Why the &#039;haremification&#039; of many series?

RIP CE, thank you and fuck you for bringing Rule 7 that ultimately killed you and this shithole

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@Pullman
Yeah, I also like it a lot, its just a little annoyance

Nov 24, 2017 6:19 PM

#53

nbyung09

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Jul 2017

922

Because everyone like the idea of protagonist helping or protecting characters of opposite sex, and spark romantic actions... While having a harem of different girls help attract different viewers. Imagine the Monogatari girls is replaced by boys.... oh my god

Therefore harem is not a bad thing in my opinion.

It doesn't only exist in anime too. It also exists in other medium or culture, for example, Chinese literature. If you know who Jin Yong, (probably the most respected Chinese author alive), all of his chivalry novels are harem. But nobody ever describe them as "harem" or bother by the abundant of female characters.

Nov 24, 2017 6:29 PM

#54

_Ako_

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Feb 2015

13836

I dunno how it is that easy to hate a series just because it's harem/isekai or whatever-- It might just be me, but I've not really paid too much attention on it; if I found the series a harem and didn't like I would just drop it. That's how it is for me; and will still probably continue on. How the harem element will shape the series; change the plot will always be seen in a different perspective by every users. Ohhh well that's just me.

From what I've seen; well of course generalizing it would be anything that contains harem/isekai is bad and will always be synonymous to fanservice; God bait threads works that way and I dunno why.

Nov 24, 2017 11:07 PM

#55

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Jul 2015

806

This person also said a similar thing about needing to have a 2nd strong male character among the protagonist side in any series that has Battles in it >>> http://blog.livedoor.jp/moebutasokuho/archives/16845099.html

16：以下、名無しにかわりましてVIPがお送りします：2012/09/07(金) 13:44:25.32 ID:4OIJeRhGP

バトルがあるものだったら、やっぱり強い男の仲間がいた方がいんですけど

Translation : If it has Battles in it, then of course it's good to have another strong male as a comrade.

My Comment : Totally agree on that. However, look at shows like Seirei Tsukai no Kenbu and Saijaku Muhai no Bahamut. Both of those series have plenty of Battles in it, so why didn't the Author add a 2nd strong male character as the MC's friend also attending the same school and getting his own girl/small harem too ????? I mean, there are so many girls in the MC's school, like 99% of the students are all females, and the MC already will be destined to pair with his main girl and main company of girls, so it doesn't hurt at all to have another story-important 2nd strong male comrade that will also get girls destined for him, so why not do that ???????

27：以下、名無しにかわりましてVIPがお送りします：2012/09/07(金) 13:54:25.66 ID:JXWw/VPd0

taritariを観て男キャラの重要性を知った

Translation : I came to know the importance of male characters from watching Taritari.

My Comment : Indeed.

29：以下、名無しにかわりましてVIPがお送りします：2012/09/07(金) 13:55:43.08 ID:yHzSgXON0

女３－男２がベストだろ

Translation :

It's best for there to be 3 females and 2 males.

My Comment:

Indeed. But if there were to be an long epic fantasy story with many characters, the ratio should be 3 males and 5 females.

My Conclusion : A story with Battles in it needs to have a 2nd strong male character in it, regardless of whether the source material is from a Manga or Light Novel. Have that 2nd strong male get his own girl too, so that both the MC and his male friend each gets a girl(s).

To stress my point, I want all of you here to imagine a revised version of Asterisk War, where Lester gets his own strong weapon and becomes almost as strong as Ayato, and then show subplot scenes where Lester gets closer with Claudia, interacts a lot with each other, trains together, and then they fall in love.

That subplot would be more interesting than watching the lame MC Ayato and his harem group involving the other 3 girls, Julis, Ayato's sister and Kirin.

So, I hope Light Novel Authors in Japan stop writing stories where only one male character in the main cast gets the girls, and I want them to write more stories where 2 strong males in the good side each gets their own girls in any series that has Battles in it, regardless of how many females there are in the main cast. My ideal cast would be 2 males and 6 females, so that both males can get their own small harem of 3 girls each. 3 males and 5 females is also OK, if 1st male is paired with the loyal main heroine he likes very much, and 2nd male is paired with 2 girls, and 3rd male is paired with the other 2 girls. This way, everyone wins, and it's better to read and watch such series compared to one where only a single male lead monopolized the attention of all the female cast.

If I myself have a Harem in real life with many girls liking me, I'd prefer to stick with just 1-2 girls, and give the rest to be paired with other good and honorable males that can make them happy, as I alone am not enough to provide all kinds of needs and happiness to so many girls. I'd rather have just 1 or 2 loyal girls than having so many girls where one of them might betray me in the future. Now, when I mention this fact, it makes me realize how stupidly illogical and unrealistic the Harem setting of many Animes looks like.

So, there should be more believable series in Light Novels, where a 2nd and even 3rd male characters gets their own girls among the female cast. I mean, I've read some fanfics on Japanese sites of Kurosaki Ichigo from Bleach going to the Infinte Stratos World in a Crossover, and find how entertaining it is to read Ichigo getting Cecillia and Laura to like him while Ichika gets his loyal childhood friends Houki and Rin to like him. It looks more fair and believable that way. There's also other versions of such fanfics, where Ichika still gets those 2 girls he knows since a kid, while Ichigo gets the Sarashiki sisters, and Laura to like him. In that fanfic, Ichigo gets those girls to like him due to saving them from Hollow attacks and making idealistic remarks about fighting to protect those he can protect. Yay a Harem for the other male character other than Ichika. Shout Banzai for 2 males in the main cast !!! 2 MALES AND 6 FEMALES MAIN CAST BANZAI !!! 3 MALES AND 5 FEMALES MAIN CAST BANZAI !!!! LONG LIVE SUCH SHOWS !!! BE GONE WITH SINGLE MALE HAREMS !!!!! WE PROTEST ALL SERIES AND SHOWS WHERE ONLY ONE SINGLE MALE LEAD GETS ALL THE GIRLS !!!!!

I so passionately hate very much Single Male Harem series that I feel the need to advocate for the creation of more series where 2 males each getting their own girls are present in any series.

I'd also like to advocate for the Boycott of all Harem series where only one male lead gets all the girls' affection.

