Is Attack on Titan the best anime about freedom?

Attack on Titan

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Aug 8, 2022 5:06 PM

#101

DeN11

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Jun 2019

322

Mikasa said:
It's a coping mechanism employing the sunk-cost fallacy: spending too much time reading it that it HAS to be good, otherwise they'll have wasted so much time reading a subpar story, a reality not many can afford.

Basically this scene encapsulates this issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNWpXiuQVsA&ab_channel=tvgirl17

Man is trying to use economics to explain why one piece is mid

lmao

Smoking is only cool in anime, so please don't smoke

Aug 8, 2022 7:15 PM

#102

DeonX

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Feb 2021

23444

From what I've seen AOT portrays the struggle for freedom the best. Other than that, the only 'freedom struggle' I've seen in anime is in The Promised Neverland, Promare, and One Piece (Arlong Park arc)

Not sure how people think Vinland Saga, Redo of Healer. Vinland Saga's main theme is vengeance and it's the same with Redo of Healer. Both the MCs fight for revenge on their enemies. Maybe it's shown in the further arcs of Vinland Saga.

Aug 8, 2022 10:18 PM

#103

Mikasa

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Mar 2012

7011

Praxiteles said:

Man is trying to use economics to explain why one piece is mid

lmao

Sunk-cost can be psychological rather than economical, and I wouldn't call one piece mid. It used to be, but now it's just bad. Like, worse than Bleach's orihime stuff.

End Zionazism

Aug 8, 2022 11:59 PM

#104

ktg

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May 2016

2070

ghier said:

ktg said:

Sujal234 said:

ktg said:

Sujal234 said:

ktg said:

Sujal234 said:

ktg said:

LTS979 said:

ktg said:
About freedom? One Piece, Code Geass.

oh yea one piece I forgot some arcs are like that

The whole show is about that:
"I Don’t Wanna Conquer Anything. It's Just That The Person With The Most Freedom On The Sea is The Pirate King."
/Luffy/

DerpySven said:

ktg said:
About freedom? One Piece, Code Geass.

code geass? he Just want to destory the world and create a new one

He wants to free everyone from the hatred, the war. And let them be free and happy, so they can decide their own future.

The SnK is actually the worst example out of the 3, because it's more like about revenge than freedom. The series shows what's the problem when someone misinterpret freedom.

same goes to one piece it is more of a fun, adventure then freedom.
One piece, the characters has the ideology of freedom but he never tries to accomplish it, FREEDOM how many times this word was even said in One Piece?
ONE PIECE IS MORE OF AN ANIME THAT REPRESENTS FRIENDSHIP and LOYALTY.

One piece is a good show but it is the worst example for FREEDOM because it never focuses on freedom it always focuses on its adventure.

Eren put his ideology of freedom (which he had for 3 seasons) on grisha yeager and all the previous attack titan so that he could manipulate 2000 years of history.
As for AOT the freedom plays important role in the show, Erens ideology of freedom was the reason that this story came up to rumbling.
after season 3
It is not a revenge story anymore, it is a survival story now.
If you want to survive you have to fight and if you don't fight you will die.
if eldians will not fight back then they will be killed by marleys and rest of the world.

Eren is not taking revenge, he just want his people and his friends to live freely and peacefully.
And for him rumbling is the best option.
if people outside paradis will never exist they there will be no threat to paradis.
You will find out what eren really wants in s4 pt3.

BUT FOR ME THE BEST ANIME THAT REPRESENT FREEDOM (from the animes/mangas that i have watched/read)
is VINLAND SAGA.

You are a bit off.
The adventure in One Piece means you can do what you want which is equal the definiton of freedom.
And the 'you can do what you want' concept is always in One Piece, almost in every episodes.

While the problem in SnK is that the freedom is only rationalization. Eren wants revenge and he misinterprets as freedom. Which comes up in the show, but the characters never tried to refute as an ideology.
That's why we can't really talk about freedom there. As a misinterpretation yes, but nothing more, because even the alliance didn't understand the problem.

I kinda agree with you.
But freedom in one piece is totally different from freedom in aot.
Freedom in one piece is real and simple that you can do anything you want.

Freedom in AOT IS ILLUSION, IT IS NOT TRUE/real.
That dialogue kenny said in s3 "everyone is a slave of something/someone"
You can't achieve freedom in aot.
Eren was trying to achieve something that is literally impossible in AOT.
In Aot no one is free
For example =
Eren isn't free, he is the slave of Attack titans powers or his future self.
He can't do whatever he wants , he is doing what the attack titan is showing him, means his future
That says eren is not free he is the slave of attack titans power.

Another example from one piece=

After becoming king of pirates luffy becomes free but if he exist in aot world then luffy isn't free even though is achieved pirate King title.

Can luffy be able to swim after achieving pirate King title or freedom?
No, that means luffy isn't free he is slave of the sea.

This is how freedom actually means in aot world.

That's why I like how AOT represent that freedom for 3 seasons but in last season, they just tell you the harsh reality/truth that no one in this world is free.

I wouldn't say that.
If we say everyone is a slave of his own dream, because that's what Kenny meant, then we'll talk about the misinterpretation of dream.
It is a dream because you want to achiece it and not the dream makes you do stuff.

That's what's going on in SnK. Many good things or concepts are purposely misinterpreted.

As for the Attack Titan power, it just means you decide based on your own situation. For example, if you want to buy a new mobile, but have no money, then you won't buy it, if you have money, you'll buy it.
It doesn't really make you a slave.

if you don't have money you don't buy a mobile that you wanted/needed then how does that make that you can do whatever you want?
You can't do whatever you want because you are slave of something.
You can't buy a mobile THAT YOU WANT/NEED because you are slave of the money.

