Red_Keys said: tsudecimo said: I've heard so many mixed things about this series.Oh Haruhi, that fucking cunt. It blows my mind that she has 10974 favorites... I want to watch it, because apparently the main character is one of the sarcastic types, kind of like Oreki from Hyouka. And I've heard the movie sequel or whatever is nothing short of amazing. But then I've heard that Haruhi is an insufferable cunt to ever character. And then that endless 8 shit. Whatever that is. I'm kind of skeptical about starting it. Kyon is cynical like Oreki. He is a better character imo his monologues are pretty good but he is still submissive to Harhui which ruins his character for me, he does everything she asks for no matter how selfish and stupid it is and he doesn't always help the people Haruhi bully. I say watch it, it might provide you with new material to rage over lol. |
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Red_Keys said: Well, to be fair, it only gets extremely irritating at one point near the end. However, that was the exact intent, as even Kyon called her out on it.But then I've heard that Haruhi is an insufferable cunt to ever character. And then that endless 8 shit. Whatever that is. It's bullshit. Watch the first two iterations then skip to the 8th iteration. You'll miss nothing. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
| The problem with Haruhi is how people have forgotten that she's supposed to be a spoiled bitch with a massive latent superpower, making other characters' lives difficult to endure as they have to please any of their desires in order to have the world safe another day. She's not even a reliable picture of a tsundere. Or at least, her tsundere side is the least blatant reason for her aggresive and bitchy behaviour. About Endless Eight... |
jal90 said: The problem with Haruhi is how people have forgotten that she's supposed to be a spoiled bitch with a massive latent superpower, making other people's lives difficult to endure as they have to please any of their desires in order to have the world safe another day. She's not even a reliable picture of a tsundere. Or at least, her tsundere side is the least blatant reason for her aggresive and bitchy behaviour. Endless Eight is quite good, though. Why do you think Endless Eight is good? |
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Ghost-Lightning said: I can't say Haruhi's character was to blame really (I don't remember her being a bitch; I actually recall her being considered something of a "weirdo" by the show's other characters), for me it was just that I felt bored watching it. How? she is a bitch to the boob girl and almost everyone. She bullies anyone to get what she wants. Her main problem is that she is bored with how ''normal'' the world is and all that happened because she realized she is not a ''special'' person when she was a kid. |
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| Not all tsunderes are physically abusive. Maybe you just don't like abusive or sadistic characters, not tsunderes in general. |
Paul said: Not all tsunderes are physically abusive. Maybe you just don't like abusive or sadistic characters, not tsunderes in general. I still find character's that aren't honest with themselves to be very annoying. |
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tsudecimo said: Red_Keys said: tsudecimo said: I've heard so many mixed things about this series.Oh Haruhi, that fucking cunt. It blows my mind that she has 10974 favorites... I want to watch it, because apparently the main character is one of the sarcastic types, kind of like Oreki from Hyouka. And I've heard the movie sequel or whatever is nothing short of amazing. But then I've heard that Haruhi is an insufferable cunt to ever character. And then that endless 8 shit. Whatever that is. I'm kind of skeptical about starting it. Kyon is cynical like Oreki. He is a better character imo his monologues are pretty good but he is still submissive to Harhui which ruins his character for me, he does everything she asks for no matter how selfish and stupid it is and he doesn't always help the people Haruhi bully. I say watch it, it might provide you with new material to rage over lol. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Why these guys have the nerve to accept being tools to tsundere like this? I mean, Kyon KNOWS that Haruhi's intentions are bullstink, yet he still goes to her and follows and do her bidding. Thats really stupid, even if it is JUST for the sake of keeping the world safe, that's no excuse to have anything to do with her. The worlds full of idiots as it is, so why does it matter wasting your own life to become a tool to the biggest brat in history and watch others suffer for it? Making her into a god-moder, is just beyond ridiculous. It's like accepting the fact that our god is the devil in the form of a girl and we have to obey and suffer for his/her sake. |
