lornatalks said: Eh, I'd say Tsunade is sexualised to a degree but she's also an adult. The women Jiraiya peeps on also count. However, none of the underage characters are sexualised and also all wear sensible outfits. Only 2 or 3 jokes about her big boobs in 700 episodes and that's all, wouldn't really count it as sexualizing her character. |
SoldierDream said: lornatalks said: Eh, I'd say Tsunade is sexualised to a degree but she's also an adult. The women Jiraiya peeps on also count. However, none of the underage characters are sexualised and also all wear sensible outfits. Only 2 or 3 jokes about her big boobs in 700 episodes and that's all, wouldn't really count it as sexualizing her character. I don't know, a 50 year old but she conveniently looks young and has breasts so huge that she probably has a deformed spine. It's not just about the jokes, it's general presentation too. But again, to a degree. There is obviously more to her character than just that (hell, she is one of the few women that get an actual character arc) and there is nothing inherently wrong with how she is portrayed. Naruto in general is pretty good about this stuff. |
Scordolo said: I also have Attack on titan as an example. Tirihas said: Sure it's a nice list. Take out Dr. Stone, Naruto, Digimon, AssClass and Death note though. I've never watched Naruto,Assassination classroom but how tf does Digimon and Death note oversexualize females?Especially Digimon it's literally a kid's show.I can understand Dr stone cuz it' shows a couple of close up Beasts shots but we can't really count it as it doesn't ruin any crucial moment of any scene also those scene appear only a couple of seconds that's it.I guess you misunderstood the meaning of "Oversexualizing". SoldierDream said: Tirihas said: If you consider Bulma flashing Roshi in Dragon ball "innocent" I don't want to know what you consider "indecent" lol. It's innocent because the general tone of the series is innocent. Why? Where's the female sexualization in these series? Please don't tell me you consider sexy jutsu as female sexualization. It's just a dumb joke to adults from pre-teens. So I'd like to clarify something. I disagree with OP that JJK is the only shonen that doesn't sexualize it's female characters. Having said that however, y'all seriously don't recognize the sexualization in those series? Dr. Stone's author is Boichi. His females vs his males have always had pretty clear differences lol. But if you really need a clear example compare Charlotte and Stanley. For AssClass I guess we're going to ignore Bitch-sensei? For Death Note, Misa? I'll even give you a freebie and ignore Kiyomi . While the sexy justu is dumb fanservice it "technically" doesn't sexualize the actual female characters in the show. For Naruto I was focusing more about Tsunade, but the annoying focus on her tits mainly comes from her anime design and fillers so I'll give you that one. Well @Scordolo despite being a kids franchise as @SoldierDream helpfully brought up there's the "Sexy Dynamite" scene from Digimon Frontier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGDz8YWpw-w Aside from that, female digimon have been sexualized. Since we already mentioned it, let's take the example from Season 4 Frontier. Compare Zoe's digimon forms(the only girl) to the other main characters. Obviously this isn't the case for female digimon designs "overall" since Digimon is a decades old multi-media franchise with multiple designers and directors, but it gets especially egregrious in later seasons like Xros Wars. |
| I'm guessing you haven't watched much shounen? there are plenty of shounen series that don't sexualize female characters. |
| @Tirihas you never gave me a clear answer for Assassination classroom,Death note and Dr stone. So having Misa in Death note is oversexualization?Are you okay? |
 Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
Scordolo said: @Tirihas you never gave me a clear answer for Assassination classroom,Death note and Dr stone. So having Misa in Death note is oversexualization?Are you okay? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GoroD7uFC3A/hqdefault.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/236x/1c/a1/81/1ca181f4bfe4fdb2ffeee054ba730f3b--hunting-misa.jpg Misa does have some pretty suggestive scenes in Death Note, but personally I think it's still acceptable... it's not dehumanising her or basically reducing her to a wank-subject. Anyway I think this thread looks like a response to my original one, I must emphasise I was referring to BATTLE shounen. Assasination Classroom, Death Note and Doctor Stone are not strictly battle shounen. They're shounen, sure, but not battle shounen. |
