Here we are go again

RobertBobert said:
I have nothing against shipping as a thing, it's not something that I can influence in any way, but it was pretty funny to find out that the years of MHA or Haikyuu did not teach people anything and shippers still sincerely hope that adaptation of this shonen will bring them canonical slasn and femslash ships.

Again, it's perfectly okay if people continue to ship characters in the new shonen too, it's already a classic. But to be honest, it continues to amaze me how people can't just have fun with it, instead continuing to deceive themselves with false hopes at every slightest opportunity.

Moosegoosegamer said:


I get what you mean but there’s always going to be people desperate enough to hold on to their ships so tight they want them to come to fruition. It’s just going to always be there. But hey, just part of the community I typically avoid

Tirihas said:
What brought this on?
If anything I've seen the opposite.
People start shipping characters like Nobara and Maki and you have people crawling out the woodwork to go: "I'm not saying you're wrong to ship them BUT-----

RobertBobert said:


Again, if you like this ship, it's up to you. BUT (lol) when people start arguing in all seriousness that Nobara is lesbian or that this ship has a chance of becoming canon, it's "a little" annoying. To such an extent that even ANN is trying to popularize this ship in any way. In moments like this, I immediately remember the hype around TodoMomo and how people tried hard to interpret Jiro in the same way.

@shownin Hah, the dude on ANN was already trying to make non-ironic interpretations that twins are lesbians based on this.

Tirihas said:

Honestly I subscribe to the Araki approach that if it's not confirmed it can exist as a sort of personal hidden meaning to the reader.
I mean after all you don't know what will happen in the story's future.
I feel like the author wouldn't have made Mai like girls or introduce her with Todo who says liking guys is fine too if they didn't intend for those implications to be interpreted.

RobertBobert said:


It reminds me of a case where Horikoshi said that his characters would not be gender stereotyped and people took it as "I will have a gay canon" lol.

@ttcchen Suffice it to recall how people stubbornly read Jiro and Kirishima as lesbian and gay, constantly pulling things out of context like breast envy of the former and bro admiration for Bakugou of the latter. It was also "very strong gay vibes" and people were breaking thousands of spears defending it on the internet. I've literally heard it all before, when people have argued to me why MomoJiro can become canon, lol. From the ridiculous ripping of scenes and words out of context to a semi-religious belief in any speculation possible. I can even predict how all this will start to become toxic when the author starts developing straight ships and like MHA JK gets its own version of MomoJiro vs TodoMomo with all that it implies.

As I said, this is just a repetition of the material already passed and people, in fact, deliberately step on the same rake again. Want to ship fanon ships? Okay, nobody forbids. But you are only kidding yourself again by making it personal.

Scordolo said:
Okay why is this in Jujutsu Kaisen subforums if it is about shipping in general?

MappaPrefersJJK said:
Oh please no, not this crap in the JJK forum...

@ttcchen I don't think that quote from the zenin member is really giving bi vibes since the guy who said it

RobertBobert said:

I find it funny that people read "she isn't girly girl" as "she queer" lol. Straight girls can't be socially awkward? Is every girl who does not conform to gender stereotypes a lesbian? I thought we weren't living in the 19th century.

Psychrome said:


People nowaday are just pretty fuck*d tbh x) as a not really girly girl myself, i often get people ask me "what are your pronouns" and sh*t like those, or if i'm les/bi when i'm just a straight cis girl who likes guys stuffs and doesn't dress girly... like, idk why they assume stuffs on people based on their personality/way to dress/things they like

I think it's pretty idiotic

RobertBobert said:


It reminds me of a case where Horikoshi said that his characters would not be gender stereotyped and people took it as "I will have a gay canon" lol.

@ttcchen Suffice it to recall how people stubbornly read Jiro and Kirishima as lesbian and gay, constantly pulling things out of context like breast envy of the former and bro admiration for Bakugou of the latter. It was also "very strong gay vibes" and people were breaking thousands of spears defending it on the internet. I've literally heard it all before, when people have argued to me why MomoJiro can become canon, lol. From the ridiculous ripping of scenes and words out of context to a semi-religious belief in any speculation possible. I can even predict how all this will start to become toxic when the author starts developing straight ships and like MHA JK gets its own version of MomoJiro vs TodoMomo with all that it implies.

As I said, this is just a repetition of the material already passed and people, in fact, deliberately step on the same rake again. Want to ship fanon ships? Okay, nobody forbids. But you are only kidding yourself again by making it personal.