jal90 said: The problem with Haruhi is how people have forgotten that she's supposed to be a spoiled bitch with a massive latent superpower, making other characters' lives difficult to endure as they have to please any of their desires in order to have the world safe another day. She's not even a reliable picture of a tsundere. Or at least, her tsundere side is the least blatant reason for her aggresive and bitchy behaviour. So is Kirino and Louise. Their character and personality was on purpose and had a lot of relevance to the plot but that doesn't make them any less of a spoiled cunts. Haruhi is a tsundere but that was hardly the focus of her character or the anime. |
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tsudecimo said: Ghost-Lightning said: I can't say Haruhi's character was to blame really (I don't remember her being a bitch; I actually recall her being considered something of a "weirdo" by the show's other characters), for me it was just that I felt bored watching it. How? she is a bitch to the boob girl and almost everyone. She bullies anyone to get what she wants. Her main problem is that she is bored with how ''normal'' the world is and all that happened because she realized she is not a ''special'' person when she was a kid. I see. Again, I only watched the first three episodes, and it was some time ago so I may not be totally accurate in my recollection. So maybe Red_Keys may not like it. |
Nidstang said: Why do you think Endless Eight is good? Well, I spent quite a lot of time in this thread dealing with this issue. But basically, I see and respect the intention of the arc, the effort put on it that for me puts it aside from being an easy troll movement, and the fact it is true to what it wants to transmit. |
Nidstang said: Paul said: Not all tsunderes are physically abusive. Maybe you just don't like abusive or sadistic characters, not tsunderes in general. I still find character's that aren't honest with themselves to be very annoying. Exactly. They take forever to be honest with themselves. Not only that, show some backbone to be kind to others. |
tsudecimo said: So is Kirino and Louise. Their character and personality was on purpose and had a lot of relevance to the plot but that doesn't make them any less of a spoiled cunts. Nope, but that doesn't make the anime intentions with this character a failure. I wouldn't care about people who say that Haruhi is a spoiled cunt if they weren't actually trying to deny the show's merit with that statement. |
Paul said: Not all tsunderes are physically abusive. Maybe you just don't like abusive or sadistic characters, not tsunderes in general. Hmm, you know, I never thought of it like that. I guess thats why I always have a liking to the tolerable ones like Asuna (SAO), Saber (Fate/Stay Night), Kyo (Fruits Basket), and so on and not those types that you mentioned. And you're right, not all of them are like that, though it still sad we don't see much of those tolerable ones anymore. |
jal90 said: Simple version:tsudecimo said: Nope, but that doesn't make the anime intentions with this character a failure. I wouldn't care about people who say that Haruhi is a spoiled cunt if they weren't actually trying to deny the show's merit with that statement.So is Kirino and Louise. Their character and personality was on purpose and had a lot of relevance to the plot but that doesn't make them any less of a spoiled cunts. Anime's Intent: Make Kirino/Louise likeable. Process: Make Kirino/Louise a spoiled bitch. Result: Epic failure. Anime's Intent: Make Haruhi hated. Process: Make Haruhi a spoiled bitch. Result: Success. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
Nidstang said: Paul said: Not all tsunderes are physically abusive. Maybe you just don't like abusive or sadistic characters, not tsunderes in general. I still find character's that aren't honest with themselves to be very annoying. I hate how tsundere is such a generic character trope, there are rarely any original tsundere out there but anime is a business I guess. jal90 said: tsudecimo said: So is Kirino and Louise. Their character and personality was on purpose and had a lot of relevance to the plot but that doesn't make them any less of a spoiled cunts. Nope, but that doesn't make the anime intentions with this character a failure. I wouldn't care about people who say that Haruhi is a spoiled cunt if they weren't actually trying to deny the show's merit with that statement. Who said anything about the show being a failure ? Like I said I understand why they act this way be it Haruhi or Kirino and it's relevance to the plot. I am only commenting about how ''annoying'' their personalities are. But if I were to comment on the anime itself I would say it's mediocre at best. It gained all of it's popularity because of gimmicks not because the show was actually good. |
