Overrated?
| uhm, there is only 1 episode out from the 2nd part.. I don't mind such a thread, but at least wait until the series has finished airing.. edit: binOsbi said: I meant it in its entirety, as in Fate/Zero 1 and 2. I see. Sorry, I misunderstood. |
Vanessa-Apr 10, 2012 4:58 AM
| It is overrated, but it's still a fantastic show. FUN said: uhm, there is only 1 episode out from the 2nd part.. I don't mind such a thread, but at least wait until the series has finished airing.. First and second parts are practically the same thing, hell the first episode is even shown as episode 14. I think 14 episodes is enough to judge. |
JoeLTApr 10, 2012 12:35 AM
| I don't think it is overrated... But bear in mind that this show has everything I love in it... Decent story, nice characters, nicely developed too, it's heavy in dialogue, which for someone like me, who loves books, reading and good story makes it amazing. Also there is action (I don't love it that much, but it ain't bad)... I also love slow paced shows, and this one just gives time for everything to develop. Ah I remember watching 4 hours long movie, and enjoying it until the end while people around me fell asleep... So 10/10 for me... This is however subjective (highly), but objectively there are better anime out there (for me those are Clannad, ef....things with story) So it all depends on viewer, if so many people like it, it's jot overrated... |
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| Not every show that gets praised/a huge fan bandwagon are bad really, just had impression that some (maybe not you) instantly put the two together nowadays due to the most recent years. I don't consider this as one of my favorite shows, but it is still good and entertaining/worth a great watch. Compared to how F/SN doesn't manage (imo) to do justice for the F/SN VN (mixing the 3 routes might have seemed like the only solution, but it pretty much cut out a lot), the F/Z anime is much better as a rendition of its novel, which also explains why so many are pleased. Atm we have zetman which doesn't stay true to the manga and most people are pissed; a rendition that aims to stay identical will always be more appreciated. People throwing the word masterpiece in a "it's obvious this is a masterpiece" sort of way are just imposing their opinion and tastes, but every decent show gets these so just sigh and move on. For a fantasy/action show, I think it's good enough to not be overrated. I generally consider moe shows being called masterpieces (because for me a masterpiece should transcend genres) as overrated, since even if I can love one, it just doesn't have value such as CB or other favorites, but again: I'm more into seinen, and I accept that others do view moe as their favorite anime genre. For them, and with their anime-viewed experiences, a masterpiece will differ. Some do spontaneously use that word too often though, but in 5 years they might not as much. So yeah, opinions differ, deal with it, and you're free to have your own (just as akutasame94 said). And why is this still fate zero season 2 and not merged with the first season? Most sub groups already labeled it as ep 14. So seeing the poll, I recommend just ignoring rankings, otherwise you should cry about more abhorrent past cases. This will probably get a 8 or 9 overall on my side, which is a very good score: what I've disliked since the first season are only small things. The anime does aim to have this grandiose/epic air to it, but that doesn't make it overrated imo. Nor do the small things I disliked. Truly overrated is when it's shit yet people call it the best of year etcetc. But yeah, subjectivity ftw. |
HakoriaApr 10, 2012 2:10 AM
「Godspeed You! Black Emperor」 |
Hakoria said: Not every show that gets praised/a huge fan bandwagon are bad really, just had impression that some (maybe not you) instantly put the two together nowadays due to the most recent years. I don't consider this as one of my favorite shows, but it is still good and entertaining/worth a great watch. Compared to how F/SN doesn't manage (imo) to do justice for the F/SN VN (mixing the 3 routes might have seemed like the only solution, but it pretty much cut out a lot), the F/Z anime is much better as a rendition of its novel, which also explains why so many are pleased. Atm we have zetman which doesn't stay true to the manga and most people are pissed; a rendition that aims to stay identical will always be more appreciated. People throwing the word masterpiece in a "it's obvious this is a masterpiece" sort of way are just imposing their opinion and tastes, but every decent show gets these so just sigh and move on. For a fantasy/action show, I think it's good enough to not be overrated. I generally consider moe shows being called masterpieces (because for me a masterpiece should transcend genres) as overrated, since even if I can love one, it just doesn't have value such as CB or other favorites 1: So yeah, opinions differ, deal with it, and you're free to have your own (just as akutasame94 said). And why is this still fate zero season 2 and not merged with the first season? Most sub groups already labelled it as ep 14. I recommend just ignoring rankings, otherwise you should cry about more abhorrent past cases. This will probably get a 8 or 9 overall on my side, which is a very good score 1: First... Thanks for agreeing... Second, I too wonder why is this labeled as season 2. Everywhere I look I see episode 14, and it is straight continuation of previous thirteen episodes... |