There are already more than enough Single Male Harem series in the market, so now it is time to move to the next step in evolution, and that is to have a Double Male Lead Harem where 1st male lead gets a minimum of 4 girls and 2nd male lead gets 3 girls to like/fawn on him.

I am someone that would like to watch a Harem Anime with 2 male leads that each gets their own harem company of girls from the main cast. For example, 1st male lead gets a company of 4 girls and 2nd male lead gets 2-3 girls etc.

Nov 24, 2017 11:17 PM

#56

CamTheThief

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Dec 2014

877

CoolitzHubertXVI said:

I'd also like to advocate for the Boycott of all Harem series where only one male lead gets all the girls' affection.

So this is why you share the same posts all over the place?
Was this bit always in there? I'll be honest, I read a grand total of two of them.
Regardless though, you probably need a better outlet than MAL to spread your gospel. I recommend learning Japanese and enrolling as a student at Tokyo University. From there you can turn to activism and boycotts involving the populace that has the most impact on the market. It won't be easy but I believe you might just do it!
Or you'll just continue to spam MAL forums. Either or, kind of up in the air right now.

Nov 24, 2017 11:21 PM

#57

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564612

I'm guessing they're trying to appeal to the hypocritical mindset of filthy otakus like me.

I think a majority of guys like me, who've got no shot for an actual romantic relationship, fantasize about having a perfect girlfriend that we stay faithful to. But at the same time, the idea of being surrounded by a bunch of girls who also like us, and makes moves on us, is great too.
The problem is, you end up with a hypocrite of a self-insert when you combine both contrasting fantasies.
So what anime do is have a main romance, but a harem on the side that the self-insert protagonist is unaware of, so that us, the viewers, don't feel guilty about another bunch of girls being attracted to us, because "we" (the self-insert) are unaware of their attraction.

Nov 24, 2017 11:39 PM

#58

BurningSpirit

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Nov 2014

4049

It's just a "feel good" addition to the entire series. Especially because this is the kind of thing that the viewers lap up.

You talk about Western movie having a romance or love triangle of the side, but imo it's the same thing. It's painfully poorly executed and pretty lame. Having a normal ol' movie fantasy going through the entire plot (with no hint of romance ever), then near the end, BAM confession and couple, final kiss, then credits. Like wtf? What a fucking unnecessary romance. But people still lap that crappy romance up.

Admittedly the unnecessary harem in some Japanese anime is way worse than just an unnecessary crappy romance some Western movies. After all an unnecessary crappy romance can be done with a guy and a girl in most normal main casts, on the other hand it requires the addition of mostly trophy girls to achieve an unnecessary harem, most of which have terrible character development given their status as trophy girls.

I'm not a lolicon, you're just projecting your tendency to lewd 2D characters.

If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate.

Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too.
My MAL Interview

Nov 24, 2017 11:43 PM

#59

LeonhartAugust

Voltekka!

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Sep 2017

4630

I'm afraid that Tate no Yuusha will become haremfied.

Nov 24, 2017 11:51 PM

#60

ya_hallo

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Sep 2015

795

I still can't comprehend why SAO isn't a harem anime.

Nov 24, 2017 11:56 PM

#61

Cabron

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Jan 2013

5351

I laugh in the face of anyone who hasn't seen anything by Mr. Masaki Kajishima.
Like the Tenchi Muyo Ryo-Ohki OVAs, where Mr. Kajishima actually gives the girls goals and reasons for falling for the MC and actually goes through with the harem ending.

CabronNov 25, 2017 12:07 AM

Please learn about cel animation and its technical process.
Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers.

Nov 25, 2017 12:01 AM

#62

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Jul 2015

806

Some comments pointing out the negatives of harem series can also be read more here >>> http://magsoku.blomaga.jp/articles/60325.html

37 : 超高校級の名無しさん : 2016-05-27 03:30 ID:MjNlN2Q4 ▼このコメントに返信
俺もハーレム苦手
登場人物多いのに薄っぺらな事前設定以外は全て主人公を中心に人間関係が成り立っているのが萎える
主人公だからある程度までは仕方ないけど人間関係までファンタジーって都合が良すぎるよ
だからその都合の良さをを求めるコミュ障みたいな奴にしか需要が無いのだと思う
普通の人はハーレムものなんて一回見ればお腹いっぱいでしょ

My Summary of this post : He doesn't quite like harems too. He feels quite displeased at seeing how all the character relationship dynamics gets too centered on the MC despite there being so many main cast characters. It might be somewhat acceptable since he's the MC, but it is just too convenient for the character dynamics to be Fantasy-like too. That's why he thinks the demand for such shows are only limited to those with communication problems seeking for such convenient settings. He lastly commented on how common people would already feel quite full and satisfied watching Harem shows just once.

My Comment : I 100 percent totally agree with all that he said.
It's true that some Otakus with communication problems IRL really seek escapism in those harem shows, since in those shows, they don't have to do anything proactive and all the girls will come flocking to you just by doing normal stuff any person on Earth can do if any of us have Cheat Abilities given to us by God.

Otakus hate shows where the MC has to work hard and use so much effort to train just to get strong or get the girl's affections like in real life, so they seek the easy way out at escapism by watching such harem shows where they can fantasize about not having to put any effort, blood, sweat and tears just to achieve success with getting the girls. That's why those Otakus avoid shows with the themes of working hard and striving with effort, and instead prefer watching shows with the themes of having cheat OP powers from the very beginning, as it reflects how they are lazy to put in any effort to achieve success in real life. In other words, they want all the good stuff to be spoon fed onto their mouths with a gold platter and golden utensils by chikcs that flock to them for no reason.

However, I am someone that prefers realism, especially when it concerns character dynamics, so that's why I'd prefer for shows with a majority female cast have at least 2 males in the main cast, so that both of those males including the MC can each get their own girls, as it's more believable and entertaining to watch such a plot than one where the single male MC monopolized all the affection from the female cast.

Nov 25, 2017 2:16 AM

#63

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Jul 2015

806

I mean, I don't care if the 2 male characters of the main cast are both OP with cheat abilities, but at least show some kind of effort at depicting how the other girls came to like them. Like for example, either of them risking their lives in saving the girls' lives, helping them a lot in studies etc.

