Kakashi&#039;s biggest plot hole

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RahulSenpai said:

VolKur said:

He was given the mangekyo sharingan by Obito at the end again I guess you didn't watched it properly

I already explained you, that you can't access perfect susanoo if you doesn't have eternal mangekyo saringan and only way to activate eternal mangekyo saringan you have you have to transplanting the Mangekyo saringan of an Uchiha with strong blood ties — ideally a sibling — thus awakening the so-called Eternal Mangekyo Saringan.

Sep 7, 2021 8:25 PM

#5

RahulSenpai

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Jan 2021

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VolKur said:

RahulSenpai said:

He was given the mangekyo sharingan by Obito at the end again I guess you didn't watched it properly

I already explained you, that you can't access perfect susanoo if you doesn't have eternal mangekyo saringan and only way to activate eternal mangekyo saringan you have you have to transplanting the Mangekyo saringan of an Uchiha with strong blood ties — ideally a sibling — thus awakening the so-called Eternal Mangekyo Saringan.

I guess then no arguments here

Sep 7, 2021 8:30 PM

#6

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BP3 said:

VolKur said:

he never got eternal mangegyo sharingan. Before Obito completely passed into the afterlife, he used some leftover six paths power and kamui to transport the last of his chakra temporarily into kakashi. Since the rinnegan and six paths are closely related and he previously possessed the rinnegan, combined with the fact that the rinnegan is above the eternal MS on the sharingan hierarchy, it kinda makes sense he could pull it off. Just a fan theory tho lol. Completely ripped this from swagkage's channel.

Obito never got access to rinnegan, he borrowed that rinnegan from madara.
If you haven't forgotten then watch 4th great ninja war again when black zetsu tries to take away rinnegan from obito in front of kakashi and minato.
So, when he was in six path mode, the rinnegan in his eyes weren't his, those eyes belongs to madara.
And even in after life he never get access to eternal mangekyo or rinnegan!!

Sep 7, 2021 8:44 PM

#7

Hunted

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Dec 2015

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kakashi access eternal mangekyo saringan because they are really close freinds

Sep 7, 2021 8:45 PM

#8

BP3

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358

VolKur said:

BP3 said:

he never got eternal mangegyo sharingan. Before Obito completely passed into the afterlife, he used some leftover six paths power and kamui to transport the last of his chakra temporarily into kakashi. Since the rinnegan and six paths are closely related and he previously possessed the rinnegan, combined with the fact that the rinnegan is above the eternal MS on the sharingan hierarchy, it kinda makes sense he could pull it off. Just a fan theory tho lol. Completely ripped this from swagkage's channel.

Obito never got access to rinnegan, he borrowed that rinnegan from madara.
If you haven't forgotten then watch 4th great ninja war again when black zetsu tries to take away rinnegan from obito in front of kakashi and minato.
So, when he was in six path mode, the rinnegan in his eyes weren't his, those eyes belongs to madara.
And even in after life he never get access to eternal mangekyo or rinnegan!!

well what I was saying is that he did it with the residual chakra of those things he had left. Yes, it's a huge stretch but that's just how I choose to see it cause I hate leaving plot holes unfilled in my head lol

Sep 7, 2021 8:51 PM

#9

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BP3 said:

VolKur said:

Obito never got access to rinnegan, he borrowed that rinnegan from madara.
If you haven't forgotten then watch 4th great ninja war again when black zetsu tries to take away rinnegan from obito in front of kakashi and minato.
So, when he was in six path mode, the rinnegan in his eyes weren't his, those eyes belongs to madara.
And even in after life he never get access to eternal mangekyo or rinnegan!!

well what I was saying is that he did it with the residual chakra of those things he had left. Yes, it's a huge stretch but that's just how I choose to see it cause I hate leaving plot holes unfilled in my head lol

Master BP3 teach me this technique to manipulate the inner brain and change the story of other great authors!!

Sep 7, 2021 8:59 PM

#10

BP3

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VolKur said:

BP3 said:

well what I was saying is that he did it with the residual chakra of those things he had left. Yes, it's a huge stretch but that's just how I choose to see it cause I hate leaving plot holes unfilled in my head lol

Master BP3 teach me this technique to manipulate the inner brain and change the story of other great authors!!

it called.. "denial" special skill class-A lol

Sep 7, 2021 9:00 PM

#11

ProxyLain

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Itachi also does not eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and uses the Susano. I don't think you saw it right.
Hole in Kakashi's story is just his age.

Sep 7, 2021 9:03 PM

#12

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ProxyLain said:
Itachi also does not eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and uses the Susano. I don't think you saw it right.
Hole in Kakashi's story is just his age.

No, I said kakashi uses perfect susanoo, where as itachi uses incomplete susanoo.
And if I'm still wrong then tell me when did itachi ever used a complete susanoo.

