Ok, so... I'm really liking art, music, characters and plot... until it is implicit that Naho from the future wants her and Suwa's son never to be born... If you ask me, that's pretty heartless and cold selfishness. Is there any reasonable explanation for this in the future? |
| I'll fade away and classify myself as obsolete! Obsolete!! |
| They just want to save Kakeru and that doesn't have to imply that she doesn't want to marry Suwa, maybe she knows that at some point she'll fall for Suwa after all; moreover, the future Naho wrote 'I want you to notice what Suwa's doing for you' or something like that. In can also be the case that by changing the past, rather than altering the future, they're creating an alternative timeline (and I think one of the characters mentioned something like this). But honestly, I haven't read the manga, so these are just my theories. |
| Maybe I'm a little too early on the series, because I haven't seen that message yet. I've just seen 2 episodes :p, but that matter made me feel a bit uncomfortable. I hope you are right and that message is a sign of something to come that'll let them save Kakeru while mantaining the future as it is. |
| I'll fade away and classify myself as obsolete! Obsolete!! |
| Something in this series piss me off... They story is nice and characters are really likeable... but how story is told piss me off... I understand they try to be "realistic" and give "realistic" moments, but this piss me off that there is so much focus on romance between Kakeru and Naho and (Suwa is just small addition) Since we know Naho will marry Suwa I wish they got more screentime/romantic moments/bonding between them. Right now... it feels like Naho loved Kakeru, but she married Suwa, because Kakeru died. Really, it feels like in story there is 95% KakeruxNaho and last 5% is for SuwaxNaho... Whole plot about latters from future, change past, saving Kakeru is nice. I really enjoy that Seishun vibe~ But romance in this series is just... meh. Supporting characters love life is more nice to watch. Also... Naho she is high school girl but you act and think like girl from elementary school when it comes to love. |
| Oooo... right... Big change, but doesn't change my mind that romance in this one is... meh. |
| First of all,the actions on this timeline won't have any consequences on their timeline as it's already created a parallel timeline because of their interference with the time,I mean trying to change the future by sending the letters. Second of all,for them it's just a vague hope that they can interact with the past,they did send the letter but a question always remains in their heart that if it'll work or not. *********** Now talking about the relationship,in this timeline,Naoh had much less interaction with Kakeru and even both of them end up having a conflict just before he died but in the parallel timeline,she was aware of the situation so she handled it according to that and had a better understanding of kakeru's feelings and the emotion he was going through. Suwa was always in love with Naoh in both the timeline but he notices that although she ends up marrying him but there was always an unhappy feeling inside her,which was hurting him seeing her like that so he asked his past selves that not be a bother to Naoh this time so she can save Kakeru and at least be happy in that timeline without any regret. |
| To be honest, Kakeru and Suwa are not the real conflitive point here... Is the fact that she had a son, who happened to be made with Suwa in that 1st time-line. Then, (i don't really know how, but...) Naho is sending messages to her past self no to only try to save Kakeru, which I think is totally comprehensible, but she also (apparently) wants to be with him... meaning that in the 2nd time-line she would not have a that son, HER SON. So well, I'm a father and know by first hand that there is nothing more important in life or that you will need more to exist than your son. I mean, if there's the possibility for an alternate reality where I can marry Scarlett Johansson (and man I love that woman xp) but that would mean my son would not exist in that reality, then fuck it, I would not even consider it. And by the way, there is something called "Mathernal Instinct"... apparently Naho doesn't have that... :/ That's what (at least to me) the real weird and bothersome problem is. But well, the series is not even over yet... So be aware, Naho! I will hate your guts forever if you don't have a really good explanation for this!!... Like... probably Kakeru turning to be gay or even an inverted harem stuff or... something... |
Apollo_MadaoSep 12, 2016 2:07 AM
| I'll fade away and classify myself as obsolete! Obsolete!! |
Nyst said: Sooo, . for you the fact that she want to live this romance with kakeru means that she want to marry him ? There are a lot of romance I would have liked to live, or to make longer, even though I know that at the end I wouldn't have stayed with those guys for my whole life. It's "regret". I hope it would have gone an other way. It doesn't mean that I want those guys to be my last love. . for you, a high school love, will be your last love ? The other "couple" of this story is not married in the future. Does it mean that they don't love each other ? meh... Also, there is an ep. where the future naho tells to the past one to notice every time suwa is nice to her, help her, and be sure to thank him for that. She loves suwa. But she had a hard time when Kakeru passed away and regret that she couldn't make him happy. She knows that he loved her and think that the best way to make him happy would be this relationship. And for the