| I follow that phenomenon quite a while in the forums now. There were many topics about Yaoi and why people hate it. I don't have anything against people who dislike Yaoi or anything. It's a kind of thing which is not aimed at everybody. You can like it or hate it doesn't matter who you are. But I have a giant problem with these people who say stuff like: "Real gay people aren't like that, crycrycry", "It's an incorrect representation, blablabla". Say they are against that "fetishizing" of gay people etc. so they try to tell people what and what not to fap to and that they are cringy for liking gay-ships more than straight-ships and even call people "homophobic" for fetishizing gay-couples and just enjoying themselves. The main-problem truly is that most of these people who cry about fictional representation of homosexuality is bad while calling fujoshis homophobes etc. aren't even gay themselves. Most of them are straight people who feel the need to collect victim-points or think gay people are all little kids who can't protect themselves. I'm a gay man and I don't give a shit. I enjoyed Junjou Romantica as well as Sekaiichi Hatsukoi for their trashy entertainment factor. Is it rapey? Yes it is. But it's frickin entertaining. You don't like Yaoi, Fujohis and all that stuff? You don't have to, but leave people who are into that stuff alone with your authoritarian bullshit. They know what they do and you don't have to teach them. |
| People act like they're the authority on every topic imaginable. Incidentally, I know everything there is to know about human behaviour on the internet. |
 |
| I don't mind if people ship stuff,but i do have a problem when people make overtly hateful statements like fujioshis should be burned alive,(Which i have seen in the other fujioshi thread),like please calm down.Sure some ships make me scratch my head but i won't witchhunt someone just for taking enjoyment from something that makes them happy.If i don't enjoy rapey stories in yaoi then it's more of my preference,but i won't berate someone for finding that entertaining.Besides,that's not even what being homophic means anyways,since we fujos haven't shown anything that would be deemed discriminatory against gay people,we just really enjoy taking part in this kind of fiction. |
SummerynJan 22, 2020 7:09 AM
 |
Oh boy it’s about to pop off in here! |
| as long as fujoshi's aren't sending death threats I'm all g |
 |
SynthwaveCrusade said: as long as fujoshi's aren't sending death threats I'm all g That's obvuously just a small minority. |
| Finally someone said this, salty I didn’t think of it but I kept forgetting T,T This is hella true. These people act like fetishization is the worst thing in the universe and it only bring bad juju. When there are clearly LGBT people who like yaoi and other series of the like. Basically this over obsession with good representation is hella autistic and it isn’t an argument worth having since all kinds of media has a place. Taste LGBT anime is just as valid and trashy LGBT anime. Just like with every other kind of genre. |
  ♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
shirakawa_megumi said: It's the same as whining about bad representation of anything in anime. Most anime don't even pretend to be realistic representation of anything. If someone needs "real gays" or "real women" then solution is simple, go outside and there are tons of real anything. What's the point of anime if it was like unfunny, non entertaining documentary movie? Exactly! One of my favourite examples: Many people call: "That's unrealistic crap" when Michael Bay is the director (and everyone has to hate on MB am I right?) But then they go Hype-Train when the new garbage Star-Wars movie is released. |
shirakawa_megumi said: MySweetLucifer said: "Real gay people aren't like that, crycrycry", "It's an incorrect representation, blablabla". It's the same as whining about bad representation of anything in anime. Most anime don't even pretend to be realistic representation of anything. If someone needs "real gays" or "real women" or "real men" or "real catgirls, who would have rights to vote and they wouldn't be attracted to master wanting to fuck him every night" then solution is simple, go outside and there are tons of real anything. What's the point of anime if it was like unfunny, non entertaining documentary movie? Yeah it’s stupid,like what benefit is gained from making something more realistic,in a medium where anything is possible?People often forget that anime is an animation medium.Maybe they should go watch some live action gay media instead of watching japanese cartoons so that they would stop their incessant complaints. |
|
| Pretty much, yeah. I've heard my gay friends irl say pretty much the same thing, so it's not a problem exclusive to anime. |
A_Sad_Dust_Cloud said: Pretty much, yeah. I've heard my gay friends irl say pretty much the same thing, so it's not a problem exclusive to anime. I Know that it's not exclusice to Anime, but you know MALs an Anime-site. |
