Is Yuri on Ice actually gay or queerbait?
Most likely queerbait
33.1%
732
Probably turn out gay
66.9%
1,481
2,213 votes
| Out of curiosity, did anyone read Kubo's statements about the theme of YoI? I feel that, together with the attempt of making it sound more "heteronormative" by the subbers who had no idea what kind of show they were doing, would have solved a lot of these doubts. Or are you familiar with the fact with the director Yamamoto's handling of previous queer characters in her other shows? The character of Viktor is based, visually, mannerisms, charisma, etc on John Cameron Mitchell. Who is, you know, gay. Openly too. He came out in early 90s, iirc. She was inspired to make a character like Viktor after watching Hedwig and the Angry Inch in New York, her first inspiration for Yuri on Ice. You know, a heavy LGBT play about a genderqueer character in the show business (rock bands, not skating). Don't just focus on the boys kissing or flirting, focus too on the play of ambiguous image and appeal of feminity that Viktor has (with his obvious waif-and feminine like teenage self who looks more feminine than any woman in the show) or Yuuri trying to channel, seduce, talk, think and move like a woman. She obviously incorporated this brand of queerness in YoI because she likes it. Having LGBT themes =/= BL. And I think it goes further than whatever Yuuri and Viktor have. Again this doesn't mean hooking up and fluffy dates. |
ThessNov 18, 2016 10:49 PM
| Sometimes I wonder whether western people would stop screaming about their political position and label every BL anime with not standart plot "LGBT-friendly". Deal with it - japanese yaoi fans do not care about gays in real life (or at least watching a BL anime does not go in a set with LGBT). We just want to look at cute boys and their good original relationship. You want to protect gays and all the world - fine, but do not mix up cute anime boys and politics. |
| https://twitter.com/kubo_3260/status/768887667597520896 translation: "I don’t care at all about stories about wanting a lover or wanting to get married, and since boy-girl romance stories are a dime a dozen, who cares whether or not I write one? …I simply want to write a story about a healthy, deeply meaningful relationship…so I don’t feel compelled to have to write about a man-woman pair in that case. Though I suppose you can tell that from looking, so that’s all I’m going to say on the subject." |
gummyfang said: noteofallanime said: Sometimes I wonder whether western people would stop screaming about their political position and label every BL anime with not standart plot "LGBT-friendly". Deal with it - japanese yaoi fans do not care about gays in real life (or at least watching a BL anime does not go in a set with LGBT). We just want to look at cute boys and their good original relationship. You want to protect gays and all the world - fine, but do not mix up cute anime boys and politics. I'm well aware that most "fujoshis" don't care about actual LGBT people, and that the yaoi genre is nothing more than a fantasy to them. However, real LGBT people exist, and real LGBT people exist in Japan. Where do we draw the line between depiction of actual gay people and yaoi? Yuri On Ice is not labeled yaoi, BL, or shounen ai, therefore it's perfectly reasonable for people to think the romantic relationship between Yuuri and Victor is gay representation. I don't think every depiction of same gender relationships in Japan should be a sexual fantasy. Oh my Gosh I will tell you a little secret - there are tons of bara with your gay representation and LGBT characters etc., but you would probably vomit looking at them or have no liking cuz they were made for males. EVERY gay anime that oriented mostly on the female audience is BL/Yaoi/Shounen-Ai. According to logic of the thread, "Mr Mini Mart" and "Seven Days" are not BL because in these mangas characters care about each other - seriously lol? The fact tact that you know only "No Money" and "Boku ni Pico" as Yaoi does not make all the industry your standard "romantic" rape shit. The plot with cute boys that does not go all around drama and rape is still shounen-ai. And Yuri on Ice is Shounen-Ai, like it or not. You don't think.. How can you forbid people to make their own fantasies and express their sexuality? You are now better than homophobs who see only one true way of sexual fantasies. Besides this little cute anime about the hot Russian coach and the Japanese virgin would not reduce murders and discrimination of gay people, but of course young tumblr warriors would scream to death about it, thinking that watching this anime makes them TOLERANT and KIND and whatever forgetting that real gays in Iraqi are murdered by their own county.. I do not care about LGBT, but honestly, if I would, I would not pollute the anime thread and actually do something |
