gennosuke's face was cut from above, not from below. But that's for another time. |
Jan 31, 2013 2:07 AM
#12
Considering how long they usually drag out fights the final between Irako and Gennosuke was straight to the point, very short..really weird. Mie was probably the biggest mystery with the whole series. As for her father she hated him but still accepted him for whatever reason. She had fallen for Irako when he "saved her purity" but hated that he killed her father. The whole series I felt she was manipulating Gennosuke really. Mie wasn't always right in the head as shown and heavily implied way earlier in the series that for some reason was brushed aside later on. Remember how she acted during her father's battle with Irako? Gennosuke was the only Kogan member left to see her will through of revenge. The guy was a beast. When Gennosuke finished off Irako, it was truly the end of everything for her. Serving under Takada(sp?) would just be a restart of all the fucked up sheep following master/puppet stuff she hated when Kogan dojo was thriving. She just wanted to see her father's death avenged. Once that happen and watching Gennosuke unwillingly follow the rules of society of that era she peaced out. I mainly got into the manga because of the animated series, just wanted to see how it ended. I agree that it dragged on too long for its own good (even though it was only 84 chapters). It's like when the plot is advancing they just pause, side-track with introducing characters who don't really have much, if any, effect on the story at all like Chika (dick-girl) and frog guy. Still, senien samurai series, I can't get enough of em. |
Gen2K_Jan 31, 2013 9:21 AM
Jun 13, 2013 8:58 AM
#13
The last fight was indeed short lived.. But again thats what distinguishes this samurai manga from others , it depicts the samurai life exactly how it was , no clashing swords and endless fights like other shonen samurai manga.. Regarding the end i think it was fitting. Had Irako won, he would have proved to the world that the Kogan style was nothing , he would have ascended to even greater hights of fame and fortune, and im not sure what Mie would have done.. Maybe go under his care ? What i think the author wanted to show is two things. First , a man who tried to defy the social order doesnt really change a thing under the reign of a cruel lord and second a man is willing to get stripped of his pride and personality just to please his lord and follow the cruel teachings he has been taught restraining his humanity and sense of mercy thus becoming a mere puppet. All in all, i think it pictures samurai reality perfectly.. |
Aug 1, 2013 11:25 AM
#14
It's a good samurai story that have a fitting ending. However I agree that the writing is somewhat shoddy. It left me the feeling that the mangaka had no clear idea in which way to develop the characters and so he experimented along the way. |
Aug 4, 2013 10:08 AM
#15
I was really disappointed with the end. All I really wanted to see is how the fight from the anime would turn out but I didn't expect this. The ending feels kinda rushed and doesn't really make sense unless you make up theories of what the author could've thought. Although it pleases me to see Mie die (never really liked her character... I like Gennosuke, no I like Iraku, oh they were so cruel to him now I'm in despair, now I'm a total psycho, time to like Gennosuke again, now I kill myself, what do I actually want) I really didn't want Gennosuke to win. To me he was an inferior character to Irako, mainly because I think Irako has suffered enough in life and had finally received some happiness. Also he is a pretty kind character considering all that he's done for other people. Somehow I see the Kogan clan as the villains in this anime. And in the end if you think about the story all that's happened happened because of Iku.^^ It's kinda funny how everything would turn out like that just because Iku and Irako had a little happy time. |
Aug 4, 2013 11:45 AM
#16
How can you say that Irako is kind? He used everyone he could for his ambition.He killed his own mother. He killed the doctor from whom he took his name. He killed Suzu and many more innocent people. |
Jan 7, 2014 1:45 AM
#17
A very fitting ending to one of the most brutal stories I have ever read. Happily ever after was just not possible for 2 people who are as damaged as these 2. I agree with Guiglar, Mie takes her life because Gennosuke once again obeyed a shameful order which brings her back to her own ordeal with her father and his disciples. Th 2 panels showing that scene right before she kills herself leave no doubt on the matter. In a way, I also think that Mie might have hated Irako all the more because she still loved him in a very physical sort of way. I think what she found mos unforgivable is that while he was engaged to her, he was seeing Iku. |
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
Feb 12, 2014 2:34 PM
#18
