Do you find the Antagonists Compelling?

Nov 19, 2:06 PM

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Jan 2021

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I think the villains are absolutely fantastic and very compelling. Could make an entire paragraph for almost all of them, but I haven't any motivation to do so 😅. The archbishops or the witch cult are my second favourite villain group in Animanga.

Also isn't it the same situation with all these newly introduced Archbishops currently as with Betelgeuse in season 1? He also got a lot a backstory and characterization in the second season, so we just have to wait and see.

I think Capella is a very interesting case and her backstory could be tragic. I absolutely don't agree why they aren't interesting. It's quite the opposite.

AshTheChampNov 19, 2:09 PM

Nov 19, 2:08 PM

#3

Oni_Zokuchou

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Jan 2017

212

AshTheChamp said:
I think the villains are absolutely fantastic and very compelling. Could make an entire paragraph for almost all of them, but I haven't any motivation to do so 😅. The archbishops or the witch cult are my second favourite villain group in Animanga.

Also isn't it the same situation currently as with Betelgeuse in season 1? He also got a lot a backstory and characterization in the second season, so we just have to wait and see.

I think Capella is a very interesting case and her backstory could be devastating.

really? that's very surprising. I can't stand most of them so far. do they get drastically better or something?

Nov 19, 2:12 PM

#4

AshTheChamp

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Jan 2021

291

Oni_Zokuchou said:

AshTheChamp said:
I think the villains are absolutely fantastic and very compelling. Could make an entire paragraph for almost all of them, but I haven't any motivation to do so 😅. The archbishops or the witch cult are my second favourite villain group in Animanga.

Also isn't it the same situation currently as with Betelgeuse in season 1? He also got a lot a backstory and characterization in the second season, so we just have to wait and see.

I think Capella is a very interesting case and her backstory could be devastating.

really? that's very surprising. I can't stand most of them so far. do they get drastically better or something?

I'm not a novel reader, but I definitely see the potential for Capella and Sirius, maybe Gluttony too.

It's quite narrow minded to just reduce them to a bunch of psychopaths, cause they absolutely aren't only that. There is much more to them.

Especially the way they contradict their respective witch factors and sins.

Nov 19, 2:18 PM

#5

Oni_Zokuchou

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Jan 2017

212

AshTheChamp said:

Oni_Zokuchou said:

really? that's very surprising. I can't stand most of them so far. do they get drastically better or something?

I'm not a novel reader, but I definitely see the potential for Capella and Sirius, maybe Gluttony too.

It's quite narrow minded to just reduce them to a bunch of psychopaths, cause they absolutely aren't only that. There is much more to them.

Especially the way they contradict their respective witch factors and sins.

I'm not reducing them bro, that's all they are so far. And being the opposite of a sin is still just as one-note as just representing the sin itself.

Like, oh my god, the murderous wrathful psychopath woman is obsessed with love. I've never seen that before. They should make a subcategory out of this, it's so unique! Idk man. Isn't landing for me.

Nov 19, 2:20 PM

#6

mohamedo_abuduru

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Jun 2021

357

Re:zero takes a very extremist approach with the sin archbishops, they're practically ideas rather than realistic depictions of a human. Their worldviews are utterly distorted beyond repair, to the point where it becomes complete insanity. They're also meant to show parallels with subaru's character and the flaws of certain ways of thinking. Regulus for example talks about how he wants to be treated fairly and have his rights respected, because all people deserve to have their rights respected, but he's extraordinarily hypocritical in that he just needs one little reason, one excuse that you violated his rights somehow, to blow you off the face of the earth. If you question him as to whether he has the right to do that, he'll probably just kill you too. There's a lot of nuance and irony in their characters that the anime can't really make clear because of time constraints, and some characters will make more sense in the future. I don't want to spoil anything. I'm both invested in their characters, but also believe their main purpose is simply in the comparisons that can be drawn with them and subaru.

Nov 19, 2:21 PM

#7

Oni_Zokuchou

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Jan 2017

212

AshTheChamp said:
I think the villains are absolutely fantastic and very compelling. Could make an entire paragraph for almost all of them, but I haven't any motivation to do so 😅. The archbishops or the witch cult are my second favourite villain group in Animanga.

