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Would it be immoral to copy and paste art for a webtoon you're making with modifications?

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Feb 24, 2018 4:20 PM
#1
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Jul 2017
26
I have a dope idea for a webtoon, and I suck at art unless I make modifications to existing ones or use onion screen. Would that be bad and would people still support me in making it? The webtoon woud be like unordinary but much much more interesting.
Feb 24, 2018 4:31 PM
#2

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Sep 2014
2794
Yep, that's bad. The illustrator for No Game No Life got flak for copying the poses of already made characters.... and those are just poses.
.
Feb 24, 2018 4:33 PM
#3

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Mar 2016
64
If you don't have permission yes, you need to ask.
Feb 24, 2018 7:12 PM
#4

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Dec 2015
1176
Yes. That's called plagiarism and theft. You're going to take someone else's work, modify it, and then use it for your own story? Why not go ahead and claim it's all yours while you're at it?







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Feb 24, 2018 7:15 PM
#5
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Jan 2013
10764
search for the comic Incarnate made by Gene Simons son, it got cancelled after backlash when several cases of tracing and plagiarism came to light

edit: Bleach's Tite Kubo, who Nick Simmons plagiarized didn't even gave a shit, but fans did and that's enough to cause big drama
gone bai bai
Feb 24, 2018 7:17 PM
#6
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Aug 2016
1211
Ever heard of plagiarism? That's basically that

And ever heard of asking consent to the original artist? because they probably put their all on to their work ya know...
Feb 24, 2018 7:22 PM
#7

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Sep 2017
98
Are you making some sort of collage style webtoon? If so, that's pretty interesting, however I wouldn't recommend it. Artists tend to get very pissy when it comes to using their art. It would be a huge hassle.
Feb 24, 2018 8:36 PM
#8

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May 2013
13432
Go ahead and try it bro, you'll just realize you're a glob of shampoo
I CELEBRATE myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
Feb 24, 2018 9:48 PM
#9

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Jan 2016
371
it is illegal to steal art. pay an artist.
Feb 24, 2018 9:56 PM

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Dec 2017
780
You would need permission from the owner of the art or else you could get in trouble

 i like avocados on toast 
Feb 25, 2018 7:04 AM

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Apr 2017
1192
It's a terrible idea, except if you want to be twitter executed.



buy mochi at the mochi store
and friends at the friend store

Feb 25, 2018 9:33 AM

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Jan 2018
33322
It's plagiarism. You can get banned or society will shun you for it. But it's not wrong if you don't get caught doing it.
Feb 25, 2018 9:47 AM

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Jul 2015
14386
Too bad mate, you should have tried to make music instead, stealing is an art called sampling there.
Prophetess of the Golden Era
Feb 25, 2018 9:57 AM

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Apr 2011
4658
Elegade said:
Yep, that's bad. The illustrator for No Game No Life got flak for copying the poses of already made characters.... and those are just poses.


I think this is retarded. Copyright on poses ? What's next, copyright on breathing ?
Feb 25, 2018 10:01 AM
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Oct 2017
1832
Clebardman said:
Too bad mate, you should have tried to make music instead, stealing is an art called sampling there.

sampling is more akin to collaging than plagiarism
Feb 25, 2018 10:01 AM

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Aug 2009
11167
Just learn how to draw. It ain't that hard.

Feb 25, 2018 10:07 AM
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Oct 2017
1832
Valaskjalf said:
Elegade said:
Yep, that's bad. The illustrator for No Game No Life got flak for copying the poses of already made characters.... and those are just poses.


I think this is retarded. Copyright on poses ? What's next, copyright on breathing ?

http://www.otakutale.com/2014/no-game-no-life-artist-yuu-kamiya-allegedly-caught-tracing-other-peoples-work/
there was no copyright, tracing here means that he used other artists' work as the skeleton of his own. there wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't making money off of it
Feb 25, 2018 10:23 AM

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Jul 2015
14386
bitchassdarius said:
Clebardman said:
Too bad mate, you should have tried to make music instead, stealing is an art called sampling there.

sampling is more akin to collaging than plagiarism

I heard the arguments hundred times, went to music schools, had a producer roommate. There's no general rule, but in most cases I disagree. Lots of people treat it as a way to avoid paying musicians, plain and simple. Steal a bass line, a drum pattern, copy and past on your IPod to blast it during "concerts". Collages generally have a different purpose than the original pieces they're made of or are a different medium of expression/used to express something with things that ren't art in the first place, and it's true for stuff like Zappa's or Mr Bungle's musical collages too. Sampling is generally used to steal some popular music in an attempt to make another popular music.

