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Sorry for being late, I was abroad these days.

Well, surely I won't find any fan of EoE who would agree with me, and I myself am not in fact a fan of EoE. Probably loving EoE (possibly even more than the original series) has some correlation with interpreting the movie as a continuation/improvement of NGE, which I strongly disagree on.

Nah, Anno depression was at its peak before creating Evangelion, which he wrote mainly as a reflection of his past condition. Nevertheless he surely was depressed after the "failure" of NGE. However, the epic finale for fans is exactly what EoE is, especially compared to the finale of NGE. No, friendship is not needed for having an epic finale, nor happiness. He gave fans exactly what they asked for: an epic and complex conclusion of Evangelion with a lot of blood and deaths. An artistic one? Yes, for sure, but an epic nonetheless.
EoE at the time was definitely a mainstream anime production, considering NGE was the most discussed anime ever. And many mainstream anime production had very serious endings at the time; so to speak, generic shonen-ish adaptations did not exist before the 2000s.
The original ending of Evangelion is objectively more experimental than the EoE ending. In my opinion it was also more personal, but definitely EoE is very artistic.
EoE was actually made to appease the complaining fans. In fact, none of them complained anymore. Nonetheless, EoE is surely a middle finger to all of them, clearly because Anno is not an idiot and hated those fans, despite accepting to come to terms with them.

Shinji's condition reflects reclusion syndromes for the entire movie. I accept that towards the ending something more positive comes out of its mouth, but still his only action is an attempt to choke Asuka. Ok, you interpret it as a neutral action, and her words are also neutral you say, and also the atmosphere, but still there is not much positivity. EoE for sure is not evidently positive. There are a couple of positive sentences, and that's it. Anybody is free to interpret those words as the true message of the movie, but they do not provide any evidence whatsoever. Even a ray of sunlight in the ending could be enough to interpret a story as positive, by your logic. And I'm not saying it's a wrong logic, I'm just saying it's all an interpretation.

Well, I also find it very hard to think that Anno wanted to imbue EoE with such a positive message, but all he could think of was a post-apocalyptic scenario, where humanity is extinct and the protagonist chokes the girl he loves (to check if she's alive?), and she replies "how disgusting". Especially after the same story in NGE ends with the same protagonist smiling happily surrounded by all the people he knows cheering for him, under a clear blue sky. Evangelion is great because anybody can interpret it how he/she pleases.

Well, personally I think a non "exaggeratedly positive" ending today would be ridiculous, we're not in the 90s anymore, nor in the 2000s or the 2010s. Definitely I prefer the EoE ending, but the ending of 3.0+1.0 is the right one for the present society, and for Anno himself, or at least for the person he is now. However I strongly disagree that relying on others is unhealthy; actually it is the best way to get away from a dark place. Personally I believe we all should learn to love ourselves from the love we receive from others.

Finally, remember that an interpretation is never wrong, and yours is as good as mine. We're just discussing, and I don't want anyone to change their opinion, nor to agree with mine.

like ur nge commentary and also stealing ur rating scale

Personally I do not think Shinji reaches the same conclusion as in the original NGE: the narration reaches the same conclusion, but the character of Shinji is evidently pretty different. Surely he needs to face his flaws, but I do not see him doing it, nor trying. Actually the only thing he tries to do is killing another person, which is not exactly - in my opinion - facing your flaws. On the contrary, the Shinji at the end of the original NGE is a lot more confident in himself, more mature, more determined and finally at peace with himself.
I do not think NGE is naive, nor EoE more mature. Simply EoE is more pessimistic, and people tend to interpret pessimism as maturity. The world is not black or white, it all depends on how you look at it. The Shinji of NGE, at the end, looks at the world with a smile, even after losing so much. The Shinji of EoE does not even look at the world, instead he tries to destroy what is left (Asuka).
It is true that Shinji rejects Instrumentality. However, his mindset is not positive like in the original NGE: he does not smile, he is not surrounded by people cheering for him, he is not symbolically under a clear blue sky. He is sad, he cries, he tries to kill the girl he likes, he is completely alone, in a post-apocalyptic collapsed world, with probably the entire human race already extinct.

As far as the movie goes, Shinji could have as well rejected Instrumentality because he is unable to make a clear decision, and prefers to stay in a well-known environment (the world) despite it being full of suffering. This also has a lot in common with reclusion syndromes, where the subject prefers to stay in a bad condition, instead of trying to improve it. And Shinji shows all the symptoms of reclusion, by being unable to act throughout the length of the movie, refusing human contact, exhibiting violent attitude with the people he loves, searching for solitude and being pessimistic about every action possible.
Sure, he does reject Instrumentality, but not thanks to a renewed confidence: this is an interpretation. Another interpretation is that he cannot accept uncertainty, so he prefers the suffering of the present; he is not able to face reality, and in fact he does not face Asuka, he just tries to kill her.