Since there are many harem shows where the MC doesn't have to do anything positive to help out the heroines, but they still automatically came to like the MC from the very beginning without any acceptable and realistic reason. Like for example, Sarashiki Tatenashi from Infinite Stratos. What is the reason for him to like and make sexual advances at the MC ?????? Doesn't she know that the MC already has so many other girls after him ? Does she aim for the MC just because he's the only boy in the school ???? Has the MC saved her life ? Has the MC helped her a lot with her studies and training ??? Does she has a fetish of liking to bully and tease weaker boys ??? I mean, Ichika is not even as OP as other Battle Harem characters, so I find her attracted to Ichika quite unbelievable and illogical. If I am a girl, I won't like such a weak and dense person who has almost no redeeming qualities and no strong self-identity and passionate goals.

I mean, there are plenty of Harem shows where the reason for the girls to like the MC is pretty unrealistic and illogical, as in some Harem shows, there are 1-2 other male characters that are even better in personality and manliness than the MC.

Like for example, if I am a girl, and I became Claudia in the Asterisk War world, I would definitely choose Lester over Ayato. Why the heck would I want to choose Ayato, who looks pretty lame and have a plain face compared to the handsome MCs in other shows ???? Lester at least looked more Macho, tough, hardworking, passionate in his own goals and motivations at training to get stronger and more handsome compared to Ayato, so if I am Claudia, I will definitely pick Lester over Ayato.

If I am a girl, I won't choose a guy just based on his looks, wealth, or strength, as I will be more attracted to a guy based on his character and inner qualities, so Lester, who is a real man with a passionate drive and strong motivation for his own personal self growth, and an overall nice guy who just wanted to prove his own worth in fighting and be accepted by others, would be my first choice, compared to the lame Ayato that has no motivations, no goals, and no self-identity.

Besides, I am someone that likes to root for the underdog striving to get better, so as Claudia, I'd like to have a more intimate relationship with Lester as I feel pity at him not being able to achieve his goals despite training hard, so as Claudia, I'd want to help train him and make him stronger so that one day he can surpass Ayato.

I mean Ayato is just a blank state robotic character that I don't find any attraction in. At least Kurosaki Ichigo from Bleach, and Akatsuki from Hagure Yuusha, have more redeeming qualities than Ayato, and both of them are more handsome and muscular than Ayato, and also have a more wild, reliable and manly personality than the lame Ayato, so if I am Claudia, I'd definitely pick either of those 3 males rather than Ayato.

Therefore, there must be more Battle series in the futute where some girls of the main cast are attracted to a second male character, like in some fanfics. That'd make the story more interesting, dynamic, and realistic than one where the story had just revolved around the single male MC.

Nov 25, 2017 4:59 AM

#64

Deknijff

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Oct 2013

7889

@Pullman Im sorry I have to ask after you wrote that wall of text its just honestly it feels like a giant rant so I was having a hard time forcing myself to read it
but if I'm not mistaken in short you'd say its not ok for a show were the MC has a girlfriend to also have a harem?
but I'm not fully understanding why you're saying its not normal. I mean one person can attract lots of people at the same time and even if they're dating someone that doesn't mean those other girls can just magically erase their feelings

Nov 25, 2017 5:20 AM

#65

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Jan 2015

1903

BurningSpirit said:
It's just a "feel good" addition to the entire series. Especially because this is the kind of thing that the viewers lap up.

You talk about Western movie having a romance or love triangle of the side, but imo it's the same thing. It's painfully poorly executed and pretty lame. Having a normal ol' movie fantasy going through the entire plot (with no hint of romance ever), then near the end, BAM confession and couple, final kiss, then credits. Like wtf? What a fucking unnecessary romance. But people still lap that crappy romance up.

Admittedly the unnecessary harem in some Japanese anime is way worse than just an unnecessary crappy romance some Western movies. After all an unnecessary crappy romance can be done with a guy and a girl in most normal main casts, on the other hand it requires the addition of mostly trophy girls to achieve an unnecessary harem, most of which have terrible character development given their status as trophy girls.

Well obviously instead of developing a harem there could be a development of a romance between 2 characters, which would be more satisfying imo.

@StrangerMist Well it is....unfortunately.

Nov 25, 2017 5:26 AM

#66

Alcoholicide

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Feb 2010

34597

Deknijff said:
@Pullman Im sorry I have to ask after you wrote that wall of text its just honestly it feels like a giant rant so I was having a hard time forcing myself to read it
but if I'm not mistaken in short you'd say its not ok for a show were the MC has a girlfriend to also have a harem?
but I'm not fully understanding why you're saying its not normal. I mean one person can attract lots of people at the same time and even if they're dating someone that doesn't mean those other girls can just magically erase their feelings

you name me one anime where the MC just goes 'girl, btfo I have a girlfriend and I'm not trying to whore around like an asshole because I HAVE A GIRLFRIEND already. Are we clear on that? Thanks.' when these random girls throw themselves at him and I'm gonna be fine with more girl being into them as long as, you know, they flesh out their attraction and all that stuff and use it for romance and characterization instead of only fanservice (which is already not gonna happen in any of the shows I listed). If that's not the case, the guy is being an utter prick and I can't enjoy watching it or take the supposedly romantic relationship seriously because obviously the show and the guy MC don't either. So don't make it seem like I'm ignoring the flourishing romance aspects in this show because I'm blinded by the harem stuff. It is blatantly transparent when multiple people liking one person is used for characterization, romance, drama and whatnot and when it's just a plot device to generate harem fanservice and should get the fucking tag so people know what to expect.

And it never happens, that it is treated in a non-fanservice way, because these anime I'm talking about are not about romance and the girlfriend is a pure technicality existing in name only, but not in terms of actual intimacy, an actual relationship, or actual feelings of loyalty the guy feels towards her. As far as I can tell the girlfriend situation is only in these shows to bait people into thinking it's not gonna be 100% harem. Which it literally is. You could take any 'official' harem, label one of the girls MCs gf and change NOTHING about the script and the only difference would be that MAL would probably not tag it as a harem so poor suckers like me will try it out because they think it's gonna have actual romance.

