New
Dec 23, 2023 1:54 AM
#1
| I did this breakdown for another user but I feel like it's worth for its own post, so here you go, a comparison between the manga and anime in favor of the manga. I used to watch the anime back until 2009 and then switched to the manga because it became unbearable and occasionally checking out the anime in the following years. 1. The manga is uncensored. It's the story where everything is canon, positive and negative. No fillers, other than some arcs going a bit too long later on. Scenes have more blood, violence depiction is higher, you will see scenes in their actual uncensored form and not toned down / censored for the anime This means for the anime:
The following image is a side by side comparison manga vs anime. It's mostly spoilerfree but there are a few pictures that show scenes from the later series. But I think new readers won't realize what is happening or why as context is missing. I did leave out extreme examples. https://i.ibb.co/WGn8tNh/censorship-onepiece.jpg Not beautiful but it does the trick. You want more? https://opwiki.org/wiki/Zensuren_im_Anime Here, it's in German though but the images speak for themselves. There are many scenes that were changed from the manga to anime. The manga has a slight edge with this over the anime's depicted content. Since the anime censors so many scenes, often gruesome or serious scenes feel out of place, because previous content was toned down for viewership. This doesn't happen in the manga, where violence is depicted more often. 2. The pacing Yes, the pacing is much better (what most people mean with "faster") for the story. The anime in the very beginning only adapted 2 chapters for each episode which can be considered snail pace for nowadays standards. Nowadays Toei Animation only adapts 0,4/0,5/0,6 chapters per episode. See, what's wrong with that? Out of the 20 minutes in an episode, you will get 3 minutes of actual story progression per episode. So the rest is filled with: repetitive reaction shots, endless running scenes, filler scenes, increased onscreen time for specific characters and in general with stuff that never happened in the manga. One Piece manga currently has 1100 chapters but One Piece anime has 1090 episodes. You get that? This just feels so wrong. One Piece s a relic of an old-fashioned release model of trying to hook people with weekly episodes to have their interest maintained. However, this is outdated because it released in the late 90s and there was less competition back then. Due to a triangle relationship of the IP between Shueisha, Toei Animation and Fuji TV we will never get a seasonal anime until One Piece ends. One Piece used to do a lot of filler episodes and kinda stopped at one point doing them altogether but Toei sneakily started adding the aforementioned fillers into the canon episodes in return. So good thing: Less filler episodes. Bad thing: They are now found in the actual episodes. Worst thing: Less new story content and everything is stretched even further than Luffy could ever do. Nowadays, there is so much competition that you can't release another series like this. Which is why today's manga to anime adaptations become seasonal. Less episodes, more content, better animation. Sadly, OP won't get this treatment because Fuji TV is against doing this. They like their sunday numbers. Toei Animation's treatment for One Piece is the reason Shueisha and Weekly Shonen Jump are more careful nowdays to who they sell their licenses. If One Piece was seasonal from the start and adapting 3-4 chapters per episode, like so many other anime do, the anime wouldn't even have more than 375 Episodes. Yes, 700 episodes scratched off the list, just like that. One Pace, a fanproject that cuts down the anime episodes (sometimes 3-5 episodes into a single one) tries to fix the pacing by removing all the filler but you still end up with 600 episodes in the long run. Their editing is limited. They aren't magicians after all, since it's a structural problem of the anime. If you want an example of how bad it can get: Toei Animation adapted Dress Rosa (an arguably good arc, in retrospective in the manga) from 100 manga chapters into 117 anime episodes. You can read a manga chapter in under 10 minutes, an anime episode goes for 20 minutes. And yet they adapted more episodes than manga chapters. DR made a lot of people jump into the manga. If it was seasonal, the arc would have been done in 25 episodes max. So we had 1000 manga minutes and 2340 anime minutes. That's just mind boggling and is objectively horrible. Wano Kuni goes for 191 episodes (including a few filler episodes) with just 150 chapters as the base... 3. Horrendous animation quality Oda has a distinct artstyle that others would consider "ugly" but that's often coming from the fact that they are exposed to the anime rather than the manga because Toei has used over 50 different animation directors for the series. Over 50 different people with 50 different artstyles when translating the manga artstyle to anime, which often leads to very strange body proportions (even stranger than the manga) and ugly faces. For me, Oda has one of the most beautiful artstyles, but you have to accept its goofyness, its childish charm in return. It never turns into Bleach but Oda envokes great imagery with his environments and exegerrated faces. I'm a big fan how he draws the cryfaces of characters as they feel genuine. Now take a look at some animation directors for the series: Yuji Kondou: https://opwiki.org/images/Yuji_Kondou.jpg Kenji Yokoyama: https://opwiki.org/images/Kenji_Yokoyama.jpg Shigefumi Shingaki: https://opwiki.org/images/Shigefumi_Shingaki.jpg Kazuo Takigawa: https://opwiki.org/images/Kazuo_Takigawa.jpg Masahiro Shimanuki: https://opwiki.org/images/Masahiro_Shimanuki.jpg Now, none of these are horribly bad, however, they all differ in quality and style. Now compare all of them with their current Animation director for all the movies of One Piece starting with Movie 10: Masayuki Sato: https://opwiki.org/images/Masayuki_Sato.jpg Or take Keiichi Ichikawa who worked on Episode 927, 1000, Heart of Gold Special: https://opwiki.org/images/Keiichi_Ichikawa.jpg This is how the series could always look like, if it was seasonal. See the difference? The characters have great proportions and depth, they don't look flat, they don't look wrong. Here is one of the worst offenders of the anime: Naoki Tate: https://opwiki.org/images/Naoki_Tate.jpg He got action scenes fluently and right but fucks up the faces and proportions in return. None of these issues exist in the manga. Oda's artstyle gets a bit messier later down the road but he nails his proportions and faces. The anime counterparts often look like caricatures. Here is a spoilerfree image of a character that appears later in the story: Anime left, manga right: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F6m5a29vi8sj71.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D3ce1cbc3277fbfe4717eb51636053663e3766777 Here another one: https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-981231b06c9e97501fac622ba57e01e0 See the proportions? Look at the head and the breast size. This happens all the time. Toei ups the fanservice too much. There is fanservice in the manga but the anime overdoes it. Add the horrible animation and you got Frankenstein: The Anime. Due to so many different animation directors, the anime of One Piece fluctuates in animation and artstyle quality because so many people are involved from episode to episode. This doesn't just end here, they also fuck up pivotal moments from the manga. I would like to go deeper into this, but it would be a big spoiler of the abilities of characters which were depicted much weaker and much slower than they should have. Additionally, pivotal arcs that were extremely well done in the manga, like Marine Ford arc, are horribily animated in the anime as well. It's just so disappointing. As for the manga, you can read at your own pace. You can rest on pages you find beautiful and even look for easter eggs or background details. Oda's artstyle later evolves, it's very simplistic early on and only starts to truly open up (like the world building) when they are on the Grand Line. 4. Cover Stories and Color Spreads The manga has additonally two big advantages over the anime. There is a thing called "Cover Stories" where Oda tells stories involving side characters during the chapter-pages. These are all canon. You don't see them in the anime. One-image stories that often go for like 10-15 chapters in a row. It's cool world building, outside of the chapters content and you get to see characters that haven't appeared in a while and simply see what they are doing while the Strawhats experience their adventures. And another great thing about the manga are color spreads. Beautiful double spreads that are basically Oda's "Fanart". He often draws the strawhats in fantastical environments or celebrating specific holidays, or other strange combinations. They are beautiful to look at. Here are some spoilerfree ones: https://shorturl.at/etABJ https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F3bt5nr30kwr61.jpg https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fqmtqarruiwr61.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fc/5c/ce/fc5ccea36e414637ad07e963c7fb5a43.jpg https://zoronamiplus.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/6/7/37674207/9529187_orig.png None of them are canon. These are taken from East Blue Saga. There are many more and much more beautiful ones, but I don't want to show you characters that appear later in the story. Trust me, some CS are breathtaking. You simply get the sense that Oda loves drawing the series. One comment I saw while searching these: "It feels like going through a family album". The only times these are translated into the anime are very short moments during openings. There. 4 good reasons why you should read the manga over the anime. The only things I can think about the anime doing better is voice acting and music but that's only thanks to the medium. And as for the music, you can listen to it while reading. Imo, Toei fucked up that aspect as well because they reuse the same music over many pivotal moments, making scenes feel weak because they didn't compose NEW music for those. So the songs you get to hear in the anime's first 50 episodes will be reused even 400-800 episodes later. They are kings of recycling. This isn't meant to trash any opinions on the anime, but rather offering advice for new readers/fans. If somebody still wants to give the anime a go, then go for it. But One Piece is the most popular and successful manga and not anime. For multiple reasons. I'm longing for the day when One Piece gets the anime treatment it deserves, on one level with Attack on Titan for example. Thanks for reading. |
MorayneDec 23, 2023 2:00 AM
Dec 23, 2023 2:10 AM
#2
| So your take is that the manga has better animation than the anime, while it is not even "moving"?! Certainly an interesting take. |
Dec 23, 2023 2:20 AM
#3
Reply to ktg
So your take is that the manga has better animation than the anime, while it is not even "moving"?! Certainly an interesting take.
| @ktg I'm not sure how you got that. That isn't my take at all, since I gave four different reasons and the horrible animation is just one of those reasons. The "moving" animation in the One Piece anime doesn't bring you anything to the table if everything moves at a snail pace with bad animation on top of it. This means fillers that stretch the canon content to unbearable lengths. This means bad animation that isn't great to look at. This means even pivotal moments in the manga getting fucked up in the anime, like Gear 4 against Doflamingo which is depicted as fast and strong in the manga but slow and weak in the anime. It's not a joy to watch an episode, despite it being animated, when the story and characters don't move anywhere. Do you get what I mean? Just because a scene is (badly) animated, doesn't make it automatically better than a still image. Oda's artstyle and art > horribly animated scenes with bad animation style. This is the point I tried to make under the section with animation quality. It's why I gave the animation director of the movies a pass, because there is actual budget and work put into it. But I wish the entire anime was like this. Idk how you read my entire post and take that from it. |
MorayneDec 23, 2023 2:39 AM
Dec 23, 2023 2:39 AM
#4
Reply to Morayne
@ktg
I'm not sure how you got that. That isn't my take at all, since I gave four different reasons and the horrible animation is just one of those reasons.
The "moving" animation in the One Piece anime doesn't bring you anything to the table if everything moves at a snail pace with bad animation on top of it. This means fillers that stretch the canon content to unbearable lengths. This means bad animation that isn't great to look at. This means even pivotal moments in the manga getting fucked up in the anime, like Gear 4 against Doflamingo which is depicted as fast and strong in the manga but slow and weak in the anime.
It's not a joy to watch an episode, despite it being animated, when the story and characters don't move anywhere. Do you get what I mean?
Just because a scene is (badly) animated, doesn't make it automatically better than a still image.
Oda's artstyle and art > horribly animated scenes with bad animation style.
This is the point I tried to make under the section with animation quality. It's why I gave the animation director of the movies a pass, because there is actual budget and work put into it. But I wish the entire anime was like this. Idk how you read my entire post and take that from it.