That is how I thought all around AOT.
Maybe I am wrong.
Maybe you didn't thought the same way how I thought.
But I still respect your opinion man.

Anyways this whole freedom thing is bullshit
Lets just respect each others opinions and KEEP MOVING FORWARD🤣

And if you can buy a mobile, you are not slave of money? But if you can buy a mobile, but not buy a new house, you become slave of the money again? And if you can buy a house too, but not a country, you are slave?
This argument is pretty weak. Being slave is not just a temporary 2 months thing. Kenny talked about people's whole life, not just moments.

Actually, I have problems with unconditional respects towards others' opinions. Let's my opinion is this:
SnK is about Eren, who wanna have sex with his father. But his father died, so he made a deal with Azumabito. With their technology they could clone his dead father, but for that Eren need to kill 100 million people.
This interpretation is okay? Would you say that you can accept this?

In SnK case, not looking behind the words and not seeing the true meaning is a problem, because if we use the quotes literally, then it's simply mean Reiner, Annie etc are heroes, because in Marley they call them heroes.
In the show, every time the author use a "good" thing and twist it until it becomes bad. Like we earlier talked about freedom and revenge, now we talked about slavery and dream. But you can see other examples as well like nationalism, heroism etc.

I already refuted this. If you are interested why you are wrong, read my other comments in the topic.

It is an option, but Eren was always drawn as a simple character. Even in the first season he started off as a generic shounen protagonist and later on he didn't really become a clever or deeper character.
So, he's having only an motive is much more like him.

I mean he’s much more mature than the generic mix of revenge protagonist and shounen protagonist he was at the start. He’s also not a fucking idiot anymore lol. Maybe not cleverer specifically, but he can at least recognize a situation for what it is.

Anyway, that’s besides the point…

I’m pretty sure throughout the whole story he has had these dual motives and they were never confused with one another. Maybe which was prioritized over the other was something that shifted around a lot. Is that what you meant?

Recognizing those situations is nothing special. If you think about it, his logic is still immature. For example, "if I tell them I hate them, they will hate me back".

And I don't actually see the dual motive. Always and everything is subject to his goal, even his friend's death. We know that, because he caused it. So he's willing to sacrifice his other "motives".

mapleter said:

ktg said:
In SnK case, not looking behind the words and not seeing the true meaning is a problem, because if we use the quotes literally, then it's simply mean Reiner, Annie etc are heroes, because in Marley they call them heroes.
In the show, every time the author use a "good" thing and twist it until it becomes bad. Like we earlier talked about freedom and revenge, now we talked about slavery and dream. But you can see other examples as well like nationalism, heroism etc.

Not that I am entirely refuting the points you brought up, but the author did do a shoutout to Kenny's chapter after manga ending. He also commented in an interview that Eren is a slave to the story, aka he's not free because his actions are dictated by how the author wrote him and the plot.

If we use this definition, then freedom doesn't exist in media, because the characters are never free of the author's will.

As for Eren's case, yes, he wasn't free, because of his revenge, but without it, he would have been free. At a certain point Eren had the power to create freedom and balance in the world, but he didn't choose that because of his revenge.
But Kenny wasn't talking about specific people, he was talking about everyone. So we need to understand the world slave in that context. If someone is a slave literally, that obviously works, but many people isn't slaves, just following their dreams, for example. In other words, with the word slave, Kenny categorized everything as "bad", while there are good motives.

Aug 9, 2022 4:19 AM

#105

ghier

Offline

Aug 2019

1498

@ktg Bruh, you need to stop and re-evaluate your own position before continuing to argue. It looks like you completely lost the point of my response and refuted claims just to refute them. This isn’t a competition, right? It’s a discussion.

Good day to you sir.

Aug 9, 2022 6:15 AM

#106

DeN11

Offline

Jun 2019

322

Mikasa said:

Praxiteles said:

Man is trying to use economics to explain why one piece is mid

lmao

Sunk-cost can be psychological rather than economical, and I wouldn't call one piece mid. It used to be, but now it's just bad. Like, worse than Bleach's orihime stuff.

ehh... I never paid attention in my psych class. Just wanted the credit for it.

I guess the idea of sunk-cost is rooted in psych as it's a major part of behavioral economic.

Anyways, I enjoy reading One Piece, not so much AoT, but to each his own.

Smoking is only cool in anime, so please don't smoke

Aug 10, 2022 4:17 AM

#107

TheMansWorld

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Jul 2022

120

Bumping this thread

Sep 9, 2022 12:52 AM

#108

ktg

Offline

May 2016

2070

ghier said:
@ktg Bruh, you need to stop and re-evaluate your own position before continuing to argue. It looks like you completely lost the point of my response and refuted claims just to refute them. This isn’t a competition, right? It’s a discussion.

Good day to you sir.

No, I refute it, because I don't argue with them.
I won't say that "yes, you are right", when you obviously are not.

Sep 9, 2022 4:39 AM

#109

ghier

Offline

Aug 2019

1498

ktg said:

No, I refute it, because I don't argue with them.
I won't say that "yes, you are right", when you obviously are not.

But why is my argument so obviously wrong and yours so obviously right?

I’m asking you to do away with the notion of winning an argument or debate, proving yourself right or more thoughtful so that you might reflect a bit on your points and mine. Once you do, you’ll find yourself moderating your own perspective. Then you can have actual conversations on here rather than back and forth debates with neither side yielding any ground.

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