child argument, if your son didn't existed you couldn't have this thought. I have a daughter and well... if I was with an other man I may not have one, or have a boy, or have a different daughter, and I don't see any problem with that. I would love her (him) anyway. I can see different timelines that could have happen in my past, and I still would have loved to live them. And if I had a choice between them, I can't say which one I would pick. Because in the other timelines, my daughter would not exist. That's it. - Well, that concept of "romance" is pretty twisted, don't you think? at least if you know what romance really means. Better call it relations. Also, you are idealizing, because you're hoping those hypothetical relations would be good, but then, who really knows?. And to know those relations would not go anywhere... well... meh... - I've never talked about marrying, neither I'm married nor have a relationship with my son's mother since 10+ years. As I said, I don't really care about their relations, I'm concerned about the things to come... there's a person that would not exist in that other time-line. That's what bothers me because Naho herself is telling her past to change things that "seems like" could change the future, risking someone existance. If that's what going to happen, I don't know I'm not the writer of the story, and I'm not saying the show is shit, I'm just debating about a topic I see as weird. Ok, yeah, I think as well there might be other timelines in some sort of reality. BUT, if it is me who cooked that alternate reality I would not change things like deprive someone I love from living. Ask any parent if they would like to live a life where their children didn't exist, while their knowing they existed in that other reality. That's what bothers me (at the moment) about the story, because "it doesn't seem real"... if that can be said about a fiction work. Summarizing. Save Kakeru, because if you can why not?. Consciously risking another timeline self to not have what she had by encouraging the selfish need to be with that person as a couple looks retarded, UNLESS her future self is not aware of the letters her past self is receiving from her because of plot gods, if something alike happens my bothers would be nullified. |
| I'll fade away and classify myself as obsolete! Obsolete!! |
| https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1544996 This anime blows |
Sorry dude, didn't noticed you did a similar post. c: |
| I'll fade away and classify myself as obsolete! Obsolete!! |
But this wasn't even twisted on purpose which is why it's so bad. This is a classic case of the viewers being smarter than the author and the authors like "oh yeah I totally did that on purpose, my plan all along.." |
| This is shoujo, right? I think think it would be better if Naho and Kakeru still got nice strong bond, be very close with each other, Naho still tried to save him, but if there were just friends, close friends, but she got also close romantic bond with Suwa. Because why Kakaru and Naho need to love each other to save Kakeru? Why she just can't be there for him just as friend. Wouldn't this could be romantic if Naho could say "I will falling in you in every world", yeah... she kinda say something like she would still marry Suwa, even if Kakeru was alive, but it hard to belive when whole series she was so much into Kakaru I usually don't like romance like "In other time/world we were lovers, so we have to be lovers in this time/world, too" But here is just really... so painfull! What can happen in new world to Naho and Kakeru break up and she will start dating Suwa and married him... and cheat him with Kakeru, because...she could go with "I still love Kakeru and I reget marrying Suwa" Really, author could make better romance since this is shoujo. |
LittleStar said: I think think it would be better if Naho and Kakeru still got nice strong bond, be very close with each other, Naho still tried to save him, but if there were just friends, close friends, but she got also close romantic bond with Suwa. Because why Kakaru and Naho need to love each other to save Kakeru? Why she just can't be there for him just as friend. This. Even though future Naho told Suwa on the car that he would choose him everytime she was just talking from pespective of Naho who was confessed after she was blamed by Kakeru - but Suwa intentionally changed this part for her to never know (which is kinda cruel as he was denying his own happiness for sake of someone else). I also find it hard to believe her letter didn't mentioned details like wedding when Suwa and everyone else letters mentioned Naho x Suwa was a thing in the future. If Naho's letter purposefully tried tried to omit some crucial details as not to change the future much, it kinda kills the point when everyone else went full details in their letters. Whole timetravelling thing shouldn't be explicitly explained in the first place as it felt really cheesy and not believable when they were talking about in the end. Heck, their whole relationship with Kakeru began ONLY because they were sent the letters and it's perfectly fine to think that they wouldn't be his friends if this hasn't happened in the first place (meaning Kakeru's mom would not die and Suwa's long time feelings for Naho wouldn't be crushed by some transfer student they didn't even know). Everything should have been better left in mystery as this is shoujo not Steins;Gate or whatever. But the worst thing on Kakeru dating Naho is the fact that they made him not suicide by having Naho become his girlfriend. There was no reason to do that as simple friendship would be