Bleach Chapter 497 Discussion

SilentTruth said:
Damn, the gotei 13 is in the pinch!

Kaguya said:
On the side note I was excited when I saw Grimmjow on the cover (which is a fanart).. Got trolled...

belatkuro said:
So how come Kyoraku didn't have a hole behind his head when he was shot by that Quincy?

Ollyx2OxenFree said:

In the pinch? Oh in a pinch, noticed you liked this expression since you've used it before.

I don't know if I like how this is going. I like that people are actually getting injured and dying because it makes it more intense but this is definitely a different spin for Bleach. Maybe Kubo wasn't liking the bad ratings and decided that he should start killing off his characters and injuring them? Kira is supposedly dead and Kyoraku lost his eye and bankai. His bankai is one eyed really like to see (punny right?) I can personally see them sparing the soul society and then they challenge them again later or something (hopefully not another power up such with -kai at the end). Ichigo probably doesn't lose his bankai for a certain reason. Can't wait to find out why.

xuezhi said:
How the hell did Kyoraku get owned for that brief fight so far like that? One of the strongest taicho, defeated the 1st Espada w/o bankai, gets hurt like that against a Quincy?? I call BS. Renji with another outburst, seriously don't like that guy, too similar to Ichigo. Other than that another zzzzz chapter.

-Shuda- said:


Same here! Seriously, this made my day until I found out it wasn't cannon...

--

Any way, this is going as expected. I'm still pretty interested to see how they plan on handling the situation from here though. That, and what Kenpachi, Yama-Ji and Shinji (who's Shikai is freaking overpowered) are about to do.

Maddo_scientisto said:
Oh please stop with that Kenpachi fanboying.
These quincy that are invading SS right now are the beings that stand the closest to Ichigo's post dangai training powerlevel and I'll dare to say that each and every one of them is at least as strong as Yama in shikai (Yama being obviously much stronger with his bankai but in a situation where he cannot use it).

Kenpachi had problem to deal against Noitora's strength, he's a tank but the fucking 5th espada's hit were hard enough for him to understand that he should not be hit by them anymore and these Quincy are in a position to hit much harder than any Espada ever did, actually probably hit even harder than what Aizen used in his last transformation stage.

These Quincy demonstrated currently unrivaled speed feat (Stark was the fastest espada and even him couldn't speedblitz Kyouraku as much as that Quincy just did).
Quincy are also Kenpachi's nemesis. They excel in keeping a distance and nuking anything far from them, Kenpachi doesn't have the speed necessary to close the gap so he would just take hit until he die.

Yama can hold on, Shinji probably can because of the ability of his shikai but not because of his physical capabilities and Ichigo is the only one in a position to destroy the invaders with raw physical capabilities.
The question is how long can they hold on? Because as long as Ichigo isn't here they are doomed to get killed.

S0l0 said:

Exaggeration much? He didn't get owned. He just got hurt. Simple the guy attacked Kyoraku avoided it and tried to attack back but the other guy released his angel mode at that second and got even faster stronger and counterattacked Kyoraku that got surprised because he didn't calculate at him going angel mode and hitting him back so fast.

Is quite annoying that most people only think of how to arrange power levels in their heads every time a fight occurs instead of seeing what is happening in the actual fight.

Maddo_scientisto said:
Oh please stop with that Kenpachi fanboying.
These quincy that are invading SS right now are the beings that stand the closest to Ichigo's post dangai training powerlevel and I'll dare to say that each and every one of them is at least as strong as Yama in shikai (Yama being obviously much stronger with his bankai but in a situation where he cannot use it).

Han-yuu said:

I don't have much hopes from Kenpachi either but i just want to remind you that power levels in bleach are messed up. A number 11 arrancer showed up and beat the hell out of Hitsugaya. I know he's not strongest captain but Kubo told us how strong arrancers are that a captain need to release his full power to defeat a gillian. All other vice captain got some tough battles against some lowly arrancers. Yeah. I'm not talking about Espada. What espada did to ichigo was whole different story. At first I thought, few of them can take over soul society or at-least give them some toughest time they can ever imagine but then Kubo wasted some great potential. What happened to Ulqiuerra in Hueco Mundo or how Starc and Halibel wasted in final battle almost sounds like a joke after so much hype about Vastrolords powers.