I'm not sure how you got that. That isn't my take at all, since I gave four different reasons and the horrible animation is just one of those reasons.
The "moving" animation in the One Piece anime doesn't bring you anything to the table if everything moves at a snail pace with bad animation on top of it. This means fillers that stretch the canon content to unbearable lengths. This means bad animation that isn't great to look at. This means even pivotal moments in the manga getting fucked up in the anime, like Gear 4 against Doflamingo which is depicted as fast and strong in the manga but slow and weak in the anime.
It's not a joy to watch an episode, despite it being animated, when the story and characters don't move anywhere. Do you get what I mean?
Just because a scene is (badly) animated, doesn't make it automatically better than a still image.
Oda's artstyle and art > horribly animated scenes with bad animation style.
This is the point I tried to make under the section with animation quality. It's why I gave the animation director of the movies a pass, because there is actual budget and work put into it. But I wish the entire anime was like this. Idk how you read my entire post and take that from it.
| @Morayne Yes, I was lazy to react all of that bullshit, but it still does not make it true. Firstly, you subjectively chose 4 random aspects, while this is not enough to talk about the comparison. Just for one example, we need to talk about sounds, because that a huge advantage towards animation. To understand it, imagine comparing basketball players based on only their weight. It's an idiotic idea. Secondly, yes, when we are talking about ANIMATION, then being a bad animation will always be better than not even being an animation. Thirdly, your last point is a complete bullshit. What we can actually tell is that AT THIS POINT the cover stories are not adapted, but you don't know if at some point those will be adapted. It like saying that manga is better, because there are some chapters that are not adapted yet in the anime. And talking about color spreads when the whole anime is colored, is just a joke. Morayne said: but slow and weak in the anime. I agree, that's why Luffy beat Doflamingo, because it is slow and weak... Holy shit... Morayne said: It's not a joy to watch an episode, despite it being animated, when the story and characters don't move anywhere. Do you get what I mean? Yes, you had free time to make some stupid takes. The only thing that can be criticized is the pacing and that's not even a problem everywhere. And what exactly get in return from the manga? Nothing. The manga is not really faster, you will learn the same amount of information, you won't finish the story significantly faster and you lose the animation, colors and sounds. The anime has higher level of engagement than a manga, that's why it is simply a better choice to go with. There are researches about this: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279463850_Is_the_Movie_Better_than_the_Book_Differences_in_Engagement_and_Delayed_Recall_of_Video_and_Text_Cases_in_Science Sadly (or not), if you want to have higher level of immersion, emotional engagement, anime will always be better and that's a fact. |
Dec 23, 2023 2:51 AM
#5
| Ok? Do you think long running anime having multiple animation directors is something new? One person physically cannot correct every single drawing in every single episode. Anime is by design a collaborative effort. Also the Naoki Tate slander, lmao. If you think that one of the most respected, veteran animators to ever come out of Toei can't animate maybe that's just a YOU problem. |
Dec 23, 2023 3:02 AM
#6
| I have watched the anime and read the manga and I will always tell anyone to watch the anime rather than reading the manga, the pacing wouldn't be a problem if you get used to it, that's how I watched 1000 eps without getting bored.. |
Dec 23, 2023 3:06 AM
#7
| @Morayne here comes another manga elitist thinking pacing is objective. Sorry but pacing is based on the viewer's mindset and emotions. It's all subjective. Me & many others are perfectly fine with Toei One Piece. This post was 100% pointless. Also, Dressrosa was perfect despite the constant Rebecca flashbacks. |
| ๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฅ๐๐๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐จ ๐ฅ๐๐ง๐๐๐๐ฉ๐ก๐ฎ ๐๐๐ฃ๐. - ๐๐๐๐ |
Dec 23, 2023 3:09 AM
#8
Reply to LuFFY-Itachi
I have watched the anime and read the manga and I will always tell anyone to watch the anime rather than reading the manga, the pacing wouldn't be a problem if you get used to it, that's how I watched 1000 eps without getting bored..
| @LuFFY-Itachi You're a perfect human being. I 100% agree with you. |
| ๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฅ๐๐๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐จ ๐ฅ๐๐ง๐๐๐๐ฉ๐ก๐ฎ ๐๐๐ฃ๐. - ๐๐๐๐ |
Dec 23, 2023 3:13 AM
#9
Thank you for all the time and effort you put into this post and I agree with all of the stuff you've said |
Dec 23, 2023 3:34 AM
#10
Reply to ktg
@Morayne Yes, I was lazy to react all of that bullshit, but it still does not make it true.
Firstly, you subjectively chose 4 random aspects, while this is not enough to talk about the comparison. Just for one example, we need to talk about sounds, because that a huge advantage towards animation. To understand it, imagine comparing basketball players based on only their weight. It's an idiotic idea.
Secondly, yes, when we are talking about ANIMATION, then being a bad animation will always be better than not even being an animation.
Thirdly, your last point is a complete bullshit. What we can actually tell is that AT THIS POINT the cover stories are not adapted, but you don't know if at some point those will be adapted. It like saying that manga is better, because there are some chapters that are not adapted yet in the anime. And talking about color spreads when the whole anime is colored, is just a joke.
I agree, that's why Luffy beat Doflamingo, because it is slow and weak... Holy shit...
Yes, you had free time to make some stupid takes.
The only thing that can be criticized is the pacing and that's not even a problem everywhere. And what exactly get in return from the manga? Nothing. The manga is not really faster, you will learn the same amount of information, you won't finish the story significantly faster and you lose the animation, colors and sounds.
The anime has higher level of engagement than a manga, that's why it is simply a better choice to go with. There are researches about this: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279463850_Is_the_Movie_Better_than_the_Book_Differences_in_Engagement_and_Delayed_Recall_of_Video_and_Text_Cases_in_Science
Sadly (or not), if you want to have higher level of immersion, emotional engagement, anime will always be better and that's a fact.
Firstly, you subjectively chose 4 random aspects, while this is not enough to talk about the comparison. Just for one example, we need to talk about sounds, because that a huge advantage towards animation. To understand it, imagine comparing basketball players based on only their weight. It's an idiotic idea.
Secondly, yes, when we are talking about ANIMATION, then being a bad animation will always be better than not even being an animation.
Thirdly, your last point is a complete bullshit. What we can actually tell is that AT THIS POINT the cover stories are not adapted, but you don't know if at some point those will be adapted. It like saying that manga is better, because there are some chapters that are not adapted yet in the anime. And talking about color spreads when the whole anime is colored, is just a joke.
Morayne said:
but slow and weak in the anime.
but slow and weak in the anime.
I agree, that's why Luffy beat Doflamingo, because it is slow and weak... Holy shit...
Morayne said:
It's not a joy to watch an episode, despite it being animated, when the story and characters don't move anywhere. Do you get what I mean?
It's not a joy to watch an episode, despite it being animated, when the story and characters don't move anywhere. Do you get what I mean?
Yes, you had free time to make some stupid takes.
The only thing that can be criticized is the pacing and that's not even a problem everywhere. And what exactly get in return from the manga? Nothing. The manga is not really faster, you will learn the same amount of information, you won't finish the story significantly faster and you lose the animation, colors and sounds.
The anime has higher level of engagement than a manga, that's why it is simply a better choice to go with. There are researches about this: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279463850_Is_the_Movie_Better_than_the_Book_Differences_in_Engagement_and_Delayed_Recall_of_Video_and_Text_Cases_in_Science
Sadly (or not), if you want to have higher level of immersion, emotional engagement, anime will always be better and that's a fact.
| @ktg ktg said: Yes, I was lazy to react all of that bullshit, but it still does not make it true. Firstly, I'm not sure I want to argue with somebody who calls everything I wrote "bullshit" if he hasn't read it at all and admits he was too lazy to do it. This is perhaps my second and last reply to you, because you don't seem to grasp what I'm saying, even on the second reply and rather focus on things I never tried to say. Secondly, I don't know why you would think that my four points are "random". I specifically chose aspects of both media that are important in experiencing the story itself in the best way possible. So I critciized the anime for: It's adaptation of the source material (how does it differentiate to the manga), in animation quality (how well is it animated compared to the art and content of the manga), pacing (how fast or slow the story moves forward) and differences of the manga (cover stories and color spreads that aren't adapted + a short comment on the music and voice acting). I would say that the voice acting is my most underappreciated factor, there I would agree. I should have put more work into highlighting the good voice acting of the anime, one of its few strengths. Just for one example, we need to talk about sounds, because that a huge advantage towards animation. To understand it, imagine comparing basketball players based on only their weight. It's an idiotic idea. I don't understand the comparison of the weights of the Basketballers, but I understand what you mean of myself ignoring the sounds. Probably has to do with Toei Animation borrowing and recycling sounds from Dragon Ball Z for One Piece, making the sound of One Piece feel less unique, giving it less of an identity and making it a boring experience in return. An aspect that I could have talked more about, similar to voice acting. But just like the music of One Piece, the constant recycling makes it a worse experience than it should be. Undeserving for such a great source material. ktg said: Secondly, yes, when we are talking about ANIMATION, then being a bad animation will always be better than not even being an animation. This is something I cannot agree with. A worst case: A badly animated flash animation that is horrible to look at > still images of great art? Ok, I can't take you serious for this. Sorry. My points up there with the characters looking badly in the animation can be added to this argument. Great still art > horribly animated version of said art. Viola looks like a caricature of herself in the anime. And characters like Nami and Robin sometimes too. ktg said: Thirdly, your last point is a complete bullshit. What we can actually tell is that AT THIS POINT the cover stories are not adapted, but you don't know if at some point those will be adapted. And talking about color spreads when the whole anime is colored, is just a joke. Why is it that you say it's complete bullshit, when the cover stories haven't been adapted in 26 years? How long should anime watchers wait for it. I'm not a fortune teller, neither are you. For the past 26 years there are none of them, so Anime watchers are missing out on these parts. Not sure why it would be "complete bullshit"... Maybe when One Piece gets remade entirely, we will get them but that's a long way off. Your tone is very annoying and you seem triggered by my post. I didn't even attempt to do something like that, so read my posts with more of a neutral voice. I used to be an anime watcher as well, you know? And you are now making the point of: "color spreads = anime is in color" and call my comment a joke. That's not even my argument. How do you come up with stuff like that? Or are you trolling? Did you even read my post at all? Do you know what I mean with Color Spreads? ktg said: I agree, that's why Luffy beat Doflamingo, because it is slow and weak... Holy shit... Wow, you really don't get it, do you? Can you try for once to understand what I'm meaning to say? Gear 4 was depicted weak and slow. Yes, Luffy won. That's not the point that you are missing again. It felt less convincing than the manga version. There are moments for it. Luffy's first hit with Kong Gun is depicted to hit and then connecting too long and drawn out with Doflamingo, who shielded himself against the attack. This "connected" attack felt way too long and isn't shown like that in the manga. In the manga it shows Luffy hitting him and Doflamingo immediatly flying into the city at high speed, because the knockback was so strong. Even the animated knockback was too slow in regard of that. Then the most exeggerated example was Luffy's King Kong Gun at the end which is drawn out yet again, way too long compared to the manga, where Luffy breaks through Doflamingos final attack at ease, immediately. The anime made it way less convincing. And yes, the manga does it better in this case, because a skilled mangaka guides your eyes through the scenes. Just like how a skilled film director can guide the viewer through visual story telling without using a word. Oda's depictions and eyemovement on how Gear 4 is shown is much stronger and faster compared to the anime's slowly animated version. Do you understand what I'm saying here? Hopefully. But realistically, probably not. You want another example? Luffy first "fight" with Kaido shows him not being able to do anything towards Kaido in terms of damage but the anime depicts a scene where Luffys hits make Kaidos eyes go white as if he is reaching something. That's a wrong adaptation of the manga content because it didn't happen there. It made Kaido appear waker than he is. Luffy gets one hit K'O'd without accomplishing anything in the manga. The anime changed that for the worse. ktg said: Yes, you had free time to make some stupid takes. The only thing that can be criticized is the pacing and that's not even a problem everywhere. And what exactly get in return from the manga? Nothing. The manga is not really faster, you will learn the same amount of information, you won't finish the story significantly faster and you lose the animation, colors and sounds. Thank you for confirming that arguing with you is a waste of time. Sadly (or not), if you want to have higher level of immersion, emotional engagement, anime will always be better and that's a fact. My point was not to make that all anime are worse than manga but One Piece in particular. Your posted abstract is about movies and books and not manga and anime, so it's not a fact. Manga and anime are two different media altogether unrelated to books and movies. You can't apply the same conclusion on it, so your abstract is worthless but interesting nonetheless and even then, there will be and there are cases where the book is better than the movie. Additionally, did you read the abstract yourself? It's about non-fiction cases about HIV/aids patients, so it's a different study than for fictional stories, so it can't be applied towards fictional stories as One Piece or anime in general either. When it comes to manga and anime, One Piece is an unfortunate case where the anime adaptation is worse than the source material, for the reasons I said and you often misinterpreted. Berserk is another example with a fucked up anime adaption (2016-2018), ignoring the decent 97 anime. When I think about it, Gantz is the same as well. Eragon movie has sounds, music, voice acting and everything the film medium can offer to have a more immersive experience compared to a book. And look how impressivly bad it is compared to the source material. Or take The Dark Tower movie compared to the seven books by Stephen King. Fans will crucify you, if you tell them that the movie is better than the books. I will refrain from answering another one of your posts, because you seem to be missing what I' meaning to say and rather want to focus on stuff I never tried to say. think it's called a strawman argument and I don't want to continue on that. Your aggressive tone is unnecessary on top of it. I will not argue further. |
Dec 23, 2023 3:43 AM
#11
Reply to ZackLSD
@Morayne here comes another manga elitist thinking pacing is objective.