Also isn't it the same situation with all these newly introduced Archbishops currently as with Betelgeuse in season 1? He also got a lot a backstory and characterization in the second season, so we just have to wait and see.

I think Capella is a very interesting case and her backstory could be tragic. I absolutely don't agree why they aren't interesting. It's quite the opposite.

I really hope I don't have to wait an entire season for these guys to be fleshed out. ReZero was fresh and new and I could overlook standard faire deranged psychopath in Season 1. I'm gonna hold season 3 to a higher standard since this isn't the first go around.

Nov 19, 2:25 PM

#8

Oni_Zokuchou

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Jan 2017

212

mohamedo_abuduru said:
Re:zero takes a very extremist approach with the sin archbishops, they're practically ideas rather than realistic depictions of a human. Their worldviews are utterly distorted beyond repair, to the point where it becomes complete insanity. They're also meant to show parallels with subaru's character and the flaws of certain ways of thinking. Regulus for example talks about how he wants to be treated fairly and have his rights respected, because all people deserve to have their rights respected, but he's extraordinarily hypocritical in that he just needs one little reason, one excuse that you violated his rights somehow, to blow you off the face of the earth. If you question him as to whether he has the right to do that, he'll probably just kill you too. There's a lot of nuance and irony in their characters that the anime can't really make clear because of time constraints, and some characters will make more sense in the future. I don't want to spoil anything. I'm both invested in their characters, but also believe their main purpose is simply in the comparisons that can be drawn with them and subaru.

Ah, I see. Sounds to me like they just aren't my type of thing then. I think they've gone a bit too far in the contrasting subaru angle because now nothing they ever do seems like a decent challenge to his character or his mindset because they're so far off the deep end that whatever opposes them is correct by default.

That's a shame, the core concept of ReZero is so interesting and Subaru is a very compelling lead (even if Emilia isn't) so it bums me out that I won't really like the antagonists either 😓

Nov 19, 2:30 PM

#9

Cielord

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Jan 2021

1603

I guess overall yes, though I don't consider any of them to be a great antagonist.

Regulus and Sirius have an entertaining personality, while I found Cappella's speech in episode 5 to be pretty interesting. I do hold expectations for them, but for now...

Nov 19, 2:32 PM

#10

Lightsrevenge

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Nov 2020

1043

Idk about season three yet but Roswaal was a great antagonist in season two and had a decent character arc .

Nov 19, 2:39 PM

#11

mohamedo_abuduru

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Jun 2021

357

Reply to Oni_Zokuchou

mohamedo_abuduru said:
Re:zero takes a very extremist approach with the sin archbishops, they're practically ideas rather than realistic depictions of a human. Their worldviews are utterly distorted beyond repair, to the point where it becomes complete insanity. They're also meant to show parallels with subaru's character and the flaws of certain ways of thinking. Regulus for example talks about how he wants to be treated fairly and have his rights respected, because all people deserve to have their rights respected, but he's extraordinarily hypocritical in that he just needs one little reason, one excuse that you violated his rights somehow, to blow you off the face of the earth. If you question him as to whether he has the right to do that, he'll probably just kill you too. There's a lot of nuance and irony in their characters that the anime can't really make clear because of time constraints, and some characters will make more sense in the future. I don't want to spoil anything. I'm both invested in their characters, but also believe their main purpose is simply in the comparisons that can be drawn with them and subaru.

Ah, I see. Sounds to me like they just aren't my type of thing then. I think they've gone a bit too far in the contrasting subaru angle because now nothing they ever do seems like a decent challenge to his character or his mindset because they're so far off the deep end that whatever opposes them is correct by default.