Sep 7, 2021 9:07 PM

#13

Voila_

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Mar 2021

285

I don't understand why does kakashi has a sharinghan in the first place, as is has to be with uchiha clan. Can anybody explain.

Sep 7, 2021 9:07 PM

#14

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Hunted said:
kakashi access eternal mangekyo saringan because they are really close freinds

OMG, just read this.
you have to transplanting the Mangekyo saringan of an Uchiha with strong blood ties — ideally a sibling — thus awakening the so-called Eternal Mangekyo Saringan.
These are the words of madara and obito.
Kakashi and obito are not blood related.

Sep 7, 2021 9:13 PM

#15

ProxyLain

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Apr 2019

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VolKur said:

ProxyLain said:
Itachi also does not eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and uses the Susano. I don't think you saw it right.
Hole in Kakashi's story is just his age.

No, I said kakashi uses perfect susanoo, where as itachi uses incomplete susanoo.
And if I'm still wrong then tell me when itachi uses a complete susanoo.

Ah, yes, sorry.
But you didn't consider the power of the Chakra. Susano is basically Chakra, for a perfect Susano he needs a powerful Chakra manifested by the user. Obito literally had 6 Path Chakra, and that little Chakra was passed on to Kakashi. It doesn't exactly need an Eternal Mangekyou for the Perfect Susano. Sasuke himself didn't get the perfect Susano just by having Itachi's eyes, it took a while.
Basically the Perfect Susano is the apex of power, it doesn't necessarily need an eternal mangekyou. In fact, Susano can be used even without eyes (Madara did this).

Sep 7, 2021 9:13 PM

#16

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Voilaanime said:
I don't understand why does kakashi has a sharinghan in the first place, as is has to be with uchiha clan. Can anybody explain.

As you know it was given by his best friend obito as a gift.
I understand but to access eternal mangekyo saringan, that was just absurd. I think this is one of the biggest plot holes of story that was never talked before because it was overshadowed by naruto vs sasuke fight.

Sep 7, 2021 9:16 PM

#17

Voila_

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Mar 2021

285

VolKur said:

Voilaanime said:
I don't understand why does kakashi has a sharinghan in the first place, as is has to be with uchiha clan. Can anybody explain.

As you know it was given by his best friend obito as a gift.
I understand but to access eternal mangekyo saringan, that was just absurd. I think this is one of the biggest plot holes of story that was never talked before because it was overshadowed by naruto vs sasuke fight.

Thanks bro for as I don't understand about mangekyo sharinghan.

Sep 7, 2021 9:17 PM

#18

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ProxyLain said:

VolKur said:

No, I said kakashi uses perfect susanoo, where as itachi uses incomplete susanoo.
And if I'm still wrong then tell me when itachi uses a complete susanoo.

Ah, yes, sorry.
But you didn't consider the power of the Chakra. Susano is basically Chakra, for a perfect Susano he needs a powerful Chakra manifested by the user. Obito literally had 6 Path Chakra, and that little Chakra was passed on to Kakashi. It doesn't exactly need an Eternal Mangekyou for the Perfect Susano. Sasuke himself didn't get the perfect Susano just by having Itachi's eyes, it took a while.
Basically the Perfect Susano is the apex of power, it doesn't necessarily need an eternal mangekyou. In fact, Susano can be used even without eyes (Madara did this).

I think you have to watch the whole naruto shippuden again, and you should get checkup by a doctor.

Sep 7, 2021 9:20 PM

#19

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Paragrin said:
There’s a couple ways you can take it, choose to believe in whatever one makes you happy.

1. Obito’s spirit inhabits kakashi allowing him to use both of obito’s Mangekyō and something about that lets him use a complete susanoo.

2. The combination of obito’s spirit plus the six path chakra kakashi gets amplified the strength of susanoo.

3. They wanted a cool full body susanoo during the big fight and didn’t get hung up over the details.

I think Masashi Kishimoto should have explained that part better because the fight ended without explaining anythings.(in simple words ending was really rushed with no proper explanation)

Sep 7, 2021 9:22 PM

#20

ProxyLain

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Apr 2019

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VolKur said:

ProxyLain said:

Ah, yes, sorry.
But you didn't consider the power of the Chakra. Susano is basically Chakra, for a perfect Susano he needs a powerful Chakra manifested by the user. Obito literally had 6 Path Chakra, and that little Chakra was passed on to Kakashi. It doesn't exactly need an Eternal Mangekyou for the Perfect Susano. Sasuke himself didn't get the perfect Susano just by having Itachi's eyes, it took a while.
Basically the Perfect Susano is the apex of power, it doesn't necessarily need an eternal mangekyou. In fact, Susano can be used even without eyes (Madara did this).

I think you have to watch the whole naruto shippuden again, and you should get checkup by a doctor.