Personally, I firmly disagree that rejecting Instrumentality means that Shinji is committed to face reality, or even that he is able to make a decision and follow it. He does also reject Instrumentality in the original NGE (and also in Rebuild and the manga adaptation by Sadamoto), but none of these works shares the same negative tone of EoE. If Anno wanted to convey the same message, and used the same narrative solution (Instrumentality rejection), then why did he changed the tone so much from NGE to EoE? I am not saying EoE is a bad movie, nor that it has a bad ending. I like EoE very much, but I think it lies on a completely different plane compared to NGE. Interpreting EoE as the actual continuation and ending of NGE is - in my opinion - totally wrong. Anno itself always said that the true conclusion of NGE is the conclusion you see in NGE, and never would he have created EoE if not under pressure by the fans of the original series.

Therefore, concerning the message behind the entire narration, I think we need to consider the circumstances of writing of EoE. I think interpreting the message behind EoE as positive and uplifting is denying that Anno was already happy with NGE, he did not want to rewrite it, he was forced to do it, and he even received death threats from fans unhappy with the conclusion of the TV series (they are displayed in EoE). Anno created Evangelion to free himself from his demons (depression and other social problems), and at the same time to try and free an entire generation of young Japanese people from their demons (consider Anno was only 35 when Eva came out, so he was part of that generation himself). This is why the message behind the original NGE is so positive, and the message of hope is so evident (what you call "naive"). However, Anno witnessed the failure of his entire project when people rejected the end of the original NGE, asking for a rewriting. I cannot possibly think he ever put a positive and uplifting message in EoE.

Everybody is free to interpret Evangelion as they see fit, nor I believe there is a correct or incorrect way of interpreting works of art. But I tell you that the more I read about the history and society of contemporary Japan, about the postmodern world, about the history and development of Japanese animation and about the social deviations derived from Japanese subcultures, the more I find it obvious that EoE is a completely different thing compared to the original NGE, because Anno is a genius in his own way, he is extremely conscious of the surroundings, and he always puts himself into his works, especially the Evangelion series; he did for EoE too. For instance, the Rebuild remakes do not resonate with a lot of old fans of the series, because Anno is a very different person now, and one finally at peace. It is a different Evangelion because the author behind changed so much, and he knows that the audience (and the society) changed as well.
That being said, I think EoE is more pessimistic than NGE, because I believe Anno was a lot more pessimistic when he created it. Actually, I have always hated him for coming to terms with oblivious fans and creating EoE, but now I do even think EoE is all just a big allegory of the relationship between art and people, creators and users, the single and the masses, and a huge criticism towards Eva fans. And there is no space for uplifting messages there, unless maybe on the hidden surface (not the narrative surface, nor the depth of the work).

Sorry for the long reply, and thanks for your message.

Happy birthday man, I hope you have a great day.

I really liked your review on NGE. I totally agree with your point on how NGE is a show designed to brazenly depict the flaws in the various characters who each have their personal issues.

It's funny how you said that the show seems to help people cope with depression considering how the director was very depressed himself

From Wikipedia: "Anno's history of clinical depression[12] was the main source for many of the psychological elements of the series and its characters, as he wrote down on paper several of the trials and tribulations of his condition. During the show's production, Anno became disenchanted with the Japanese "otaku" lifestyle. For this and other reasons (although perhaps by design as well), Evangelion's plot became increasingly dark and psychological as the series progressed, despite being broadcast in a children's television timeslot. Anno felt that people should be exposed to the realities of life at as young an age as possible, and by the end of the series all attempts at traditional narrative logic were abandoned, with the final two episodes taking place within the main character's mind."

Me again, interesting you state that you plan on binging as much of Gainax as you can, because I am also doing that. I've seen my share of Gainax, from the greats of Gurren Lagann, Evangelion, and FLCL, to the obscure & trash like Chocolate Panic Picture Show, The Wings of Honeamise pilot, the Panty & Stocking specials, & even the Ranma 1/2 specials that Gainax lent a hand to.
The key (for lack of a better term) Gainax works that I haven't watched yet are Abenobaiashi Shopping Mall, Mahoromatic, Dantalian no Shoka, Medaka Box, & Corpse Princess. To name a few.