Scordolo said: @Tirihas you never gave me a clear answer for Assassination classroom,Death note and Dr stone. So having Misa in Death note is oversexualization?Are you okay? ShanAsuna said: Scordolo said: @Tirihas you never gave me a clear answer for Assassination classroom,Death note and Dr stone. So having Misa in Death note is oversexualization?Are you okay? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GoroD7uFC3A/hqdefault.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/236x/1c/a1/81/1ca181f4bfe4fdb2ffeee054ba730f3b--hunting-misa.jpg Misa does have some pretty suggestive scenes in Death Note, but personally I think it's still acceptable... it's not dehumanising her or basically reducing her to a wank-subject. Anyway I think this thread looks like a response to my original one, I must emphasise I was referring to BATTLE shounen. Assasination Classroom, Death Note and Doctor Stone are not strictly battle shounen. They're shounen, sure, but not battle shounen. You see that? That was 5 seconds of googling "Misa Amane fanservice" It's somehow my fault you're too lazy to google the examples I gave? |
ShanAsuna said: Scordolo said: @Tirihas you never gave me a clear answer for Assassination classroom,Death note and Dr stone. So having Misa in Death note is oversexualization?Are you okay? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GoroD7uFC3A/hqdefault.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/236x/1c/a1/81/1ca181f4bfe4fdb2ffeee054ba730f3b--hunting-misa.jpg Misa does have some pretty suggestive scenes in Death Note, but personally I think it's still acceptable... it's not dehumanising her or basically reducing her to a wank-subject. Anyway I think this thread looks like a response to my original one, I must emphasise I was referring to BATTLE shounen. Assasination Classroom, Death Note and Doctor Stone are not strictly battle shounen. They're shounen, sure, but not battle shounen. Lol you wouldn't even notice the fanservice unless if someone points it out so Misa doesn't count. |
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Scordolo said: ShanAsuna said: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GoroD7uFC3A/hqdefault.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/236x/1c/a1/81/1ca181f4bfe4fdb2ffeee054ba730f3b--hunting-misa.jpg Misa does have some pretty suggestive scenes in Death Note, but personally I think it's still acceptable... it's not dehumanising her or basically reducing her to a wank-subject. Anyway I think this thread looks like a response to my original one, I must emphasise I was referring to BATTLE shounen. Assasination Classroom, Death Note and Doctor Stone are not strictly battle shounen. They're shounen, sure, but not battle shounen. Lol you wouldn't even notice the fanservice unless if someone points it out so Misa doesn't count. I'd say she's borderline... but in any case, I stand by my original post - JJK is refreshing because it's one of the rare BATTLE shounens that don't oversexualise its female characters |
| I don't really care one way or the other, just so long as these elements make sense or aren't too out of place within the context of the show. The more sexualized your female characters are, the more they're going to be viewed primarily as a sexual fantasy, and as characters, second. So, it's ironic that feminists are so adamantly opposed to the sexualization of female characters, because it's basically an admission that women can't be treated as fully human if they're being sexualized, but then feminism has only really cared about sex-positivity when it's in regard to how women choose to dress or act, and not how men perceive them to be. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
LostSpectre said: I don't really care one way or the other, just so long as these elements make sense or aren't too out of place within the context of the show. The more sexualized your female characters are, the more they're going to be viewed primarily as a sexual fantasy, and as characters, second. So, it's ironic that feminists are so adamantly opposed to the sexualization of female characters, because it's basically an admission that women can't be treated as fully human if they're being sexualized, but then feminism has only really cared about sex-positivity when it's in regard to how women choose to dress or act, and not how men perceive them to be. I agree with most of what you said until you started flaming feminists. Look, I know feminism has gotten a little wild in the west, but there are moderate feminists, ok? Just like how there are moderate people on the Left and moderate people on the Right, and they generally get along. Moderate feminists (such as myself) just don't want to see fanservice that just dehumanises the character - like the character has no personality, no goals, nothing anymore... it's just solely there, designed as a wank-subject. Come on, if you're a normal person, you're going to think that's stupid and unnecessary. |