Alright, okay. Cool your jets. Unless you're intentionally trying to be some type of troll, there is no reason to be acting so over the top because someone wants a discussion. Other than the top paragraph, the other issues you're bringing into your post have nothing to do with what you're responding to. If you've got that much pent up frustration at whatever, just go rant on your blog or twitter. gummyfang said: I'm well aware that most "fujoshis" don't care about actual LGBT people, and that the yaoi genre is nothing more than a fantasy to them. However, real LGBT people exist, and real LGBT people exist in Japan. Where do we draw the line between depiction of actual gay people and yaoi? Yuri On Ice is not labeled yaoi, BL, or shounen ai, therefore it's perfectly reasonable for people to think the romantic relationship between Yuuri and Victor is gay representation. I don't think every depiction of same gender relationships in Japan should be a sexual fantasy. While I hate to say it, noteofallanime has a point in their response to you. I think YOI may be representation to some people outside of Japan and possibly even to some within Japan, but if you look at gei comi and bara comics you'd see just how different gay men view themselves and how their fantasies are from women's sexual fantasies in Japan. Viktor and Yuri are very much crafted to attract women more than men. These kind of shows can still be "representative" in some way to some people though, but westerners do have to take a step back and look at how their view of representation may not match a similar minority group from another country. Also to say that all fujoshi don't care about LGBT people is a bit of a blanket statement. Quite a few fujoshi and BL authors are within the LGBT community themselves. Also a few LGBT men are getting involved in making BL. The majority is still straight women, but due to some surveys in Japan it seems that more and more women are becoming more open to homosexuality than men. |
“Victor can’t be satisfied by anyone but me.”  |
I laughed out loud because I saw someone say on another site that even if it was a kiss it must be a "socialist kiss" because Viktor is Russian and you know how those Commies are with their peculiar foreign ways. It was so over the top I thought they were being sarcastic until they had a pro-Trump homophobic meltdown after being called on it. |
| It's so hypocrite that some of you try to convince us 'it's all about acceptance of gays', although you are obviously just fangirling over yaoi moments. You are free to have fantasies but forcing your view or call others delusional or homophobe is out of limit or at least lacks of respect. I do think is pointless argue over it anymore but please be honest. |
Frigyesur said: It's so hypocrite that some of you try to convince us 'it's all about acceptance of gays', although you are obviously just fangirling over yaoi moments. You are free to have fantasies but forcing your view or call others delusional or homophobe is out of limit or at least lacks of respect. I do think is pointless argue over it anymore but please be honest. i'm honest: on the other thread you said you'll stop baiting after the moderator got pissed yet you're continuing it here. you're not being any better than the others, you know? besides, what's the point arguing about something the show'll tell us by the end? if you have too high expectations you'll be disappointed in the end. this is naturally to both camps. |
TsururunNov 21, 2016 6:48 AM
Tsururun said: Frigyesur said: It's so hypocrite that some of you try to convince us 'it's all about acceptance of gays', although you are obviously just fangirling over yaoi moments. You are free to have fantasies but forcing your view or call others delusional or homophobe is out of limit or at least lacks of respect. I do think is pointless argue over it anymore but please be honest. i'm honest: on the other thread you said you'll stop baiting after the moderator got pissed yet you're continuing it here. you're not being any better than the others, you know? besides, what's the point arguing about something the show'll tell us by the end? if you have too hing expectations you'll be disappointed in the end. this is naturally to both camps. the moderator was more pissed on the fangirls, you know? besides, no point of course. i'm just fed up being called homophes or whatever by them. that's all. |
Frigyesur said: It's so hypocrite that some of you try to convince us 'it's all about acceptance of gays', although you are obviously just fangirling over yaoi moments. You are free to have fantasies but forcing your view or call others delusional or homophobe is out of limit or at least lacks of respect. I do think is pointless argue over it anymore but please be honest. The show is also about ice-skating, that's a point, if that's what you wanting to hear. However representing a gay relationship in an anime that didn't openly announced it right from the start and the main theme being ice-skating helps to consider this relationship as "not being taboo", so yes in the end it helps for the acceptance. And just for your information I'm no yaoi guy. I would have shipped Victor-Minako-sensei or any Yurio - Mila Babicheva anytime. |