Why see 500 episodes again if I can see better animes?
In less than 5 minutes you can google your question instead of talking nonsense in the forums.
In fact, I remember and even researched it to confirm. A rule that must be eternal to use the full Susano has never been established. Susano is Mangekyou's chakra manifestation, not specifically from the eternal. It all depends on the user's Chakra.

Sep 7, 2021 9:23 PM

#21

MuZe-

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May 2021

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It was an asspull, things like these happen in anime. Well tbh, the whole thing with Kaguya in the last few episodes was shitty so can't even complain about the susanoo much.

Sep 7, 2021 9:35 PM

#22

M_A_R_K

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Dec 2020

199

Tobi did have many eyes with sharingan in his posess. We see that when sasuke transplanted itachi's eye.I think obito took fugaku's eye(as fagaku uchiha also have the MS)and transplanted in himself.In this way obito got access to perfect susanoo but as he didn’t have both eyes he didn’t got the chance to use it. At last he gave it to Kakashi temporarily by the help of his kamui and some chakra he left.

Sep 7, 2021 10:05 PM

#23

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Jun 2019

230

First of all, that title is so deceiving 🤣 I was wondering how huge a plot hole it is. For one, even in perfect susanoo mode, Kakashi didn't do much during that last fight anyway.

As for the actual argument. I think your whole point is bound to the idea that perfect susanoo requires EMS. Was that ever established? As far as I remember, the only requirement is MS 🤔

My best guess why EMS would be assumed as a requirement for susanoo is because it takes time to even unlock susanoo, and an even longer time to master it. That means, by the time you master it, your eyes are most likely used up. For Kakashi, he didn't have to go through this whole mastery process haha it was just given.

And let me just bring up the other perfect susanoo user, Indra. I'm pretty sure that guy didn't have EMS either but was able to use complete susanoo (in the anime. Not sure if this was ever mentioned in manga).

"To keep enduring, no matter what, until things come to pass...perhaps that's what it means to be a ninja." - Uchiha Sasuke

Sep 8, 2021 2:26 AM

#24

immanoj

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Jun 2021

1

MARKfeni said:
Tobi did have many eyes with sharingan in his posess. We see that when sasuke transplanted itachi's eye.I think obito took fugaku's eye(as fagaku uchiha also have the MS)and transplanted in himself.In this way obito got access to perfect susanoo but as he didn’t have both eyes he didn’t got the chance to use it. At last he gave it to Kakashi temporarily by the help of his kamui and some chakra he left.

This is more reliable theory... Bcoz tobi did have access to number of Sharingan eyeballs and he did use the Kamui more efficiently. Its most probable that Tobi possessed EMS than normal MS bcoz he didn't worry about overusing his eye like Itachi did and Sasuke did before his EMS.

immanojSep 8, 2021 2:30 AM

Sep 8, 2021 3:10 AM

#25

Zhre

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26

VolKur said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t you just Need the normal Sharingan not Ems because itachi also used susanoo in the fight against sasuke and he doesn’t have ems

Sep 8, 2021 3:41 AM

#26

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Zhre said:

VolKur said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t you just Need the normal Sharingan not Ems because itachi also used susanoo in the fight against sasuke and he doesn’t have ems

There are three stages of susanoo.
First stage you only need mangekyo saringan.
And your susanoo will look like this

It's an incomplete susanoo.

Second stage you need a EMS. Not necessarily you can access this susanoo by MS only(top level MS).
And your susanoo will look like this

It's an complete susanoo.

Third stage you need a uchiha with great control over EMS.
And you susanoo will look like this

It's an Perfect Susanoo

And as I already explained earlier, you can't access perfect susanoo without EMS and to activate EMS you have to transplanting the Mangekyo saringan of an Uchiha with strong blood ties — ideally a sibling — thus awakening the so-called Eternal Mangekyo Saringan.
And obito is not blood related brother of kakashi, and kakashi is not an uchiha as well.
Any questions?

Sep 8, 2021 3:50 AM

#27

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Jul 2018

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llolzcalai said:
First of all, that title is so deceiving 🤣 I was wondering how huge a plot hole it is. For one, even in perfect susanoo mode, Kakashi didn't do much during that last fight anyway.

As for the actual argument. I think your whole point is bound to the idea that perfect susanoo requires EMS. Was that ever established? As far as I remember, the only requirement is MS 🤔

My best guess why EMS would be assumed as a requirement for susanoo is because it takes time to even unlock susanoo, and an even longer time to master it. That means, by the time you master it, your eyes are most likely used up. For Kakashi, he didn't have to go through this whole mastery process haha it was just given.

And let me just bring up the other perfect susanoo user, Indra. I'm pretty sure that guy didn't have EMS either but was able to use complete susanoo (in the anime. Not sure if this was ever mentioned in manga).