ShanAsuna said: There's a reason that if you go into "feminist" communities the vast majority of those people will be radical, and I'm not talking about some buzzword for people who think men should all die, I'm talking about the legitimate classification of radical feminist theory. They simply have no need to call themselves radical anymore, because they are the established standard now. The other kind of feminism that just thinks having the same laws and opportunities, will end sexism, is largely symbolic, that's not what true feminism is in the modern age. These people have dangerous, hypocritical ideas about sex and equality. I agree with most of what you said until you started flaming feminists. Look, I know feminism has gotten a little wild in the west, but there are moderate feminists, ok? Just like how there are moderate people on the Left and moderate people on the Right, and they generally get along. Moderate feminists (such as myself) just don't want to see fanservice that just dehumanises the character - like the character has no personality, no goals, nothing anymore... it's just solely there, designed as a wank-subject. Come on, if you're a normal person, you're going to think that's stupid and unnecessary. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
LostSpectre said: ShanAsuna said: There's a reason that if you go into "feminist" communities the vast majority of those people will be radical, and I'm not talking about some buzzword for people who think men should all die, I'm talking about the legitimate classification of radical feminist theory. They simply have no need to call themselves radical anymore, because they are the established standard now. The other kind of feminism that just thinks having the same laws and opportunities, will end sexism, is largely symbolic, that's not what true feminism is in the modern age. These people have dangerous, hypocritical ideas about sex and equality. I agree with most of what you said until you started flaming feminists. Look, I know feminism has gotten a little wild in the west, but there are moderate feminists, ok? Just like how there are moderate people on the Left and moderate people on the Right, and they generally get along. Moderate feminists (such as myself) just don't want to see fanservice that just dehumanises the character - like the character has no personality, no goals, nothing anymore... it's just solely there, designed as a wank-subject. Come on, if you're a normal person, you're going to think that's stupid and unnecessary. I'm an old-school feminist. I just want to celebrate the victory of the original feminists, the suffragettes who fought for us and got us voting rights, who gave us the opportunity to control our own destinies. Now I just want small victories like not getting harassed in the workplace, not being passed over for promotions because I might get pregnant and not having to watch animes where the women are all airheads that flash their panties, enjoy getting groped and have inhuman-sized boobs. |
ShanAsuna said: Hey, I have nothing against you if you're more along the lines of a liberal feminist, but we're not going to agree that the driving force behind modern feminism and feminist activism isn't based heavily in radical theory. As for your anime related quandaries, are you sure we aren't just talking about ecchi shows, because that sounds a lot like ecchi shows. lol I'm an old-school feminist. I just want to celebrate the victory of the original feminists, the suffragettes who fought for us and got us voting rights, who gave us the opportunity to control our own destinies. Now I just want small victories like not getting harassed in the workplace, not being passed over for promotions because I might get pregnant and not having to watch animes where the women are all airheads that flash their panties, enjoy getting groped and have inhuman-sized boobs. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
| Ah, I see the boogeyman of spooky scary feminism has finally made its appearance. |
LostSpectre said: ShanAsuna said: Hey, I have nothing against you if you're more along the lines of a liberal feminist, but we're not going to agree that the driving force behind modern feminism and feminist activism isn't based heavily in radical theory. As for your anime related quandaries, are you sure we aren't just talking about ecchi shows, because that sounds a lot like ecchi shows. lol I'm an old-school feminist. I just want to celebrate the victory of the original feminists, the suffragettes who fought for us and got us voting rights, who gave us the opportunity to control our own destinies. Now I just want small victories like not getting harassed in the workplace, not being passed over for promotions because I might get pregnant and not having to watch animes where the women are all airheads that flash their panties, enjoy getting groped and have inhuman-sized boobs. It's not man, sadly it's not confined to ecchi shows. Just look at Mushoku Tensei. It's generally a good show, but *sigh* it still can't escape the trope of a horny MC who's groping and basically harassing every female character he encounters. There are a thousand shows out there with the precise same formula. |
