| Is it just me, or do some of the shots in this anime look like they use traditional animation? Did the artists working on this show just come up with some really realistic looking digital brushes, or is it partially being made with traditional animation for those big high-powered action-packed moments? The ending animation especially looks like it was painted on glass or something. Anyway, if this is true, mad respect to BONES! I'd love to see a comeback for traditional animation, even if it's just in a small way, for specific special-effects moments like this. |
vigorousjammerAug 3, 2016 4:56 PM
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| Wow, I have to say this is top notch work on this side. And people complain that Bones have no soul.... |
hulkedoutdude said: watch This video if you are interested in knowing more about Mob psycho 100 animation style, its really well explained. OMG, that video was great <3 Definitely going to start following these animator's works. :D I've now instantly become a big fan of Kameda. |
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vigorousjammer said: ONE'S loose art is very favourable for the animation, the animators just run with it. Is it just me, or do some of the shots in this anime look like they use traditional animation? Did the artists working on this show just come up with some really realistic looking digital brushes, or is it partially being made with traditional animation for those big high-powered action-packed moments? The ending animation especially looks like it was painted on glass or something. Anyway, if this is true, mad respect to BONES! I'd love to see a comeback for traditional animation, even if it's just in a small way, for specific special-effects moments like this. BRB-kun said: obviously they don't :P bones president wanted to one up one punch man so they stole madhouse's best talent ;DWow, I have to say this is top notch work on this side. And people complain that Bones have no soul.... |
| Imagine a berserk anime by Yoshiaki kawajiri at Madhouse. Now take a look at Berserk (2016). YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION TO CRY. |
Meh_Meh_2 said: I was joking? I even included this ";D" to be obvious, lol. I am repeating the meme some folks repeated when opm was airing, how bones did everything in opm lel obviously they don't :P bones president wanted to one up one punch man so they stole madhouse's best talent ;D When are people are going to realize that the majority of people in the anime industry are "Freelancers": meaning they work at multiple different studios. STUDIOS DON'T MATTER as much as people think the do the staff is what matters. Kameda is an animator that started of at studio AIC then went freelance an has worked everywhere: FMA:B(bones), Bleach(perriot), Iorn man(madhouse),Persona 4(AIC). Same goes for the death parade director. He eveventually went FREELANCE and worked at other studios too like trigger,Mappa, and perriot. That's like saying studio Manglobe stole director shiro watanabe from studio sunrise. And that's like saying madhouse stole mamoru hosoda and masaaki yuasa from Toei animation.( for people who think studios like Toei can't get talented animators and directors to work on their shows.)Meh_Meh_2 said: :P bones president wanted to one up one punch man so they stole madhouse's best talent ;D I guess going by this logic Madhouse stole one of Bones most talented animators " Yutaka Nakamaru" . He animated a scene in OPM ep 12 that he was uncredited for probably because he is not really a freelance animator like most animators. He started off at Sunrise. Bones is a studio that branched of from Sunrise. People really need to stop these stupid studio wars and learn people's names instead. That's also like saying studio Wit stole the attack on Titan director from madhouse. Anyway if you want to know who Yutaka Nakamaru is watch this video or watch the Sakuga panel on YouTube about him: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tuHymXxUxW0[/quote] touché. Spread the word. |
| Imagine a berserk anime by Yoshiaki kawajiri at Madhouse. Now take a look at Berserk (2016). YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION TO CRY. |
vigorousjammer said: Is it just me, or do some of the shots in this anime look like they use traditional animation? Did the artists working on this show just come up with some really realistic looking digital brushes, or is it partially being made with traditional animation for those big high-powered action-packed moments? The ending animation especially looks like it was painted on glass or something. Anyway, if this is true, mad respect to BONES! I'd love to see a comeback for traditional animation, even if it's just in a small way, for specific special-effects moments like this. Well, I don't know what do you mean by traditional animation. As far as I know, the genga/key animation in this anime mostly drawn on paper (conventional way) and on computer (digitally). Example of genga / key animation (some of them drawn digitally) For example, in episode 3, the fight between Mob and Dimple, was drawn by Kazuto Arai and Miso using FLASH. https://sakuga.yshi.org/post?tags=kazuto_arai+mob_psycho_100 If you're referring to the brush effect, I think it could be added digitally. The character designer, Yoshimichi Kameda, is famous for his brushwork style and his Kanada-school animation approach. For the ending sequence, yes, it was drawn my Miyo Sato with a technique called Paint-on-glass. Miyo Sato graduated from Geidai (Tokyo University of the Arts) in 2015 and is now working under a web production company called Yellow Workers. She is confirmed to work regularly in this show. Well, I would love to talk more, but I'm also a newbie in this fandom, so you could ask directly to @liborek3 on twitter about BONES or staff working on mob psycho. Or you could read his review on sakugablog : https://sakugablog.yshi.org/tag/mob-psycho-100/ Or just lurk at sakugabooru: https://sakuga.yshi.org/post https://sakuga.yshi.org/post?tags=mob_psycho_100 |