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jal90 said: Nidstang said: Why do you think Endless Eight is good? Well, I spent quite a lot of time in this thread dealing with this issue. But basically, I see and respect the intention of the arc, the effort put on it that for me puts it aside from being an easy troll movement, and the fact it is true to what it wants to transmit. My interpretation of it was basically: "Oh let's repeat this to make it realistic to the course of events in the show!" Though I wasn't impressed. |
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gamer2710 said: jal90 said: Simple version:tsudecimo said: Nope, but that doesn't make the anime intentions with this character a failure. I wouldn't care about people who say that Haruhi is a spoiled cunt if they weren't actually trying to deny the show's merit with that statement.So is Kirino and Louise. Their character and personality was on purpose and had a lot of relevance to the plot but that doesn't make them any less of a spoiled cunts. Anime's Intent: Make Kirino/Louise likeable. Process: Make Kirino/Louise a spoiled bitch. Result: Epic failure. Anime's Intent: Make Haruhi hated. Process: Make Haruhi a spoiled bitch. Result: Success. Hey, now that you mentioned that, i did remember that there are times where they make characters into mary-sue's for comedy purposes and give us a reason to hate them so much. It can be done right, so long its for comedy or to show how mary-sues like Haruhi are so bad. Maybe thats why it got so successful, yet feels overrated at times. |
tsudecimo said: Who said anything about the show being a failure ? Like I said I understand why they act this way be it Haruhi or Kirino and it's relevance to the plot. I am only commenting about how ''annoying'' their personalities are. But if I were to comment on the anime itself I would say it's mediocre at best. It gained all of it's popularity because of gimmicks not because the show was actually good. Sorry if I sounded like I was judging you, when I'm actually talking about general attitudes I've seen more often than anything in these forums; mainly as a response to the idea of Haruhiism I guess. |
starwarriorrobby said: Except all three have cases where their bitchiness is played straight for drama. The Familiar of Zero was particularly bad in this regard.gamer2710 said: jal90 said: Simple version:tsudecimo said: Nope, but that doesn't make the anime intentions with this character a failure. I wouldn't care about people who say that Haruhi is a spoiled cunt if they weren't actually trying to deny the show's merit with that statement.So is Kirino and Louise. Their character and personality was on purpose and had a lot of relevance to the plot but that doesn't make them any less of a spoiled cunts. Anime's Intent: Make Kirino/Louise likeable. Process: Make Kirino/Louise a spoiled bitch. Result: Epic failure. Anime's Intent: Make Haruhi hated. Process: Make Haruhi a spoiled bitch. Result: Success. Hey, now that you mentioned that, i did remember that there are times where they make characters into mary-sue's for comedy purposes and give us a reason to hate them so much. It can be done right, so long its for comedy or to show how mary-sues like Haruhi are so bad. Maybe thats why it got so successful, yet feels overrated at times. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
starwarriorrobby said: i did remember that there are times where they make characters into mary-sue's for comedy purposes and give us a reason to hate them so much. It can be done right Medaka box comes to mind. |
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jal90 said: tsudecimo said: Who said anything about the show being a failure ? Like I said I understand why they act this way be it Haruhi or Kirino and it's relevance to the plot. I am only commenting about how ''annoying'' their personalities are. But if I were to comment on the anime itself I would say it's mediocre at best. It gained all of it's popularity because of gimmicks not because the show was actually good. Sorry if I sounded like I was judging you, when I'm actually talking about general attitudes I've seen more often than anything in these forums; mainly as a response to the idea of Haruhiism I guess. Ohh, I see. None of the negative stuff bothers you that much, because you only focus on the bright sides in there, or the positives. Or maybe feeling in terms of a guilty pleasure to this anime. |
tsudecimo said: starwarriorrobby said: i did remember that there are times where they make characters into mary-sue's for comedy purposes and give us a reason to hate them so much. It can be done right Medaka box comes to mind. Aww cuss. I knew this anime's gonna be brought up soon. I freakin' knew it. Medaka Box is just about as bad and pretentious as Haruhi, but coming close. I've seen some episodes of that, and I just dropped because it screams "God-mode Mary-Sue" all over it and most of the characters are all psychos. But I'll admit, the action and animation in there are all a small guilty pleasure for me. It is Gainax after all. |