Sorry but pacing is based on the viewer's mindset and emotions. It's all subjective.
Me & many others are perfectly fine with Toei One Piece.
This post was 100% pointless.
Also, Dressrosa was perfect despite the constant Rebecca flashbacks.
Sorry but pacing is based on the viewer's mindset and emotions. It's all subjective.
Me & many others are perfectly fine with Toei One Piece.
This post was 100% pointless.
Also, Dressrosa was perfect despite the constant Rebecca flashbacks.
| @HidingHere HidingHere said: Ok? Do you think long running anime having multiple animation directors is something new? One person physically cannot correct every single drawing in every single episode. Anime is by design a collaborative effort. Also the Naoki Tate slander, lmao. If you think that one of the most respected, veteran animators to ever come out of Toei can't animate maybe that's just a YOU problem. @LuFFY-Itachi LuFFY-Itachi said: I have watched the anime and read the manga and I will always tell anyone to watch the anime rather than reading the manga, the pacing wouldn't be a problem if you get used to it, that's how I watched 1000 eps without getting bored.. @GoatPieceLuffy GoatPieceLuffy said: @Morayne here comes another manga elitist thinking pacing is objective. Sorry but pacing is based on the viewer's mindset and emotions. It's all subjective. Me & many others are perfectly fine with Toei One Piece. This post was 100% pointless. Also, Dressrosa was perfect despite the constant Rebecca flashbacks. My decision of switching to the manga was based on my disappointment of the anime's development, so I had my reasons for it. I enjoyed the movies though, especially Strong World and Z, so I'm not particularily against the animated adaptation, just mostly the anime itself. I used to be a fan of it. As for my "slander" of Naoki Tate, I said that he gets actions right, so I didn't just criticize him entirely. It's just the lack of detail and the disjointed proportions that I dislike. I understand that a long running series needs changed animation directors but it's the fluctuating quality I'm criticizing the most, not the choice of the directors. The anime artstyle feels too incohesive. My wish for a seasonal version of One Piece is eternal and I would watch that. As for the pacing I'm not sure I can agree that it's 100% subjective. Dress Rosa made a lot of people switch to the manga because it was unbearable, I noticed it back then, when the manga was running the arc. So anime version of DR can't be "perfect", though the manga version has aged well. One Pace exists for a reason and the goal of the team is to make it closer to Oda's vision of the manga. It's not my decision to tell others what they want to watch or read. The user who thanked me for the highlighted differences, still went on to watch the anime and he's all good to do so, if he wishes to. I still appreciate your responses nonetheless. @Kidzuna Kidzuna said: Thank you for all the time and effort you put into this post and I agree with all of the stuff you've said Thanks. I appreciate both, negative and positive reactions as long as they are not over the top like ktg's who misinterpreted everything I wrote. |
MorayneDec 23, 2023 3:49 AM
Dec 23, 2023 3:49 AM
#12
Reply to Morayne
@HidingHere
@LuFFY-Itachi
@GoatPieceLuffy
My decision of switching to the manga was based on my disappointment of the anime's development, so I had my reasons for it. I enjoyed the movies though, especially Strong World and Z, so I'm not particularily against the animated adaptation, just mostly the anime itself. I used to be a fan of it.
As for my "slander" of Naoki Tate, I said that he gets actions right, so I didn't just criticize him entirely. It's just the lack of detail and the disjointed proportions that I dislike. I understand that a long running series needs changed animation directors but it's the fluctuating quality I'm criticizing the most, not the choice of the directors. The anime artstyle feels too incohesive. My wish for a seasonal version of One Piece is eternal and I would watch that.
As for the pacing I'm not sure I can agree that it's 100% subjective. Dress Rosa made a lot of people switch to the manga because it was unbearable, I noticed it back then, when the manga was running the arc. So anime version of DR can't be "perfect", though the manga version has aged well. One Pace exists for a reason and the goal of the team is to make it closer to Oda's vision of the manga. It's not my decision to tell others what they want to watch or read. The user who thanked me for the highlighted differences, still went on to watch the anime and he's all good to do so, if he wishes to.
I still appreciate your responses nonetheless.
@Kidzuna
Thanks. I appreciate both, negative and positive reactions as long as they are not over the top like ktg's who misinterpreted everything I wrote.
HidingHere said:
Ok? Do you think long running anime having multiple animation directors is something new? One person physically cannot correct every single drawing in every single episode. Anime is by design a collaborative effort.
Also the Naoki Tate slander, lmao. If you think that one of the most respected, veteran animators to ever come out of Toei can't animate maybe that's just a YOU problem.
Ok? Do you think long running anime having multiple animation directors is something new? One person physically cannot correct every single drawing in every single episode. Anime is by design a collaborative effort.
Also the Naoki Tate slander, lmao. If you think that one of the most respected, veteran animators to ever come out of Toei can't animate maybe that's just a YOU problem.
@LuFFY-Itachi
LuFFY-Itachi said:
I have watched the anime and read the manga and I will always tell anyone to watch the anime rather than reading the manga, the pacing wouldn't be a problem if you get used to it, that's how I watched 1000 eps without getting bored..
I have watched the anime and read the manga and I will always tell anyone to watch the anime rather than reading the manga, the pacing wouldn't be a problem if you get used to it, that's how I watched 1000 eps without getting bored..
@GoatPieceLuffy
GoatPieceLuffy said:
@Morayne here comes another manga elitist thinking pacing is objective.
Sorry but pacing is based on the viewer's mindset and emotions. It's all subjective.
Me & many others are perfectly fine with Toei One Piece.
This post was 100% pointless.
Also, Dressrosa was perfect despite the constant Rebecca flashbacks.
@Morayne here comes another manga elitist thinking pacing is objective.
Sorry but pacing is based on the viewer's mindset and emotions. It's all subjective.
Me & many others are perfectly fine with Toei One Piece.
This post was 100% pointless.
Also, Dressrosa was perfect despite the constant Rebecca flashbacks.
My decision of switching to the manga was based on my disappointment of the anime's development, so I had my reasons for it. I enjoyed the movies though, especially Strong World and Z, so I'm not particularily against the animated adaptation, just mostly the anime itself. I used to be a fan of it.
As for my "slander" of Naoki Tate, I said that he gets actions right, so I didn't just criticize him entirely. It's just the lack of detail and the disjointed proportions that I dislike. I understand that a long running series needs changed animation directors but it's the fluctuating quality I'm criticizing the most, not the choice of the directors. The anime artstyle feels too incohesive. My wish for a seasonal version of One Piece is eternal and I would watch that.
As for the pacing I'm not sure I can agree that it's 100% subjective. Dress Rosa made a lot of people switch to the manga because it was unbearable, I noticed it back then, when the manga was running the arc. So anime version of DR can't be "perfect", though the manga version has aged well. One Pace exists for a reason and the goal of the team is to make it closer to Oda's vision of the manga. It's not my decision to tell others what they want to watch or read. The user who thanked me for the highlighted differences, still went on to watch the anime and he's all good to do so, if he wishes to.
I still appreciate your responses nonetheless.
@Kidzuna
Kidzuna said:
Thank you for all the time and effort you put into this post and I agree with all of the stuff you've said
Thank you for all the time and effort you put into this post and I agree with all of the stuff you've said
Thanks. I appreciate both, negative and positive reactions as long as they are not over the top like ktg's who misinterpreted everything I wrote.
| @Morayne One Piece > One Pace (x1000000000000000000000000) One Pace is an incomplete glorified fan edit that ruins Marineford and removes anime canon. To each their own though, but Toei One Piece is god-tier and I'm perfectly fine with the pacing. |
| ๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฅ๐๐๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐จ ๐ฅ๐๐ง๐๐๐๐ฉ๐ก๐ฎ ๐๐๐ฃ๐. - ๐๐๐๐ |
Dec 23, 2023 5:00 AM
#13
Reply to Morayne
@ktg
Firstly, I'm not sure I want to argue with somebody who calls everything I wrote "bullshit" if he hasn't read it at all and admits he was too lazy to do it. This is perhaps my second and last reply to you, because you don't seem to grasp what I'm saying, even on the second reply and rather focus on things I never tried to say.
Secondly, I don't know why you would think that my four points are "random". I specifically chose aspects of both media that are important in experiencing the story itself in the best way possible. So I critciized the anime for: It's adaptation of the source material (how does it differentiate to the manga), in animation quality (how well is it animated compared to the art and content of the manga), pacing (how fast or slow the story moves forward) and differences of the manga (cover stories and color spreads that aren't adapted + a short comment on the music and voice acting). I would say that the voice acting is my most underappreciated factor, there I would agree. I should have put more work into highlighting the good voice acting of the anime, one of its few strengths.