| this can be said for any gender representation and not exclusive to the gay gender |
deg said: this can be said for any gender representation and not exclusive to the gay gender What the frick is a "gay gender"? I only know male and female, so sorry lol |
MySweetLucifer said: deg said: this can be said for any gender representation and not exclusive to the gay gender What the frick is a "gay gender"? I only know male and female, so sorry lol err there are lots of gender seeing its a social construct for the most part heck here on MAL there is an option for non-binary gender |
deg said: err there are lots of gender seeing its a social construct for the most part heck here on MAL there is an option for non-binary gender Gender-specific behaviour can be seen a social-construct. Biological gender isn't. |
MySweetLucifer said: deg said: err there are lots of gender seeing its a social construct for the most part heck here on MAL there is an option for non-binary gender Gender-specific behaviour is a social-construct. Biological gender isnt. there is a difference between sex and gender so ye biological sex is only 3 which are male, female, intersex |
deg said: there is a difference between sex and gender so ye biological sex is only 3 which are male, female, intersex There are only Peoples with dicks and vaginas. Therefore male and female are the only existent sex/gender whatever known to man. |
Xstasy said: Yaoi manga is created by the women for the women, gay manga is called Bara. Many gay people don't like the way relationships are portrayed in yaoi, they often criticize the fetishization and rapey aspect of it. They feel like it gives a negative image to gay people by promoting and reinforcing negative stereotypes like promiscuity. Most people in general don't like rapey romances and find them off putting and disturbing. And I don't see a problem in people don't like that. But no one has the right to judge others for liking it. Maybe I find rapey romance in fiction enjoyable and entertaining. How about that? |
MySweetLucifer said: deg said: there is a difference between sex and gender so ye biological sex is only 3 which are male, female, intersex There are only Peoples with dicks and vaginas. Therefore male and female are the only existent sex/gender whatever known to man. you school textbook needs updating then lol and if that is the case there is no homosexuality then? because there is only male and female to you? |
MySweetLucifer said: deg said: and if that is the case there is no homosexuality then? because there is only male and female to you? Deggy-san I think I don't know what you talk about anymore. Of course there's homosexuality. We live in a world with 2 genders and many sexualities. Some of them are created for attention-whoring purposes ("pansexuality" for example) while others are just mental-illnesses (like "asexuality" for example) but that's it. you are confusing sex and gender though you said there is no such thing as gay gender then there is only 2 sexes (male and female) so what are gays then? |
MySweetLucifer said: Aren't you mixing up gender and sex tho? And there are intersex folks too, they have nothing to do with transgenderism. deg said: and if that is the case there is no homosexuality then? because there is only male and female to you? Deggy-san I think I don't know what you talk about anymore. Of course there's homosexuality. We live in a world with 2 genders and many sexualities. Some of them are created for attention-whoring purposes ("pansexuality" for example) while others are just mental-illnesses (like "asexuality" for example) but that's it. |
 Leading biologist Scott Pitnick said: The bigger your 'nads, the smaller your brains |
deg said: you said there is no such thing as gay gender then there is only 2 sexes (male and female) so what are gays then? I don't know what you talk about! There are men who like men and women who like women. But they are male and female. |
MySweetLucifer said: deg said: you said there is no such thing as gay gender then there is only 2 sexes (male and female) so what are gays then? I don't know what you talk about! There are men who like men and women who like women. But they are male and female. welp isnt what youre saying gay misrepresentation lol but i will stop now you might learn one day the difference between sex and gender |
deg said: welp isnt what youre saying gay misrepresentation lol but i will stop now you might learn one day the difference between sex and gender No No No. What's the difference between sex and gender then? |
MySweetLucifer said: deg said: welp isnt what youre saying gay misrepresentation lol but i will stop now you might learn one day the difference between sex and gender No No No. What's the difference between sex and gender then? sex is biological differences particularly genital differences gender is more of identity like sexual identity/preferences which gays and other LGBT terms and countless made up gender by Tumblr is categorize |