Check out message #27.
If you still have questions then ask.
And I will not repeat this again but kakashi is neither a blood related brother of obito nor a uchiha.
If you think that kakashi access to EMS because they have great bonds, then can I ask you that when madara explained how saringan work he himself said that you can only access EMS by transplanting your blood related sibling eyes in yourself.
It means madara doesn't know how saringan work or auther just failed to explain how saringan works.
And as for indra, he uses perfect susanoo after accessing EMS.

Sep 8, 2021 3:57 AM

#28

uditsinghraghuva

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Jun 2021

13

I like the character but it's highly overrated , like he died in pain battle which was pretty stupid ,for being genius and all, Show always claimed that Kakashi can use 1000 jutsu but he never used in a single battle , the only enemy he defeated was zabuza , most of the stuff related to Kakashi is not a loop hole but rather stupid, as per loop hole he should have gone blind a long time ago for overusing that sharingan , like he used it in very single battle , I also felt that after losing sharingan , Kakashi should have not been the hokage as he was already week with the sharingan .

Sep 8, 2021 4:03 AM

#29

Zhre

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Jul 2020

26

VolKur said:

Zhre said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t you just Need the normal Sharingan not Ems because itachi also used susanoo in the fight against sasuke and he doesn’t have ems

There are three stages of susanoo.
First stage you only need mangekyo saringan.
And your susanoo will look like this

It's an incomplete susanoo.

Second stage you need a EMS. Not necessarily you can access this susanoo by MS only(top level MS).
And your susanoo will look like this

It's an complete susanoo.

Third stage you need a uchiha with great control over EMS.
And you susanoo will look like this

It's an Perfect Susanoo

And as I already explained earlier, you can't access perfect susanoo without EMS and to activate EMS you have to transplanting the Mangekyo saringan of an Uchiha with strong blood ties — ideally a sibling — thus awakening the so-called Eternal Mangekyo Saringan.
And obito is not blood related brother of kakashi, and kakashi is not an uchiha as well.
Any questions?

Ahh thank you my bad I thought itachis susanoo was complete my bad

Sep 8, 2021 4:08 AM

#30

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Jun 2019

230

VolKur said:

llolzcalai said:
First of all, that title is so deceiving 🤣 I was wondering how huge a plot hole it is. For one, even in perfect susanoo mode, Kakashi didn't do much during that last fight anyway.

As for the actual argument. I think your whole point is bound to the idea that perfect susanoo requires EMS. Was that ever established? As far as I remember, the only requirement is MS 🤔

My best guess why EMS would be assumed as a requirement for susanoo is because it takes time to even unlock susanoo, and an even longer time to master it. That means, by the time you master it, your eyes are most likely used up. For Kakashi, he didn't have to go through this whole mastery process haha it was just given.

And let me just bring up the other perfect susanoo user, Indra. I'm pretty sure that guy didn't have EMS either but was able to use complete susanoo (in the anime. Not sure if this was ever mentioned in manga).

Check out message #27.
If you still have questions then ask.
And I will not repeat this again but kakashi is neither a blood related brother of obito nor a uchiha.
If you think that kakashi access to EMS because they have great bonds, then can I ask you that when madara explained how saringan work he himself said that you can only access EMS by transplanting your blood related sibling eyes in yourself.
It means madara doesn't know how saringan work or auther just failed to explain how saringan works.
And as for indra, he uses perfect susanoo after accessing EMS.

I am aware of what it takes to get EMS. I'm not trying to argue that Obito / Kakashi had EMS because I know they didn't get EMS. I am also aware of the difference between regular susanoo and perfect susanoo. Only Madara / Sasuke / Indra / Kakashi had the perfect one.

The only thing I'm questioning is the criteria that "EMS is a requirement" for perfect susanoo. Because I remember MS being the only criteria for susanoo, perfect or imperfect.

For Indra, if you say he got EMS, it means he got Ashura's eye. I remember him fighting against Ashura using his perfect susanoo. And at that time, Ashura had both his eyes.

"To keep enduring, no matter what, until things come to pass...perhaps that's what it means to be a ninja." - Uchiha Sasuke

Sep 8, 2021 4:31 AM

#31

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Jul 2018

561862

llolzcalai said:

VolKur said:

Check out message #27.
If you still have questions then ask.
And I will not repeat this again but kakashi is neither a blood related brother of obito nor a uchiha.
If you think that kakashi access to EMS because they have great bonds, then can I ask you that when madara explained how saringan work he himself said that you can only access EMS by transplanting your blood related sibling eyes in yourself.
It means madara doesn't know how saringan work or auther just failed to explain how saringan works.
And as for indra, he uses perfect susanoo after accessing EMS.