I don't care how you justify the complete lack of intention of writing any real romance in those shows but one way or the other they ARE harems and should be tagged as such.

I probably regret this post by now.

Nov 25, 2017 5:28 AM

#67

BurningSpirit

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Nov 2014

4049

ImAWeebUwU said:
Well obviously instead of developing a harem there could be a development of a romance between 2 characters, which would be more satisfying imo.

Properly developing a romance is easier than properly developing a harem, because of the number of relationship they have to develop.

Too bad most movies are still terrible at it. Movies that just magic romance at the end are still pretty common.

Nov 25, 2017 5:39 AM

#68

youseiki

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Mar 2016

1520

Japanese Harem (Beta): Vague Relationship, girls are used to show how awesome the MC is, the girls are the one who initiates, easy to get girls, Dense, dragged, ecchi,

Chinese Harem: saves a lot of girls then rapes them, uses drugs or pills for aphrodisiac purposes, use seductive power to attract girls, "Jade Like Skin" is an instant magnet to the Main Character, short time trophy, not even worthy of being displayed, all girls are one dimensional bitches made to be a fuck hole for the mc, eventually throws them out of the plot after being used to introduced another fucking hole.

Japanese Harem (Alpha): fucks girls, uses rape often then attraction blooms, treats them like a bitch, or reverse which is the princess treatment, a lot of girls are remembered, porn novel.

You should know the conclusion by now why there's a harem.

Nov 25, 2017 5:56 AM

#69

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Jul 2015

806

For anyone who can read Japanese, have you guys already read the fanfic of Seirei Tsukai with the 2nd male character, Kakeru ? It's very entertaining, am I right ?

Both Kamito and Kakeru are both paired with their respective girls, and I am quite relieved that the main girl for Kakeru is not a Tsundere like Kamito's main girl, so I think that story is more fun to read than the source material, IMHO. Of course, the Author there hadn't wrote some important scenes from Kamito's perspective with his interactions with Claire, as we can already read that in the First Volume of the LN. But, a new original series could easily cover both male leads' POVs, however that would mean the story would be much longer.

So, a dual male protagonist story where the Author needs to write more scenes covering both males' POVs would result in a much longer story compared to a Single Male Lead Harem, but the benefits outweight the losses, as we as readers will be able to enjoy more entertaining and funny slice of life comedic and heartwarming moments and scenes involving the 2 groups of girls that will each like any of the 2 male leads of their choice depending on who starts interacting with who, which girl the 1st and 2nd male leads had the chance to initiate some memorable events with, and which male lead gets their flags raised for which girls, et cetera.

So, just to make a "What-If" Imagination of how we can realize how much better Single Male Harems would be had there been a 2nd male in the main cast that gets his own girl, I want all of you to picture this 3 revised settings for existing harems in your mind.

1. Picture a new revised version of Asterisk War with Lester becoming as strong as Ayato and Claudia falling in love with Lester. Both Ayato's harem and this new couple will play equally important roles in the story. Now make a conclusion and try to judge in your mind whether this version would be better than the existing source material, or not.

2. Picture a new revised version of Trinity Seven with a 2nd male lead having special powers as the MC too in the main cast. While MC gets the main girl, and one other loyal close female companion, the 2nd male lead gets 2 other girls fighting for his attention.

3. Picture a new revised version of Saijaku Muhai no Bahamut where a 2nd male lead also enters Lux's Academy and gets the blondie, Celestia, and Nokuto to like him, while Lux gets the main girl Lisesharte and 2 other girls including Krulcifer in his small harem.

I have already read so many fanfics of those series with a 2nd guy, and I find them all to be far more entertaining than the source works.

So my question is, why can't more future Light Novel Battle Anime feature more series where a 2nd strong male character also gets his own girls like the MC ? Can anyone answer this question ? I mean, we still get to see so many cute waifus, and NTR will be absolutely forbidden from developing, since that is off-genre, and both males will each get their own loyal groupies of female companions anyways, so what's stopping this more entertaining setting ?

CoolitzHubertXVINov 25, 2017 6:08 AM

Nov 25, 2017 6:06 AM

#70

youseiki

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Mar 2016

1520

CoolitzHubertXVI said:

So my question is, why can't more future Light Novel Battle Anime feature more series where a 2nd strong male character also gets his own girls like the MC ? Can anyone answer this question ? I mean, we still get to see so many cute waifus, and NTR will be absolutely forbidden from developing, since that is off-genre, and both males will each get their own loyal groupies of female companions anyways, so what's stopping this more entertaining setting ?

Damn, that's a good setting, and the closest one is Sevens so far, the novel in my signature. The MC has befriended a jealous guy because he doesn't have a harem, then after some adventure, his best friend got a harem too. While the MC is an emperor, his best friend was a King, both got harem end.
Edited: But I can't answer that question, though I got some novels for you pal
(https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/mcs-best-friend-got-a-harem-too.53136/)

youseikiNov 25, 2017 6:58 AM

Nov 25, 2017 6:10 AM

#71

Half-MagePrince

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Sep 2017

840

If you are an author, you have to add a little side genre to increase the popularity of your work. That's why most LN or manga uses harem to increase their sales.
Just sayin'.

Nov 25, 2017 6:22 AM

#72

Deknijff

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Oct 2013

7889

Pullman said:
you name me one anime where the MC just goes 'girl, btfo I have a girlfriend and I'm not trying to whore around like an asshole because I HAVE A GIRLFRIEND already. Are we clear on that?

Considering how rare it is to find anime with established couples early on Im not sure I could find a show like that thats also a harem. But point taken. Its seems to be more common for a MC to just idly stand by and do nothing

Pullman said:
If that's not the case, the guy is being an utter prick and I can't enjoy watching it or take the supposedly romantic relationship seriously because obviously the show and the guy MC don't either. So don't make it seem like I'm ignoring the flourishing romance aspects in this show because I'm blinded by the harem stuff. It is blatantly transparent when multiple people liking one person is used for characterization, romance, drama and whatnot and when it's just a plot device to generate harem fan service and should get the fucking tag so people know what to expect.