AironicallyHuman said: yah thats got me wondering tooWHAT WAS EVEN THE POINT OF THE FROG-GUY AND DICK-WOMAN!? The last we saw of the 'woman' was Mr. Evil doing her up the arse; not caring about 'her' growing a penis. Pure filler. however i thought this ending while a bit abrupt was fitting, Mie still loving irako caught me completely off guard, and its a very fitting end to these characters though i do have a bit of pity for fujiki, he may have been a revenge filled monster willing to kill without a bit of empathy or remorse, but he was finally becomming human for the first time and after this truly believed he was going to have a happy life only to be essentially betrayed by mie in the end ultimately giving fujiki a fate worse than death, its pretty brilliant in my mind. i give the series a 8 |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
Mar 17, 2014 7:54 AM
#19
I loved the entire story of Shigurui (with the exception of the filler), and the ending did not disappoint at all. I thought it was very fitting and somewhat beautiful. I agree with the theory that Mie killed herself due to Gennosuke's decision to follow orders when it meant going against what he believed. I wonder what Gennosuke decides to do now, since he has nothing left to live for. Even living at the castle seems unfitting for him, due to the temperament of the lord. I think it is very possible that he ended up committing suicide as well...Possibly with the last few panels being his last thoughts. |
Apr 11, 2014 5:09 PM
#20
I wonder how stupid the fight must of looked to outsiders who didn't know how calculated each move was.. You have a blind bastard and a one armed cripple fighting it out to the death! The match ends with the one armed wonder accidentally letting his sword slip out of his hand almost impaling a spectator! The blind bastard makes one desperate swing with his sword and misses horribly! Mr. Cripple closes in fast and leans into the blind bastard with his wakizashi in tow! Ect, ect, ect... |
Sep 2, 2014 11:50 AM
#21
I thought it was a near-perfect ending. All the emotion and atmosphere was captured so well in the final chapters. My theory behind Mie is very similar to NP-3228's interpretation: NP-3228 said: Maybe she dies because there was nothing left after revenge. Mie did lose everything after the death match. With only revenge fueling her, after it was over she didn't find anything worth living for. Just another conclusion on my part. There are a few signs that point to this as opposed to her supposedly still loving Irako. 1) She was broken. Ever since Irako's banishment when she first entered an extreme depression. Then again after her father's death when she went insane for a second time and a new reason. All of these terrible things kept happening to her, compounding, driving her mad. In the end, as NP put it "...only revenge fueling her..." She may have recovered enough to find emotional attachment to Gennosuke (and Irako upon his death) but the core fuel which kept her moving forward was now spent. 2) Chapter 83, the last panel. "At the moment of Gennosuke's victory, the evil spirit lurking in the depths of Mie's heart, vanished without a trace." with the seashell representing Mie's heart. At this point, the fuel of revenge had evaporated. Her existence was fulfilled, her mission accomplished. Nothing was left to hold her emotions together. Up until that point, she had been consumed by revenge and had not thought about her emotions for Gennosuke. She was in a daze the entire time. Her vision and her heart were clouded by the evil spirit of revenge. 3) The seashell returns, with blood flowing down upon it. I believe this signifies the darkness, or Evil spirit returning into Mie's heart. Perhaps she began thinking of who Gennosuke really was to her. This final act of beheading Irako reminded her of the time when Gennosuke held her down. He always put tradition and honor before anything else, disregarding all those around him. The panel was taken directly from chapter 9 (as mentioned by guiglar at the beginning of the thread). This was when Mie fully realized her situation and made her decision. One of the best tragedies I have read. Very well written and illustrated. 9/10 from me. |
Feb 28, 2015 2:35 AM
#22
I love that the ending leaves some room for interpretation, as evidenced by this thread. I'd personally go with the theory that Mie killed herself because she saw that Gennosuke was still a 'puppet'. The flashbacks seem to indicate this. Then again, the other theories don't seem completely unlikely either. Of course this is somewhat unfair to Gennosuke, it's not like he had much of a choice. Who knows what would have happened to him if he refused the order. He didn't seem to enjoy it either. As for what happened to Gennosuke afterwards, my own little theory is that he became like a second Kogan. With nothing left that will keep his human side alive, only the loyalty to his deceased master remains and he will dedicate the remainder of his life to keeping the Kogan-swordstyle alive. Maybe open a small Dojo and have a couple of disciples of his own (fingerless spearguy?) The death of Mie will turn him apathetic, bitter and cruel, just like Kogan was. All in all, Shigurui was an enchanting read. I would have read the entire thing in a day if i had the time. The Toad/dickgirl thing is the only downside of the manga i can think of at the moment. It's an interesting side-story, but it really goes nowhere and serves no purpose whatsoever. |