I am aware of what it takes to get EMS. I'm not trying to argue that Obito / Kakashi had EMS because I know they didn't get EMS. I am also aware of the difference between regular susanoo and perfect susanoo. Only Madara / Sasuke / Indra / Kakashi had the perfect one.

The only thing I'm questioning is the criteria that "EMS is a requirement" for perfect susanoo. Because I remember MS being the only criteria for susanoo, perfect or imperfect.

For Indra, if you say he got EMS, it means he got Ashura's eye. I remember him fighting against Ashura using his perfect susanoo. And at that time, Ashura had both his eyes.

Yeah, you are right about indra, my bad i didn't notice that.
And
My thoughts on kaguya otsutsuki character himlself and the whole otsutsuki clan are:-
I think introduction of kaguya and otsutsuki clan is the downhill of Naruto anime. This the reason that why I can only give Naruto a 9 out of 10.
And I think last battle team 7 vs kaguya is the biggest plot hole in the series. This fight just destroy the concept of power and chakra.

Sep 8, 2021 4:42 AM

#32

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Jun 2019

230

VolKur said:

llolzcalai said:

I am aware of what it takes to get EMS. I'm not trying to argue that Obito / Kakashi had EMS because I know they didn't get EMS. I am also aware of the difference between regular susanoo and perfect susanoo. Only Madara / Sasuke / Indra / Kakashi had the perfect one.

The only thing I'm questioning is the criteria that "EMS is a requirement" for perfect susanoo. Because I remember MS being the only criteria for susanoo, perfect or imperfect.

For Indra, if you say he got EMS, it means he got Ashura's eye. I remember him fighting against Ashura using his perfect susanoo. And at that time, Ashura had both his eyes.

Yeah, you are right about indra, my bad i didn't notice that.
And
My thoughts on kaguya otsutsuki character himlself and the whole otsutsuki clan are:-
I think introduction of kaguya and otsutsuki clan is the downhill of Naruto anime. This the reason that why I can only give Naruto a 9 out of 10.
And I think last battle team 7 vs kaguya is the biggest plot hole in the series. This fight just destroy the concept of power and chakra.

YES! OMG. I felt like the addition of the whole Otsusuki was not originally planned so it wasn't as smooth. Like Madara should have been the last villain, but they put in the Otsutsukis to have a way to bridge Naruto to Boruto XD

BTW, I did a bit more digging and found this from a fan translation of the 4th databook about the complete susanoo. (https://narutoversity.wordpress.com/fourth-databook-jutsu-files/) Here it named Madara as the only user of the complete body susanoo XD But they mention Sasuke on it too. I'd attach a screencap of the portion in the page but I couldn't figure out how to XD

"To keep enduring, no matter what, until things come to pass...perhaps that's what it means to be a ninja." - Uchiha Sasuke

Sep 8, 2021 5:24 AM

#33

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Jul 2018

561862

llolzcalai said:

VolKur said:

llolzcalai said:

VolKur said:

llolzcalai said:
First of all, that title is so deceiving 🤣 I was wondering how huge a plot hole it is. For one, even in perfect susanoo mode, Kakashi didn't do much during that last fight anyway.

As for the actual argument. I think your whole point is bound to the idea that perfect susanoo requires EMS. Was that ever established? As far as I remember, the only requirement is MS 🤔

My best guess why EMS would be assumed as a requirement for susanoo is because it takes time to even unlock susanoo, and an even longer time to master it. That means, by the time you master it, your eyes are most likely used up. For Kakashi, he didn't have to go through this whole mastery process haha it was just given.

And let me just bring up the other perfect susanoo user, Indra. I'm pretty sure that guy didn't have EMS either but was able to use complete susanoo (in the anime. Not sure if this was ever mentioned in manga).

Check out message #27.
If you still have questions then ask.
And I will not repeat this again but kakashi is neither a blood related brother of obito nor a uchiha.
If you think that kakashi access to EMS because they have great bonds, then can I ask you that when madara explained how saringan work he himself said that you can only access EMS by transplanting your blood related sibling eyes in yourself.
It means madara doesn't know how saringan work or auther just failed to explain how saringan works.
And as for indra, he uses perfect susanoo after accessing EMS.

I am aware of what it takes to get EMS. I'm not trying to argue that Obito / Kakashi had EMS because I know they didn't get EMS. I am also aware of the difference between regular susanoo and perfect susanoo. Only Madara / Sasuke / Indra / Kakashi had the perfect one.

The only thing I'm questioning is the criteria that "EMS is a requirement" for perfect susanoo. Because I remember MS being the only criteria for susanoo, perfect or imperfect.

For Indra, if you say he got EMS, it means he got Ashura's eye. I remember him fighting against Ashura using his perfect susanoo. And at that time, Ashura had both his eyes.