Well I certainly understand the frustration of a romance not being fleshed out enough as I just recently watched a show that made me feel unsatisfied in that aspect but why bring up the tag?
Isn't it better to judge how well a show does in what it does and not if MAL is tagging it correctly?
I mean yeah if MAL could tag better that would be a blessing but Im not understanding its importance here in terms of show themselves

Pullman said:
And it never happens, that it is treated in a non-fanservice way, because these anime I'm talking about are not about romance and the girlfriend is a pure technicality existing in name only, but not in terms of actual intimacy, an actual relationship, or actual feelings of loyalty the guy feels towards her. As far as I can tell the girlfriend situation is only in these shows to bait people into thinking it's not gonna be 100% harem. Which it literally is. You could take any 'official' harem, label one of the girls MCs gf and change NOTHING about the script and the only difference would be that MAL would probably not tag it as a harem so poor suckers like me will try it out because they think it's gonna have actual romance.

I don't care how you justify the complete lack of intention of writing any real romance in those shows but one way or the other they ARE harems and should be tagged as such.

well if a show is a harem I agree it should be tagged as one
I wouldn't say though that just because a show is a romance show and a harem there is no actual romance considering the romance in harem shows like Zero no Tsukaima, Hayate the Combat Butler, Clannad, Ai Yori Aoshi and Jitsu wa Watashi wa exist and have plenty of romance exclusive focus

Nov 25, 2017 7:06 AM

#73

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Jan 2015

1903

Yes, people can't control their feelings, so It's normal for more girls to love the same guy, what's not normal is that the guy with a gf loves all of them, and won't just tell them off...

Nov 25, 2017 7:42 AM

#74

Alcoholicide

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Feb 2010

34597

Deknijff said:

The issue is just that I don't want to watch harems and that's why I rant about the tagging because when a show is tagged romance, drama, comedy etc.. but not harem I don't expect a harem so it's just frustrating to get them still and not just once or twice over the years but actually fairly regularly, especially recently and especially if you're trying to watch some ecchi. The least you could expect is to be able to avoid what you know you hate but when people are actually in denial regarding what a show is about even that can become difficult.

I'm not here to argue about the quality of harems. I personally find them inherently cringy because I hate the concept of a harem and there isn't really any context in which I'd enjoy anything that focuses mainly on a harem. Heck, even in doujins I prefer 1on1 stuff. I also think that romance and harem are opposite of each other, almost contradictory to each other because my idea of romance is purely monogamous and the polygamy angle destroys everything I value in romance. So there's just no question of 'doing a harem right' as far as I'm concerned. I inherently dislike it and that's why I talk about tagging and not how well a show does at being a harem (it isn't even officially tagged as). I leave that to the people who actually want to watch them, I just want to be able to avoid them.

You're free to disagree but I'm not here to discuss my strong and one-sided opinions on harems. Those are set in stone. I know what genres I dislike and in any other case (like mahou shoujo) I can easily avoid it with some research. I just want to understand/rant about how so many titles who are obviously harems first and foremost manage to convince their audience that they aren't and therefore don't get the tag. Because I know it isn't just one or two mods who keep the tag away from them, especially in some of the more popular cases where it isn't the main focus the fans will get really aggressive if you mention their harem aspects.

You don't see that with any other tag. Lots of tags get applied very liberally if there's even a hint of it in the show, even ecchi. But harems get ignored unless it's the only thing the show is about or at least it's extremely in your face about it, and even sometimes when it is the only thing the show is about, as long as you attach a random meaningless GF to the MC. Especially if the show is of any popularity. Idk, I feel like harem fans should care at least as much as I do because right now it seems like the harem tag is used as a stigma less than as adescriptive tag about the content and people want to keep it away from shows that have any other appeal or even pretend they have any other appeal. Neither side can be happy with that.

P.S. Maybe there are harems who have actual romance. I never saw one because if they have the tag I'm never gonna watch it. None of the ones that I watched by accident because they weren't tagged qualified to call themselves romance anime as far as I'm concerned. And in any case I can't imagine it being done in any way that I wouldn't find terrible and devaluing the romance and emphasizing the fanservice but whatever, I'll give you that they can exist. But idk, if they have as much romance as someting like Okusama or hajimete no gal then we'll just have to disagree, because that just doesn't count as romance to me, especially not when constantly overshadowed by the intrusion of other harem members.

I probably regret this post by now.

Nov 25, 2017 7:43 AM

#75

Xaelath

Offline

Aug 2014

1681

Either author running out of ideas or it was the selling point of the series.

While the quality of harem normally based on how it progresses and how it ends.
How it supposed to end are a proper break up, setting aside the harem flag and focus on the story (something similar to d-frag), and an actual harem ending.

Tbh i already dislike a harem anime that doesn't end up a harem, unless it has reasons to be realistic.
Especially on the terms of romance genre that doesn't fully focused it genres.

A cliche must be avoided at all cost to make a unique harem but that doesn't mean it's bad if it's unavoided (to love Ru, monster Musume).
Like i said it really depends on how it executed.

Nov 25, 2017 8:44 AM

#76

Deknijff

Offline

Oct 2013

7889

Pullman said:
The issue is just that I don't want to watch harems and that's why I rant about the tagging because when a show is tagged romance, drama, comedy etc.. but not harem I don't expect a harem so it's just frustrating to get them still and not just once or twice over the years but actually fairly regularly, especially recently and especially if you're trying to watch some ecchi. The least you could expect is to be able to avoid what you know you hate but when people are actually in denial regarding what a show is about even that can become difficult.

eh ok well I understand that its annoying that you find stuff you dislike so sorry about that

Pullman said:
I'm not here to argue about the quality of harems. I personally find them inherently cringy because I hate the concept of a harem and there isn't really any context in which I'd enjoy anything that focuses mainly on a harem. Heck, even in doujins I prefer 1on1 stuff. I also think that romance and harem are opposite of each other, almost contradictory to each other because my idea of romance is purely monogamous and the polygamy angle destroys everything I value in romance. So there's just no question of 'doing a harem right' as far as I'm concerned. I inherently dislike it and that's why I talk about tagging and not how well a show does at being a harem (it isn't even officially tagged as). I leave that to the people who actually want to watch them, I just want to be able to avoid them.