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akutasame94 said: Strangely enough even though ufotable resumed the episode numbers at episode 14 they still call it Fate Zero Second Season and advertised it as such in the trailers, perhaps because it will be sold in it's own separate Boxset. But yeah, there's no recap or anything separating the two seasons, it literally transitions straight from episode 13's end to episode 14's start.Second, I too wonder why is this labeled as season 2. Everywhere I look I see episode 14, and it is straight continuation of previous thirteen episodes... |
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| I think a shows doing something right when it gets a "is this series overrated?" thread. Otherwise, I'll wait until the show actually finishes before I make any claims about it being overrated or not. As of now, though, I don't think it is. Edit: I do prefer the Fate/stay night VN, though. I think the characters were more memorable overall and I prefer the battle scenes as there was usually a lot of emotional weight behind them. Then again, whenever I re-watch the entirety of Fate/zero all the way through, I'll see if I still think this. |
Ston3_FreeN7Apr 10, 2012 3:13 AM
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Yes it is overrated. Type-Moon fans rating 10 on only the first episode. Oh boy. |
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| Yeah, I agree that it's ridiculous even think of rating something when it just started. But, let's not forget that some people could be considering it as an extension of the first half, which it really is, instead of a sequel. Not to mention that not just Type-Moon fans, but Urobuchi fans may be rating the series prematurely. Well, we'll see what people think of it when it finishes I suppose. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| I don’t think so. Only the first episode of Season 2, which is really just the second half of the series, has aired but I’ve decided to go ahead and give it a 9. This is largely because I don’t see my score changing within the next 11 episodes. I never hand out 10s and I’ve already read the original novel, which I also scored as 9, so I already know that the plot is just gradually going to improve from here on, until it reaches its climax. Meanwhile, I’ve watched 14 episodes of the ufotable adaption, so I already know how faithful it is to the original, and overall, have a pretty good idea of how they’re going to execute every individual scene of the remaining cour. The music and animation quality is just the icing on the cake. As for where I place it on the Top Anime ranking, unless they throw out a series of mediocre episodes, similar to Rin’s Adventure, I already know that I’m definitely going to prefer the final product to Haruhi (ranked 7) and Steins;Gate (ranked 3). It would take a huge screw-up on ufotable’s part to put it below the top 10, and after 14 episodes, I just don’t see it happening. Now FMA Brotherhood, that’s an anime that I regard as being overrated. |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
| If this show continues to have quality like it had up to now, it will be #1 on my list. But I will be giving rating only after I see the whole show. |
Homolust said: Yes it is overrated. Type-Moon fans rating 10 on only the first episode. Oh boy. The reason you have so many people rating it high after the first episode is because it's not the first episode. It's the fourteenth, regardless of how it's been split up in the airing schedule or here on MAL. So people that insist on scoring shows before they're finished might as well treat the "second season" as the same show. |
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insan3soldiern said: But, let's not forget that some people could be considering it as an extension of the first half LunarMoon said: which is really just the second half of the series Let's not forget that we're on MAL. By MAL standards, the show is divided into two separate titles. You're supposed to rate each one individually, not as a whole. Rating a show before it is finished, especially at the first episode, is just a tad bit foolish in my opinion. |
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Homolust said: insan3soldiern said: But, let's not forget that some people could be considering it as an extension of the first half LunarMoon said: which is really just the second half of the series Let's not forget that we're on MAL. By MAL standards, the show is divided into two separate titles. You're supposed to rate each one individually, not as a whole. Rating a show before it is finished, especially at the first episode, is just a tad bit foolish in my opinion. MAL's decision to split the series into two pages was nonsensical from the very beginning, and the vast majority of the people in the thread on this topic, believed so as well. For all intents and purposes, its the same series. It begins exactly where the last episode left off, and there isn't even a timeskip or recap to indicate a separation. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=351163 |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