Yeah, you are right about indra, my bad i didn't notice that.
And
My thoughts on kaguya otsutsuki character himlself and the whole otsutsuki clan are:-
I think introduction of kaguya and otsutsuki clan is the downhill of Naruto anime. This the reason that why I can only give Naruto a 9 out of 10.
And I think last battle team 7 vs kaguya is the biggest plot hole in the series. This fight just destroy the concept of power and chakra.

YES! OMG. I felt like the addition of the whole Otsusuki was not originally planned so it wasn't as smooth. Like Madara should have been the last villain, but they put in the Otsutsukis to have a way to bridge Naruto to Boruto XD

BTW, I did a bit more digging and found this from a fan translation of the 4th databook about the complete susanoo. (https://narutoversity.wordpress.com/fourth-databook-jutsu-files/) Here it named Madara as the only user of the complete body susanoo XD But they mention Sasuke on it too. I'd attach a screencap of the portion in the page but I couldn't figure out how to XD

Well masashi kisimoto should never have focused on boruto because of that not only did he destroyed the 4th great ninja war ending, he also made the worse possible sequel of naruto.
Boruto is getting better as new chapters are coming but boruto doesn't focus on main theme of naruto that is training, chakra fight or realistic emotion.

Sep 8, 2021 5:52 AM

#34

Offline

Jun 2019

230

VolKur said:

llolzcalai said:

VolKur said:

llolzcalai said:

VolKur said:

llolzcalai said:
First of all, that title is so deceiving 🤣 I was wondering how huge a plot hole it is. For one, even in perfect susanoo mode, Kakashi didn't do much during that last fight anyway.

As for the actual argument. I think your whole point is bound to the idea that perfect susanoo requires EMS. Was that ever established? As far as I remember, the only requirement is MS 🤔

My best guess why EMS would be assumed as a requirement for susanoo is because it takes time to even unlock susanoo, and an even longer time to master it. That means, by the time you master it, your eyes are most likely used up. For Kakashi, he didn't have to go through this whole mastery process haha it was just given.

And let me just bring up the other perfect susanoo user, Indra. I'm pretty sure that guy didn't have EMS either but was able to use complete susanoo (in the anime. Not sure if this was ever mentioned in manga).

Check out message #27.
If you still have questions then ask.
And I will not repeat this again but kakashi is neither a blood related brother of obito nor a uchiha.
If you think that kakashi access to EMS because they have great bonds, then can I ask you that when madara explained how saringan work he himself said that you can only access EMS by transplanting your blood related sibling eyes in yourself.
It means madara doesn't know how saringan work or auther just failed to explain how saringan works.
And as for indra, he uses perfect susanoo after accessing EMS.

I am aware of what it takes to get EMS. I'm not trying to argue that Obito / Kakashi had EMS because I know they didn't get EMS. I am also aware of the difference between regular susanoo and perfect susanoo. Only Madara / Sasuke / Indra / Kakashi had the perfect one.

The only thing I'm questioning is the criteria that "EMS is a requirement" for perfect susanoo. Because I remember MS being the only criteria for susanoo, perfect or imperfect.

For Indra, if you say he got EMS, it means he got Ashura's eye. I remember him fighting against Ashura using his perfect susanoo. And at that time, Ashura had both his eyes.

Yeah, you are right about indra, my bad i didn't notice that.
And
My thoughts on kaguya otsutsuki character himlself and the whole otsutsuki clan are:-
I think introduction of kaguya and otsutsuki clan is the downhill of Naruto anime. This the reason that why I can only give Naruto a 9 out of 10.
And I think last battle team 7 vs kaguya is the biggest plot hole in the series. This fight just destroy the concept of power and chakra.

YES! OMG. I felt like the addition of the whole Otsusuki was not originally planned so it wasn't as smooth. Like Madara should have been the last villain, but they put in the Otsutsukis to have a way to bridge Naruto to Boruto XD

BTW, I did a bit more digging and found this from a fan translation of the 4th databook about the complete susanoo. (https://narutoversity.wordpress.com/fourth-databook-jutsu-files/) Here it named Madara as the only user of the complete body susanoo XD But they mention Sasuke on it too. I'd attach a screencap of the portion in the page but I couldn't figure out how to XD

Well masashi kisimoto should never have focused on boruto because of that not only did he destroyed the 4th great ninja war ending, he also made the worse possible sequel of naruto.
Boruto is getting better as new chapters are coming but boruto doesn't focus on main theme of naruto that is training, chakra fight or realistic emotion.

True true. I guess there's not much he can he if that's what the publisher asked for 😅 I'm still giving Boruto a chance though XD

"To keep enduring, no matter what, until things come to pass...perhaps that's what it means to be a ninja." - Uchiha Sasuke

Sep 8, 2021 6:00 AM

#35

Offline

Jul 2018

561862

llolzcalai said:

VolKur said:

llolzcalai said:

VolKur said:

llolzcalai said:

VolKur said:

llolzcalai said:
First of all, that title is so deceiving 🤣 I was wondering how huge a plot hole it is. For one, even in perfect susanoo mode, Kakashi didn't do much during that last fight anyway.