I don't understand the comparison of the weights of the Basketballers, but I understand what you mean of myself ignoring the sounds. Probably has to do with Toei Animation borrowing and recycling sounds from Dragon Ball Z for One Piece, making the sound of One Piece feel less unique, giving it less of an identity and making it a boring experience in return. An aspect that I could have talked more about, similar to voice acting. But just like the music of One Piece, the constant recycling makes it a worse experience than it should be. Undeserving for such a great source material.
This is something I cannot agree with. A worst case: A badly animated flash animation that is horrible to look at > still images of great art? Ok, I can't take you serious for this. Sorry. My points up there with the characters looking badly in the animation can be added to this argument. Great still art > horribly animated version of said art. Viola looks like a caricature of herself in the anime. And characters like Nami and Robin sometimes too.
Why is it that you say it's complete bullshit, when the cover stories haven't been adapted in 26 years? How long should anime watchers wait for it. I'm not a fortune teller, neither are you. For the past 26 years there are none of them, so Anime watchers are missing out on these parts. Not sure why it would be "complete bullshit"... Maybe when One Piece gets remade entirely, we will get them but that's a long way off. Your tone is very annoying and you seem triggered by my post. I didn't even attempt to do something like that, so read my posts with more of a neutral voice. I used to be an anime watcher as well, you know?
And you are now making the point of: "color spreads = anime is in color" and call my comment a joke. That's not even my argument. How do you come up with stuff like that? Or are you trolling? Did you even read my post at all? Do you know what I mean with Color Spreads?
Wow, you really don't get it, do you? Can you try for once to understand what I'm meaning to say? Gear 4 was depicted weak and slow. Yes, Luffy won. That's not the point that you are missing again. It felt less convincing than the manga version. There are moments for it. Luffy's first hit with Kong Gun is depicted to hit and then connecting too long and drawn out with Doflamingo, who shielded himself against the attack. This "connected" attack felt way too long and isn't shown like that in the manga. In the manga it shows Luffy hitting him and Doflamingo immediatly flying into the city at high speed, because the knockback was so strong. Even the animated knockback was too slow in regard of that. Then the most exeggerated example was Luffy's King Kong Gun at the end which is drawn out yet again, way too long compared to the manga, where Luffy breaks through Doflamingos final attack at ease, immediately. The anime made it way less convincing.
And yes, the manga does it better in this case, because a skilled mangaka guides your eyes through the scenes. Just like how a skilled film director can guide the viewer through visual story telling without using a word. Oda's depictions and eyemovement on how Gear 4 is shown is much stronger and faster compared to the anime's slowly animated version. Do you understand what I'm saying here? Hopefully. But realistically, probably not.
You want another example? Luffy first "fight" with Kaido shows him not being able to do anything towards Kaido in terms of damage but the anime depicts a scene where Luffys hits make Kaidos eyes go white as if he is reaching something. That's a wrong adaptation of the manga content because it didn't happen there. It made Kaido appear waker than he is. Luffy gets one hit K'O'd without accomplishing anything in the manga. The anime changed that for the worse.
Thank you for confirming that arguing with you is a waste of time.
My point was not to make that all anime are worse than manga but One Piece in particular.
Your posted abstract is about movies and books and not manga and anime, so it's not a fact. Manga and anime are two different media altogether unrelated to books and movies. You can't apply the same conclusion on it, so your abstract is worthless but interesting nonetheless and even then, there will be and there are cases where the book is better than the movie. Additionally, did you read the abstract yourself? It's about non-fiction cases about HIV/aids patients, so it's a different study than for fictional stories, so it can't be applied towards fictional stories as One Piece or anime in general either.
When it comes to manga and anime, One Piece is an unfortunate case where the anime adaptation is worse than the source material, for the reasons I said and you often misinterpreted. Berserk is another example with a fucked up anime adaption (2016-2018), ignoring the decent 97 anime. When I think about it, Gantz is the same as well.
Eragon movie has sounds, music, voice acting and everything the film medium can offer to have a more immersive experience compared to a book. And look how impressivly bad it is compared to the source material. Or take The Dark Tower movie compared to the seven books by Stephen King. Fans will crucify you, if you tell them that the movie is better than the books.
I will refrain from answering another one of your posts, because you seem to be missing what I' meaning to say and rather want to focus on stuff I never tried to say. think it's called a strawman argument and I don't want to continue on that. Your aggressive tone is unnecessary on top of it. I will not argue further.
ktg said:
Yes, I was lazy to react all of that bullshit, but it still does not make it true.
Yes, I was lazy to react all of that bullshit, but it still does not make it true.
Firstly, I'm not sure I want to argue with somebody who calls everything I wrote "bullshit" if he hasn't read it at all and admits he was too lazy to do it. This is perhaps my second and last reply to you, because you don't seem to grasp what I'm saying, even on the second reply and rather focus on things I never tried to say.
Secondly, I don't know why you would think that my four points are "random". I specifically chose aspects of both media that are important in experiencing the story itself in the best way possible. So I critciized the anime for: It's adaptation of the source material (how does it differentiate to the manga), in animation quality (how well is it animated compared to the art and content of the manga), pacing (how fast or slow the story moves forward) and differences of the manga (cover stories and color spreads that aren't adapted + a short comment on the music and voice acting). I would say that the voice acting is my most underappreciated factor, there I would agree. I should have put more work into highlighting the good voice acting of the anime, one of its few strengths.
Just for one example, we need to talk about sounds, because that a huge advantage towards animation. To understand it, imagine comparing basketball players based on only their weight. It's an idiotic idea.
I don't understand the comparison of the weights of the Basketballers, but I understand what you mean of myself ignoring the sounds. Probably has to do with Toei Animation borrowing and recycling sounds from Dragon Ball Z for One Piece, making the sound of One Piece feel less unique, giving it less of an identity and making it a boring experience in return. An aspect that I could have talked more about, similar to voice acting. But just like the music of One Piece, the constant recycling makes it a worse experience than it should be. Undeserving for such a great source material.
ktg said:
Secondly, yes, when we are talking about ANIMATION, then being a bad animation will always be better than not even being an animation.
Secondly, yes, when we are talking about ANIMATION, then being a bad animation will always be better than not even being an animation.
This is something I cannot agree with. A worst case: A badly animated flash animation that is horrible to look at > still images of great art? Ok, I can't take you serious for this. Sorry. My points up there with the characters looking badly in the animation can be added to this argument. Great still art > horribly animated version of said art. Viola looks like a caricature of herself in the anime. And characters like Nami and Robin sometimes too.
ktg said:
Thirdly, your last point is a complete bullshit. What we can actually tell is that AT THIS POINT the cover stories are not adapted, but you don't know if at some point those will be adapted. And talking about color spreads when the whole anime is colored, is just a joke.
Thirdly, your last point is a complete bullshit. What we can actually tell is that AT THIS POINT the cover stories are not adapted, but you don't know if at some point those will be adapted. And talking about color spreads when the whole anime is colored, is just a joke.
Why is it that you say it's complete bullshit, when the cover stories haven't been adapted in 26 years? How long should anime watchers wait for it. I'm not a fortune teller, neither are you. For the past 26 years there are none of them, so Anime watchers are missing out on these parts. Not sure why it would be "complete bullshit"... Maybe when One Piece gets remade entirely, we will get them but that's a long way off. Your tone is very annoying and you seem triggered by my post. I didn't even attempt to do something like that, so read my posts with more of a neutral voice. I used to be an anime watcher as well, you know?
And you are now making the point of: "color spreads = anime is in color" and call my comment a joke. That's not even my argument. How do you come up with stuff like that? Or are you trolling? Did you even read my post at all? Do you know what I mean with Color Spreads?
ktg said:
I agree, that's why Luffy beat Doflamingo, because it is slow and weak... Holy shit...
I agree, that's why Luffy beat Doflamingo, because it is slow and weak... Holy shit...
Wow, you really don't get it, do you? Can you try for once to understand what I'm meaning to say? Gear 4 was depicted weak and slow. Yes, Luffy won. That's not the point that you are missing again. It felt less convincing than the manga version. There are moments for it. Luffy's first hit with Kong Gun is depicted to hit and then connecting too long and drawn out with Doflamingo, who shielded himself against the attack. This "connected" attack felt way too long and isn't shown like that in the manga. In the manga it shows Luffy hitting him and Doflamingo immediatly flying into the city at high speed, because the knockback was so strong. Even the animated knockback was too slow in regard of that. Then the most exeggerated example was Luffy's King Kong Gun at the end which is drawn out yet again, way too long compared to the manga, where Luffy breaks through Doflamingos final attack at ease, immediately. The anime made it way less convincing.
And yes, the manga does it better in this case, because a skilled mangaka guides your eyes through the scenes. Just like how a skilled film director can guide the viewer through visual story telling without using a word. Oda's depictions and eyemovement on how Gear 4 is shown is much stronger and faster compared to the anime's slowly animated version. Do you understand what I'm saying here? Hopefully. But realistically, probably not.
You want another example? Luffy first "fight" with Kaido shows him not being able to do anything towards Kaido in terms of damage but the anime depicts a scene where Luffys hits make Kaidos eyes go white as if he is reaching something. That's a wrong adaptation of the manga content because it didn't happen there. It made Kaido appear waker than he is. Luffy gets one hit K'O'd without accomplishing anything in the manga. The anime changed that for the worse.
ktg said:
Yes, you had free time to make some stupid takes.
The only thing that can be criticized is the pacing and that's not even a problem everywhere. And what exactly get in return from the manga? Nothing. The manga is not really faster, you will learn the same amount of information, you won't finish the story significantly faster and you lose the animation, colors and sounds.
Yes, you had free time to make some stupid takes.
The only thing that can be criticized is the pacing and that's not even a problem everywhere. And what exactly get in return from the manga? Nothing. The manga is not really faster, you will learn the same amount of information, you won't finish the story significantly faster and you lose the animation, colors and sounds.
Thank you for confirming that arguing with you is a waste of time.
Sadly (or not), if you want to have higher level of immersion, emotional engagement, anime will always be better and that's a fact.
My point was not to make that all anime are worse than manga but One Piece in particular.
Your posted abstract is about movies and books and not manga and anime, so it's not a fact. Manga and anime are two different media altogether unrelated to books and movies. You can't apply the same conclusion on it, so your abstract is worthless but interesting nonetheless and even then, there will be and there are cases where the book is better than the movie. Additionally, did you read the abstract yourself? It's about non-fiction cases about HIV/aids patients, so it's a different study than for fictional stories, so it can't be applied towards fictional stories as One Piece or anime in general either.
When it comes to manga and anime, One Piece is an unfortunate case where the anime adaptation is worse than the source material, for the reasons I said and you often misinterpreted. Berserk is another example with a fucked up anime adaption (2016-2018), ignoring the decent 97 anime. When I think about it, Gantz is the same as well.
Eragon movie has sounds, music, voice acting and everything the film medium can offer to have a more immersive experience compared to a book. And look how impressivly bad it is compared to the source material. Or take The Dark Tower movie compared to the seven books by Stephen King. Fans will crucify you, if you tell them that the movie is better than the books.
