| I also blame the poor choices in my bookstores. it's like 90% shojou, 10% out of order shounen manga :X |
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Sumiregawa-kun said: Actually, this is hilarious. I just went to the bookstore today. Do you know what I saw on the manga shelves? A full row of Naruto. 3/4 of a row of Negima. Another full row of One Piece. And so on. Did I see a SINGLE manga I wanted to buy? No. It's just as much the store's fault as "illegal scanlation." Fuck that scapegoat shit. Exactly. Last time I checked: Pluto: 16$ (@#$%!!) even for collection purposes. Nothing that I haven't already read a year ago. Not enough variety. Now Internet: Read whatever you want (I'm not restricted by English scans only so I can, literally, read ANYTHING I want) That was the reason why no one buys manga. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| I still buy the english releases of some manga I like, but with these prices it's kinda hard to buy every month. Though I do end up buying most of my manga at Half Price Books since it's cheaper. |
BlackWings said: Yeah, even though I buy as much as I could, I'm limited on money. #2 is the sole reason This. When the bookstore in my neighborhood closed down, their manga section was the first to get booted. They were practically giving away them all because they weren't selling at all. :/ Which, because we're a tiny town, it seemed I was the only one buying any manga. Hah. Now all of my hopes for Umineko's manga published in English are staked dead. ;___; |
SoneAnnaApr 17, 2010 3:56 PM
| manga is too expensive. I only buy things like Black Jack etc. Also, things like With The Light that have 2 volumes in one manga. It makes it cheaper and you get more at once. There should be a lot more of that. |
ImJustAPandaBear said: This. I can't believe they can't figure that out on their own and are instead blaming shoujo readers growing up. Wtf.I think it's because of the prices... $10 a volume is just insane, especially whenever the series you want to read is a long one. |
 ジリティック♡BEGINNER |
| Manga is expensive so :/ I only buy the series I really really like. |
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| Manga is pretty expensive, and that's why I usually only buy it with a coupon. I usually start reading stuff online and then if I really love it, I'll buy it. I watch a lot of anime, but I am getting more into reading manga. When our local bookstore closed, they were putting everything on clearance and I bought a lot of manga then. I would say that 80%-85% of the manga I own now I bought when it was super cheap at the closing bookstore. Knowing how cheap it was then almost makes it hard paying that $10-$15 now. |
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the_seventh_l said: I love how none of their reasons account for there being a freaking recession going on :| HAH! There used to be a very busy street in my town dotted with dozens of restaurants of all sorts. Each one of them was always packed, despite the fierce competition. By now, one in two of those places have closed their doors. I drive along that street occasionally during dinner hour. I can no longer find a single place that's more than 1/4 full. That's how tough it is nowadays, despite my country being one of those recovering better than others. Sometimes, one should take a look outside for the full story. Really. |
| basically 1) bookstores are too far away, here is 2 in 15 mile raduis and even if you get to one the 2) shelves mainly consist of naruto, bleach, one piece and some negima 3) which considering the price per novel (10$) nobody can afford those series, aisde from that companies are 3) too afriad to license other series and if they do its impossible to find and shop online... me personally have found it impossible to find "H20-footprints in sand", "Sundome", and Volume three+ Fate/stay night 4) and its just annoying waiting for "volumes" when other acquire weekly releases companies are too quick to point the finger at "illegal scanlations" but because of the companies downfalls and demographics is the reason why manga in NA fails |
| Maybe I should point out again why manga in America doesn't seem to sell well and why manga in America might be more expensive than in Japan according to Square Enix's Kouji Taguchi. ANN said: Taguchi noted that Japan Expo in Paris and Comic-Con International in San Diego each attracted over 100,000 people every July. However, he also said that he thinks that comics as a business is not faring well overseas. After Fullmetal Alchemist aired, Fullmetal Alchemist and Naruto were among the top-selling comics in America. However, their American sales were about 1/20th to 1/10th the size of their Japanese sales. Taguchi explained that the first reason for this difference is the higher price of overseas manga due to smaller print runs. His second reason is the relative lower amounts of cash that children have. The third reason is geographics — Taguchi said that a typical Tokyo resident can reach about three bookstores by bicycle, but children overseas have to go to a shopping mall on weekends with their parents. As a result, TV anime is extremely popular among many people, but not as many actually buy manga. If I could point out to Taguchi's first reason for a moment about smaller print runs being more expensive, I did a little research as to why that is since I'm still unfamiliar with the whole printing business. Apparently digital printing which has to do with small prints is more expensive if a lot of copies are made as opposed to offset printing if I'm not mistaken? So that may have something to do with it. Also unlike the manga anthology magazines like Shonen Jump that use newsprint paper which is probably cheaper, the tankobon 5 1/2 x 8 1/2' books generally use different paper (I don't know if it's bristol or not) that's more expensive. Some manga even involve that glossy material paper. And