As for the actual argument. I think your whole point is bound to the idea that perfect susanoo requires EMS. Was that ever established? As far as I remember, the only requirement is MS 🤔

My best guess why EMS would be assumed as a requirement for susanoo is because it takes time to even unlock susanoo, and an even longer time to master it. That means, by the time you master it, your eyes are most likely used up. For Kakashi, he didn't have to go through this whole mastery process haha it was just given.

And let me just bring up the other perfect susanoo user, Indra. I'm pretty sure that guy didn't have EMS either but was able to use complete susanoo (in the anime. Not sure if this was ever mentioned in manga).

Check out message #27.
If you still have questions then ask.
And I will not repeat this again but kakashi is neither a blood related brother of obito nor a uchiha.
If you think that kakashi access to EMS because they have great bonds, then can I ask you that when madara explained how saringan work he himself said that you can only access EMS by transplanting your blood related sibling eyes in yourself.
It means madara doesn't know how saringan work or auther just failed to explain how saringan works.
And as for indra, he uses perfect susanoo after accessing EMS.

I am aware of what it takes to get EMS. I'm not trying to argue that Obito / Kakashi had EMS because I know they didn't get EMS. I am also aware of the difference between regular susanoo and perfect susanoo. Only Madara / Sasuke / Indra / Kakashi had the perfect one.

The only thing I'm questioning is the criteria that "EMS is a requirement" for perfect susanoo. Because I remember MS being the only criteria for susanoo, perfect or imperfect.

For Indra, if you say he got EMS, it means he got Ashura's eye. I remember him fighting against Ashura using his perfect susanoo. And at that time, Ashura had both his eyes.

Yeah, you are right about indra, my bad i didn't notice that.
And
My thoughts on kaguya otsutsuki character himlself and the whole otsutsuki clan are:-
I think introduction of kaguya and otsutsuki clan is the downhill of Naruto anime. This the reason that why I can only give Naruto a 9 out of 10.
And I think last battle team 7 vs kaguya is the biggest plot hole in the series. This fight just destroy the concept of power and chakra.

YES! OMG. I felt like the addition of the whole Otsusuki was not originally planned so it wasn't as smooth. Like Madara should have been the last villain, but they put in the Otsutsukis to have a way to bridge Naruto to Boruto XD

BTW, I did a bit more digging and found this from a fan translation of the 4th databook about the complete susanoo. (https://narutoversity.wordpress.com/fourth-databook-jutsu-files/) Here it named Madara as the only user of the complete body susanoo XD But they mention Sasuke on it too. I'd attach a screencap of the portion in the page but I couldn't figure out how to XD

Well masashi kisimoto should never have focused on boruto because of that not only did he destroyed the 4th great ninja war ending, he also made the worse possible sequel of naruto.
Boruto is getting better as new chapters are coming but boruto doesn't focus on main theme of naruto that is training, chakra fight or realistic emotion.

True true. I guess there's not much he can he if that's what the publisher asked for 😅 I'm still giving Boruto a chance though XD

I'm not watching anime but I'm reading manga and completed all 61 chapters, few days ago I even bough boruto and naruto volume 1 physical copies(idk why but I bought them)!!

Sep 8, 2021 7:03 AM

#36

M_A_R_K

Offline

Dec 2020

199

immanoj said:

MARKfeni said:
Tobi did have many eyes with sharingan in his posess. We see that when sasuke transplanted itachi's eye.I think obito took fugaku's eye(as fagaku uchiha also have the MS)and transplanted in himself.In this way obito got access to perfect susanoo but as he didn’t have both eyes he didn’t got the chance to use it. At last he gave it to Kakashi temporarily by the help of his kamui and some chakra he left.

This is more reliable theory... Bcoz tobi did have access to number of Sharingan eyeballs and he did use the Kamui more efficiently. Its most probable that Tobi possessed EMS than normal MS bcoz he didn't worry about overusing his eye like Itachi did and Sasuke did before his EMS.

yeah it is the theory which writer masashi left us to discover in our own way and it is fun too😅

Sep 8, 2021 7:04 AM

#37

M_A_R_K

Offline

Dec 2020

199

VolKur said:

Zhre said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t you just Need the normal Sharingan not Ems because itachi also used susanoo in the fight against sasuke and he doesn’t have ems

There are three stages of susanoo.
First stage you only need mangekyo saringan.
And your susanoo will look like this

It's an incomplete susanoo.

Second stage you need a EMS. Not necessarily you can access this susanoo by MS only(top level MS).
And your susanoo will look like this

It's an complete susanoo.