starwarriorrobby said: tsudecimo said: starwarriorrobby said: i did remember that there are times where they make characters into mary-sue's for comedy purposes and give us a reason to hate them so much. It can be done right Medaka box comes to mind. Aww cuss. I knew this anime's gonna be brought up soon. I freakin' knew it. Medaka Box is just about as bad and pretentious as Haruhi, but coming close. I've seen some episodes of that, and I just dropped because it screams "God-mode Mary-Sue" all over it and most of the characters are all psychos. But I'll admit, the action and animation in there are all a small guilty pleasure for me. It is Gainax after all. Lol? It's a satire at battle shounens. Medaka is a mary sue and overpowered and the show is fully aware of it, there is a whole arc in the manga that breaks the fourth wall and makes fun of shounen MC hax. I suggest reading the manga but okay. |
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tsudecimo said: Hmm, I have checked out some recent piece of the manga. Its looking pretty fair so far. and by shonen MC hax, which do you mean?starwarriorrobby said: tsudecimo said: starwarriorrobby said: i did remember that there are times where they make characters into mary-sue's for comedy purposes and give us a reason to hate them so much. It can be done right Medaka box comes to mind. Aww cuss. I knew this anime's gonna be brought up soon. I freakin' knew it. Medaka Box is just about as bad and pretentious as Haruhi, but coming close. I've seen some episodes of that, and I just dropped because it screams "God-mode Mary-Sue" all over it and most of the characters are all psychos. But I'll admit, the action and animation in there are all a small guilty pleasure for me. It is Gainax after all. Lol? It's a satire at battle shounens. Medaka is a mary sue and overpowered and the show is fully aware of it, there is a whole arc in the manga that breaks the fourth wall and makes fun of shounen MC hax. I suggest reading the manga but okay. |
starwarriorrobby said: tsudecimo said: Hmm, I have checked out some recent piece of the manga. Its looking pretty fair so far. and by shonen MC hax, which do you mean?starwarriorrobby said: tsudecimo said: starwarriorrobby said: i did remember that there are times where they make characters into mary-sue's for comedy purposes and give us a reason to hate them so much. It can be done right Medaka box comes to mind. Aww cuss. I knew this anime's gonna be brought up soon. I freakin' knew it. Medaka Box is just about as bad and pretentious as Haruhi, but coming close. I've seen some episodes of that, and I just dropped because it screams "God-mode Mary-Sue" all over it and most of the characters are all psychos. But I'll admit, the action and animation in there are all a small guilty pleasure for me. It is Gainax after all. Lol? It's a satire at battle shounens. Medaka is a mary sue and overpowered and the show is fully aware of it, there is a whole arc in the manga that breaks the fourth wall and makes fun of shounen MC hax. I suggest reading the manga but okay. Shounen MC are almost always over powered in one way or another. Medaka Box makes fun of that. There's even an example under Plot Armor page in TV Tropes. "The reason the Arc Villain won't start her plans yet is because Medaka is the main character, and thus guaranteed to defeat her if she is challenged." |
Paul said: starwarriorrobby said: tsudecimo said: Hmm, I have checked out some recent piece of the manga. Its looking pretty fair so far. and by shonen MC hax, which do you mean?starwarriorrobby said: tsudecimo said: starwarriorrobby said: i did remember that there are times where they make characters into mary-sue's for comedy purposes and give us a reason to hate them so much. It can be done right Medaka box comes to mind. Aww cuss. I knew this anime's gonna be brought up soon. I freakin' knew it. Medaka Box is just about as bad and pretentious as Haruhi, but coming close. I've seen some episodes of that, and I just dropped because it screams "God-mode Mary-Sue" all over it and most of the characters are all psychos. But I'll admit, the action and animation in there are all a small guilty pleasure for me. It is Gainax after all. Lol? It's a satire at battle shounens. Medaka is a mary sue and overpowered and the show is fully aware of it, there is a whole arc in the manga that breaks the fourth wall and makes fun of shounen MC hax. I suggest reading the manga but okay. Shounen MC are almost always over powered in one way or another. Medaka Box makes fun of that. There's even an example under Plot Armor page in TV Tropes. "The reason the Arc Villain won't start her plans yet is because Medaka is the main character, and thus guaranteed to defeat her if she is challenged." Hmm the only characters that I can think of thats overpowered through plot armor are Superman, Shirou (Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works), and of course, Ichigo Kurosaki (Bleach). |