Jul 23, 2015 9:38 PM
#23
Here's my theory: When fujiki was ordered to 'desecrate' his opponent's corpse, and he did so even when he didn't want to, showed that fujiki will remain a mindless puppet to whoever's in charge at the time. Mie didn't want to spend the rest of her life with a puppet, and live by the harsh code that she hates so much. So she killed herself, realizing that nothing's gonna change anyway no matter who does what. |
Jul 23, 2015 9:39 PM
#24
As for the frog man's story... Lol probably fanservice for some weird individuals. XD |
Jul 23, 2015 9:47 PM
#25
Hmmm I'd also like to know what's with the people who complain about the 'pointless/excessive/mindless violence/blood/gore/porn...etc' That's how the story is. It was written/drawn for people who ENJOY that stuff. What? You think the pages will magically change into rainbows and unicorns if you complain enough times? Lol sorry I had to say that. But really now, every time I go to a board about shigurui, these people have to show up. Sigh... |
Nov 22, 2015 3:42 AM
#26
^ lol but yeah it was good story but the ending isn't satisfying . |
Nov 27, 2015 2:15 AM
#27
I just finished reading it and i think that the ending was tilted towards Seigen.. he was blinded but he took his revenge despite his disability by killing every member of the Kogan-ryuu. and his death was jusified because Gennosuke was training his best despite only having a single arm. Gennosuke had become so strong that he was able to over power Seigen in the end and slice through him as well as cutting through the blade. Gennosuke had lost the revenge match as well, so logically he had to win the final match. But its sad that Gennosuke was left alone, in the end it just shows us that he was alone in the beginning and alone in the ending too; while our Seigen was proficient eater of ass. I wish he had a chance to bust a nut with Mie before the match. Possible Epilogue: Gennosuke commits suicide or he becomes a rounin. |
Dec 30, 2015 5:25 AM
#28
Wow, such an unexpected ending. Still great, I would never thought that Mie would do that... Brutal story. |
Mar 4, 2016 4:16 PM
#29
Perfect The plot was executed well The characters was did well and their role made themselves bold The gore and action scene is superb But what happened to the toad? The spearmen?... I want it The imperial tournament is kinda rush But overall its perfect |
Mar 15, 2016 3:12 PM
#30
The ending really brought it all together for me. I tend to avoid super gory works like these because often times it's thrown in there for gore's sake and not because avoiding it would distract from the storytelling, but I overlooked it here because the progression of the characters was so interesting. The swordsman blinded by ambition was literally blinded, and the samurai whose hands were tied by the warrior's code literally had his arm taken from him. Also, Irako gradually becoming what he despised so he can undermine it was a nice thing to watch. As far as Mie, it's like it was mentioned before. She killed herself once she realized that Gennosuke would always be a puppet who wouldn't act or think for himself, and she couldn't bring herself to fulfill her vow of marrying someone like that. The whole dichotomy between Irako and Gennosuke was great to watch. Both of them came from similar backgrounds, but were completely opposite. Irako, despite being a murderous, treacherous, womanizer (all at the same time, no less) was charming and very sympathetic to the abandoned and shunned, and despised being used by anyone. Gennosuke on the other hand, was stoic, reserved, and had a high degree of integrity, too much in fact. The end did feel a little rushed, but there wasn't much else left to address aside from the frog man. Irako became complacent, and possibly lost some of his desire to kill Gennosuke after realizing their pasts were alike. Gennosuke kept sharpening his skills and seeking a way to combat Irako's techniques. It's no surprise it ended so switftly. The only thing that was really random in this story was miss futanari. That was...out of nowhere (literally). |
Jun 3, 2016 10:51 PM
#31
I would have liked to see the other fight, the author introduced a several warriors like the Toadman & the blond dude with the reverse blade, also what happened to Chika? Did Tadanaga killed her? |
Forever Berserk |
Jun 4, 2016 9:29 AM
#32
Mie killed herself because she couldn't stand to watch Fujiki becoming a puppet once again, however, her decision was very selfish and not thought-out. There was just no way he could have said "No" to the Lord of Suroga (Fucking Shogun's brother!), the tanegashima troops would have shot him & his assistant (Mie) like dogs. The man just couldn't sign the death of his love, throw away the Kogan-ryu & the sacrifice of his sword brothers. In the end, he chose the life of his love over his pride as a swordsman, but all she saw was a man becoming once again a puppet and submitting to a Lord. He was indeed a puppet, but this time, Mie was unknowingly his master, and his love for her was the strings. |