Well Pullman I don’t really know what to say. I get you prefer one romance scenario but I wouldn’t say just because that harems are the polar opposite of romance.
Most harems don’t end in harems and are mostly focused on girls falling for the MC. So harems are more so a collective of girls competing for love and their interactions because of it. They are romance series in that aspect at least. Now of course if that is a major focus or not depends on the show in question and how much time is devoted to that aspect.
The show could also be about the MC struggling to understand how he feels about all these girls who say they love him so it can be a romance in that department too

Pullman said:
You're free to disagree but I'm not here to discuss my strong and one-sided opinions on harems. Those are set in stone. I know what genres I dislike and in any other case (like mahou shoujo) I can easily avoid it with some research. I just want to understand/rant about how so many titles who are obviously harems first and foremost manage to convince their audience that they aren't and therefore don't get the tag. Because I know it isn't just one or two mods who keep the tag away from them, especially in some of the more popular cases where it isn't the main focus the fans will get really aggressive if you mention their harem aspects.

You don't see that with any other tag. Lots of tags get applied very liberally if there's even a hint of it in the show, even ecchi. But harems get ignored unless it's the only thing the show is about or at least it's extremely in your face about it, and even sometimes when it is the only thing the show is about, as long as you attach a random meaningless GF to the MC. Especially if the show is of any popularity. Idk, I feel like harem fans should care at least as much as I do because right now it seems like the harem tag is used as a stigma less than as adescriptive tag about the content and people want to keep it away from shows that have any other appeal or even pretend they have any other appeal. Neither side can be happy with that.

Well if you don’t want to talk about the subject matter of this thread and just complain at fans who refuse the truth of their shows and MAL’s tagging system I don’t have anything to say here

Pullman said:
P.S. Maybe there are harems who have actual romance. I never saw one because if they have the tag I'm never gonna watch it. None of the ones that I watched by accident because they weren't tagged qualified to call themselves romance anime as far as I'm concerned. And in any case I can't imagine it being done in any way that I wouldn't find terrible and devaluing the romance and emphasizing the fanservice but whatever, I'll give you that they can exist. But idk, if they have as much romance as something like Okusama or hajimete no gal then we'll just have to disagree, because that just doesn't count as romance to me, especially not when constantly overshadowed by the intrusion of other harem members.

Well the series I mentioned have a lot more romance focus than those 2 shows

ImAWeebUwU said:
Yes, people can't control their feelings, so It's normal for more girls to love the same guy, what's not normal is that the guy with a gf loves all of them, and won't just tell them off...

Depends on the context of the scene. The MC could be feeling emotionally weak, isn't acting like himself, the tension of the moment was right or the MC could just be a douche like Makoto from School Days

Nov 25, 2017 8:55 AM

#77

84DaysWithout

Offline

Nov 2009

842

Many romance anime are adaptations of Visual Novels.

Nov 25, 2017 10:38 AM

#78

quickwork

Offline

Nov 2017

Most of the series op describes are self inserts and we all want to be a ladies man in self insert but that trend has gotten old and stale and many like myself who can enjoy a good self insert want more diversity in how the female affections are distributed.SAO for example i cant truly believe kirito is that great because the males in the world of SAO are either beta cucks , creepy perverts,or too old.Can u really feel superior if your literally the only choice?

Nov 25, 2017 11:25 AM

#79

AdrianRubinsky

Offline

Jul 2015

1026

If I had a publishing company, I would fully support a Harem writer.

Why Harem?

Because:
1- No need to develop romantic relationships. Teasing and misunderstandings are easier to write.

2- More girls equals more merchandise (and more money)

3- You can drag as long as you want who the MC will chose (to keep the money coming)

4- You can end without MC choosing anyone. The objective is to sell girls merchandise anyway. They all need to stay pure.

5- The story can be trash-tier and still be profitable because of all the waifus

6- Adding an Isekai setting is a plus, but not necessary

As a reader however, it is one of the most annoying materials for me if I want some character development.

AdrianRubinskyNov 25, 2017 11:28 AM

Nov 25, 2017 1:19 PM

#80

Offline

Jan 2015

1903

AdrianRubinsky said:
If I had a publishing company, I would fully support a Harem writer.

Why Harem?

Because:
1- No need to develop romantic relationships. Teasing and misunderstandings are easier to write.

2- More girls equals more merchandise (and more money)

3- You can drag as long as you want who the MC will chose (to keep the money coming)

4- You can end without MC choosing anyone. The objective is to sell girls merchandise anyway. They all need to stay pure.

5- The story can be trash-tier and still be profitable because of all the waifus

6- Adding an Isekai setting is a plus, but not necessary

As a reader however, it is one of the most annoying materials for me if I want some character development.

Sad, but I have to say it's mostly true.

Nov 29, 2017 5:57 AM

#81

nymi

Offline

Sep 2017

2999

For the nth time dont question those animator's taste. You will never come with a convincing answer. EVER.

"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed"

-Swagernator 2017

Nov 29, 2017 6:23 AM

#82

Offline

Jul 2015

806

Besides, what is the appeal of having a show with ALL the members of one gender fawning, idolizing, and romantically attracted to the one SINGLE MALE protagonist?

For me, I don't feel at all moved to watch a show where all the girls like just ONE GUY, as it feels unnatural, and reeks of the Author/Creator of the Show trying to create a self-projected image of himself as the Single Male Lead in that story as one person who is always adored, respected, or accepted/worshipped by many other people, which are in this case, females. I think I can express it much more accurately in Japanese >> つまり, ハーレムアニメは作者や読者の「周りの人間に認められたい, 褒めてもらいたい願望を満たしくれる作品だ」

However, it doesn't satisfy me that much to watch where only one single male gets all the girls. Why ? Because, unlike some lonely Otakus who have never even had one Best Male Friend, and can't relate to sharing their happy times with a close male friend, I on the other hand, had a very close Best Friend, male, in my past, during my High School Days. So, other than many other reasons why I'd like for there to be a 2nd male in a majority female cast Anime, this is also one of the major personal reason why I can't relate to a show where all the female cast like just one male character.