ShanAsuna said: That's not an "ecchi" show, because it isn't an excuse to have a show primarily centered around sexual content, like a High School DxD, but it is a show that should probably have an ecchi tag. It's written right into the story, and is a significant aspect of the character's background/personality. I don't think I would describe any character in that show in the way you did, though, other than a few sexualized designs, I didn't get the impression any character existed purely as fanservice, and had no other merits, personality, etc. I don't deny there's plenty of shows that sexualize female characters, just not to the extent it ruins them as characters, even ecchi show characters can still be decently written or fleshed out. It can inhibit a show where you expect me to take a character very seriously or feel an emotional attachment to, though. It's not man, sadly it's not confined to ecchi shows. Just look at Mushoku Tensei. It's generally a good show, but *sigh* it still can't escape the trope of a horny MC who's groping and basically harassing every female character he encounters. There are a thousand shows out there with the precise same formula. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
LostSpectre said: ShanAsuna said: That's not an "ecchi" show, because it isn't an excuse to have a show primarily centered around sexual content, like a High School DxD, but it is a show that should probably have an ecchi tag. It's written right into the story, and is a significant aspect of the character's background/personality. I don't think I would describe any character in that show in the way you did, though, other than a few sexualized designs, I didn't get the impression any character existed purely as fanservice, and had no other merits, personality, etc. I don't deny there's plenty of shows that sexualize female characters, just not to the extent it ruins them as characters, even ecchi show characters can still be decently written or fleshed out. It can inhibit a show where you expect me to take a character very seriously or feel an emotional attachment to, though. It's not man, sadly it's not confined to ecchi shows. Just look at Mushoku Tensei. It's generally a good show, but *sigh* it still can't escape the trope of a horny MC who's groping and basically harassing every female character he encounters. There are a thousand shows out there with the precise same formula. Personally, I'd prefer to be able to enjoy fantasy, adventure and drama tagged animes like Mushoku Tensei without having to deal with the "ecchi tropes". True, the characters in Mushoku Tensei aren't completely ruined to the point of becoming "mindless wank-subjects", but they have been reduced to ecchi trope heroines. For example, Eris could have been a lot more interesting as a character if she wasn't an ecchi trope tsundere. And Lilia's backstory with Paul and her whole persona of a thirsty maid... like, really? You see how empty these characters are? They're just tropes, they're not fully fleshed out characters who have goals and motivations. It's important to have "real" characters, with believable personalities, goals and motivations because they'll move the story forward in an organic way, rather than being chess pieces/tropes that are placed in a convenient/conventional position to fit a cookie-cutter narrative. |
ShanAsuna said: It is tagged ecchi on Anidb and has a 2/3 star rating, which is somewhat significant. It should probably be tagged on MAL as well, but then people might think it's an ecchi show and not just a show with a bunch of ecchi elements, IDK.. it's kind of confusing, honestly. I don't disagree with you that the characters are somewhat shallow and can be stereotypes, but I don't find many generic sorts of anime that actually break this mold, unless they are given proper development, and in a more serious tone than your usual comedy/shonen. I enjoyed the show in terms of the fantasy elements, I don't mind the pervy stuff but, it's at least a little creepy, even for anime, and I didn't expect much in the way of strong characters/development, because that's more or less what I thought I would get. I could be biased, but I don't expect