kyuudere said: Well, I don't know what do you mean by traditional animation. As far as I know, the genga/key animation in this anime mostly drawn on paper (conventional way) and on computer (digitally). By "traditional animation" I meant drawn or painted on a physical medium like paper or cellophane and then having them photographed, without modifying the actual drawings or touching up the linework on the computer, perhaps only using the computer for color balancing. Technically, back in the 90s and beforehand, when CEL animation was dominant, they would photograph each frame onto a film reel and not use the computer at all, but nowadays, as long as they didn't draw the lines using a computer, I'd still consider that traditional animation. Part of Mob Psycho 100 is definitely done using digital animation, but other parts look like they went traditional, such as that moment in episode 1 where... Gosh, Bones is always so good, honestly. I don't think I've seen a show from them that was poorly animated, all of their releases look and move so good. :) Anyway, if the majority of the keys are being done on paper, that might be part of why it looks so good. But, also, I'm really impressed with the linework in the show thus far, especially during those moments like I mentioned above. Never before have I seen this kind of linework done digitally... or at least not as successfully as it's been done here. The lines scream personality and aren't the annoyingly smooth lines we've come to expect from digital animation, but the more personal lines that I've always loved seeing in CEL animation, and other types of traditional mediums. If these moments were truly done digitally, does this mark a new era for digital animation? I guess it's too early to say, but I do hope a lot more shows try to follow up on this style of digital animation, instead of simply clinging to the perfectly-smooth linework that works well for some shows, but brings down the style of many others. |
vigorousjammerAug 4, 2016 6:58 AM
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vigorousjammer said: By "traditional animation" I meant drawn or painted on a physical medium like paper or cellophane and then having them photographed, without modifying the actual drawings or touching up the linework on the computer, perhaps only using the computer for color balancing. Technically, back in the 90s and beforehand, when CEL animation was dominant, they would photograph each frame onto a film reel and not use the computer at all, but nowadays, as long as they didn't draw the lines using a computer, I'd still consider that traditional animation. Part of Mob Psycho 100 is definitely done using digital animation, but other parts look like they went traditional, such as that moment in episode 1 where... Gosh, Bones is always so good, honestly. I don't think I've seen a show from them that was poorly animated, all of their releases look and move so good. :) Anyway, if the majority of the keys are being done on paper, that might be part of why it looks so good. But, also, I'm really impressed with the linework in the show thus far, especially during those moments like I mentioned above. Never before have I seen this kind of linework done digitally... or at least not as successfully as it's been done here. The lines scream personality and aren't the annoyingly smooth lines we've come to expect from digital animation, but the more personal lines that I've always loved seeing in CEL animation, and other types of traditional mediums. If these moments were truly done digitally, does this mark a new era for digital animation? I guess it's too early to say, but I do hope a lot more shows try to follow up on this style of digital animation, instead of simply clinging to the perfectly-smooth linework that works well for some shows, but brings down the style of many others. Actually no one use cell anymore in this day and age. And yes, that part when Reigen went all dramatic is really good! https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/24393/ I think that one done in paper. Someone draw that (or even maybe Kameda himself) and then Kameda corrected the drawing by adding some brush-stroke effect. maybe something like that (Feel free to correct me anyone!). Also, I guess Kameda is still using traditional technique, take a look at his genga on One Punch Man : https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/17755 This one certainly drawn on paper. Actually most of BONES show still using the conventional / traditional technique (drawn on paper), only some animators using digital animation like bahi jd. The standard nowadays is drawn on paper, but digital animation is also became popular, as you could see there are many animators using digital like Shingo Yamashita, Shingo Fujii, Arifumi Imai, and other young animators that their name I couldn't list one by one. And I don't really agree that digital animation age is too early. Some studio even has embraced the digital animation just like Signal MD (new subsidiary of I.G Port), or in some Tatsunoko Production's works like Yozakura Quartet Hana no Uta and Hoshi no Umi. I'm not going to start a pointless discussion such as "traditional animation vs digital animation". I love the meticulously detailed animation of Hiroyuki Okiura or Inoue Toshiyuki's realism, but I also love that kind of exciting, flashy (not quite right term tho!) charm of digital animation. Someone might like digital animation over traditional one, but I think that's just a matter of preference and objectively both of them are good if used effectively. Recently yuyucow wrote an article about Shingo Yamashita's work on new Sousei no Onmyouji Opening, which is mostly done in digital. I hope you have time to read that. https://sakugablog.yshi.org/2016/07/19/sakuga-highlights-week-3/ Also, one of notable animator from BONES, Yutaka Nakamura also start using digital animation in Concrete Revolutio https://sakuga.yshi.org/post?tags=yutaka_nakamura+concrete_revolutio_choujin_gensou |