TBSMMay 17, 2018 9:40 PM
Forever Berserk |
Sep 14, 2017 5:27 AM
#33
Isn't it weird how Seigen's legendary sword was broken just like that? Was the fight rigged? |
Nov 24, 2017 7:44 AM
#34
Source BlackRainbow tumblr: https://blackrainbowblade.tumblr.com/post/98540638265/shigurui-ending-explained-many-spoilers The ending of Shigurui is derided by many reviewers as being far too abrupt and dissatisfying. I completely disagree, and the key to understanding the end is there throughout the manga and is even made explicit in the final scene. The story’s theme from the outset is the effect of a cruel world on the people within it. When the manga starts you could be forgiven for thinking the source of all evil is Kogan and that his disciples, once set on his path, are trapped in a destructive cycle. But already, we have been introduced to Lord Tadanaga at Sunpu Castle, the insane and selfish lord who sets in motion the final duel. He, like Kogan, is cruel, abusive and depraved. And, as the story continues, we see many peripheral characters who are simply sadistic or evil for the sake of it. If not, they are soon corrupted by those around them. Thus the scene is set. The world is a cruel and corrupt place and the heroes (a rather oblique use of the term, I admit) are set on escaping from it in one way or another. Irako and Fujiki come from the same background. Both are poor and of a lowly social class. Both are horribly bullied by the samurai classes and both derive their motivation from this abuse. The difference is that, while Irako fights against the system, murdering his way up through the ranks to prove that there is no truth in the hierarchy, Fujiki buys into the samurai ideology. He endeavours to rise up in the world through duty and loyalty to the clan that adopted him. Meanwhile, the world continues to corrupt both men. Their decisions lead them both to commit terrible atrocities and become little more than instruments for death, Irako for himself and Fujiki for those around him. There is much debate over whom Mie loves. Some even go so far as to say that she never loved Fujiki and only uses him for vengeance. I don’t think there is any reason to consider her emotions to be so black and white. The author is fairly open and explicit with her thoughts, and it is clear she has feelings for both men, which change over time. Mie is no different from Irako and Fujiki inasmuch as she, like them and, indeed, like Iku, needs to escape the horrors of the world around her. Being a woman, she has no recourse to position and social power, so she turns to the two men whom she has the potential to wed. Initially, she hangs her star on Irako, the man who is “not a puppet,” the one who, at that time, has the potential to save her from the life she is living. But, and this is an important "but”, about halfway through the story and, at the point where the three “monsters” are born, Mie makes a terrifying realisation: Irako is just as bad as Fujiki. His ambition to overturn the system has corrupted him just as much as the system itself has corrupted Fujiki. Both are products of this terrible world and neither will offer her redemption. “Mie” comes from the Japanese verb “to see” or be “visible”. She is, in the end, the only one of the three monsters who is whole, and perhaps the only one who sees the truth. Irako, who is successful in his ambitions, is unable to see that those same ambitions have turned him into the one thing he was fighting against. In contrast, Fujiki may be able to see the corruption but, crippled by duty, he cannot act. Hence Irako, the samurai who cannot see, is blinded. And Fujiki, the samurai who cannot act, loses his arm. Mie remains true to her desire to love whichever man is not a puppet, whichever can rise above the corruption. While this is Irako at the beginning, very slowly, the balance shifts to Fujiki. By the time he murders Kogan, Irako has become a monster. His behaviour worsens as the story continues. He finds it easier and easier to kill. He takes many lovers, despite Iku’s devotion to him, and ends up murdering several, seemingly for pleasure. Even with Iku, he acts depraved, demonstrated most vividly by the point at which he makes love to her on a desecrated statue in a Buddhist shrine. In the final chapters, Fujiki undergoes an extraordinary change. He, like Irako, has been completely corrupted by the world around him. This comes to a head both spiritually and physically when he challenges and mutilates a young student on Sasahara’s estate. Sasahara cries “he’s just a child!” and something seems to click in Fujiki’s head. The narrator describes his heart as “festering”. And at the depths of his moral and spiritual corruption, his body gives in and he falls into a coma. This time can be considered a kind of symbolic death and resurrection for the character. Afterwards, he is entirely transformed and reborn for the first time as a man who is able to think for himself. Having barely spoken throughout the manga, he