| Y'all niggs mixing up gender, sex and sexual orientation and I don't understand why deg said: sex is biological differences particularly genital differences gender is more of identity like sexual identity/preferences which gays and other LGBT terms and countless made up gender by Tumblr is categorize Oh, LGBTQSBFUIWH921Y1038Y179D community is why. |
EsquirtitJan 22, 2020 8:21 AM
| poop |
deg said: sex is biological differences particularly genital differences gender is more of identity like sexual identity/preferences which gays and other LGBT terms and countless made up gender by Tumblr is categorize Thanks for the explanation. So there are 2 sexes and all that gender stuff. I won't ever call my Homosexuality a gender rather a sexuality, but hey. |
| When one says gender, one could be talking about gender identity or gender expression, or both. Gender identity would be one's own interpretation of oneself, in body, mind, so on (think with the words 'man', 'woman'). Gender expression would be how one presents oneself to the world, which socially and culturally understood signifiers they choose to use/perform, which they choose to deny and how they combine them (think with the words 'masculine', 'feminine', 'androgynous'). Sex are biologically quantifiable characteristics one could present, in chromosomes and sex specific organs (ovaries, mammaries, testes), think 'female', 'male', 'intersex'. Sexual orientation isn't to be confused with any of these, it portrays one's preferred gender/sex in a sexual partner in regards to their own gender/sex. |
 |
Kosmonaut said: When one says gender, one could be talking about gender identity or gender expression, or both. Gender identity would be one's own interpretation of oneself, in body, mind, so on (think with the words 'man', 'woman'). Gender expression would be how one presents oneself to the world, which socially and culturally understood signifiers they choose to use/perform, which they choose to deny and how they combine them (think with the words 'masculine', 'feminine', 'androgynous'). Sex are biologically quantifiable characteristics one could present, in chromosomes and sex specific organs (ovaries, mammaries, testes), think 'female', 'male', 'intersex'. Sexual orientation isn't to be confused with any of these, it portrays one's preferred gender/sex in a sexual partner in regards to their own gender/sex. I don't have the intention of offending anyone but that whole paragraph sounds hella confusing and for my unexperienced german ears hella dumb as well. |
| Well, yaoi ain't a problem itself, it's quite enjoyable but most of them are unrealistic or exaggerated Hear me out it's not a bad thing, it's just pure fantasy. If you want realistic gay romances, just go watch some Shounen Ai animes and you'll be pleased Also I don't really see the big deal with fujoshis, aren't they just girls who like shipping men with each other ? I might miss a point here, but it rather seems pretty funny |
| @Themousen "Well, yaoi ain't a problem itself, it's quite enjoyable but most of them are unrealistic or exaggerated" Yes, that what makes them entertaining trash to me. "Hear me out it's not a bad thing, it's just pure fantasy. If you want realistic gay romances, just go watch some Shounen Ai animes and you'll be pleased" Most Shounen-Ai aren't realistic at all. I mean two teenage guys accidentally meet each other and accidentally they are both gay and get openly gay on each other without having fear of being seen by others. I never had such a thing when I was a teen. |
Kosmonaut said: When one says gender, one could be talking about gender identity or gender expression, or both. Gender identity would be one's own interpretation of oneself, in body, mind, so on (think with the words 'man', 'woman'). Gender expression would be how one presents oneself to the world, which socially and culturally understood signifiers they choose to use/perform, which they choose to deny and how they combine them (think with the words 'masculine', 'feminine', 'androgynous'). Sex are biologically quantifiable characteristics one could present, in chromosomes and sex specific organs (ovaries, mammaries, testes), think 'female', 'male', 'intersex'. Sexual orientation isn't to be confused with any of these, it portrays one's preferred gender/sex in a sexual partner in regards to their own gender/sex. But some .... people choose 'gay' to be their gender, correct? |
| poop |
Kosmonauts whole article is unintellible to me. I don't even know if that's supposed to be english lol |