I don't have much friends then, however there is one male who's a very close friend of mine whom I can talk to about anything my heart needs to express or confess about. His family moved overseas along with himself, so I had not been in touch with him for the past 8 years, but he is the only male in my entire life who I could call a Best Friend. No other person. So I know very well the preciousness and importance of having a Best Friend of the same gender. In fact, I was so close to him at that time that I could even call him my "Soulmate", as I he appears in my dreams almost once a week. Most of the dreams with him are about both of us embarking and endeavouring in all sorts of activities together as best of pals.

So I have very memorable times with my Best Friend, so that is why I can't relate if there's a Harem Anime where only one male MC gets all the girl's attentions. On the contrary, I'd much prefer watching a Double Male Lead Harem series, where 2 Males each gets their own company of loyal female comrades, or a Multiple Couples Anime, where 3 Males in the Main Cast each gets their own girls, like DBZ's Goku-Chichi, Vegeta-Bulma, and Krillin-Android 18.

Because of that, I prefer stories where not just one male, but a minimum of 2 males that are each getting equal benefits and equal spotlight moments in the show, as I project my IRL Best Friend as that 2nd male character, so I want both myself and my best friend to get equal benefits and equal happiness, as I value very much Friendship. So if I get the girl(s), I'd want the same of my best friend too, so that is why I can not like any Harem Anime where only one Single Male gets the affection of all the female cast, as it seems like as if I am kicking and sidelining my poor best male friend aside to selfishly monopolize all the benefits for myself, and that is something that I couldn't do, as I am very loyal to my IRL Best Friend, as he has helped me a lot in my High School days, and without him, I wouldn't be where I am now.

Nov 29, 2017 7:16 AM

#83

Nas

Offline

May 2016

1626

It's there so you can add more waifu's to your list

~ Nas, The "OG Bulgarian"~
Formerly known as:
~ Gokuvich, The "OG Bulgarian"~

Nov 30, 2017 7:13 AM

#84

Pikangie

Offline

Feb 2010

124

ImAWeebUwU said:
I was thinking about this, because I encountered in some stuff i've been reading/watching recently.
If something is intended to be harem, that's completely fine, but many series has the harem as a side thing, and it could do perfectly fine without it. E.g: The rise of the shield hero, sao and many more.
The harem has nothing to do with the main plot, it's just there as a side thing, so the question is, compared to the west, why does japan prefer this type of thing over like a normal romance between the MC and a heroine?
Most western series do have love triangles, and stuff like that, but at the end there is usually one pairing which ends up together, compared to the at least 2 in these anime/manga/LN series. What's the point of it, when it adds absolutely nothing to the plot?

This is how I felt towards the PSO2 anime.
A sci-fi game that you can choose either gender, and has NPCs of both genders... but they chose to make the anime adaptation of it into a generic school harem with the generic boring male protag where the only redeeming quality he has is his voice actor being Shouta Aoi. =_=

It's really the companies trying too hard to cater to the male sex organ with disregard to everything else.
Often it's also because the lack of a good/interesting story or character development, they might choose to cover it up by making it a fantasy-harem and hoping guys won't care about the story (which must work since they keep doing it?).

Nov 30, 2017 1:51 PM

#85

Hoppy

Offline

Nov 2008

27788

It's because of the LN medium and how it's become rotten since the early 2010's, there are a lot of bad LNs out there and many are harem series or ones with harem elements in them. Also, you have a lot of Otaku novelists which wouldn't be bad, if they explored other genres besides harem, isekai, and romcom more often, however it's not the case and it shows.

Nov 30, 2017 3:04 PM

#86

PeppermintHearts

Offline

Jul 2015

2373

For starters, many anime series are based on manga, so it's the mangaka, and the manga publishers, that are responsible for the harems most of the time.
I like the harems, even the reverse harems, most of the time it's just silly romantic comedy stuff. The harem characters are weird, diverse, and most of the time obsessive, so it makes for some weird situations.
Harems are unique to anime, and should be appreciated as part of the world of anime.

Dec 1, 2017 6:55 AM

#87

Offline

Jul 2015

806

Guys, I just read the review of the latest Light Novel volume of Seirei Tsukai no Blade Dance, Volume 16, that Jio Inzagi is released from prison by Kamito and company and back in action in the last scenes of that Volume.

I wonder what's the point of bringing in that male character, since the Author of that LN is gonna mistreat him again just to make the MC Kamito look good and superior in front of all the girls in his harem, so what's the point of it other than to make those who project into Inzagi feel miserable and jealous at the MC ?

Most Light Novels with Battles in it always loves to villify and mistreat all male characters that are not the MC, and that causes my heart to feel pain very much.

Whatever happened to the Kuwabaras, Hieis, Krillins, Vegetas and other 2nd good male characters in LN ???

2 Couples in Yuyu Hakusho : Kuwabara with Ice Demon Yukina, and Urameshi with Keiko.

3 Couples in DBZ : Goku-Chichi, Krillin-Android 18, Vegeta-Bulma

Single Male Harems always causes my heart to feel pain watching them. I don't feel that way when reading World's End Harem manga, because in that manga, 2 males already got their own harem, so if there are 2 males each getting their own girls, I won't feel jealous at all compared to one where only 1 male gets his own harem.

Since I have a Best Male Friend in the past and value my friendship with him very much, I project my IRL best friend as that 2nd male character, so I don't like it if only one male gets all the girls, so that's why I prefer watching more Battle Anime that either has Multiple Couples, or Double Male Harems, as I'd want my male friend to get his own girls and happiness too with loyal female comrades.

Dec 1, 2017 7:20 AM

#88

Valenthius

Offline

Aug 2013

2694

Cuz it's the hot new thing when it comes to escapism. That and being transferred to a "new world".
The otakus love it, and spend money on it, and they need that since anime is making too small of a profit as is. They'll milk anything as long as to keep it alive. If it keeps getting watched it's just gonna get worse. I say get used to it. There's a much bigger chance of it fading away eventually, and a new cancer replacing it, so you need not worry.

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Dec 1, 2017 7:29 AM

#89

Offline

Nov 2017

207

AdrianRubinsky said:
2- More girls equals more merchandise (and more money)

It's not a sure thing that there will be an anime adaptation, or that it will be popular enough for sustained merchandising. And how much can the publisher even expect after manufacturers and the production committee members take their cut?