suddenly pledges his love to Mie. He chooses to marry her - importantly, as it is unclear if he, like her, had had much choice in the matter before. His will to kill Irako, which previously was born of vengeance, now comes from a desire to end his old life and start a new one with Mie, an idea given form in their decision to consummate the marriage on the day Irako dies. More importantly, by the final match, Irako and Fujiki have, in their own ways, made peace. They are the same, two sides of one coin. When Iku explains Fujiki’s past to Irako, he at last recognises they share the same motivations. In turn, he delivers the monkey’s head medicine that effects Fujiki’s “resurrection”. Then, even as he is about to kill him, Fujiki comes to an understanding of Irako’s nature: remembering how Irako was sick after being ordered to kill by Kogan - “Irako was sick at the idea of having to kill for others” - Fujiki is said to feel a sudden respect for him. In fact, there is plenty in the text to suggest that Fujiki had stronger feelings for Irako than he ever let on. His noticing Irako’s lips and eyes, for one, and being defeated in their very first spar, suggest that Fujiki may have felt desire for Irako, which caused him to be distracted. Their passionate rivalry throughout is like that of lovers. When Fujiki passes Irako on the stairs, towards the end of the story, his nose bleeds, usually a sign that a man is sexually aroused in Japanese manga. Finally, in the instant of Irako’s death, the two men are shown naked, not fighting but in an instant of tenderness. In the end, they are not enemies. Irako must die because the corruption has defeated him. His life of depravity and murder has caused him to become death itself, and he is depicted as a fleshless corpse. His redemption is through death. Fujiki has already undergone death and resurrection and, no longer a puppet and uncorrupted, is able to deliver a final merciful blow to his rival without vengeance on his mind. At the instant of Irako’s death, both men have achieved what they strove for: escape from the cruelty of the world. It is an idea given further impact by Iku’s decision to follow Irako into the next world; the text describes her as having achieved Buddhist enlightenment, in keeping with the whole theme of the manga. With Irako’s death, Iku’s final earthly tie has been cut and she is free. Then the awful truth comes home to the survivors, stated at the beginning of the battle, “everything is a sham; death is the only sincerity.” As the lord starts to shout at Fujiki, forcing him to decapitate Irako’s corpse and promising him a future in the service of Tadanaga, the truth is revealed: the corrupt world demands Fujiki return to being a puppet. Mie understands that. The instant he stoops to take Irako’s head, the man she loves is gone. The puppet has returned. For the first time too, Fujiki understands this consciously, which is why he is at once drained of life and strength. In those last few frames, Fujiki is just as dead as Mie. It could not have ended any other way. If Irako had killed Fujiki, corruption would have won. If Fujiki had killed Irako out of vengeance, corruption would have still won. If Mie had gone on living and allowed herself and her husband to serve Tadanaga, corruption would have won. The beauty of the story is that, for a moment, all three monsters transcended the world that made them monsters. |
Apr 4, 2018 11:53 AM
#35
fujiki and mie had reached a point where the two of them were able to percieve things in the same way...that point when fujiki was ordered to cut off irako's head i think she too had the same memory of being held down (the puppet scene) and for her we know her pride was more important to her than her life. I guess the resentment returned and the one man who wasnt a puppet was gone |
Apr 20, 2018 11:37 PM
#36
rasqal said: Isn't it weird how Seigen's legendary sword was broken just like that? Was the fight rigged? TBSM said: Fujiki was Mie's puppet and his lover for her was the strings. Both are very good points |
Dec 14, 2018 5:37 AM
#37
Came to the manga after watching the anime and I think the anime made an awesome cut. Sure it looks like the author was kinda lost after the revenge duel, and the frog guy and dick girl felt way out of place, as several characters, in the same way Fujiki and Mie's motivations and personalities were shifting and changing with no consistency. I know the anime came out before the manga was complete, and although being good as it is, it could have used one special to tell the conclusion which was also spectacular. I could not find anything about it in english, but apparently it's true that the tournament existed and it was recorded a fight between a blind and a one-handed samurai, the fight being a lame one where the one-handed guy couldn't hold his world and the blind couldn't aim for the target, and the author created this whole story to show that that battle that really took place wasn't lame at all, but extremelly skillful, and I'm glad it was a short fight because we already had a huge one full of twists in the revenge duel, repeating it would be pointless and tiresome, being it a real fight that existed and looked so dull was the cherry on the cake - meaning that only the ones who knew the story would know how awesome that last fight trully was. And if the anime had an special to show the conclusion, jumping all the shit from Kogan's death till then, Mie's motivation would feel way better, as she only started to recover when Irako showed up again and started killing the disciples and she did trick Fujiki before the fight. btw: Shigurui official translation should be Tits and Bowels. |