That'd be like taking DBZ's backgrounds, pasting Bleach characters over it, using One Piece's plot and making a battle shounen out of it, but somehow the music industry made everyone swallow that it was k because it cuts down on costs dramatically.
DeathkoFeb 25, 2018 10:28 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era
Feb 25, 2018 10:34 AM
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Oct 2017
1832
Clebardman said:
bitchassdarius said:

sampling is more akin to collaging than plagiarism

I heard the arguments hundred times, went to music schools, had a producer roommate. There's no general rule, but in most cases I disagree. Lots of people treat it as a way to avoid paying musicians, plain and simple. Steal a bass line, a drum pattern, copy and past on your IPod to blast it during "concerts".

That'd be like taking DBZ's backgrounds, pasting Bleach characters over it, using One Piece's plot, making a battle shounen out of it, and somehow the music industry made everyone swallow that it was k because it cuts down on costs dramatically.

what you described is indeed a collage, albeit a poorly made one. so i think you agree that sampling is like collaging, you just have no respect for the artform.
there's a lot you can do with sampling, and when you hear it, i think it'd be difficult to argue against its artistic merit. it's not a style used only in hip hop
but even in hip hop, at its potential, sampling can be extremely impressive. paul's boutique is lauded by pretty much everyone as one of the best albums of all time
most pop songs these days have sounds that are produced almost entirely electronically, so it doesn't even make sense to have a group of musicians to record. i think your conception of the whole process is a little outdated through a rockist lens
bitchassdariusFeb 25, 2018 11:00 AM
Feb 25, 2018 10:39 AM

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Nov 2011
6643
just ask permission from the original artist, and give credit where the credit is due.
You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/.
The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish.
Show your support to your favorite artist if you can!
ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name.

For those who want to learn Japanese through anime
Resources for learning the language
Feb 25, 2018 10:49 AM
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Valaskjalf said:
Elegade said:
Yep, that's bad. The illustrator for No Game No Life got flak for copying the poses of already made characters.... and those are just poses.


I think this is retarded. Copyright on poses ? What's next, copyright on breathing ?


A *pose* isn't copyrighted, but the linework you do is. Which is why he's criticized.

He took existing art from pixiv (Japanese equivalent of DeviantArt) then used the exact linework as the basis for his own drawings: e.g. take an existing character drawing then draw your own face and clothes over the top. You can scale and rotate his art and it lines up magically with several pixiv artist's character work. Once or twice could be coincidence, but this works for quite a few of his illustrations - and probably would work for a lot more, except we don't know which of his illustrations ripped off which of the millions of Pixiv drawings.

As the final, separate, smoking gun, Madhouse had to publicly apologize because a magic circle used in the TV version turn out to be blatantly stolen from yet another Pixiv artist. Madhouse *don't* make mistakes like accidentally stealing Pixiv art for their shows. The common link was *him* since he uses Pixiv art as a working reference, and he obviously snuck in the magic circle picture (giving the benefit of the doubt, this was probably by accident, since he's sloppy with attribution) with a pile of art he'd told Madhouse was his original art. Here's the original news story about that
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-05-30/no-game-no-life-anime-staff-apologizes-for-using-art-without-authorization/.74993
cipheronFeb 25, 2018 11:15 AM
Feb 25, 2018 10:51 AM

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May 2013
13432
Clebardman said:
bitchassdarius said:

sampling is more akin to collaging than plagiarism

I heard the arguments hundred times, went to music schools, had a producer roommate. There's no general rule, but in most cases I disagree. Lots of people treat it as a way to avoid paying musicians, plain and simple. Steal a bass line, a drum pattern, copy and past on your IPod to blast it during "concerts". Collages generally have a different purpose than the original pieces they're made of or are a different medium of expression/used to express something with things that ren't art in the first place, and it's true for stuff like Zappa's or Mr Bungle's musical collages too. Sampling is generally used to steal some popular music in an attempt to make another popular music.

That'd be like taking DBZ's backgrounds, pasting Bleach characters over it, using One Piece's plot and making a battle shounen out of it, but somehow the music industry made everyone swallow that it was k because it cuts down on costs dramatically.