tsudecimo said: What Paul said and I doubt that you will find a character like [him] anywhere else. A character that wants to lose, a good loser. So is he bad as a main character? 'Cause from what I saw before, he seems more on the lines of an anti-hero or something due to his psychotic nature. As for being the character that wants to lose, there is actually one person I can think of that's like that. His name is Ash Ketchum. |
Red_Keys said: Oh it's this thread again... well.. It's the stupid ass virgin white knight attitude. Attention from a female, whether it be negative or positive, is still attention from a female. And all attention from a female is good and glorious and enviable and beautiful and great. She smacks you in the face? You're lucky, because her glorious hand graced you with it's contact. I find this attitude disgusting and pathetic. I dropped Kore Wa Zombie Desu Ka? of the Dead because of this stupid fucking attitude that radiated from the show. Ayumu was treated worse than dog piss, and we're supposed to like the characters doing it. Fuck that. Characters get treated like complete shit, and the fanbase still has the audacity to be jealous of them (and then hate them too). I'm not sure the masochistic attitude in a lot of anime really stems from masochism itself, but more from insufficient self respect and confidence from the fanbase. I mean, can't you see how utterly offended people become once Kyoani made a show about *GHASP* attractive, non-loser-bitch-ass guys? OH THE HORROR. OTHER GUYS MORE ATTRACTIVE THAN ME. I haven't seen Kore Wa Zombie Desu Ka? of the Dead (and I really, really don't want to). But I agree with all of this. It's too bad too. A lot of the time anime with this kind of bullshit have other things that are good about it, and therefore represents wasted potential. Depending on the ratio of bullshit to quality, I may still watch it all the way through. |
| Dirty bitches, that happens because the MC doesn't slap them, he should be a true man and hit them, so they would learn to respect the men. |
¡VIVA ESPAÑA! |
| Why can't all tsunderes be cute like Kurisu from S;G. |
Jauregui said: Masochism?Why can't all tsunderes be cute like Kurisu from S;G. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
gamer2710 said: Yes masochism and the fact that those abusive, sadistic types are what almost everyone, even japan, really wants. And yeah, I agree. Kurisu is also a cool tsundere I like, and actually feel sorry for. Even after having to work with a self-absorbed sociopath like Hououin-Kyoma (Rintarou Okabe)Jauregui said: Masochism?Why can't all tsunderes be cute like Kurisu from S;G. |
starwarriorrobby said: gamer2710 said: Yes masochism and the fact that those abusive, sadistic types are what almost everyone, even japan, really wants. And yeah, I agree. Kurisu is also a cool tsundere I also like, and feel sorry for. Even after having to work with a self-absorbed sociopath like Hououin-Kyoma (Rintarou Okabe)Jauregui said: Masochism?Why can't all tsunderes be cute like Kurisu from S;G. He's not a sociopath, he's a maddo scientisto. |
Paul said: He's not a sociopath, he's a maddo scientisto. Oh right, mad scientist then. Lolz |
| I missed the Haruhi discussion. Actually Haruhi is the only abusive tsundere I like. I don't know, IMO Haruhi is more like a sociopath, she's a bitch because she doesn't know how to deal with people. She's a weirdo that has always been alone. But at the end of the tv serie you can see she's starting to develop I haven't read the rest of the novels but I bet all my internetz points that she will become less bitchy and a most friendly and honest with her feelings person. That's what I hope... |
starwarriorrobby said: But wasn't she the one who imposed on him in the beginning? She could've opted out, but come on. Okabe wasn't a loser. At least, not your typical can't-find-balls-to-confess-love loser.Kurisu is also a cool tsundere I like, and actually feel sorry for. Even after having to work with a self-absorbed sociopath like Hououin-Kyoma (Rintarou Okabe) |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
Jauregui said: I missed the Haruhi discussion. Actually Haruhi is the only abusive tsundere I like. I don't know, IMO Haruhi is more like a sociopath, she's a bitch because she doesn't know how to deal with people. She's a weirdo that has always been alone. But at the end of the tv serie you can see she's starting to develop I haven't read the rest of the novels but I bet all my internetz points that she will become less bitchy and a most friendly and honest with her feelings person. That's what I hope... Ah I guess I can understand that. But yeah, I hope so too. I would like to see how Haruhi will change for the better than how she still acts in the anime. The movie, however, at least it shows her opposite side in the alternate universe. That version of Haruhi I liked better than that original universe one. But if it's true that she's changing better in the novels and all, then I'll TRY and give her one more chance. One more chance. Since the anime didn't go all the way through, then of course the novels would go deeper than that. Just like how SAO is doing. But then again, I got bored of it as I moved one in the GGO Saga and never go back again. But i know its going further and deeper in the story now. |