I will refrain from answering another one of your posts, because you seem to be missing what I' meaning to say and rather want to focus on stuff I never tried to say. think it's called a strawman argument and I don't want to continue on that. Your aggressive tone is unnecessary on top of it. I will not argue further.
| @Morayne Morayne said: Firstly, I'm not sure I want to argue with somebody who calls everything I wrote "bullshit" if he hasn't read it at all and admits he was too lazy to do it. Firstly, I'm not sure I want to argue with somebody who can't read properly. I did not say that I haven't read. I said I'm too lazy to REACT to all of that bullshit. Turn the internet off if you can't read. Morayne said: you don't seem to grasp what I'm saying, even on the second reply and rather focus on things I never tried to say. It is simply, because I have no idea what you wanted to say. Maybe you wanted to say that you think that giraffes are elephants. I don't know. I was talking about what you ACTUALLY WROTE. The words have meaning, so your post has its own meaning, I reacted to that meaning. If you find my answer "irrelevant" to what you wanted to say, then you probably didn't write what you wanted to say. Morayne said: Secondly, I don't know why you would think that my four points are "random". I specifically chose aspects of both media that are important in experiencing the story itself in the best way possible. So I critciized the anime for: It's adaptation of the source material (how does it differentiate to the manga), in animation quality (how well is it animated compared to the art and content of the manga), pacing (how fast or slow the story moves forward) and differences of the manga (cover stories and color spreads that aren't adapted + a short comment on the music and voice acting). Because even with that reasoning, these aren't the "best" aspects to compare and even with your own definitions, these are questionable, because, for example, your first point "how does it differentiate to the manga" which is also true for pacing (and fillers). So again, you did this randomly. Morayne said: I don't understand the comparison of the weights of the Basketballers, but I understand what you mean of myself ignoring the sounds. Probably has to do with Toei Animation borrowing and recycling sounds from Dragon Ball Z for One Piece, making the sound of One Piece feel less unique, giving it less of an identity and making it a boring experience in return. It's called analogy, but it's okay, I don't expect you to understand that word, especially after you thought reacting means reading. When we are talking about sounds it's mostly about music and that's unique. Comparing sound effects is also a bad take, because if you have a "good" breaking sound, for example, you would obviously reuse it. Morayne said: This is something I cannot agree with. A worst case: A badly animated flash animation that is horrible to look at > still images of great art? Ok, I can't take you serious for this. Sorry. My points up there with the characters looking badly in the animation can be added to this argument. Great still art > horribly animated version of said art. Viola looks like a caricature of herself in the anime. And characters like Nami and Robin sometimes too. You are arguing with a fact. To make it clear for you, let's use a scale. An animation can be 1 if it's really bad or 10 if it's really good. If that specific medium does not have animation, then it is 0. Even if the anime's animation is 1 as the worst possible animation, the manga's 0 is still less. Or you think 0 is bigger than 1? Even great art is still not animation. It still fails as an animation. It's like you are trying to find who is the best man on the planet and trying to rate women on that scale. Morayne said: Why is it that you say it's complete bullshit, when the cover stories haven't been adapted in 26 years? How long should anime watchers wait for it. I'm not a fortune teller, neither are you. For the past 26 years there are none of them, so Anime watchers are missing out on these parts. And you are missing out on the filler parts because those weren't adapted into the manga. See, this is why it's bullshit. You were talking about extra content and there's extra in the anime. You, again, randomly decided which story you treat as good and which one as bad. And before you start talking about what Oda did. The LA's story also went through Oda, but it's still not canon. Morayne said: Wow, you really don't get it, do you? Can you try for once to understand what I'm meaning to say? Gear 4 was depicted weak and slow. Yes, Luffy won. Because that's your own subjective interpretation, while it is not true. Or would you accept as an indestructible argument if I say that Luffy in the manga was depicted as weak all in all, while in the anime he is strong? Morayne said: And yes, the manga does it better in this case, because a skilled mangaka guides your eyes through the scenes. Sadly no, because there's no "speed" in manga. Morayne said: That's a wrong adaptation of the manga content because it didn't happen there. It made Kaido appear waker than he is. Luffy gets one hit K'O'd without accomplishing anything in the manga. The anime changed that for the worse. Let's say you are right. Explain to me what Luffy accomplished. Even a 5 years old can push an adult and an adult might fell too, but there's no real accomplishment and an adult could one hit a kid. What you are complaining about is a relatively well executed build up. Morayne said: Thank you for confirming that arguing with you is a waste of time. We knew that from the start. You can't accept simply facts. Morayne said: My point was not to make that all anime are worse than manga but One Piece in particular. And I was never talked about this either. Morayne said: Your posted abstract is about movies and books and not manga and anime, so it's not a fact. Manga and anime are two different media altogether unrelated to books and movies. You can't apply the same conclusion on it You can, because it's about the affection. The same way books and newspaper are also 2 different medium, but if one of them can help you read better, then the other can be also helpful, because in that aspect, those helps in the same way. And btw, no, it's not just books. There's a reason why kids most likely get addicted to videos (youtube, series, movies) than books, because it is more immersive and engaging. So it is true for anime and manga. Anime is better in that aspect. Morayne said: When it comes to manga and anime, One Piece is an unfortunate case where the anime adaptation is worse than the source material, for the reasons I said and you often misinterpreted. Sorry, no, the reason you said is just proving that you don't know certain facts. Only I named aspects that can negatively affect the anime. Morayne said: if you tell them that the movie is better than the books. Like I said earlier, if you can't read, then turn the internet off. My argument has nothing to with what being the better, the anime or manga. I only talked about your awful takes. Morayne said: I will refrain from answering another one of your posts, because you seem to be missing what I' meaning to say and rather want to focus on stuff I never tried to say. Then I have to apologize. Sorry for talking about the things you mentioned in the post. Then try again and write down what you meant to say, because you failed to do it first time. Morayne said: think it's called a strawman argument and I don't want to continue on that That's actually what you are doing in this paragraph: Morayne said: Eragon movie has sound... You started talking about something that has nothing to do with my take, because you failed to understand my point. |
Dec 23, 2023 5:41 AM
#14
| You have to cut the anime some slack. It's a show from 1999 and the recent Wano arc has been amazing in terms of animation and art. Now some reasons why I (and potentially other people) chose to watch the anime instead of reading the manga. - Music. Lots of openings are great and the OST songs are mostly pretty fire and after a while become nostalgic to listen to. - Voice acting. I prefer my fictional characters to have voices so I can get a better grasp of their complete personality. And it makes some emotional moments more impactful. - Manga prices. The One Piece manga is pretty expensive, even when you buy the box sets. The anime is a lot more accessible. For me personally I got used to the bad pacing. The way I deal with it now is by switching between 1x speed and 1.25x speed or I occasionally use the 5-second skip in the episodes. |
Dec 23, 2023 6:29 AM
#15
| Manga is cool and all but honestly anime is how I got into One piece and you gotta remember that the anime has been going for almost 25 years now so it's also deserving of respect. The anime no doubt has it's ups and downs but I think without the anime, One piece would not be what it is now. Although Manga has better pacing, there's something so good about watching moving pictures y'know. The best experience is to read manga first and then watch anime So you know the best of both worlds. |
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Dec 23, 2023 7:32 AM
#16
| Having consumed both of them,neither is far superior than the other. The pacing could be better but atleast it's far better than getting some random fillers during a freaking war arc. |
Dec 23, 2023 8:02 AM
#17
| What do you think luffy's dream is after becoming the king of the pirates? (ep-1088) |
Dec 23, 2023 8:55 AM
#18
| Sorry but the anime is much more enjoyable than the manga, the only drawback is the pacing And what do you mean that it will never be seasonal? Wit Studio is making a seasonal remake |
Dec 23, 2023 10:43 AM
#19
| I feel like the quality slowly improving is what makes it really a fun journey. I miss the old animation quality at the very beginning honestly. I also plan to get caught up on the manga but something you always miss out on in the manga is of course: Colors, Sound effects, Character voices, Music (love to Overtaken ๐) Either way, I do bet the pacing is better but both are legendary :D |
Dec 23, 2023 12:21 PM
#20
Reply to Kampos
Sorry but the anime is much more enjoyable than the manga, the only drawback is the pacing
And what do you mean that it will never be seasonal? Wit Studio is making a seasonal remake
And what do you mean that it will never be seasonal? Wit Studio is making a seasonal remake
| @Kampos The OP is obviously talking about the main anime that is still ongoing, not the planned remake that we barely have info on. OT: I think that the manga is better, but I'm just gonna say that censorship has never been a big problem for me with regards to the One Piece anime. Yes it sometimes changes things so that they're less graphic than in the manga, but most of the time it's minor stuff that I can't be bothered to get mad about. I'm more annoyed by Toei's insistence on adding DBZ effects that didn't exist in the manga in recent fights in the anime more than anything else lol. |
Dec 23, 2023 12:36 PM
#21
Reply to LuFFY-Itachi
I have watched the anime and read the manga and I will always tell anyone to watch the anime rather than reading the manga, the pacing wouldn't be a problem if you get used to it, that's how I watched 1000 eps without getting bored..
| @LuFFY-Itachi If you had enough free time to watch 1,000+ episodes - at least 3/4 of which have bad pacing - that's fine. But to then suggest that other people should put that much of their free time into doing the same feels irresponsible to me. If someone really wanted to get into One Piece, it would make more sense to suggest the easiest way to go about doing that, which would be reading the manga since it takes significantly less time to read 107 volumes as opposed to watching 1,088 episodes. Most people don't have 430+ hours to spare just to watch every single episode of One Piece. You're doing people a disservice by recommending that they give up so much of their time to watch one anime series. |
Dec 23, 2023 1:19 PM
#22
Reply to Wematanye
@LuFFY-Itachi If you had enough free time to watch 1,000+ episodes - at least 3/4 of which have bad pacing - that's fine. But to then suggest that other people should put that much of their free time into doing the same feels irresponsible to me.
If someone really wanted to get into One Piece, it would make more sense to suggest the easiest way to go about doing that, which would be reading the manga since it takes significantly less time to read 107 volumes as opposed to watching 1,088 episodes. Most people don't have 430+ hours to spare just to watch every single episode of One Piece.
You're doing people a disservice by recommending that they give up so much of their time to watch one anime series.
If someone really wanted to get into One Piece, it would make more sense to suggest the easiest way to go about doing that, which would be reading the manga since it takes significantly less time to read 107 volumes as opposed to watching 1,088 episodes. Most people don't have 430+ hours to spare just to watch every single episode of One Piece.