Can i send you a friend request? I've enjoyed conversing with you

Honestly, I find rebuild to be such a mislead quite honestly. Because to me, a rebuild would imply starting from scratch to create something new, out of something old. But the "rebuild" of Evangelion movies don't do that. "Rehash" is more like it quite honestly. 1.0 is pure recap of the first 6 episodes from the original series, while it does add a few new elements that those original 6 didn't have, those elements are nowhere near enough to be considered a "rebuild" of the plot. "Remake" (that's if I'm being extremely generous btw) is more like it.

I also have similar feelings to 2.0, and honestly, it's the one I hate the most out of the rebuild movies, despite the fact that I gave it a 5/10. I feel like 2.0 is attempting to try & take a step to "rebuilding", but at the same time, it's too scared to even do so in the first place. 2.0 is in the worst possible scenario for me. The material from the original series that it does adapt, pardon me, "rebuild" is handled & executed way worse here than it was in the original series. And the new material/differences in how events play out, are also very bad due to 2.0's poor pacing and having way less impact than the original series did.

I'm not going to repeat my thoughts of 3.0 here, as that isn't necessary. Overall, this "rebuild" of Evangelion was just a fucking mess quite honestly. Hideaki Anno stated he wanted to rebuild Eva in an attempt to garner new fans and make it "easier to understand". But that was just a disguise of "I wanna ride the Evangelion money train for as long as I possibly can". The rebuilds are just a joke, but they're not even a funny joke, they're just disappointing (and bad). But to end this off, on a more positive note. Have you ever seen Kare Kano & Gunbuster? Hideaki Anno directed both of these series, and based on your thoughts above, you seem to be a huge fan of Anno's directing. Both Kare Kano & Gunbuster have his finger prints all over it (more so Kare Kano than Gunbuster).

So, I read up on you Eva 3.0 review. To be frank, other than the point about Kaworu & the Visuals, I don't disagree with a thing you said about 3.0, I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly as to why 3.0 is such a bad movie. I'm going to real quickly explain why I thought Kaworu wasn't ruined in 3.0, and why I don't hate the visuals of 3.0 before I explain my thoughts about 3.0.

Maybe I'm just being too generous here, maybe I wasn't paying enough attention on my watch of the original series beforehand, but I thought Kaworu was the character they fucked up the least in the rebuild movies, you state in your review examples of how the rebuilds ruined the characters, such as degrading Asuka to a generic tsundere with no depth, & making Shinji into the biggest idiot in 3.0, both examples being very much true. But when I compare Kawaoru's character from 3.0, to the Kawaoru of the original series, it's not as in depth or as complex of a character for sure, and he's still better in the original series regardless, but Kaworu was the one saving grace of 3.0 for me. As for the visuals, I thought they were the best of the rebuilds personally. I wan't to let you know, I deeply despise how the rebuilds look, can't stand those films on a visual level at all to be honest with you. But I thought 3.0 was actually the least offensive personally, & there were even some mechanical designs & world details that made me go "Huh, that actually looks kinda cool, I can't believe I'm praising a rebuild film for its visuals"

Now onto my thoughts about 3.0. It's such an odd case for me, I think it's the worst out of them, but it's the one I enjoyed watching the most out of all the rebuild movies. I don't think that what they did was good, but I have to commend the teams efforts for actually trying something new with this, ahem, REBUILD of Evangelion, instead of trying to REHASH Evangelion like what 1.0 & 2.0 did. Again, I also quite liked the visuals of 3.0, not that I thought they were amazing or anything, but compared to the garbage that is 1.0 & 2.0 (even though 2.0 has some well animated scenes admittedly & 3.0 was kinda lacking on the animation front), I have to say I liked 3.0's visuals.And again, I liked Kaworu's character in 3.0, I'm gonna be honest, I actually enjoyed some of the scenes that he was in. Other than those, I absolutely hate 3.0, and I'm never going to watch it again. Though, if someone were to point a gun at my head and go "Alright bitch, pick a RoE movie to watch". I'd pick 3.0 easily.

I see, makes sense. I imagined it would be something like that. I also wouldn't be super sure about some of the ratings on my list, I should go back and mark every show I watched on the period of 2013-2015 because I'm definitely not sure how I would feel about most of those shows now. The one advantage I can see for having everything in Completed is so that people nows which shows you've seen and what to recommend, maybe you could put that in the tags if they're on your Plan to watch list (and if you feel like it, ofc).

Hey, just curious, if you say you've watched lots of anime before, why not adding them to the list?

Thanks! Also, between you and me, I'm really not all that new to anime, I've been watching since 2013, it's just a way to excuse the pathetic amount of anime I watched.

You know, I usually ask for a bit of interaction before accepting a friend request, but I see that Katawa Shoujo profile pic and I just can't not accept ;)

Great Eva 3.0 review mate.