modern anime to deliver much in terms of compelling story telling and great characterization, compared to older anime, but there's always exceptions. Personally, I'd prefer to be able to enjoy fantasy, adventure and drama tagged animes like Mushoku Tensei without having to deal with the "ecchi tropes". True, the characters in Mushoku Tensei aren't completely ruined to the point of becoming "mindless wank-subjects", but they have been reduced to ecchi trope heroines. For example, Eris could have been a lot more interesting as a character if she wasn't an ecchi trope tsundere. And Lilia's backstory with Paul and her whole persona of a thirsty maid... like, really? You see how empty these characters are? They're just tropes, they're not fully fleshed out characters who have goals and motivations. It's important to have "real" characters, with believable personalities, goals and motivations because they'll move the story forward in an organic way, rather than being chess pieces/tropes that are placed in a convenient/conventional positions to fit a cookie-cutter narrative. |
LostSpectreMar 25, 2021 7:39 AM
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
LostSpectre said: ShanAsuna said: It is tagged ecchi on Anidb and has a 2/3 star rating, which is somewhat significant. It should probably be tagged on MAL as well, but then people might think it's an ecchi show and not just a show with a bunch of ecchi elements, IDK.. it's kind of confusing, honestly. I don't disagree with you that the characters are somewhat shallow and can be stereotypes, but I don't find many generic sorts of anime that actually break this mold, unless they are given proper development, and in a more serious tone than your usual comedy/shonen. I enjoyed the show in terms of the fantasy elements, I don't mind the pervy stuff but, it's at least a little weird, even for anime, and I didn't expect much in the way of strong characters/development, because that's more or less what I expected. I could be biased, but I don't expect modern anime to deliver much in terms of compelling story telling and great characterization, compared to older anime, but there's always exceptions. Personally, I'd prefer to be able to enjoy fantasy, adventure and drama tagged animes like Mushoku Tensei without having to deal with the "ecchi tropes". True, the characters in Mushoku Tensei aren't completely ruined to the point of becoming "mindless wank-subjects", but they have been reduced to ecchi trope heroines. For example, Eris could have been a lot more interesting as a character if she wasn't an ecchi trope tsundere. And Lilia's backstory with Paul and her whole persona of a thirsty maid... like, really? You see how empty these characters are? They're just tropes, they're not fully fleshed out characters who have goals and motivations. It's important to have "real" characters, with believable personalities, goals and motivations because they'll move the story forward in an organic way, rather than being chess pieces/tropes that are placed in a convenient/conventional positions to fit a cookie-cutter narrative. I agree and that's why JJK is kind of a refreshing exception, especially because it's a battle shounen, where you'd expect the same ecchi tropes and stock characters to pop up again. But it just doesn't take the cookie-cutter route. |
| is there other popular shounen rn |
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ShanAsuna said: I might just watch too much ecchi (definitely) but I can't deny that sexual/fanservice elements can often make more "normal" shows seem less serious or dramatic, either because it's always played off in a juvenile way or because that's the conditioned response to seeing it over time. The comedy in anime can be incredibly simplistic and ridiculous, but fanservice that's used for comedy somehow carries a different weight to it. When it comes to sexualized outfits I suppose it depends on what the intention is, and whether we can easily recognize it, for example a short school skirt is so commonplace as to be ordinary, and I don't even think twice about seeing it.I agree and that's why JJK is kind of a refreshing exception, especially because it's a battle shounen, where you'd expect the same ecchi tropes and stock characters to pop up again. But it just doesn't take the cookie-cutter route. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