Han-yuu said:

Then Aizen alone took out all captains including vizards and lost against Ichigo? I thought captains have their pride like how kenpachi was crying when he lost tied battle with ichigo but It's so humiliating for all other captains to lost against only one guy and that invincible guy lost against Ichigo after some crazy transformations. There you go with messed up power level. (seriously all those captains who was one-shotted by Aizen should've resigned from their positions. lol). Does Aizen need to defeat all of them? Wouldn't it better if Starc, 2nd espada and Halibel take out few of them? and then Aizen make his way to final battle with Ichigo and few others. I wouldn't go to Ichigo power levels, like how strong he is compare to all other captains and that's why he take out Aizen.

Maddo_scientisto said:
Also pretty much sure that when Hitsuga said "It took our full strength to beat a couple of gillian" he meant that he had to have their limiter removed. He was at 30% of his power with the limiter if I recall properly, he never meant to said that he needed 100% of his power to beat him but rather that this 30% was not enough.

Maddo_scientisto said:
Aizen was very close to the limit of Shinigami, hence his interest over crossing the border between Hollow and Shinigami.
Aizen always was much stronger than every single captain except Yama which is the only shinigami alive to have reached this said limit (Or at least being closer to it than Aizen).

Maddo_scientisto said:
Ichigo powers

Maddo_scientisto said:
These quincy that are invading SS right now are the beings that stand the closest to Ichigo's post dangai training powerlevel and I'll dare to say that each and every one of them is at least as strong as Yama in shikai (Yama being obviously much stronger with his bankai but in a situation where he cannot use it).

Maddo_scientisto said:
Aizen also had everyone under his complete hypnosys.

Han-yuu said:
What happened to his shikai and bankai in last fight? Did ichigo, isshin, urahra, yoruichi have some special powers and hypnotysm did not worked at all, so he had to relay on completely hogyuko.. or did i missed it somewhere?

Aldo512 said:
Ichigo at least didn't see the release, so he was unaffected. I'm not sure if it was ever said when Isshin was a shinigami, but I'm assuming it was before Aizen's time, so he wouldn't be affected either. Urahara and Yoruichi don't get a pass though as far as I can tell.

Han-yuu said:

What.. he can release his shikai and bankai only once and then it's useless? I thought he can release it anywhere anytime.

I remembered Ulquiorra mentioned it in front of nnoitra. so it's not one time thing and how he was stronger than all other espadas if his zanpaktou was useless against them? just because of hogyouko?

And If it really is just one time thing than it's the most useless zanpaktou, just like it's very powerful if you see the release.

Loggoyl said:
I already forgot that Inoue can Heal Kira and Koryaku. So there's no problem there.

It's all bullshit anyway. Shinigami can fight without bankai. They have Kido and Hado, remember? And Of course Shikai! Why go bankai directly?!

But the plot always wins.

Also, we have the vizored, and quicies hopefully cannot steal hollow masks!

Han-yuu said:

First of all Kyouraku said, he’s strong and i heard others saying he’s a little genius guy or something but anway, so 30% was not enough. Let’s say he used 50% power to beat a gillian (though i think it was more than that because he was practically useless on 30% level) So what can he possibly do against an espada? And a number 3 espada in all of them? Not he did survive but never took any good demage at all. I guess that gillian was lot better than what Halibal did in her given time.

Han-yuu said:


1-Did i said, Aizen was weak? He was strong that’s why he easily fooled everyone and escaped so easily at the end of soul society arc.

2-What i meant was that Kubo humiliated all other captains. It was not necessary for Aizen to beat all of them. I mean what the hell are they doing for thousands of years ? all that practice, hard-work, status, shikai, bankai, riatsu level. That everything become useless.

3-Everyone know Aizen is strong but If There was some importance for other characters, like top 4 espada. If they lived up to their hype, you can get at-least 6 captains on the floor. After they’re done with their role, it’s okay for strac and second espada to die (at-least they were usefull) and then Aizen strike Halibel from behind for whatever reason.

4-Then you can see Aizen vs Remaining captains, ichigo, isshin, urhara, yoruichi etc. That would’ve been a lot better. In overall, Espada did nothing to story. Yeah absolutely nothing. They just appeared as so much over-hyped powerful enemies. 7 of them lost in hueco mundo. 3 of them lost in fake karakura without doing anything significant to their opponent except few injuries which are not even to count when you have orihime and unohana.

Han-yuu said:


I didn’t even said anything about ichigo powers. You missed the whole point of my post. Let’s say Ichigo is THAT strong then what? All other characters are useless..?

Han-yuu said:

1-Isn’t that based on merely conjectures? Did kubo mentioned anywhere for them to be that strong? I guess NOT.

2-Those guys are sealing or stealing bankai’s can be merely a trick and in matter of time, someone will figure it out and then what? Everything will get back their bankai’s and kaboom.. And once again situation will be just like espadas.