You're doing people a disservice by recommending that they give up so much of their time to watch one anime series.
| @Early_Morning nah, it's not a disservice to recommend the anime. Patience is a virtue. One thing that you sadly don't have. & pacing is subjective. Also, you always recommend One Pace which is a inferior trash version of One Piece. Sorry, not sorry. |
| ๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฅ๐๐๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐จ ๐ฅ๐๐ง๐๐๐๐ฉ๐ก๐ฎ ๐๐๐ฃ๐. - ๐๐๐๐ |
Dec 23, 2023 4:09 PM
#23
| Bro really wrote the whole Bible about the funny cartoon pirate anime. I ain’t reading all dat. |
Dec 23, 2023 9:24 PM
#24
Early_Morning said: @LuFFY-Itachi If you had enough free time to watch 1,000+ episodes - at least 3/4 of which have bad pacing - that's fine. But to then suggest that other people should put that much of their free time into doing the same feels irresponsible to me. If someone really wanted to get into One Piece, it would make more sense to suggest the easiest way to go about doing that, which would be reading the manga since it takes significantly less time to read 107 volumes as opposed to watching 1,088 episodes. Most people don't have 430+ hours to spare just to watch every single episode of One Piece. You're doing people a disservice by recommending that they give up so much of their time to watch one anime series. what's wrong with watching the anime, the manga does not have the proper vibe and most people prefer the anime adaptation over the manga, i recommended my friend to watch One Piece and he's at Marineford currently and he didn't complain about the pacing or he's feeling bored. listen we one piece fans do not want to complete a shit because it takes less time reading the manga, we just want everyone to have the experience |
Dec 24, 2023 2:23 AM
#25
Morayne said: I did this breakdown for another user but I feel like it's worth for its own post, so here you go, a comparison between the manga and anime in favor of the manga. I used to watch the anime back until 2009 and then switched to the manga because it became unbearable and occasionally checking out the anime in the following years. 1. The manga is uncensored. It's the story where everything is canon, positive and negative. No fillers, other than some arcs going a bit too long later on. Scenes have more blood, violence depiction is higher, you will see scenes in their actual uncensored form and not toned down / censored for the anime This means for the anime:
The following image is a side by side comparison manga vs anime. It's mostly spoilerfree but there are a few pictures that show scenes from the later series. But I think new readers won't realize what is happening or why as context is missing. I did leave out extreme examples. https://i.ibb.co/WGn8tNh/censorship-onepiece.jpg Not beautiful but it does the trick. You want more? https://opwiki.org/wiki/Zensuren_im_Anime Here, it's in German though but the images speak for themselves. There are many scenes that were changed from the manga to anime. The manga has a slight edge with this over the anime's depicted content. Since the anime censors so many scenes, often gruesome or serious scenes feel out of place, because previous content was toned down for viewership. This doesn't happen in the manga, where violence is depicted more often. 2. The pacing Yes, the pacing is much better (what most people mean with "faster") for the story. The anime in the very beginning only adapted 2 chapters for each episode which can be considered snail pace for nowadays standards. Nowadays Toei Animation only adapts 0,4/0,5/0,6 chapters per episode. See, what's wrong with that? Out of the 20 minutes in an episode, you will get 3 minutes of actual story progression per episode. So the rest is filled with: repetitive reaction shots, endless running scenes, filler scenes, increased onscreen time for specific characters and in general with stuff that never happened in the manga. One Piece manga currently has 1100 chapters but One Piece anime has 1090 episodes. You get that? This just feels so wrong. One Piece s a relic of an old-fashioned release model of trying to hook people with weekly episodes to have their interest maintained. However, this is outdated because it released in the late 90s and there was less competition back then. Due to a triangle relationship of the IP between Shueisha, Toei Animation and Fuji TV we will never get a seasonal anime until One Piece ends. One Piece used to do a lot of filler episodes and kinda stopped at one point doing them altogether but Toei sneakily started adding the aforementioned fillers into the canon episodes in return. So good thing: Less filler episodes. Bad thing: They are now found in the actual episodes. Worst thing: Less new story content and everything is stretched even further than Luffy could ever do. Nowadays, there is so much competition that you can't release another series like this. Which is why today's manga to anime adaptations become seasonal. Less episodes, more content, better animation. Sadly, OP won't get this treatment because Fuji TV is against doing this. They like their sunday numbers. Toei Animation's treatment for One Piece is the reason Shueisha and Weekly Shonen Jump are more careful nowdays to who they sell their licenses. If One Piece was seasonal from the start and adapting 3-4 chapters per episode, like so many other anime do, the anime wouldn't even have more than 375 Episodes. Yes, 700 episodes scratched off the list, just like that. One Pace, a fanproject that cuts down the anime episodes (sometimes 3-5 episodes into a single one) tries to fix the pacing by removing all the filler but you still end up with 600 episodes in the long run. Their editing is limited. They aren't magicians after all, since it's a structural problem of the anime. If you want an example of how bad it can get: Toei Animation adapted Dress Rosa (an arguably good arc, in retrospective in the manga) from 100 manga chapters into 117 anime episodes. You can read a manga chapter in under 10 minutes, an anime episode goes for 20 minutes. And yet they adapted more episodes than manga chapters. DR made a lot of people jump into the manga. If it was seasonal, the arc would have been done in 25 episodes max. So we had 1000 manga minutes and 2340 anime minutes. That's just mind boggling and is objectively horrible. Wano Kuni goes for 191 episodes (including a few filler episodes) with just 150 chapters as the base... 3. Horrendous animation quality Oda has a distinct artstyle that others would consider "ugly" but that's often coming from the fact that they are exposed to the anime rather than the manga because Toei has used over 50 different animation directors for the series. Over 50 different people with 50 different artstyles when translating the manga artstyle to anime, which often leads to very strange body proportions (even stranger than the manga) and ugly faces. For me, Oda has one of the most beautiful artstyles, but you have to accept its goofyness, its childish charm in return. It never turns into Bleach but Oda envokes great imagery with his environments and exegerrated faces. I'm a big fan how he draws the cryfaces of characters as they feel genuine. Now take a look at some animation directors for the series: Yuji Kondou: https://opwiki.org/images/Yuji_Kondou.jpg Kenji Yokoyama: https://opwiki.org/images/Kenji_Yokoyama.jpg Shigefumi Shingaki: https://opwiki.org/images/Shigefumi_Shingaki.jpg Kazuo Takigawa: https://opwiki.org/images/Kazuo_Takigawa.jpg Masahiro Shimanuki: https://opwiki.org/images/Masahiro_Shimanuki.jpg Now, none of these are horribly bad, however, they all differ in quality and style. Now compare all of them with their current Animation director for all the movies of One Piece starting with Movie 10: Masayuki Sato: https://opwiki.org/images/Masayuki_Sato.jpg Or take Keiichi Ichikawa who worked on Episode 927, 1000, Heart of Gold Special: https://opwiki.org/images/Keiichi_Ichikawa.jpg This is how the series could always look like, if it was seasonal. See the difference? The characters have great proportions and depth, they don't look flat, they don't look wrong. Here is one of the worst offenders of the anime: Naoki Tate: https://opwiki.org/images/Naoki_Tate.jpg He got action scenes fluently and right but fucks up the faces and proportions in return. None of these issues exist in the manga. Oda's artstyle gets a bit messier later down the road but he nails his proportions and faces. The anime counterparts often look like caricatures. Here is a spoilerfree image of a character that appears later in the story: Anime left, manga right: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F6m5a29vi8sj71.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D3ce1cbc3277fbfe4717eb51636053663e3766777 Here another one: https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-981231b06c9e97501fac622ba57e01e0 See the proportions? Look at the head and the breast size. This happens all the time. Toei ups the fanservice too much. There is fanservice in the manga but the anime overdoes it. Add the horrible animation and you got Frankenstein: The Anime. Due to so many different animation directors, the anime of One Piece fluctuates in animation and artstyle quality because so many people are involved from episode to episode. This doesn't just end here, they also fuck up pivotal moments from the manga. I would like to go deeper into this, but it would be a big spoiler of the abilities of characters which were depicted much weaker and much slower than they should have. Additionally, pivotal arcs that were extremely well done in the manga, like Marine Ford arc, are horribily animated in the anime as well. It's just so disappointing. As for the manga, you can read at your own pace. You can rest on pages you find beautiful and even look for easter eggs or background details. Oda's artstyle later evolves, it's very simplistic early on and only starts to truly open up (like the world building) when they are on the Grand Line. 4. Cover Stories and Color Spreads The manga has additonally two big advantages over the anime. There is a thing called "Cover Stories" where Oda tells stories involving side characters during the chapter-pages. These are all canon. You don't see them in the anime. One-image stories that often go for like 10-15 chapters in a row. It's cool world building, outside of the chapters content and you get to see characters that haven't appeared in a while and simply see what they are doing while the Strawhats experience their adventures. And another great thing about the manga are color spreads. Beautiful double spreads that are basically Oda's "Fanart". He often draws the strawhats in fantastical environments or celebrating specific holidays, or other strange combinations. They are beautiful to look at. Here are some spoilerfree ones: https://shorturl.at/etABJ https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F3bt5nr30kwr61.jpg https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fqmtqarruiwr61.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fc/5c/ce/fc5ccea36e414637ad07e963c7fb5a43.jpg https://zoronamiplus.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/6/7/37674207/9529187_orig.png None of them are canon. These are taken from East Blue Saga. There are many more and much more beautiful ones, but I don't want to show you characters that appear later in the story. Trust me, some CS are breathtaking. You simply get the sense that Oda loves drawing the series. One comment I saw while searching these: "It feels like going through a family album". The only times these are translated into the anime are very short moments during openings. There. 4 good reasons why you should read the manga over the anime. The only things I can think about the anime doing better is voice acting and music but that's only thanks to the medium. And as for the music, you can listen to it while reading. Imo, Toei fucked up that aspect as well because they reuse the same music over many pivotal moments, making scenes feel weak because they didn't compose NEW music for those. So the songs you get to hear in the anime's first 50 episodes will be reused even 400-800 episodes later. They are kings of recycling. This isn't meant to trash any opinions on the anime, but rather offering advice for new readers/fans. If somebody still wants to give the anime a go, then go for it. But One Piece is the most popular and successful manga and not anime. For multiple reasons. I'm longing for the day when One Piece gets the anime treatment it deserves, on one level with Attack on Titan for example. Thanks for reading. The irony in the final thing you said is that one piece is getting an anime remake already, animation by WIT Studios, the same studio that brought us Attack on Titan. Nobody knows what approach they’re taking, but it will tackle all the concerns you have about the pacing, the art style will probably be more consistent since it will be a Netflix show, so it will be seasonal (but most likely released in patches), and possibly the anime may not be as toned down as toei’s version. Not many details have been revealed, but go look into “The One Piece” if you want to know more. Personally though, I think the pacing was fine until Dressrosa, I can see how the pacing has plummeted now. Before the majority of the pacing issues was just the recaps, and opening monologues. In Dressrosa we still have the long recaps, and opening monologues, but there’s not a lot happening each episode. Somehow there’s less happening each episode now when we don’t even have ending songs, compared to when we did. |
Dec 24, 2023 5:58 AM
#26
Reply to EP1C_G4YM3R
Morayne said:
I did this breakdown for another user but I feel like it's worth for its own post, so here you go, a comparison between the manga and anime in favor of the manga. I used to watch the anime back until 2009 and then switched to the manga because it became unbearable and occasionally checking out the anime in the following years.
1. The manga is uncensored.
It's the story where everything is canon, positive and negative. No fillers, other than some arcs going a bit too long later on. Scenes have more blood, violence depiction is higher, you will see scenes in their actual uncensored form and not toned down / censored for the anime
This means for the anime:
The following image is a side by side comparison manga vs anime. It's mostly spoilerfree but there are a few pictures that show scenes from the later series. But I think new readers won't realize what is happening or why as context is missing. I did leave out extreme examples.
https://i.ibb.co/WGn8tNh/censorship-onepiece.jpg
Not beautiful but it does the trick. You want more? https://opwiki.org/wiki/Zensuren_im_Anime Here, it's in German though but the images speak for themselves. There are many scenes that were changed from the manga to anime.