LostSpectre said: ShanAsuna said: I might just watch too much ecchi (definitely) but I can't deny that sexual/fanservice elements can often make more "normal" shows seem less serious or dramatic, either because it's always played off in a juvenile way or because that's the conditioned response to seeing it over time. The comedy in anime can be incredibly simplistic and ridiculous, but fanservice that's used for comedy somehow carries a different weight to it. When it comes to sexualized outfits I suppose it depends on what the intention is, and whether we can easily recognize it, for example a short school skirt is so commonplace as to be ordinary, and I don't even think twice about seeing it.I agree and that's why JJK is kind of a refreshing exception, especially because it's a battle shounen, where you'd expect the same ecchi tropes and stock characters to pop up again. But it just doesn't take the cookie-cutter route. I really think sexy characters =/= fanservice. For example, Haruhi Suzumiya has perfectly character-driven, plot-driven reasons why Haruhi and Mikuru are dressed in bunny suits, nurse uniforms and maid outfits. But I don't think it's brainless fanservice because it drives the plot, it is innovative comedy (not the generic ecchi tropes that have been re-used 5 million times that I can't even lift an eyebrow at a supposed-to-be-funny panty-shot/chest grope anymore), and it looks like an organic choice made by a believable character with well-fleshed out personalities, motivations and goals. |
ShanAsuna said: I think there's certainly an argument that there are many different types of fanservice, and some are much more blatant or off-putting than others. I don't think a sexy character/outfit has to be fanservice, but it depends on the execution, I wouldn't call any sexy characters in Monster "fanservice" it's just not that kind of show. I also don't really use the term at all for shows that are ecchi or where sexual elements are a significant enough part of the show as to not really be out of place. For better or worse, I would say that's somewhat where Mushoku Tensei falls for me. I really think sexy characters =/= fanservice. For example, Haruhi Suzumiya has perfectly character-driven, plot-driven reasons why Haruhi and Mikuru are dressed in bunny suits, nurse uniforms and maid outfits. But I don't think it's brainless fanservice because it drives the plot, it is innovative comedy (not the generic ecchi tropes that have been re-used 5 million times that I can't even lift an eyebrow at a supposed-to-be-funny panty-shot/chest grope anymore), and it looks like an organic choice made by a believable character with well-fleshed out personalities, motivations and goals. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
LostSpectre said: ShanAsuna said: I think there's certainly an argument that there are many different types of fanservice, and some are much more blatant or off-putting than others. I don't think a sexy character/outfit has to be fanservice, but it depends on the execution, I wouldn't call any sexy characters in Monster "fanservice" it's just not that kind of show. I also don't really use the term at all for shows that are ecchi or where sexual elements are a significant enough part of the show as to not really be out of place. For better or worse, I would say that's somewhat where Mushoku Tensei falls for me. I really think sexy characters =/= fanservice. For example, Haruhi Suzumiya has perfectly character-driven, plot-driven reasons why Haruhi and Mikuru are dressed in bunny suits, nurse uniforms and maid outfits. But I don't think it's brainless fanservice because it drives the plot, it is innovative comedy (not the generic ecchi tropes that have been re-used 5 million times that I can't even lift an eyebrow at a supposed-to-be-funny panty-shot/chest grope anymore), and it looks like an organic choice made by a believable character with well-fleshed out personalities, motivations and goals. Agree with most points, except the last one. Personally, I'd prefer shows like Mushoku Tensei to cut down on the ecchi elements. They have potential to become more than just another cookie-cutter "isekai", "battle shounen" that stuck to the same formula of: horny MC+stock female characters = predictable developments. |
ShanAsuna said: I didn't mean to imply they make the show better in any way, it mostly feels like a pointless ecchi/pedo gimmick (which surely has less of an audience today than when the LN was written), towards something that had the potential to be a truly good fantasy show, which will be inevitably hindered by the controversial ecchi/fanservice. I was just saying that the show is more or less trying to have moderate levels of ecchi, and therefore it's past the point of me calling it "fanservice" but that's just my semantic way of looking at it. I also hear that it may get even worse in terms of this stuff, but I'm no LN reader, just bits and pieces I picked up. Agree with most points, except the last one. Personally, I'd prefer shows like Mushoku Tensei to cut down on the ecchi elements. They have potential to become more than just another cookie-cutter "isekai", "battle shounen" that stuck to the same formula of: horny MC+stock female characters = predictable developments. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