I think another reason that sales in manga aren't going well is that other than through anime/manga magaiznes or official anime websites, there is virtually no way to advertise manga and reach it to consumers who aren't already resourceful fans of anime/manga. And I don't think it's that companies don't try to advertise outside of the usual places either. Rather it may be that it's too expensive for them to advertise elsewhere. Lvhina said: 4) and its just annoying waiting for "volumes" when other acquire weekly releases Funny you mentioned that since Brian Hanson of Answerman on Anime News Network answered a question about why Del Ray possibly takes longer to release other titles like Air Gear compared to Negima. His answered was stated as this: Brian Hanson (a.k.a: Answerman) of ANN said: Unfortunately I'm not quite as knowledgeable on the manga industry compared to the anime side of things, but let's not forget that I spend my days managing a busy chain bookstore, so I've got a little bit of inside dirt on the publishing industry in general. Basically, it's simply much more expensive to maintain a concurrent release schedule between the English translations of the Japanese books than it is to simply wait it out. Official manga releases by major publishing labels like Del Rey have tons of Quality Assurance checks that need to be done before anything is finalized; all the editors and translators need to pour over every frame to make sure it all looks nice, and the Japanese licensors more often than not like to have a look at the finished product to give their final OK. And then of course the books have to be printed and shipped, which is hardly a quick procedure in the least. Scanlations obviously have little to no QA (which shows, of course) and there's no printing to be done whatsoever. Viz can justify the expenditure of maintaining a quick turnaround with a property like Naruto because, hey, it's Naruto, and it'll sell by the bucketloads no matter what. But honestly I think a bigger impediment towards making the case for a faster turnaround is the fact that the sales, aside from Naruto, don't quite seem to be there. Viz is also releasing day and date translations of Rumiko Takahashi's RIN-NE on their website, which definitely solves the problem of spending outrageous amounts of money on a printing press. But maybe it's just a lack of enthusiasm for the property in general, but most people I've seen who've read the samples on Viz's website haven't been too keen on going out and buying the books afterward. And another crucial point I need to bring up is that Del Rey is hoping that, once you're done with your bi-monthly or tri-monthly Air Gear volume, you'll maybe browse along the manga aisle and buy a different Del Rey manga to ease the wait. Publishers don't just come up with release schedules on a whim; they are very calculated decisions with the intent to maximize the potential sales of all their products, not just one. Maybe perhaps when you're jonesin' for more Air Gear that you might be inclined to start reading Negima, for example? So, to your point, manga companies are definitely scared sh*tless about scanlations, but they're still counting on the tried-and-true manga collector's market to make their daily bread. The piracy issue is a complicated one that no-one in the manga industry has quite figured out how to conquer yet, so failing that, they might as well rely on what's worked for them so far, and staggered release schedules are doing just enough to keep everything afloat on the business end. |
HypeathonApr 17, 2010 6:33 PM
AlexSadist-sama said: Well, with the economic downturn, it's not surprising. Except for the part about US graphic novels becoming MORE popular during the same time. Manga really isn't that expensive; the economic downturn has certainly hurt the sale of luxury cars (tens of thousands of dollars) and fancy dinners (hundreds of dollars), but it won't effect the sales of $5 comics. Anyways, I think what has happened is that manga fans have simply GROWN UP; it was a cool fad for North American readers for a while, but nowadays, a portion of them are no longer so enamored with the generic shounen out there, and are buying less. I read quite a lot of manga, but when I go to a bookstore, all they have is a bunch of crappy shounen/shoujo. Would I ever buy a copy? Absolutely not. |
| The only reason I don't buy manga is because it's too expensive. To be honest, even before the recession I didn't have the money to drop on manga all the time. I know some people don't think that $10 (more or less) a volume is very much but for me it is. :/ So libraries and scanlations for free? Yep. Otherwise I see the validation in the other two points as well. I got into manga because my friends liked it. Now? I'm the only one of my friends who likes it. There are definitely a lot of people who don't like it anymore, and it's not as popular with kids these days. (Which feels weird to say since I'm 17, but u no.) And long series are intimidating. When you look and see that a series has upwards of 20 volumes and is still going on...that's a buzz killington, bro. Just saying. |
| For me its the long running series for me at $9.99 a volume. The only retail manga I have on my bookshelves is Death note Vol1. I read the scans of manga online or watch the anime first then the manga (i enjoy them either way) and then buy them if I like them. I mean if the volumes were at like $2.50 or so I'd get like half of Death Note or Beck in a month and the rest in the next month. Something like that. |
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| It doesn't hep that these companies do half-ass jobs with their released then expect money for it. Show some effort, it may make some us more inclined to buy the product. |
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| Make Manga online buy easier and faster, and you'll get a profit. Seriously why shit get very sucked if you order stuff like manga online. |