Well, it's like Bitchass said, it's not always like your'e sampling the finest materials it's more of a collage. You could be sampling speeches or something not even music, and it just makes it sound cool. I agree that stuff like Girl Talk is a bit obnoxious though, and if you're not even writing the music well yeah that's lame. But especially in hip hop sampling isn't usually like that, it's more of just a way to find new sounds.

What the OP is talking about is almost like he wants to be a DJ for his favorite arts. Thing is, the DJ doesn't go telling people he produced the music if it wasn't him. Just don't lie about it and it's all good.
I CELEBRATE myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
Feb 25, 2018 10:56 AM
dozing general

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Oct 2017
243
If you have permission from the artists that’s fine. However learning to draw your own things will get you much further if that’s what you want to do in life.
Feb 25, 2018 11:20 AM
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Aug 2011
1530
Also, if you're going to copy things for learning purposes, make sure to copy by *eye* and not to trace. You'll get a quicker result with tracing, but you won't be learning the skills.
Feb 25, 2018 11:41 AM

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Jul 2015
14386
@bitchassdarius I said nothing about it being mostly hip-hop. Your argument about music being produced without instuments is nonsense. If you record sounds to make music it's a collage. If you use sounds that can't be conveniently reproduced live, it's a collage. If you take a bassline, be it made with an actual bass guitar or a synth, and just stick it in your song and play it live, that's just plagiarism AND stealing musicians' job, on top of being as uncreative as it gets. Might as well put your laptop on the scene, press play and go grab a drink backstage. I know people like to see music as that free thing that comes out of nowhere, but that's not the case.

I listen to electronic music too, not sure where you read that I want actual bands recording and playing that stuff. The electronic bands I listen to have no problem sampling shit without actually stealing music either.

I've seen enough people "not stealing" music without people's authorizations in the most convoluted ways, I know full well where the logic leads.


edit: oh, and since I feel like I'm accused of hating on certain genres, I seem to remember ZZ Top made a tour where they used samples of themselves playing trumpet and sax to avoid bringing more people on the scene. That doesn't count as stealing, but that sure counts as using sampling to kill the job
DeathkoFeb 25, 2018 11:54 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era
Feb 25, 2018 12:36 PM
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Oct 2017
1832
Clebardman said:
@bitchassdarius I said nothing about it being mostly hip-hop. Your argument about music being produced without instuments is nonsense. If you record sounds to make music it's a collage. If you use sounds that can't be conveniently reproduced live, it's a collage. If you take a bassline, be it made with an actual bass guitar or a synth, and just stick it in your song and play it live, that's just plagiarism AND stealing musicians' job, on top of being as uncreative as it gets. Might as well put your laptop on the scene, press play and go grab a drink backstage. I know people like to see music as that free thing that comes out of nowhere, but that's not the case.

I listen to electronic music too, not sure where you read that I want actual bands recording and playing that stuff. The electronic bands I listen to have no problem sampling shit without actually stealing music either.

I've seen enough people "not stealing" music without people's authorizations in the most convoluted ways, I know full well where the logic leads.


edit: oh, and since I feel like I'm accused of hating on certain genres, I seem to remember ZZ Top made a tour where they used samples of themselves playing trumpet and sax to avoid bringing more people on the scene. That doesn't count as stealing, but that sure counts as using sampling to kill the job

>If you record sounds to make music it's a collage
Categorically incorrect

col·lage
/kəˈläZH/
noun
a piece of art made by sticking various different materials such as photographs and pieces of paper or fabric onto a backing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_collage

> If you take a bassline, be it made with an actual bass guitar or a synth, and just stick it in your song and play it live
That's not sampling. I think you might have the wrong idea of what sampling actually is.

>I know people like to see music as that free thing that comes out of nowhere, but that's not the case.
Music does come out of nowhere. That void is artistic creativity and the desire to create.

>I've seen enough people "not stealing" music without people's authorizations in the most convoluted ways, I know full well where the logic leads.
Sampling in the majority of pop music is legally and fully authorized. I think you're conflating sampling with just outright plagiarism. I can just as easily list a bunch of works that are fully authorized that would disprove any notion of the whole. Anecdotal evidence doesn't really mean anything when speaking generally.
bitchassdariusFeb 25, 2018 12:42 PM

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