| I wonder what's up with these trolls showing up in this thread? Did this show really upset their little heteronormative views? Let me grab the world's smallest violin for their plight to watch a gay-friendly show about a healthy relationship instead of walking BL stereotypes. It reminds me to the stench that happened in Haruchika when they realized the male protagonist was gay and he wasn't in love with his female childhood friend as any run in the mill series out there. They whined because it wasn't labeled as BL officially. Anyway, the saddest is they focus so much on trying to twist the homosocial relationship that miss the best of the show: making light of controversial topics. The show is gleefully taking hot topics of the real world and trashing them. Look at USA skater, in a context of racism and tensions, they purposefully chose Latino instead of typical Stereotypical Blonde American with wide blue eyes and blond hair which always appears in Anime. Look at the program that Phichit skates, it's a homosexual version of the King and I starting the bond and relationship of a male skater and the King of Thailand (yes, Kubo posted the script) which is apparently well loved and popular in his country. In case you ignored it, the King and I was forbidden in the real world's Thailand, marking it offensive in its portrayal of Thai royalty. Do you think she didn't know it? She obviously did. The show is pretty much grabbing controversial topics in the real world and showing them as no big deal in their fictional world, in fact, they are the opposite. The show has a strong social commentary under the innocent package. It's all aimed against the status quo. Kubo is a huge fan of John Cameron Mitchell, who serves as Viktor's model and inspiration for her writing. She traveled to Broadway to see him on stage. That alone should tell you what are her preferences. |
ThessNov 21, 2016 9:29 AM
Ysad_Ziwezhan said: Frigyesur said: It's so hypocrite that some of you try to convince us 'it's all about acceptance of gays', although you are obviously just fangirling over yaoi moments. You are free to have fantasies but forcing your view or call others delusional or homophobe is out of limit or at least lacks of respect. I do think is pointless argue over it anymore but please be honest. The show is also about ice-skating, that's a point, if that's what you wanting to hear. However representing a gay relationship in an anime that didn't openly announced it right from the start and the main theme being ice-skating helps to consider this relationship as "not being taboo", so yes in the end it helps for the acceptance. And just for your information I'm no yaoi guy. I would have shipped Victor-Minako-sensei or any Yurio - Mila Babicheva anytime. I emphasize SOME of you. Please don't tell me comments like ' I literally died when they kissed', 'I screamed loudly when I saw it' or my personal favourite 'I want this scene play during my funeral' (wtf) has anything to do with homosexual people' lives and rights. Thanks. I think I can't say anymore: 1. I'm not a troll, who thinks differently doesn't mean she is trolling 2. really, pretty please, try it: jump on someone and during the jump kiss him on the lips. impossible. more landing face side-to-side after it. the scene lasted for 2-3 seconds. but these 2-3 secs were slow motion what means it lasted even shorter. My repeated comments obviously boring, so I think I stop. Pointless if almost everyone ignores the reasonable remarks. |
FrigyesurNov 21, 2016 10:46 AM
Kyogreex said: And combined with the entire montage reference to Johnny Weir I think it becomes more difficult to shrug it off. Yeah. But my point is that Kubo is a fan of Mitchell who is a director and writer member and for the LGBT community. Went to America to see his work and she was fascinated. And she's been vocally against the heteronormative romance fiction in Japanese media (not straight romance, but mostly she thinks it's trite the same cliche of the same old story, if that makes sense). Look at Yuuri's sister, she's about 30 and nobody is pressuring her for marriage, is desperate to hook up or the show has refrained from making fun she's a Christmas Cake like you would expect in your Average Anime. Same with Yuuri's ballet teacher. Gotta peg them for really ignorant young users who don't see that Kubo is fairly progressive with her portrayal of female characters too, even if they are secondary. It's not just about Yuuri and Viktor only. Which they seem to obsess and dismiss their potential 'gayness' (like if it was cooties). Missing the whole point that Yuuri only gave a damn about Yuuko because she coached him in skating. All his deep bonds were about his passion and love for skating. The attraction he might feel is incidental to his practice. Yuuko and Viktor too. I agree. And I think it's worth pointing out that the show doesn't have to directly address a topic to serve as commentary. For example, we have the fact that Well, I think |