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dtshyk said: 1. Female readers who established the shojo manga boom have grown out of the manga habit. Because that isn't sexist at all. There were girls reading manga even before the shoujo boom, this is like saying that only guys like anime/manga. Or that girls would only read romance or mahou shoujo. I don't support the dubbed anime market for the same reason I (mostly) quit buying manga: lack of quality. More often than not, are the official translations sloppy, or inaccurate. There have been many instances where I've seen better work from scanlation translators than from the official ones. And of course, you can expect a certain amount of "Americanized" content in every officially translated volume. Why pay money to read altered versions of manga, with it's Americanized content, when you can read authentic manga online for free? |
| #2 is what is the big killer to the downturn...Most people rather DL a long series than pay out $80 for it... |
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| I really can't afford to pay 10 bucks a volume when I have other stuff to buy, especially when I can read the whole volume in 30-40 minutes. So I'm super selective about what series I'll buy and mostly buy manga when it's on sale. |
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| I hate to read manga when it's not bought (at the bookstore) and yeah, I avoid long series. I almost always buy one-shots and short series, although I've been guilty with #2 but mostly with non-USA releases. |
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| It's the bloody economy. I don't think it's any of those reasons the article gave. Everyone's broke. Who has the money to buy manga anymore? Or even regular books? I know I don't. Plus, the number of manga titles were also decreasing. So...not much manga to buy neither....=( |
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| I blame fat losers for not buying manga and thinking "Oh! We can read online! Online is free!" And people here are too cheap to buy a manga series. Why not get jobs or save up money? I don't blame the companies for raising prices due to the fact that there has been less buyers and more sellers over the years. I still contribute and I like to see more manga overseas than just Japan. And, I'd be happy if scanlations are gone. |
| I think another factor to put in as to why manga does poorly in the states is that other than the popular shonen or shoujo titles is that it is ultimately harder to recommend manga titles than anime titles. With anime, there's always a new season and a preview guide that mentions all the anime titles, what studio it came from, when they will air and there will alwyas be people reviewing the first couple of episodes. With manga, I don't think there's anything like that. There isn't much of a reliable source in terms of where to find release dates for the latest volume of "x" manga regardless of which company licenses it (except for Naruto or One Piece of course. News of those releases tend to catch on sooner or later anyway). And I don't think hearing an anime adaptation being licensed in the states helps increase manga sales as significantly in America as in Japan since most don't really air on television. There isn't much of a reliable source other than maybe from Funimation or Rightstuf where you can find out about the latest releases. I think unless the companies can do anything about it (and I'm not sure if they could), I think the fans who do know where to find all the release dates of manga ahead of time could act as that relaible source and recommend titles, especially to people who know so little about manga and can be properly introduced to good titles. _______________________ Also people keep saying that scanlations have nothing to do with or aren't the main reason or whatever. Maybe they aren't themain reason for the decline of manga sales, but they certainly aren't helping increase sales either. Yes, scanalations are free, you can see titles that haven't been released, are taking too long to be released or are discontinued for some reason. But still, they're not making money!! Which is the whole problem! Companies need to find a way to make money! Not only that, but because they are online for viewing for free, it kinda ruins the whole "collector mentality" factor of buying printed media, which was actually mentioned in the article that dtshyk never exactly pointed out! |
HypeathonApr 18, 2010 12:26 AM
| Maybe it's because 14 dollars for a black and white comic book is regoddamndiculous. |
❝goodbyes are always hard, no matter how you might try to make them easier.❞ |
Yowane said: Maybe it's because 14 dollars for a black and white comic book is regoddamndiculous. Okay I have to ask, not that I'm deliberately trying to sound annoying, but did you actually read post # 69, or at the very least read page 4 of this thread, before posting your comment? I mean, really, did you? Not trying to sound mean, I swear! I'm just growing a little frusturated that everyone keeps saying the same thing and I'm just wondering what's up. |
| I feel rather disturbed at the amount of people who said: "I read online." Solely with the mindset that they will never buy manga. Which is what I sense through most of this thread. That's just my thoughts on the matter. |
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Yup said: I feel rather disturbed at the amount of people who said: "I read online." Solely with the mindset that they will never buy manga. Which is what I sense through most of this thread. That's just my thoughts on the matter. Lets see. Guide to reading manga through legit means. 1. Get a Job too pay for over priced manga. 2. Manage to enjoy the hack job translations. 3. Give up hope on ever reading really good lesser known/ controversial manga that never gets picked up. 4. Search like mad for out of print manga that will probably cost more. 5. Wait forever for releases and deal with licensing bullshit and litigation. 6. If all else fails pay for classes to learn Japanese and order online. Fuck it, I rather just read Scanlations. |