| I guess some people are lonely enough to desire any attention from a girl. |
| "Reality is a story the minds tells itself. An artificial structure conjured into being by the calcium ion exchange of a million synaptic fringes" |
gamer2710 said: Hmm true.starwarriorrobby said: But wasn't she the one who imposed on him in the beginning? She could've opted out, but come on. Okabe wasn't a loser. At least, not your typical can't-find-balls-to-confess-love loser.Kurisu is also a cool tsundere I like, and actually feel sorry for. Even after having to work with a self-absorbed sociopath like Hououin-Kyoma (Rintarou Okabe) |
MantisShrimp said: Hmm true. It can happen to people that way now and then. Either that or masochism.I guess some people are lonely enough to desire any attention from a girl. Jauregui said: True. After all, Yuki, along with Raven from Teen Titans, is one of the reasons why I actually loved Kuudere and Dandere ALOT more than the other -dere archtypes. But yeah, the movie did milk the popularity out on Yuki alot. It's no wonder I keep finding manga volumes based around her lately.starwarriorrobby said: Yes, the anime needs to get deeper into the novels, becuase let's face it. If it wasn't for the movie (the 4 Vol of the novel) probably Nagato wouldn't be as popular as she is now. |
AversaOct 11, 2013 1:53 PM
starwarriorrobby said: Yes, the anime needs to get deeper into the novels, becuase let's face it. If it wasn't for the movie (the 4 Vol of the novel) probably Nagato wouldn't be as popular as she is now. |
gamer2710 said: starwarriorrobby said: But wasn't she the one who imposed on him in the beginning? She could've opted out, but come on. Okabe wasn't a loser. At least, not your typical can't-find-balls-to-confess-love loser.Kurisu is also a cool tsundere I like, and actually feel sorry for. Even after having to work with a self-absorbed sociopath like Hououin-Kyoma (Rintarou Okabe) No. She was just freaked out at his earlier attitude(almost stripping her clothes off, you know why lol) towards her. That's the reason she went a bit harsh on him. |
sali511Jun 7, 2014 1:50 AM
| Wouldn't it be interesting to switch the genders around a bit? Imagine watching a boy being your typical tsundere or yandere. With all the pros and cons that brings. This would be a typical first episode of such a show: Girl wakes up from a dream. She has been calling out some random boy's name in her sleep.. Her childhood friend who is a boy is sitting in her bed with light clothing on. After a short conversation, the boy who is a tsundere smacks the living shit out of the girl because he got embarrassed. He runs off yelling "baka" while crying. The girl, who now lies on the floor covered in blood in a funny position, says "what did I do?" OPENING STARTS! |
AnimeSweden said: Wouldn't it be interesting to switch the genders around a bit? Imagine watching a boy being your typical tsundere or yandere. With all the pros and cons that brings. This would be a typical first episode of such a show: Girl wakes up from a dream. She has been calling out some random boy's name in her sleep.. Her childhood friend who is a boy is sitting in her bed with light clothing on. After a short conversation, the boy who is a tsundere smacks the living shit out of the girl because he got embarrassed. He runs off yelling "baka" while crying. The girl, who now lies on the floor covered in blood in a funny position, says "what did I do?" OPENING STARTS! I would watch that xD |
| MAL: A community that thinks every anime is bad, but rates everything a 7/10. |
| Hentai Shioujo is nothing like the generic tsundere . |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
Aeonic said: Helder01 said: Dirty bitches, that happens because the MC doesn't slap them, he should be a true man and hit them, so they would learn to respect the men. Hei is an example of what MC should do when there lolis are acting violently. Living the dream. |
antonn said: Aeonic said: Helder01 said: Dirty bitches, that happens because the MC doesn't slap them, he should be a true man and hit them, so they would learn to respect the men. Hei is an example of what MC should do when there lolis are acting violently. Living the dream. I'd forgotten about that. Good thing it wasn't made in the US. The studio would have been burned down and its members incarcerated. |
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