3- You can drag as long as you want who the MC will chose (to keep the money coming)

You can make any story go on forever with or without a harem. Berserk has been running since 1989. And it's not like there isn't almost always an obvious heroine.

4- You can end without MC choosing anyone. The objective is to sell girls merchandise anyway. They all need to stay pure.

The objective is to sell manga and novels. The author's objective is to write what they want to write. I don't see Senjougahara, Asuna or Saber suffering from a lack of popularity because they're not "pure."

5- The story can be trash-tier and still be profitable because of all the waifus

They aren't "waifus," and there is nothing so special about a bunch of female characters that it would make copies (of whatever) fly off the shelves. Female characters are a dime a dozen in manga, light novels, anime and games.

When Westerners see something they don't like, the response is always the same: there is an ulterior motive behind it. Some suit or bean counter or unscrupulous editor or author calculated it all for maximum profit. There's no way anyone could seriously like this shit, even though at the same time it keeps selling, which means people do like it.

Dec 1, 2017 7:34 AM

#90

Offline

Nov 2017

207

Valenthius said:
Cuz it's the hot new thing when it comes to escapism. That and being transferred to a "new world".
The otakus love it, and spend money on it, and they need that since anime is making too small of a profit as is. They'll milk anything as long as to keep it alive. If it keeps getting watched it's just gonna get worse. I say get used to it. There's a much bigger chance of it fading away eventually, and a new cancer replacing it, so you need not worry.

Harem anime has been around for a long time and isn't particularly profitable.

Dec 1, 2017 7:51 AM

#91

Valenthius

Offline

Aug 2013

2694

Saint_Nepunepu said:

Harem anime has been around for a long time and isn't particularly profitable.

Its been there for a long time, but now there are elements of it in almost every recent show.
Nobody was talking about specifically harem shows, but rather the recent "haremification" of many shows, and it being present as a "side thing" where it just isn't needed.
If there isn't a demand for it, why is it there??

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Dec 1, 2017 7:59 AM

#92

Offline

Nov 2017

207

Valenthius said:
Its been there for a long time, but now there are elements of it in almost every recent show.
Nobody was talking about specifically harem shows, but rather the recent "haremification" of many shows, and it being present as a "side thing" where it just isn't needed.
If there isn't a demand for it, why is it there??

The harem element is as simple and vague as multiple women being possibly interested in the male protagonist or vice versa. It can thus appear anywhere and isn't necessarily a result of any intentional addition of a harem element. There's no "demand" for it, people just like female characters.

Dec 1, 2017 8:12 AM

#93

CrimsonMidnight

Offline

Jan 2010

6533

nbyung09 said:
Monogatari girls is replaced by boys.... oh my god

Where can I find this anime

OT:
It's kind of annoying yeah, especially if the guy is kind of unattractive/bland self insert
I mean, I probably won't mind Bakugou harem because he is goat and I'm 100% understand if everyone want a piece of him

BISHIES X RAP

Dec 1, 2017 8:43 AM

#94

Valenthius

Offline

Aug 2013

2694

Saint_Nepunepu said:

Oh yeah. It's always been that people just like the female characters beacause of their well written backstories and personalities, they totally don't all have the hots for the MC, and people who like it totally don't imgaine themselves as the MC at all. Its just that people like female characters. That's why every anime with many female characters is so popular right?
Also, it's not like that harem elements are proven to be more effective audience number wise than any other way of putting multiple females in an anime story, and many people liking a certain thing doesn't not mean that mean that there is an indirect demand for it. It's not like there is such a thing cuz demand means that people directly say they demand it right? "I demand harems" was never said, and there for there is no demand. How could i have been so blind. Also there really isn't an overabundance of actual harem shows that do surprisingly well each and every sason for the past few years, as no one watches those. Everybody watches Love Live cuz there are many female characters yes?
The creators must really like female characters as well, the fact that they put so many harem elements is purely a coincidence, yes of course, that makes so much sense.
So if a thing is popular, it totally wont bring that audience to the shows that wouldn't necessarily have it in order to boost their popularity. That'd be stupid. It's just cuz they're female.
I apologize for being so wrong.

ValenthiusDec 1, 2017 8:46 AM

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Dec 1, 2017 8:57 AM

#95

Nonofficial_list

Offline

Dec 2017

I dont understand it either. If you really want fap that much there is hentai for it, right?

Dec 1, 2017 9:10 AM

#96

Offline

Nov 2017

207

Valenthius said:
Oh yeah. It's always been that people just like the female characters beacause of their well written backstories and personalities, they totally don't all have the hots for the MC, and people who like it totally don't imgaine themselves as the MC at all. Its just that people like female characters. That's why every anime with many female characters is so popular right?

There is no male MC in Love Live, K-On, Girls und Panzer, Princess Principal, Gochiusa, Madoka Magica, Kemono Friends, Lucky Star, Strike Witches, Hidamari Sketch, Kantai Collection and Touhou. People don't need a male MC to project themselves into. They don't need male characters at all. And why do you think Clannad for example doesn't even show the male MC in the opening animations? It's all about the girls.

Also, it's not like that harem elements are proven to be more effective audience number wise than any other way of putting multiple females in an anime story, and many people liking a certain thing doesn't not mean that mean that there is an indirect demand for it. It's not like there is such a thing cuz demand means that people directly say they demand it right? "I demand harems" was never said, and there for there is no demand. How could i have been so blind. Also there really isn't an overabundance of actual harem shows that do surprisingly well each and every sason for the past few years, as no one watches those.

What overabundance of successful harem shows is there? Busou Shoujo, Demi-chan, Gamers, Hajimete no Gal, Smartphone, Masamune-kun, Renai Boukun, Tenshi no 3P, Tsugumomo—these are harem or harem-like shows from this year, and they all had poor sales (Seiren, a sort of harem show, had poor sales as well). Eromanga-sensei and Saenai Heroine season two sold well, but that's about it.

Everybody watches Love Live cuz there are many female characters yes?

Love Live season two is currently the 8th best selling show of the century. LL Sunshine is 15th. It's kind of a popular franchise.

The creators must really like female characters as well, the fact that they put so many harem elements is purely a coincidence, yes of course, that makes so much sense.

How is liking female characters mutually exclusive with a harem setup?

Dec 1, 2017 9:11 AM

#97