That's a shame, the core concept of ReZero is so interesting and Subaru is a very compelling lead (even if Emilia isn't) so it bums me out that I won't really like the antagonists either 😓

@Oni_Zokuchou it's worth noting not all the antagonists are the sin archbishops. there's a character in arc 7 who's considered one of if not the best antagonist, and he's just some random guy unaffiliated with the witch cult. roswaal is effectively an antagonist as well, and he's not quite as unhinged as the sin archbishops. not all the archbishops are like how we're describing them either, it's a bit of a spoiler but one of them is more reserved and sane than the rest and they're my second favorite. Also, like another guy said, we thought petelgeuse was just some maniac at first, and then after season 2 his character becomes 10x better and completely recontextualizes all of what we saw of him in s1. Some of them like sirius and capella may just need more screen time and a backstory to become peak.

Nov 19, 2:42 PM

#12

Oni_Zokuchou

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Jan 2017

212

mohamedo_abuduru said:
@Oni_Zokuchou it's worth noting not all the antagonists are the sin archbishops. there's a character in arc 7 who's considered one of if not the best antagonist, and he's just some random guy unaffiliated with the witch cult. roswaal is effectively an antagonist as well, and he's not quite as unhinged as the sin archbishops. not all the archbishops are like how we're describing them either, it's a bit of a spoiler but one of them is more reserved and sane than the rest and they're my second favorite. Also, like another guy said, we thought petelgeuse was just some maniac at first, and then after season 2 his character becomes 10x better and completely recontextualizes all of what we saw of him in s1. Some of them like sirius and capella may just need more screen time and a backstory to become peak.

oh, looking forward to arc 7 then. and yeah, I suppose I was spoiled by Roswal in s2 being... way better than the low bar set by Betelgeuse.

I'll continue watching since the world is interesting, but I wish it didn't feel like such a slog with some of these characters. In truth I don't really want Sirius to get more screen time, unless it's a flashback where she isn't as grating 😅

Nov 19, 2:44 PM

#13

Oni_Zokuchou

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Jan 2017

212

Lightsrevenge said:
Idk about season three yet but Roswaal was a great antagonist in season two and had a decent character arc .

That's my main issue tbf. Roswal seemed like a slightly off but not totally insane and he was plenty compelling because of it. this new set don't hold a candle to him

Nov 19, 3:54 PM

#14

newluminous

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Jul 2016

107

I personally prefer grey antagonists so Echidna and Roswaal are still the best antagonists Re:Zero could offer to me. I like how Echidna lulled Subaru into a false sense of companionship to manipulate him into thinking "the end justifies the means" so she could satisfy her greed for knowledge. Her trials were a creative way to give many characters their moments of self-reflection and determination to embrace challenges in uncertain future while also letting Echidna (& audiences) learn about their past instead of just flashbacks.

I was mind-blown by the fact that most of the events in 2 seasons were orchestrated by Roswaal from the very first episode just to test Subaru and mould him into his mindset. It becomes so obvious when you rewatch ss1. Dude is a crazy schemer and so tunneled-visioned that he was ready to sacrifice everyone even himself so that his other self in other timelines could succeed. Frankly I haven't seen such a unique antagonist. Echidna and Roswaal were basically twisted versions of Subaru's parents.

Now as for the Archbishops, they are straight-up villains, evil for the sake of being evil. I know they were purposefully written that way for this arc so the audiences collectively hate them without a second thought and wholeheartedly root for Subaru to destroy them. But most of the Archbishops are annoying af rn I couldn't care less what they were blabbering on about, except Regulus and maybe Capella. Regulus's yappings, his narcissism, his greed for rights and parallel to ss1 Subaru are at least entertaining. And Capella posed a rather interesting topic about whether one's love for another was just driven by lust.

Pandora is seemingly gonna be the final antagonist of the whole series but there isn't much to think about her besides her alien & sociopathic personality.

newluminousNov 19, 4:00 PM

Nov 19, 4:39 PM

#15

DoobieSam

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Feb 2021

1254

They are pretty over-the-top, but i enjoy them. There is really no depth to them, just easy mustache-twirling villains to root against.

Nov 19, 4:43 PM

#16

Nafis_Syed

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Jun 2020

178

Reply to Oni_Zokuchou

AshTheChamp said:
I think the villains are absolutely fantastic and very compelling. Could make an entire paragraph for almost all of them, but I haven't any motivation to do so 😅. The archbishops or the witch cult are my second favourite villain group in Animanga.