The manga has a slight edge with this over the anime's depicted content. Since the anime censors so many scenes, often gruesome or serious scenes feel out of place, because previous content was toned down for viewership. This doesn't happen in the manga, where violence is depicted more often.
2. The pacing
Yes, the pacing is much better (what most people mean with "faster") for the story. The anime in the very beginning only adapted 2 chapters for each episode which can be considered snail pace for nowadays standards. Nowadays Toei Animation only adapts 0,4/0,5/0,6 chapters per episode. See, what's wrong with that? Out of the 20 minutes in an episode, you will get 3 minutes of actual story progression per episode. So the rest is filled with: repetitive reaction shots, endless running scenes, filler scenes, increased onscreen time for specific characters and in general with stuff that never happened in the manga. One Piece manga currently has 1100 chapters but One Piece anime has 1090 episodes. You get that? This just feels so wrong. One Piece s a relic of an old-fashioned release model of trying to hook people with weekly episodes to have their interest maintained. However, this is outdated because it released in the late 90s and there was less competition back then. Due to a triangle relationship of the IP between Shueisha, Toei Animation and Fuji TV we will never get a seasonal anime until One Piece ends.
One Piece used to do a lot of filler episodes and kinda stopped at one point doing them altogether but Toei sneakily started adding the aforementioned fillers into the canon episodes in return. So good thing: Less filler episodes. Bad thing: They are now found in the actual episodes. Worst thing: Less new story content and everything is stretched even further than Luffy could ever do.
Nowadays, there is so much competition that you can't release another series like this. Which is why today's manga to anime adaptations become seasonal. Less episodes, more content, better animation. Sadly, OP won't get this treatment because Fuji TV is against doing this. They like their sunday numbers. Toei Animation's treatment for One Piece is the reason Shueisha and Weekly Shonen Jump are more careful nowdays to who they sell their licenses.
If One Piece was seasonal from the start and adapting 3-4 chapters per episode, like so many other anime do, the anime wouldn't even have more than 375 Episodes. Yes, 700 episodes scratched off the list, just like that. One Pace, a fanproject that cuts down the anime episodes (sometimes 3-5 episodes into a single one) tries to fix the pacing by removing all the filler but you still end up with 600 episodes in the long run. Their editing is limited. They aren't magicians after all, since it's a structural problem of the anime.
If you want an example of how bad it can get: Toei Animation adapted Dress Rosa (an arguably good arc, in retrospective in the manga) from 100 manga chapters into 117 anime episodes. You can read a manga chapter in under 10 minutes, an anime episode goes for 20 minutes. And yet they adapted more episodes than manga chapters. DR made a lot of people jump into the manga. If it was seasonal, the arc would have been done in 25 episodes max. So we had 1000 manga minutes and 2340 anime minutes. That's just mind boggling and is objectively horrible. Wano Kuni goes for 191 episodes (including a few filler episodes) with just 150 chapters as the base...
3. Horrendous animation quality
Oda has a distinct artstyle that others would consider "ugly" but that's often coming from the fact that they are exposed to the anime rather than the manga because Toei has used over 50 different animation directors for the series. Over 50 different people with 50 different artstyles when translating the manga artstyle to anime, which often leads to very strange body proportions (even stranger than the manga) and ugly faces.
For me, Oda has one of the most beautiful artstyles, but you have to accept its goofyness, its childish charm in return. It never turns into Bleach but Oda envokes great imagery with his environments and exegerrated faces. I'm a big fan how he draws the cryfaces of characters as they feel genuine.
Now take a look at some animation directors for the series:
Yuji Kondou: https://opwiki.org/images/Yuji_Kondou.jpg
Kenji Yokoyama: https://opwiki.org/images/Kenji_Yokoyama.jpg
Shigefumi Shingaki: https://opwiki.org/images/Shigefumi_Shingaki.jpg
Kazuo Takigawa: https://opwiki.org/images/Kazuo_Takigawa.jpg
Masahiro Shimanuki: https://opwiki.org/images/Masahiro_Shimanuki.jpg
Now, none of these are horribly bad, however, they all differ in quality and style.
Now compare all of them with their current Animation director for all the movies of One Piece starting with Movie 10:
Masayuki Sato: https://opwiki.org/images/Masayuki_Sato.jpg
Or take Keiichi Ichikawa who worked on Episode 927, 1000, Heart of Gold Special: https://opwiki.org/images/Keiichi_Ichikawa.jpg
This is how the series could always look like, if it was seasonal. See the difference? The characters have great proportions and depth, they don't look flat, they don't look wrong.
Here is one of the worst offenders of the anime:
Naoki Tate: https://opwiki.org/images/Naoki_Tate.jpg
He got action scenes fluently and right but fucks up the faces and proportions in return.
None of these issues exist in the manga. Oda's artstyle gets a bit messier later down the road but he nails his proportions and faces. The anime counterparts often look like caricatures.
Here is a spoilerfree image of a character that appears later in the story:
Anime left, manga right: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F6m5a29vi8sj71.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D3ce1cbc3277fbfe4717eb51636053663e3766777
Here another one: https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-981231b06c9e97501fac622ba57e01e0
See the proportions? Look at the head and the breast size. This happens all the time. Toei ups the fanservice too much. There is fanservice in the manga but the anime overdoes it. Add the horrible animation and you got Frankenstein: The Anime. Due to so many different animation directors, the anime of One Piece fluctuates in animation and artstyle quality because so many people are involved from episode to episode. This doesn't just end here, they also fuck up pivotal moments from the manga. I would like to go deeper into this, but it would be a big spoiler of the abilities of characters which were depicted much weaker and much slower than they should have. Additionally, pivotal arcs that were extremely well done in the manga, like Marine Ford arc, are horribily animated in the anime as well. It's just so disappointing.
As for the manga, you can read at your own pace. You can rest on pages you find beautiful and even look for easter eggs or background details. Oda's artstyle later evolves, it's very simplistic early on and only starts to truly open up (like the world building) when they are on the Grand Line.
4. Cover Stories and Color Spreads
The manga has additonally two big advantages over the anime. There is a thing called "Cover Stories" where Oda tells stories involving side characters during the chapter-pages. These are all canon. You don't see them in the anime. One-image stories that often go for like 10-15 chapters in a row. It's cool world building, outside of the chapters content and you get to see characters that haven't appeared in a while and simply see what they are doing while the Strawhats experience their adventures.
And another great thing about the manga are color spreads. Beautiful double spreads that are basically Oda's "Fanart". He often draws the strawhats in fantastical environments or celebrating specific holidays, or other strange combinations. They are beautiful to look at.
Here are some spoilerfree ones:
https://shorturl.at/etABJ
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F3bt5nr30kwr61.jpg
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fqmtqarruiwr61.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fc/5c/ce/fc5ccea36e414637ad07e963c7fb5a43.jpg
https://zoronamiplus.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/6/7/37674207/9529187_orig.png
None of them are canon. These are taken from East Blue Saga. There are many more and much more beautiful ones, but I don't want to show you characters that appear later in the story. Trust me, some CS are breathtaking. You simply get the sense that Oda loves drawing the series. One comment I saw while searching these: "It feels like going through a family album". The only times these are translated into the anime are very short moments during openings.
There. 4 good reasons why you should read the manga over the anime. The only things I can think about the anime doing better is voice acting and music but that's only thanks to the medium. And as for the music, you can listen to it while reading. Imo, Toei fucked up that aspect as well because they reuse the same music over many pivotal moments, making scenes feel weak because they didn't compose NEW music for those. So the songs you get to hear in the anime's first 50 episodes will be reused even 400-800 episodes later. They are kings of recycling.
This isn't meant to trash any opinions on the anime, but rather offering advice for new readers/fans. If somebody still wants to give the anime a go, then go for it. But One Piece is the most popular and successful manga and not anime. For multiple reasons. I'm longing for the day when One Piece gets the anime treatment it deserves, on one level with Attack on Titan for example.
Thanks for reading.
I did this breakdown for another user but I feel like it's worth for its own post, so here you go, a comparison between the manga and anime in favor of the manga. I used to watch the anime back until 2009 and then switched to the manga because it became unbearable and occasionally checking out the anime in the following years.
1. The manga is uncensored.
It's the story where everything is canon, positive and negative. No fillers, other than some arcs going a bit too long later on. Scenes have more blood, violence depiction is higher, you will see scenes in their actual uncensored form and not toned down / censored for the anime
This means for the anime:
- Every middlefinger is removed
- Blood and wounds are toned down or even removed
- Sometimes scenes are missing implied violence (like a character who is holding a knife in a scene but nothing in the anime)
The following image is a side by side comparison manga vs anime. It's mostly spoilerfree but there are a few pictures that show scenes from the later series. But I think new readers won't realize what is happening or why as context is missing. I did leave out extreme examples.
https://i.ibb.co/WGn8tNh/censorship-onepiece.jpg
Not beautiful but it does the trick. You want more? https://opwiki.org/wiki/Zensuren_im_Anime Here, it's in German though but the images speak for themselves. There are many scenes that were changed from the manga to anime.
The manga has a slight edge with this over the anime's depicted content. Since the anime censors so many scenes, often gruesome or serious scenes feel out of place, because previous content was toned down for viewership. This doesn't happen in the manga, where violence is depicted more often.
2. The pacing
Yes, the pacing is much better (what most people mean with "faster") for the story. The anime in the very beginning only adapted 2 chapters for each episode which can be considered snail pace for nowadays standards. Nowadays Toei Animation only adapts 0,4/0,5/0,6 chapters per episode. See, what's wrong with that? Out of the 20 minutes in an episode, you will get 3 minutes of actual story progression per episode. So the rest is filled with: repetitive reaction shots, endless running scenes, filler scenes, increased onscreen time for specific characters and in general with stuff that never happened in the manga. One Piece manga currently has 1100 chapters but One Piece anime has 1090 episodes. You get that? This just feels so wrong. One Piece s a relic of an old-fashioned release model of trying to hook people with weekly episodes to have their interest maintained. However, this is outdated because it released in the late 90s and there was less competition back then. Due to a triangle relationship of the IP between Shueisha, Toei Animation and Fuji TV we will never get a seasonal anime until One Piece ends.
One Piece used to do a lot of filler episodes and kinda stopped at one point doing them altogether but Toei sneakily started adding the aforementioned fillers into the canon episodes in return. So good thing: Less filler episodes. Bad thing: They are now found in the actual episodes. Worst thing: Less new story content and everything is stretched even further than Luffy could ever do.
Nowadays, there is so much competition that you can't release another series like this. Which is why today's manga to anime adaptations become seasonal. Less episodes, more content, better animation. Sadly, OP won't get this treatment because Fuji TV is against doing this. They like their sunday numbers. Toei Animation's treatment for One Piece is the reason Shueisha and Weekly Shonen Jump are more careful nowdays to who they sell their licenses.