| It's MAL. Things like this can't be helped. |
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| Its pretty interesting, but it is kinda overrated and I don't think its a masterpiece cause it was boring in a way especially the first episode being an hour long. 8/10 for the first half and for this half it depends probably 7/8/9 depending on how the rest goes. |
"What has two arms, two legs, and is alive? Not your favorite character lol! xD" |
Homolust said: Let's not forget that we're on MAL. By MAL standards, the show is divided into two separate titles. You're supposed to rate each one individually, not as a whole. This isn't some ironclad rule everyone needs to follow. In fact, in some cases (like this one), it simply isn't even fair to the show to consider them two separate entities. Am I 'supposed' to rate the second season of Fate/Zero assuming that the viewer hasn't seen the first half of the show simply because MAL says they have different titles? If so, then it automatically deserves a pretty shitty score, because said viewer will know absolutely nothing about any of the characters or the situation they are in, so there will be no attachment or understanding of the plot whatsoever. In that sense, Fate/Zero 2nd Season by itself is an absolute failure, but it would be pretty ridiculous to actually rate it like that. |
| "My tables-meet it is I set it down That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain." |
Homolust said: It's MAL. Things like this can't be helped. Right. But we don't have an obligation to play along with this bullshit. I'm not going to score it before it's finished (I haven't even scored the first half yet) but for those people who are so inclined they're perfectly justified in treating it as a continuation of the same show. |
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Homolust said: insan3soldiern said: But, let's not forget that some people could be considering it as an extension of the first half LunarMoon said: which is really just the second half of the series Let's not forget that we're on MAL. By MAL standards, the show is divided into two separate titles. You're supposed to rate each one individually, not as a whole. Rating a show before it is finished, especially at the first episode, is just a tad bit foolish in my opinion. And what about the people that rate based on the enjoyment? I rate anime after first episode, but If my enjoyment starts lowering so does my rating and vice versa... So far it is 10, but if it becomes boring I will lower that... Again rating 10 for me doesn't mean it is a masterpiece. For me it means I really enjoyed it, only in some rare occasions my 10 means the show is masterpiece (Like Clannad, please without arguing, my opinion)... |
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akutasame94 said: Homolust said: insan3soldiern said: But, let's not forget that some people could be considering it as an extension of the first half LunarMoon said: which is really just the second half of the series Let's not forget that we're on MAL. By MAL standards, the show is divided into two separate titles. You're supposed to rate each one individually, not as a whole. Rating a show before it is finished, especially at the first episode, is just a tad bit foolish in my opinion. And what about the people that rate based on the enjoyment? I rate anime after first episode, but If my enjoyment starts lowering so does my rating and vice versa... So far it is 10, but if it becomes boring I will lower that... Again rating 10 for me doesn't mean it is a masterpiece. For me it means I really enjoyed it, only in some rare occasions my 10 means the show is masterpiece (Like Clannad, please without arguing, my opinion)... That's just not knowing how a scale of one to ten works. 10 is supposed to be something close to "perfection". How would you know if it's "perfection" by just one episode? Of course, you're free to rate however you please. I have a bad habit of rating objectively. |
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Homolust said: Have you ever heard of adjustable ratings? Most people who rate before the series is over tend to change the score as time goes on. If they don't it's their problem. And in almost everyone's eyes (even in ufotable's eyes) this is episode 14, so they're rating the series judging all 14 episodes. Most people who knew this was coming already made the case for the series to be put back together as one single season bu MAL decided to separate it in two anyway. That doesn't mean fans will rate both seasons indendently, they'll rate it together, as they do with any other 24-26 episode series.akutasame94 said: Homolust said: insan3soldiern said: But, let's not forget that some people could be considering it as an extension of the first half LunarMoon said: which is