LostSpectre said: ShanAsuna said: I didn't mean to imply they make the show better in any way, it mostly feels like a pointless ecchi/pedo gimmick (which surely has less of an audience today than when the LN was written), towards something that had the potential to be a truly good fantasy show, which will be inevitably hindered by the controversial ecchi/fanservice. I was just saying that the show is more or less trying to have moderate levels of ecchi, and therefore it's past the point of me calling it "fanservice" but that's just my semantic way of looking at it. I also hear that it may get even worse in terms of this stuff, but I'm no LN reader, just bits and pieces I picked up. Agree with most points, except the last one. Personally, I'd prefer shows like Mushoku Tensei to cut down on the ecchi elements. They have potential to become more than just another cookie-cutter "isekai", "battle shounen" that stuck to the same formula of: horny MC+stock female characters = predictable developments. Well, my rating for Mushoku Tensei is pretty much capped at 8 thanks to the cookie-cutter formula it's adopting. It's a decent show, but if it could have stepped outside the cookie cutter mould, it might have become something more... but well, if everyone is a game changer, then nobody is a game changer. Oh wells... |
Kaasfondue said: NGL that was savageYeah man let's ignore the borderline rape fetish in episode 1. Zoom-in on demon groping a schoolgirl's tits. Disgustang. Let's ignore our first introduction of Nobara in episode 2, we were treated to a zoom-in on her massive boobs. Sure, no nudity and completely covered, but emphasized on and clearly there. And the only reason the author didn't include fanservice is because his parents read the manga. His own words. If there's one thing JJK doesn't deserve its praise for, it's the handling of female characters. So overrated just because there are no fanservice shots and gags. |
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234Mannan said: Kaasfondue said: NGL that was savageYeah man let's ignore the borderline rape fetish in episode 1. Zoom-in on demon groping a schoolgirl's tits. Disgustang. Let's ignore our first introduction of Nobara in episode 2, we were treated to a zoom-in on her massive boobs. Sure, no nudity and completely covered, but emphasized on and clearly there. And the only reason the author didn't include fanservice is because his parents read the manga. His own words. If there's one thing JJK doesn't deserve its praise for, it's the handling of female characters. So overrated just because there are no fanservice shots and gags. Nah, the fact that he had to resort to a "zoom in" on a perfectly clothed Nobara as "fanservice" shows you how little fanservice JJK indulges in. Nobara is great, she's pretty, she's got a great figure that doesn't defy the rules of physics and human biology and she's not an airhead with the personality of a fleshlight (like many stock fanservice characters). I'll accept the point about the demon groping opening scene though, but that being the ONLY scene that could really be called "fanservice", I think it's actually a great troll move by Gege - "so you think this is just another cookie-cutter battle shounen with ecchi scenes every 5 minutes? Well, you thought wrong...." |
| Nobara acts like every other shounen MC. This is why I dislike her character. She is written as if she's the main protagonist while being irrelevant as hell compared to Itadori. Again GeGe has said himself the concept of Nobara is just "every shounen MC ever but female". |
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| FMA and HxH hardly ever did it and they're very old, they proved it wasn't necessary decades ago |
kiruaki said: definitely have to check out fmab, i heard amazing things about it Don't expect it to be the best anime ever and you'll love it |
Kaasfondue said: Nobara acts like every other shounen MC. This is why I dislike her character. She is written as if she's the main protagonist while being irrelevant as hell compared to Itadori. Again GeGe has said himself the concept of Nobara is just "every shounen MC ever but female". Lol just wait 3 hours. Borshta said: Tbh I don't really remember much and there might be but that holly scene isn't fanservice, for treatment he gotta do that, that bathroom scene idk if I will call that fanservice that was showing joseph's perversion and lisa lisa wasn't treated as fanservice, like we can't call every perverted instance as fanservice. And as you said that monkey shit was just traumatizing I don't think araki will use that as fanservice. Don't remember that jotaro scene. Overall if we're talking abt female characters(not males) I don't think they're oversexualized or something. And for fanservice I don't remember it, maybe cuz it wasn't intended as fanservice, or I didn't notice it unlike fire force or some others. Ehh they're definitely sexualized. Lisa Lisa in Part 2, Practically every female aside from Enyaba in Part 3 Yukako and Aya in Part 4, Trish in Part 5, Jolyne in Part 6, Lucy Steel in Part 7, Daiya in Part 8 |