ThessNov 21, 2016 11:32 AM
Eh, every time they act gay in public they do get weird/embarrassed looks (like the infamous sauna scene in episode 4) It really feels like Yuuri and Victor are dancing to a different tune than everyone else in the world, I assume it's just the writers wanting to avoid unnecessary real world drama that could pull people out relationship/fantasy. |
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tunayoshii said: Lyrel said: I can't read japanese so idk if thats really true but if it was a kiss then WHY.NOT.JUST.SHOW.IT.TO.US whats with all this hinting,if they are gay for each other they could show us directly rather than all this beating around the bush, I want something definite not something vaguely that could have easily passed as a hug I'm sorry but I've actually seen a lot of your opinions on this matter and while yes, you do make a good point please don't forget a couple of things. Japan isn't that inclusive of a country, and YoI was actually aired and is being aired on TV. The creators themselves have talked, jokingly, about how YoI barely passed the censorship laws. I'm not sure why people connected "barely based the censoreship law" quote with the kiss. We had gay kisses in non BL anime before, even in serious situations like Mirai Nikki, N.6 and SSY. (And plenty of gurl/gurl kisses cause lesbians are hot for the average otaku) It's not Saudi Arabia lol The censorship quote probably refereed to the exaggerated fanservice. The "censored" kiss is most likely a stylistic choice, like the one in Pokemon. Or they need to save something for the last episode. |
Jin_uzukiNov 21, 2016 3:16 PM
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Jin_uzuki said: Eh, every time they act gay in public they do get weird/embarrassed looks (like the infamous sauna scene in episode 4) It really feels like Yuuri and Victor are dancing to a different tune than everyone else in the world, I assume it's just the writers wanting to avoid unnecessary real world drama that could pull people out relationship/fantasy. That scene would have played the same if they were a man and a woman, or two women. It was intimate and sexual to anyone who was looking, so of course nobody wants to be voyeurs (like Viktor's stripping in a restaurant, that wasn't polite behavior, you know?). While Yuuri's declarations and actions often catch people by surprise (as Viktor's), the reaction has been positive. The Instagram picture just makes people tease Yuuri, there's no media or skaters bullying him for being like that with Viktor (what they dislike is that he took Viktor from the ice rink). The kiss was latter received with a loud cheer and applause by the audience after they were surprised. I think the issue is less "two guys are together" and more "what does Viktor see in this guy?" Just my personal interpretation. It seems implicit since episode 1 everybody wanted to get Viktor's attention in a way (as the world most sought bachelor) if it makes sense. Men and women fainted when Viktor winked in their direction, so the anime has been openly portraying everyone crushes on him regardless of gender. It doesn't seem like a homophobic type of society in general. It also seems fairly progressive in the feminist side, as I mentioned: two examples of single old women without stereotyping them as 'christmas cakes' who wail because of their lack of husband. This is extremely rare in Japanese media. Also Georgi's ex-girlfriend isn't bashed by being open with her new relationship in media. In fact, it portrays Georgi as kind of a creepy loser for being hung up about a woman who doesn't want him. You know how rare that is. I really appreciate the show approach to the portrayals of women. Is it sexy? Yes, but it's because Yuuri, Viktor, etc are attractive people, but the eroticism inserted is always thematic with Yuuri's growth as skater and his confidence (his intimacy and self-consciousness were a problem). The skaters with some eroticism related themed have these moments: Chris, Yuuri and Viktor. There's nothing gratuitous about it, but it is integral to the skating. |
ThessNov 21, 2016 3:31 PM