Jan 11, 2019 5:28 PM
#38
What a tragic ending! A few points: - Fujiki's visions of Irako with skeleton face and breasts were a premonition of Mie taking her life upon Irako's death perhaps? Or perhaps it was depicting the deadly attraction of Irako's allure. - Even Kogan admitted that the tongue is mightier than the sword (chapter 72) and in multiple occasions Irako talked his way out of sticky situations (puppet chapter & monkey killing incident). But for Fujiki who was only trained in the art of swordsmanship, there was no other way to deal with the lord's demands in the last chapter. - With Mie gone, Fujiki loses the house he was trying to protect, and the shell is shown bloody in the end. - Last few panels show Fujiki using his left hand (that had been cut off) to hold Mie's hand. There's not enough to convince that Mie had feelings for Irako in the end, so being let down by Fujiki's actions is a more reasonable conclusion. |
Dec 3, 2019 1:01 AM
#39
Absolutely breathtaking first half , rather pointless 2nd half and a rather good ending. I kinda felt as if the series got axed - all characters introduced in 2nd half of the manga ended up having 0 impact on story.. you could easily remove them and start the tournament nearly exactly after the revenge duel, only keeping the few chapters about Fujiki and Mie.. While ending was great - it was also not flawless, but I loved the way you could interpret it how you want - so that was fine by me. Overall 9/10 - could easily be a masterpiece but went slightly downhill as it progressed. |
Jan 13, 2020 2:15 AM
#40
Before I start to talk about the last chapter, I suppose it'd be fair to just let this out. The side characters that were introduced in the middle of the story like Chika, Gannosuke, and Sasahara were very interesting ones and it was a shame to see that they ended up being nothing more than pebbles on the side of the road in regards to the primary storyline. It might've been a better move to extend the story by a couple of chapters to conclude the already established side character arcs before having Irako vs Fujiki as the main event. Mie killing herself in the very end was just unfair for Fujiki... Even the one-armed samurai showed utter disgust at the insults they threw at a dead man who was no longer able to defend himself and being forced to chop off Irako's head must have felt like one of the most heinous acts that he had committed. The image of her bethrothed holding her down flashing before her eyes as he did the did was the straw that broke the camel's back which was what's left of her fragile sanity but that begs the question; What else could he have done in the face of someone who was as vile and cruel as Dainagon Tadanaga? No matter what he does, the only two outcomes would either be him losing his life or him losing everything and that's tragic as fuck. This was a spectacular manga. I did not expect to be as hooked as I was to this especially considering the mixed feelings I had towards the anime and its execution the first time I watched it. |
Jan 13, 2020 10:56 AM
#41
One of the best endings I've seen in a manga. First, the fight: I love that it was short and there wasn't 10+ chapters of them clashing it out. Irako had developed a technique specifically for the Kogan school which proved wildly successful, and Fujiki developed a strategy to take him out just as quickly. It was realistic. While Irako lost, Fujiki lost too. This wasn't a sweet victory at all. He was a puppet whose victory rang hollow once he realized that the Lord wanted more amusement and ordered him to do something which made him feel ill. He was trembling, vomiting, and bleeding from his nose (which we've seen him do when he is vehemently opposed to doing something at the behest of his superiors). The only thing to look forward to was Mie, and that too was taking away from him. Not by an assassin or anything, but by her own hands...geez. Now to the Mie speculations/theories. I don't think she was in love with Irako. As someone mentioned: she was crying, what seems to be, tears of joy when he died and her "evil spirit" vanished as a result of his death. What I think happened (based on the panels/flashbacks we're shown) is that the ugly sight of Fujiki reminded her of what she hates the most: a puppet doing what he's told no matter how opposed to it he is. The evidence for this is the panel that was shown of Fujiki holding her down at the command of his master so that she would be raped. The next panel showed the sea shell, that represented her purity, being stained with blood. She didn't lose her will to live because she got revenge, she lost the will to live because the only thing to look forward to is marrying someone whose essence represented everything she hated. And remember, she was willing to kill herself before for this exact reason. Now on to her vision of seeing Fujiki's face cut in half. I simply think this is telling us that he didn't commit suicide, but ultimately accepted the job and died in battle sometime in the future. A servant until the end. |