3-What real power i will accept is, if those bankais are gone forever OR even if they’re sealed temporarily. Quincies will get full benefit by killing at-least few important characters (for real this time), taking over soul society and show them, who's the boss here. Otherwise this whole dangai level or yama shikai power level is useless, If they just play around like “Hey look we’re strong. we killed thousands in few seconds” and before you knew they’re all dead like espadas.

Han-yuu said:

What happened to his shikai and bankai in last fight? Did ichigo, isshin, urahra, yoruichi have some special powers and hypnotysm did not worked at all, so he had to relay on completely hogyuko.. or did i missed it somewhere?

Maddo_scientisto said:
The only reason why he got hurt badly against the Gillian is because of his limiter. If he had been at full power since the start then the Gillian would have gotten his ass handed to him.
Also there's to note that Hitsugaya powered up since the first time he met the Gillian but it's like you're making Hitsugaya at that time as strong as FKT Hitsugaya.

You seem to really underestimate the limiter. To give you an exemple, if you're power is limited by half then imagine yourself doing sports or fighting while holding something proportional to half of your weight. You could have been the best in the world without that limiter but once you have it a total noob might do a number on you. You aren't at twice of your ability, you are much lower than that.

Last time I checked, they were fighting Halibel 2v1 or 3v1 and they seemed to have big trouble while Halibel seemed to play arround.

Problem is that you people are too much fixated on evaluating character power level with assumed and fictive numbers and so the moment it do not match up you blame the manga for not making sense.

Maddo_scientisto said:
No nothing to do with his strength, he just well planned his things.

Maddo_scientisto said:
Most captain were doing paperwork and supervising those under them. They never felt any strong threat and thus were content with their power. It was necessary for Aizen to beat all them up otherwhise this would not have made sense.

Maddo_scientisto said:
You tell me that Aizen would let captains get in his way just because he's a M and he like that? Aizen had the capacity to do it so there's nothing weird in him doing it.

Maddo_scientisto said:
Espada lived up to the hype kubo made of them but you fan were talking between each other and ended up expecting the world out of them.

Halibel/espada 2/Stark were outnumbered and even though they could have mopped the floor with anyone they were fighting against in 1v1 that wasn't the case.
When fighting multiple opponents you do not have to be stronger than the total of them, you have to be much stronger than that.
You can't say that if Halibbel power is 5000 and that the two people she was fighting against power were 2000 each she would be able to beat them, that would actually be retarded if a fight worked that easely.

The first time Aizen met the espada he told them to not trust him. The fight were dragging out and he expected Ichigo to come soon so he ended it on his own because of his own agenda.
The espada did nothing? They created a threat that forced captains to improve and train, they instaured a long-forgotten concept of fear on the seniority of an "allpowerfull nation". They moved characted, gave relief to the story and served multiple time in character developement. But of course, since they didn't kill a shinigami they did nothing.

Maddo_scientisto said:
Yes because a character is useless if he's not strong, life must be pretty boring from your perspective

Maddo_scientisto said:
Sure is..

Just to begin with..........

Maddo_scientisto said:
Even with bankai the captains are pretty much screwed if they fight in SS which lead me to believe that the final fights will take place somewhere they do not have an infinite amount of energy to nuke with.

Maddo_scientisto said:
People are going under the assumption that most captain that did not use bankai yet was because they 'were going easy on their opponent' but that's likely not the case.
Giving Yama's Shikai, his bankai just might be something that nuke everything in a radius of 100km, is it 'going easy on your opponent' if you do not use it in a teamfight? No that's just because his bankai isn't fit to the situation.
Giving Kyouraku's shikai, his bankai just might be a much more dangerous gamble situation, is it 'going easy on your opponent' when you do not want to harm yourself and your opponent in a fight you cannot afford to lose? No, that's just because his bankai isn't fit to the situation.
Bankai aren't all as cool and pratical as Byakuya's, get over it.

Maddo_scientisto said:
You just want to see a death to see a death, you don't care much about how it would affect the story and you just want to see someone die because that's what cool shounen do nowaday. I cannot agree with that.

Maddo_scientisto said:
Ichigo, Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi weren't in SS when Aizen pulled Kyouka Suigetsu. This ability has been hinted over and over to be something that take times and hence that you cannot use in the middle of a fight, especially if your opponent expect it and can counter it just by looking somewhere else.

Maddo_scientisto said:
While I agree that it's ridiculous that nobody important died in bleach yet, it's not because of a screwed power level but rather because of many deus ex machina that Kubo love to pull.
I'm not saying that Bleach have only good points, I also think that the espada could have done more but going at the extent of saying they did nothing is wrong.