It's hilarious that you tell people to go away and care about LGBTQIAP2S folks in a faraway place (yes let me name a Muslim country but forget to mention the violent queerphobia that can happen here in the ol' USA and other so-called civilized nations) then label discussing a queer subplot in an anime as "pollution". That plus thinking anyone who identifies as female will get the vapors from looking at genres like bara is ridiculously stereotyped thinking. Your arguments that groups and genres are uncomplicated monoliths with one agenda or focus is seriously disingenuous and not reflective of reality. Amazingly, people and yes anime genres can be more complex than that. You can have a character-driven sports show that features a romantic subplot between the main characters (like Yuri on Ice). It's still not the same thing as a genre that concentrates primarily on romance, like a romantic comedy, or GL or BL. Strangely enough queer anime fans like me and the straight allies) I know can enjoy entertainment _and_ still care and actively try to do something about the plight of LGBTQIAP2S people near and far. It might be difficult for someone using code words associated with the "alt right" to understand this, but it's true. If you don't think having positive and healthy queer representation in the media is needed or worthy of being discussed, then you are clearly ignorant of how important it is for people in all types of communities to have some characters that resemble them in some ways and to be treated as normal people who can form happy and healthy relationships of all kinds (platonic, romantic, sexual). Cishet folk get to dominate nearly all of the world's media, so please do not shit on people taking joy in one of the very few examples of a show that seems to be heading in the direction of having the main couple, who happen to both be men, experience a slow-burn incidental romance. It is pollution because LGBT has nothing to do with BL-anime. >stereotyped thinking It is just the fact: bara is much less popular and its target audience is gay males - so bara is the real representation of gays written by men for men but almost nobody is interested in it (comparing to the popularity of Yaoi, I can barely remember "The Legend of Blue Wolves", but even this is not really bara). Yaoi/Shounen-Ai anime adaptions are not so common too (however manga is much more popular) but they have some TVs and Movies adaptions - and the main audience are straight females. Of course it does not mean that females cannot like bara or males cannot like yaoi - I know examples from both sides, but there are some tendencies you cannot throw just calling me stereotypical. >positive and clear representation Find it in your western movies or in books please. A richer and deeper plot is always better than "romantic" rape with uke and seme - but the good/average plot where main characters are not Pico and The Pedophile does not make it straight LGBT. Yaoi on Ice is a good anime with real cute boys that does not represent or support (or at least not on purpose) LGBT - it is Shounen-Ai/BL with sport. Like No6 - there are gays, there is another deeper storyline, but it is still Shounen-Ai. |
Haleth said: I laughed out loud because I saw someone say on another site that even if it was a kiss it must be a "socialist kiss" because Viktor is Russian and you know how those Commies are with their peculiar foreign ways. It was so over the top I thought they were being sarcastic until they had a pro-Trump homophobic meltdown after being called on it. Holy shit, if you still have the link please show me. |
| >User since 2008 Please god help me quit this website. Such great community that doesn't even know how demographics work, AND gives """detailed"""" reviews after first episodes. |
gummyfang said: I agree with you! Yuri On Ice more closely resembles yaoi rather than bara, and I don't doubt it's aimed at a female audience. But I still believe it's progressive to have a gay couple in a mainstream anime without the yaoi/shounen ai label. But I am coming from a western perspective, so I have to acknowledge that I don't know enough about Japanese culture to fully judge what YOI means in terms of representation in Japan. I shouldn't have said most fujoshis don't care about LGBT people, there are most certainly queer people and allies that identify as fujoshis. But a majority (at least from what I've observed in western fandoms) seem to be straight girls who fetishize gay men. The yaoi fandom may do some good for the LGBT community, but it does not represent actual LGBT people. I wouldn't say you're wrong about the progressive part! Japan still does not take LGBT people and their rights seriously, so to see a writer and director want to portray LGBT characters in such a respectful manner is definitely a sign of change in perspective somewhere. It may be representation to some LGBT people in Japan, but for those who look down on anime they may not view it as such, and the gay men who write gei comi may not view it as representation and so on due to how they perceive a gay man would act and so on. There's a lot that can play into it. And then