JigeroApr 18, 2010 2:43 AM
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
| Jigero covered it excellently, but I can't stop laughing at this point; Yup said: Yes, in order to be a proper manga fan, I should devote several YEARS to learning a new language, and then pay outrageous sums of money for manga shipped from overseas or specialty stores. Sounds like a GREAT business model. I can't imagine why more people don't do this. |
| Meh, this isn't anything new. It was already dropping in sales from online scans AGES ago. I have some manga of my own. Even completed series. Fact of the matter is I stopped buying some simply because I don't want to keep waiting for new chapters and volumes to come out in another decade or two. That or I stopped reading the series altogether that I bought. Another thing is, I usually read online the series I can never seem to find around here, or ones that just never get published in English. And don't start with the whole 'buy online' shit. It could cost even more that way sometimes. |
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infinite_zero said: With the cost of Manga in NA, not surprising. Totally agree. The cost of manga in Sweden is about less than half of the cost in USA, and the cost of manga in Thailand is around 10 times less. |
| Its sad to see manga popularity decreasing, but there are a lot of good reasons for it. And its a tough economy right now. And as previous stated before by a few others, I think the core of the problem is too many people not understanding what manga is, and automatically thinking that anime is supierior to it. |
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H3ctor said: Oh and for anyone hating on online scanlations, bear mind that scanners have typed things like "go out and buy the hard copy to support the mangaka" or if "thanks for reading. Please buy the volumes if you liked what you read". I can't tell how you many times I've seen that. lol, yeah, because that really has an effect on things. People are either going to buy or not buy based on their own opinions and situation, not because a page in their free scans tell them so. Being exposed to the manga at least is more likely to have an effect on someone willing to spend money. |
| It's to be expected, why pay for manga when you can read them on the net? It's the same reason why "video rental stores" are slowly fading out. People would much rather order movies from home, than actually go out and rent one from a retailer. The internet is a double edged sword really. |
| hahaha it's hilarious too see that there are people who think that scanlations are the main and probably only reason for the decline of manga sales. also i agree with everything Jigero said. and btw i wonder how many manga got licensed after they 1st became popular thanks to the scanlations? (it's rhetorical question) |
ZeroApr 18, 2010 12:08 PM
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| I never said it was a perfect system for everyone. I'm just listing alternatives so that people can buy manga. It's better than never paying for manga and laughing at the guy who says you should support the people who make it to some extent. =.= |
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Yup said: I never said it was a perfect system for everyone. I'm just listing alternatives so that people can buy manga. It's better than never paying for manga and laughing at the guy who says you should support the people who make it to some extent. =.= Personally speaking, while getting a job or learning Japanese do technically count as alternatives, that probrably serves as a separate problem. Though I won't go into much detail about that, but I will agree that it's all about finding ways to support manga sales. Which I think is another reason why there's a lack of a "collector mentality." With some fans (not all, but some), there's more of a "entitlement issue." It's all about wanting to find the perfect translations, the perfect number of pages per volume, the perfect paper material, the perfect retail price, the perfect quality, etc., etc., etc.. The companies could pour all sorts of thought into how to release a manga title while being hyper-aware of what the fans want and the fans themselves still wouldn't be satisfied! I can sort of understand a sense of demand for good quality out of a company, but it doesn't really help to support the industry in anyway (especially if as a fan, you have every intention of giving a shit) if people are going to always point out every reason to not support the products these companies hand out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that even defeat the purpose of informing people the status of sales in the industry through these articles if fans are going to just throw a sense of entitlement and not give a shit? |
| People keep parroting the same wrong explanations, no matter how many times they're shown to be incorrect. "The economy" doesn't make any sense, since US graphic novels (comics), which cost just as much as manga, have INCREASED their sales in the same time period that manga has declined. "Scanlations" also can't be the reason, considering that scanlations have been widespread since at least 2005, and yet, manga sales INCREASED from 2005 to 2008. The only difference between scanlations now and 5 years ago is that more niche, relatively lesser known manga are being translated...stuff that the companies don't localize and distribute in the North American market, anyways. Of course, I fully expect to read some variation of "the economy" or "scanlations" in the majority of posts from here on, too. |
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