enough and even a lot better conclusion for this series. No matter how weird I found the fact that she was basically forced to love him (and it even shows in the series as she had always hard time even talking with him) it also means that IF anytime in the future she breaks up with Kakeru he would get estranged from whole group again and his suicidal tendencies would return. There would be a great ammount of pressure put on Naho throughout all of her following life and she would fear all the time to not even scold him as not to trigger him to go suicide again (he would have to be basically pampered for the rest of his life and that's certainly not love, that's pity - talk about equal relationship). And that's also the burden she won't able to bear. Suicadal tendencies aren't really cured so easily and first big conflict between them could easily activate them again. That's why I don't think this series made those people justice. |
| In the end this had the feeling of a good idea (concerning on the matter of help for someone who is deseperately in need) that seemed to have been writen by an unexperienced 13 year old girl who cares more about love than a In some way it had a very bad message for people with hard times or more accurate to people with depression, 'cause the help Kakeru received was artificial. He never tried to get help, except for the time he talked to his old friends... and that was erased by the orders on the letters... way to give a crap on someone trying to do things well. People with hard depression doesn't need to wear diapers and be told about everything they have to do (believe me, sadly I know one too many things about it). Instead, encourage them to do well by themselves. Pushing him to join the football team was a good example, 'cause they knew he wanted to do it but felt guilt on it. Not allowing him to do things that had no evidence to be harmful to himself is not a good thing at all. The letters felt like commands more than guides. And sorry but, no group of friends will remember so many details happened 10 years ago. Also, they feeling so guilty 10 years after the events to make them write letters hopping for a change on another reality looks selfish and childish as fuck when compared to the fact of Kakeru killing himself BECAUSE OF GUILT on something RECENT and close as a MOTHER WHO COMMITED SUICIDE!... ¬¬ Also, future Naho is a childish and idiotic b.tch... But, present Naho has nothing to be blamed for, 'cause she had genuine fellings for Kakeru and... she didn't knew her other self had a son who she will (most likely) never know... A horrible mess in terms of principles. Mich666 said: Suicadal tendencies aren't really cured so easily and first big conflict between them could easily activate them again. What makes you think Kakeru had Suicidal Tendencies? That's a really serious mental illness. Anybody has a possibility to get his mind broken and go insane for a while, and Kakeru had a hell of a horrible experience by reading that unsend message from his mother after enduring his pain mostly by himself, staying quiet on something that everybody would be devastated by. |
| I'll fade away and classify myself as obsolete! Obsolete!! |
Apollo_Madao said: What makes you think Kakeru had Suicidal Tendencies? That's a really serious mental illness. Anybody has a possibility to get his mind broken and go insane for a while, and Kakeru had a hell of a horrible experience by reading that unsend message from his mother after enduring his pain mostly by himself, staying quiet on something that everybody would be devastated by. If every people suicide when one of their loved ones died we would be extinct. Nope, normal people feels despair are down but they mostly appreciates their lives. Kakeru does not. Basically whole this series was about it. His mother was mentally ill and the fact he even thought about suicide and tried find an easy way out means he isn't quite right too, he may have the same illness as she and the trigger was her death. Not to mention he suffers from serious case of low self-esteem, belittling himself in his own eyes all the time. What I'm trying to say here is that if he results to suicide and sees it as solution of his problems once, he may as well think about it again in the future when he loses someone else in a same way and painful breakup with a girl could as well as be the trigger too. |
Mich666 said: Apollo_Madao said: What makes you think Kakeru had Suicidal Tendencies? That's a really serious mental illness. Anybody has a possibility to get his mind broken and go insane for a while, and Kakeru had a hell of a horrible experience by reading that unsend message from his mother after enduring his pain mostly by himself, staying quiet on something that everybody would be devastated by. If every people suicide when one of their loved ones died we would be extinct. Nope, normal people feels despair are down but they mostly appreciates their lives. Kakeru does not. Basically whole this series was about it. His mother was mentally ill and the fact he even thought about suicide and tried find an easy way out means he isn't quite right too, he may have the same illness as she and the trigger was her death. Not to mention he suffers from serious case of low self-esteem, belittling himself in his own eyes all the time. What I'm trying to say here is that if he results to suicide and sees it as solution of his problems once, he may as well think about it again in the future when he loses someone else in a same way and painful breakup with a girl could as well as be the trigger too. Nah, that's not how a mental illness works. There needs to