Psychrome said:
It's not "because it's 2021" gay ships have always being there because of some fujoshis/fudanshis

Because being close friends automatically makes you gay in some people's mind, omitting the fact that, girls especially tend to act pretty "gay" with their close friends even if they're 100% straight

As "not knowing how to act like a woman" doesn't make you gay either being a tomboy is still a thing
Being a tomboy doesn't make you gay
As more feminine guys aren't obligatory gays

I think people like to imagine gay ships because that's what they fantasize about,nothing more

Psychrome said:


People nowaday are just pretty fuck*d tbh x) as a not really girly girl myself, i often get people ask me "what are your pronouns" and sh*t like those, or if i'm les/bi when i'm just a straight cis girl who likes guys stuffs and doesn't dress girly... like, idk why they assume stuffs on people based on their personality/way to dress/things they like

I think it's pretty idiotic

ttcchen said:
1. it's 2021

2. LGBTQ is more accepted than ever

3. shounen series having an entirely straight cast probably won't happen for much longer

4. characters like Mai and Maki have pretty strong bi vibes, like Mai liking the idol girl and Maki "doesn't know how to act like a woman" (direct quote from a zenin member in the manga)

5. so you can't say for certain that these characters are 100% straight and start getting pissed at people for wishing/headcanoning them as les/bi.

6. you can assume what you want, just like how others can assume what they want, and given the circumstances, it's not likely they're just coming up with assumptions and ships without any basis, so you can't fault them on that

7. regarding MHA and Haikyuu: none of the haikyuu characters have bi/gay vibes, so wishing they'd be canonly gay/bi is ridiculous. they can ship what they want, but they gotta accept the reality that Haikyuu boys are most likely straight. As for MHA, aside from Jirou who gives off bi vibes, all other characters seems to be straight, so I don't mind fans hoping MHA would give Jirou a femslash ship (cause it makes sense) but anyone other than her would be asking for the impossible.

IamVermillion said:


@ttcchen
I support most of your arguments, but not the seventh. Your statement, believe or not, is blatantly heteronormative. You may not want to hear this, but it really seems that you believe all characters who you don't get bi vibes from are strait. You're picking up on a few potentially bi females in these three animes, and (I could be wrong) this may be because you are a bi female, which is fine. However, using this as an excuse to say the rest of the characters are probably strait shows me you thought with a narrow, heteronormative mindset. No need to feel terrible, just try to learn. Broaden your mind. That's my suggestion anyway as a queer who intends to help keep the community in check.

ttcchen said:

I may have phrased it incorrectly. I meant none of the Haikyuu boys gave off LGBTQ vibes, so it doesnt makes sense to wish they're LGBTQ to the point of bothering the author about it. I don't know where you got it from, or why being heteronormative automatically makes you a bi female, but I'm neither of the two and not trying to be heteronormative either. For Jiro, I can understand why some may think she's LGBTQ and bother the author (not saying that's acceptable behavior), but other characters who don't give off LGBTQ vibes meant the author likely don't intend for them to be part of LGBTQ meaning it doesn't make sense to assume they are and hate on the author for not making their ship canon. (And PS yes i do know LGBTQ people irl don't always appear LGBTQ, but this is anime we're talking about, if the author want LGBTQ representation, they would have made it obvious, and not make a character seemingly not and then years later suddenly say "hey do u know? This character is gay all along!" Cough JK Rowling cough)

IamVermillion said:


Ah, I see. You're considering the creator's intentions. I thought you might be a bi female because I guessed that you could have been projecting yourself onto the characters, or taking your experiences as evidence for others being bi and female. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I'd like to point out that authors don't make the sexualitys of characters obvious, and so I find it interesting, how many require explicit queerness to say a character is probably queer and have litle to no requirements for saying a character is cishet. This is why I thought what you were saying showed heteronormativeity.

JujutsuKite said:
There's only handful of fans I've see in JJK fanbase that care much about their ship and here you're comparing it to Mha fanbase. For God's sake, stop romanticizing the matter than what it really is

RobertBobert said:



When even ANN's reviews on the show try to paint Nobara and Maki as lesbians or Megumi as pansexual? Or are you saying that ANN has long since pulled away from actual anime fandom?

RobertBobert said:


I've always liked how people use the concept of heteronormativity as a loophole to speculate about the sexuality of characters, while ignoring the fact that most people are straight anyway, and in the purely pure case, you're more likely to be straight than queer. If you like to assume that a character might be gay or bi just because gay and bi folks exist in our world, then that's up to you. But this will not cease to be an unsubstantiated speculation.