really just the second half of the series Let's not forget that we're on MAL. By MAL standards, the show is divided into two separate titles. You're supposed to rate each one individually, not as a whole. Rating a show before it is finished, especially at the first episode, is just a tad bit foolish in my opinion. And what about the people that rate based on the enjoyment? I rate anime after first episode, but If my enjoyment starts lowering so does my rating and vice versa... So far it is 10, but if it becomes boring I will lower that... Again rating 10 for me doesn't mean it is a masterpiece. For me it means I really enjoyed it, only in some rare occasions my 10 means the show is masterpiece (Like Clannad, please without arguing, my opinion)... That's just not knowing how a scale of one to ten works. 10 is supposed to be something close to "perfection". How would you know if it's "perfection" by just one episode? Of course, you're free to rate however you please. I have a bad habit of rating objectively. |
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binOsbi said: Clearly your not seeing my objective of this poll. I wanted your opinion of the show, not why I should stop "crying" about ratings and the misuse of the word masterpiece. But if you want to go on about this, fine. In your quote you included the part where I said what I personally thought of the show, thus you had my message on when I see people "crying" about ratings + , more on F/Z, my opinion of the show? 1: F/SN does take place after F/Z, and the recurring characters have more maturity/experience. I think this explains how Rin/Emiya are 'smarter' protagonists when it comes to the entire HGW concept due to Kirei; all of the F/Z characters are pretty much engaging into it for the first time. One thing though, I care to add that Emiya wasn't any smarter than Waver from my pov, both are as annoying except the first even has the "I don't want anyone to be hurt"/self-sacrifice justice crap (along with Saber, although she's more mature in F/SN than F/Z evidently), but I just hate that whenever it happens. What annoyed me the most character wise is Gilgamesh in season 1 (and already in s2), with Tohsaka's submissive attitude even if it's properly explained/understandable. Waver is annoying, Rider who has an impressive NP has an annoying face, the Matou(?) guy is half-half. At the same time, I was really pleased with this series' Caster and Berserker for example. So, to repeat my first post conclusion, I do enjoy this show, and it doesn't seem overrated either. Hope I was clearer here. Anyway, I also only rate when I've finished something in general (except with manga or for those years-long series, I don't want to wait for a few more years to finally rate one piece), just seems better imo. |
HakoriaApr 10, 2012 4:37 AM
「Godspeed You! Black Emperor」 |
| For me is not overrated. It's a masterpiece show and the best of the last years. Overrated is LoGH =P And most of animes in top 10 ~ 50 have the SAME TOPIC. |
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ChrnoTodd said: Overrated is LoGH =P 1/10, made me reply |
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| I do feel it is somewhat overrated but... This is MAL, so for a many people, ratings start at "5" for some reason (I have actually seen plenty of people who rate nothing below "8"). Since this show is so much superior to the garbage that was F/sn, if you gave the previous "average", this could be certainly considered "masterpiece". |
| Whenever you correct someone's grammar just remember that nobody likes you. |
| Pretty much anything on the first page of MAL ratings is considered overrated. So no this is not overrated. As you can see majority of the people in this poll think it's not overrated. And just like many others said this is episode 14, so we're obviously rating with the first half in mind. And overrated and underrated is all peoples opinion. I think Tengen Toppa is overrated but many others don't. So who decides when something is overrated? |
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| You can't rate objectively, there'll always be a slice of subjectivity in anything you deem to be objective while rating anime. People (like me) who rates things lower is not rating "objectively", but just rating lower to separate the best from the worst. Those who think that rating low = rating objectively, explain your reasoning. Wouldn't even work anyway because, as I said, you can't rate something objectively without being (even if it's a little) subjective. |
| Hmmm overrated is very subjective. I personally agree with most of Mal's ratings while others would say they are shit.. *shrugs* My opinion is that Fate/Zero is one of the best animes in a long time and it deserves its score. There's a lot of good shows thiis Spring, but Fate tops them all for me. |
Llama765 said: Hmmm overrated is very subjective. I personally agree with most of Mal's ratings while others would say they are shit.. *shrugs* My opinion is that Fate/Zero is one of the best animes in a long time and it deserves its score. There's a lot of good shows thiis Spring, but Fate tops them all for me. I don't see why anyone would think Mal's rating are shit. It's just like any other data base out there. It's better to have the ratings from many then just one individual. From my experience Mal's ratings are pretty faithful. I'm yet to watch a highly rated show on this site that didn't please me. |