Also isn't it the same situation currently as with Betelgeuse in season 1? He also got a lot a backstory and characterization in the second season, so we just have to wait and see.

I think Capella is a very interesting case and her backstory could be devastating.

really? that's very surprising. I can't stand most of them so far. do they get drastically better or something?

@Oni_Zokuchou A fan-favourite villain will show up soon, but who it will be is a mystery for now. Also, it won't be able to reach the anime in a while. Still, the content for a plausible Re:0 anime season will cover a morally sinister villain many in the WN/LN side of fandom consider to be Subaru's best personal antagonist/foil.

Nov 19, 5:28 PM

#17

The_Keyman-1

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Jul 2021

151

I always thought Antagonist and villian type characters are one of the weakest part of Re zero. Echidna is probably the only antagonist type character that I found interesting in the series.

Nov 19, 7:30 PM

#18

Daddi4900

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May 2021

93

Oni_Zokuchou said:
What do you think? Are you invested in the villains? Or do you just see them as obstacles with special abilities for Subaru to work around?

The villains, as presented currently, are definitely not engaging. But if Petelgeuse is anything to go off of, I think the point will be that they USED to be engaging, and were driven insane by some force. Admittedly it does make the plot a bit less interesting than when the villains have actual morals and goals, but I don't think Re:Zero as a story is very interested in a clash of ideologies.

You can more or less think of Re:Zero as a "man vs self" plot where there happens to also be a motivating force in the form of "villains" that aren't really "antagonists," per se.

Daddi4900Nov 19, 7:37 PM

Nov 19, 7:32 PM

#19

Chalc_

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Jun 2024

70

I Don't like Gluttony. But only because of his character design.

Nov 19, 7:45 PM

#20

Kitsune_089

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Jul 2017

1154

the only one i dont like so far is the gluttony brothers, rest make sense for me

Nov 19, 9:48 PM

#21

Laplace_kun

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Nov 2019

2192

These antagonists are cultists. They are intended to be annoying. Even the author admitted that his goal was to make them as scummy as possible. So, it's... working?

Also you are only in ep 3...

"All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo

Nov 19, 11:06 PM

#22

Piromysl

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Jul 2015

12282

I think they are entertaining by how over the top evil they are, but this might get overbearing eventually, so I'd prefer to have them is rather small doses.

Yesterday, 12:11 AM

#23

41413

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Nov 2020

239

I think they are one of the reasons why Re:Zero is peak.

Yesterday, 3:38 AM

#24

ryzxgum

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Apr 2022

6319

not a single compelling thing about any of them and their dialogue is as bad as their designs. i'm also waiting for them to die soon to get past this annoying experience.

Yesterday, 6:40 AM

#25

LeoDrago

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May 2021

581

You’re only on episode 3. Regulus and Capella had more screen time since then. Regulus is a pretty fleshed out character and this Arc is also meant to show you how corrupt Sin Archbishops truly are with their authorities. More so than Petelgeuse did. They are extreme and obsessed versions of the witches they worship. You’ll see as we keep going deeper into the arc

Yesterday, 3:30 PM

#26

xZabuzax

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Nov 2016

3534

While I enjoy Re:Zero I have to say, the main villains (aka: the Archbishops) aren't that great, in fact, most of them are annoying as hell, the only ones I like so far is Elsa "Bowel Hunter" and Capella (her voice acting is amazing), the rest of the villains are pretty shitty IMHO and I just can't be bothered by them, they aren't intelligent beings, they are just fucking dumb and crazy just for the hell of it, none of them have an ounce of intelligence, the way I see it, they are just whiny, dumb, annoying cry babies.

This franchise isn't that great at writing interesting villains, if you want my opinion of what an interesting villain is then go watch Arcane (S1), Silco is an amazing villain and in fact, it's the best-written villain I have ever seen in a series.

Yesterday, 11:06 PM

#27

LucenProject

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Oct 2022

403

They're incredibly powerful but their "logic" is so unrelatable when they start babbling that it's like having a conversation with a wild beast. You're just trying not to say something that triggers them to lash out and kill you. They feel just slightly above a raw force of nature in that they have intent for their actions, but beyond that they come across to me just as puzzles that need to be solved. "What combination of the skills and units available will beat this boss's unique abilities."