Tirihas said:

So I read Ann's reviews and I don't see what you're talking about.
Where did they say Megumi was pan?
Their episode 17 review says:
"Nobara breaks out the “daisuki” to describe how much she loves and admires Maki for putting up with so many years of nonsense. I've thought that JJK has played up Nobara as having a crush on Maki before, and while I'm not green enough to think that the show has done enough to make Nobara and Maki a “canon” pair or anything, I think there's still plenty of hope that this ship might yet sail!"

That sounds pretty reasonable doesn't it?
They even say the ship isn't canon.

IamVermillion said:


Let me put it this way, say we don't know what the eye colour of a character is, maybe their eyes are always closed, not explicitly giving anything away. Some may say, brown is the most common eye colour, so I think this character must have brown eyes. However, saying this shows that instead of just understanding most people have brown eyes, you beliebe brown the normal or default eye colour.

If this explanation isn't adequate, I can't think of a way to dumb it down more, so I'd recommend doing your own research on heteronormativeity.

IamVermillion said:
@RobertBobert
Look, I'm just saying I don't value probability alone. I know a lot of creators won't create explicitly queer characters because they either don't care about lgbt+ people or are too scared to show it.

If a characters sexuality is not explicit we can interpret them however we want, and it pisses me off when people interpret all characters as strait.

Maki, for example, isn't explicitly queer, but she also isn't explicitly strait. We don't know, canonically, what her sexuality is. If you're going to take guesses, consider more than just statistics.

RobertBobert said:

Mai is possible, but Maki even has a male love interest in the prequel lol. Just because she has close female friends who respect her doesn't make her a potential queer.

RobertBobert said:

Non-ironic interpretation of the respect between the two characters as crush and hope that after daisuki this ship will have some chance? Seriously? This is the level of a blog in a Tumblr, not a resource that claims to be the central anime resource. Well, read the article about this show on This Week in Anime, where they proclaim Nobara's respect for Maki as her "tastes for women" and where they overemphasize Megumi's answer to the question about her favorite type, although the context excludes "person" how "any gender "

IamVermillion said:
[quote=RobertBobert
Lol, you think Maki having a male love interest makes her not queer. You need to learn a lot more about lgbt+ people. You don't even understand the second letter.

RobertBobert said:

@Tirihas Huh, are we talking about the same people? Steve and his friend are literally obsessed with homosexuality, to the point that any friendliness between the characters will definitely be taken as a gay thing. I remember at least 3-4 times when they called straight female characters lesbians just because they were throwing a line about admiring another female character or being friendly with her. They don't even try to hide it, so it's kind of funny that you try to take this as self-awereness that it's fanon.

Daisuki never meant love. This is literally "like it very much" and is often used in a neutral or friendly way, for example by children or friends. The problem is that the translators have become afraid to translate it other than "love" as toxic yuri audiences attacked them every time they translated it as "adore" between female characters. Most anime fans, unless they are obsessed shippers, of course are well aware that daisuki is rarely used in a romantic context. The fact that a journalist of a major resourse ignores this already says enough about his knowledge of the simplest anime tropes.

You should also understand that different languages have different rules for constructing sentences. If a literal translation of a phrase sounds bad in English, that doesn't mean it can't be in Japanese itself. That is why the context is very important, and not the words themselves.

RobertBobert said:
@Tirihas In this case, the translation was correct. He was asked about his favorite type of women and in this context he replied "the main thing is that a person is good", implying that he does not have a special type of women. This is a perfect example of what I am talking about. People don't care about context at all, they just grab the slightest opportunity and shout "look, he said "person!11". There is also a too serious perception of the joke about "if you like guys, its fine too."

RobertBobert said:


This suggests that the author is developing her towards a straight relationship at least. You can speculate as much as you like that she may be bi, because bi exist, but this will remain speculation.

@Tirihas Huh, are we talking about the same people? Steve and his friend are literally obsessed with homosexuality, to the point that any friendliness between the characters will definitely be taken as a gay thing. I remember at least 3-4 times when they called straight female characters lesbians just because they were throwing a line about admiring another female character or being friendly with her. They don't even try to hide it, so it's kind of funny that you try to take this as self-awereness that it's fanon.

Daisuki never meant love. This is literally "like it very much" and is often used in a neutral or friendly way, for example by children or friends. The problem is that the translators have become afraid to translate it other than "love" as toxic yuri audiences attacked them every time they translated it as "adore" between female characters. Most anime fans, unless they are obsessed shippers, of course are well aware that daisuki is rarely used in a romantic context. The fact that a journalist of a major resourse ignores this already says enough about his knowledge of the simplest anime tropes.

You should also understand that different languages have different rules for constructing sentences. If a literal translation of a phrase sounds bad in English, that doesn't mean it can't be in Japanese itself. That is why the context is very important, and not the words themselves.