be more substantial facts to that, like hurting himself both physical and mentally on an almost regular basis, and feeling like crap even for dumb reasons. The difference is like from having a cold to HIV if you want. We didn't saw any of that, only a tortured soul who felt guilty for his mother's suicide, and given how things happened it would be rare if anybody wouldn't felt on a similar way. Yeah, he was quiet, but he wasn't trying to suffer. Anyway, he should have been sent to a psychiatrist, not because he was a mentally ill person, but because he was hurt, anybody needs to go to a doctor if they broke an arm. And there's no way that losing a girlfriend would be as damaging as what he lived. I'm sorry if I take this a bit personal, absolutly nothing against you, but that matter is much relevant for me since I had to be 2+ months on a psychiatric hospital and knew a lot of great people who I don't know if they are still alive or not because some of them were actually suicidal. |
| I'll fade away and classify myself as obsolete! Obsolete!! |
Apollo_Madao said: Maybe I'm a little too early on the series, because I haven't seen that message yet. I've just seen 2 episodes :p, but that matter made me feel a bit uncomfortable. I hope you are right and that message is a sign of something to come that'll let them save Kakeru while mantaining the future as it is. Late to answer but I gotta say I felt the same way as you did. But luckily we got an explanation for everything. Apollo_Madao said: Mich666 said: If every people suicide when one of their loved ones died we would be extinct. Nope, normal people feels despair are down but they mostly appreciates their lives. Kakeru does not. Basically whole this series was about it. His mother was mentally ill and the fact he even thought about suicide and tried find an easy way out means he isn't quite right too, he may have the same illness as she and the trigger was her death. Not to mention he suffers from serious case of low self-esteem, belittling himself in his own eyes all the time. What I'm trying to say here is that if he results to suicide and sees it as solution of his problems once, he may as well think about it again in the future when he loses someone else in a same way and painful breakup with a girl could as well as be the trigger too. Nah, that's not how a mental illness works. There needs to be more substantial facts to that, like hurting himself both physical and mentally on an almost regular basis, and feeling like crap even for dumb reasons. The difference is like from having a cold to HIV if you want. We didn't saw any of that, only a tortured soul who felt guilty for his mother's suicide, and given how things happened it would be rare if anybody wouldn't felt on a similar way. Yeah, he was quiet, but he wasn't trying to suffer. Anyway, he should have been sent to a psychiatrist, not because he was a mentally ill person, but because he was hurt, anybody needs to go to a doctor if they broke an arm. And there's no way that losing a girlfriend would be as damaging as what he lived. Not everyone hurts themselves while they're depressed or suicidal. Some people bury everything inside of them and carry those feelings everywhere till they can't go on anymore. Kakeru seemed to be like that. He pretended to be alright most of the time and kept all the pain and despair to himself. He kept hurting himself mentally by telling himself that his mother died because of him. And that he doesn't deserve to be happy. So later the guilt and pain were too great and he wanted to commit suicide. I'm just saying there's different kind of people who deal different ways. Some people hurt themselves physically to ease the mental pain, and some don't. And I don't agree that being left by a girl would do harm. Most likely things reminding him of his mother will cause him pain, but since he understood he doesn't want to die, he won't get that depressed over his loss. I'd say he had great progress at the end since he got back his will to live. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I literally finished binging this. And this idea didn't just bother me, it pissed me off. The anime implies it but not concretely. If Kakeru doesn't die then Naho will still have the love of her life and is going to marry him. I mean if she didn't fall in love with Suwa their whole childhood, there isn't a chance for them to fall in love now that Suwa isn't even going to confess. And that got me angry too. How the hell could Suwa just give up his wife and child like that!?!?! Same for Naho. In the future she said even if Kakeru was alive she would still marry Kakeru. But I feel like that was just a lie Naho said to make Suwa feel better. There is no way in which this can work out for Suwa. I'm praying that we get some closure int he movie, or Suwa dies from an accident and Suwa ends up confessing. |
Alpha101Dec 28, 2016 1:13 AM
| the show treated Suwa like shit even when he was the most interesting |
More topics from this board
» A dark Orange theory (SPOILERS)DigiCat - Sep 10 |
10 |
by DigiCat
»»
Oct 1, 3:26 PM |
|
Poll: » Orange Episode 2 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 )Stark700 - Jul 10, 2016 |
234 |
by SpacemanMadden
»»
Jul 29, 9:41 PM |
|
Poll: » Orange Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 )Stark700 - Jul 24, 2016 |
218 |
by ronzu
»»
Jul 14, 3:48 AM |
|
Poll: » Orange Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )Stark700 - Aug 21, 2016 |
180 |
by dan-delion
»»
Jul 4, 11:56 AM |
|
Poll: » Orange Episode 13 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Sep 25, 2016 |
392 |
by wink420
»»
Jul 1, 8:28 PM |