TirihasMar 26, 2021 8:18 AM
Tirihas said: Kaasfondue said: Nobara acts like every other shounen MC. This is why I dislike her character. She is written as if she's the main protagonist while being irrelevant as hell compared to Itadori. Again GeGe has said himself the concept of Nobara is just "every shounen MC ever but female". Lol just wait 3 hours. Is this meant for me? I have a feeling this is meant for me. |
Kaasfondue said: Nobara acts like every other shounen MC. This is why I dislike her character. She is written as if she's the main protagonist while being irrelevant as hell compared to Itadori. Again GeGe has said himself the concept of Nobara is just "every shounen MC ever but female". Yea but you happen to be ok with every other shounen protagonist BUT Nobara... because????? Yea, you know what I'm about to say... btw, if you're going to respond to my post, please quote my post. I may have something to say in return. |
ShanAsuna said: Because she isn't the main protagonist??? Itadaori is our main. And they always completely overshadow their peers.Kaasfondue said: Nobara acts like every other shounen MC. This is why I dislike her character. She is written as if she's the main protagonist while being irrelevant as hell compared to Itadori. Again GeGe has said himself the concept of Nobara is just "every shounen MC ever but female". Yea but you happen to be ok with every other shounen protagonist BUT Nobara... because????? Yea, you know what I'm about to say... btw, if you're going to respond to my post, please quote my post. I may have something to say in return. The other female characters work better for me because they just have typical shounen backstories and motivations that side characters always get in a setting like this. Same as the male ones btw. Think about it this way. Out of everyone in JJK, only Itadori and Nobara come from backgrounds where fighting curses wasn't a thing. Both just randomly got powers and then got invited. It's the most typical shounen MC set-up. No Nobara is probably going to do something cool in today's episode. |
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Borshta said: Tirihas said: Ehh they're definitely sexualized. Lisa Lisa in Part 2, Practically every female aside from Enyaba in Part 3 Yukako and Aya in Part 4, Trish in Part 5, Jolyne in Part 6, Lucy Steel in Part 7, Daiya in Part 8 Now you're just going into the category of "women should look like men in anime", no none of them I think is out of proportion or sexualized. Like what are you even talking abt with trish and lisa lisa? how are they oversexualised? For Lisa-Lisa, there's the "Niccccce!" scene For Trish we literally see her nipple in the manga and the anime still kept the scene where Fugo and Mista ogle her tits and then Fugo falls into her chest. |
TirihasMar 26, 2021 8:57 AM
Borshta said: Yes but they aren't presented and written as main characters are they. If you want me to explain what I prefer, I'll use YYH as an example. In there both the main and second protagonist randomly unlock powers and are thrown into this new setting where they fight threats to the world, with one obviously being the prodigy and way stronger than the other. It's better handled there imo, because the dynamic ends up reflecting that and all of the cast jokes about it, the story doesn't treat the other as if he's just as badass and important, because that would never work if he's always overshadowed. It comes across as more self-aware.Kaasfondue said: Think about it this way. Out of everyone in JJK, only Itadori and Nobara come from backgrounds where fighting curses wasn't a thing. Both just randomly got powers and then got invited. It's the most typical shounen MC set-up. Um, except the sorcerers from 3 families everyone is like nobara, only those 3 families and some sub have line of sorcerers. Like nanami is the only sorcerer in his family. And this can be done either implicitly or explicitly. There was a moment with the kid being held hostage where she reflects a little on her uselessness. But still, she keeps being overshadowed by everyone yet continues rambling and acting and get momems like she's the main one. I guess it gets better further on then? |
KaasfondueMar 26, 2021 9:09 AM
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