MySweetLucifer said: I don't think the problem in understanding is our languages, but oh well.Kosmonaut said: When one says gender, one could be talking about gender identity or gender expression, or both. Gender identity would be one's own interpretation of oneself, in body, mind, so on (think with the words 'man', 'woman'). Gender expression would be how one presents oneself to the world, which socially and culturally understood signifiers they choose to use/perform, which they choose to deny and how they combine them (think with the words 'masculine', 'feminine', 'androgynous'). Sex are biologically quantifiable characteristics one could present, in chromosomes and sex specific organs (ovaries, mammaries, testes), think 'female', 'male', 'intersex'. Sexual orientation isn't to be confused with any of these, it portrays one's preferred gender/sex in a sexual partner in regards to their own gender/sex. I don't have the intention of offending anyone but that whole paragraph sounds hella confusing and for my unexperienced german ears hella dumb as well. Simplified it would be: Sex - assigned at birth, looks at chromosome exclusive organs, reproductive organs: male (XY, the balls, the dick), female (XX, the womb, the boobs, the pussy), intersex (other chromosome types and a combination of reproductive organs). Gender identity - you assign to yourself, only dependent on your own interpretation: man, woman and others. Gender expression - taking traditional gender roles, which you use to express yourself; how you dress, how you talk, how you act, how you are seen: feminine, masculine, androgynous, ambiguous and others. Sexual orientation - who you want to fuck. Esquirtit said: I identify as the straight gender myself.Kosmonaut said: When one says gender, one could be talking about gender identity or gender expression, or both. Gender identity would be one's own interpretation of oneself, in body, mind, so on (think with the words 'man', 'woman'). Gender expression would be how one presents oneself to the world, which socially and culturally understood signifiers they choose to use/perform, which they choose to deny and how they combine them (think with the words 'masculine', 'feminine', 'androgynous'). Sex are biologically quantifiable characteristics one could present, in chromosomes and sex specific organs (ovaries, mammaries, testes), think 'female', 'male', 'intersex'. Sexual orientation isn't to be confused with any of these, it portrays one's preferred gender/sex in a sexual partner in regards to their own gender/sex. But some .... people choose 'gay' to be their gender, correct? |
|
Kosmonaut said: Simplified it would be: Sex - assigned at birth, looks at chromosome exclusive organs, reproductive organs: male (XY, the balls, the dick), female (XX, the womb, the boobs, the pussy), intersex (other chromosome types and a combination of reproductive organs). Gender identity - you assign to yourself, only dependent on your own interpretation: man, woman and others. Gender expression - taking traditional gender roles, which you use to express yourself; how you dress, how you talk, how you act, how you are seen: feminine, masculine, androgynous, ambiguous and others. Sexual orientation - who you want to fuck. Oh now I understood: My Sex: Male My Gender-Identity: Male My Gender Expression: Male My Sexual Orientation: I like dudes those who have dicks |
MySweetLucifer said: @Themousen "Well, yaoi ain't a problem itself, it's quite enjoyable but most of them are unrealistic or exaggerated" Yes, that what makes them entertaining trash to me. "Hear me out it's not a bad thing, it's just pure fantasy. If you want realistic gay romances, just go watch some Shounen Ai animes and you'll be pleased" Most Shounen-Ai aren't realistic at all. I mean two teenage guys accidentally meet each other and accidentally they are both gay and get openly gay on each other without having fear of being seen by others. I never had such a thing when I was a teen. They're quite realistic when it comes to characters interactions, but yep it's true that they often share some tropes like "every sexy guy in this anime is gay, or at least bi". Would be heaven if the real life was like this However I don't really agree with the whole meeting problem People nowadays are way more confident about their sexuality and don't feel ashamed to be gay/LGBT in general, so being pretty opened about it isn't such a big thing, at least in most of Western countries Of course it's pretty convenient they're both gay, but this kind of deduction works for any other couple as well. What are the odds two persons like each other ? Honestly the chances are not really high But it's a romance anime, so of course they HAVE to like each other, because..well, that's the animes' plot after all Meeting someone by accident and falling in love with them is a common thing in the real life too This convenient trope is true for basically any romance anime, weither it is a straight or a gay one and yeah, yaoi is definitively entertaining trash material, that's why we love this genre Also, I didn't really follow your arguing but being gay is not a gender but a sexual orientation. Don't know what's going on with all this gender/sex debate since it seems pretty obvious |