RobertBobert said:
@Short_Circut You are confusing "love" and "used as a substitute for love." In general, given how shippers don't care about context, I wonder how they don't declare all mothers who say Aishiteru to their children as incestuous.

Don't you remember? Lol, after Nobara decided to protect Maki from her sister's toxic behavior, people on Twitter literally became obsessed with the idea that the former developed crush for the latter and that Nobara is generally lesbian because she is a rude boyish girl. Do straight girls ever can being like that? *sarcasm mode* Of course, the fact that Nobara often hangs out with Maki as the only girl in their school who is also her age was immediately taken as a "ship hint".

As for the slash side, people already ship this, shonen MC always get a hyped ship with their main companion or best friend, this is a classic.

@Tirihas Also keep in mind that real Japanese and the Japanese you hear in anime are "slightly" different things. Anyone with real-life experience in Japanese will tell you this.

Short_Circut said:

Well yes, it doesn't literally translate to love, but it's used well enough as a substitute to have that meaning lol (because actual words for love are not as commonly used as in the west).

and lol I had to go back and rewatch that ep where it started, the only thing I can see that would stir people on is the walk they had (even though Nobara cleary stated she respects maki) but alas, shippers will be shippers. But yeah idk why being anything other than stereotypical woman is being used as a basis to define their sexuality.

Yea shounen mc pairs are usually popular, but they're mostly with hardcore fujo's, at least from what I've seen. I don't see like journalists hyping up those kinds of ships (though then again, I don't read too much anime journalism in the first place)

Plus anime as a whole, in shows that aren't explicitly shounen/shoujo ai, there are a loooooot more homosexual female characters than there are male ones (especially closeted ones)

RobertBobert said:
@Tirihas In that case, you're in luck. These two are so obsessed with homosexuality that even as two guys, each time they sound more and more like horny teenboys who fetishize any interaction between girls. Ironically, they both belong to twitter's SJW-folks, which in a different context regularly whine about the toxic masculinity and sexualization of women in male fantasies.
It was typical "this is certainly not likely, but ...". Obviously he didn't want people to take it as a statement, but nevertheless, people don't talk about hope when they know it won't become true.

Again, context is important. In this context, it was obvious "I admire the way she put up with this all the time." You will repeat the previous commentator who argued that Maki could only be bisexual because bisexuals exist, and not because the plot had any relevant hints of it. It is for the same reason that Megumi was referring to women, whether the translator "gendered" his word or not.

Aren't they scared lol? I remember fanimation translated daisuki as "I adore you" in Relyse the Spyce "and the shippers were literally furious. It was even mentioned in the discussion of this show on ANN and here on MAL.

Tirihas said:

I don't know them so I can't completely explain their thought process.
I just highlighted their format which I liked, that's all.

Unless the author himself told you Megumi was referring to women you cannot change the translation from "that person"/"they" to "woman"/"she".
Keeping the language as close as possible was the English translator's job.
A job mind you, that the translators for every single other language succeeded at while he failed.
Given his track record I suppose that was expecting too much from him.(Swing and ring lol)

Did the translator get harassed over their email or social media?
tsukumiyomi and Anon028(lol) 1 post doesn't count.
You said there's a serious issue across the entire anime medium of shippers attacking translators so badly that they live in fear.
Is that it?

RobertBobert said:


Do you love this format, but are not familiar with them? Lol, I read their "content" 1-2 times a month and that's enough for me to make sure every time that these people are obsessed with a lesbian fetish.

You perfectly understood what I meant. Don't exaggerate. There is a difference between "hey, let's translate to avoid unnecessary whining" and "hey, let's translate this way, otherwise they will kill my family!"

Tirihas said:

I liked their format, because they expressed their personal opinions in a specifically labeled section separate from their official review.

You're saying I'm the one exaggerating?
You mean like you did just now?↑

You wanted to convey "annoying whining" from:
"translators have become afraid to translate it other than "love" as toxic yuri audiences attacked them every time they translated it as "adore" between female characters ."

You know what that sounds like to me? H-a-r-a-s-s-m-e-n-t.

How was I supposed to "perfectly understand" you?

MarkVijet said:
The purpose of ships is to imagine 2 characters that normally won't get together as a couple. I see nothing wrong with that

RobertBobert said:


As I've said several times, the problem is not with the ships. The problem is that people every time take such ships as something supposedly having a chance and become very overprotective in relation to this.

Jackalinthebox said:
Saw where somebody made a twitter thread calling Yuji and Nobara straight and proceeded to get a bunch of death threats lmao

RobertBobert said:


Just a thread? Or for anti-shipping purposes?