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deadleeserious said: Junjou Romantica is 38 places higher than Rose of Versailles. MAL Ratings are about as relevant as flared trousers. +1. |
binOsbi said: And it took years upon years for that painting to attain enough importance to be labeled a Masterpiece in an objective sense. You seriously want us to wait a decade or two so we can THEN give a series a 10?Solkiskey said: You can't rate objectively, there'll always be a slice of subjectivity in anything you deem to be objective while rating anime. People (like me) who rates things lower is not rating "objectively", but just rating lower to separate the best from the worst. Those who think that rating low = rating objectively, explain your reasoning. Wouldn't even work anyway because, as I said, you can't rate something objectively without being (even if it's a little) subjective. Well, think of it this way. The Mona Lisa is praised well because of its beauty, historical value, and the mystery that entwines with the painting, but flat out, its a normal painting of a decent looking women. You can find many paintings out there, that are way better than it, but in the end, the Mona Lisa is praised a lot more because of its symbolism. And it's quite cute how you edited up your opening posts a few times after people started pointing out holes in your argument. |
Leon-GunApr 10, 2012 4:43 PM
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| Haven't started the second season myself, but the first episode review on my blog got tons of hits already. |
binOsbi said: Leon-Gun said: binOsbi said: And it took years upon years for that painting to attain enough importance to be labeled a Masterpiece in an objective sense. You seriously want us to wait a decade or two so we can THEN give a series a 10?Solkiskey said: You can't rate objectively, there'll always be a slice of subjectivity in anything you deem to be objective while rating anime. People (like me) who rates things lower is not rating "objectively", but just rating lower to separate the best from the worst. Those who think that rating low = rating objectively, explain your reasoning. Wouldn't even work anyway because, as I said, you can't rate something objectively without being (even if it's a little) subjective. Well, think of it this way. The Mona Lisa is praised well because of its beauty, historical value, and the mystery that entwines with the painting, but flat out, its a normal painting of a decent looking women. You can find many paintings out there, that are way better than it, but in the end, the Mona Lisa is praised a lot more because of its symbolism. And it's quite cute how you edited up your opening posts a few times after people started pointing out holes in your argument. Please, I asked you to be respectful but since you are so ignorant i will proceed. First off, this wasn't an argument. I simply asked for the viewers opinions. I edited it, because a few people were unsure of which season i was referring too. I edited once more because I felt people didn't know how objectively i rate anime. So please, ask me, what are these holes you are talking about in this so called argument. Lastly, I used the Mona Lisa as a metaphor, which you clearly didn't understand. The metaphor meant that the painting was good because of its symbolism not because of its appearance. It took more than a decade to analyze the Mona Lisa, because of the lack poetic minds to interpret the painting. It took even longer because of the lack of science to discover that the painting could be a picture of Da Vinci as a female. Oh and by the way, nice edit you made in your recent post. I'm unable to get the relation between your Mona Lisa "metaphor" and Fate/Zero. Probably because there's, in fact, none. This and comparing the Mona Lisa to Fate/Zero is a little far-fetched. |
| The only time you should rate something 10/10 is out of pure fanboying since nothing is perfect. |
Day2Dream said: The only time you should rate something 10/10 is out of pure fanboying since nothing is perfect. Are you being sarcastic? Because there is something fundamentally wrong with that philosophy, regardless of whether or not anything can be considered "perfect." |
Hakuromatsu said: Day2Dream said: The only time you should rate something 10/10 is out of pure fanboying since nothing is perfect. Are you being sarcastic? Because there is something fundamentally wrong with that philosophy, regardless of whether or not anything can be considered "perfect." Yes it was sarcasm... EDIT: Oh just realized I went past 1k posts. :O |
Day2Dream said: Yes it was sarcasm... Just making sure, sorry for the trouble ^_^ |