If One Piece was seasonal from the start and adapting 3-4 chapters per episode, like so many other anime do, the anime wouldn't even have more than 375 Episodes. Yes, 700 episodes scratched off the list, just like that. One Pace, a fanproject that cuts down the anime episodes (sometimes 3-5 episodes into a single one) tries to fix the pacing by removing all the filler but you still end up with 600 episodes in the long run. Their editing is limited. They aren't magicians after all, since it's a structural problem of the anime.
If you want an example of how bad it can get: Toei Animation adapted Dress Rosa (an arguably good arc, in retrospective in the manga) from 100 manga chapters into 117 anime episodes. You can read a manga chapter in under 10 minutes, an anime episode goes for 20 minutes. And yet they adapted more episodes than manga chapters. DR made a lot of people jump into the manga. If it was seasonal, the arc would have been done in 25 episodes max. So we had 1000 manga minutes and 2340 anime minutes. That's just mind boggling and is objectively horrible. Wano Kuni goes for 191 episodes (including a few filler episodes) with just 150 chapters as the base...
3. Horrendous animation quality
Oda has a distinct artstyle that others would consider "ugly" but that's often coming from the fact that they are exposed to the anime rather than the manga because Toei has used over 50 different animation directors for the series. Over 50 different people with 50 different artstyles when translating the manga artstyle to anime, which often leads to very strange body proportions (even stranger than the manga) and ugly faces.
For me, Oda has one of the most beautiful artstyles, but you have to accept its goofyness, its childish charm in return. It never turns into Bleach but Oda envokes great imagery with his environments and exegerrated faces. I'm a big fan how he draws the cryfaces of characters as they feel genuine.
Now take a look at some animation directors for the series:
Yuji Kondou: https://opwiki.org/images/Yuji_Kondou.jpg
Kenji Yokoyama: https://opwiki.org/images/Kenji_Yokoyama.jpg
Shigefumi Shingaki: https://opwiki.org/images/Shigefumi_Shingaki.jpg
Kazuo Takigawa: https://opwiki.org/images/Kazuo_Takigawa.jpg
Masahiro Shimanuki: https://opwiki.org/images/Masahiro_Shimanuki.jpg
Now, none of these are horribly bad, however, they all differ in quality and style.
Now compare all of them with their current Animation director for all the movies of One Piece starting with Movie 10:
Masayuki Sato: https://opwiki.org/images/Masayuki_Sato.jpg
Or take Keiichi Ichikawa who worked on Episode 927, 1000, Heart of Gold Special: https://opwiki.org/images/Keiichi_Ichikawa.jpg
This is how the series could always look like, if it was seasonal. See the difference? The characters have great proportions and depth, they don't look flat, they don't look wrong.
Here is one of the worst offenders of the anime:
Naoki Tate: https://opwiki.org/images/Naoki_Tate.jpg
He got action scenes fluently and right but fucks up the faces and proportions in return.
None of these issues exist in the manga. Oda's artstyle gets a bit messier later down the road but he nails his proportions and faces. The anime counterparts often look like caricatures.
Here is a spoilerfree image of a character that appears later in the story:
Anime left, manga right: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F6m5a29vi8sj71.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D3ce1cbc3277fbfe4717eb51636053663e3766777
Here another one: https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-981231b06c9e97501fac622ba57e01e0
See the proportions? Look at the head and the breast size. This happens all the time. Toei ups the fanservice too much. There is fanservice in the manga but the anime overdoes it. Add the horrible animation and you got Frankenstein: The Anime. Due to so many different animation directors, the anime of One Piece fluctuates in animation and artstyle quality because so many people are involved from episode to episode. This doesn't just end here, they also fuck up pivotal moments from the manga. I would like to go deeper into this, but it would be a big spoiler of the abilities of characters which were depicted much weaker and much slower than they should have. Additionally, pivotal arcs that were extremely well done in the manga, like Marine Ford arc, are horribily animated in the anime as well. It's just so disappointing.
As for the manga, you can read at your own pace. You can rest on pages you find beautiful and even look for easter eggs or background details. Oda's artstyle later evolves, it's very simplistic early on and only starts to truly open up (like the world building) when they are on the Grand Line.
4. Cover Stories and Color Spreads
The manga has additonally two big advantages over the anime. There is a thing called "Cover Stories" where Oda tells stories involving side characters during the chapter-pages. These are all canon. You don't see them in the anime. One-image stories that often go for like 10-15 chapters in a row. It's cool world building, outside of the chapters content and you get to see characters that haven't appeared in a while and simply see what they are doing while the Strawhats experience their adventures.
And another great thing about the manga are color spreads. Beautiful double spreads that are basically Oda's "Fanart". He often draws the strawhats in fantastical environments or celebrating specific holidays, or other strange combinations. They are beautiful to look at.
Here are some spoilerfree ones:
https://shorturl.at/etABJ
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F3bt5nr30kwr61.jpg
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fqmtqarruiwr61.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fc/5c/ce/fc5ccea36e414637ad07e963c7fb5a43.jpg
https://zoronamiplus.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/6/7/37674207/9529187_orig.png
None of them are canon. These are taken from East Blue Saga. There are many more and much more beautiful ones, but I don't want to show you characters that appear later in the story. Trust me, some CS are breathtaking. You simply get the sense that Oda loves drawing the series. One comment I saw while searching these: "It feels like going through a family album". The only times these are translated into the anime are very short moments during openings.
There. 4 good reasons why you should read the manga over the anime. The only things I can think about the anime doing better is voice acting and music but that's only thanks to the medium. And as for the music, you can listen to it while reading. Imo, Toei fucked up that aspect as well because they reuse the same music over many pivotal moments, making scenes feel weak because they didn't compose NEW music for those. So the songs you get to hear in the anime's first 50 episodes will be reused even 400-800 episodes later. They are kings of recycling.
This isn't meant to trash any opinions on the anime, but rather offering advice for new readers/fans. If somebody still wants to give the anime a go, then go for it. But One Piece is the most popular and successful manga and not anime. For multiple reasons. I'm longing for the day when One Piece gets the anime treatment it deserves, on one level with Attack on Titan for example.
Thanks for reading.
The irony in the final thing you said is that one piece is getting an anime remake already, animation by WIT Studios, the same studio that brought us Attack on Titan. Nobody knows what approach they’re taking, but it will tackle all the concerns you have about the pacing, the art style will probably be more consistent since it will be a Netflix show, so it will be seasonal (but most likely released in patches), and possibly the anime may not be as toned down as toei’s version. Not many details have been revealed, but go look into “The One Piece” if you want to know more.
Personally though, I think the pacing was fine until Dressrosa, I can see how the pacing has plummeted now. Before the majority of the pacing issues was just the recaps, and opening monologues. In Dressrosa we still have the long recaps, and opening monologues, but there’s not a lot happening each episode. Somehow there’s less happening each episode now when we don’t even have ending songs, compared to when we did.
Kyrinis said: What do you think luffy's dream is after becoming the king of the pirates? (ep-1088) When he shouted his dream as a kid, next to Sabo and Ace, it's cut off. The others then react weirdly on what he just said. It can't be "becoming pirate king" because Ace previously said he wanted to become a great pirate and Luffy's dream is just one step above it. Roger never wanted to become pirate king and acted surprised when the Marine/WG called him that in the newspapers after reaching Laugh Tale. When he shouted his dream (and it being cut off as well) Whitebeard and Oden reacted surprised and told him he sounded like a kid. The panels and constellation in both scenes is exactly mirrored, too on purpose to be random. So Luffy's dream must be something that is considered childish but can only be reached, after he becomes pirate king. Most comments I've seen is him talking about throwing the "biggest party in the world" but I don't think it's that. His actual dream is to make everybody in the world become pirates, so that they are ultimately free, because Luffy considers being pirate a person with free will and being able to do everything they want. @Kampos Kampos said: And what do you mean that it will never be seasonal? Wit Studio is making a seasonal remake I wasn't aware that an anime remake was announced, so I was talking about the main anime. The remake is great news and I'm looking forward to it. I'm neither the first, nor the last person to do so. There have been many "manga or anime?" threads that have popped up over the past two decades. I wanted to give my own view on it, especially concerning the censorship and cover stories that many anime-only watchers aren't aware how much changes going from source material to adaptation. If the length is a problem for you, I should have done a TL;DR. Nevertheless, thanks for the feedback. @EpicG4ymer: Yeah, the anime announcement is very good news. At the time I wrote the post (and its previous version in a different thread) I wasn't aware of the announcement. Wit Studio making it, a studio I respect, meaning that we finally and hopefully get the kind of adaptation the manga always deserved. Thanks to you and the other user to make me aware of it. It really moved under my radar. |
Dec 24, 2023 10:15 AM
#27
| obviously the manga, far better pacing, and out of the two it is the one that will most likely conclude at some point |
Dec 24, 2023 12:35 PM
#28
Reply to Morayne
Kyrinis said:
What do you think luffy's dream is after becoming the king of the pirates? (ep-1088)
What do you think luffy's dream is after becoming the king of the pirates? (ep-1088)
When he shouted his dream as a kid, next to Sabo and Ace, it's cut off. The others then react weirdly on what he just said. It can't be "becoming pirate king" because Ace previously said he wanted to become a great pirate and Luffy's dream is just one step above it.
Roger never wanted to become pirate king and acted surprised when the Marine/WG called him that in the newspapers after reaching Laugh Tale. When he shouted his dream (and it being cut off as well) Whitebeard and Oden reacted surprised and told him he sounded like a kid. The panels and constellation in both scenes is exactly mirrored, too on purpose to be random.
So Luffy's dream must be something that is considered childish but can only be reached, after he becomes pirate king.
Most comments I've seen is him talking about throwing the "biggest party in the world" but I don't think it's that. His actual dream is to make everybody in the world become pirates, so that they are ultimately free, because Luffy considers being pirate a person with free will and being able to do everything they want.
@Kampos
Kampos said:
And what do you mean that it will never be seasonal? Wit Studio is making a seasonal remake
And what do you mean that it will never be seasonal? Wit Studio is making a seasonal remake
I wasn't aware that an anime remake was announced, so I was talking about the main anime. The remake is great news and I'm looking forward to it.
I'm neither the first, nor the last person to do so. There have been many "manga or anime?" threads that have popped up over the past two decades. I wanted to give my own view on it, especially concerning the censorship and cover stories that many anime-only watchers aren't aware how much changes going from source material to adaptation. If the length is a problem for you, I should have done a TL;DR. Nevertheless, thanks for the feedback.
@EpicG4ymer: Yeah, the anime announcement is very good news. At the time I wrote the post (and its previous version in a different thread) I wasn't aware of the announcement. Wit Studio making it, a studio I respect, meaning that we finally and hopefully get the kind of adaptation the manga always deserved.
Thanks to you and the other user to make me aware of it. It really moved under my radar.
| @Morayne Toei One Piece will always be special. & it's kind of funny that you ignore all the people who don't mind the anime's pacing. "Manga elitists" sure are a special breed of pretentious. |
| ๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฅ๐๐๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐จ ๐ฅ๐๐ง๐๐๐๐ฉ๐ก๐ฎ ๐๐๐ฃ๐. - ๐๐๐๐ |
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