it could be, even if it is technically representation, is it "desired" representation. We've all seen our fair share of stereotyped characters and many of us don't exactly welcome them as representation. YOI I'm hoping will break that. Seems to be anyway. The west, maybe. But I'm not quick to jump on the fetishization train either, because really all I see is women exploring their sexuality and people not liking that because of some deep rooted puritanism. (This is a personal view.) I think some straight women do that, and have seen it myself, but I highly doubt it's the majority. Thing is that is impossible to prove unless there is more concrete data than anecdotal evidence from either of us. Of course BL doesn't represent actual LGBT people, and I really don't think it should! It's an area of sexual exploration. Straight porn isn't representative of heterosexual people and sex (porn leads to very misconstrued views on sex in general), so the same should not be applied to cartoon drawings and actual LGBT people! If I want representation of people like me I will definitely be looking elsewhere, but hey, sometimes you just enjoy a good trashy fic or something. |
“Victor can’t be satisfied by anyone but me.” |
Legolas_G said: Everyone who is swearing Yuri is straight, that Victuri won't happen, who's gonna delete their account if they see that they're canon. Watch episode 7 lol. I can confirm you 100% everyone on this thread has already watched it |
| For those that are still unsure whether or not it's canon click here. It's a link of an account on twitter that translates all Mitsurou Kubo's tweets. In one of her tweets she wrote that she wanted to showcase a healthy stable relationship and for that she didn't need to use a female character. She wanted to write a story about ''love that transcends gender'' There's also this website that belongs to the same person that translates Kubo's tweets. It's a website created by YOI fans that includes a collection of links to official sites, meta commentary and fun extras on Sayo Yamamoto’s dream project and translated tweets. There's also an explanation about the gifts on the ice and about that tissue box that looks like a dog and so much more |
Hikigaya Hachiman said: If the past makes you wanna die out of regret and future makes you depressed out of anxiety then by elimination, the present is likely the happiest time. |
| Welp, according to the spoilers, another anime added to my drop list... It had such potential just leaving it at figure skating, but to make it shounen-ai... a difinite turn-off on my part ;-; |
KilikcliaNov 24, 2016 4:01 PM
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| Personally romance as subgenre would make sense since Yuri's and Viktor's relationship is quite big part of the show. Free! for example has sports as tag, but also slice of life, comedy and school tags and together those are pretty accurate what the show is about. To me Yuri on Ice is not purely sports so romance tag would fit even if that is not main point. I can see shonen-ai tag fit as well, but problem with it is for me separating same sex romance from romance. Shonen-ai has bit of stigma as well. That tag does tell that anime has same sex relationship so it's not inaccurate really, but I think it takes away from seriousness of the romance. YOI isn't just another BL or shonen-ai anime after all. |
| i enjoy watching the "Probably turn out gay" grow each time i visit this thread....i remember it was 50% 50% and now look where we are. i'm kind of really bummed out that the added a "shounen ai" tag on kissanime instead of a romance tag, they let me down....so much for normalizing gay relationships so far i really like how their relationship is progressing but my only complaint is they really haven't shown us much of Viktor's past or actually shown anything personal about him. i swear we know more about that one weird Russian scary clown and his ex gf than Viktor |
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I laughed so hard at this. |
 KissAnime categorised YOI as Shounen Ai... BL it is then :O |
-->> they removed the tag. xD lol |
Stop acting so small. You are the universe in ecstatic motion. |
| tbh there is still a distinct pastability that this is all queerbait. i feel like a lot of what people are saying is Proof of Their Love is fanservice for straight women and fujoshi, mainly because something very momentous happened in their perceived relationship and the next episode didn't shed light or even acknowledge what happened. i am a gay person and i would very much like for more LGBT relationships existing outside of their expected genres (i.e. shounen-ai), but at the same time i'm wary to get my hopes up because i've been burned before :( |
im apollo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ they/them pls  |
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