Third stage you need a uchiha with great control over EMS.
And you susanoo will look like this

It's an Perfect Susanoo

And as I already explained earlier, you can't access perfect susanoo without EMS and to activate EMS you have to transplanting the Mangekyo saringan of an Uchiha with strong blood ties — ideally a sibling — thus awakening the so-called Eternal Mangekyo Saringan.
And obito is not blood related brother of kakashi, and kakashi is not an uchiha as well.
Any questions?

Ok how did you insert the pictures?

Sep 8, 2021 7:06 AM

#38

Offline

Jul 2018

561862

MARKfeni said:

VolKur said:

There are three stages of susanoo.
First stage you only need mangekyo saringan.
And your susanoo will look like this

It's an incomplete susanoo.

Second stage you need a EMS. Not necessarily you can access this susanoo by MS only(top level MS).
And your susanoo will look like this

It's an complete susanoo.

Third stage you need a uchiha with great control over EMS.
And you susanoo will look like this

It's an Perfect Susanoo

And as I already explained earlier, you can't access perfect susanoo without EMS and to activate EMS you have to transplanting the Mangekyo saringan of an Uchiha with strong blood ties — ideally a sibling — thus awakening the so-called Eternal Mangekyo Saringan.
And obito is not blood related brother of kakashi, and kakashi is not an uchiha as well.
Any questions?

Ok how did you insert the pictures?

Just use these BBC code "[img"&"[/img]" put the url of any image between them.

removed-userSep 8, 2021 7:12 AM

Sep 8, 2021 11:50 AM

#39

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Jan 2021

5

You don't necessarily need eternal mangekyou to form a perfect susanoo

Sep 8, 2021 2:37 PM

#40

Spiffy_Official

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Apr 2021

394

Voilaanime said:
I don't understand why does kakashi has a sharinghan in the first place, as is has to be with uchiha clan. Can anybody explain.

have you even watched naruto

Tokyo ghoul is a great manga with a trash anime adaptation

Sep 8, 2021 6:00 PM

#41

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Jul 2018

561862

insanechicken777 said:
You don't necessarily need eternal mangekyou to form a perfect susanoo

You should watch naruto again or read the data book or search on google, you will understand.

Sep 8, 2021 6:56 PM

#42

Offline

Jan 2021

5

VolKur said:

insanechicken777 said:
You don't necessarily need eternal mangekyou to form a perfect susanoo

You should watch naruto again or read the data book or search on google, you will understand.

I have, I double checked it doesn't say anywhere that u need eternal mangekyo

Sep 8, 2021 7:02 PM

#43

Voila_

Offline

Mar 2021

285

nonofyourbeeswax said:

Voilaanime said:
I don't understand why does kakashi has a sharinghan in the first place, as is has to be with uchiha clan. Can anybody explain.

have you even watched naruto

Yeah I watched Naruto, but I was back in 2018. I forgot many things, I think I should rewatch it again.

Sep 8, 2021 7:03 PM

#44

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Jan 2021

5

VolKur said:

insanechicken777 said:
You don't necessarily need eternal mangekyou to form a perfect susanoo

You should watch naruto again or read the data book or search on google, you will understand.

take Indra otsutsuki for example, he didn't need an eternal mangekyou yet he had a perfect susanoo

Sep 8, 2021 7:43 PM

#45

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Jul 2018

561862

insanechicken777 said:

VolKur said:

You should watch naruto again or read the data book or search on google, you will understand.

take Indra otsutsuki for example, he didn't need an eternal mangekyou yet he had a perfect susanoo

Indra is the only character who used perfect susanoo with MS.
Masashi kisimoto himself never clearly explained just how saringan work properly, and what I'm implying is kakashi can't use susanoo because he's not a uchiha.

Sep 8, 2021 8:04 PM

#46

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Jan 2021

5

VolKur said:

insanechicken777 said:

take Indra otsutsuki for example, he didn't need an eternal mangekyou yet he had a perfect susanoo

Indra is the only character who used perfect susanoo with MS.
Masashi kisimoto himself never clearly explained just how saringan work properly, and what I'm implying is kakashi can't use susanoo because he's not a uchiha.

yeah so it's not a necessary condition to have EMS. Those who do possess EMS have better control over their susanoo.

Sep 8, 2021 8:08 PM

#47

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Jul 2018

561862

insanechicken777 said:

VolKur said:

Indra is the only character who used perfect susanoo with MS.
Masashi kisimoto himself never clearly explained just how saringan work properly, and what I'm implying is kakashi can't use susanoo because he's not a uchiha.

yeah so it's not a necessary condition to have EMS. Those who do possess EMS have better control over their susanoo.

Yeah, I think you are right.

Sep 8, 2021 8:09 PM

#48