kyuudere said: And I don't really agree that digital animation age is too early. Some studio even has embraced the digital animation just like Signal MD (new subsidiary of I.G Port), or in some Tatsunoko Production's works like Yozakura Quartet Hana no Uta and Hoshi no Umi. I mean, I never said it was too early. Even just looking at something like Blood: The Last Vampire, it's clear digital can be used in a way that keeps the style of CEL animation to some extent, even in a production as early as that. When I said "too early", what I meant was "it's too early to know if this is a new era for digital animation" By "new era" I mean that... I just feel with digital animation, in the past it seems like you would've always had to sacrifice something in order to get a different benefit. The part about Mob Psycho 100 that impresses me is that it seems as though it sacrifices nothing. The show simultaneously does such an excellent job at retaining the artist's linework just as exactly as it would've been retained with CEL animation, while still gaining the clear benefits of digital animation (better colors, less washed-out picture). kyuudere said: I love the meticulously detailed animation of Hiroyuki Okiura or Inoue Toshiyuki's realism, but I also love that kind of exciting, flashy (not quite right term tho!) charm of digital animation. Someone might like digital animation over traditional one, but I think that's just a matter of preference and objectively both of them are good if used effectively. I think typical digital animation techniques can certainly work for some productions, but I also feel like they've been very over-used, especially auto-smoothing for linework. The problem in the past would've been that if you turned off that auto-smoothing, it would've just looked bad, not expressive, and the only way to get that rough, expressive look was to use custom brushes which never looked as natural as actual ink. However, the rough, expressive lines in Mob Psycho 100 look completely natural, so it seems like digitally drawn lines can now be just as rough & expressive as their ink-drawn counterparts... if, of course, the artist chooses to draw them in that manner. I'm not sure if this is due to faster CPUs in computers being better able to capture subtle motions from the artist's pen or new developments from the software side of things or what, but this is really exciting for me. For so long with digital animation, the artist was a slave to the tools they had at hand, and had less choice. I suppose the same could be said of CEL animation, and the limitations inherent to that format. However, if drawing programs have become advanced to the point where a show that looks as good as Mob Psycho 100 can be made on a TV budget, it seems like animators may now have more choice in how they want to create their animations than ever before! Really exciting times! |
vigorousjammerAug 4, 2016 4:49 PM
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I think typical digital animation techniques can certainly work for some productions, but I also feel like they've been very over-used, especially auto-smoothing for linework. Though there are some auto-smoothing / auto in-betweening program like Cacani, I doubt the anime industry has implemented it. No one want to take a risk and use it in real TV anime production, so the standard is still in-betweened by human. Sometimes they even outsourced to Korea for in-between / tweening. So far I know, auto-inbetweening program only used in personal work / for testing This one is drawn by ryochimo (Birdy the mighty), and Tetsuro Kawano (action animation director in Kotetsujo no Kabaneri). The in-between generated using Cacani. However, the rough, expressive lines in Mob Psycho 100 look completely natural, so it seems like digitally drawn lines can now be just as rough & expressive as their ink-drawn counterparts... if, of course, the artist chooses to draw them in that manner This is why I love Mob Psycho so much, the staff gathered in this project have given freedom to bring their personal style into their work so we could notice that's something 'different' in Mob Psycho. As I said before, Yoshimichi Kameda is one of them, he's the one who bring that amazing brushwork style into first episode, and in the third episode, it was handled by different person, Gosei Oda, who also love to use a thick and rough outlines in his animation. And in fourth episode, Moroyuki Sara single-handedly draw the whole episode, and we could see how she really fond of sketchy art style. Also, there are still many talented individuals that working in this anime like Ayumi Yamada, Hata Ayako, and Miyo Sato. Anyway, good analysis on you part, vigorousjammer. I'm glad that people noticed the goodness of Mob Psycho's animation :) |
| I dont like the animation that much, if i wanted to read the manga i would read the manga and not watch the anime. It wont affect my rating that much tho cause i like the story enough. I prefer OPM's, Boku no Hero and Boungou Stray Dogs animation much more. |
SpaghettiSpikeAug 5, 2016 5:55 AM
 Oshii is probably the only director that loves dogs. He thinks he's a dog himself. That's right, its slime! It will dissolve your clothing slowly before my eyes! |
kyuudere said: Though there are some auto-smoothing / auto in-betweening program like Cacani, I doubt the anime industry has implemented it. No one want to take a risk and use it in real TV anime production, so the standard is still in-betweened by human. Sometimes they even outsourced to Korea for in-between / tweening. Ah, that's not what I meant, I meant smoothing for linework, such as what happens in Flash or Illustrator when you draw a vector-based line. It takes your stroke and auto-corrects it, taking some of the personality out of it, instead opting for a more accurate curve or whatnot. I've also seen these smoothing algorithms used for raster-based programs like Photoshop, as well. You can turn this feature off in most digital art programs, but at least in my experience having it off only ever made my lines look sloppier, not more intense or expressive or anything. It seems like most artists have the same experience, as most tend to use some kind of smoothing algorithm when working digitally, which is really a shame to me because it often tends to take a lot of the expression out of an artist's linework. However, this is not in the case in Mob Psycho 100, as the very expressive linework is part of why I'm so impressed with it. I'm curious to know if they're just using a different, more subtle smoothing algorithm or if they're using some kind of specialized brushes or whatnot. Hopefully we get a look into the making of the show in some bonus features on the Blu-Ray or YouTube or something down the line. ^_^ |
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