| I really don't understand why people conflate yaoi/BL and gay romance. I mean, sure, some effort should be made to separate these two things by fans mentally too - I suppose, immature fujoshi girls, who ship people irl or are invasive towards gay dudes are not ok, but otherwise it's not about gay men. They can overlap with gay romance or be more realistic, but it's not the point, I believe. It's a genre mostly by women for women. I think it's reverse from drag. Gay men dress as over the top women as a form of art to express something. It can be offensive to women, which can be minimized, it's enjoyed in gay spaces, even if women can like it too. Yaoi, BL, slash are forms of art mainly by straight women for straight women, which allows them to express something about their sexuality. It can be offensive to gay men, which can be minimized, it's enjoyed by women, even if gay men can like it too. Very similar, right? It's not like yaoi is all that realistic too. They tend to have "sensitive breasts", don't need lube, gender roles are often evident... Settings are often separated from reality, like omegaverse. People made a whole fictional universe to ship dudes for fun in peace. There's bara if you want something more authentic. -_- Edit: Tho yeah, some tropes are off putting. Like the lack of consent. It's staple in erotic genres, but sometimes it's way too much. I dislike the difference in size and straight gender roles, which others have mentioned. Wouldn't it be fun to flip them? But what really gets to me is misogyny in female-oriented work made by women. When the main couple is good and pure, and all girls are lying sadistic evil scheming seductresses. There can be loads of internalized homophobia in characters as well. |
deadoptimistJan 22, 2020 9:28 AM
Kosmonaut said: I identify as the straight gender myself. I identify as gay but I'm heterosexual. MySweetLucifer said: Kosmonauts whole article is unintellible to me. I don't even know if that's supposed to be english lol I'm just too dumb to understand how people distinguish between gender identity and sexual orientation when the ''gay'' and ''straight'' gender are a thing. Maybe it just means you don't believe in genders so your sexuality is all that matters and therefore it's the same as gender identity? I think that's it, not even confusing actually. I had forgotten some don't conform to establishes ideas of the male and female so they don't identify with them. @Kosmonaut Can you help me again papa? So your gender identity is ''straight''. I get it nvm. |
EsquirtitJan 22, 2020 9:51 AM
| poop |
| @deadoptimist I just read Yaoi, Doujins and BL for fun, I don't take them seriously. I absolutely agree with most of what you written their. But peoples are allowed to enjoy whatever the fuck they want in fiction. |
MySweetLucifer said: @deadoptimist I just read Yaoi, Doujins and BL for fun, I don't take them seriously. I absolutely agree with most of what you written their. But peoples are allowed to enjoy whatever the fuck they want in fiction. I think that media may popularize certain opinions, even entertainment media, at the very least by exposing people to them. For example, ahegao was very niche, and now it's a neutral pattern, so cringey streamers make "ahegao face". I don't trust human ability to separate the fictional and the real. I am not sure our brains allow it easily. I have seen people projecting media tropes on irl situations way too many times. I also think it's fair if someone is salty when he is shown in a very bad light in media for someone's fun. When your group is the butt of the joke in every show, it's likely people will treat you the same in social situations. Simply by following the easiest thought pattern. But it's not like I suggest banning all problematic things. I just think it's OK to criticise them. The criticism may help people with putting things in the right sane context. Also why the hell not: if people can watch whatever, I can also judge it. Expansion and pushback are both facts of nature, after all. And, like, let's be real, not all consumers are advanced mature shitposters - there is a ton of vulnerable people, who are very young, exposed to something for the first time, or just noncritical. And if you're stuck in an echo chamber of a fandom it's very easy to degenerate. |
| I'm a gay guy and I also read a bunch of yaoi manga and doujins too, but I personally don't give a shit about its "inaccurate portrayals" of gay romance. Those people subscribe to faux-woke ideologies and try to deconstruct each form of media for being oppressive and offensive and attack yaoi genre for being homophobic, but every gay guy doesn't give a shit about it. Stuff like yaoi manga doesn't even have any real-life impact like that anyway lol. Bara is pretty good too |
| Sure, go ahead and like Junjou Romantica me man. I don't even though I used to. You can. I can say what is off putting about it to me. You can say what you like about it. If I ever say something bad about a show, it doesn't mean I want to take away someone's right to enjoy it. Read rape group rape mind break mind control doujinshi for all I care. |
dungy said: Bara is pretty good too Bara is perfect husbando material, I fully agree |
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