Horrorreader91Mar 14, 2020 10:58 AM
Sep 30, 2020 4:08 PM
#42
I hated the anime before, and the manga didn't change my mind whatsoever (infact its even worse with the 2nd half). This entire story just never clicked with me whatsoever, from the start till the end, and I didn't like the art that much too. Disappointed. |
Apr 12, 2021 8:08 AM
#43
I was really confused about why Mei committed suicide until I read the replies on this forum. Anyway, the final battle was just disappointing. I wasn't expecting the same intensity as the first revenge battle but I do wish the fight had gone on for a bit longer. I thought I was pretty used to violence and gore but this manga showed me that I probably haven't even seen 1% of how depraved and gory some pieces of media can get. I'm giving this a 7/10. It was pretty good until the first revenge battle but gets waaaayyyy too sidetracked and then it felt rushed when it ended. |
Jun 10, 2021 11:41 PM
#44
TitanInsane said: I was really confused about why Mei committed suicide until I read the replies on this forum. Anyway, the final battle was just disappointing. I wasn't expecting the same intensity as the first revenge battle but I do wish the fight had gone on for a bit longer. I thought I was pretty used to violence and gore but this manga showed me that I probably haven't even seen 1% of how depraved and gory some pieces of media can get. I'm giving this a 7/10. It was pretty good until the first revenge battle but gets waaaayyyy too sidetracked and then it felt rushed when it ended. Your "intense" final battle was already showed volumes ago, this one presented how things are changed in both sides, It shows too much that Seigen never trained his skills after reaching the peak of his technique and that he never came to think that Gennosuke would beat his technique, because Seigen knows his personality very well, And I wouldn't think that a brute samurai who thinks straight forward victory would end up with something so like that. |
Aug 18, 2021 10:09 PM
#45
That ending is just.... I dunno man. I understand that she killed herself because gennosuke was being a puppet but gennosuke didn't deserve that at all....Mie to be honest was just sorta an unstable element |
StefanbishoptonAug 18, 2021 10:15 PM
Aug 18, 2021 10:14 PM
#46
Also the toad and bick girl side story was most likely to showcase the themes of unfairness of samurai society but to be honest it wasn't necessary..... made the story drag a bit Anyways shigurui was pretty entertaining and altho the ending is kinda not to my taste I think it was a good conclusion as a whole (again unfair to gennosuke but whatever) |
Feb 4, 2022 5:33 AM
#47
I'm pretty disappointed with the ending it was somewhat rush they didn't show the other matches and what happen to that frog guy etc. and Gennosuke defeated him so quickly I was hopping for a epic fight. Although the whole manga is pretty enjoyable and art sytle is godlike but because of ending 6/10 for me. |
Feb 11, 2022 6:39 PM
#48
Entertaining manga , there was some needless filler , but great ending. That was absolutely brutal for Gennosuke , he lost everything. |
Feb 11, 2022 9:33 PM
#49
They really hit us with the Yu Yu Hakusho rushed ass tournament ending 1st half of the series was really good, then the story starts falling off after Iraku kills Kogan. I think if the tournament arc started right there instead of the revenge duel and all the bullshit that came after it and we got 40+ chapters all focused on the tournament and seeing all the fights, this could’ve been great. the whole 2nd half was just Fujiki & Mie acting like some fuckin dweebs and the author deciding to give us a headache with all this info dump and introducing us to a 100 random ass side characters and their long ass names that nobody can remember and their backstories and none of that shit mattered at all in the end fuck was the point. i wanted to see toadman vs dick girl smh why tf would you show me something if I couldn’t have it then |
Floyd Mayweather English Tutor |
Sep 10, 2022 10:57 AM
#50
I really wanted more on the frog guy and the girl with super-strength... I was enjoying that side story until it ended abruptly though the manga was really brutal, there's really no happy ending for anyone... hell, no happy anything just the crushing feeling of hopelessness which was refreshing. I like how everyone seems to have their own theories on why Mie killed herself and I'm definitely on team 'she killed herself because she won't marry a puppet' because that makes the most sense from what we've seen throughout the manga. |
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