They might have more going for them, but it's not exactly something to invest in anywhere near as much as Subaru's growth, that of the characters that side with him, or the plot and politics. No, I don't find them compelling.

7 hours ago

#28

Anipoxa

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Jan 2023

15

There is a narrative reason for why the villains who directly try to kill Subaru have all so far been irredeemably evil, I won't get into that because it's a spoiler for future arcs, but I can assure you that this will not be the case forever.

That said, I also don't think the archbishops are at all bad as villains, they're very good, even. You're not meant to sympathize with them and question if what they're doing is wrong, that much is obvious. You're presented with the fact that they're fucked up individuals who are nevertheless driven by very human feelings, just turned up to eleven. They're not evil for the sake of being evil, they don't kill people just because they like to kill people, there is a human factor to each of their madnesses.

Take for example Regulus, there are so many layers to him that make him a compelling antagonist. On the outside, he's an entertaining little dude who says a lot of funny crap, on the inside however, he's a guy so insecure about himself that he has to constantly repeat to everyone around him that he's right, he didn't do anything wrong, it's all THEM. There are a lot of people out there who think and act like that, and this lack of confidence is present in Subaru as well, something he confronts in ep 7 by stepping up and accepting the role of a hero.

But what exactly is Regulus doing that he's so insecure about? Well, he is a critique of isekai protagonists, actually. One thing not very evident in the anime but directly stated in the novel text multiple times is that Regulus is a very average looking guy. He has a default hairstyle, his facial features are average, his height is average, his build is slim, etc. etc. And what is the main defining trait of this average guy? A single overpowered ability that allows him to succeed without doing any self-reflection whatsoever. And what does he succeed in? Getting a harem of exclusively pretty girls and serving as their "protector". Exactly like in isekai stories where girls only exist as an eyecandy for the viewer and do nothing but cheer the main character on, in Regulus's worldview, his wives exist as pretty faces behind him while he alone makes all the decisions and takes all the actions, that is his "Greed".

By challenging Regulus, Subaru challenges the role of an isekai protagonist. And how does he go into this fight? Alongside his male friend and his girlfriend, completely contradicting isekai standards and Regulus's "Greed". If you think about it even more, Regulus is also a foil for Reinhard who himself can be viewed as a foil to isekai protagonists, getting powers whenever its convenient and being defined by being someone strong and capable and nothing else. Again, very reminiscent of blank slate isekai protagonists. So this is a fight where all three of our fighters get to challenge the physical manifestation of the status quo and fight for their growth as people, this is why I find the villains in this show so compelling.

I was initially planning to bring up more archbishops but ended up writing an entire essay about Regulus, guess he's my foil as well.

5 hours ago

#29

Oni_Zokuchou

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Jan 2017

212

oh my god I'm on episode 4 now and Capella is so much worse than I expected

her voice is actual torture to listen to bruh

3 hours ago

#30

Hdjwsiisiaooaoox

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Oct 2024

38

I think they're all incredibly interesting, but it kinda relies on theories that may or may not come true, content that probably will never be animated, and content in future arcs that we aren't gonna get this season obviously. Regulus escpecially has a pretty detailed history that the anime (probably) isnt gonna cover. The others im not gonna speak on for the sake of avoiding potential spoilers, although even in the novels we still dont know everything.

overall i think its just a matter of personal opinion. since we dont have much to go on in the anime, theres not much to have an opinion on other than their personalities. And its just kinda up to you whether you enjoy watching their antics. Me being a novel reader probably makes me biased

27 minutes ago

#31

ChainxBastard

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Feb 2016

240

They are interesting when you see them in the lens of "Behind every cynic is a disappointed optimist."

They cannot believe in what they do as strongly as they do if they didn't once believe in something else before having their worldview shattered and their perceptions warped. That's what makes them so compelling to me and Petelguese is the PRIME example of this in action which in turn can be applied to all of the other Sin Archbishops.

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Do you find the Antagonists Compelling?

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