binOsbi said: Solkiskey said: binOsbi said: Leon-Gun said: binOsbi said: And it took years upon years for that painting to attain enough importance to be labeled a Masterpiece in an objective sense. You seriously want us to wait a decade or two so we can THEN give a series a 10?Solkiskey said: You can't rate objectively, there'll always be a slice of subjectivity in anything you deem to be objective while rating anime. People (like me) who rates things lower is not rating "objectively", but just rating lower to separate the best from the worst. Those who think that rating low = rating objectively, explain your reasoning. Wouldn't even work anyway because, as I said, you can't rate something objectively without being (even if it's a little) subjective. Well, think of it this way. The Mona Lisa is praised well because of its beauty, historical value, and the mystery that entwines with the painting, but flat out, its a normal painting of a decent looking women. You can find many paintings out there, that are way better than it, but in the end, the Mona Lisa is praised a lot more because of its symbolism. And it's quite cute how you edited up your opening posts a few times after people started pointing out holes in your argument. Please, I asked you to be respectful but since you are so ignorant i will proceed. First off, this wasn't an argument. I simply asked for the viewers opinions. I edited it, because a few people were unsure of which season i was referring too. I edited once more because I felt people didn't know how objectively i rate anime. So please, ask me, what are these holes you are talking about in this so called argument. Lastly, I used the Mona Lisa as a metaphor, which you clearly didn't understand. The metaphor meant that the painting was good because of its symbolism not because of its appearance. It took more than a decade to analyze the Mona Lisa, because of the lack poetic minds to interpret the painting. It took even longer because of the lack of science to discover that the painting could be a picture of Da Vinci as a female. Oh and by the way, nice edit you made in your recent post. I'm unable to get the relation between your Mona Lisa "metaphor" and Fate/Zero. Probably because there's, in fact, none. This and comparing the Mona Lisa to Fate/Zero is a little far-fetched. The Mona Lisa is the opposite of Fate/Zero, for Fate/Zero has no symbolism, unlike the painting. If you read previously, I said that, "its a normal painting of a decent looking women," and that, "You can find many paintings out there, that are way better than it.". If you still don't understand: Mona Lisa = A fantastic anime with originality, character developments and great symbolism of some sort. A beautiful painting with not inner meaning = An anime that looks good, sounds good, but doesn't have any sort of meaning to it. And if you still don't see my point: Fate/Zero is like candy. It looks good, tastes good, but is it good for you? I think you're mixing up objectivity and subjectivity, honestly. The way you rate makes it seem objective, but honestly it's all subjective. Some people might find the story unoriginal, some people might find it original. I don't mind you thinking Fate/Zero is overrated, but I sure as hell mind that you claim you rate objectively when you're not really doing that. As I said a few posts ago, I believe it is impossible to rate an anime objectively unless you're a machine. There'll always be emotion (to some degree) involved when you're analysing and rating something like anime, games, TV shows, movies, etc. Shows you dislike, you'll be much more nitpicky and much less forgiving when mistakes are made. Shows you like, well, you'll leave the nitpick aside and will be much more forgiving. Well, of course, this doesn't apply to Mars of Destruction or some shit like that Pretend you didn't read that. lol |
Solkiskey said: As I said a few posts ago, I believe it is impossible to rate an anime objectively unless you're a machine. There'll always be emotion (to some degree) involved when you're analysing and rating something like anime, games, TV shows, movies, etc. Shows you dislike, you'll be much more nitpicky and much less forgiving when mistakes are made. Shows you like, well, you'll leave the nitpick aside and will be much more forgiving. Even if you’re a machine, you can’t rate objectively, because there’s no objective standard for rating anime. It’s not like science or math, where there’s one right answer. D M said: Objective truths are capable of proof: For instance, I look a bowling ball and a baseball and say, the bowling ball is larger and heavier than the baseball. I prove the statement by measuring the two and weighing them. Done - objective truth. Subjective observations are those that reflect an accurate statement of a persons state of mind but cannot be proven by some objective method. So, if I say the old masters made better art than the impressionists, that is subjective as there is no way to measure the statement. It is my opinion. Or, I might say apples taste better than brussel sprouts. (Which I would not as I like them both.) Well, again that is an opinion, mine against yours. And no matter how many agree, it is still not an objective fact. |
LunarMoonApr 10, 2012 9:54 PM
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
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